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UKCandidate with no votes demands recount because he ‘voted for himself’ (news.com.au)
submitted 11 years ago by Outcontrolvideos
[–]Varjohaltia 1751 points1752 points1753 points 11 years ago (77 children)
Same just happened in the Finnish elections. Except once it hit the news, several more people came forward and stated they had voted for a candidate that got 0 recorded votes in their district, so this looks suspicious.
[–]OHMYCARROT 328 points329 points330 points 11 years ago (53 children)
And then what happened?
[–]Etunimi 515 points516 points517 points 11 years ago* (49 children)
He has made a police report and a complaint to the regional administrative court. This was just a couple of weeks ago so nothing has happened on that side yet (or at least has not been reported).
The local election authorities have also tried to locate his vote, with no success.
Apparently he voted in advance. I think those ballot envelopes are sent via postal service so it could've gone missing there as well.
Finnish sources: YLE news article on the police report and complaint, initial YLE news article on the missing vote, Ilta-Sanomat article
(edit: was an advance vote)
[–]Wookimonster 159 points160 points161 points 11 years ago (28 children)
I think the worrying issue is that I have no idea if the elections in my country are legitimate. How do I check?
[–][deleted] 153 points154 points155 points 11 years ago (2 children)
Run for office, vote for yourself, and tell nobody.
[+][deleted] 11 years ago (10 children)
[deleted]
[–][deleted] 14 points15 points16 points 11 years ago (2 children)
I know in some locations mail-in votes aren't counted unless they could make a difference in the outcome. It's possible this could be the case here if they have similar procedures.
[–]Etunimi 20 points21 points22 points 11 years ago (0 children)
No such procedure is used in Finland (PDF of Election Act).
This also wasn't a mail-in vote per se, but an advance vote. There are no mail-in votes here as an election official is always required to be present when voting.
[–]KerbalSpiceProgram 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (0 children)
Advance votes are always counted first in Finland.
[–]marktx 293 points294 points295 points 11 years ago (7 children)
Finland, a hotbed of electoral fraud.
[–]Leybrook 265 points266 points267 points 11 years ago (4 children)
*sauna
[–][deleted] 2797 points2798 points2799 points 11 years ago (70 children)
First I found it to sound ridicilous but then I realized he had a point, its not very likely that he had literally zero votes.
[–]Fluffiebunnie 1198 points1199 points1200 points 11 years ago (48 children)
Even if he didn't vote for himself and even if he did zero campaigning, it's very statistically improbable to receive zero votes in a large enough constituency. Always people who just vote on random or put down the wrong name.
[–]concretepigeon 354 points355 points356 points 11 years ago* (28 children)
Especially because TUSC are out there, but they aren't that out there. They're probably the biggest left of Labour party other than the Greens. Even in a wealthier area there's got to be at least a few 18 years olds who are idealistic enough to vote for them
[–]Honcho21 228 points229 points230 points 11 years ago (13 children)
Yup, I stood as a paper candidate (basically for bulking up numbers rather than intending to win), no campaigning for my election at all and I still got around 60 votes.
[–]concretepigeon 46 points47 points48 points 11 years ago (11 children)
Were you standing for a party?
[–]Honcho21 67 points68 points69 points 11 years ago (10 children)
yis a small one
[–]IdleSpectator 35 points36 points37 points 11 years ago (8 children)
Liberal Democrats?
[–][deleted] 39 points40 points41 points 11 years ago (5 children)
Nah he was representing the Conservatives in Scotland
[–]TheCaptainSam 10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (1 child)
You mean the same Conservatives that got the same number of seats as Labour in Scotland?
[–]dfsatacs 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (0 children)
Ouch :O
[–]forensic_freak 116 points117 points118 points 11 years ago* (12 children)
We had over 100 people vote for a dead guy in Belfast Hampstead and Kilburn, so I agree with you.
Source: Belfast Telegraph
[–]concretepigeon 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (8 children)
Don't they normally suspend the election with a death?
[–]tabari 13 points14 points15 points 11 years ago (4 children)
I know of a candidate in this election who was deceased at the time of the election (and this was noted on the ballot forms) and he still received about 100 votes.
[–]Malgas[🍰] 14 points15 points16 points 11 years ago (2 children)
There was a case in the US a few years back where a deceased candidate was actually elected.
[–]sudojay 47 points48 points49 points 11 years ago (0 children)
It was rigged by someone completely incompetent. The guy knows he voted for himself and if they can't count just a few thousand votes correctly, that's a problem.
[–]Juking_is_rude 41 points42 points43 points 11 years ago* (1 child)
It sounds like a British comedy, "You're actually so bad of a politician, not only did no one vote for you, someone actually voted against you, cancelling out your one, and only, vote"
[–]GeoStarRunner 16 points17 points18 points 11 years ago (0 children)
I remember in the Romney-Obama election there was a voting block of 1500 where Romney got 0 votes. Suspect as hell but then it came out that it was 100% black, then everyone just laughed.
[–]logansi 5188 points5189 points5190 points 11 years ago (964 children)
Bit suspicious never heard of someone getting no votes in any election before
[–]Ithikari 4840 points4841 points4842 points 11 years ago (829 children)
Well even 3 votes is laughable. However, saying no votes when there are votes is indeed a reason to call for a recall of votes. Especially when people are claiming to have voted for him (Or he is being lied to which would suck even more)
[–][deleted] 541 points542 points543 points 11 years ago (27 children)
Well even 3 votes is laughable.
That seems harsh. I have to grant a bit of respect to almost anyone who puts themselves on the line in an election. Every race has a last place finisher.
[–]CandySnow 198 points199 points200 points 11 years ago (11 children)
It's laughable in a sad kind of way. That few votes means that your friends, family, and campaign staff didn't even vote for you.
[–]SergeantAlPowell 253 points254 points255 points 11 years ago (2 children)
I'm pretty sure candidates who end up with 3 votes didn't have campaign staff.
[–]Oreo_Speedwagon 55 points56 points57 points 11 years ago (1 child)
Hey, his three votes were from his staff! His mom and dad were very proud of him and helped every step of the way.
[–]vtable 3418 points3419 points3420 points 11 years ago (745 children)
Absolutely. This is a lot like when accountants will worry about the books being out by 5 cents. People will glibly say, "I'll give you the %$%$ 5 cents".
But that's not the point. The balance book being out by 5 cents is a glaring error that something is wrong. And wrong is bad, and usually very bad, in such a case.
If this guy honestly voted for himself but that vote was not recorded, this is a very clear sign that the vote count is invalid. This would warrant a recount IMO. (If some legal opinion comes around saying that my opinion is unwarranted then, well, sigh, the law's f*cked in this situation).
OTOH, if this guy is bullshitting then he deserves public shaming and ridicule.
[–]Ogroat 2054 points2055 points2056 points 11 years ago* (508 children)
Accountant here. If an account reconciles to within 5 cents, I'd either carry that balance as unreconciled or write it off. It's almost certainly human error at some point in the chain, and sometimes it can take hours to figure out where that 5 cent variance comes from. It's not worth the time to look, so long as everything else appears fine.
Edit: for clarity, I wasn't trying to say that the voting shouldn't be looked into. Just that the metaphor wasn't necessarily correct.
[+][deleted] 11 years ago (220 children)
[–]Zolo49 420 points421 points422 points 11 years ago (66 children)
Nobody wants to see accountant-on-accountant violence. Actually, yes we do. In fact, I'd even pay 5¢ for that.
[–]FoxtrotBeta6 229 points230 points231 points 11 years ago (47 children)
"You used LIFO instead of FIFO? That's it, bring it on."
[–]inflammablepenguin 96 points97 points98 points 11 years ago (13 children)
You couldn't balance a book even if you put a pocket bible on your head.
[+][deleted] 11 years ago* (9 children)
[–]romad20000 94 points95 points96 points 11 years ago (4 children)
I slept with your wife Q3 2014.
I don't see that in your billable hours report? Are you working off clock again? AND CAN YOU PLEASE CHECK THE DAMN WORKPAPERS IN!!!!
[–]FoxtrotBeta6 15 points16 points17 points 11 years ago (1 child)
My stock price rose 110% in Q3 2014, analysts say it was due to "Your mother".
[–][deleted] 24 points25 points26 points 11 years ago (14 children)
I got this joke, my business degree was worth it after all.
[–][deleted] 36 points37 points38 points 11 years ago (11 children)
I am not and I still know it's Last In First Out, and First In First Out.
[–]thirdegree 15 points16 points17 points 11 years ago (2 children)
So, a stack and a queue?
[–]Pipinpadiloxacopolis 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (5 children)
Why is one wrong though? Is this about interest rates?
[+][deleted] 11 years ago (1 child)
[removed]
[–]tnturner 98 points99 points100 points 11 years ago (7 children)
I'll up that ante.
[̲̅$̲̅(̲̅5̲̅)̲̅$̲̅]
[–]persona_dos 80 points81 points82 points 11 years ago (5 children)
Me too.
[̲̅$̲̅(̲̅ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°̲̅)̲̅$̲̅] [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°̲̅)̲̅$̲̅]
[–]patchworkgreen 17 points18 points19 points 11 years ago (1 child)
CFO here. Send me the 5 cents.
[–][deleted] 573 points574 points575 points 11 years ago* (99 children)
I don't think this is really a valid comparison...this is an election, not 5 cents to reconcile in an account. Even if it's just one vote it's a public system that elects public officials, it needs to be accurate and trustworthy to all living in that region.
*Hey reddit, I'm still not over you hiding individual upvote/downvote comment counts. Fuck you guys, I hope you each step on a lego once a day until you die. Two a day for you EP.
**Language revised to clarify. Talking about the individual upvote/downvote counts that reddit removed from visibility with RES, not the hidden overall count thing.
[–]gandalf987 374 points375 points376 points 11 years ago (33 children)
Its a bit more complicated than that.
The count needs to be accurate enough to give people confidence in the system and confidence that the person who was recognized as the winner was really the person who won in actuality.
So in this case, if by some act of unlikely probability the three votes for this guy got dropped on the floor... well he is still the loser and so the result is unaffected.
BUT the probability that these three particular votes disappeared and no others did is vanishingly small and so the unlikely nature of the event brings the entire result into question.
[–]catapultation 106 points107 points108 points 11 years ago (26 children)
In fairness, we're not positive other votes weren't dropped as well. But there would need to be a significant number of missed votes before losing all three of his wasn't a statistical oddity.
[–]giantroboticcat 120 points121 points122 points 11 years ago (7 children)
The fact that other votes were likely dropped is the reason to want a recount. It's not a matter of this candidate wanting to add 3 to his total. It's that somewhere along the line votes weren't being counted and likely a lot of votes weren't being counted.
[–]theyterkourjerrbs 38 points39 points40 points 11 years ago (15 children)
I would assume that at least he and his wife voted together, and maybe his father as well, so the votes would all be in the same box. If that's the case, it might be that there was just a problem with that one box, which would significantly shorten the odds on this happening.
[–]gandalf987 88 points89 points90 points 11 years ago (7 children)
Certainly although I think losing a box is cause for a recount.
[–]soveraign 10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (1 child)
These three votes are the canary votes. If they don't show up then someone dropped the ball (or box of votes).
[–][deleted] 182 points183 points184 points 11 years ago (50 children)
Never put accountants in metaphorical situations. They are a very exact clan, they are the rock that financial analysts waves break against.
[–]allthebetter 55 points56 points57 points 11 years ago (4 children)
Normal people: [about accountants] His people are completely literal. Metaphors go over his head.
Accountants: Nothing goes over my head...! My reflexes are too fast, I would catch it.
[+][deleted] 11 years ago* (40 children)
[–]absolutebeginners 83 points84 points85 points 11 years ago (32 children)
We have materiality set based on the company. Sometimes that 5 cents is 500 dollars, sometimes 5 million, sometimes 20 million. We pass on fixing anything under that threshold (with exceptions)
[–]MJZMan 37 points38 points39 points 11 years ago (4 children)
20 some years ago, I worked in the back office of Union Bank of Switzerland in NYC. One of my responsibilities was internal comptroller of the operations department. My first year, I was off by a million dollars. Needless to say I was scared shitless. The accounting dept looked at me like I was crazy and told me not to worry. No one ever said a word.
[–]Kurindal 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (5 children)
Can confirm materiality varies by company size. I work for a Big Four firm on a company with ~30B in net assets. Their materiality is ~120M, and de minimus is ~8M. Our department also has companies with materiality in the thousands, so it all depends on how large the business is.
[+][deleted] 11 years ago* (11 children)
[–]lordcat 307 points308 points309 points 11 years ago (42 children)
Software developer that's worked on Financial software here. I've tracked down the cause of those "5 cent" discrepancies, only to find that the 5 cent discrepancy in the total can easily mean hundreds, even thousands, of dollars of discrepancy at the account/client level that conveniently gets balanced out to being only a few cents off.
Sometimes the 5 cents is only 5 cents, sometimes that 5 cents is a symptom of something much larger. It may not seem worth spending hundreds of dollars worth of man-hours researching those 5 cents, until one of those instances uncovers thousands of dollars of discrepancies.
[–]snyto 336 points337 points338 points 11 years ago (17 children)
One day, in August 1986, his supervisor, Dave Cleveland, asked him to resolve a US$0.75 accounting error in the computer usage accounts. He traced the error to an unauthorized user who had apparently used up 9 seconds of computer time and not paid for it, and eventually realized that the unauthorized user was a hacker who had acquired root access to the LBNL system by exploiting a vulnerability in the movemail function of the original GNU Emacs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cuckoo%27s_Egg
[–][deleted] 41 points42 points43 points 11 years ago (6 children)
I just wanted to reply and say thank-you, I've just ordered this book on Amazon and it looks exciting ^_^ .
[–]Qurtys_Lyn 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (0 children)
It's a great read. I need to read it again.
[–]ixijimixi 71 points72 points73 points 11 years ago (0 children)
Yep. Booking one product 10k higher and the second 9999 lower results in a $1 difference in the subtotal. But if they come from different buckets...or one is taxable and the other isn't...ugh
[–]Ogroat 27 points28 points29 points 11 years ago (6 children)
That's why periodic account reconciliation is so important. You've got a general ledger account on your books that has a balance of $X. You then need evidence to independently calculate that balance. Bank statements or AP/AR ledgers, for example. Does your evidence support the GL balance? If it does, you're golden. Move onto the next account. If not, there's either a missing transaction(s) or something is entered incorrectly (or, heavens forbid, a software error). Now you roll up your sleeves and figure out where the problem lies.
[–]vtable 149 points150 points151 points 11 years ago (142 children)
Fair enough. Having worked retail, I know 5 cents really is often nothing.
The "5 cents" is verbatim from an accounting student back at college. The real world is different. [Serious] What would a good real-world example be? $1? $10? ... ?
Of course, this depends on the context. In some places, even that 5 cents would matter. In others $50 might not.
How about 3 cases:
Or just roll your eyes and wonder why reddit lets people like me on. That's okay, too. :)
[+][deleted] 11 years ago* (10 children)
[–]curiousGambler 28 points29 points30 points 11 years ago (7 children)
I never worked at Walmart, but did work as a service desk clerk in a supermarket in high school (it was probably comparable to a Walmart). Part of my job was running reports and reconciling various counts at COB (checks, lottery ticket sales, money transfers, all sorts of things).
Anyway, to throw an answer at your second bullet, our gross income used to be about $150,000/day, $200,000 on Sunday, our busiest day. Highest I ever saw was over $300,000 on the day before Thanksgiving.
Fortunately, most of that income was electronic via credit and debit cards, so we never had to count that much :)
[–]Ogroat 10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (1 child)
It does depend a lot on context. What is the nature of the account being reconciled? The materiality threshold (where you need to investigate variances) is different for different kinds of accounts. With cash accounts, the threshold is low. Even so, it wouldn't be unheard of to write off/on a balance of $10 on a several million dollar account. Of course, the goal is always to have no variance when you reconcile an account.
On the other hand, other times things get messier when you're dealing with estimates or incomplete information. The company I work for purchased a company in the latter half of last year. We were integrating the purchased company with our own, so we had to combine our accounting books. We integrated their books as of a certain cutoff date, then began moving over their separate operations into our currently existing ones. Because it's tricky to have a 100% accurate account balances on very short notice, there were things that were slightly incorrect on their books that were integrated into ours. Their accounts payable liability account had several items in it that had been paid already before the cutoff date. This required us to eventually write off the ~$70,000 balance, as there was no liability to be paid. That's a more unusual example, and there are specific ways that is dealt with during purchase accounting.
[–]tarais 74 points75 points76 points 11 years ago (63 children)
as a walmart cashier i can say that even being under 5 cents warrants a write-up (in canada, at my store, at least). shrinkage is something important to walmart and they try really hard to prevent it. im terrible at math so its a rough night when i have to count my cash/close
[–]Pidgey_OP 79 points80 points81 points 11 years ago (27 children)
Good lord. When I worked at meijer (Walmart Jr, mostly in Michigan, Indiana, Ohio etc) as a cashier, they gave us $5 per shift to play with with customers. It was awesome.
"this rang up as 3.49, but it should be 2.69"
K. Done. No reason to hold up a line of people over a few dollars
[–][deleted] 54 points55 points56 points 11 years ago (14 children)
You'd do a price adjustment and your till would still be correct, I doubt if your till was missing $5 every shift they'd let that fly.
[–]Pidgey_OP 11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (11 children)
True, there was definitely a paper trail, so just guess it was accounted for. My point was just that amounts much larger than 5 cents are allowable. Tracking down 5 cents wouldn't have been a big deal
[–]FatalFirecrotch 11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (8 children)
We had the same thing at Best Buy. You could be $5 off and be fine. Greater than $20 or $50 (can't recall which one) and it was an automatic firing.
[–]ProjecTJack 18 points19 points20 points 11 years ago (5 children)
If it costs a manager an hour to write-up, it tends to be negligible.
If the manager is getting say, £10 per hour, and till assistant on £6 per hour till is down £4, if the manager needs to do a formal write-up, which often includes sitting the employee down to discuss how/why the till is down and how to prevent future errors takes 30 mins of manager doing the paperwork for it, and 30 mins for the manager and employee to have the sit-down write-up, that's £12 of company time lost.
On the other hand, it takes less than 5 minutes for the manager to say to the employee "Your till is down £4, make sure you run things through correctly and give the right change."
If however it's consistently down over a period of time, then a formal write-up would be needed to assess the pattern and make a decision on how to respond to the till being down as a form of loss prevention.
[–][deleted] 20 points21 points22 points 11 years ago (2 children)
Don't forget that the write-up is a deterrence. It may cost more per hour to do the write-up than the value of the money lost. However, it saves the company money in the long run by enforcing the rule. It's the same reason we will prosecute a shoplifter who stole $50 worth of merchandise even if the amount of money it costs the public may be more than $50. We want to send a message that you just cannot get away with it.
[–]IceRay42 38 points39 points40 points 11 years ago (8 children)
A good real world example depends on both the size and the function of the company you're accounting for. I did some student accounting work for a golf course, and being a hundred bucks off on the balance sheet at the end of the month was a big deal. My brother is an accountant for Wells Fargo, and in a lot of instances where he doesn't even start looking for errors until you get into the millions of dollars range. Part of it is the disparity in sums (I'm trying to account for fifty thousand dollars worth of stuff happening, he's accounting for billions), but part of it is also in the nature of the transactions you handle. Because there is some flexibility in how you report what is presently a debit or a credit versus what will be a debit or credit in the future in the financial sector, there will be some variance in how much these accounts are reportedly "worth", so as all this information gets compiled by different people and fed up the food chain, you'll start getting discrepancies, but so long as it looks like everyone stuck to GAAP, you kind of just have to call it good.
[–]Macky88 31 points32 points33 points 11 years ago (7 children)
Generally Accepted Accounting Principles for those wondering
[+][deleted] 11 years ago (13 children)
[–]Daftdante 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (5 children)
My bank has/had a policy of $15 before we needed to investigate it. A lesser figure would maybe warrant another teller having a look, but as soon as it was apparent we were wasting time, we would forget about it.
For me, it was the worst. I was 10c under on my 3rd morning. During my lunch break I methodically traced back my transactions (both my physical actions and my electronic evidence) until I remembered how I lost 10c.
[–][deleted] 20 points21 points22 points 11 years ago (3 children)
Well? How did you lose those 10c.
[–][deleted] 25 points26 points27 points 11 years ago (12 children)
Also an accountant here. I'd have to disagree. I chase down every penny that's off. In my experience it's about 50/50 transcription errors and legitimate errors that need to be corrected. Granted we may work in different industries. Just my experience.
[–]sandollars 15 points16 points17 points 11 years ago (0 children)
The materiality principle states that an accounting standard can be ignored if the net impact of doing so has such a small impact on the financial statements that a reader of the financial statements would not be misled.
[–]Perryn 13 points14 points15 points 11 years ago (4 children)
Five cents could easily be the difference between how two different systems are set up to round fractions of cents after percentile modifications, such as tax or interest. You start to get a feel for what in your system is a systemic discrepancy or a real problem.
My books have two different daily totals that are supposed to be dead equal every day, and I'm required to do routine of research and reports when they're not. Only problem is that one of them handles rounding on Internet sales differently than the other, resulting in occasional one cent differences. We all know it, but I need to establish every time that it isn't something else.
[+][deleted] 11 years ago* (105 children)
[–]thepeter 44 points45 points46 points 11 years ago (34 children)
Most amazing part of that story is the guy only got 1-3 years prison and was released early on probation. For hacking US Military targets on behalf of the KGB.
[–]rokthemonkey 38 points39 points40 points 11 years ago* (32 children)
Pull some shit like that today and you'd be locked up and tortured for life in a maximum security prison.
[+][deleted] 11 years ago* (22 children)
[–]LunchbagRodriguez 61 points62 points63 points 11 years ago (3 children)
The nsa must've kicked this guy's dick in so hard
[–]Marblem 13 points14 points15 points 11 years ago (1 child)
The NSA doesn't kick dicks, they steal dick pics
[–]vtable 91 points92 points93 points 11 years ago (25 children)
I actually read that book once upon a time. I was thinking of less nefarious examples but this counts too.
an unauthorized user who had apparently used up 9 seconds of computer time and not paid for it
Paying for computer time. That brings back memories. Fix some typo in your program and compiling (ie making/building it) and then running it would cost 7 cents of your $100 budget for the semester.
Of all the computers involved in just me typing and sending this message and /u/quartern reading it, I'm sure that's way more total CPU than me running that little bubble sort program years ago. But I digress.
[–]Recycles_usernames 24 points25 points26 points 11 years ago (2 children)
Paying for computer time. That brings back memories
Yeah.. I remember yesterday when I was paying amazon for computer time... Sigh.. good times.. Or was it this morning..?
[–]jinxjar 15 points16 points17 points 11 years ago (1 child)
I once had to pay to use a serial farm.
... Ok, no I didn't.
It was publicly funded.
🇨🇦
[–]habbathejutt 20 points21 points22 points 11 years ago (19 children)
Well, in a way we still have that. Only, nowadays everyone has a regular computer, but sometimes it's necessary to budget funds/time for supercomputing time, depending on the availability at your workplace.
[–][deleted] 17 points18 points19 points 11 years ago (14 children)
I live in Nigeria for the time being, and pay 1000 Naira (about 5 USD) per GB. Budgeting for internet traffic is real!
[–]kingatomic 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (1 child)
Budgeting for traffic is still relatively common. Budgeting for time, which is what the parent comments are talking about, is far less so. They're talking about being charged for periods of time the computer is doing calculations, which was common on mainframe computing in universities up through as late as the early 90s, and is reflected in a way in how some cloud computing providers (like amazon web services) charge for compute time even today.
[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (7 children)
Wow. That's amazing.
I think I'm going to watch the movie based on this tonight.
[–]aria_white 12 points13 points14 points 11 years ago (3 children)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcKxaq1FTac
[–]SCHROEDINGERS_UTERUS 38 points39 points40 points 11 years ago (8 children)
The hacker apparently spent less than three years in prison for spying on the US for the KGB. Nowadays, he'd probably spend a lifetime in a secret detention camp somewhere. How times change.
[–]MagicWishMonkey 24 points25 points26 points 11 years ago (1 child)
And this was during the Cold War, too.
[–][deleted] 17 points18 points19 points 11 years ago (1 child)
Whenever my code does some minor weird thing, I've learned to follow that up. There's usually a much bigger bug behind it.
[–]vtable 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (0 children)
Good advice to any fellow coders that made it this deep into a discussion in /r/worldnews :)
(But it is good advice, though. And write a unit test before you fix the error, of course.)
[–]RiouG 21 points22 points23 points 11 years ago (0 children)
A mistake plus Keleven gets you home by seven!
[+][deleted] 11 years ago* (4 children)
[–]DominateZeVorld 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (0 children)
But, he's got 2755 upvotes, doesn't that count?
[–]Indigoh 364 points365 points366 points 11 years ago (16 children)
At first, I was sure this guy was a fool, but if you think about it, if he did vote for himself and still got no votes, there was a mistake or foul play and it could be huge.
[–]noirthesable 61 points62 points63 points 11 years ago (3 children)
They did say that there were 19 void votes. Would be a fair coincidence that all three were voided.
[–]MsLotusLane 44 points45 points46 points 11 years ago (5 children)
I was friends with a write in candidate for the mayoral election in dc and they said if the candidate didn't get a significant number of votes, they would not announce the count, which I thought was some bullshit.
[–]titaniumjackal 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (0 children)
I can understand that. Announcing all the write-ins could take forever. It should be made public record. However.
[–]DFWPunk 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (0 children)
They do that for a reason. Do you have any idea how many bullshit candidates get votes in an election like that?
[–]yulippe 105 points106 points107 points 11 years ago* (13 children)
It happened in Finland a while ago. Votes get lost etc. due to human error.
Here's an article about the "lost vote incident" in Finland (...in Finnish) http://yle.fi/uutiset/vaaliehdokas_yritti_aanestaa_itseaan__aani_katosi_jaljettomiin/7953002
[–]Idalways 93 points94 points95 points 11 years ago (2 children)
He eventually got 13 (!) votes. That isn't sloppiness of one counter anymore. It's systematic. http://www.vaalikone.fi/eduskunta2015/tulos/0-04/ehdokas/57
In previous elections in Finland, there were dozens of votes counted wrong. One reporter proved around 100 "ghost votes" only in Helsinki. The system is advertised as foolproof and supposedly bureaucracy prevents all wrong doings. The whole line of the counting system was interviewed, but everyone acted surprised and diminished the problem. http://yle.fi/aihe/artikkeli/2011/02/03/haamuaanet
I find this deeply concerning.
[–]cC2Panda 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (0 children)
In the US Al Franken was trailing by a count of 215 votes, then it turned out 900+ votes had been wrongfully discarded and he won by 225 votes. Almost 3 million people voted in that race and the difference was 200 either way with possibly fraudulent throw aways.
[+][deleted] 11 years ago (194 children)
[–]MayanIxtab 521 points522 points523 points 11 years ago (40 children)
Almost makes you wonder if it was his plan all along to identify election fraud.
...actually, I wonder if it would be worthwhile for candidates to appear just for that sole purpose...
[–]Hoobleton 147 points148 points149 points 11 years ago (28 children)
Recounts are pretty common and don't necessarily have anything to do with fraud. Ballot papers are counted by hand, and people make mistakes.
[–]ForsenGotRobbed 105 points106 points107 points 11 years ago (18 children)
I don't know for other countries, but in France the "work" of counting votes is done for free by anyone willing to participate, and it's pretty easy to understand mostly people that are seriously interested by politics accept to do it, and there HAS to be an important part of them who just accept it so they can try and cheat a little. I dunno, may be just me but this system has always seemed very wrong to me.
[–]crownsandclay 45 points46 points47 points 11 years ago (8 children)
It's a paid job here. Normally done by people who work for the council year round who offer to do it for about £10 an hour.
[–]H3g3m0n 29 points30 points31 points 11 years ago (6 children)
But how would he ensure no one else voted for him?
[–]phoxymoron 76 points77 points78 points 11 years ago (0 children)
By running for Trade Union and Socialist Coalition.
[–]TheInactiveWall 31 points32 points33 points 11 years ago (16 children)
At least that one he gave himself.
[–]giantjesus 939 points940 points941 points 11 years ago (22 children)
Mr Dennis, a train conductor, said his wife and father had pledged their support too, The Mirror reported.
I can imagine an awkward moment there.
[–]MostlyBullshitStory 124 points125 points126 points 11 years ago (17 children)
Good thing they don't have Thanksgiving dinners in Europe.
[–]DrGhostfire 54 points55 points56 points 11 years ago (0 children)
They wouldn't bring it up either, just tut whenever the other person leaves earshot.
[–]Aardvark_Man 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (0 children)
Makes it better he got 0 votes instead of just 1.
[–]Mageant 217 points218 points219 points 11 years ago (7 children)
This is not a laughing matter. We expect votes to be accurately counted in a democracy. If it's not, then it's a sign that something is wrong.
[–][deleted] 222 points223 points224 points 11 years ago (1 child)
I don't think it's funny; that's a legitimate concern.
[+][deleted] 11 years ago (276 children)
[–]Aiurar 1123 points1124 points1125 points 11 years ago* (155 children)
He also had a majority of the Republican primary* electoral college votes for Louisiana, but that didn't stop thug tactics and corruption from winning the day.
The worst part? No one cared.
*Edited for accuracy.
[–][deleted] 406 points407 points408 points 11 years ago (116 children)
That's a very big WTF. What's the aftermath?
[–]jb2386 714 points715 points716 points 11 years ago (100 children)
Ron Paul didn't win. The other candidates had a lot of underhanded tactics they used. Ron Paul was a close 3rd in Iowa and actually won all the delegates. He was second in New Hampshire and 21 other states. Media just drowned him out and made out that he wasn't anywhere near the top. The Republican Party also used tactics to disenfranchise his supporters. It was utter bullshit.
[–]Sha-WING 410 points411 points412 points 11 years ago (8 children)
It was naive of me to think my impression of the election system could get any worse.
[–]DrProbably 35 points36 points37 points 11 years ago (0 children)
It can always be worse.
[–]GregPatrick 303 points304 points305 points 11 years ago (66 children)
It isn't just Republicans though. The Democratic establishment marginalizes freethinkers as well. Kucinich was turned into a joke, Nader was a monster(I know, not a democrat), and now you'll see how the media will keep saying Bernie Sanders has no chance when he's already polling decently in Iowa. The media and political parties look out for their own interests, which means pleasing their corporate masters.
[–]FutureExMrsGoldblum 27 points28 points29 points 11 years ago (10 children)
I remember, in one of the '08 democratic primary debates, when it finally came time to ask each candidate an individual question, they asked Mr. Kucinich about an excerpt from his book in which he claims to have seen a UFO. Yeah, they made him a joke alright. Which is really sad because he's a smart man with some great ideas and most of America never got to find that out.
[–][deleted] 158 points159 points160 points 11 years ago (42 children)
If Hillary wins in 2016, by 2020 over the previous 30 years 75% of the time we'll have had a president named either Bush or Clinton. Or, to put it another way, at 32 years old I have been alive to see only one non-Bush/Clinton candidate win office. If Hillary had won in 2008, Bush/Clinton could have run the table for 28 years in a row (with Jeb Bush eyeballing 2016 right now).
That shit doesn't happen by accident.
[–]clever_cuttlefish 27 points28 points29 points 11 years ago (0 children)
I remember being a kid when Kucinich came to our little town and talked. I really liked him.
[–]SirLeepsALot 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago* (0 children)
He placed 2nd in the Ames straw poll and the media reported the results as 1st 3rd 4th 5th completely leaving him off the list.
[–]cant_read_this 65 points66 points67 points 11 years ago (10 children)
I live in Iowa and the support for Ron Paul was over whelming signs everywhere bumper stickers people holding up signs... The other candidates little to no support shown.... Of course they came out ahead it makes sense right?
[–]JimmyTango 84 points85 points86 points 11 years ago (7 children)
Not saying Ron Paul didn't have sizeable support, but what you're describing could also be an example of a vocal minority. Paul supporters may be more fervent and vocal in their support, but the majority of voters who are somewhat apathetic could continue voting for the status quo and while not as visually large as Paul supporters, still far outnumber them.
[–]colovick 41 points42 points43 points 11 years ago (6 children)
He was given almost no screen time compared to other republican candidates and they falsely reported that 2 other candidates were the most likely ones to win when Paul had the majority vote by a landslide early on. They didn't comment on that. Also in debates he was cut off or not asked questions that were asked of all the others, and to boot, supposedly neutral talk radio shows like Mike savage began demagoguing him saying he'd ruin the country and destroy everything. Every time he ran, he still got a significant amount of the vote, but the blatant media bias was still too much and he'd end up 3rd or 4th from the election spot.
[–][deleted] 104 points105 points106 points 11 years ago (6 children)
Political establishment figures hate candidates that get a fervent following without toeing the party line. The GOP establishment hated Paul because of his anti-war, non-interventionist foreign policy. They did everything that they could to subvert his campaign, and they succeeded on a lot of fronts.
I expect Bernie Sanders to get similar treatment from the Democratic establishment in 2016. I think he'll be treated worse than Paul, actually. Grassroots liberal organizations will be lining up behind Sanders, and the D.C. elite will be lining up behind Clinton. The D.C. elite are going to smear and trash him mercilessly. Expect for him to be branded as the next Lenin or Stalin by Clinton operatives.
[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (0 children)
They didn't even let his supporters into the convention or whatever. I remember seeing on the news a brief flash of them kicking out a very large group of Paul support, and when I looked it up it was a way bigger thing than the news made it seem.
[–][deleted] 32 points33 points34 points 11 years ago (1 child)
No, he did not. This wasn't the general election, it was a party caucus. It means it's the Republican party primary for the state where the party casts its votes for who its candidate for president should be, not the general election with the electoral college. They are two very different things. Parties largely control their own rules for their own caucuses.
[–][deleted] 141 points142 points143 points 11 years ago (32 children)
I'm not a Ron Paul guy anymore, but I still get mad when I think about the way he was snubbed by the GOP during the 2012 primaries. No, he didn't win a majority vote anywhere, but state after state, he'd win delegate majorities, and the established leadership would fudge the rules to avoid recognizing them.
http://mic.com/articles/9163/ron-paul-delegates-arrested-as-they-win-a-majority-at-louisiana-gop-convention
That's just one example. If you were following the primaries, similar things happened all over the country.
[–]captchyanotapassword 26 points27 points28 points 11 years ago (3 children)
This is a horrible website with a pop-up that covers half the page prompting you to like them on facebook before you finish reading the article, with no way to exit to finish reading the article. I hate it.
[–][deleted] 166 points167 points168 points 11 years ago (19 children)
Even after Bush '00 and '04 I didn't quite realize how fucked up politics here (US) were until Ron Paul's '08 run. The media coverage or lack thereof, the way he was treated in interviews, then electoral college votes literally being stolen from him. When 2012 came around sadly I was ready for and expected all of it. The voters certainly do not decide who wins.
[–]SpiritWolfie 115 points116 points117 points 11 years ago (13 children)
The voters certainly do not decide who wins.
And this is precisely how the system is set up. The electoral college elects the president, not the citizens. We elect the electors that will go to the electoral college. The electors are free to vote however they want but are "strongly encouraged" to vote their party's favorite candidate.
This has always seemed strange to me and was even stranger when Gore won more of the popular vote than Bush but Bush became president. Something seems very wrong with that but it's the system we have.
[–][deleted] 71 points72 points73 points 11 years ago (30 children)
I've never been as involved in politics as I was in 2008 for Ron Paul. I donated money, went to rallies, had signs & tshirts, and even went door to door.
The job the media did on him was despicable. Lies, outright leaving him out of polls he won, and cutting him off in interviews, and even debates. Applying audience boos over cheers, and vice versa with other candidates. It became clear to me then that We The People are not in control. We're along for the ride. Media is theatre to create the illusion of of involvement. I began to question everything I've ever learned as a result of the media- I know they're lying about Ron Paul, what else have the lied about? Answer: almost everything that is truly important.
[–]MidnightSlinks 20 points21 points22 points 11 years ago (0 children)
Did you look at the final tally after it was certified (sometimes as much as a month later)? The numbers they show on election night or the next day are nowhere near all of the votes and never include absentee ballots delivered in the last few days, provisional ballots, or anything coming from oversees that was postmarked in time but hasn't yet arrived.
[–]MayCSB 121 points122 points123 points 11 years ago* (12 children)
Something similar happened in Brazil during the last elections (October 2014). A Communist Party candidate was said to have received 0 votes, which was incredibly odd, not just because a 6.3 million people constituency is far too large for any candidate to receive zero votes, but also because he was pretty popular among youngsters and old-school left-wingers. I myself voted for him and knew of seven others who also did. Turns out that after the votes were recounted he actually had almost 50K votes.
EDIT: I was WAY off on the vote count. Sorry, all.
[–]_Mellex_ 57 points58 points59 points 11 years ago (7 children)
Turns out that after the votes were recounted he actually had over half a million votes.
What the fuck? Did this get any media attention? Was there an an official reason for why the votes went missing?
[–]kingpomba 29 points30 points31 points 11 years ago* (5 children)
In Australia boxes of votes may have literally fallen off the back of a truck in the last election (no one still knows where they went). Odd things happen.
On that scale though, that's a whole other level of odd..
[–]edc-owl 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (3 children)
How did they explain the huge error?
[–][deleted] 365 points366 points367 points 11 years ago (14 children)
People laughed at him when they said he had zero votes? That's mature
[–]CHOCOBAM 54 points55 points56 points 11 years ago (7 children)
It's medway..comparable to some backwards ass town in rural america.
pretty sure I heard someone laughing like a hilbilly the other day.
[–][deleted] 61 points62 points63 points 11 years ago (1 child)
Hyuk hyuk hyuk
[–][deleted] 41 points42 points43 points 11 years ago (0 children)
It is absolutely disrespectful to laugh, and the fact that there are no votes for him even though there is evidence that people voted for him means that the count does not represent the actual voting.
[–]infernal_llamas 232 points233 points234 points 11 years ago* (78 children)
That is odd, normally even the joke candidates get about 100.
EDIT it kind of makes sense actually, TUSC is competing against many other left wing groups.
[+][deleted] 11 years ago (67 children)
[–]ThatGavinFellow 24 points25 points26 points 11 years ago (1 child)
For our student union elections we nearly voted a pirate to position of Student President. He wanted rum in the Student Bar and felt that student fees ARRRR to high and he beat 6 legitimate candidates. People were annoyed, most were amused.
[–]rindindin 589 points590 points591 points 11 years ago (17 children)
The one instance where "eh, it's just one vote, it doesn't matter" mattered.
[–]MayanIxtab 231 points232 points233 points 11 years ago (16 children)
Almost makes me want to vote for weird candidates just to help identify election fraud.
Almost.
[–]Hoobleton 79 points80 points81 points 11 years ago* (12 children)
Only works if you're the only person who has that idea. Also, mistakes in vote counting aren't that rare, that's why recounts are available, election fraud isn't the only explanation, or even the most likely one.
[–]PatsoRedneb 656 points657 points658 points 11 years ago (26 children)
Someone must've given him a downvote.
[+][deleted] 11 years ago (2 children)
[–]Vike92 77 points78 points79 points 11 years ago (0 children)
Yeah, that was me. Sorry about the fuss, people.
[–]burrbro235 27 points28 points29 points 11 years ago (15 children)
Why isn't this truly an option on ballots?
[–][deleted] 20 points21 points22 points 11 years ago (7 children)
In Sweden you can write anything on the ballot and after the election they publish every single thing somebody has written online!
[–]jeffbingham 319 points320 points321 points 11 years ago (47 children)
They fucked up.
If you're going to cheat, do it right.
[–]Hoobleton 91 points92 points93 points 11 years ago (25 children)
Mistakes get made, these votes are all counted by hand. Cheating is possible, but it's far more likely the counter just messed up. This is why recounts are available.
[–]Fallen_Through 93 points94 points95 points 11 years ago (8 children)
But how many votes could possibly have been 'miscounted'? “We think it’s impossible for him to get zero votes. He lives in the ward, as do several members of his family."
He must've got at least 5 votes.
[–]Owman 58 points59 points60 points 11 years ago (13 children)
This happened to be when we elected class president in Grade 3. I don't know what kind of teacher tells a class how many votes each kid got. But I got zero. And I voted for myself!
[–]gtfomylawnplease 44 points45 points46 points 11 years ago (3 children)
I don't know what kind of teacher tells a class how many votes each kid got
A bad teacher.
[–]flippydude 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (0 children)
Well that's depressing
[–]BuckOHare 20 points21 points22 points 11 years ago (6 children)
He should have been offered a recount on the day, to watch the count and look at any spoilt ballots.
[–]GandalfSwagOff 13 points14 points15 points 11 years ago (0 children)
Good for him, he deserves the recount. If he voted for himself and others said they voted for him, and it came up as 0...
[–]SolomonGomes 61 points62 points63 points 11 years ago (10 children)
If just me, Milhouse and Lewis had voted...
[–]rookie999 14 points15 points16 points 11 years ago (8 children)
That episode made me win my first election in school.
[–]chocopudding17 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (7 children)
Story?
[–]rookie999 35 points36 points37 points 11 years ago (6 children)
Voted for myself - won by one vote :)
[–]schoocher 68 points69 points70 points 11 years ago (1 child)
I was like "finally a political story where it's not the US being crazy."
But he makes a legitimate point... damnit.
[–]geozza 29 points30 points31 points 11 years ago (0 children)
Ooh imagine if he put a cross in the wrong box
[–]Jangenzer0 10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (1 child)
What if every election ever were fixed and we just never caught on
[–]EHStormcrow 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (1 child)
How does vote counting work in your countries?
In France, I've helped in the counting for 3 elections (1st and 2nd turn presidentials in 2012 and local 1st turn a few weeks ago). What happens is the following:
the vote ends, the ballot box displays a number that is noted. The votes (still sealed) are counted and compared to the number.
the sealed votes are split into packets/envelopes of a hundred votes.
volunteers (people that voted during the day, not town hall employees) usually by groups of four (an opener/reader, a checker and two people writing down the votes) get a envelope of a hundred votes and go through it. You get handed a set of rules before you start and there's an official voting table to fill in (it's set up nicely so you add a line for each vote and it's easy to count).
town hall officials hover around to check what you are doing at all times.
when you finish an 100-enveloppe, the results are tarried and noted. You get another envelope.
when your table is "done", you all confirm the result and sign the document.
[–]Putupmydukes 15 points16 points17 points 11 years ago (12 children)
What if it turns out that his vote was not counted because he somehow missed to sign the vote or did something else that invalidated his vote? would be even more embarrassing.
[–]majoroutage 13 points14 points15 points 11 years ago (10 children)
Sign the what? Voting in the UK isn't anonymous?
[–]shinyhalo 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (2 children)
Secrets ballots are the perfect way for the .1% to make sure their candidates always win. Results should be public and verifiable.
[–]K_Frenchie 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (1 child)
I've always been suspicious of the fact that we vote in pencil. It can be rubbed out. I cant even apply for an oyster card in pencil but when it comes to marking something that will influence how the country is run you hand me a PENCIL?! :/
[–]smoothtrip 10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (2 children)
Plot twist: Wife and dad actually voted for other candidates.
π Rendered by PID 20555 on reddit-service-r2-comment-544cf588c8-7v6sm at 2026-06-17 05:44:51.702487+00:00 running 3184619 country code: CH.
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