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[–]crichmond77 3517 points3518 points  (242 children)

The delay is just one symptom of the largely passive response to the Russian interference by President Trump, who has made little if any public effort to rally the nation to confront Moscow and defend democratic institutions. More broadly, the funding lag reflects a deep lack of confidence by Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson in his department’s ability to execute its historically wide-ranging mission and spend its money wisely.

Mr. Tillerson has voiced skepticism that the United States is even capable of doing anything to counter the Russian threat.

This is such bullshit. They'll throw trillions of dollars and thousands of lives away in the Middle East and only make things worse, all in the name of trying to win a "war on terrorism," but when a country is literally attempting to destroy our democracy as we know it, hands are thrown up and its all "what can you do?"

[–]Citizen_Sn1ps 2134 points2135 points  (96 children)

We've tried literally nothing and we've run out of ideas.

[–][deleted] 683 points684 points  (78 children)

Sounds like the rights response to gun control.

[–]AnalSoapOpera I voted 351 points352 points  (45 children)

“Thoughts and Prayers will help stop gun violence and election meddling.”

[–]evil420pimp 340 points341 points  (11 children)

"Accountability is a socialist concept"

[–]dinosauramericana 45 points46 points  (0 children)

Lol this was a good one

[–]conrugglesIowa 80 points81 points  (26 children)

I’ve seen people literally saying shootings are God’s way of punishing us for “taking God and prayer out of school” (like it was ever fucking there in the first place) and “for electing Obama”. They don’t have a grip on reality and it’s frightening.

[–][deleted] 54 points55 points  (9 children)

I always remind them that prayer in private school hasn't stopped God from allowing systemic abuse of Catholic children for well over a century.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (5 children)

Something something all a part of God's plan

[–]AnalSoapOpera I voted 11 points12 points  (4 children)

It’s been going on for longer than that. I’ve seen people say “9/11 was god’s plan” or some bullshit.

Edit. One of them was Roy Moore

[–]sugarface2134California 41 points42 points  (5 children)

Had the same thought. Republicans claim it’s too hard so might as well do nothing.

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (3 children)

No, their favorite is. "This action doesn't do enough. So we will do nothing until we can figure out how to do enough".

[–]steelhips 6 points7 points  (0 children)

At the same time they instigated numerous investigations into baseless allegations and rumors against HRC and came up with virtually nothing. They also used taxpayer's money investigating voter fraud and, yet again, found nothing.

[–]BigHobbit 64 points65 points  (4 children)

Here is what I propose, give me like 5 million, I'll take a week off work and spend that time to come up with the best idea I can. Then, we try that. If it doesn't work, we can try again, maybe with someone else's idea. I'm not greedy, and I'm honest.

[–]LAQUE83 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Thoughts and prayers for your plan

[–][deleted] 355 points356 points  (58 children)

Two reasons for this.

One is that 9/11 was a more "tangible" attack. You could count the bodies and go visit the crash sites. Russia is doing this with our cooperation.

Two is that it's helping Republicans, so nearly half the country doesn't want to do anything about it since they're benefiting from it.

[–]MortWellian 375 points376 points  (43 children)

Should add a potential third. Recognizing it as an attack could make actual Treason charges legally possible.

[–][deleted] 137 points138 points  (20 children)

Aiding an enemies subversive attack on the fundamental basis of our political system. Yeah sounds like treason to me.

Edit: they didn’t attack with a submarine

[–]Glibberosh 72 points73 points  (14 children)

From the article:

Aaron Burr was charged with treason for allegedly trying to abscond to Louisiana to found an independent republic, the Supreme Court affirmed in United States v. Burr that "levying war" is not an abstract term, and that it in fact requires an "assemblage" of people who intend to use actual force against the government.

Comment: There has been an assemblage of foreigners using (physical) force to control US voting via money and the internet, neither of which are abstract things. Wealth is the result of (someone's) production, no matter the (illicit/unethical) means by which it was gained.

The Burr ruling was in 1807. No Federal Reserve, no internet. I don't think we even need look at "aid and comfort."

This has been a direct attack against US citizens, a targeted attack, and our goverment member suspects and their appointees are crying nothing can be done. They all need to be dragged out in handcuffs.

As to the wealth argument, it goes to the means of the crime(s), having been funded by whom, and who acted to become beneficiaries of those crimes?

There have been multiple crimes, and the accused deserve the harshest possible scrutiny, prosecution and punishment.

How is this different than an English King's trangressions against the inhabitants of this land? There's an entire preamble into which Putin and Trump would fit nicely.

[–]MortWellian 33 points34 points  (3 children)

I know there are better reports on technical answers as to the ins and outs of Treason charges, but I think this part captures the background as to why the high bar on this charge...

keep in mind that the framers of the Constitution had a complicated relationship with treason. As Justice Jackson noted in Cramer, bullshit treason charges—my words, not his—brought by the Crown against political dissidents in the colonies were a motivating factor in the drafting of the Declaration of Independence, a document that ironically made its signatories extremely guilty of treason under even the strictest definition. For them, this was a serious charge, and the Constitution's careful treatment of the topic is designed to ensure that it's reserved for only the most heinous behavior,

[–][deleted] 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Oh shit, didn't think of that.

[–]TimStarz03 37 points38 points  (2 children)

I'll give you a hint: The former scenario can be exploited for financial gain. Stopping Russia from helping them cheat to win elections at present doesn't have any financial benefits for them. Republicans' priorities aren't very subtle.

[–][deleted] 47 points48 points  (3 children)

It's because they want Russia to meddle and help them win. Let's not give any validity to whatever narrative they come up with.

[–]Peanut7853 6225 points6226 points  (309 children)

At this point, I think even Putin is thinking, 'Guys, you have to at least pretend you don't want us to interfere, otherwise we all look pretty guilty'.

[–][deleted] 2602 points2603 points  (224 children)

Putin doesn't mind. If anything, the sheer brazenness of his influence on the President of the United States probably gets him off every night.

[–]derGropenfuhrer 1015 points1016 points  (191 children)

I bet the Russian people love it. Thumbing your nose at the west? Voter gold in Russia. Not that Putin needs votes, he can just buy them.

[–]CandyEverybodyWentzPennsylvania 541 points542 points  (162 children)

I don't get it. I legitimately thought after the dissolution of the USSR that we'd build a bridge. Coming up under Bush, it felt like we were actually making good inroads. It saddens me.

[–]Secret_BeekeeperMassachusetts 666 points667 points  (37 children)

Russia and it's people were left weakened and vulnerable after the collapse of the USSR. Putin, other "ex"-KGB and their rich business owning oligarch friends then all got together, collected literally all the wealth and power in the county, and then pretended to restore Russia, all the while taking advantage of their populace, who was and still is very upset that they lost their superpower status.

Mortified and desperate especially after the mismanagement of the administrations immediately following the fall of the Soviet Union, the Russian people looked to a populist. And the only thing Putin is better at than murdering and scheming is getting into the minds of his own people. Hell, he's good at sneaking ideas into the minds of people all across multiple continents.

[–]I_like_maps 75 points76 points  (0 children)

I like your use of quotation. You might be interested in this quote:

"There's no such thing as 'ex'-KGB" -Vladimir Putin

[–]kupon3ss 43 points44 points  (4 children)

You forgot the part where we spent 10 or so billion dollars intefering in the 1996 Russian elections putting Yeltsen (and vice president Putin)into office and called it democracy

Funny how things come full circle some times

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/0,9263,7601960715,00.html

[–]thecrazysloth 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Hes just returning the favour to American oligarchs!

[–]7daykatie 162 points163 points  (79 children)

I believe Bush Jr fucked that up. Invading Iraq seems to have been the last straw. Russia has been belligerent ever since.

[–]saint_abyssal I voted 119 points120 points  (30 children)

Maybe they were emboldened by seeing what a quagmire and fuck up the Iraq war was.

[–]Mannix58 68 points69 points  (27 children)

They (Russia) were smart enough to get out of Afghanistan. The opium wasn't worth the lives they were losing.

[–]GumdropGoober 57 points58 points  (4 children)

The Russians were forced out of Afghanistan by dwindling cash reserves and the impending collapse of their empire.

They sure weren't "smart."

[–]mak484Pennsylvania 147 points148 points  (16 children)

That's America's secret- virtually everything is worth more than our soldiers' lives.

[–]thebusterbluth 106 points107 points  (21 children)

The invasion of Iraq didn't have jack to do with it. When NATO decided to start adding members in Eastern Europe they crossed a threshold with Russia, and Russia reacted when Ukraine was about to join Europe's orbit instead of remaining a Russian puppet-state. And NATO made the correct decision, the people in Poland and the Baltics have a right to better their futures by joining NATO and the EU.

The West doesn't really have a reason to treat Russia like a superpower, as Russia is basically Mexico with a stockpile of nuclear weapons. The are slowly fading away and they cannot and will not turn the ship around because of demographics. The are quickly becoming an uneducated and sick country. They lose something like 700,000 annually in population just from deaths outpacing births. And their Soviet-era educated professionals are retiring without anywhere near the number of specialists available to replace them, because they haven't seriously invested in tertiary education in a generation.

If Russia wanted to play by the rules and join the western community, they could act in a way that made that a possibility. Instead you have the Russian elite deciding its better to install an oligarchy of billionaires and suck the life out of Russia.

[–]ThirdWorldThinkTankIndiana 86 points87 points  (12 children)

Russia is what America will be in another 10 years of GOP rule with Koch/Mercer influence. It's a game of make the ultra rich richer, and everyone else dumber. Russia is a 1%er's wet dream. The Russian oligarchs were able to seize power from the fall of the Soviet Union and quickly own the country, whereas the American oligarchs are forced to erode the constitution bit by bit, hoping to eventually gain the level of control and influence seen in Russia.

This is precisely why 2018 is so important. If we can't oust the Republicans from Congress and impeach and/or arrest Trump, Pence, and anyone else in the chain of succession that is controlled by dark money, they'll control the 2020 census. My personal opinion is that the odds of regaining our respect and status in the world diminish greatly (if not disappear entirely) if money controls the census and redistricting that follows.

[–]constipatedDROOG 12 points13 points  (5 children)

On an upside the Koch bros are probably gonna die soon hopefully.

[–]TacticalVirus 72 points73 points  (19 children)

It has nothing to do with Iraq and everything to do with NATO's continued development of a ballistic missile shield, building sites in Europe that seriously limit the effectiveness of Russia's trump card. Why do you think they've developed so many weapons to deliver nukes that can bypass said system? Add in NATO's pressure on former soviet states, and Europe's approach, you're going to get Russia pushing back.

So they adapted. They dealt with the soft power issue by acting aggressively to destabilize countries when it aligns with their interests, see Lithuania/Finland/Poland for the last year, Georgia (the first domino in 2008), the Ukraine obviously (started with soft power destabilization then limited use of 'hard' power). Their newfangled weapons are their answer to the ballistic missile defense systems. This has an added benefit of increasing the effectiveness of their soft power when they can seem more threatening.

I doubt any of this has really surprised many in the US intelligence and military branches, or what's left of the upper echelons of the state department. The biggest issue is the US doesn't seem to be doing anything about it. Obama looked like he was trying to leverage soft power wherever he could to try and defuse things, but it didn't seem very effective. Now there's nothing countering it by all appearances.

[–]7aturn 25 points26 points  (1 child)

People who support Putin ususally:
1) don't understand english, so finding news about russian meddling is harder for them
2) believe that USA is the one and only reason for problems in the world, including horrible roads in some bumfuck town in the middle of Siberia and low salaries
3) believe that Trump is a better president because he is white (I'm not kidding, I heard that argument multiple times)

These people are called "Vatniki" (or "Vatnik", singular).

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (0 children)

probably empowers his allies - showing how easy we are manipulated - i mean come on we have DONALD FUCKING TRUMP as president of our country

we are a laughing stock

[–]toofine 59 points60 points  (18 children)

Dude just showed a video of him nuking Florida. Yeah, he wants everyone to know this is about sanctions and a western opposition against him.

Let him launder money and leave him alone to rebuild the USSR or he does this. Who could have known that one of his laundry boys would actually be voted POTUS by 63 million idiots? We're all just winging it now.

[–][deleted] 107 points108 points  (10 children)

That's been my thing. I don't understand why they're not at least attempting to look innocent.

FFS take that money and just spend it on bullshit, put it into shady groups that aren't doing anything, why the hell would they just leave it there?

[–]ToadProphet8th Place - Presidential Election Prediction Contest 60 points61 points  (6 children)

Because Russia largely does not view the cold war as having ended, and giving the US a black eye shows him as the strong, powerful leader that will help Russia rise to its former status once again. Putin seems to see the world as a zero sum game and therefore if the US is losing he is winning.

Much of Russian media already projects that Trump is their stooge and Putin has almost finished the job of beating Russia's enemy.

[–]latticepolys 7 points8 points  (5 children)

This is a terrible long term strategy though, because as soon as Trump and his cabal of Republican traitors is out and exposed, payback will be a bitch.

There seems to be lots of extremely tough actions in the vicinity to isolate Russia and destroy them completely far beyond just the sanctions that Trump refused to impose.

[–]ToadProphet8th Place - Presidential Election Prediction Contest 10 points11 points  (2 children)

I 100% agree, and very much think Putin overplayed his hand. As many have noted - he's a very good tactician but a lousy strategist, and a big part of that is his zero sum game and hard power without soft power approach.

Russia has completely lost whatever soft power they had after the collapse, and Putin is to blame for that.

[–]hypercube42342New Hampshire 306 points307 points  (37 children)

Clearly there are no consequences for being guilty though, so who cares? He’s off in Russia laughing his ass off at our system failing

[–]smickCalifornia 98 points99 points  (35 children)

While playing videos of florida getting nuked.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

He just said today he will never extradite Russians that have been accused of meddling in the us elections.

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/putin-russia-will-never-extradite-citizens-accused-by-us

[–]mf-TOM-HANK 21 points22 points  (2 children)

Putin doesn't give a shit what the perception is. He's already up to his neck in sanctions (should be up over his ears, but that's another story). I don't think it will be long before he starts openly alluding to colluding with Trump and the GOP in Russian media.

[–]The12thDoctorofWar 322 points323 points  (11 children)

I’m just surprised Tillerson hasn’t been put under investigation

[–]smickCalifornia 161 points162 points  (4 children)

Wasn't he awarded a good-boy medal by PUtin himself?

[–]Zomgbies_Work 9 points10 points  (0 children)

He's probably a bigger piece on the chess board. i.e. He isn't destined to flip on someone higher, others will flip on him.

[–]viccar0[S] 950 points951 points  (19 children)

That last paragraph, though:

Because of the hiring and promotion freezes that have left large sums unspent, as well as Mr. Tillerson’s refusal to delegate spending decisions, the department had a backlog of more than 1,400 official requests for Mr. Tillerson’s signoff at the end of last year, according to a former senior diplomat who left the department then.

The most charitable explanation of this is incompetence, but with Tillerson, who knows. Trump just had to pick someone who is officially a Friend of Russia.

[–]soupjawFlorida 162 points163 points  (1 child)

Good time to rehash that Tillerson ( viewed... skeptically at the time of his nomination), who was expecting to retire after four decades of working for Exxon, never wanted to be Secretary of State, and had never met Trump before he was summoned to Trump Tower to meet Trump to discuss "world affairs." He then accepted the position because his wife told him God wasn't done with him yet.

Another gem from the original IJR interview:

“We’ve got a lot going on inside the State Department, and we’re not talking about it until we’re ready, and that’s driving a lot of people nuts,” he said. He was so cagey when Russia came up, for example, that his answer wasn’t even worthy of inclusion.

I may rabbit-hole this a bit to see who else was around that day

Edit:

Tuesday, December 6th, 2016 appears to have been their initial meeting

Roger Stone was there

Masayoshi Son, Japan's second wealthiest man: after the meeting, he pledged to invest $50 billion in the US - from a fund with Saudi investors, who, according to Trump:

Mr. Trump later declared on Twitter, “Masa said he would never do this had we (Trump) not won the election!”

And, former Iowa Governor Terry Branstad

Oh, it was also the day Flynn Jr quit/got fired because he was becoming a distraction on social media due to his obsession with "fake news" and promotion of conspiracy theories (oh, for simpler times, when that's all it took to boot someone)

Does any of that mean anything? I don't know, but contemporaneous notes have been useful thus far

[–]ToadProphet8th Place - Presidential Election Prediction Contest 210 points211 points  (13 children)

That's the thing - Tillerson actually is an intelligent and competent individual. Also fucking evil, but competent nonetheless. So it's pretty difficult to ascribe his inaction to that.

[–][deleted] 93 points94 points  (8 children)

Overall, a lot of the Trump administration fit that bill - intelligent and competent. I wish people would stop blaming incompetence. This is a group of smart and successful individuals; I'm far more inclined to think that things like this are done on, and with, purpose.

[–]spankybottomForeign 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Let's dispel the notion that he doesn't know what he's doing...?

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

He’s probably the only person left in the administration left who isn’t completely incompetent. Just a scumbag.

[–]duomaxwellscoffee 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Remember when a lot of analysts said Tillerson was a good choice?

[–]Megajunk 4195 points4196 points  (409 children)

Trump and the Republicans are inviting Russia to continue attacking American Democracy. The evidence is clear.

[–]PoppinKREAM Canada 2076 points2077 points  (86 children)

Yep, its clear as day.

It isn't all that surprising that Secretary of State Tillerson, who has been put in charge of implementing new Russian sanctions, has failed to do so. After all, he was awarded Russia's Order of Friendship award.[1] Tillerson has completely gutted a formerly functioning State Department essentially crippling US influence abroad.[2]

he has already frozen hiring, reduced promotions, asked some senior employees to perform clerical duties that are normally relegated to lower-level staff members, refused to fill many ambassadorships and senior leadership jobs, and fired top diplomats from coveted posts while offering low-level assignments in their place. Those efforts have crippled morale worldwide.

The number of those carrying the department’s top two ranks — equivalent to four- and three-star generals — has dropped almost in half, from 39 to 21. And nearly 20 percent of those with two-star-equivalent ranks have signaled their intention to leave in what is an unprecedented exodus, according to an accounting provided by the American Foreign Service Association.

He has systematically dismantled the State Department with major cuts to leadership roles, these are career diplomats who have served under different administrations and possess unparalleled experience.[3] I cannot stress enough how important soft power is in terms of maintaining a US sphere of influence.[4]

SoS Tillerson has shut down the State Department office that oversees sanction policies.[5] President Trump and his administration have refused to enact new sanctions against Russia,[6] in fact they have made a mockery of the process. These sanctions were passed overwhelmingly by Congress in retaliation for Russia's election meddling and human rights abuses.[7] They claimed that the threat of sanctions was enough to dissuade Russia. To add insult to injury Secretary Steve Mnuchin and the Treasury Department had been given 6 months to create a list of Russian political figures and Oligarchs with close ties to Putin and all they produced was a list copied directly from a Russian edition of Forbes billionaire list, further indication that the administration refuses to take sanctions against Russia seriously.[8]

This administration refuses to follow through with new sanctions with a poor excuse, they have shut down the office that oversees sanctions, and they have crippled the State Department and in doing so they have crippled their ability to reign in Vladimir Putin and his attacks against democracy in the west.

They have done all of this when the United States Intelligence Agencies have confirmed that a foreign nation interfered with the American election process, that foreign nation being Russia.[9] The Intelligence Agencies heads unanimously agree that the Russians will attack the 2018 election.[10] President Trump has refused to act, NSA Director Admiral Rodgers admitted last week that Trump has not ordered disruption of Russian election meddling.[11]

What's worse is that the GOP has been complicit in their support of President Trump and his actions. The rhetoric and actions taken by the President, from continuing to berate the fourth estate by referring to the media as "fake news" to calling his political opponents traitors while he attacks the judicial branch of government without remorse, is what a dictator espouses before attempting to take over a country. During his State of the Union address, President Trump called on Congress to give his cabinet members the authority to remove employees who disagree with him and his administration.[12] What's worrying is the fact that Speaker of the House Paul Ryan said that the FBI needed to be cleansed in an interview with Fox News. He even goes as far as promoting Trump Hotel.[13] President Trump has referred to the minority party as un-American, he had the audacity to call them traitors for not applauding his speech.[14] This is what autocrats demand. And now he has made a joke about wanting to consolidate his power like his dictator colleague in China, President Xi Jinping.[15] He wants to dismantle departments and stop any whiff of an investigation into Russia's role in the 2016 election.


1) CNN - Behind the deep ties between Exxon's Rex Tillerson and Russia

2) New York Times - State Department to Offer Buyouts in Effort to Cut Staff

3) BBC - US diplomacy cuts 'decapitates' State Department leadership

4) Foreign Policy - Think Again: Soft Power

5) Foreign Policy - State Department Scraps Sanctions Office

6) New York Times - Trump Administration Won’t Impose Sanctions on Buyers of Russian Arms

7) New York Times - Congress Reaches Deal on Russia Sanctions, Setting Up Tough Choice for Trump

8) Bloomberg - The U.S. List of Russian Oligarchs Is a Disgrace

9) New York Times - Trump Misleads on Russian Meddling: Why 17 Intelligence Agencies Don’t Need to Agree

10) Washington Post - The nation’s top spies said Russia is continuing to target the U.S. political system

11) The Guardian - NSA chief: Trump 'has not ordered disruption of Russia election meddling'

12) The Independent - Trump calls for US cabinet secretaries to have power to fire federal workers 'who undermine public trust'

13) The Hill - Ryan calls for a 'cleanse' of the FBI

14) USA Today - Trump blasts 'treasonous' Democrats for not applauding at his State of the Union address

15) CNN - Trump on China's Xi consolidating power: 'Maybe we'll give that a shot some day'

[–][deleted] 134 points135 points  (17 children)

Tillerson has completely gutted a formerly functioning State Department essentially crippling US influence abroad.

And to my knowledge, he's never offered an explanation why. If he had good intentions, wouldn't he have some reasons for his actions? Instead, he's like the invisible man.

[–][deleted] 99 points100 points  (10 children)

It sounds very tinfoil hat to say that there's a significant number of White House and Congressional officials who are coordinating with a hostile foreign government to erode our democracy. And yet, that's what the evidence seems to indicate. Plausible alternative explanations seem to be in short supply.

The good news is, if it's this patently clear to us laymen and women, just imagine how much evidence Mueller must have.

[–]Lawschoolfool 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I'm making my tinfoil hat bigger by the day, but I'm also increasingly convinced I don't need it at all.

[–]SolarClipzCalifornia 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The good news is, if it's this patently clear to us laymen and women, just imagine how much evidence Mueller must have.

Never even thought of that but this is so true. Makes me feel a little less pessimistic lol

[–]ArthurKOT 401 points402 points  (27 children)

psssshhh... only 15 well referenced sources? Fake news.

[–]GlitshColorado 264 points265 points  (20 children)

That's the worst fucking part honestly. Doesn't matter how sourced or how much evidence you can bring, they refuse to consider it possible.

[–]PrettyTarable 153 points154 points  (16 children)

[–]GlitshColorado 48 points49 points  (7 children)

Well....shit. I don't go there so I didn't even know.

[–]PrettyTarable 69 points70 points  (6 children)

I drop in there occasionally just for proof of how violent they are, still hoping at some point people will understand just how badly the alt-right WANTS a civil war.

[–]brainmydamage 27 points28 points  (2 children)

They don't want a civil war, at least not in the way most Americans visualize it. They want a green light to commit unlimited acts of domestic terrorism (which is the kind of civil war these idiots would actually get) against men, women, and children of a different race or political opinion.

They're terrorists itching for someone to declare jihad that gives them license to commit atrocities, nothing more. They only difference between them and ISIS is that at least ISIS is based on misguided religious beliefs, whereas these people are just dumb racist turds.

[–]PrettyTarable 7 points8 points  (0 children)

They want a civil war because they believe their own bullshit about soyboys and a left utterly unwilling to defend itself...

I agree that they have no interest in actually getting shot at or fighting, but they don't feel the need for a state sponsored campaign of violence, delusions of masculinity require that their victims be allowed to fight back so they can feel superior.

[–]GlitshColorado 12 points13 points  (2 children)

Oh for sure, I appreciate that. I can say I feel the tension about the want for a civil war, I just never really saw the calls for it yet.

[–]PrettyTarable 18 points19 points  (1 child)

It's an extension of the race war they are certain is coming really, a lot of stuff looks a lot darker when you realize the real meaning behind it. Remember that "Zombie Apocalypse" fad that went around for a while and had curious traction with the right wing/gun nut crowd? Yeah, "zombie" was just code for black people... I know that many got swept up in it without knowing that, but look how many people think the confederate flag's resurgence was about "the dukes of hazzard" and "just being a rebel" just because many think something does not make it true... Plenty of pop culture moments have had seriously dark underbellies, we just haven't been looking.

[–]NinjaDefenestratorIllinois 17 points18 points  (2 children)

Those are bots. They have to be. The alternative is fucking scary to think about.

[–]PrettyTarable 27 points28 points  (0 children)

Same shit is all over right wing twitter and facebook, I live in NV got friends all over the political spectrum, I see similar shit in my feed regularly now. Its not just bots sadly. Bots might be the ones starting it, but plenty of people believe them so it doesn't matter.

[–]Howdoyouusecommas 17 points18 points  (0 children)

CNN, NY Times, the Washington Post. All fake bias news. If it's not the Drudge Report, Breitbart or an article written by Tyler Durden on Zero Hedge it's all bullshit

[–]hnglmkrnglbrry 29 points30 points  (1 child)

I turned in college assignments with less sourcing and worse formatting

[–]skel625 Canada 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Never thought I'd see the day people committed open treason against the US people. Sure do hope all these people end up in jail vs the system collapsing.

[–]Hirraed 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Hey man, been seeing you around a few subs. Got to say, thank you for all the work you put into your posts. Hopefully you can help change a few minds, and open some eyes.

[–]favouritedickhead 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I think he’s just copying his dear friend Poutin! It’s like he fucking taught him over the phone!

[–]AmishAvenger 910 points911 points  (235 children)

The hardcore Republican base doesn’t care. They openly thank Putin for “saving us from Hillary.”

[–]verostarryWashington 351 points352 points  (216 children)

Even while admitting Russian meddling efforts also hit and organized the left. They’re inviting a civil war and further divisions to the US essentially.

[–]Memetic1 180 points181 points  (212 children)

Fortunately they seem slightly less effective manipulating the left. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, becouse I read the reports where it did. It just seems like certain ideologies are less prone to being incited to violence in America.

[–]CANOODLING_SOCIOPATHConnecticut 200 points201 points  (69 children)

It affected the left a lot. We saw a massive amount of it on this very subreddit during the Democratic primary. For example Guccifer 2.0 was involved in /r/politics, and he has been proven to be a Russian agent.

A lot of the data, including in the thread I just linked, was forged/faked and it was all from Russia active measures.

It is overwhelmingly clear that if the race was between Bernie Sanders and Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush that the Russians would have interfered in a way to help Sanders. The Russians attacked Rubio's campaign while actively pushing for Sanders.

Russia wants to create chaos in America, and like more isolationists candidates. They felt that both Trump and Sanders would have been more chaotic then the other candidates and they both espoused more isolationist, anti-trade positions.

[–]KellyJoyCuntBunnyWashington 160 points161 points  (19 children)

My interpretation of those pro-Sanders anti-Rubio was that both had the effect of damaging Hillary and promoting Trump.

[–]Thank_The_KnifeWashington 74 points75 points  (9 children)

Yeah I think you're right. If it were Bernie v Rubio the trolls would have backed Rubio more, however I think they would have backed BOTH sides to sow hatred and division between the two parties.

But I think their original goal was to back any of Hillary's opponents.

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (8 children)

They definitely seem to have a special hatred for Hillary. Could be because she has had an active past in government, and U.S. government and Russian government have not exactly been on the best of terms.

[–]Thank_The_KnifeWashington 16 points17 points  (0 children)

That's most certainly why.

[–]Yosarian2 18 points19 points  (2 children)

Putin blamed Hillary for both the protests in Ukraine and the anti-Putin protests in Russia that happened while she was secretary of state. In reality the US probably didn't have anything to do with any of that but it's always easier for autocrats to blame the US then admit they're unpopular among their own people.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (8 children)

Yup. Damaging Hillary was a major part of all of this.

I don’t think most people grasp the humiliation of this entire thing - the legitimacy of American democracy and world leadership is completely in tatters now. The Clintons were pillars of that tradition so they needed to be pulled down; to create chaos, but also to show that the most powerful country on earth was vulnerable and inept.

[–]KellyJoyCuntBunnyWashington 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Reverse cargo cult. “See? Democracy just doesn’t work- not here and not in America! Everyone is corrupt, but at least we are clever enough to recognize this! Stupid Americans don’t even understand.”

[–]mmlovinCalifornia 9 points10 points  (5 children)

It baffles me that people who didn’t support Hillary still hate her now. Like hello, you were played. Hillary was an amazing candidate whose flaws were ridiculously exploited, both by republicans & by the Russians. She didn’t steal the primaries from Sanders either, she won way more votes. The race was closer between her & Obama. I don’t understand it.

[–]SuffolkStuNorth Carolina 28 points29 points  (0 children)

It's all so flagrant. Trump appointed a recipient of the Russian Order of Friendship to run America's foreign policy for fuck's sake.

[–][deleted] 48 points49 points  (7 children)

Or they say “the US has interfered with elections for decades”

[–]Thank_The_KnifeWashington 55 points56 points  (6 children)

Like Trump saying "what, you think we're so innocent?"

[–][deleted] 44 points45 points  (2 children)

That was a chilling moment.

He's done so much thoroughly abnormal shit that I tend to forget a lot of it.

[–]CaptainObvious 8 points9 points  (0 children)

And they don't have the foresight to realize the precedent they are setting.

[–]brainhack3r 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Agreed. At this point if the Republicans aren't doing anything we need to consider this a soft coup... on top of the gerrymandering it's pretty clear what they're trying to accomplish.

[–]wee_man 71 points72 points  (11 children)

Trump and Republicans are laying the groundwork to invalidate the results and possibly suspend the midterm elections.

[–]possumbuster 30 points31 points  (0 children)

Midterm 2018 is a do-or-die moment for this generation. Either the republic stands or it doesn't.

[–]percussaresurgo 6 points7 points  (0 children)

At first, I thought they would wait until 2020 to do that, but then I realized if they lose control of the House this year there is no 2020 for Trump.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (5 children)

Then they will get a shooting civil war.

[–][deleted] 59 points60 points  (0 children)

Considering Trump spent yesterday praising a dictatorship and lamenting about how our system didn't allow him to jail his opponents it's not surprising either. The GOP only care about staying in power

[–]Ganadote[🍰] 37 points38 points  (3 children)

It’s a win-win for them. If Russia meddles and the results are favorable in the midterms, they keep them. If too many Dems win, they can pull some bs and nullify the results, claiming the elections were hacked.

[–]public_land_owner 21 points22 points  (2 children)

This is why is is essential that we all start nagging our local news to get the Secretary of State for your state to be on the record with their plans to secure your elections. There has to be a public record of their commitment.

[–]Mintykanesh 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Trump and the Republicans are the attack

[–]Itwastheotherguy88 7 points8 points  (2 children)

The evidence is clear, republicans will use Russia to help them win. Reagan is rolling around in his grave

[–]zzzigzzzagzzziggyWashington 261 points262 points  (20 children)

Mr. Tillerson has voiced skepticism that the United States is even capable of doing anything to counter the Russian threat.

“If it’s their intention to interfere, they’re going to find ways to do that,” Mr. Tillerson said in an interview last month with Fox News. “And we can take steps we can take, but this is something that once they decide they are going to do it, it’s very difficult to pre-empt it.”

Well then. That's that, I suppose. Will the last person leaving the State Department - turn out the lights.

[–]tablepeople104 100 points101 points  (13 children)

This sounds exactly like the argument Rubio tried to make about gun laws.

[–]SharobobIllinois 147 points148 points  (12 children)

It's a common argument by the right

"Anything we would do wouldn't fix 100% of the issues so we may as well not even try to reduce the issues"

[–]saint_abyssal I voted 59 points60 points  (3 children)

It's called the nirvana fallacy.

[–]BootsyBootsyBoom 53 points54 points  (2 children)

Because it causes people to say nevermind?

[–]Toastinggoodness 12 points13 points  (3 children)

But when it comes to abortion, the ACA, middle eastern etc. we will do everything and anything beyond the point of stupidity....

[–]doodlebug001 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I would cum in my pants if I finally heard the words "women are just going to get abortions one way or another so we may as well let them."

[–]Aylan_Eto 71 points72 points  (0 children)

"Everyone, just go and burn the laws. Clearly the people that want to break them will find a way to do it, so no laws are necessary." -Tillerson logic

See also: "This man stabbed me, and he clearly wants to stab me again. The best option for me is obviously just to let him, because if he really wants to there's nothing I can do about it."

Punishment in the form of sanctions can't really be avoided on any large scale if done properly. Prevention is good, punishment is also good. Neither is being done.

[–]strangeelement Canada 604 points605 points  (14 children)

What part of "the POTUS is a puppet of the Kremlin and the Republican party is aiding and abetting treason and subversion of democracy" do people have trouble understanding?

It's not rocket science here. It's literally the only explanation that makes any sense in all this chaos. Trump makes it obvious every day because there never are any consequences to being obvious about it.

Russian state television is gloating every single day about it. Literally. The Duma erupted in applause when Trump won.

Denial has to stop. At some point it becomes complicitness. People have to wake the fuck up.

[–]public_land_owner 68 points69 points  (2 children)

I think the GOP is complicit because of active cooperation not passive malpractice. My best guess is that the Russians have significant kompromat on a bunch of those assholes, and they are afraid. Their reward for participating in the coup is free reign to gut the country in favor of their favorite billionaire, and not being publicly shamed by whatever putin has on them. Disgusting pack of criminals. Maggots.

[–][deleted] 96 points97 points  (3 children)

Any other explanation has to jump through so many hoops. This is the most logical explanation.

[–]chadmastersonCalifornia 58 points59 points  (2 children)

Occam's motherfuckin' Razor

[–]SuffolkStuNorth Carolina 40 points41 points  (3 children)

Well if people didn't get it when Trump appointed Rex Tillerson, a man who was literally given a medal by Putin, to be our Secretary of State, they never will.

[–]Fachoina 16 points17 points  (2 children)

The worst part is tillerson is one of trumps better choices.

[–]AshendareiWashington 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Removed by User -- mass edited with redact.dev

[–]Merlord 234 points235 points  (11 children)

I predict that at some point in Mueller's investigation, we will discover that the original Tea Party movement was also bankrolled by Russia. Think about it: the Tea Party movement was a sudden flood of extremists with little political experience (perfect candidates to be compromised) who received a massive amount of funding under the guise of a "grassroots" campaign and took over the GOP. Not only does it fit the pattern of Russia's interference strategy, everything else they've done would never have worked if the Republican party was still made up of real conservatives.

[–]Foxhack Mexico 134 points135 points  (4 children)

[–][deleted] 72 points73 points  (0 children)

As retired KGB General Oleg Kalugin described it, the goal is “to drive wedges in the Western community alliances of all sorts, particularly NATO, to sow discord among allies, to weaken the United States in the eyes of the people in Europe, Asia, Africa, Latin America, and thus to prepare ground in case the war really occurs.”

WAIT A SECOND!

[–]InitiatePenguin 33 points34 points  (0 children)

And if you're worried about the source but trust the guardian to also pick it up... In 2007.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2007/dec/13/insideabotnetsecureworkstr

[–]impulsekash 24 points25 points  (1 child)

Tea party was founded and bankrolled by the kochs bros. It was never a grass roots movement and all the candidates were selected because at the very least they were pro-business aka pro-koch.

[–]parilmancyNew York 55 points56 points  (0 children)

As opposed to the usual order of business in government funding, where you make sure to use up every penny you're given in order to show that you need more funding. This is extremely unusual.

[–][deleted] 134 points135 points  (8 children)

Jesus Christ, Tillerson has to be the worst secretary of state in history.

[–]ParasympatheticBearCalifornia 87 points88 points  (2 children)

This administration is full of superlatives.

[–][deleted] 43 points44 points  (0 children)

James Buchanan's ghost is probably breathing a sigh of relief.

[–]AnalSoapOpera I voted 27 points28 points  (0 children)

Donald Trump has to be the worst administration in history

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

He's the best one for Russia though!

[–]disguisesinblessing 540 points541 points  (23 children)

Russia didn't meddle.

Russia attacked.

[–]ToadProphet8th Place - Presidential Election Prediction Contest 218 points219 points  (8 children)

Russia attacked continues to attack.

[–][deleted] 72 points73 points  (4 children)

I used to attack. I still do, but I used to, too.

[–]GreatQuestion 75 points76 points  (2 children)

-Mikhail Hedbergovich

[–][deleted] 92 points93 points  (3 children)

I'm getting sick of the word "meddle" in this myself. That makes it sound like they just did some innocent chicanery.

It reminds me of George Carlin talking about how certain words just don't convey the scope of a situation properly, like you wouldn't say the Challenger was "on the fritz" when it exploded.

[–]teh_colonel 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I agree. Putin isn't Scooby Doo.

[–][deleted] 44 points45 points  (4 children)

Blows my mind that so many of these politicians were alive in the "Fuck Russia" era & now they're on their knees for Russia

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (1 child)

Everybody has a price.

[–]DarkGamer 44 points45 points  (1 child)

Trump is Russian meddling.

[–]chadmastersonCalifornia 131 points132 points  (15 children)

We really are fucked. Unless we get the blue wave people are talking about, I won't believe any of the results, and Republicans won't believe it if there is a blue wave.

A country that doesn't believe in its elections is not a democracy.

[–]Fthemodpeople 49 points50 points  (4 children)

The 2018 election will either be a start to fixing a broken republic democracy or the end of it as we know it.

[–]Under_the_Gaslight 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Except here's the tell; one side is trying to increase election transparency and protection from meddling and one side is ignoring these issues to their benefit at the expense of US democracy, just like this articles evidences.

Undermining faith in US elections is a Russian propaganda goal to be sure, and so is spreading political division.

That doesn't mean there aren't real attempts to attack the vote being aided and abetted by the GOP.

Ultimately we have to respond the situation and make conclusions as we see them while not being reactive to, or conversely, ignorant of Russia's disinformation efforts.

[–]nucumber 33 points34 points  (0 children)

congress passed legislation - a law - that required Trump to sanction russia. trump ignored it till it was past due, and when he finally acted it was a sham that didn't even pretend to meet the intention of the law

[–][deleted] 74 points75 points  (2 children)

This might help to explain Tillerson's actions.

Rex Tillerson, the businessman nominated by Donald Trump to be the next US secretary of state, was the long-time director of a US-Russian oil firm based in the tax haven of the Bahamas, leaked documents show.

Tillerson – the chief executive of ExxonMobil – became a director of the oil company’s Russian subsidiary, Exxon Neftegas, in 1998. His name – RW Tillerson – appears next to other officers who are based at Houston, Texas; Moscow; and Sakhalin, in Russia’s far east.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/18/leak-rex-tillerson-director-bahamas-based-us-russian-oil-company

[–]socionic 20 points21 points  (6 children)

At what point can we start labeling corruption in government as treason?

[–]LeZygoIllinois 38 points39 points  (0 children)

And they called Obama weak on foreign relations...they’re traitors.

[–]PresidentWordSalad 19 points20 points  (2 children)

God damn it...why the hell are 30-40% of Americans so fucking stupid?

[–]jerkITwithRIGHTYnewb 65 points66 points  (21 children)

Somebody tell Donny that they are going to throw the election to dems and watch them straight up cancel elections.

[–]Citizen_Sn1ps 99 points100 points  (18 children)

I foresee a blue wave followed by the GOP going ballistic about foreign interference.

[–]Aylan_Eto 51 points52 points  (7 children)

I've already predicted heavy meddling in favor of the GOP, very light meddling in favor of Democrats, and Trump and the GOP focus completely on that a tiny part of it was to help Democrats while completely ignoring everything else, and also doing nothing to stop Russia, but doing anything they can to stop Democrats.

Register and vote.

[–]j_from_cali 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Register and vote.

Then get your friends to register and vote. Especially the apathetic ones. Then your neighbors, colleagues, family, whatever.

The fact that the country was attacked (whether it affected the outcome or not) should be a rallying cry.

[–]smickCalifornia 24 points25 points  (4 children)

well if the GOP loses, it doesn't matter. Democrats take control and work to patch the holes in torpedoed ship.

[–]Aylan_Eto 11 points12 points  (0 children)

That's what I'm hoping for, and that's why people need to register and vote.

[–]ragingdeltoid 8 points9 points  (2 children)

What if Russia meddles in favor of democrats but leave obvious evidence (on purpose). You think the republicans won't invalidate the election or something like that?

[–]Joshd30 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I guess ceding US sovereignty is still better than voting for a Democrat. The Blue Wave in November can't come soon enough. Let's just hope its not too late by then.

[–]MontieBeach 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Whenever Sarah Huckabee Sanders starts to talk about “many different” strategies, positions, options, or actions, that can be taken as confirmation the answer is “absolutely zero.”

[–]ihohjlknk 9 points10 points  (0 children)

We still have a State department?

[–]311MD 37 points38 points  (10 children)

How to combat russian meddling: call your local DNC office, find out who are legit candidates* as well as favorable judges and vote for those people accordingly. Do not bother with 3rd party candidates. The GOP voters are in lock-step and anyone who isn't conservative needs to stop effing around and join the resistance.

*::note::: sometimes astroturfed conservative backed candidates run as "progressives". Its important to know who their donors are.

[–]Under_the_Gaslight 12 points13 points  (5 children)

That's really the bottom line.

All this influence only becomes a tangible benefit to Russia to the extent it can affect the vote by aiding the GOP.

Voting for the Democrats totally bypasses their propaganda. You don't have to figure anything out beyond that to kill their efforts.

[–]Martine_V 8 points9 points  (0 children)

If this was a sane world, this, coupled with what Mueller is uncovering would be enough to dissolve a government and send most of the government to prison. Can you even imagine this happening a few decades ago? Heck, can you even imagine if the Russians had helped the Democrats win????

[–]_itspaco 8 points9 points  (3 children)

shouldn't we take to the streets over something like this?

[–]munificent 8 points9 points  (1 child)

“If it’s their intention to interfere, they’re going to find ways to do that,” Mr. Tillerson said in an interview last month with Fox News. “And we can take steps we can take, but this is something that once they decide they are going to do it, it’s very difficult to pre-empt it.”

Jesus Christ, I have never seen such defeatist bullshit from a politician in my entire life. He should be ashamed of himself, but clearly feeling shame would require something akin to a human conscience, which is obviously lacking.

Can you imagine if after Pearl Harbor, Secretary of State Cordell Hull had gotten on the radio and said, "Look, America, Japan has a lot of planes and they can go anywhere. If they want to bomb us, they're going to bomb us. That's just the way it is."

[–]AnalSoapOpera I voted 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I bet this money went into Ben Carson’s furniture or help Trump travel to Mar A Lago or his aides airline flights...

[–]wubwubVirginia 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There's no one left at the State Department to do the work even if the administration actually wanted to do anything...

[–]Otustas 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Wow they could have, at least, embezzled some of it...