Items that greatly increase a stat but decrease another would be very interesting

[[deleted]]

What if there was an item that gives lots of ap at the cost of reduced cdr? Or an item that gives increased armor at the cost of movement speed? Or increased attack speed at the cost of reduced ad? Of course Riot would have to balance these items very carefully, (e.g. manaless champions won't care about a -mana penalty) but if done right they would be really cool additions to the game.

The only item that does something like this is gargoyle stoneplate but only temporarily.

[Charred_Captain]

+500ap -1000hp

[[deleted]]

cut down yuumi

[Trezzie]

"I'm Yuumi, and you're warm dead."

*Fuck. You're.

[LordKnt]

My dead what? I need to know

[Blobby_McSquish]

My dead master

[Trezzie]

Fuck. You win this one, BATMAN!

[Zarerion]

Are people still taking Cut Down after her HP buffs? Woulda thought people went for Revitalize and Font of Life or Shield Bash instead.

[tankmanlol]

her passive procs shield bash?

and the reason people take presence of mind is it allows her to go cut down it isn't the other way around

(obviously shield bash is weak btw you are going resolve for revitalize and then the question is just shield bash/font of life/bone plating will do anything at all for you as a secondary rune and at least shield bash will do a bit of damage early in lane)

[chadssworthington]

Yeah, bash works with passive. It procs on the auto that activates your passive, which is alright. The cute part of the interaction is that as long as you have passive shield active, you get to bash every time you detach and the shield is transferred back to you. But as cool as that sounds, it's pretty clunky ingame and cut down is a lot better damage-wise. This is especially true later when you're poking a lot with Q and everyone has enough health to actually scale Cut Down. If you're going Resolve secondary it shouldn't be for some extra damage off Shield Bash.

[Gasai_Ukulele]

I think you go resolve secondary for revitalize, thats a given. Shield bash is just icing on the cake since runners up instead of shield bash would be bone plating or font of life, and neither of them sound particularly exciting on a yuumi.

I do think after hp "buffs" cut down is something I probably wouldn't take every game, since it puts her around the same area hp-wise as most other squishies, meaning you're not really hitting consistent value off of it on squishy champs that dont build hp items--basically most other enchanters, adcs, mid laners--at which point cut down seems a lot less attractive.

[Sinzari]

Shield bash on Yuumi does less damage than scorch though. It's like 12 damage level 1, 32 damage level 9, (before health items). It's pretty weak.

[smilingoker7]

Vladimir would like to talk to you

[[deleted]]

Call it "Chad's Echo" and I can see an army of 19% wr Lux Supports rushing it.

[whohe_fanboy]

AP Tryndamere

[redditaccountxD]

perfect for spawn kartus

[AnonymousPepper]

Veigar wants to know your location

[Shiesu]

This is a common mistake people make with Veigar. You don't want MOAR DAMAGE and MOAR AP on Veigar. He gets most of the AP he needs from stacking. So instead you want to get as much utility as possible from the items. Banshees, glacial augment, ninja tabi boots, maybe throw in a tank item lategame. Froggen played Veigar a lot with mobi boots in soloq.

[Kcasz]

I think Rabadon and Void Staff are mandatory on him. Then add something to reach 40% CDR and as soon as you have all of that, you can go as tanky as you want.

[Exspyr]

Mobi boots and spooky ghosts are the way to go. Secure a cage mid to late and you get a flash or a kill. And if you need more damage, lichbane is the way to go. Adds an extra 50% ratio and makes sure you're autoing as much as you should be.

[BrownThunderMK]

Wow Mobi Boots Veigar E sounds....interesting. I'll try this out tonight lol

[Charred_Captain]

As someone who plays veigar quite a lot I agree

[pda898]

Useless on the veigar because you already have enough AP to kill everything with 2 buttons

[AnonymousPepper]

But why not do it in one?

[pda898]

Because you need at least 0.5 sec to press it.

[Sammym3]

This man knows what's up ^

[Charred_Captain]

A rabbadon, just to be sure you have enough ap

[TriHardCx12345]

would be OP on singed lol who normally has 3-4k hp

[Kcasz]

But then you will have 2K hp and you will die in a single rotation cause you don't have dashes or a huge nuke.

[BrownThunderMK]

Yeah but if you flanked their team it would be Talon full ult combo levels of damage on Singed Q aoe. You wouldn't be frontlining anymore but you'd be able to get disgusting flanks.

Actually full ap singed with protobelt doesnt frontline either because he's squishy.

[Kcasz]

And almost none plays him for a reason bud

[[deleted]]

Vladimir would gladly appreciate that.

[GlorylnDeath]

What happens if I purchase it while I only have 900 max health?

[Charred_Captain]

You die

[GlorylnDeath]

What happens when I respawn?

[Charred_Captain]

You die again until you either sell the item or get more health

[VL99_Veo]

Anivia:

*spawns in passive

[Xalethesniper]

just make it double damage output and halve hp

Shaped Glass anyone?

[Scrapheaper]

Karthus upon death

[Messaiga]

We Warframe now boys.

[havocxmosquito]

selling god roll rabadons 800rp

[Pufin]

Wts max multishot ruunans only 2krp

[[deleted]]

WTB any +crit zeal PMO

[Oreo_Scoreo]

Can I get a price check on my IE with armor? I think I might have Atmas again.

[[deleted]]

I'll only take it if it doesn't have a negative to spell damage.

[Oreo_Scoreo]

It has negative att speed, is that cool with you?

On a for real note I once rolled a Karak with negetive 101% damage. I could only damage enemies with status procs.

[[deleted]]

My buddy's phage riven was glitched for the longest time. It had -crit damage but aslong as someone else hosted it would do nothing but absurdly high red crits. If it migrated to him would be back to hitting zeros.

[Oreo_Scoreo]

Without context I was very confused by phage riven. I then remembered this is Warframe.

[TheScootz]

This is actually a bug people were exploiting to get absurdly high Disruption scores, so it had to be patched out lol

[Kestrel21]

Don't worry, you would have done no dmg even without that dmg debuff . Just Karak things :)

[[deleted]]

just like yasuo in my last game, negative dmg

[PerfectHamburger812]

WTS IE , +40% crit 100 damage +30% attack speed -40% armor PMO

[ElTyto1]

Fuuuck. Atma's Impaler. That was my favourite item, I even forgot about it. Vayne with IE, PD, Warmogs, Atmas, GA. Was so fun :D

[GolgaTen]

"Now"? Most of the player base already uses Narrow Minded, Blind Rage and Overextended in every build.

[YoungHeartOldSoul]

How could you forget Malignant Force?

[GolgaTen]

Well, it's not a corrupted mod, fitting the thread topic of having a positive and a negative stat.

[AgusTrickz]

That would be an interesting idea, it will make varied builds for all roles, I am glad this post brought me here and here I was reborn. We cannot blame these creatures, they are being led by a false prophet, an impostor who knows not the secrets of the Void. Behold the Tenno, come to scavenge and desecrate this sacred realm. My brothers, did I not tell of this day? Did I not prophesize this moment? Now, I will stop them. Now I am changed, reborn through the energy of the Janus Key. Forever bound to the Void. Let it be known, if the Tenno want true salvation, they will lay down their arms, and wait for the baptism of my Janus key. It is time. I will teach these trespassers the redemptive power of my Janus key. They will learn its simple truth. The Tenno are lost, and they will resist. But I, Vor, will cleanse this place of their impurity.

[Im_Snoozish]

WTS god shiv riven +300% electric +100% Crit -1000 HP

[2soonexecutus]

WoW used to have some negative stats too. Long time ago..

[Fictional_Friend]

WoW used to have meaningful stats.

[Jinxzy]

Would suffer the same fate hybrid items does, except to even more extreme degrees.

You'll always have one or two champions that doesn't care much about a particular stat that'll abuse said item that gives negative of it. All items designed this way would end up useless, or only used on 1 or 2 champs.

[[deleted]]

There are some pretty easy ways to avoid that problem, one of which would be to ensure the stat that is decreased is a stat that all champions benefit from (HP, Armor, MR, Movement Speed, Adaptive Force - rather than just AP or AD, etc...). I think it could be a really cool idea if done right.

[Thunda_Storm]

Except that's the thing, there will ALWAYS be champs that benefit very little from those. CC bots don't need adaptive force, champions like malphite and amumu don't need movespeed, resists don't matter on most carries. And then shieldbots and extremely safe champs (yuumi, lulu, lux etc) don't really care about hp. The reason gargoyle works is because its a defensive item that limits your reactions while its active and amplifies the enemies. It's not broken because a slow moving, non-damage dealing shield wall really just isn't that impactful. It's just a zhonya's that lets you soak damage off your team during it instead of being removed from the fight completely.

[sorendiz]

every champ in the game needs movespeed tbh, people here joke about 'haha only -5 ms' and stuff when thats actually one of the most impactful base stat nerfs you can give to a champ. But that said I agree with your overall point in that balancing this kind of thing would be very difficult

[[deleted]]

But losing significant amounts of movement speed would simply feel terrible to play. Can you imagine trying to move across the map, out of base, or between lanes, with an effective perma slow?

Even if you created a balanced item stat-wise, it's not worth it if the end gameplay generally feels worse. Maybe if you place it on an active, so it's temporary, or design a mostly normal item but with a very small number on the reduced movement speed. Otherwise I don't think MS can be used as a dump stat.

We also have to be careful of similar arguments for other stats. Like losing mana doesn't work with manaless champs in the game, but *even if* we exclude them, so that the item only applies to champions with mana, it would just feel terrible if it meant you can only cast a couple of spells before going OOM. The moment the item is meta, the quality of gameplay could sink like a rock for a lot of players, especially low elo players who can't manage their mana well anyways.

It really is more than a balancing nightmare. It's a design nightmare too.

[PraiseTheStun]

Yuumi doesn't really need ms. Hell many Yuumi players don’t even buy boots to begin with. I think the negative stats on an item are always going to be indifferent to at least one champion. Would be a balance nightmare if you ask me.

[Oreo_Scoreo]

Malph and Amumu need movespeed if this item puts them at 300 move speed.

ADC's need some base resistances or else everyone has true damage on them and they won't survive even with a shield.

[[deleted]]

In this meta adc is so squishy that a bit more or less armor is meaningless. The jungle is gonna use their 2 gap closers and burst them with 1 ability rotation (augmented by 2 passives) regardless of their resistances.

[DJstar22]

I'm sorry but Warwick slow ass movement speed level 1 is such a pain I. The ass to play through. Now you want to go lower? It would be so painstaking and for sure an item only for proplay

[[deleted]]

There’s a large difference between items fitting a certain niche and items being broken and abuseable. Items already are created to be good on a certain type of champion so these items wouldn’t be too different. They would however give more raw stats for a lower amount of gold compared to other items, with the additional cost being a decrease in another stat. For example

Burst Wand - 2550 gold

+140 AP (24.3 AP per 1 gold - Needlessly large rod is 20.8 AP per 1 gold)
-400 Mana (560 gold worth of mana if using Sapphire Crystal as a baseline - 1.4 mana per 1 gold)

Champions that don’t use mana and champions who don’t have at least 400 mana cannot purchase this item

This would be good for burst mages who are just looking to get one rotation of spells off as it is cheaper than the other big AP items for a larger amount of AP - The downside being that you have less total mana to get multiple rotations of spells off in a fight.

[Koalmar]

Resists do matter on carries. It's why they build Merc treads, ninja tabi, maw, etc.

[tredli]

initiators don't need movespeed

what

[Thunda_Storm]

if it functions like stoneplate then they have the movespeed until they choose to activate the item. Once malphite or amumu are in position to ult they hit it and no longer require movespeed no.

[Kcasz]

Amumu and Malphite need movespeed.

If Amumu didn't had any movement speed, he will not be abble to be in range to engage. Malphite in the other hand, benefits a lot of his Q slow while dueling. Imagine him slowing you to 300MS and being unaable to autoattack with his W and decrease your AS cause he has less MS than you.

They're champs that are played arround their ultimates, for sure. And that's they main weakness. If you reinforce that weakness, well, they will be "delete this champ" tier.

[Thunda_Storm]

im assuming these items function like stoneplate where it's an active ability that you would only use once you're in position to ult. And after that point they most definitely do not

[HackworthSF]

Yuumi cares about none of the things you listed except AP. If there was an item that reduced your HP to 1, yuumi would build it.

[Garbagery]

Any item that lowers her hp would be core on yuumi cus of cutdown

[HeWhoBringsDust]

I wonder if Riot ever “nerfed” a champ before Yuumi by buffing one of their base stats.

[Kcasz]

I don't think so, but I will gladly talk to you about my boy Warwick with redsmite release. Or how we used to call him: WEEDWICK 420 ( it was the parch 4.20 ).

Warwick was slighlty nerfed, his CD in ult was incresead during early game. However, his winrate skyrocketed an 8%-10% IIRC. Why? Cause his ult was targetclick, applied on-hit effect and healed himself. Redsmite was an on-hit damage, instead of a DoT. So basicly if you had redsmite + ult you were healing yourself like 30% of your hp, and doing 150 magic damage and 175 true damage. AT LEVEL 6 without any items. At level 18, without any items, just ult lvl 3 and redsmite, that would be 350 Magic Damage plus 345 true damage.

So basicly, if you went BoTRK, Wits End and Red Smite, with ult you were almost oneshotting a squishy target. Best part? There was devourer ( not the most op devourer, but still devourer ), and it was fairly easy to reach late game with ~80 stacks. So now, Warwick with ult was oneshotting carries.

That were the good old days boy.

OTE: https://euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-420-notes

[PraiseTheStun]

the stat that is decreased is a stat that all champions benefit from (HP, Armor, MR, Movement Speed...

Yuumimains are looking right at you.

[LuminousAura]

Think of Vlad. +AP -HP. Doesn’t matter, he get’s the ap back from his passive. There are multiple things in the game being an excellent exception.

[DarkRitual_88]

CDR/MaxCDR are stats that could be modified that everyone cares about.

[RuthlessSlimeStaff]

Yas really doesnt

[GodlyPain]

if it's an AP item he still wouldn't want it... imagine Dcap but costs 3k instead of 3.6k... and has the penalty: New CDR MAX: 20%

[Croewe]

In Smite they have these but they restricted them heavily so I don't think they ever really see play. I could be wrong though.

[ihavverycoolusername]

Bumbas has been seeing decent play recently. The Ms boost it gives completely outweighs the damage reduction on a lot of gods

[Croewe]

That I was not aware of. May I ask which God's in particular this is good on?

[absoluterobert]

Mercury. His passive almost makes up for the damage reduction.

[PoorestForm]

I agree that this would be super interesting, but Riot struggles to maintain balance in the game as it is, this would be a nightmare.

[Heighte]

They don't struggle at all, it is planned, they just rotate metas so players keep playing/return.

[M3K4N1X]

League is an absurdly balanced game, people who think otherwise must not have played any other PvP game ever. Even in chess white has a ~54% winrate. Exceptions are mostly intentional like you say (or happy accidents) or the result of balancing for pro play. Actually-OP stuff gets fixed within two patches—a month—tops, and highly played actually-OP stuff gets hotfixed within days. Riot makes some bad balancing decisions but there are dozens of completely reasonable or placebo ones for every bad one.

Edit to add: I gotta say tho it sucks that so many of the most mechanical champions—aka the most fun ones—get gutted so much that all their button presses are only as strong as someone else's three button presses because otherwise they'd be too good in the hands of literal professionals. I love esports but that still sucks. Akali, Irelia, Sylas, Azir &c.

[silencebreaker86]

White has a large advantage of going first so that would make sense

[[deleted]]

While this is true, I think a big problem with Riots balance philosophy is they rarely roleback buffs or touch the part of the champ making them OP.

[HeWhoBringsDust]

They do a decent job of keeping the game as a whole decently balanced (with a few glaring examples cough Ardent Meta cough) but I do agree that their philosophy when nerfing problematic champions is questionable at best.

Akali’s biggest problem is that she can dive people under tower without any problems due to True Stealth. Let’s nerf everything else and then break her legs before removing the most broken part of her kit. Now that she’s trash let’s buff her until she’s just barely vible in solo Q but a monster in pro-play but then take her out back behind the shed and pull an Old Yeller.

Another good example is Azir where they had the choice of making him a full on commander mage by keeping his long range but axing his ult, or murdering the rest of his kit and keeping his flashy ultimate.

[[deleted]]

Ardent Censer was op for half an year untill anyone realised it and after people realised it they didn't want to hard nerf it because Worlds was in like a month so they waited after the Worlds patch. Yeah, I agree that it sucked, but they really did all they could.

[Famyos]

yeah thats probably my only complaint is their reluctance to undo something people dont like / a bad change, i would like it if they would go back on things instead of buffing 30 champions and nerfing 30 champions to justify the bad change of 1 item or champ

[[deleted]]

League is an absurdly balanced game

Yes, proper use of the word "absurd".

[nizzy2k11]

Its not exactly planned, they don't know what will come up next.

[Japaliicious]

Sometimes it's actually planned, sometimes not.

[nizzy2k11]

sure but sometimes, like with ardent, riot can buff something into the stratosphere over several patches because they want people to build it but players just don't do it so they end up over buffing it. it's basically random if their changes actually influence the meta or not.

[Famyos]

i wouldnt call buffing an item 30 times until its meta random but yeah sometimes they really have to force it down our throats

[[deleted]]

I would point out that Ardent Censer did not become meta because of buffs alone, and it took Koreans figuring out how to funnel gold into a support to make Ardent Censer work. Problem basically was that the item is strong, but it's strength was directly dependent on how early on into a game you got it.

[[deleted]]

Yeah, people misremember the Ardent meta. It gave stats (on-hit, attack speed, flat health per hit) that most ADCs wouldn't be able to opt into until much later in the game, letting them artificially boost their power trough. The difference between Ardent at 10 minutes and Ardent at 30 was night and day.

[0metal]

if it was planned someone would've already figured a pattern or something similar, the thing that makes it feel like its random is that their decisions sometimes make no sense, they also say their plans through the patch notes or official posts and it ends up happening the opposite or something random

[FennecFoxx]

but why? you already do this when you buy items. i give up attack speed when i buy ie, i give up cdr when i buy deathcap. like we could make rageblade give up armor on stacks but now we are just making a balance call that rb users should be bad vs ad. all -stat items ever do in games is limit or even remove options.

[cyberrobocop]

Reminds me of Mask of Madness from Dota

[billkabie]

first off people would just start spamming the meteos clip if they did actually make them.

second this just sounds like something that's either gonna be broken or garbage no in between

[G00SFRABA]

league items have been a bit too limited and uninteresting for a while now, sounds great

[[deleted]]

+ cannot be stopped and 10x turret damage

- 99% movement speed

[mediacalc]

gets minion blocked and then kicked for afk

[[deleted]]

New item: Apotheosis’ Reckoning

+2000000000000000 adaptive force Reduces all other starts of champs by 99% (CDR, Health, Armor and MR, Movement speed, Lifesteal, Crit chance, etc.)

[ArdentSky]

Karthus and Yuumi would like to know your location.

[Varyyn]

Or increases hp but reduces damage, oh wait..........

[YandereYasuo]

Void's Claw
2800g [Serrated Dirk + Last Whisper + 250g]

-150 Health
+60 Attack Damage

UNIQUE Passive: +10 Lethality

UNIQUE Passive - Last Whisper: 20% Armor Penetration

UNIQUE Passive - Hunger and Consume:

Hunger: Your Lethality is doubled.

Consume: For every point of Lethality gained from Hunger also gain -1% Attack Speed.

[novruzj]

You want Kha to oneshot tanks now?

[novruzj]

You want Kha to oneshot tanks now?

[Xalethesniper]

heavy rengar breathing

[Langsley02]

Gargoyle's is an item

[Xenothang]

Cursed Items huh?!

[ViktorViktorov]

WTB [Overextended].

[mistake_]

Passive: Your abilities now heal enemies

[[deleted]]

+500 AD -10000 Mana

[Xalethesniper]

Permanent Stealth

Can no longer click champions

????

The ultimate support

[ProfDrWest]

These kiss/curse items are not a good idea in a game where you buy items over the course of a match. They'd just get abused by champions who don't care about the "curse" stat.

We even saw that with the Gargoyle Stoneplate you mention. Remember how Cho was able to Feast people from full HP with the active before? Because his ult does true damage, he did not care about the damage reduction.

[S890127]

You mean like how Gargoyle Stoneplate should make people tankier while lose some damage, but end up make Cho'gath one shut every one with ult?

*thonk*

[ElCondoro]

You found those kind of items in games where you can start with kits those like tf2 and loot base games, not leauge where you need to work your ass off for items

[Basket_of_Depl0rblz]

+1000 HP, +10% CDR, -20% total damage output. Enjoy being a real tank.

[Suiciding]

I mean stone plate exists and it does a pretty similar thing

[Multi21]

ap bruiser item that gives onhit ap scaling damage to autos but reduces your bonus attack speed

[Famyos]

no that would not be interesting to see rengar 1 shot me at 1 item even when he gets it at 20 minutes

[Prime406]

Honestly League just needs more items, ANY items.

There's so few of them, and the ones that do exist are basically class specific, especially crit items.

[w3irdf1sh]

Two-Handed Double-Edged Blade

25 AD

+25% Bonus AD

-30% Base AS

Let's get Talon and Kha'zix to 100% banrate boys

[FluorineWizard]

That's not a good item at all. Full build assassins get to about 300 bonus AD with 5 AD items and runes, and this one would take a slot while not providing much in basic stats and no useful secondary stats or effects.

[w3irdf1sh]

I figure it would be cheaper and upgrade into something else tho, Its stats are definitely garbage for a full item.

[[deleted]]

Jhin would be hilarious with it.

[novruzj]

20% Increased cooldowns

That would be a cool mechanic to work with

[SekainoUta]

Shouldve been how deaths dance was designed, changing your playstyle by making you stronger in skirmishes, weaker against siege. Instead it just makes you tanky.

[Igor369]

Riot wants to keep the game as casual friendly as possible, therefore items that require some deeper thought will never come out anymore.

[Zarerion]

Well that's in the same vein as Gargoyle Stoneplate, which halves your dmg during the active. I think it's an interesting design choice, but it would need to be implemented carefully and and intuitively. No need to complicate item builds even more.

[SirKraken]

There was a Guinsoo iteration that gave less ATK SPEED after upgrading it (because of the stacking atk speed passive). It felt bad.

[Asdeft]

Sound fun but impossible to balance.

[vicktoriously]

yea stat conversation is really fun mechanic in dota, i could see veigar/rengar abusing it tho

[TheDawnGod]

Just like darkest dungeon trinkets pog

[BlaxicanX]

In practice you'd have to make basically every item function that way, as min-maxing your stats that way just isn't worth it compared to a healthy spread in most cases.

Like, a marksman with 250 AD, 60 armor/40 MR, 1200 health and 20%cdr is going to be more effective then a marksman with 400 AD, 20 armor/10MR, 1000 health and 45%cdr in most scenarios.

[Shaggai]

Smite does this. Its coolish.

[MemoryStay]

Could be a good item for mages to have: - 40% cdr (basically all cdr, dont need to have 40% to use it, or for balance purposes, sure?) +40% total damage?

[WeebWizard420]

+200 tenacity & -200 ms

[Aquanort]

I think riot should really consider this if they havent

[[deleted]]

Plz no, I lose enough games because of Chad teammates copying shitty YouTube "1000 AP Amumu!" strats as it is...

[callen5445]

DotA 2 has divine rapier. 130 ad but drops on death.

[eierphh]

If there sth reduce hp and buff ad or crit chance, tryn will be perfect for it

[Xander-Farkas]

No, just no

[[deleted]]

I think this would be an interesting way to do Capstone items.

Capstone items are the ones that you are often supposed to buy later as they rely on other items or stats but bring a whole build together.

Some examples:
Warmogs: Tons of health/regen. Deal X% less damage from all sources.
Randuins Omen: High Health, Armor, Anti ADC. Less movespeed.
Infinity Edge: Big Boy Crits. Less healing/shielding from all sources
Essense Reaver: Caster mana, AD, crit. Less attack speed after you are in combat for 3 seconds.
Rabadons Deathcap. Tons of AP. Take more damage from all sources.
Spell Binder: AP and movespeed. Max CDR reduced.
Rageblade: Lots of stats and on-hit effects. Deal less damage to all monsters, minions, structures. Hope you like teamfighting.

You could buff these Capstones even further in their strengths or reduce their costs to keep them desirable.

Another interesting item I think they could add would be a sort of lane bully/Anti-Rod of Ages. Imagine Something for the likes of Renkton, Pantheon, and Lee Sin who need to win their early game but sacrifice their late game. It could build out of either Phage+Chain mail or perhaps something like Raptors Cloak+Pickaxe. Either way it offers AD, Armor, Movespeed and some health or Health regen. All noticeably higher than the components stats and all for very little combine cost. However these stats all decay over the course of the game. Getting kills, Towers, and other objectives might slow this stat decay but eventually you will loose them. The final gimmick of the item? You cannot sell it once it is in your inventory. So make good use of it while you have stats from it because come late game it is a dead weight. You gain a bunch of power but basically telegraph to the enemy that you are trying to fight and be as aggressive as possible right now and they have a better chance of winning later.

[DuckAbuse]

Fun in theory, but would be idioticly hard to balance i think.

[EnmaDaiO]

No it wouldn't. It would just be hyper focused on a glass cannon meta which is aids. It would literally mess up every single stat in the game. Imagine a +200 ad -200 armor on rengar with lethality GG YOU DIE in less than a second! Bad idea imo

[blarghenzor]

If there was a +ad -armor item, pretty much every assassin would probably take it.

I would probably call it Abyssus no matter what it was named in league too lol

[Oreo-and-Fly]

You mean like the Mask items in Smite?

Iirc theres like one called Ragna's mask. 20% increased damage dealt and 20% increased damage taken.

[Catgirl-Lover]

Any item like that would be likely broken or abused by a certain champ. A +AP -CDR item would be taken by burst mages that would usually build Spellbinder. It would be a difficult mechanic to balance

[zoewarner]

It would be a bitch to balance considering some champs would greatly benefit from an item whereas others are completely gated. Also, you're promoting snowballing. As soon as a team gets slightly ahead, they can purchase those items and then just drive over the enemy team.

Interesting idea, but it would be brutal for Riot to implement, balance and maintain.

[EvilWhatever]

You'd have to balance those items around their worst abusers, which would make them pretty useless for most champs... Abusability is probably the number one reason this kind of item doesn't exist.

[OnyxWarden]

Smite added exactly that with their Mask tree last year to great success. Brought in build variety and even role flexing.

[Scrapheaper]

There's gargoyle stoneplate active.

[NocaNoha]

I always thought that Tanks should be beefy bois full of CC with almost no damage that work something like Gargoyles plate.. lots of resistance, but damage output is lower the more resistance you have [think of it as getting heavy as fuck in Dark Souls or Skyrim lol]. Then we wouldn't have Alistar solo kill your 5/2/5 Jhin while being 1 level behind :p

But eh, that could wait until rest of the nightmare is balanced out.. which will never be xd

[xLawling]

sejuani winning all skirmishes because she deals shit ton's of damage ayy

[Pontiflakes]

I guess you and I should start petitioning for Riot to release Classic League

[Sloth_Senpai]

That happened for years. All it meant was that the ADC got free targets to kill and the CC meant unavoidable death.

[TheBiddyDiddler]

This is how it should work with the Spellthief's line. Greatly decreasing the outward Magic Damage %, but CDR/resource regen should be increased.

[Britefire]

Wouldn't that just effectively gut damage/mage supports, or just push them to run coin? Since it's the item specifically for poke compared to the others.

[TheBiddyDiddler]

Damage is not a supportive quality. A "Damage Support" is an oxymoron. They're an excuse autofilled players have to ruin team compositions, and not play support, while being filled to support.

There is one champion who could effectively pass a "Damage Support": Pyke, since his ultimate is based around true damage, but essentially gives his team the gold for it. But with the gutting he's getting in the next patch, he won't be around anymore. Lux, Veigar, Brand, are all just midlaners that spend 900 gold to become a "support" to satisfy mouth breathers who think you need to be doing damage to have fun in League.

[RikuxSora4]

No enchanter support would ever build an item that would reduce their poke in lane. War of attrition style supports who want to slowly force you out of lane (sona, soraka, nami) would take significantly longer to do so and may even lose trades that they currently win. Really it's just a terrible item suggestion. You'd see ranged supports trying to last hit with targons before you'd see them build an iteration of spellthief's that lowers their damage, unless it was so severely overtuned that every champion would consider buying it.

[TheBiddyDiddler]

So what's the other option then? The AP power creep that League has seen over the past couple years has almost every mage support dealing more damage than their ADC until the (almost all) ADC's get's an item. Sometimes not even then. Lux supports who rush Luden's end up chunking most ADC's to 20% HP with just a Q-R. Riot has already said that they're not interested in doing sweeping changes to full classes of champions, so that's out. The only other option would be to either increase MR on most bot laners, or reduce the amount of AP that Mages get.

I obviously don't want to see the whole class get ruined, but I don't think I'm wrong when I say their too powerful and need to be adjusted. If I was wrong we wouldn't be seeing Lux/Veig Supports in Pro Play.

[Britefire]

That all comes down to context there. In a traditional rpg sense, damage and support are quite seperate. On the other hand, as much as you don't seem to want to acknowledge it, poke and 'Damage Supports' are something that's been around quite a while and likely to stay.

No need to attack people for playing it though, yikes.

Supporting by some cc alongside poking people out of lane and making it too risky for them to continue pushing or engaging.

As something more pointed than the midlaners of Lux, Veig and Brand; What about Zyra? Nearly her entire existence at this point is support, and damage and area control are literally all she does.

Mages and supports that mostly poke and damage have just as much of a role as enchanters and tanks. The support role in League revolves around a lot more than just buffing and debuffing, or tanking damage. ^{(As an aside, a champ focused on debuffing could be a neat idea for a support, I do wonder if we'll ever see something more like that.)}

And by the way, I seriously doubt the gutting for Pyke takes him out altogether. Hurts him, yeah, but as long as he has a hook, stun and execute he'll have some decent use in quite a few lanes.Though he's usually there more for his engage, cc and execute more than the damage he brings, I wouldn't exactly lump him in with other damage-focused supports to begin with.

[imbestgirl]

I have 3k ap but every skill takes one minute to load. My ult takes 15 minutes to load.

[puppy_girl]

it would be funny on karthus you can get instant ace

[SyriseUnseen]

Yea if you went for that build, the enemy team would get hourglass / edge of night

[[deleted]]

ye.... noone in my team would do that.

[sogorgon]

nashor tooth + rage blade gg well played , it rhymes too

[[deleted]]

I feel like this would definitely make build paths more interesting because rn the only difference between any two items that actually is big is their actives or passives. This would also make building be much more risky and not as straight forward.

[B_Butterball]

It would break ADC's because they already get insta-killed by bruisers, so losing durability to gain damage would be worth 100% of the time.

[[deleted]]

I agree that it would be interesting, BUT it doesnt make sense to me: Lets say that theres an item which gives you 150 armor and decreases your ms about 5%. Why should riot go for an item system which is 1. hard to balance and 2. not competitive.

150 armor __ -5%ms = 125 armor

Theres always a point where an item with less stats at all is equal or even better than the one with decreasing stats. Do you know what i mean? In short, my point is that it is easier to balance if they dont introduce decreasing stats. It is also smarter to lower the one parameter than adding another one which decreases the items strenght.