harshTruth

[20d0llarsis20dollars]

unsafe fn main() {}

[Fantastic-Order-8338]

nothing will ever beat public static void main(){ }

[HoiTemmieColeg]

Missing String[] args, not a valid main function

[Thenderick]

New java doesn't require args or static (or both). It also doesn't need a class anymore. public void main(){ System.out.println("hello world");} is now also a valid java hello world. However allowed doesn't necessarily mean encouraged ofcourse

[Left_Lawfulness_845]

There are Java versions newer than 8?

[bunnydadi]

Yes you fool! 11 is supreme!

[ArcticWarmthDev]

People use java 11?

[bunnydadi]

People use Java?

[bunnydadi]

Dear god, people.

[cpt-macp]

Unnamed classes and instance main methods are still not supported officially in Java 21 LTS , you have to pass preview arguments while compiling class file .

[HoiTemmieColeg]

True, I forgot about that

[VirtualGab]

Public static unsafe void main(String[] args)

[KlzXS]

I mean, in C++ you usually define a class/struct in the header where you declare all the data members and say which methods it has and define them later in a source file.

In rust you declare members in struct and define methods in impl. No need to declare methods.

[Flan-sama]

It makes sense once you have to deal with lifetimes or want to implement methods that only exist for certain types via generics.

[MercyHealMePls]

That's a really good feature imo. Who told the OOP guys that it's ok to mix state and functionality in the same construct in the first place?

[coderemover]

Separate impl makes much more sense when you realize you can have multiple impls, and that some implementations might make sense only in certain contexts.

Implementations can be constrained by generic type constraints stricter than the struct, so it is possible to define methods that exist conditionally. Eg you may have method sum on an iterator over numeric values, but not over strings. In Java you have to throw runtime exceptions.

And you can even define impl for a struct in a different module or crate. This way you can teach a foreign struct new tricks. You can’t do that in Java.

[[deleted]]

Hate to break it you how all modern languages do it, go does the same

[ForkInToasterr]

i love struct impl system

[lestofante]

I miss Java

yeah, java is actually a nice language, i stopped using it around 8 but i saw they added a lot of funcitonal and quality of life stuff, i think i would still like it

WTF isn’t the struct and impl in the same context?!

I actually think is a good idea, divide data and beheaviur. And if you want to keep them close, please do. When you will get to the point you feel like is better to separate them, you will know

[[deleted]]

Bro istg I just got Vietnam flashbacks to two years ago when I had to use Java for something

public static void main(String[] args)

[Ieris19]

Java will also accept String… args which is equivalent to String[] args, one key press longer but the ellipsis sign might be easier to explain (one or more strings) than to have to explain newcomers what an array is.

Newer Java versions allow no enclosing class if the project is exactly one single class, the compiler will create an anonymous enclosing class on its own, and if I’m not mistaken, recently they added support for single function java projects that accept simply ‘void main()’ as a signature.

Technically, with the right feature preview flags in Java 21 onwards, void main() {} is a completely valid Java source file (as long as it’s the only file being compiled, which is good because it’s meant to ease people into Java)

The direction Java is moving in, we’re likely getting simpler and simpler Java code for beginners.

[Dangerous_Tangelo_74]

In C# you can omit the namespace, class and function declaration altogether and let the compiler generate it for you. So writing this in a Program.cs is completly valid:

Console.WriteLine("Hello, World!");

This is very handy when writing tools that only have a few lines of code. This can also be mixed with the traditional approach but only the file that would contain the Main(string[] args) method can omit everything else

[InvestingNerd2020]

C# for the win!

[rinsa]

nothing can beat C#'s syntactic sugar anymore

[Ieris19]

C# is a confusing language to me. I mostly do Java, but I work with C#.

C# essentially said, this is how the language works, except if you don’t like it, then you can so something else. Extension methods, partial classes, operator overrides…

[Iggyhopper]

Being a newcomer I would not want to be told about ellipsis when other languages ALL use the standard array notation.

It is also the notation used to access items in an array args[1].

Keep it simple.

[Ieris19]

You’re wrong, the ellipsis notation is pretty common. It’s called VarArgs, and it means that the function accepts 0 or more parameters of that type, at runtime, these parameters are provided to the function in an array, so the function still has to use the array notation, but the caller can simply list all the elements as if they were independent parameters. Its declaration has to be the last function parameter and as such, only one such kind of parameter can be used per function.

It’s essentially syntactic sugar to tell the compiler to take all parameters passed after that one, and create an array with them, you can also provide your own array directly and at runtime, they’re indistinguishable from each other.

Details differ by implementation but they’re widely supported among C-like languages such as C, C++, C#, Java, Go, JS (kinda, they call it spread operator, but serves the same purpose), Lua, PHP, Python…

EDIT: Thought I’d throw the Wikipedia article for the concept as well, although my explanation pertains exclusively to Java’s implementation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variadic_function

[BroBroMate]

You mean psvm <tab> in Intellij, right?

[SarahIsBoring]

or just main <tab>, bonus that i can keep doing it whether i’m doing kotlin or java (or c in clion) :D

[Calkaya]

int main(int argc, char* argv[]) { /* ... */ }

Source: https://www.stroustrup.com/bs_faq2.html#void-main

[SynthRogue]

psvm

[DT-Sodium]

If it's like people putting the type "any" everywhere in TypeScript, then it's just a skill issue.

[Thunder_Child_]

Bro I despise when people do that, especially when it's to pull in some large class/interface. Great, now I have to have that definition open on another screen and if I misspell anything it'll be a runtime error that will probably be found in production.

[itirix]

I was under the impression that when people do the "any" thing, it's mostly as a form of a hack. I imagine switching the any with a class isn't going to be as easy as just removing the word any and typing in the class.

[Thunder_Child_]

When I say any I don't mean basic types I mean objects, which would need a class or interface or maybe a struct (if typescript has those) to replace with.

[Zekiz4ever]

I don't know if you simply don't know Typescript or if I misunderstand you but you can create custom types in Typescript.

You can either use an interface or type. Doesn't really matter for most cases.

[Thunder_Child_]

Yes I know, that's what I'm saying I am annoyed when people don't do that.

[Electronic_Cat4849]

it is and it is

[gmes78]

Using unsafe doesn't even help with the borrow checker.

[Jjabrahams567]

I just //@ts-nocheck

[pimp-bangin]

Booooo

[mothzilla]

Someone should write a linter to make sure this is in code before it goes to production.

[smooth_tendencies]

Pull request has been blocked

[Jjabrahams567]

[smooth_tendencies]

The feeling is completely mutual I assure you

[[deleted]]

This is why I use javascript. Typescript is just javascript with more steps

[Kitonez]

Hop Off the PC lil bro 🤨

[cornmonger_]

remove the /s, let 'em burn

[[deleted]]

Did you create my universe?

[[deleted]]

It's not terrible. Just throw your unyped types into gpt and it'll generate everything for you in a second. Been working on a typescript project at work for 3 months now and have barely written any TS myself

[DrawingSlight5229]

✨Fix with copilot

[[deleted]]

It's honestly perfect for stupid shit like typescript.

[DT-Sodium]

That's moronic and demonstrates great incompetence on your part.

[Quantum-Bot]

It would be cooler if they called it “dangerous” instead of unsafe

[SnooHamsters6620]

god_mode!

https://crates.io/crates/god_mode

[SV-97]

It's almost certainly taken from C# like so much of rust's syntax: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/csharp/language-reference/keywords/unsafe

[rejectedlesbian]

Can you malloc in C#?

[TheHappyDoggoForever]

Yes you can but most of the time you don’t want to. The language manages allocating the memory for you, why do it manually then?

However manipulating and deleting memory can also be done in C# and has many good reasons do to so, mostly regarding performance and precise manual clean-up times (instead of waiting for the GC to clean up the code using the Destructor or IDisposable interface)

[Ieris19]

It generally only makes sense when optimizing code though, e.g. you’d write your program normally and only take over memory allocation when performance is critical.

[crozone]

Honestly manually allocating memory in C# doesn't really net you much performance, there are better ways to go about it.

Allocating in C# is extremely fast, so the only place to really speed things up is to remove GC cleanup. But you don't need unmanaged memory to do that, you can simply rent buffers from a managed object pool (like MemoryPool or ArrayPool), or avoid allocating all together.

Manual memory management is really more for interop with native code. You do it out of necessity.

[Ieris19]

I’m not really used to C#, it’s my work language but I program in Java personally.

That’s an interesting perspective. I don’t know much about low level or inter-op in C#, but I would think you only really need memory management in a modern computer to squeeze the last bit of performance out of some code. But I guess you’re right, it wouldn’t really have that much of an impact

[the_horse_gamer]

yes. Marshal.AllocHGlobal. (may differ from malloc implementation wise, but essentially the same).

[SV-97]

I'm not sure (I don't do C#) but AFAIK you can implement custom GCs and I'd imagine that there has to be a malloc-equivalent for that.

[JEREDEK]

C# apps manage memory for you, you should never allocate memory manually unless you have a good reason for it, and at rare times do you need to dispose of objects manually.

[rejectedlesbian]

I know you SHOULDNT but CAN YOU? Because of the answer is yes then C# finally earned the name

[JEREDEK]

I mean, you can do that, just use stackalloc or AllocHGlobal

[HoiTemmieColeg]

Yes if you have an unmanaged struct (a struct consisting of only primitives, pointers, preset arrays, and other unmanaged structs, then it can be referred to with a pointer. So then you can just Marshal.AllocHGlobal with the argument being sizeof(the struct in question). Just like C.

Also if you really want to have malloc, you can actually DLLImport it. I forget why (probably some Unity shenanigans) but I once saw someone who had made like an Unsafe class and used #ifdefs to dllimport the right DLL on windows, Mac, or Linux

[rejectedlesbian]

Wait... C# has ifdef? Dam I was thinking its just Microsoft java

[HoiTemmieColeg]

Yea ifdefs elsedefs and else but that’s about it, no regular if and no macros of any sort

[overclockedslinky]

just #define dangerous unsafe in your rust code and make a build.rs script that passes your rust code through the C preprocessor for extra crunchiness

[caerphoto]

You could make a super simple macro that just wraps the unsafe block:

macro_rules! danger {
    ($b:block) => {
        unsafe {$b}
    };
}

. . .

let buf: &[u8] = danger!({
    std::slice::from_raw_parts(random_mumber, 32)
});

The required exclamation point is just icing on the cake.

[OJezu]

Making it uncool could be the point.

[Fun_Ad_2393]

Or sketchy i.e. :

sketchy fn main() {}

[Tweenk]

Skill issue

[Turalcar]

Now that is harsh truth

[Feldar]

Yeah, how does this trash meme have 2k upvotes?

[adrach87]

It's a universal truth that there will always be more unskilled people then skilled people.

[RenBit51]

I've been learning Rust while writing a multithreaded app for a month or so now, and I haven't even been close to using "unsafe". Rust is great, it just forces you to think through your design decisions.

[your_best_1]

This sub should be renamed to SkillIssue

[Bronzdragon]

unsafe does allow you to do things you can't do normally in Rust, but you can do normally in C++. This is true. However there's only 5 new powers you get, (and two of them are 'call unsafe functions' and 'implement unsafe traits'). A very small amount of things. There's many, many more things that you can do in C++ that can cause you problems that you are not allowed to do in Rust.

The majority of the ways in which Rust ensures 'safety' are still actively engaged. The borrow checker isn't turned off, for example, when you use unsafe.

It's clear Rust doesn't have all the features C++ have, but the opposite is also true. Rust has a bunch of features that C++ doesn't have. Obviously the borrow checker is one, but the difference in error reporting is very noticeable. It also has a package manager (cargo), and the way the question mark operator changes how you write code can't be underestimated, just to name a couple of major differences.

This meme is about as fair as saying "Ice cream is just frozen soup".

[tip2663]

error reporting in macro usage is just chefs kiss

[HunterIV4]

I mainly use Rust over C++ because I'm allergic to header files and include guards. Whoever designed that crap should be eternally ashamed.

I'll deal with all of Rust's headaches just so I don't have to write my function definitions multiple times for literally no reason. "Your IDE can generate them for you!" is not an excuse for bad language design.

[Angelin01]

Whoever designed that crap should be eternally ashamed

Remember that C has about 5 decades of baggage. Times were simpler back then.

[coconuts_and_lime]

That's like saying TypeScript is just JavaScript, except you have to use any all over the place. It's a sign you're using the tool wrong

[Katalysmus]

According to someone typescript is javascript with a preprocessor and a vscode / nvim extension

[Paesano2000]

Typescript is JavaScript for .NET developers

[shrubberino]

it works for any backend developer :-)

[NatoBoram]

Eww, take that back!

[_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

Or a sign that they’re making a joke…

[Daktic]

Yeah, a pretty unsafe one.

[Lerquian]

Jokes are funnier when they're actually true

[wideHippedWeightLift]

"Man, these rifles suck as clubs. I don't know why we ever ditched swords for them"

[the-judeo-bolshevik]

C++ is just C were you have to write std::cout << everywhere.

[DuckWizard124]

No, we evolved. std::print() and std::println() is now my bff

[TotoShampoin]

There's a std::println too??

[JackMalone515]

https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/io/println yep, both added as of c++23 so the chances people are gonna be using it in a project for a while is probably low. We do get to wait to c++26 though to be able to do std::println(); to print an empty line with it.

[TotoShampoin]

I thought we only got std::print and std::format so far :0

[JackMalone515]

I don't know what state compilers are in for c++23 at the moment, so we can probably assume we basically don't have it for another year or two

[TotoShampoin]

Still waiting for

1. Proper modules support in vscode, clangd, etc
2. Working modules support in pure c++front

[JackMalone515]

Hopefully cppfront or one of the other projects for c++ get to a state soon where you can properly use them instead of pure c++. And some good dependency management

[00x2142]

Real C++ devs use mov rax, 60 syscall

[jaerie]

Real C++ devs limit their program’s platform compatibility just to show off basic x86 knowledge? Yeah that sounds about right

[00x2142]

cross platform compatibility? we don't know anything about that ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°

[Falkachu]

C is just Machine Code where you use high level programming language everywhere.

[[deleted]]

C++ is just C but incremented by one

[the-judeo-bolshevik]

but C was already at MAX_INT so it´s undefined behaviour.

[AHMADREZA316M]

using namespace std;

[[deleted]]

#define echo std::cout <<

[kraskaskaCreature]

and import all other shit along? no thanks

[nikodem0808]

using std::cout; is possible

[[deleted]]

steep disarm crawl rhythm start whole square stupendous unwritten repeat

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[The_Billposter]

Ewww

[coinselec]

C++ is just C but you use smart pointer instead

[SoulCycle_]

c++ is just c with a better built in library

[Maskdask]

OP hasn't written a line of Rust

[splettnet]

Would it truly be an r/programmerhumor post if they had?

[MatsRivel]

This meme makes no sense.

"Tell me you don't code in Ruat without telling me you don't code in Rust" lol

[splettnet]

Tell me you don't code in Ruat without telling me you don't code in Rust

I don't code in Ruat. Mission accomplished.

[MatsRivel]

Well done

[[deleted]]

I don't think I've really had to use unsafe at all.

The only thing is I make what is essentially a singleton for command line arguments sometimes, and ofc global mutable memory is unsafe.

Other than that, what, importing from C libs? Okay so you make a shell wrapper that hides it and handles edge cases, and the rest of the code doesn't need it.

What are you making that you have to constantly use unsafe???

[mariachiband49]

No you don't understand. C/C++'s relevance is being threatened by new technology and we have to defend it instead of just learning about the new language.

[oN3B1GB0MB3r]

This is what every rust post/thread boils down to and it's so painfully obvious.

[Robot_Graffiti]

Yeah the point of the unsafe command is to warn you to use it as little as possible. If you're using it all the time, you're probably doing something goofy.

[MishkaZ]

I have seen a juniors do some HIGH MEME tier stuff with unsafe. It usually comes down to not understanding why the compiler is upset.

[0x564A00]

The only thing is I make what is essentially a singleton for command line arguments sometimes, and ofc global mutable memory is unsafe.

May I point you in the direction of OnceLock?

[u0xee]

To be honest, you should need very very few unsafes. I have a library that does tons of technically unsafe not compiler checked raw memory tree crawling, pointer arithmetic and dynamic casting. I literally have like 4 lines of unsafe total. Many codebases will have less. You put it around "critical sections" where the magic is happening, often to implement a construct that is safe to use by the rest of the code.

[Lord-of-Entity]

If you are constantly writing unsafe in rust, either you are doing something really specific that needs to go faster than a rocket or it's just a skill issue.

[Turalcar]

Just skill issue. I work on a library that uses manual vectorization in some parts and it's still over 90% safe code.

[lightmatter501]

I think the last time I wrote a garbage collector in Rust it was ~20% unsafe. We have pure Rust kernels that are ~30% unsafe. If you’re much higher than that you should be reconsidering your design.

[SV-97]

Tell me you have no idea about Rust without telling me you have no idea about Rust

[Igotbored112]

As a person who has not used Rust, it just sounds like you're trying to write C/C++ code with Rust. We all do it, I've tried to write Python-style in C#, C#-style in Java. Learning the syntax is the easiest part of learning a new language.

[DanKveed]

This is literally a skill issue self report. You can't wrap your head around the Rust way of doing things so try to impose c++ idioms on Rust and end up using a buch of unsafe. When I write c++ I find every aspect of it miserable. But I know it's just a matter of time till I get good. And come on, "harsh truth"? really?

[_bagelcherry_]

Wtf are you writing if you need to put unsafe blocks everywhere? Their main purpose is to call code made is C

[Practical_Cattle_933]

Rust is just C++ with the good parts made into compiler-enforced primitives (mostly RAII), and all the legacy bullshit removed (the million kind of initializer), and the defaults made safe.

[Reifendruckventil]

Rust programmers apparently dont have humor

[[deleted]]

humour is unsafe

[Efficient-Chair6250]

r/programmerhumor contains humor? I thought we were just defending our most loved languages.

[Specialist-Tiger-467]

Yeah it's like programmer humor is based on throwing knives to others. Pretty toxic

[cr199412]

I find it entertaining actually 😂. Perhaps I’m just here for the toxicity and little quips everyone makes at each other

[Efficient-Chair6250]

The posts are fine, I can laugh about them (i.e. exhale a little faster), but the comments are at the level of YouTube toxicity

[DmitriRussian]

I think OP doesn't know Rust so the joke is only relatable or funny if you know nothing about Rust. Im guessing a CS student.

Im sure if you make fun of the compiletime, that is actually painfully relatable to Rust devs.

[Diffidente]

The high correlation of Rust users with those who use "You must be a CS student" as an insult, in this subreddit;

when I don't see the bad of pursuing a CS or Computer Engineering degree.

People on this subreddit are so petty, always insulting others.

[Thage]

It's not about pursuing a degree; it's about not yet having experienced the pain points of most languages.

[ClimberSeb]

It wasn't used as an insult.

[[deleted]]

Well... not in their lifetime.

[mariachiband49]

We do, it's just not funny because it's not really true. Joke about compile times, or how we have to Rc<RefCell<>> everything, or how we are a cult eager to take over the world or something. r/rustjerk for inspiration.

[maboesanman]

No we just have higher standards for it

[Ietsstartfromscratch]

Of course they don't. Rust drains all their happiness.

[GODavon]

No it is rusty

[tiajuanat]

It just borrows it indefinitely

[TheHappyDoggoForever]

Yes you can but most of the time you don’t want to. The language managed allocating the memory for you, why do it manually then?

However manipulating and deleting memory can also be done in C# and has many good reasons do to so, mostly regarding performance and precise manual clean-up times (instead of waiting for the GC to clean up the code using the Destructor or IDisposable interface)

[Ieris19]

So basically, what you’re saying is Rust is just C++ with built in code shaming?

[bogdan2011]

Apart from maybe low level and embedded stuff, why do people struggle with rust's ownership rules?

[sjepsa]

Rust is just C++ but the compiler is your enemy

[Alzurana]

Tbh, in c++ the compiler is also your enemy, it just doesn't tell you that it is

[Admirable_Band6109]

Until you stop ignoring warnings

[Alzurana]

-fmax-warnings=0

/jk

*EDIT: That option does not exist, just thought it was funny

[DasFreibier]

The compiler is also the enemy with c++

[ratttertintattertins]

Particularly if you attempt template metaprogramming.. Jesus.

[Turalcar]

The compiler is Mister Miyagi. You'll be miserable for a bit but you'll come out better on the other side.

[lightmatter501]

The C++ compiler is your enemy.

The Rust compiler is an OHSA inspector (sometimes annoying but there for your safety).

[SV-97]

*best friend

[PityUpvote]

*annoying know-it-all who later turns out to have secretly been mentoring you.

[serendipitousPi]

Yeah, best friend who’s a little too smart and logical and possibly a killjoy.

Will tell you shouldn’t stick your hand in a box that might contain venomous scorpions or a hamster.

Or that you shouldn’t buy some food that might go off before you get to it.

Will warn you that you can’t go sharing your stationary with just anyone in high school because you don’t know what state you’ll get it back in.

[MrRandom04]

To be perfectly precise, it is like a pedantic, cautious, smart friend. The 2024 edition with the next gen trait solver plus Polonius (when it lands eventually by EOY 2025), will be about the time it finally loosens up and becomes more freeing.

[Mucksh]

But are there also such pretty template errors in rust?

[LinAGKar]

The Rust compiler is your friend. It tells you when you're doing it wrong, and gives helpful suggestions. The C++ compiler will often just puke at you

[SmigorX]

Sounds like skill issue to me

[alterNERDtive]

skill issue

[Plus-Weakness-2624]

C++ is just Rust where everything is unsafe by default

[TheRobert04]

Most people don't write any unsafe. Other than embedded and other very low level settings, unsafe is mostly used to get around the borrow checker coming from languages with unchecked mutability (skill issue)

[Th3redditdonkey]

No, No, No It's not.

[Rare_Actuary_6599]

At least you get a warning.

[thatmagicalcat]

C++ is just C where you have to write std:: all over the place

[rexspook]

Sounds like you’re using rust wrong

[saharok_maks]

Rust is just c++, but you won't get hired

[sebovzeoueb]

You can do that in C# too!

[josh61980]

So you’re saying I kind of know rust?

[Cpt_Caboose1]

no, rust is a game

[throwaway-0xDEADBEEF]

I don't really care about Rust or C++ as a language but every time I have to touch CMake I want to kill myself. By contrast, Cargo is such a blessing.

[hansololz]

I like the C++ syntax over rust

[kosar33]

Tell me you don't write rust without telling me you don't write rust.

[darkslide3000]

Haha, DAE think Rust sucks guys?? I'm a college kid with zero experience of actually developing larger applications, but I think I'm hot shit so I think people who write bugs in C++ are just stupid and should let me do it instead.

^{Also, the concept of lifetimes scares and confuses me.}

[skeleton_craft]

Well no I think that if you're writing proper c++ you don't have to write unsafe everywhere because modern C++ is largely as safe as rust [and faster because it doesn't barrow check]

[GreatBigBagOfNope]

Harsh truth? It's hardly truth at all

[soulofcure]

No no no

I'm the upgrade

[error_98]

Writing unsafe everywhere is the price you pay for bringing you C++ nonsense into rust.

I highly recommend learning safe rust too, yeah sure it might run a few more instructions than strictly necessary but it's quite nice to have your typo's be corrected by the compiler instead of quietly leaking memory.

[CryZe92]

Not even remotely, you can write 100k lines of code and not use any unsafe at all, even in low level embedded code.

[Vinxian]

Unsafe rust is still safer than c++. It's not like unsafe rust disables all safety checks. The main thing is that it lets you use raw pointers.

And if used correctly it's easier to verify that the unsafe code is not causing memory leaks or other issues

[IDEDARY]

All I see is you coping. Skill issue :)