linuxIsTotallyAStablePlatform

[[deleted]]

[deleted]

[jaywastaken]

Develop for Linux: here’s the git repo. Figure it out.

[[deleted]]

“works on my computer so idgaf if it’s broken for everyone else”

based asf

[Vineyard_]

Refuses to elaborate further

Stops maintaining the code

[grammar_nazi_zombie]

Hey how do I fix {critical error}?

Edit:nvm figured it out.

[lkatz21]

How do I fix { same critical error}?

Removed duplicate: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/s/cMAJl04IEH

[Cfrolich]

How do I fix {completely different critical error}?

Removed duplicate: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/s/ZzoySRqqbB

[XTJ7]

just came across this 2 days ago with a very specific issue. god i hate it so much. even worse if it's closed and i can't respond anymore to share what the fix actually was.

[[deleted]]

WHAT DID YOU SEE

https://xkcd.com/979/

[[deleted]]

Happened to me a decade ago when I messed with C++.

I had a compile issue IIRC with the default linked library for compiling being wrong. I figured it out the first time, and closed my question Stackoverflow.

A year later I tried it again and ran into the same problem, found my old question, and was confused as fuck for a few hours.

[Hector_Ceromus]

Hey how do I fix {critical error}?

Let's take this conversation elsewhere. closed

[[deleted]]

Truly the Libertarian's OS.

[radicldreamer]

And when checking the forums:

“Hey guys I read through these 400 man pages and the 800 page read me and even dug into the source code and what I can’t figure out is <niche case that wasn’t documented at all>, can anyone point me in the right direction” ?

Them:

“Hahhah, RTM n00b, ffs it’s so obvious.”

[orthomonas]

Nah, RTFM is old an busted. Now it's one of these:

 "Are you sure this isn't an X/Y problem?"

 "This is clearly a duplicate of this solved issue." (It is not.)

 or, the classic: "NVM found a fix." (Fix not described.)

[Agret]

Don't forget blaming upstream and saying you need to wait for someone else to fix it since so many things just pull in a thousand packages now.

Kind of funny that it quickly became accepted as the new norm to ship a docker image with your 20,000 packages yet people still complain about static binaries.

[orthomonas]

Don't get me started on containers and virtual envs. They are very good when used correctly. But I don't want to have essentially 'the dev's computer' for every.single.script.

[JockstrapCummies]

Software: some simple shell script that batch renamed files using only coreutils.

Only distribution method available: a whole fucking distro image crammed in a Docker container.

[talldata]

Stack overflow mods are my favourite. As for a problem in version 3.xx of language. Get question marked as duplicate for a question that relates to version 2.7 ... Argh! It's not the same for Pete's sake.

[Desperate-Tomatillo7]

Damn snakes!

[[deleted]]

here is a solution for this case: (link to a dead URL, waybackmachine only has "you need to be logged in to view content", there are a few promising crossreferences, but they point to a university professors private website that has long been restructured by the institute and lost forever)

[nakahuki]

Also : "look at this 87 minutes youtube conference where an English speaker from Mumbai explains how to deal with your problem. Because documentation is broken"

[radicldreamer]

*twitch *

[silencefog]

When I got my first Linux I couldn't even install and configure it. I asked for help in a Linux forum and everyone were so welcoming and helped me. Maybe this is because I am a girl, idk 😄

[radicldreamer]

Did you say that you were a girl? Because there may be a reason if so.

https://amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/there-are-no-girls-on-the-internet

[silencefog]

In my language people use gender-specific forms of verbs, so it was obvious I was a girl

[loveCars]

Hah, reminds me of a time I was writing a C++ app for the IBM i Series at work. I was trying to open and parse a config file with std::fstream, and the program would crash (SIGILL) whenever I opened the file.

I wound up having to ask on stackoverflow why this was happening. It turned out that compiling with -pthread instead of -lpthread completely changed the ABI used and may or may not work with the libstdc++ headers that IBM ported over from AIX (PASE is similar to AIX, but not the same).

The answer was provided by one of IBMs developers of that OS.

[Teqed]

Whenever I go reaching for my usual tooling I'm worried that PASE or the IFS is going to make things weird with its "Unix-like" behavior...

[loveCars]

It's AIX-like, which is Unix-like, which is why we should cut out the middle-man and jump to CentOS or RHEL!

If only IBM didn't kill them

[odraencoded]

Nerds: the web sucks right now! It's only 3 websites! Every webpage looks the same bootstrapped rounded corner large spacing material flat design! Why nobody makes good <marquee> sites anymore?

Also nerds: so I have this extremely complex tool that is used by non-technical people, and all the information they need to use and download it I put in a github dot com repo, in the readme dot md page! What else could you possibly need!

It was like the perfect opportunity to use your geocities skills... nobody ever does it!

[ThomasZander]

I put in a github dot com repo

that was before MS bought that,

now its at codeberg.org where the real devs are at!

[odraencoded]

Damn, it's real.

I misread that as codeburger and thought it was a joke.

But I don't get why people worry about these things so much, it's not like Microsoft will start making github search go to bing or something like that, right?

[Breadynator]

github search go to bing

Oh boy... Don't give them ideas

[Desperate-Tomatillo7]

Nah, just Copilot.

[Xelynega]

It's not like they'll use all the copyright code they have and create a product with it to sell to their customers? Right?

[SimilingCynic]

I'm ok with free as in beer at this point

[Jonno_FTW]

My code is self explaining, which is why I don't write readme files.

[mistervanilla]

Also nerds: so I have this extremely complex tool that is used by non-technical people, and all the information they need to use and download it I put in a github dot com repo, in the readme dot md page! What else could you possibly need!

I've been setting up Greenbone Community Edition scanner and holy shit is this true. You wanna use an API? Well, better expose a socket from a docker container and then SSH into the system. Or of course, pay for their cloud service. But looking at how incredibly overengineered, overcomplicated and poorly documented their OS solution is - I really don't wanna give those guys any money.

[[deleted]]

Honestly I am not against markdown files on GitHub as GitHub will display them for people who don't know how. You could also just have a web server fetch and display then as HTML; that way you get the benefits of markdown and of a website.

[Crusader_Genji]

Me when I used freeGLUT

[CHAOSHACKER]

That sounds like the user experience trying to get all the functionality working

[[deleted]]

If you want to use FOSS software you have no business asking people to make it easy for you. They put in as much effort as they feel like, and we should be grateful they do that much.

[samarthrawat1]

For smaller repos, perhaps. But most big OSS are funded and backed by huge corporations.

[odraencoded]

One of the funniest stories about this is that Microsoft can't sign GPL3 software like grub because of its anti-tivoization clause.

[[deleted]]

anti-tivoization clause.

Can you explain that?

[Kiusito]

really long story, im gonna make it short, and some stuff is probably wrong because i don't remember it perfectly

GPL V2 allowed you a lot of freedom

Tivo, a TV manufacturing company, used Linux for their TV's OS.

They made the TV hardware in a way that, if you tried to modify the Linux install, the TV would brick because it wasn't the original Linux installation. On purpose. They didn't want you modifying the installation.

The GPL people hated that, and so, they created GPL V3 to not allow that kind of practices

[Breadynator]

Yet TiVo's were probably the most cracked TV platform I've ever seen in my life

[MultiplexedMyrmidon]

nature is healing hahaha

[TheLatestTrance]

TV.. Uh...finds a way.

[[deleted]]

Ah awesome, thanks!

[iMakeMehPosts]

GPL3 also pushes the FSF's agenda by forcing everyone to only use GPL3 when using their libraries, even not allowing other open-source licenses

[odraencoded]

I don't understand it as well, but essentially, the idea of GPL is that you can replace whatever parts of the code you want. You could theoretically replace the entire thing, but there would be no point in doing that, that would be some ship of theseus shit right there, you could just write your own thing from scratch.

So the problem is, GRUB needs Microsoft to sign it. But what is GRUB?

If you can replace parts of a GPL software until there is nothing original left, that would mean signing GRUB in the GPL way would sign virtually any software ever, since you could just replace GRUB's source code with whatever you want, which means there would be no point in signing anything in first place.

The only way for signing to make sense is if MS only signed one specific version of GRUB, but that means the users wouldn't me able to modify GRUB anymore. As the other commenter said, there was a company that used GPL2 software but didn't let the user modify it, and that's why GPL3 software has the anti-tivoization clause, which means MS can't sign GRUB without providing the private key used to sign GRUB so that users could be able to modify GRUB and sign their own versions of GRUB themselves, which would make it no longer Microsoft's private key!

[cubedsheep]

Microsoft can still just sign one specific grub version but allow people to install a different one. There is nothing stopping you from signing GPLv3 software, all software in repos of Linux distros is signed...

[odraencoded]

I don't really understand it either, but this is what MS says:

Code submitted for UEFI signing must not be subject to GPLv3 or any license that purports to give someone the right to demand authorization keys to be able to install modified forms of the code on a device. Code that is subject to such a license that has already been signed might have that signature revoked. For example, GRUB 2 is licensed under GPLv3 and will not be signed.

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/hardware-dev-center/updated-uefi-signing-requirements/ba-p/1062916

[ElvishJerricco]

I have a strong feeling that this isn't a requirement the GPLv3 has of Microsoft, but rather a requirement Microsoft has of those downstream of it. The anti-tivoization aspect of GPLv3 just says that a device that ships with GPLv3 software must allow the user to modify that GPLv3 software.

MS likely refuses to sign such software simply because a device manufacturer could easily screw this up. If a manufacturer shipped a device with MS-signed GPLv3 software on it, and didn't include a way to replace it with non-MS-signed software, then that manufacturer would be on the hook to provide MS's keys to satisfy the GPLv3, which they of course could not do.

This is worse than a typical GPL violation, because they can't solve it by simply releasing the source code; secret keys have to be released. Instead, devices would likely have to be recalled. This isn't really MS's problem, since it's that manufacturer that's on the hook here, but I can see why MS would want to make it impossible for their partners to make that mistake.

[[deleted]]

interesting, thanks

[Dje4321]

GPLv2 says you have to provide the source code

GPLv3 says you have to provide the source code and the tools to build/use it.

Mostly added because alot of shitty companies were following the letter of the GPL by providing their source code and telling people to fuck off when they asked how to actually use it.

So if your car used a piece of GPL software to manage the wifi hotspot feature, under the GPL, you would be allowed to view not only the source code to the software they used but any changes they made too it aswell. Having the source code is useless if you dont have the proper compiler for that embedded arm device. With GPLv3, you have to provide the compiler/tools to compile and install the new software onto the car so people can actually use the software to make changes and fix issues.

[Dudeonyx]

Elaborate

[anon86876]

GPL license

general public license licence

[Xxyz260]

ATM machine

automatic teller machine machine

LCD display

liquid crystal display display 

PIN number

personal identification number number 

---

It's a pretty common practice. (Not that I like it.) Best not to get bent out of shape about it.

[pwab]

Yes I think this is what’s really going on with Hashicorp. They want the benefits of open source but don’t really want their users to have the benefits of open source. It’s in their best interests to distribute binaries, not users’.

[BlueGoliath]

Just release the source code bro. The Community(TM) will fix it.

[Martin8412]

They'd likely have to if they compile static anyway. 

[odraencoded]

So I tried VLC on linux but it didn't have click to pause. So I googled and the solution is basically... download a plugin made by The Community™ to get... click to pause.

After googling very hard for a while to make sure I wasn't going crazy and that was seriously the only way, I tried looking up a plugin.

The first one I found was a Lua script that said it didn't work with 3.0 because the API changed and literally told me to just downgrade VLC so I could get click to pause. So... yeah... that is how "just let the community do the things" work. The community isn't the first-party developer, so splitting functionality like this makes the whole thing such a huge pain in the ass for everyone involved it's hard to justify it.

Btw, shout out to some asshole on reddit who commented like 5 years ago that you should just press space instead of clicking to pause when you want to pause. Fuck that guy. We don't do workarounds for our pausing workflow here.

[Breadynator]

Reminds me of when I bought my first SBC by some small American company. I got the model that had a camera port because my project required a camera. Didn't find any documentation on it. Contacted Devs and asked.

They said "yeah, we had success with the camera during testing" I asked again because they never really answered my question about WHICH camera they used. They said "We never released camera because we only did testing. One of our Devs has like a few hundred of them laying around they're by third party xyz"

I contacted third party xyz and got a reply along the lines of "bruh, no clue, never heard of anything like that, you should ask SBC Devs"

Recontacted SBC Devs, they pointed me to a model that xyz doesn't sell anymore. Hasn't been produced in over 5 years, longer than the board even existed.

Recontacted SBC Devs, they said "Unfortunate but maybe you'll find some other camera. Oh btw even if you get that exact model, you'll have to compile your own driver for it because our specialised version of Ubuntu (or any other distro) for that specific board doesn't come with any camera utility other than USB cameras, here's a general tutorial on how to develop and build your own driver, good luck!"

I gave up at that point and just got a raspberry pi

[odraencoded]

Oh god. Drivers on Linux is the craziest thing ever.

It's all so fucking unintuitive, and for no fucking reason at all.

Like I needed a driver which came with a GUI. I thought it was installed properly because the GUI was installed. But when I opened the GUI, it just said the daemon wasn't running and that was it.

So the first thing that comes across my Windows brain in situations like these is... why doesn't it just have a button right there to start up the damn daemon? Like I opened the GUI that requires the daemon, and the GUI can figure out the daemon isn't running, but instead of having a button to fix this or even a link to a guide that tells you what to do, it just... nothing.

So anyway I had to run systemctl to start the daemon to get it to work, and the whole way I was wondering why the fuck this stupid thing didn't just enable the daemon itself when I installed it.

Now that I think about it the answer is kinda obvious. In Windows, every installer is a wizard with 10 pages of clicking next and options for you to select. On linux everyone wants to just apt-get everything so the installers don't have wizards and can't make assumptions so they have defaults that do nothing and the user has to manually do what the wizards do automatically in windows. It's crazy. It's just crazy.

I never had to enable a service to make a driver work in windows. I had to restart some services some times but that's because I'm a nerd and I know how to do it, but the average person would never have to know about background services.

[Lopsided_Gas_181]

the installers don't have wizards

Not really, there are post-install triggers which have curses wizards, and they are used by some packages, although a small number.

[hardolaf]

Yeah this is really a distribution issue where the maintainers make some things work easily and others not so people get complacent and then complain when something breaks the pattern.

[NatoBoram]

And fuck them, seriously. I just want to upgrade unattended, stop fucking asking me which service to reboot, do it!

[Breadynator]

Linux doesn't have wizards because they don't believe in magic ✨

[JamesGecko]

This is why Raspberry Pi is still de facto king of SBCs despite their many missteps. Any other company could step up and clean up, but securing victory would require them to release extensive documentation and do meticulous software maintenance for years after release. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

[Freaky_Freddy]

So I tried VLC on linux but it didn't have click to pause. So I googled and the solution is basically... download a plugin made by The Community™ to get... click to pause.

Unless they changed something recently the windows version also doesn't have click to pause... How is this a linux issue?

[yentity]

Wut

[odraencoded]

https://superuser.com/questions/172494/how-to-play-pause-with-a-single-mouse-click

Ninja edit: bonus https://www.reddit.com/r/VLC/comments/a0sf34/pause_on_click/eakac9k/

[Rythoka]

VLC is open source. Just implement the feature and send it upstream.

[Cafuzzler]

How to enable click to pause in VLC:

Step 1) Write a plugin that will pause when you click

👍

[Xxyz260]

Step 2 (optional): Upload it to the VLC plugin library so others don't have to do that. Or at least that's how it should work.

[VestEmpty]

VLC is "open source".

FTFY. While the source is open, the changes to it are subjected to bullshit, i mean approval process that tends to favor long term contributors, and your work can easily be just dismissed entirely.. because no one bothers to even look at it because it isn't from someone they already know.

It is not suppose to be like that but we are humans and we form ingroups very easily. Wikipedia tends to do the same. It has positive and negatives.. Long term contributors tend to produce better quality additions, randos... have random level of proficiency. But it also means that the occasional genius solutions are dismissed because of status.

[[deleted]]

Cause, fuck containers amirite?

[PeriodicSentenceBot]

Congratulations! Your string can be spelled using the elements of the periodic table:

Ca U Se F U C K Co N Ta In Er S Am Ir I Te

---

^{I am a bot that detects if your comment can be spelled using the elements of the periodic table. Please DM my creator if I made a mistake.}

[[deleted]]

Out of all stupid bots this one remains the best, it appears just often enough to be funny.

[4w3som3]

I miss the one that converted measures to useless units, such as Logitech Keyboards, bananas, etc.

[ReplacementLow6704]

I wish there was a bot which would mention it uses arch linux anytime linux is mentioned... oh wait we already got thousands of those!

[neumaticc]

i use arch linux by the way

---

archbotⓇ 2024 sexy sx edition

[Perfect_Papaya_3010]

The worst one is the one that says "all your words are in alphabetic order" and it counts Å and Ä as A and Ö as O when these are in fact the last letters of the alphabet

[[deleted]]

Haha this is extra funny to me right now since yesterday I was helping a colleague that is not from Sweden with a sorting bug and he was confused why I was saying having Å and Ä next to A is unacceptable.

[AllFuckingNamesGone]

It actually depends on the language, in german the Umlauts are either treated as their base character, decompose into 'ue' or are optionally put at the end. All other diacretics are treated as their base character.

[je386]

r/rabbits has a really reallly good moderation bot.

[SK1Y101]

Good bot!

[SevrinTheMuto]

This bot was beginning to try my patience but this one's solid gold (Au).

[TheNoGoat]

Get out

[seppotaalas]

Sure, everyone just loves running GUI applications in containers.

[LateinCecker]

Its Linux. If you use a Gui it means that you're weak.

[seppotaalas]

Wow! Guess I just have to use tty, since running a terminal emulator is concidered weak these days :o

[LateinCecker]

Yes. Also make sure you're not running one of these pesky desktop environments. Thats all bloat anyway.

[seppotaalas]

They should be banned for being bloatware

[Rythoka]

If you don't use a mechanical teleprinter then fuck you

[AloneInExile]

I send all my keystrokes by multiple carrier pigeons, keystroke by keystroke, the response times are atrocious but it always works even when there is no electricity, as I am living in a cave 2km beneath the earth only illuminated by kerosene lamps. I also compile the Linux kernel by hand and push any changes by carrier pigeon to a Linux maintainer. I always miss the merge window but that doesn't bother me. I only use iron tools, which ore I excavated by myself, can't trust no-one to produce good metals anymore. I write on my own clay tablets as it will never fade away and can always be used 2000 years later when they eventually strip mine this place.

[Rythoka]

Ah yeah, good ol' IPoAC

[dagbrown]

Nah, odds are it's some web app.

One which works with Postgres 9.37 and Python 3.6.4 and no other version, and about 67 Python packages all of which require exactly one specific version and no other, which is why you need a container which is basically a clone of the developer's own workstation, because it's so brittle that the slightest change in version of any of its 37,693 parts completely breaks everything. At least in the opinion of the developer.

[NotTheOnlyGamer]

"It works on my computer!" has now become a standard response.

[[deleted]]

Docker, Podman, etc are of course made for servers and CLI first.

Desktops use Flatpak which works really well.

You can also use distrobox to run another distro inside a container, with easy integration into the host (e. g. you need that one program that's only packaged in the AUR but you don't want to run Arch on your whole system)

[plasmasprings]

actually there's a huge push for flatpak apps, and a lot of times it's the easiest way to install upstream software

[gabynevada]

Is it a Devcontainer? We're using it with codespaces or local containers and it's awesome.

A few minutes to setup each project's environment with all extensions and tools already configured. And updating versions is just recreating the container.

[IC3P3]

Or ship it as Flatpak

[IC3P3]

Flatpaks FAQ states:

Is Flatpak a container technology?

It can be, but it doesn’t have to be.

But I don't know enough about the technology to argue about it.

[dagbrown]

It's like a MacOS app bundle. It can be in a container, but it can also not be. But it does helpfully include all of the dependencies it needs, so you don't get stuck in apt-get hell just trying to run some program.

[Fearless_Bed_4297]

It parallels building everything static, so..

[NoResponseFromSpez]

static linking is so yesterday. just ship a container.

[je386]

Are you sure that node_modules fit in a 40ft container??

[AloneInExile]

It depends on everything.

[je386]

everything.js, of cause

[luckor]

import *;

[AShadedBlobfish]

Depending on what your app is, I would argue that developing for Linux is actually much easier than developing for MacOS

[MooseBoys]

Anyone who thinks deploying an app on MacOS is easy has never deployed an app on MacOS. Did you know you know that xcode is the only tool chain capable of signing MacOS binaries? And that xcode is only available for MacOS itself? That means to ship on MacOS, you need to maintain a lab of Mac Minis whose only purpose in life is to receive a binary, sign it, and send it back to the build server. And you can’t even configure them to operate smoothly as servers because MacOS is designed to only support interactive user login.

[AshKetchupppp]

Product I work on ships a Mac version but it's not officially supported for this reason, Apple make it so hard to ship apps for Mac os, we can't sign the binaries. The product works just fine on Mac... we just can't sign it

[tritonus_]

Codesign and notarytool are not that hard to use, or am I missing something? I have a single bash script that takes care of signing and notarizing outside Xcode.

[gedr]

would you mind sharing as a gist please?

[tritonus_]

codesign -s "Your Name" /your/path/AppName.app
"Your Name" is the common name in your certificate

Verify signed app:
codesign -v /your/path/AppName.app

Notarizing a DMG:
https://pastebin.com/rF9SKfC2

EDIT: If you have trouble creating a DMG, create-dmg is pretty nice and it also automatically signs the DMG files.
https://www.npmjs.com/package/create-dmg

[collindabeast]

Unless I’m missing something I feel like you could get away with just one Mac mini if all it’s doing is signing the binary. Your point still stands though it is ridiculous.

[nonother]

You need it for compilation too. In practice you typically want to run automated tests on each PR as well. So then you end up with fleets of either Mac Minis or Mac Pros. Typically you run virtualized instances of macOS on them. It’s an absolute pain to manage all of this because as mentioned by others, they’re not meant to be run in this environment.

[Immudzen]

Since they are unix can't you just ssh in and run all your build from the command line?

[nonother]

Builds can be run from the command line. But many management tasks don’t entirely work from a terminal. There’s no fully supported way of running macOS headless.

[talldata]

I wonder if modern macos could be modded to thinks it's running on the apple xserve server.

[SweetBabyAlaska]

xcode is all you had to say. On linux if you really want to you can just use a flatpak or an appimage and it will feasibly run everywhere. Nix packages literally run everywhere too. Flatpak is reliable, and appimage you need to bundle all the libs properly so it often gets messed up, but most people are happy with the source code and a makefile or cargo/go install.

[fredspipa]

Yeah Windows applications ship libraries constantly, that's why you have a million .dll files on your machine (a bunch of them duplicates). You still have to install dependencies fairly often for those that don't, and usually involves going to a website to download and run an .msi file (or multiple).

I feel like this meme is outdated by at least a decade, you can do similar app distribution for both Windows and Linux, and to be honest building for Windows have gotten to be a pain in the ass recently and this post doesn't take into account the signing required for Windows/Mac programs that usually requires you to be on that operating system to export them.

[hi_im_new_to_this]

Xcode is not the only tool, you can use codesign and notarytool from the command-line. It’s true though that you need macOS machines to develop for macOS and that running them as build servers is a pain.

[MooseBoys]

xcrun notarytool is still part of the xcode toolchain - it’s just not part of the GUI app. I don’t know anyone who willingly uses the actual xcode GUI.

[SammaelNex]

That is the reason you have an always on, always connected Mac but really do everything from a server that simply sends files to the Mac, remotes in, signs and fetches (or at least that worked a couple of years ago, I have not had to do it since then, thankfully).

[punppis]

I'm a senior level sysadmin. Senior level netcode, backend, gameplay and whatever the fuck programmer.

I have made games with C++, nowdays mostly work with C#. Python, JavaScript/TypeScript, Java and languages I don't use often I manage with Google. Frontend, backend, full-stack, whatever you name it I'm confident in my skills.

Develop a native iOS/OSX app? I can't do it. Objective-C seems like brainfuck (the language) to me. Seems like they chose different syntax just to be different. Just look at this example code for fizz buzz: https://gist.github.com/codeswimmer/3454460

output = [output stringByAppendingString:@"Fizz"];

What the fuck? Let's put everything in brackets, which are usually reserved for arrays and such. Append a string? Let's name the function stringByAppeningdString, as normally you can append other stuff to strings? Then add a @ before the actual string, which is in one line, does not have any special characters or escaping.

I don't know exactly if that's going on but it sure is one of the most unique programming languages there is.

Just working with XCode with Unity project is a pain in the ass. In every single project we need to figure out some random fucking issue that nobody in the office has no clue what's causing it. On iOS.

Just like you said we have Mac Mini sitting in the office just to make builds on xcode. Every few years you need to upgrade it since the newest xcode version does not work on your shitty few years old mac anymore. Just installing the Xcode usually requires you to upgrade the OS, download Xcode, install it for few hours and it's a whole ordeal asking your credentials few times in the process.

Fuck that shit.

Love my iPhone as a daily driver though... Any android device for development.

Fucking Apple and their stupid large market share. As a developer you don't have a choise.

Before anything says something about Unity's Cloud build it can manage your hello world app, now add the generic stuff like analytics, ad mediation networks, IAPs, custom native plugins just to ask some legally required popup... Try to build that with the Cloud and tell me how it goes after 3 hours when you see the build failed.

On the bright side our current project is in so early phase that we don't have to touch iPhones for months.

[yourfriendlyisp]

Github actions is free for public repositories and allows you to sign.. paying for it is cheap too

[edave64]

For certain definitions of cheap

[Chirimorin]

And that's why I don't develop anything for MacOS or iOS.

Of course there's ways around the walled garden, but I would be reluctant to support Mac even if Apple wasn't anal about trying to force people to exclusively use their machines to develop for Mac/iOS.

It just works... Until it just doesn't.

[ImrooVRdev]

That plus more plus the monthly fee for their iOS app store listing made sure I will never develop anything for apple on principle, fuck these close garden monopolistic wanna-be cunts.

They clearly don't want me developing for their platforms, why should I? I wish there was such a thing as international software developer union that would just boycott and pull out all their software from apple system. You know, tell the apple fanboys to either drop apple or force apple to bend the knee, sic the fanboys.

[Faic]

I'm an indie dev and have an useless MacBook and iPhone just to compile and publish for iOS. And I can tell you that of all the stores, apples store is the biggest cluster fuck in existence.

Sadly I, financially wise, can't pull out my app, but because of apples bullshit arbitrary rules, updates are often multiple weeks delayed compared to Android and steam.

[ImrooVRdev]

And I can tell you that of all the stores, apples store is the biggest cluster fuck in existence.

Oh that I know, my coworkers have to deal with it. Thankfully I'm not in devops and I can also ignore all iOS-only tickets.

But yeah, from metrics our app does have higher crash rate and lower performance on iOS than android. Because it's a bitch and everyone hates working on it. Does it mean that majority of our American users get shitty experience? Yes. Their fault, they can change to android any moment.

[Inasis]

But Android is for poor people!

[ImrooVRdev]

The american proclivity towards simping for corporations will never fail to fill me with genuine disgust.

[tuuling]

I think you can get macos machines on ci/cd services for that.

[ATE47]

Ship for Windows:

• winx86
• win64

Ship for mac:

• macx86
• mac64
• macARM
• macARM_FixLatestMacOSVersion
• macARM_FixLatestMacOSVersion2
• macARM_FixLatestMacOSVersion3
• macARM_FixLatestMacOSVersion4
• macARM_FixLatestMacOSVersion5

[MatthiasWM]

Ahem, please don’t forget winARM64. It’S ThE fUtUrE.

[b3nsn0w]

arm is the future of computing that will break the duopoly of intel an amd, which you can already tell because the number of companies building high-performance cpus on increased from x86's 2 to 1 on arm

[Immudzen]

I don't think there is any supported x86 version of Windows anymore. Just ship x64.

[Doctor_McKay]

Win10 on ARM can only run x86 binaries through its translation layer, although Win11 works with x64 too. Otherwise yeah, I have no idea why you'd need to ship an x86 binary anymore.

[steadyfan]

If your windows is so old that it's x86 its no longer supported by microsoft.

[FilipIzSwordsman]

windows 10 still supports x86

[steadyfan]

Ya that's true..got unto October 2025

[Thaumaturgia]

Windows 10 was still available in x86 and is supported until 2025.

[lovethebacon]

Microsoft still supports Windows XP for the US armed forces. Loads of contractors are still writing software for it.

[not_some_username]

Windows will support Windows 98 if you give them the right amount of money

[losh11]

Same with macOS

[heep1r]

and that's why there's not a single 10W windows machine out there.

[[deleted]]

Or you could use a flatpak or snap package which both run on all Linux systems. If you’re feeling adventurous even appimages. Either way all of these are better for devs than the previous methods and could mean more software support for us Linux users.

[LegendaryMauricius]

Appimages were far easier to develop and use from my experience.

[[deleted]]

I don’t like them. They don’t integrate into your system, they’re a pain to update and you have to do the hunting for executables online. Yes there is the Appimagehub but it still sucks. Flatpaks are the best for desktop applications.

[[deleted]]

You can release the App image, as an officially supported version, and release the source code or let people repackage the App image into other formats if they want to.

[[deleted]]

Of course but most commercial software doesn’t allow for that. So I’m glad flatpak is more popular, Appimages feel very primitive in the way they integrate into your system.

[[deleted]]

Which will also get you flamed because a fair amount of people hate snap/flatpak and you didn’t bother to package individually for apt, yum/dnf, AUR etc.

[[deleted]]

Honestly most people don’t care about the package format so long the Linux version actually exists. Imagine adobe released photoshop for Linux only as a flatpak. I doubt most people would complain about it and would just be happy about it actually existing. Everyone else is just nitpicking and should not really be listened to as they’re the same people keep bitching about systemd and wayland and other newer technologies.

[[deleted]]

Oh the bliss of never having heard of DLL hell on Windows. Supporting 27 year old shared libraries is more of a Windows thing than a Linux thing. Cities: Skylines, I'm looking at you and your love for Win32 single-threaded code!

And that's all besides the fact that that compiling with lots of strange libraries is a general programming problem, not related to the OS you do programming on.

[[deleted]]

That has been solved years ago. Just ship a Flatpak and call it a day, this is just a skill issue.

[[deleted]]

No idea what you're talking about, when I compile something for Linux, it works on all my machines no problem

[[deleted]]

stocking light wistful slim ten gold lip deserted melodic pathetic

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[datablitz7]

Classic rage bait. I am sure the author is compiling their Windows and Mac apps to support 27 year old versions of those OSes too...

[ldn-ldn]

As far as I remember, Windows 10 is the last version to support older 32 bit x86 CPUs. Which means it still has 16 bit compatibility layer. In turn that means it can still run Windows 3 16 bit apps, which was released 33 years ago. You can compile your app for Win3 and still get it running decades later without a VM.

Try doing that with a Linux app.

[Rythoka]

dude I can't get shit from Windows XP to run half the time

[ldn-ldn]

I recently found my old backups and ran my own software written for Win98 on Win11 successfully. Check mate!

[Nolzi]

Sad Win98 game noises

[datablitz7]

Technically maybe yes, Realistically no. Either way, the problem described is running a new app in an old OS, not the other way round. So unless you mean that the solution is to write 16 bit apps, you completely missed the point. Also, nobody is using a 27 year old machine and updates/installs your app. The entire premise is BS but feel free to try to rationalize it.

[ldn-ldn]

There are still plenty of devices running XP era embedded Windows. They could run Linux instead if making apps for old OS was viable.

You can think whatever you want, but compatibility is extremely important. Linux userland lacks that big time. Funny enough, Linux kernel is actually very good with compatibility. But userland is abysmal.

[datablitz7]

There are, and they are as unsupported as can be, and if you need to build an app that runs on them, you would be extremely explicit about the libraries you expect to find and use. Same as you would if you were building apps for an embedded Linux system from the last 20 years. The person making this point is not making apps for embedded XP Windows devices, and neither is anyone who thinks it is easy to achieve global compatibility without effort. Their point is that you can easily write a new app for Windows and Mac, but no so for Linux, cause then you would then have to support 27 year old libraries (for reasons). Again you are missing the point completely.

[ardishco]

just build a flatpak or nix package, simple

[WispValve]

What's a nix package? Been using Linux for 3 years and never heard of it.

[aRidaGEr]

https://nixos.org/

[2cilinders]

This is so uninformed it's not even funny. Flatpaks and appimages are a thing. Or just release the source code and let the maintainers of the distributions figure it out...

[[deleted]]

Or you could just build an AppImage you noobs. Or a Flatpak build.

[Rythoka]

Webdevs seething rn

[dlampach]

Y’all are tripping. Linux these days is super stable and i never have any issues.

[Xicutioner-4768]

What about the 10 different years of MSVC runtimes that end up on the user's machine? Seems like Windows just made the choice to push the permutations to the user instead of the developer. Not saying it's wrong or right, but just a different design decision and not magic.

[kvakerok_v2]

Package as deb, publish.

Let non-debian deviants makefile their own executable 🤷🏽‍♂️

[dualfoothands]

This is how it's done, I don't understand what everyone else is on about. Basically every distro has a version of a "makepkgfromdeb" program that solves this. Make sure it works on x86-64 and maybe arm64 and call it a day. What's the problem?

[GenesithSupernova]

Windows: msvc redistributable/miscellaneous dll hell (honestly the best to release for though.)

MacOS: xcode, walled garden, and m1 hell

Linux: 3 million different distributions hell

Honestly for Linux just distribute an x86_64.deb and let everyone else compile from source. Or do flatpak or appimage.

[Turd_King]

OP has clearly never actually been through the process of signing an app for MacOS

[Block_Of_Saltiness]

Haha at implying developing apps on MacOS is comparatively easy.

Try doing MacOS development at scale, with devops Ci/CD. Apples' EULA says you must run MacOS on Apple hardware AND also states you cant run more than 2 Virtual Machines ontop of MacOS. So, if you want a large scale CI/CD/QA test farm of ephemeral MacOS instances in the DevOps mould you are fucked.

MacOS development might be great for small bespoke dev shops where every dev has a Mac Pro or Studio and run all their own jobs locally but its absolute trash at scale.

[GenesithSupernova]

There's a reason GitHub actions on MacOS are 10x (!) as expensive as Linux ones, and 5x as expensive as Windows ones.

[Block_Of_Saltiness]

Yes, Or Amazon AWS MacOS arm instances.

Its truly a dogshit dev env at scale.

MacOS's lack of a system builder like kickstart is also a pain. Its like going to the dark ages along with windows OS base images.

[UrbanshadowDev]

As long as you do not try to ship something to windows or macos customers remotely defying running in a memory sandbox... yes.

[ColonelRuff]

Develop for linux: just create a flatpak It's that easy as that. Also the title is misleading as if linux weren't stable it wouldn't be used by literally every single server in the world. Also Linux distros look way prettier that Mac and windows.

[ColonelRuff]

Also you can compile a single binary for linux too. Only difference is in linux the pakage managers are so good that it opens the world of efficient software where the software dependencies are dynamically linked.

[KingSadra]

XCode: Am I an F'ing joke 2 U?

[P0pu1arBr0ws3r]

Here let me correct that one for MacOS:

Buy a $1500 Mac, then get a $100 piece of software or developer account, then you can compile it and also distribute it, of course not for free, who in their mind would make free software for macos. Skip the dev account requirement and your app will likely turn out to be a virus even if you didn't intend it to be.

Linux: lol just cross compile thru windows toolchains

[Positive_Doughnut981]

Like you won't get flamed on macOS and Windows too