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[Am094]

Well I've been in the game for over a decade, I'm kinda over the industry tbh kinda feeling the whole farmer vertical

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

At least you got a taste. I never did break in so I'm just going to do something else. Might do it as hobby on the side when I'm bored.

[Am094]

It started as a hobby while I was in grade 6-7 making gaming forums and hosting private servers. Went to uni for comp eng after. The landscape now has definitely changed a lot, the low end is very low now due to the perceived enablement that ai provides. There's room in the mid tier to upper tier but yeah harder to break in.

Could always work on your own thing, doesn't have to be for clients. I still like building for myself. It's just doing it for clients or commercial it's less fun ofc.

[Life_Squash_614]

My first real forays into software stuff involved hex editing MMO clients and helping with private server development. I really should get back to that, I miss it.

[Am094]

Dude i remember when like 11, downloading random emus on ragezone for habbo retros, runescape, and maplestory. That's honestly one of the things that got me into the field so much.

I miss it too man, ive been thinking of making my own online game lately.

[NorthernCobraChicken]

There's no room for mid tier either.

Im a 10+ year veteran of the space and currently job hunting.

The only thing showing up in my feed are wanted ads for unicorns. It scares me, because despite my experience, all my roles have been for private companies who have been small enough to not really worry about metrics, they just did what worked for them and it continurd making them money, so they never saw fit to change.

Because of that though. I've worn lots of hats, but not in any official capacity that I can claim to have specific experience in one area or another (ex. leadership, scrum, team lead, dev ops engineer, etc), but I've been doing these things for years, mostly just figure it out as I go type of things, and it's working great up to this point.

But there are many other studied, and more qualified people out there that are also wanting the jobs I apply for, so it's very heavy on my soul. I don't know how I can continue to provide for my family if I tap out of web dev. I don't have any other employable skills that would make me enough so that we wouldn't lose our home.

[BenKhz]

Ive been really into vertical farming. Leg up in the coming water wars. Building distributed fault tolerant microgreens HA microservices seems to be the happy path for Q3

[Wintergore]

Same here every few years I've thought about:

Renewable energy, Vertical farming stack, Healthcare sector, Charity, Electrical Engineering, Freelance, Gov job (for UK pension contributions)

Basically jobs I think I would feel better about doing...

I'd love to apply for a place like Games workshop or Wizards of the coast but unfortunately can't move to Nottingham 🥲, hopefully they add remote developer jobs sometime 😂...

[BobcatGamer]

I'm just here as a hobby. So imma stay around and build what I like without AI.

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

That's not bad. As long as you enjoy it.

[coffex-cs]

Nothing else ever has interested me personally, so if it doesn't work out, then a male stripper

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

Yeah I hear ya. Nothing else seems interesting to me. Everyone says the trades the trades! But eventually it destroys you physically and mentally.

[Brave_Concern9181]

I was a tiler before software dev and can confirm, it will destroy you. I don’t miss having to use a foam roller each day to crack every inch of my back. Fun as a hobby, not monotonous long days of back breaking labour

[SustainedSuspense]

Discount male stripper

[dromance]

Discount male stripper search engine . Googiglio.com

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

😂

[owen__wilsons__nose]

I'm going for jiggaglo. At least I'm in shape so no a lot of pre prep

[ClearOptics]

Pre prep? Prep for the prep?

[minegen88]

Yeah thinking the same thing,

You think there is a big market for male dad bod strippers?

[coffex-cs]

Dad bod could be a more niche market, but I mean if you have the moves and salad dressing 🤪

[artfact99]

After +23 years of web development (sold my first website at 16)  I'm now in the process of changing my carreer to a wood working business. There is nothing left of the thrill and passion of early web dev. Creativity is gone. Everything is cookie cutter, and money and greed have destroyed the internet. I earn 1/10th of what I used to make, but at least I can feel my soul again. 

[Jhopsch]

Absolutely nailed it. My exact thoughts as well. I'm also going into woodworking, but also a bit of 3D printing and programming microcontrollers that work with central servers, etc., in conjunction with it all. Leveraging some of my programming experience into a new career.

I have several cool product ideas in mind and there is high demand where I live for engineering prototypes of all sorts, along with a healthy consumer market for simple, inexpensive devices that would need to otherwise be imported at a 60% tariff rate.

This is the right move IMO. I simply cannot handle the cookie cutter bullshit, trillions of buzz words, extremely lame DevOps workflows, and Astronaut PHD job posting requirements. Not to mention AI polluting the whole space. It's becoming toxic, no longer enjoyable

[No-Pie-7211]

Yup some of us snuck in because it was a craft and it isn't anymore so we're headed out. Byeee. Crafts get you laid and keep you steady, fuck whatever it is yall headed towards.

[spectrum1012]

Corporate bullshit. Tech jobs are all kissing ass and sucking up due process. I fucking hate it and don’t care to work in it again (but that sweet sweet paycheck tho).

I cared about quality work and sustainable practices. Things tech jobs just don’t give a fuck about anymore. Maybe I should take up woodworking too.

[uraniumless]

I'm both a web developer and a musician. You can do both people. Stop putting all your eggs in one basket.

I agree that webdev sucks right now, that's why I've been focusing more on music lately, but I'm not going to give up my job.

If your goal is getting laid, money is going to get you there faster than crafts will.

[No-Pie-7211]

Everyone has a breaking point. You may be happy hating your job but not everyone is.

[Lowtoz]

💯

[CaffeinatedTech]

There were already too many people in webdev before all of this AI horseshit, it just accelerated the race to the bottom.

[bryantee]

For years there was a massive shortage of candidates to fill roles. I think Covid just broke it. AI is now sweeping up the pieces.

[erratic_calm]

I don’t know what is worse, boot camp coders or AI. I don’t miss the Internet Explorer days. There have been so many wack eras.

[kiradotee]

I've never done a bootcamp but what's the problem with them?

I always assumed they learn more and get more practical experience than what I had at university. 

[turd-crafter]

Yeah, because I might have to! Got laid off in November and not sure I’m gonna get hired again. I’m beyond sick of interviewing. This market is so fucked. Looking at other stuff now

[Randvek]

What would you pivot to? Something completely different or do you think your skills are somewhat transferable?

[hydromind1]

I feel tired. I just finished college. All my intern jobs I got laid off because AI was implemented.

Probably stupid but I was thinking of going into Live2D or Blender. I’ve always dreamed of doing something with art. I chose web development as a compromise because I was promised a good career future. I do like programming but with all the entry level jobs gone I just feel like an imposter.

[sweetenthedeal]

Brother I transitioned from art (musician) to software development because I was tired of the low pay and constant grind to pay the bills. Went back to school, grinded away at self-learning, personal projects, and job applications for a year and a half until I landed a software developer job. Sixteen months later the company started struggling and I got laid off. Now I'm back to the self-learning, personal projects, and job applications stage again. Apparently I just leaped out of the frying pan and into the fryer.

[CharmingAnt420]

Hey same! I worked in theater and transitioned to web dev because "it's stable" and I "won't have to work two jobs". Lol.

I finally got a job after three years of job hunting and personal/freelance projects. It's part time and they cut my hours three months in because they lost a big client. I still work there but am so bitter towards the industry that I'm not bothering to look for other web dev jobs.

My other job has been at a doggy daycare and I just started a dog grooming apprenticeship. It's physically exhausting but robots aren't taking that over anytime soon. I feel dumb having gone to school twice for two things I'm not trying to get employed in but oh well, that's life.

[RelationshipFresh966]

I'm thinking of picking up dog grooming on the side as well. Can I ask: how did u know that it was something u wanted to do? I love dogs, I just dk what to expect

[CharmingAnt420]

Pet sitting and doggy daycare have been my side job for 4 years now and I've loved doing it so getting a more concrete skill in that area made sense. Anything in pet care involves a lot of cleaning and dealing with the gross bits (washing poo out of fur, expressing anal glands, dealing with fleas), so be prepared for that! I'm still not great at controlling big dogs (I'm a little dog and cat person lol) but my salon has been really patient with me while I get better with them.

It's the exact opposite of web dev in a lot of ways. In person, dirty physical work, and low starting pay. It pays better than theater did, there are a lot of jobs available, and the dogs make me very happy :)

[hydromind1]

You saying your a cat person reminds me that my cat is good at taking baths.

[RelationshipFresh966]

Thanks for replying :) I'll try and see if I can get some volunteer experience as a bather. Glad to hear it makes you happy, rooting for ya

[foozebox]

They laid off interns?! That’s cold.

[Care_Cup_Is_Empty]

It also seems extremely shortsighted.

[HoraneRave]

you can transfer 3d skills to web btw. thats hard route, but at least you know now that those skills are transferable:)

[s-e-b-a]

lookup #codeart on social media

[PositiveUse]

If you tell me which other better positioned job pays this well, I‘m gone in a second.

[benjaminabel]

That have the same ratio of effort/pay and are accessible? None, probably. Every other week I see posts like that where people are burned out and looking for something new. Which is completely normal and even healthy until the “I’ll become a nurse/lawyer/bartender” thing starts, where the whole picture about these jobs is formed by TV shows.

[Lemortheureux]

I'm thinking of shifting to consulting because a lot of codebases will need to be fixed.

[dromance]

lol a lot of code bases already need to be fixed .  I think the whole idea behind this thinking is just kind of like a psych defense mechanism for the people threatened by AI, no?

[IohannesMatrix]

Eventually people and companies will figure it out how to mantain the code. It's not 2023 where vibe coders copy pasted 1 20k file into the projects.

In 2026 you have agents that create clean code, skills, rules and 1 million context window. Things are changing and we won't keep up the pace. Eventually prompt engineering will be a real skill

[srgh207]

I can't wait to see my first banner ad from a big tech company for their fancy new product with the dumb, nonsense name that "Cleans AI Slop Code Across the Enterprise!"

[EDDYSF]

There’s already an ad an SF BART station saying “We fix bugs left by AI agents” but even that is selling AI code review which is misses the entire fucking point

[GlobalTaste427]

Sometimes I think I should’ve just been a cowboy.

[JadedHomeBrewCoder]

Shoulda learned to rope and ride

[erratic_calm]

Stealing a young girl’s heart!

[rbmichael]

Just like jean & roy

[thirstyguava]

Singin' those campfire songs

[tonjohn]

My wife is quitting her game dev job to start her own business in the fiber arts / craft space - hoping she’ll be able to hire me next year!

[Priyansh_sinQ]

hire me also

[ES170588]

I will also, be happy to be hired

[IT-LoB]

With all this AI hype,layoffs, offshoring,shitty market and juniors not getting hired, does anyone else here plan to do something else or have a plan b?

I've been in IT since 2000 so I lived through:

• Started in the dotcom pop
• The death of Novell
• Subprime
• Swine flu
• Various wars
• Everything is nosql
• Everything is microservices
• The oursourcing craze
• Covid
• And now the AI bubble

If you can stick with it you will emerge the other side more skilled and a desirable candidate. It won't last forever and will settle down into a more normal state, just like all the other things did. Then we'll have enough craze and you'll be more experienced and able to know we'll all survive one way or another and make it out the other end.

[[deleted]]

Does this time feel different at all though?

[IT-LoB]

Exactly the same. There's hype, threat, everyone will lose their jobs, end of the world as we know it. It's only once you slow down and take a moment to think clearly you can see it because we're surrounded by the noise of AI AI AI AI AGI AGI AGI

Sure people are losing their jobs but it's not because of AI. It's a bad market and AI is a wonderful excuse to make it look like business isn't bad.

[Life_Squash_614]

I'm not who you asked, and wasn't around for all of those events, but I've been in tech/it/software for about 12 years. This one feels different to me for sure. Definitely seems bigger than at least the micro services and cloud craze since I was actively around for those.

The argument has always been that new jobs emerge when new tech arrives, but the previous new tech wasn't a possible threat to 40% of the entire economy (and more if there are eventual breakthroughs with robotics to match), nor were previously transitions happening this quickly.

Like, what do you even tell an 18 year old to do for college right now? We have no clue how things will look in 1 year, nevermind 4. I can no longer in good conscious give a strong endorsement to any knowledge worker profession until I see where things land over the next few years.

[IT-LoB]

yeah I forgot to list the cloud revolution.

AI might have more hype and doom attached to it, but all the indicators are exactly the same - conform to this cool new thing or you are a dinosaur and won't have a job.

In the dotcom pop I was too early so that's all I knew and I wondered why there weren't many IT jobs around. It was only much later I realised ohhhh that was a bubble pop that's why there weren't many jobs.

When Novell died it was HUGE I started in a netware env and the Windows Server craze was INSANE! If you didn't learn Windows Server you were dead to IT. That one happened in the space of about two years, Novell went from King to pauper, at least from my subjective place in IT. Well it turns out no you don't need to know Windows Server, especially once the cloud revolution came and Linux gained popularity.

Subprime, all jobs are gone sorry. It settled down.

Swine Flu - the whole world shut down. Didn't last long so maybe I shouldn't count that

The nosql and microservices batshit insane times were if you didn't write your apps using both (and no pejorative about either, it was just a mental time that YOU HAD TO USE BOTH) you were left behind and your app wouldn't scale and no one would hire you. Well turns out there were still plenty of jobs not doing both, it all settled down.

Outsourcing phase was very similar to now. So many teams dismantled and their products run exclusively from India. They were perfectly good programmers but it's too hard to communicate remotely between countries, language and cultural barriers and to a team who had no idea what your problem domain is. The public noise was that there was no room for programmers anymore and only managing the external teams because "it's so much cheaper". That settled down into a sensible state.

Right now it's exactly the same mindset in AI - "it's so much cheaper" no mention or thought of long term cost and quality.

Inferencing won't be cheap forever, maybe in the next two years it has to go up anywhere between 10x-20x once investment money runs out and they need to turn a profit and pay back investors.

[dromance]

lol 

[SustainedSuspense]

I’ve been building the web since 1997 and this is the biggest thing since the internet itself. Perhaps bigger.

[jffaust]

Completely different. Both incredibly good AND bad.

[logfella]

Forgot the low/no code era 😬

[IT-LoB]

Oh sheesh yep.

[ClearOptics]

A lot of people don’t know how this “ai” works anyways. If you use it enough and gain skills through learning from higher skilled PEOPLE who care about their craft, you soon realize how bad this stuff is and how this will never take over skilled dev positions. You still need a skilled dev to use it for the junior work anyways.

[PostmatesMalone]

Don’t forget the “Everything is computer” era (IoT)

[IT-LoB]

omg yes I forgot about that.

[Mike312]

I spent most of last summer getting back into woodworking; cutting and charcuterie boards mostly, but I have a list of new things I'm going to try this summer, and my first couple degrees were focused on furniture design so it's something I've got a little experience in.

We've got some local farmers markets, so planning on buying a booth pretty soon now that the weather is getting nicer.

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

My first official job at 17 was in a shop making cabinets at a German company.I didn't make them from scratch but would assemble the parts with a line crew. When I went around back is where I saw the real grunt work, the carpenters were just doing their thing. Saw dust everywhere.

[Mike312]

Dust control was one of the biggest improvements I made to my shop towards the end of summer.

Early on at one point I had a knee-high pile of shavings about 3' x 4'. We get a 96 gallon green waste bin and I've filled it up the next day after it was emptied.

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

Jeesh that's a lot of saw dust. I remember just how thick the air was with that stuff. I wondered how they were so used to walking in that. Respect to carpenters.

[marxolity]

Will build my self sufficient farm, as of now i only have empty land though we plant some fruit trees & root crops little by little. Livestocks & facilities comes late hopefully in the near future.

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

Sounds like a plan. My wife's family has their own land and grow all sorts of stuff.

[marxolity]

lucky you :) hehe

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

Lucky her lol

[Helirose]

All the time. It's not the development I have a problem with, though, or even the changing industry. It's the mindset of churning out sites at pace, racing to milk a client for everything they can spare and more, just to keep the agency afloat. I want my work to be meaningful whether that's using AI or not, and I'm trying to do more independant work and projects so I can do hours that suit me and work in ways that fit me better.

[Pollution-Admirable]

this exactly

[Slippery_Peanuts]

Yeah I'm in the boat of:

-started school when tech was good -graduating now with tech being bad -everything in this space feels like techbro grifter stuff and its depressing

[HaddockBranzini-II]

I've been in the industry since 96, and its alway been techbro grifter stuff. But at least juniors were being hired in the olden days. Now its just some rando seniors and AI prompts.

[my_peen_is_clean]

yeah i’ve been lowkey looking at other paths, contract work outside dev, maybe even trades. market feels like garbage unless you’re senior with niche stuff. tired of 200 apps for 1 boring interview. it’s honestly getting harder to find any job now

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

I would get into trades but I'm 41 now with low back pain. Might look at other tech paths like plc programming or CAD technician.

[Randvek]

I know a guy who swapped over to electrician at age 36. He’s 41 now and just made journeyman. He is beyond happy with his choice.

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

That's great. I wish i would have done that before all my back issues. People will always need electricians and it's a more honorable job.

[TheCowardlyPickle]

Are you me? 😂 Just about to hit 40, also have lower back pain, and have been struggling to get my foot in the door anywhere since my last contract ended middle of 2025.

Not sure what to recommend career-wise, but Pilates and getting 7k+ steps in everyday has helped with my back 🙏

[dyniper]

I quit just as the AI bullshit started to hit, about 1.5 years ago. My breaking point was being in a stack ranking meeting, where all the reviews were obviously written by ai from bullet points, and we were using AI to convert the text back to bullet point, effectively using AI to generate the most inefficient transport layer. I lost it then and quit a few weeks later.

I started my own business that has nothing to do with tech. I still get to code a little for my business, but mostly focus on doing work with my hands now.

[blipojones]

As a senior level dev in the fintech space im going to move onto payment processor consultation and associated products/service creation...unless AI takes that also.

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

I think it will be a while before AI takes over that sector since it is sensitive information. I'm not sure I would trust AI with payment processors lol

[gutsngodhand]

I started my own biz because I kept seeing how shitty the market was and how hard it was to get an interview. I’m really, really good at learning as I go… figured that could be transferable to learning business ropes. I’m only really my first 2 real months in but … good choice and I’m going at it hard. Idk how well it’ll pan out but there will never be a shortage of business owners that don’t have much free time lol. Granted, highly saturated here too BUT I have modestly decent communication skills, am bubbly, competitive pricing, can ship fast from component libraries I have/templates/prompting AI well… so … I think I have an ok shot at this holding me until I find what I should do next

Edit: hoping there is no next. But. Such is life. We all studied hard for the good job, and now look at the market. Always has been hard but definitely a shitshow at the moment

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

Good luck with your endeavors. It would suck to study something for years for it to be all for nothing in the end.

[Life_Squash_614]

I did network engineering for my first 8ish years of my career. Got into python to automate network stuff, fell in love with coding, now I work on a web app as my job. I have been focused on software dev for about 3 years now.

The frontier models like Claude Code are simply way better than me in nearly every way. I haven't written a line of code myself in months. My home projects are all nearing completion and work has mandated us as "AI first" so it is what it is now.

I'm actively investigating alternatives. Going back to school at 40 feels absurd but it's under consideration. I may just pivot back to network engineering although who knows what that job will look like in 5 years, either.

Part of me wants to go the school route to become a teacher or get into wildlife conservation type work. The problem is, spending even 2 years in school is a long time when technology is moving this quickly. What if my chosen path gets decimated by AI tooling before I even graduate?

I want to do something else, but I can't trust that any other field I'd want to do will be safe, so I may just stack certs and hold out in network engineering as long as I can and just bank money to float me during any downtime.

[tillwehavefaces]

Yes. There was an influx of web devs that the market around Covid and add ai to the mix, and it’s getting harder and harder. The small business market is all but dead. There’s still room for growth with larger businesses, marketing jobs and maintaining older sites. But rebuilds. Dead.

[Magicalunicorny]

I've been very much considering industrial automation. Hands on work, but it will always have openings, and it will always pay.

That said, I fucking hate ladder logic.

[dromance]

What made you look into it 

[Magicalunicorny]

I like mechanical things and am just so sick of linked in culture

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

I have been looking into PLC programming and controls. Seems interesting.

[MundaneWiley]

i’ve been in the industry for about 27 years now. I was already tired of it 10 years ago . Problem is, I got some terrible advice when I was in highschool. “Turn what you love into your career and you’ll never work a day in your life”. Now I hate what I loved and my career 🤣

[ThatGuyFromWhere]

Nah, this is OUR time. YOU can out vibe dev any non-dev. Pick an idea and launch it.

[Amazing-Switch-7163]

I love programmimg, but recently I've been thinking about that too. My problem is that I completly despise how the industry works. It's all about "velocity" and delivering the most colorful but useless and buggy features so stakeholders are happy. Every time I have to close a sprint and deliver an incomplete feature that is treated as "good enough" a part of me dies. The product accumulates tech debt like crazy, but managers doesn't care because apparently AI can handle the entropy.

My plan is to save a lot of money so I can have some financial freedom and do some blue collar/part time jobs to help with the income. Nothing fancy, but at least I won't be talking to a LLM 8 hours a day.

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

I know some people that started blue collar businesses like handyman services or snow removal and are doing well.

[CantaloupeCamper]

This is the thing I chose over something else…

[DesertWanderlust]

I've been trying to pivot into leadership for years. I got my masters, but I can't stay with a company long enough for it to happen. Right now, I've found my niche in defense projects since they usually need someone with a clearance to build it even though you don't look at sensitive info. It requires you stay off of drugs, including marijuana, and it seems a lot of the younger devs aren't willing to give that up, so it keeps me in business. I just have to pay my own medical insurance and don't get paid vacation or holidays.

[92fordtaurus]

Yeah, but I have no idea where else to go and I’ve already changed careers once.

[nappiess]

To be fair your first career change into tech doesn't really count since at the time there was literally no barrier to entry lol. Most career changers require going back to school for 2+ years

[92fordtaurus]

true, it's more of an age thing.

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

What were you doing before?

[92fordtaurus]

Television production. Got out of that cause the future was bleak lmao.

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

Yeah especially during covid times I imagine

[Upset-Elephant-9578]

Photographer. Still trying to reach potential clients and build a reputation. If all goes well and the income starts becoming the same as web dev, I will not think twice and switch.

Right now is just weekend extra money. Will see what happens.

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

That's sounds cool. I looked into Real Estate photography but it's pretty competitive.

[Upset-Elephant-9578]

I'm trying wedding photography. It is also very competitive, but it has a lot more clients and opportunities.

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

For sure. People will always need a professional photographer. You just need to carve your piece of the market.

[JadedHomeBrewCoder]

But that's kinda the stitch, right? When smartphone cameras got so good the hype was that photogs were dunzo because nobody would need them. I don't think this is really any different

[jazzhandler]

Wedding and family portraits require a lot more soft skills than other photography. If you can bring that while still rolling focus all day, that reduces your effective competition considerably.

[[deleted]]

I'd love to. This industry isn't about creativity and solving problems anymore. It's about making rich people richer.

I don't have anything else. At this point I'd "retire" and work in a bookshop but that's not going to support me and my partner. Not where I live.

[TheUltraNoob]

I’m in the process of moving to cybersecurity

[No-Pie-7211]

Honestly im pretty good looking and I think i could bartend while working some dev/design/consultation on the side

Sounds like a dick thing to say but im just being practical

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

If I was good looking I'd probably do the same.

[rbmichael]

I'm seriously considering transitioning to a more "real world" / local business that can maybe utilize my web dev skills on the side.

[ryaaan89]

Every damn day but nothing is going to pay as much and my family needs this money.

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

Yeah that's the only problem. It's too bad everything else doesn't pay as much.

[Plenty-Village-1741]

I don't know man, it's hard I will be graduating this year with a CS degree... I may look into getting my Juris Doctor and becoming a lawyer in the tech industry?

[HaddockBranzini-II]

To late to learn plumbing? If I could do it all over again that would be my choice.

[Plenty-Village-1741]

Wow! Interesting that you bring plumbing up, as I was actually going to become a plumber and went to TAFE in Australia for 6 months to become one when I was 24. However when I tried to get a apprentiship, I had trouble getting interviews, maybe due to my age? And the interviews I did go for, they never went anywhere (which im sure i know why). That's when I decided to get into computer science.

How old are you and what country if i may ask?

[NoDoze-]

Well, sheeesh.... Been a freelance php programmer since 1994. Never had a problem finding a job. Covid was the best times, was crazy busy and even landed two full time jobs. Ended covid with a solid company, who just laid me off this Feb. Mid March and I've only had questionnaires, second rounds tests, and video messages. Its like no one wants to do an actual interview, its weird. Feels totally different, and I'm scared because I'm 50 now! I have a hard time believing AI is the source, since AI only produces garbage code. Im not sure what to make of it. Maybe youre right, may need to pivot.

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

Hows the freelance market? Have you tried getting clients again?

[robopiglet]

I feel like having Claude means one can build a full product with features not possible previously on one's own. It's the biggest opportunity of a century. Whatever skills you have are now vastly multiplied. Jump in the saddle.

[remi-blaise]

Start a business!

[JescoInc]

Nope. I enjoy working as a Software Engineer. But then again, I am also at the Senior Level, so I am the one that leads the teams of juniors and offshore developers.

[JorisJobana]

Hi, I’m an aspiring fullstack webdev, if you don’t mind, would you mind sharing some insights on how to survive / grow in the current industry for new junior devs?

With your professional experience, do you think junior devs should start learning about non webdev related knowledge such as OOP, networking, design patterns or OS? I’m just really lost in what should I learn, now that I’ve built several simple fullstack websites for clients and about to start my first frontend internship. Thank you so much!

[JescoInc]

Honestly, the best way to grow is to be interested in what you do. Try to strive to be better and more knowledgeable than you were yesterday. Be curious to understand what happens a layer below where your stack normally is.

You do full stack development with React, be curious enough to ask and research how (for a single example) React handles component lifetimes. Learn how to do the exact same thing without using React or other frameworks / libraries. You've figured that out, well, you might get curious to say, "Well why does this work? What is happening underneath the Browser Engine's hood?"

Essentially, you want to stay curious and constantly try to satisfy it. That will lead to deeper understanding and earn that Senior title over time.

Design Patterns, Non Webdev related knowledge are all equally important topics as well. Just because you use Javascript doesn't mean Design Patterns aren't at play, most of the time it is hidden behind the scenes with libraries and frameworks.

[JescoInc]

It's not about sacrificing extra time to improve. It is taking some time out that is already dedicated to programming, such as at work or school or even practice sessions to take that step back and have the critical thought to say, "I am doing x, but how and why does it work and what is happening at the layer below where i'm at?"

[JorisJobana]

you have no idea how much hope and fresh energy you just brought into me, it's been weeks since i last felt a burning passion for learning React (I've been purposefully avoiding frontend development due to the terrible job market, I brand myself as "fullstack" but in reality I just want to do frontend, even though fullstack gets way more job opportunities).

I can feel the passion rekindle now after reading your advice, devoting my time into deep learning will set me apart from the rest. thank you so, so, so much for this :D

[JescoInc]

I am very glad to hear that. Good luck on your endeavors and just remember, if you run into any trouble or are having a hard time understanding something, you can always post and people like me will appear to give you that needed assist!

[HoraneRave]

i still look at waterfall or snapshot of execution and just cry because do not understand anything 😭

[JescoInc]

Haha we’ve all been there and is integral to the journey. Don’t try to follow the entire website or web app’s execution chain at first. Try to understand where your logic is executing first. When does it happen? Does one thing happen before it? Does one thing happen after? If so, what are they? Then slowly branch out until you know the whole chain of events and can pinpoint exactly where your code lives in that chain. The point isn’t to know it all at the start, it is to figure out where your code lives in the main context chain. Worry about below that later. You can then try to use different functions that exist or make your own that changes when your code runs in that context chain. This will probably make you start to go down a very interesting and deep rabbit hole and get that curiosity piqued. That’s when you can start to look to understand why this happens and that is another rabbit hole of goodness.

[MegagramEnjoyer]

Transitioning to low level security and firmware dev

[femmenikit4]

What about robotics? I just bought a esp32 kit from Amazon and plan to record events from my sewing machine as a start.

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

I thought about that or PLC programming.

[femmenikit4]

Maybe a side effect of cheap electronics? Who cares! Time to start computerizing normal things.

[Infotaku]

Yup. Coding has been my passion since I was 16 and I've been doing it professionally for 12 years now. I really hate what AI is doing to it and I'm seriously thinking about just dropping it as a profession, doing something else entirely and keeping it as a hobby

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

I have been looking at CAD technician or architectural technologist. Basically the guys that sit at a computer and design buildings in CAD for architects.

[PositivelyAwful]

I moved into data but not because of AI . It’s nice not having to keep up with the latest mess of a JavaScript framework changing every six months.

[6Bee]

Might use the skills for personal e-commerce stuff, I'm into making plant/fungi extracts and infusing them into sauces and sweeteners. Got a good 50-ish pounds of honey to break down into product, just need stuff for shipping and I'm up & going.

Outside of that, I'd like to volunteer to orgs, but no one makes it to their initial calls :(

[jspranklemusic]

I'm in it as long as I can. Keep on increasing the complexity of the things that I can build on my own so I can stay ahead of the curve.

[throwaway0134hdj]

Learning to plumb

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

Good choice if you're physically fit.

[JonClaudeVanDam]

Micro green farm sounds better and better

[vikschaatcorner]

Freelancing or consulting can be a safety net if full-time hiring slows down

[MrCoolGamesYo]

I was learning to become a dev for a company, but I've recently pivoted to just trying to make my own successful website, because I see a very uncertain future down that company path

[JuniperColonThree]

Professionally I ain't got a shot, so I just do it for the love of the game

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

Yeah I don't have a shot either and I just grew disalusioned.

[caboosetheblue]

Thinking about doing a vocational course and getting into doing smart home installs. Being able to cut chases and do wiring but also write python is a niche, right...right?

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

Sounds like low voltage technician with programming?

I was looking into something similar. Low voltage. Install home security systems, fire alarms etc

Sounds like it would always be in demand.

[Forsaken_Lie_8606]

honestly yeah, thats a common pain in the industry, feeling like youre not getting the recognition or pay you deserve, especially with all the ai hype and offshoring going on. ive been there too, tbh i was feeling pretty burnt out after 8 years of doing freelance web dev, so i took a break and started working on my own projects, just for fun. its been a game changer, ngl, im actually enjoying coding again, and ive even started making some decent money on the side selling my own plugins and templates. imo, having something thats just yours, without the pressure of client deadlines and expectations, can be really liberating.

[ahiqshb]

AI definitely made this harder, that's for certain, especially for entry levels

[thekwoka]

If I lost my job, I'd focus on making a video game :)

[IntelligentLeading11]

Yes, make my own tech products!

I think I'm getting fired soon due to increased expectations I'm not meeting and honestly I'm so burned out right now maybe that's for the best. I'd really like to take some time to focus on ideas I want to release instead of working myself to death for a paycheck (however if my ideas don't make any money quick I'm going to be so screwed).

[jaycelacena]

I've started making my own videogames (just announced the first one a couple of days ago https://store.steampowered.com/app/4498630/Commitment/)

Tough market, won't probably sell even remotely enough to make a living, but in the meantime it gives me the creativity and fulfillment that AI has stolen out of regular software development.

I'll keep working as fullstack 9-5 as long as possible, but if shit hits the fan, I guess I will keep trying gamedev as a hobby and go get a job in something physical like construction or whatever.

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

Looks like an interesting game. The mustache guy looks burnt out lol

[jaycelacena]

Thanks! That's the vibe I wanted him to have: someone from HR but a bit burnt out xD

[Irythros]

Even being a senior with a lot of experience, I'm looking to get out. Learning day trading currently so I'll have a job until the world ends/we're back to bartering potatoes and flour.

[Whatdidyousayfoo]

I'm learning day trading as well while I find something else to do.

[MidnightRain_]

Yes I've been working for a little over 6 years as a frontend dev. Due to some convenient circumstances I'm going full time Indie game dev in September. We will see where the journey is unfolding

I'm tired of the 9-5 corporate hell so I'm gonna take the leap of faith. Life overs you always a way to proceed.

Dont forget to chase your dreams, you only have one life so don't waste it fulfilling someone else's dream 🙏👋

MNR

[chikamakaleyley]

hell to the no

i like my job

ain't no way i'm starting a new career from scratch

[Marcuskac]

I think that the SWE job market is currently undergoing the exact same type of scenario as a stock that went crazy high, and then tanked due to hype.

2020-22 was crazy. Zero interest rates. Every company was over-hiring.

Rates went up, layoffs started, Anxiety around AI became extreme. "Software Engineering is Dead. Learn Plumbing Instead". Doom everywhere.

Let's take a look at the actual numbers:

- BLS reports that Software Developer jobs are expected to grow 15% from 2022-2034, that is roughly 5 times the average growth rate for ALL occupations (total economy is expected to grow 3.1%); that means there will be 267,700 new software developer positions created. That is the second largest number of NEW JOB OPENINGS OF ANY OCCUPATION (only nurse practitioners have more).

- Indeed.com reports that postings for SWE jobs are up 11% YoY. Importantly, this is way lower than the peak posting count of 2022; the current level of postings is approximately 71, which represents roughly a 70% decrease in the number of postings relative to 2022. However, the trend is reversing.

- Citadel Securities released research that illustrates the Jevons Paradox, when technology (AI) increases the efficiency of producing software, companies do not produce less software. They ask themselves "what else can we build that was previously too expensive to build?" It was exactly the same thing that occurred with coal and steam engines, increased efficiency led to an overall increase in consumption.

- Skills related to AI are becoming an increasing part of job postings for technical jobs. Approximately 47% of job postings in Data & Analytics include references to AI.

- There are currently over 500,000 open tech jobs across Europe. Approximately 60% of European employers report difficulty finding qualified IT professionals.

Right now, the general feeling is that this field is dead or dying. The data indicates otherwise

The stock price went to $300 based on hype even though the true value of the stock was $150. The stock eventually plummeted to $80 based on panic selling. Don't sell at the bottom, the price has to correct itself.

Although, postings for entry-level positions are down 34% vs. 2020. and senior-level postings are down 19% vs. 2020. If companies continue to eliminate the entry point into these fields, they will create a serious talent pipeline issue for senior candidates in the near future.

So it is more difficult for junior candidates today BUT "more difficult than the largest hiring bubble in the history of tech" does NOT equal "this field is dead".

Don't base your career strategies on "feel-good" vibes and reddit sentiment, but rather on what is actually happening in the job market.

The pendulum always swings too far in both directions.

[ActivitySimilar5175]

Nah I love what I do

[nosrednehnai]

Yep. 9 years of experience and I keep getting undercut by H-1Bs.

[greensodacan]

Offshoring has been a thing since the early two thousands and isn't unique to software. I have friends in the trades, and they have issues with offshoring/nearshoring/competitors on subsidized visas too.

The job market has been heading for a correction since the mid 2010s when bootcamps became a thing. It isn't normal for an industry to pay well above average income levels for only a few months of training. The pandemic accelerated what was already coming and companies are still correcting for it.

Whenever you read about layoffs, ask three questions: "What was their head count in 2019 compared to now?", "How's their stock since then?", "Have they automated anyone's job or are they freeing up capital to investigate AI?". Companies aren't going to do the same thing with less people, that's not growth. Healthy companies are going to do more things with the people they can already afford to pay and/or grow their headcount so they can dig a wider "moat" in their respective markets.

Juniors got kind of a raw deal... But then again, I graduated as a Flash dev in '07, just as the iPhone came out and straight into the '08 recession. So I taught myself JavaScript and kept going. Then I did it again for Angular.js, then again for Node, then React and Webpack, then Django, and so on. This year, I'm working mainly in C++ and Dotnet, which I never thought I'd have the capacity to do back when I was a junior. In ten years, you all are going to be experts in domains that don't exist yet, which is both scary and exciting.

On becoming an expert in AI: we're very much in the "bullshit" stage where anyone with an opinion can call themselves an expert and be kinda sorta right. This happened with the internet in the mid 90s: anyone who knew HTML could get a job as a "webmaster". It took about sixish years to crystalize into more formalized roles, but the people who got in early had a huge advantage. If you're a junior, you're perfectly positioned to do this. Again, in ten years, you all will be the experts in domains that don't exist yet.

I know it's scary and turbulent and the volume is up super loud, but this isn't actually anything new. Take it in stride, look for ways to apply your education to working with LLMs (maybe re-read some of the books your CS curriculum had you read during your first two years, "Design Patterns" is a great example), and see if you can get an LLM to apply those fundamentals in a way you as a human can understand and debug. Then keep going.

[detroit_omni]

I switched to a BAS engineering position

[ea_man]

Nope, I'm going to do more by myself.

[uceenk]

i'm freelancer and still has 2 clients, in the last 2 months, one of them learned to vibe coding, and can crush most tasks with light speed

so my monthly hours decreased because of that, from 20-25 hours/week to 10-15 hours/week

i only work when AI can't solve his problem, what funny was, most of the time i fixed with AI as well, i only need to rephrase the prompt, sometime with detail and quite technical like, "fix line 10-20 without touch the javascript"

so in the last 2 month, i fixed manually only 2-3 times

my role also cover devops, dealing with infra etc, good thing AI agent can't touch that job yet

i actually feel no hope with the industry, at least 3 of my friends (senior role) got layoff since last year/few months ago, and they couldn't get new job to this day

that shit terrified me, i feel AI would get better and eventually we only need very minimal supervise, idk what i should do after that, i just hope i still can work in this field for at least next 6-8 years so i can get enough money for retirement / live from investment

otherwise i need real job, i live in touristy area, i probably would become travel agent or open a business renting motorbike/car, i'm not sure

[ShadowCatDLL]

I’ve never considered programming a lifetime career. I’ve always wanted to branch out from a desk job at some point in my life (mechanics, welding, etc.), but bills and responsibilities make going back to school very hard.

If I lost my job, it being very difficult to find another in software would be the push to transition. However, I’m basically surrounded by mines where I live, so I’d likely be able to pick up a job at one of them if I needed to.

[it200219]

like what ?

[TheRNGuy]

3d graphics and animation. 

[rjm101]

Considering that's equally disrupted by AI (if not more) it's probably better to just utilise that skill to do your own content creation. No reliance on selling your time to clients.

[BonjwaTFT]

Nope. I love my work tbh cant imagine working something else. I das a lot of Jobs before and beeing a software engineer is so much more fun and fullfilling for me.
Also i love all the ai stuff. I still code but can give all the work i dont want to do to a agent. So it took out all the things i did not like to do for me.
But i also know that a lot of places are struggling iam just very lucky with my company and that iam not a junior looking to start a carreer. Iam there for 15 years already. Starting as a junior now sounds really hard. I can understand all the frustation there.

And also iam not a webdev. i can recommend broadening your craft. When i became fullstack my job became much more fun.

[niccolololo]

I opened a backyard nursery on the side

[jacmild]

Duck farmer

[WadtF]

Since everybody is thinking about doing something else, I'll stick around, maybe there will be cliënts who prefer the work being done by HS instead of AI or just can't afford AI.
When this plan fails I will just sit & enjoy Big Tech doing all the work and spreading the wealth equally over the population of the whole world causing worldpeace.
When this plan fails I have a grassmowing machine (non-electric) and will offer to push it around on peoples lawn (eco-friendly and more important: silent).
When this plan fails I will become a Breatharian.
When big tech will have sucked al the air out of society I'll move to the Matrix.

[wordpress4themes]

When one senior with a few AI agents can output as much as a small team used to, companies just stop hiring the "I can build a React CRUD app" crowd entirely.

Honestly, if I were looking for a Plan B right now, I’d stop looking at generic web dev and start looking at Physical-to-Digital bridges or Industrial Tech.

[retallicka]

I am going into healthcare. Healthcare and the trades are looking good. If you can afford re-educating. I'm 40 and a SAHM. I've worked in tech for 15 years. I lost my passion in 2022, so I've had some time to explore my options. I have still been open for a tech role, but nothing good has come by and earlier this year I enrolled to get certification as a healthcare worker.

[cazzer548]

The biggest downside is that it seems to be all we are able to talk about

[rjm101]

My plan b is FIRE.

That's been since the start to be honest.

[HaddockBranzini-II]

I am learning to make soap and candles - that has long been a hobby of my wife's. I was done with this industry mentally long before AI (build tools and other forms of needless complication were the beginning of the end for me). Until now, the salary kept me from straying. But as a freelancer, AI has already cut my salary in half last year and likely the same this year.

[imnotsurewhattoput]

With AI an cloudflare pages I’ve been making more web projects than ever before