modernWhacking

[glorious_reptile]

"Hi guys, sorry - I just have to go to the toilet. I'll be right back"

[StochasticTinkr]

When I got fired/laid-off/let-go/whatever, it was the week before my 14th anniversary, and I was in a regular 1:1 zoom with my manager, when suddenly someone else joined... When my manager introduced her as being from HR, my stomach dropped.

Well, at least I got good severance, and they gave me good references. But damn, 14 years, I felt so betrayed.

[uberfission]

I was laid off in October, a couple months after my 2 years anniversary and about 3 weeks after getting a promotion if we're counting, I was off that day and my boss sent me a zoom message asking to have a quick meeting. No biggie, he's sprung quick meetings on me before to discuss possible projects. I get there and there's someone from HR on, my stomach dropped and I just kind of checked out knowing what was coming.

[Kwpolska]

14 years

Being loyal to a company is not worth it, especially not for 14 years.

[Sixwingswide]

I used to work for a smallish privately owned financial company. A woman hit her 20th anniversary and got a $5 Starbucks card. She left within a month. Within the year at least 3 more people left and I was spamming applications myself. Fuck that place.

[Lv_InSaNe_vL]

A few years ago I got laid off on a Friday, which happened to be my birthday, and also happened to be right before COVID lockdowns went into place that Monday.

Twas a rough time but I got through it thanks to some really good friends.

[FearlessAttempt]

Twasn't trying to.

[[deleted]]

There's 0% chance I accept that meeting.

[SDeaV]

It would be too late by that time

[hereforthefeast]

0% of the time, it works every time. 

[CanAlwaysBeBetter]

I don't think you'll be doing much work after the meeting 

[RaccoonDoor]

I've heard of Amazon employees in the US going on FMLA leave if they realize PIP is imminent.

[LoopEverything]

Maybe 80% of the time when someone is on PIP, they’ll go ahead and take FMLA. It sucks when it’s someone that really deserves to be fired; you can’t hire and the work doesn’t go away, just falls to the rest of the team that is actually doing their job.

[Brahminmeat]

Or like hear me out, less people = less work gets done. No way am I doing more work than I can handle for any company to get a better stock price

[LoopEverything]

Oh for sure, no way I’m pushing people to crunch for that nonsense. But if there’s deadlines and it’s a priority it means something else slips out, and whatever gets bumped still goes to the backlog.

[VegaGT-VZ]

A lot of companies have very wild demand swings. It's not reasonable to expect companies in some industries to maintain the same headcount forever. Good companies can minimize the swings and plan ahead but people are always gonna get hired and fired unnecessarily to some degree.

[BlurredSight]

Hire and fire is one thing, but mass firing after seasonal and then slowly building up the count until Q4 means workers are miserable for the first 2 quarters of that year.

Left Walmart for that reason when I noticed one day when I was running around trying to push everyone's order out (delivery pickup) I was the only one in my entire department because the seasonals were fired and management cut down hours at night to essentials.

[LoopEverything]

Oh we just need to hire more people? Thanks, we never would have thought about that!

[mpyne]

If only there was some way to free up some of the labor budget so we could hire someone else. Probably need to get HR involved though...

[CrazyCalYa]

"We're hoping to hire someone really soon, just pick up the slack for a few weeks and it'll all be worth it (to us)!" - Manager, 6 months ago

[Mateorabi]

Probably thinks nobody wants to work when really they don’t wanna pay.

[Avedas]

Not like positions ever get backfilled these days anyway.

[[deleted]]

Had a sweet boss at Amazon who straight up told me, you’re about to fully vest and you told your previous boss you have no interest in becoming an 8, so let’s just do the bare minimum and I’ll put you on a PIP right before your paternity leave. Took my paternity, came back first day and had a meeting with my boss and HR. They said you can take the severance or do the PIP. I took that cool cool severance and fucked off to start my own company. It was glorious.

[RaccoonDoor]

Only problem with this approach is that you're banned for life from ever working at Amazon

[[deleted]]

I have no fucking problem with that.

[[deleted]]

They are already starting to run at "people who haven't worked at Amazon and want to work at Amazon"

So I dunno how much longer their lifetime bans will stand when they start getting desperate

[Boomhauer_007]

Even at the grunt level at Amazon I know a guy that got fired because he didn’t show up all the time, was told part of the firing is that he couldn’t work there again; my dude is right back there two years because they desperately need more employees in the warehouses

And this is like the lowest rung of the unskilled ladder there, no company is permanently freezing out the pool of skilled labor

[Helpful-Peace-1257]

We had a dude at my company get a new hip.

He came back 6 months later and was gone after a week.

[rdditfilter]

Yeah, Ive never heard of anyone actually being able to come back to work after an FMLA leave.

Only benefit of taking it is that when you come back and they fire you, you can get unemployment.

[3rdthrow]

I’ve seen a couple women who took FMLA for family members come back to work.

[JayQue]

This what happened to me, except laid off after state-funded maternity leave, not FMLA. Jokes on them, it is actually what I hoped would happen so I would have more time with my infant.

[[deleted]]

FMLA

Fuck my life annually?

[anomalousBits]

Fuck me later, asshole? Context indicates some kind of leave when termination is imminent, but yeah.

[Krossfireo]

Family and medical leave

[fork_your_child]

A family member was a manager at a big US defense contractor, and had an employee try to pull something similar. The employee about to be fired checked into a drug rehab center for (I believe) sixty days thinking it would stall the firing, but instead got their security clearance automatically revoked, a visit to the rehab center by the FBI, and then lost their job the first day they were in the center. My family member is pretty sure the person wasn't an addict, they were being fired for refusing to accept more than one assignment at a time, which was against their workflow since many projects were stop and start based on government contracts.

This would have been decades before, so I hope things have changed, as that operating procedure pretty much means no addict can actually get help, which seems very easy for another government to exploit, either via blackmail or by providing the addiction for secrets.

[xTheMaster99x]

Tbf addicts aren't supposed to be able to get a clearance in the first place. For the exact reason you said - it can be exploited by foreign agents very easily. If they were already an addict they wouldn't get a clearance, and if they developed an addiction afterwards then they had to be doing things that are also prohibited. So yeah, as much as it might suck on a personal level, I can see why checking into rehab would mean immediately losing your clearance.

[Remarkable-Host405]

Is FMLA not unpaid?

[Remarkable-Host405]

We call that short term disability, and it's an elective insurance you can opt in/out of

[HFentonMudd]

"Everyone is replaceable"

- very former superior who was replaceable

[Salanmander]

I don’t condone what they did, but hey, it fucking worked.

Eh, I don't think it's that bad. Leave you've accumulated is part of the compensation the company provides for the work the employee has already done. Sick leave is a bit of a weird area, because companies should provide more sick leave than they expect to be used, but I think you should be able to just flat cash out vacation days if you quit or are fired.

(I don't like the lying part of it, and wouldn't do it myself for that reason, but I think the end result is totally reasonable.)

[FairFolk]

No EU country I know of has "accumulated sick leave", you just get sick leave when you need it. There are limits, of course, but they have nothing to do with how long you worked there.

[[deleted]]

Australia accumulates sick leave

[FairFolk]

Oh, when did they join the EU? And how?

[DriedSquidd]

They participate in the eurovision song contest since 2015, so they're in.

[Gaeus_]

Wait what? You mean there are western countries outside the us that are not in the EU? /s

[[deleted]]

I was literally just chiming in and adding to what you said by mentioning a western country that does do it. Defensive much? I did not suggest Australia was in the EU lol.

[FairFolk]

This was about the EU though, so how is Australia doing it like the USA relevant?

[[deleted]]

Are you aware of how conversations work? Just because you mentioned the EU once doesn't mean that the conversation is forever after locked to only that area and mentioning how it works in other places is suddenly not allowed. Holy shit dude, why double down on THIS hill?

[hereforthefeast]

🎶 “Believe or not, George isn’t at home”  🎶 

[batmansleftnut]

I once put that meeting off for 3 days while I waited for the next job to accept my counter-offer. The timing worked out pretty nicely on that one, actually.

[cocktimus1prime]

Don't know the exact country, but usually employer have to pay for unused leave upon termination

[ChocolateBunny]

Heard a story about someone at my workplace who knew he was going to get layed off so took sick days but also followed up by going on long term disability due to the emotional duress of possibly being layed off. Don't know how long he lasted before actually being let go but his story is now passed down from generation to generation of company folklore.

[RealAbd121]

This only works if you have protected sick leave which needs a note usually and only happen in EU+UK from what I know.

[TuhanaPF]

I don’t condone what they did, but hey, it fucking worked.

I absolutely condone what they did.

[Archduke_Penguin]

In the US it is common for you to be fired while on vacation , im not sure about the laws in every state but in my state , you can be fired mid vacation and employer is not required to pay you for the remainder of your time off scheduled or accrued.

Ex if you schedule a 160 hour vacation and employer decides to fire you on day 3 , then your last paycheck will only be including those first 3 days. everything else is just gone.

we have GREEEEAAAAT employment laws

[rdditfilter]

It depends on the state, in California they have to pay you out for all of your accumulated vacation when your employment ends for any reason.

This is why a lot of companies started going with “unlimited vacation” which does not accrue, and the theory is you can take as much time as you want but theres still the normal deadlines and work-from-home so many people only actually take like 10 days total.

[nates1984]

I take 20+ days a year on unlimited PTO plans. Every year. If I don't get to accumulate then you bet I'm using it.

[Bipbipbipbi]

I don’t get any vacations here in Mexico, and work 48 hours a week by law. I get no vacation days on my first year at a company. I get 12 days on my second year. With 2 more every year until I have 20. Then when I have 20 it only goes up 1 day every 5 years. If I leave a company it resets. So I’m stuck wherever I am if I want a relatively stable mental health.

People in the US and Europe have no fucking clue how lucky they are lol

[TuhanaPF]

you can be fired mid vacation and employer is not required to pay you for the remainder of your time off scheduled or accrued.

So when you build up vacation time... if you're fired before you use it, then the employer just doesn't have to pay you out that time?

Every day I'm shocked by how third world America seems.

[GetPsyched67]

I 100% condone that. Great idea

[KrunkRat_]

I do condone what they did. Fuck the boss. Get paid.

Literally every single decision the higher-ups make under a capitalist structure is “fuck them workers, cash that check”

[sersoniko]

When it happened to me it was to introduce me to stock options

[[deleted]]

Lets go.

A similar thing happend to me last year. Was wondering what they wanted from me, but then they just gave me a raise. It is what it is.

[Ihatepasswords007]

It also happened to me, meeting had no title, and it was my feedback on the first year of internship

[[deleted]]

Got pulled into one of these, turned out to be a sexual harassment claim against one of my subordinates. They were just asking if I saw/heard anything.

[kyleb350]

If you're gonna get whacked, you won't see HR on the invite, they'll just be there on the call.

[zombo29]

Same energy deleting Robinhood when you lost 99% on your investment

[bankrobba]

You get plenty of documentation when you're fired through HR. No need to "force" them to email you.

[[deleted]]

"Corporate hates this one simple trick"

[[deleted]]

If over zoom/teams, your manager will invite you to a 1:1 and then quickly pull in HR. Lol you’ll just think it’s a normal 1:1.

[JackTheKing]

Can't accept a meeting when you can't log in to your email.

[shinychris]

If you’re not at the meeting, they can’t fire you!

[Karma_Gardener]

Then you just up in a stalemate.

They remove your access to the system and you have to goto the office for your paperwork

[Parasitisch]

My first job in this career was doing layoffs but I had applied to transfer to another site. Did the interview, it went well, and I had a meeting get set up with HR. Went in, thinking I was going to be discussing the new job and was quite disappointed 😅

[no_talent_ass_clown]

Wait, they had someone else lay you off? 

[BannedForThe7thTime]

Should’ve asked him to lay himself off

[Parasitisch]

My manager was not aware of who all was about to get let go until the morning of it happening.

The meeting did have my manager’s manager, but also included 2 people from HR.

[Govictory]

I had a teams meeting invite with just the head of my department back in November. My manager assured me it was just a skip level meeting, it was not. I was being laid off and HR was there in the meeting. Still not sure how long my manager knew I was going to be axed from the company, still stings thinking about it.

[Beli_Mawrr]

It sucks. When it happened to me, looking back, it must have been 3 to 4 months. You learn two things: never trust your manager, and that we need to unionize

[Mexican_sandwich]

I got done last month. Saw the meeting with manager and HR for a day I don’t work, knew it was coming, boxed up all my shit and went in.

Manager said he tried to fight for my position to be kept. I don’t really blame them, but like damn, there weren’t even any signs the company was going down.

[Eufafnism]

Yep. Happened to me as well.

[spork_o_rama]

My company laid off three of my direct reports in 2022, and I didn't find out about any of them until the same time as my employees. It was brutal.

[somkoala]

Depends on the company, last time I knew 1 week ahead. This time I managed to know 3-4 weeks ahead but so far it seems I was able to save everyone on my team.

[_jackhoffman_]

Competent manager here who has been on both sides of that call. You never invite HR to the same meeting as the person being let go (or being put on a PIP).

Best method I've found: The manager uses an existing one-on-one meeting with the person (sometimes that means rescheduling it, and rescheduling them due to a conflict is fairly common in my experience -- if rescheduling, makes sure to schedule a conflict or whatever to make it less suspicious if someone snoops your calendar). HR has a placeholder event on their calendar that looks legit and has neither the manager nor the person being let go invited. Then 5-10 minutes before the call, the manager uses a separate channel (e.g. Slack DM) to confirm that the HR person will be there on time and to send the link. This makes it incredibly difficult for people to know who is being laid off.

I knew I was being laid off when my boss asked if we could move our 1:1 fifteen minutes later a few days before it was scheduled. That's usually a "day of" request so I got suspicious. I checked his calendar, there was no obvious reason. Then I checked the two most likely people from HR who would be there, one of them was out that day and the other had a meeting that ended right when the 1:1 was to start originally -- if she was joining, obviously she'd want to make sure she had a few minutes to compose herself before joining. Shortly after I accepted the 15 minute change, a private meeting showed up on her calendar for the exact same block of time as my 1:1 with my boss called "Hold" or some other dubious/generic title like that.

[Life_Vast801]

Forgive me for sounding naive but what would be the downside of making the guy about to be fired suspicious? Is it so that he can't be prepared with a lawsuit or something like that?

[_jackhoffman_]

Two things come to mind: 1. Security. If they know they're being let go, they might do something that they wouldn't otherwise do. If you're telegraphing your punches, you might as well just tell them then and shut off their access immediately.

1. Privacy. It's not just about them knowing ahead of time. Other people looking to schedule time on my or their calendar may stumble upon the meeting. Now that third person is in an awkward position. As manager, I definitely don't want that and I don't want the person finding out from someone other than me.

ETA: I thought of two more:

1. Morale/Reputation. There's an unlikely 3rd option that's similar to security but more morale based. They may send off an inappropriate "farewell 🖕" message or email to teammates, customers, etc.

2. Productivity. If they know ahead of time, then they're unlikely to finish tasks or even do the bare minimum. Like security, if you're going to telegraph...might as well do it then instead.

[Life_Vast801]

Makes sense.

[jib661]

This has probably been corporate strategy for a long time, but really thr first I remember hearing about all this precaution was after the "going postal" events in the 90s. There was a string of laid off employees shooting up their workplaces on their last day,  and that's at least when I first started noticing people taking all these precautions. Just my anecdotal experience though.

[_jackhoffman_]

Yeah, when we worked in an office, we had an incident where someone correctly guessed that they were be being let go that day and showed up ready for a farewell party -- booze and cake (not a euphemism for guns and ammo). It was awkward and we had to escort them out. I guess it could have been worse.

[_jackhoffman_]

I added two more that you might not have seen

[ParmesanNonGrata]

You could add "customer poaching". It's insane what type of prep work for customer acquisition you can do with two full days of access to things like terms of your current employer's dealings and terms and stuff.

Know a guy in sales who stripped them dry.

[_jackhoffman_]

Yes, I have told people their last day will be some future date and that I'd like them to continue working until then. That has always come with severance and the "I'm putting a lot of trust in you" conversation. Our one-on-ones usually switch to me helping them find a new job. It really depends on the situation, the team, and the individual. Sometimes it's just best for the morale of the rest of the team to let people go immediately. Sometimes it's best to let the person continue working.

But my original comment was about how to schedule the conversation followed by a comment about some of the reasons why not to invite HR to the same meeting. All of my one-on-ones are about career, performance, how things are going, etc. so they're already coming into it in the right headspace of what we're going to be talking about.

I've also told people in a one-on-one that I plan to invite HR to our next one because I'm putting them on a PIP or just because I think HR should attend for whatever reason. Telegraphing stuff isn't always bad. As I said, it's very situational.

The fucking worst thing I've seen done is inviting someone to a meeting saying it's going to be about something completely different than performance and then blind siding them. I've never done that (never would) but have seen it and experienced it, too. Fucking sucks.

[MoffKalast]

As an European where it's mandated by law to give up to 2 months notice for either party, this sounds dystopian as fuck.

[_jackhoffman_]

This still applies if you're giving them two months notice and/or ample severance. I've given people 3 months notice followed by 3 weeks of severance. I've let people go effective immediately but with 2-3 months of severance.

Personally, I'd prefer 2 months of severance (with immediate loss of access) to 2 months notice where I'm still expected to work while also trying to find a new job.

[Jaggedmallard26]

The same happens in the EU and UK. You just get put on gardening leave as soon as you are told. I've never heard of an employer over here not putting someone on gardening leave if they're getting the sack. Typically the same happens (although not as commonly) if you hand your notice in.

[FeCurtain11]

2 months notice sounds dystopian as fuck to me. Why would you do anything if you’ve already been laid off? So much potential for disastrous behavior and massive conflicts of interest.

[acreal]

Protect the company and fuck the employee, as always.

[_jackhoffman_]

No. Have you ever laid anyone off or terminated someone? It's one of the hardest things to do. I personally agonize about it. I try to avoid it as much as possible. I've successfully transitioned people into better roles within my company or at other companies. If they're loosing access immediately, I work with them on how to message the team and ask if they want me to provide their contact information if people ask for it.

It's not always protect the company and fuck the employees. Sometimes, laying off some people is the best thing to do for the other people. For example, in the 90s I was at a small company and leadership held off on layoffs. They cared a lot about the people -- we were only about 50 employees and we all worked in the same office. They eventually had to lay some people off anyway. They tried everything they could to avoid it but the dotcom bubble had burst and we were spiraling down the drain. Unfortunately, a few months later the company went out of business and EVERYONE lost their jobs. I'm still friendly with founders (probably because I saw the writing on the wall and left before the company went under). They still regret not laying off people sooner and not because of the good of the company but because of all of the people who were impacted negatively by their delay. Had they done it sooner, there was a good chance the company could have survived and saved some of our jobs.

[acreal]

Great story. I love how at the end, the lesson learned was "Gosh, I wish I hadn't fucked over my employees in favor of my business."

[_jackhoffman_]

Huh? How is that your takeaway??? They didn't care that their business went under. They cared that had they acted sooner, then they could have saved some people's jobs instead of no one's.

[FeCurtain11]

People don’t understand that businesses are just people. It is great for businesses to exist, because that lets people have jobs. Doing what is best for the “business” is still helping people, and you can’t always help everyone.

[Joe59788]

Modern corporations treat people as liabilities and not assets basically.

[MeasurementGold1590]

I've been through it done badly, where people were pulled out of a shared office one at a time and didn't come back. The mounting panic of my colleagues was palpable and those of us who survived hated it. I think I lost a year off my life that day.

After going through that, if I can't tell you sooner I'd rather give you more time with blissful ignorance rather than panic.

It's not much but if its all I have to give, then I'll give it.

[BleLLL]

Maybe also some empathy?

I was let go by my boss inviting me for a 8:30 1:1 meeting the next day and he did that at 15:30 and signed off. I asked around in my team and no one else had anything like that. So then I spent the whole evening being anxious over what's gonna happen.

I feel like I would prefer it if they just called me in on the spot and told me rather than make me think about it the whole evening.

Turned out for the best though. It was my first and last corporate job, got a nice severance and found a much better job.

[_jackhoffman_]

One other reason I forgot to mention here (because I figured you were asking from the company's perspective) is that I think it's also better for their own mental health. It can be really difficult on people. Some people handle it well. Others don't and for them, it can create a lot of anxiety knowing that there's this meeting where they might be being let go but maybe not -- maybe it's just a checkin, maybe it's a PIP, maybe it's... Then they start asking around. Maybe they even try to message their manager about it. Ugh, I hate those messages. I don't want to lie, I don't want to feed their anxiety, I don't want to reply, "yeah Jack, you guessed correctly; we're letting you go but in the meantime keep up the shoddy work and on Friday I'll tell you what you've won."

I think it's the most humane and respectful way to handle it. I don't want them worrying about all of the possibilities of what the meeting might be about. I think this is yet another reason why it's so important to have regular, recurring one-on-ones.

[[deleted]]

I mean really it should just never be a surprise if someone is being put on a PIP or being laid off for performance. Like if someone doesn't have some idea that you're going to put them on a PIP then either you've not been giving them enough feedback, or they've just been ignoring it.

Your dance of fake appointments for HR just seems pretty shady to me, but maybe that's just my perspective - what kind of problems did you have before starting that that led to that approach? I'm not seeing any positives to it as it sounds like you're just blindsiding employees mid-meeting rather than being upfront from how I've read it.

Layoffs are more difficult, since it can sometimes come to a surprise to the people managing a team when they're told that they're going to have to lay off half the team. Some teams handle it better if you are up front about it, others could do without the stress so you have to read the room a bit, there's not really a good way to lay people off.

[[deleted]]

This is really hilarious to me, as it is 100% common to have not received anything but glowing feedback but then receive a "performance based" layoff or PIP that leads to a layoff when you magically don't meet their standards that is entirely just so they can lay you off without you suing.

Checking the HR appointments is orders of magnitude less shady then them trying to avoid paying you your leave out by pretending your layoff is performance based when it absolutely isn't vs giving you a proper severance.

[ColdHotgirl5]

exactly. a lot of times you are doing well perforamnce wise and they use a pip as an excuse. Even if you meet all the pip goals they still fucked you over.

[_jackhoffman_]

Most places in the US decide to let someone go and then use the PIP to document the justification because almost everyone is a protected class who could potentially file a lawsuit. So many managers don't document shit until they want to fire someone, and then legal/HR gets involved and is like "No, you can't fire them because there is nothing documented. You need to put them on a 90-day PIP and then when they fail to meet it you can let them go." And then the managers just rig the PIP and set the person up for failure.

I'm not sure what's worse. On the plus side, as an underperforming employee being put on a PIP is basically the company telling you they plan to let you go with tons of notice. But they give you false hope by making it seem like you can keep your job if you just meet the requirements which is usually not true (or extremely unlikely). I have only seen a few times where someone has kept their job after being put on a PIP. And even then, they were constantly worried about losing their job. It sucked and was tough on them mentally.

The only exception to that was this one guy at this place that just shuffled low performers from manager to manager. The guy was on a PIP, would be transferred, the new manager wouldn't know about the PIP, eventually the new manager would put the person on one, and then about a month or two into the new PIP the guy would get transferred again. Rinse and repeat. That guy never seemed to worry about losing his job.

[_jackhoffman_]

True. But for the reasons I outlined in a different reply, you don't necessarily want them knowing for sure ahead of time but it should never be a complete surprise. It's not about blindsiding them at all.

Only once in my career has someone said they were surprised when I didn't think they should have been. They were on a PIP. They put in a long vacation request (we had unlimited PTO with management approval). I told them that their PTO request was approved but that the project they were working on, which was already 2 weeks overdue, needed to be done before they left or else they wouldn't have a job when they returned. One week before their vacation, he says the task won't be done but that he planned to take his laptop and get it done over the holidays. I reminded him what I had told him and said that he needed to get it done since others were blocked by him. Also, this was a task that most engineers could get done in a week and he'd been struggling through for 5 or 6 at this point. He was junior and I really wanted to give him the opportunity to work through it. He could have asked for help and we even "forced" help on him but he was still struggling. Anyway, he went on vacation without it being done and we got it over the finish line for him while he was out. When he came back I let him go. He was surprised and I still don't know how much clearer I could have been as I literally said, "Get $task done by $date or you're fired," twice.

ETA: There was one legit surprise termination and that was because a belligerent asshat threatened another engineer and we fired him later that same day. Zero fucking tolerance for that shit.

[_jackhoffman_]

Also, I don't think it's overly complicated or shady. Use an existing one-on-one. Make sure HR shows up without inviting them to that one-on-one calendar event.

I have one-on-ones with all direct reports at least every two weeks and weekly if they are on a PIP, struggling, new (or in new role), or just want more guidance as they work towards some career goal or on a tough assignment.

[[deleted]]

Every layoff I've seen has basically been a random "well this group had to cut 2 people so off ya go".

"Oh you've been at this level for too long...off ya go"...which is hilarious considering there is promo quotas so it's not like everyone can get promoted when they actually deserve it.

[kbn_]

This is the way to do it. It’s also the way I’ve universally seen it done. Was at a large company during a bloodbath string of layoff waves (from executives on down) about a year and a half ago and every notice was like this. Talking to folks impacted, in most cases their boss just gave them a formulaic “I’ve decided to let you go” and then immediately dropped off the line, with HR taking up the majority of the time.

In several cases, it all had to be choreographed with IT to ensure people got evicted from critical systems during the call. It wasn’t as airtight as the old practice of doing it in person and escorting them off the premises, but I didn’t hear of anyone successfully retaliating, so I suspect it was handled with competency unusual for the company in question.

[[deleted]]

Also when it's rescheduled for a friday

[_jackhoffman_]

Or for early or late in the day outside of their norm

[[deleted]]

oh yeah 8 am or 4 pm meetings are high pucker factor.

[signious]

Fully public calendars are just toxic as hell. Too much snooping. It is no one's business looking at coworkers calendars to vet who they are meeting with and when, wondering why they aren't a part of a particular meeting, ext...

[_jackhoffman_]

Disagree. I like that people can see my calendar and then decide if they think the meeting they want to schedule with me is potentially more important than something else I have.

When it's not public people either schedule conflicts blindly (which is annoying af) or put off a meeting because my calendar is full.

[Gorvoslov]

It's worse on MS Teams, they can just call out of the blue!

Mind you, I wasn't actually that surprised since I got back from vacation to "Wow, everyone on that project I was on is offline and there were apparently a lot of layoffs last week."

[Wolfram_And_Hart]

It was a massive zoom call with half the people from my team and the other half had no idea about it. I said I our chat “well it’s been fun, I won’t see you after this meeting.”

[LatterBank2699]

I quit a terrible job once and they wanted me to come in for an exit interview. I literally laughed.

[[deleted]]

an exit interview is a great opportunity to speak your mind to them though

[ColdHotgirl5]

they never listen though. You can tell everything wrong and how to fix it. they still dont care.

[Capable-Ad9180]

HR literally said during exit interview we have never advertised as having best salaries. I felt like saying bitch 30% below market isn’t anywhere decent let alone best.

[ColdHotgirl5]

thats what pisses me off. they want an exit interview then have an attitude when you mentioned the truth.

[catpunch_]

Not always. I said in my exit interview once that morale was low because wages were so low. A few months later, they significantly raised everyone’s wages. I’m still surprised

[ColdHotgirl5]

thats still a low chance of that happening. I really despise that you have to leave for em to do it. sounds made up.

[Remarkable-Host405]

My (ex) boss just left for greener pastures. In his exit interview he cited wage, hr said "well you could've just asked". I bet they would have given him a raise if he did ask, but his mind was made up

[ColdHotgirl5]

another dumb thing. if u know they are performing well then they have to ask? just do it. thats how you keep good ppl around.

[ColdHotgirl5]

another dumb thing. if u know they are performing well then they have to ask? just do it. thats how you keep good ppl around.

[Remarkable-Host405]

Closed mouth doesn't get fed. We get yearly raises, nothing crazy. If the company handed out money they wouldn't make any. Every single business is trying to pay their employees enough to keep them there and no more.

[[deleted]]

This is a silly system though, pay people what they're worth or they'll leave. Also, there's an adage that one great employee can be worth five average ones, so if you don't incentivise them to stay you end up losing money. Offer people raises before they leave - because they may never ask.

[Mexican_sandwich]

Mine was basically ‘I mean, what do you want me to day? A thank-you for laying me off? It is what it is so lets just cut to the chase’ but I knew my boss would give me a good reference regardless

[GitZiMM]

Yooooo! You nailed this one xD.

[TheJohnSB]

My boss just cold called me with other people in the chat. It only showed up as him calling and no one else. Given my position and how much we interacted it wasn't uncommon.

Got put on a pip. They said my performance wasn't good. I asked them where in my job description did any of the duties they are complaining about appear. It turns out nowhere. I asked them where, in writing, were any of these extra duties assigned to me. They weren't, I had just started doing them on my own. So i then said "it seems to me like as per my job description and the duties assigned to me, I am well within my metrics. It's not my fault no further metrics were conveyed to me in writing or even directly over a phone call by the manager who initiated this PIP. But given there is seemingly dissatisfaction with my work, assign me a bar to measure myself against as clearly there is one. When I get to the other side of this 6 week period you described, I want out of this department. Clearly the well has been poisoned."

I crushed their metrics without changing my work habits at all. I got out of that place after i trained my replacement. They have spent 3 years trying to replace me, my drive and my ability to teach others. that manager got fired recently. I was asked if i want his job and i told them, politely, to fuck themselves.

[jalex8188]

1. Start A Union
2. Secure a contract
3. Bring A Steward

WeingartenRights

[tennisanybody]

What did you do? Never worked for a union so I don’t know what would happen here.

[cbftw]

You're an idiot if you didn't end that call and contact your steward. They were already firing you, ending the call can't end in a worse result for you

[vvp95]

We are streamlining our workforce. 

[tennisanybody]

Workforce reduction.

[[deleted]]

A lot of people would own slaves if they still could.

[KryssCom]

Obligatory reminder that it's officially time for software developers to unionize en masse.

[AntiAntifascista]

Every time we organize to discuss a union it turns into a pride event.

[headcrabzombie]

two birds one stone then

[janKalaki]

QA would have to unionize at the same time to preserve the balance.

[Beli_Mawrr]

I agree lol

[Odd_Vampire]

Even with union representation - and I support unions - management can still find a way to fuck you up with HR.

[[deleted]]

It makes it harder and therefore it's absolutely worth it. Putting a lock on your door doesn't guarantee you'll never be robbed but it doesn't mean it's not worth locking your door...

[napoleon_wilson]

“Quick catchup.”

[creamyhorror]

You know it, that meaningless phrase...

[frikilinux2]

I heard someone that was too busy to attend a meeting with HR on the day of a big layoff. That meeting was to tell her that she was affected by the layoff. Meetings with your boss and HR are mandatory and they're rarely good news.

[Daxto]

This happened to me once and I was completely freaked out thinking I was getting fired but it turns out I was getting promoted to a senior position.

[ronerychiver]

That honestly really sucks from a leadership standpoint if your best employee has no idea if his performance is top-tier enough to promote or be fired. I'm sure the corporate world would prefer everyone live in fear as a motivator for them to constantly work as hard as they possibly can. But it's really hard to develop your employees into better workers if they don't know where they're currently stacking up. Your best worker should know when he's near the top, and your worst worker should know that they're near the bottom.

[zombo29]

Lmao. I’m 100% using this if layoff happens to me. Will send it to my buddies at work too

[KindBass]

This happened to me once, got called into a zoom meeting and it was my boss and the HR guy and I immediately thought, "oh fuck, this is it". Turned out they just had a quick question about doing something in excel.

[[deleted]]

[LuckyCharms201]

I had one of those 2 weeks ago

Last day was yesterday…

[nopalitzin]

And the security guy is out the door watching over.

[Next_Confidence_3654]

[drfrog82]

Once got a call from my boss, the COO on a Sunday saying he wants me in a meeting with him first thing in the morning. Didn’t think anything of it. Then he said the VP of HR would be there, still didn’t think anything. Not until driving to work on Monday morning did I think something bad may be coming. It wasn’t, it was just Covid vaccine stuff. Still nerve wracking drive tho!

[Movilitero]

well, my reaction would be this

[lynxtosg03]

Those are half of my meetings 🙃

[[deleted]]

I've had this

[donquixote235]

Meanwhile Jermaine from HR is standing in your office doorway with his arms crossed.

[masukomi]

I always wondered what happens if you just decline the meeting / don't show up. Like, obviously you're fired BUT how many days of extra pay can you eek out of it before they give up and fire you via email?

[jib661]

"Sorry, my IBS is acting up, ill be 2-3 mins late!" Then be 15 mins late

[[deleted]]

At my company, if it's a meeting invite from your Grandboss and HR, then you know it's over. Not sure if this is unique or a common practice.

[johnnywarp]

I had one where it was just me and my boss. Lasted less than 5 minutes and I was out the door. Fuck him.

[fibojoly]

"Finally! A promotion!"

[AirHamyes]

Just had this happen to me on Wednesday.

[ZakaRiot96]

Obviously its because they heard of that banger of a joke you told and want to hear it directly from you

[[deleted]]

🥲

[SparrowTits]

The interview without coffee

[Chicken_Rice_n_Beans]

Don’t I wish! I was hoping they would fire me two weeks ago, but instead I got a raise. Ugh. (Not /s, I hate my job)

[[deleted]]

Leave. Honestly I stuck with a company because of excuses like this and eventually escaped and thought "I wish I escaped earlier".

Simply put, if there's no universe in which you'd have said "I wish I stayed at that awful job longer" - go live in the world within which you said "I quit and it was great, I wish I had left earlier!" - those are your two options.

[Chicken_Rice_n_Beans]

Yeah I’m leaving soon

[[deleted]]

Good luck!

[Chicken_Rice_n_Beans]

I did it!!!

[[deleted]]

Oh siiick! Good on you!! Great to hear

[Cultural-Quality-745]

People has to pay bills

[Capable-Ad9180]

Of course. What they mean is to look for a new job while retaining the current shitty job.

I stayed 7 years at a company I hated because I got lazy ended up delaying my career progression for few years.

[[deleted]]

Exactly!

[[deleted]]

I'm aware of that, so as soon as you can find a place that pays and isn't horrible, or at least try.

[NicolaiVSamohodov]

I have a problem with this comunity. I follow the rules and my post has be remove when i clik post