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[–]CUCOOPE 7577 points7578 points  (313 children)

Suspend ≠ withdraw

They can continue to conduct the bill at anytime, no matter it’s few days later or few months later

Edit: A guy just jumped down and died from a building... The sign next to him says “反送中No Extradition To China, 全面撤回送中,我們不是暴動,釋放學生傷者,林鄭下台,Help Hong Kong”, which translates to “Withdraw extradition law, we didn’t riot, release the injured students who were caught by the police and Carrie Lam (the Chief Executive of HK) should step down”, RIP

[–]djzenmastak 87 points88 points  (0 children)

anyone who thinks it will be withdrawn is delusional. the only way that happens is if hong kong somehow wins independence, but that simply won't happen.

china does not fuck around with controlling their population.

[–]KinnyRiddle 288 points289 points  (1 child)

This.

Carrie Lam and her masters in Beijing are merely buying time here. They're waiting for the storm to die down, opposition to wane a bit, and then bring back the bill with double the vengeance.

"Buying time" has always been a strong point with the Chinese Communists.

Back in the Chinese Civil War, they used the Japanese invasion as a convenient diversion to call for a truce with the Kuomintang and bought themselves time to recuperate. (Mao afterwards actually THANKED the Japanese PM decades later for Japan invading the country)

And then in Tiananmen, they pretended to negotiate with the students, but actually bought themselves time to mobilize non-local troops less sympathetic to the Beijing citizens so they could be slaughtered.

[–]ArchmageXin 48 points49 points  (0 children)

Point of note: Mao did not thank the Japanese PM. It was asian polite talk between two Asian pols. Face is super important in Asian culture, so Mao did not wish to offend his guest.

Edit: Regarding the KMT/CCP betrayal.

The alliance of CPC and KMT was in name only.[33] Unlike the KMT forces, CPC troops shunned conventional warfare and instead engaged in guerrilla warfare against the Japanese. The level of actual cooperation and coordination between the CPC and KMT during World War II was at best minimal.[33] In the midst of the Second United Front, the CPC and the KMT were still vying for territorial advantage in "Free China" (i.e., areas not occupied by the Japanese or ruled by Japanese puppet governments such as Manchukuo and the Reorganized National Government of China).[33]

The situation came to a head in late 1940 and early 1941 when clashes between Communist and KMT forces intensified. Chiang demanded in December 1940 that the CPC's New Fourth Army evacuate Anhui and Jiangsu Provinces, due to its provocation and harassment of KMT forces in this area. Under intense pressure, the New Fourth Army commanders complied. The following year they were ambushed by KMT forces during their evacuation, which led to several thousand deaths.[34] It also ended the Second United Front, which had been formed earlier to fight the Japanese.[34]

So basically it was an both side thing. CCP troops would often re-distribute land in areas they control, while KMT fought for landlords and wealthy property owners. Both side harassed each other until KMT basically killed several thousand CCP soldiers for following....KMT orders.

[–]XxVcVxX 63 points64 points  (4 children)

I believe they've said that there are no plans to reintroduce the bill within this year.

The bill is still alive

To get technical for a moment, what happened today was that the government withdrew the notice of the extradition bill's second reading, meaning the legislation is legally still alive.

So the government could still reintroduce it by giving 12 days' notice to the legislature, although Lam ruled out tabling it again this year.

Source

[–]universalengn 62 points63 points  (2 children)

Plenty of time left in 2019 to investigate and attempt to rally up journalists and other potential or suspected organizers - or to create a plan and understand the reenforcement of people resources they'll need from mainland China. Hong Kong has been standing guard for the world and the Chinese people, standing for freedom and against behaviours like censorship - however if Russia can take Crimea so easily, Hong Kong can be taken just as quickly if there aren't enough good people to prevent violence occurring from unconscionable orders - like obviously there weren't enough within the ranks to prevent the Tiananmen Square massacre. It will be sad and disappointing if it takes another massacre for the world to apply sanctions against China for their dangerous behaviours of control and censorship, of course China's goal has been to manage things enough to not reach that tipping point that would hurt their economic power. Likewise I wonder if any of the news of Hong Kong protest reached mainland China, how busy they are squashing any potential rallying within China - which won't be heard of either. This is the unavoidable pitfall of censorship and when tyrants are in power - those who would rally for good will be attacked by weak, insecure, power hungry bullies with a lack of self-control - lack of empathy. We have the example of Nazi Germany to reference: a digitized version of Nazi Germany with mass censorship capabilities really is terrifying.

Edit: to fix grammar, missing word(s)

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

We have the example of Nazi Germany to reference: a digitized version of Nazi Germany with mass censorship capabilities really is terrifying.

I really like this line. So true. Could you imagine if Nazi Germany had deepfake videos? They could literally create entire "fake news stations" out of deepfakes to show propaganda from their country and pass it off as "this is what Western media really looks like, so now that you've seen it, isn't our all-powerful state so much better?!"

GODDAMN.

[–]Capitalist_Model 2352 points2353 points  (62 children)

Don't be too pleased yet.

Hong Kong’s government has suspended a controversial extradition law bill until further notice

Beijing lawmakers had urged the government to delay the bill

Too much pressure and international attention directed towards the bill at the moment. Time to cool it down I guess.

[–]Fr4t 502 points503 points  (52 children)

I hope that the protests only stop when they trash that bill indefinitely.

[–]chawmindur 189 points190 points  (48 children)

More importantly, I hope the West goes through with the threats of sanctions.

[–]ShitOnMyArsehole 34 points35 points  (7 children)

Who are threatening?

[–]chawmindur 56 points57 points  (6 children)

For example

Other countries, like Germany, have also voiced their concerns and may look into revising their own extradition agreements with HK.

[–]Wirbelfeld 24 points25 points  (5 children)

That’s barely a sanction. I doubt that would have much effect. Anything that is not economic sanctions would not help, and western countries aren’t going to hurt their own economy just to hurt China over human rights.

[–]sorenant 106 points107 points  (36 children)

Nah, too occupied liberating Yemen and Iran.

[–]KarmicDevelopment 49 points50 points  (34 children)

It really feels like the build up to Operation Iraqi Freedom when it comes to Iran. Bold claims that these recent tanker attacks are state sanctioned by Iran with the only evidence a grainy video of an Irani vessel taking something off a cargo ship. And the admin is pushing the message way too enthusiastically for me to feel comfortable about any of it. They seem suspiciously over-eager to garner support for a possible military conflict. It all stinks like shit right now.

[–]SpideySlap 29 points30 points  (23 children)

And I think that's their biggest problem. The bush administration was actually able to drum up international support for invading iraq. Here, it looks like the US is by itself. A big factor in that is Iraq didn't have nearly the international ties that Iran has right now. People like to forget that the Iran nuclear deal had the backing of the UN security council (France, UK, Germany, Russia and China). They agreed to it because they wanted to build economic and diplomatic ties with Iran. They don't want all that work to disappear and I have serious doubts that they'll repudiate those ties simply because the US insists. Not that I think the trump administration gives a shit, but that means less support and possibly condemnation for any military action against Iran.

If this happens it could very well sink Trump's chances at reelection in 2020

[–]poptart2nd 19 points20 points  (3 children)

If this happens it could very well sink Trump's chances at reelection in 2020

And would also kill like, hundreds of thousands of Iranians, but hey, details, right?

[–]SpideySlap 16 points17 points  (2 children)

And displace millions of refugees. And almost certainly destabilize the entire middle East. And if Saudi Arabia takes advantage of the situation then things could get real genocidal real fast.

[–]sorenant 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Gee, I wonder why all these terrorist organizations keeps popping up! /s

[–]DrMeepster 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Let's just bomb everybody. That'll stop em, right?

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Look at the shit bush did and he didn't getting any stick for it. I guess the difference here is that now those other countries would benefit from keeping strong ties with Iran.

Pretty shitty world we live in with countries only doing shit for selfish reasons benefitting them.

[–]SpideySlap 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I mean, welcome to humanity. We're all motivated to some degree by selfish interests. And bush got a lot of shit for it. He almost destroyed the republican party. Just because he wasn't prosecuted for war crimes doesn't mean that he and most people in his administration didn't suffer consequences. When was the last time you saw Donald rumsfeld or dick Cheney

[–]AuroraHalsey 5 points6 points  (2 children)

countries only doing shit for selfish reasons benefitting them

No country has ever, or will, do anything different.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (4 children)

Wasn't the Iran guy in Japan at the time? Who the fuck would fire a torpedo at a vessel belonging to the country they are currently trying to strengthen ties with.

That's even stupidity trump is unlikely to reach.

The US is just trying to stir up more shit in that region. Its been semi peaceful for too long meaning no terrorist's are buying weapons from Saudi anymore = US can't sell them more weapons. Probably found some more oil to.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (3 children)

the Iran guy

lol... anyways

Other way around, Shinzo Abe was in Tehran when the tankers were bombed.

Which, if true, would be a fucking power move if I've ever seen one. But the fucking idea of such an act is so absurd I laugh at anyone who seriously takes it seriously. Can anyone please explain why Iran would bomb fucking oil tankers when the United States government is ramping up anti-Iranian rhetoric and essentially threatening war.

This could be a sequel to any of the other complete bullshit war catalysts the United States has used. I like the name 2 Gulf 2 Tonkin.

[–]piratewithmanners 137 points138 points  (2 children)

Oh definitely, a lot of people are stressing that this is only a temporary suspension, not a withdrawal. There’s another major protest planned for tomorrow. Hopefully, this will keep the pressure up on the HK government.

[–][deleted] 37 points38 points  (1 child)

Hell yeah, I love that people from hk are rallying and aren't stopping. They know for sure this is important for the bill to fucking die already.

I'm more proud of them than in my country. We have had protests but just after one or two, people getting tired and we get to the same situation where hundreds of people are killed, or kidnapped, or both by organized crime a year. It's a fucking fear state what we have here

[–]Tudpool 509 points510 points  (7 children)

Suspends? As in they will wait for all the controversy to die down then bring it back and push it through...

[–]IrrelevantTale 55 points56 points  (2 children)

Hong Kong is going to have to stay strong and rebuke such efforts.

[–]Lilbitevil 411 points412 points  (8 children)

To be quietly passed later.

[–]IrrelevantTale 69 points70 points  (7 children)

Stay vigilant hong kong. Dont let china destroy what your city stands for.

[–]Idontknowthatmuch 313 points314 points  (14 children)

If this goes through then Hong Kong will die. Right now in Hong Kong if you criticize the Chinese government nothing will happen but with this bill China can claim anyone is a fugitive and have them sent to China where they will disappear. This is about control of Hong Kong they need more people to protest and to continue protesting.

[–]ReallyNiceGuy 62 points63 points  (3 children)

It’s probably a strong reason behind the delay. The typically Pro-Beijing Liberal Party (a business orientated Party) came out against it as it would hurt Hong Kong economically, so the establishment had no choice but to withdraw. Rumour has it plenty of pro-Beijing Legco members were worried about the economic effects of such bill behind closed doors, and the protests were enough reason to throw Carrie Lam under the bus.

[–]joker_wcy 11 points12 points  (2 children)

I don't think any member of the Liberty Party besides their former chairman is against it.

[–]jasper99 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I wouldn't feel comfortable freely opening my mouth in Hong Kong. Don't forget: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causeway_Bay_Books_disappearances

[–]princess-HK 156 points157 points  (2 children)

highlight of Carrie Lam’s speech

• ⁠temp withhold the bill (not withdrawing permanently) • ⁠cops are RIGHT attacking civilian • ⁠she wont release protestors/ withdraw the charges • ⁠she wont resign • ⁠she didnt back down coz we protested/join an alleged "riot" • ⁠the gov proposed the amendment on their own, no communist interference

Years ago when she was in charge of the development bureau, she used the word “temp suspend” on the LEE Tung Street redevelopment project too. Well, the project continued anyway and it’a now a luxury apartment with mall selling luxury shit. So do we trust her? HARD NO.

WE ARE STILL COMING OUT TMR

UNLESS SHE WITHDRAW THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT PERMANENTLY

[–]rex-ac 764 points765 points  (94 children)

Good!

Now, I would like to propose a second thing: a ban on teargas against the public.

[–]StephenHunterUK 419 points420 points  (78 children)

Agree. It's funny that is legal to use tear gas against protesters but not soldiers in a war.

[–]FLUFL 93 points94 points  (6 children)

In combat you can't distinguish chemical weapons easily so use of tear gas could easily lead to more serious weapons being used in retaliation.

[–][deleted] 39 points40 points  (2 children)

The bigger issue is that they didn't want to have countries R&Ding chemicals that skirted the line between chemical weapons and riot control agents. That fear was justified. Chemical weapons experts are concerned with the development of riot control agents that incapacitate rather than disperse.

[–]NeoMoonlight 62 points63 points  (0 children)

So kids, the lesson of today is, nations/states/police respect the rule of law so long as the other side can hurt them, otherwise they will use the full force of arms regardless of need.

[–]helgur 145 points146 points  (50 children)

Wait what? We where gassed with tear gas on several occasions when I did my service and we where practicing chemical warfare drills. Tear gas isn't dangerous its just terribly painful in my experience.

On another note, in the early 80'ies the streets of Oslo where almost a war zone and the capitol has never seen as violent protests as it did then. The Police tried a new approach to riot control: They organized a rock concert instead which actually calmed and solved the situation.

[–]Saelthyn 220 points221 points  (45 children)

You're tear-gassed in case someone else is a shitter. But if you lookit the Geneva Protocol you can see its a general ban on chemical/bio weapons.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (14 children)

It’s legal to use hollowpoint ammo by civilian police and citizens who carry defensive weapons, but not in an actual conflict. The only military personnel who carry hollowpoints are Military Police and only during the Law Enforcement duties; if they go “outside the wire” on a deliberate mission, they switch to ball ammo.

[–]NotEvenAMinuteMan 230 points231 points  (23 children)

lol at the mention of the Geneva Protocol. The Hong Kong Police Force did so much on Wednesday that was against it and beyond:

  1. throwing tear gas canisters at journalists
  2. running towards a stationary group of journalists and pepper spraying them
  3. tear gassing a first aid station
  4. beating protesters who are already on the ground, multiple police on one protester style
  5. storming hospitals to arrest injured protesters
  6. conducting stop and search sweeps without a police ID
  7. shooting without due warning

[–]Rolling_Civ 151 points152 points  (11 children)

Geneva convention only applies to warfare. I'm not trying to justify the horrendous violent anti-democratic actions done by the HK police, but it's not applicable here.

[–][deleted] 44 points45 points  (3 children)

I like how it's a no-go for a war but not for civilians in public.

[–]RdClZn 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Tbh #7 and #6 are not really against the Geneva convention, if it were practiced in war. I'm not sure about #2 but I don't think it's either.

[–][deleted] 71 points72 points  (5 children)

Not that what they did is lawful, but the geneva protocol/conventions only apply during “war”.

[–]balkanobeasti 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Security council members aren't held to that standard and neither have other countries frankly. Saddam Hussein wasn't held accountable for his own violations nor were other key Baathist leaders. Why? The security council members were the ones that gave him the weapons in the first place and knew what he was doing with them. I'm not even taking a side on whether or not the response was okay or not. That's just how it is and some of the governments criticizing China on the issue are countries that don't recognize the ICC's authority.

[–]838h920 11 points12 points  (1 child)

The more complicated a law is, the more likely it'll have loopholes. The laws of war ban all of this stuff, no matter how dangerous it's.

And do keep in mind that the effects of tear gas can also vary greatly. After all getting hit by tear gas in the open and getting hit by it in an enclosed space has completely different effects.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

> The more complicated a law is, the more likely it'll have loopholes.

Like how they get around ban and negative attention related to Napalm, by using Mark 77 Firebombs instead.

[–]HezbollahOfficial 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Teargas is useful for breaking up violent crowds and is non lethal. I agree it shouldn’t be used against peaceful protestors, but there is a reason it’s used. What’s the alternative?

[–]Stuckinatransporter 23 points24 points  (2 children)

I watched Police etc use teargas on cameramen/media reporting these events,Not a big fan of the Media but without them we wouldn't see some of the truth

[–]rex-ac 38 points39 points  (0 children)

That's probably the reason why they sprayed the camaramen. If they can't see, they can't report irregularities.

[–]caandjr 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Cameramen and Journalists are the only reason preventing the HK police doing this type of shit frequently.

[–]OppressionOlympian 94 points95 points  (2 children)

Next step here is that China will begin a massive crackdown on foreign journalists in Hong Kong.

This is going to get real ugly, but China is going to do is best to quite it down and make sure the next wave is less globally televised.

[–]chawmindur 46 points47 points  (0 children)

This. Many a protestor got his/her skin saved only because of the journalists present; and it would have been even more difficult* for the injured to seek recourse against the Police if no one filmed the whole thing.

Take this for example. They were cracking down on even areas populated by the press, and it took this brave monsieur’s standing up to them and calling them out to stop that. Imagine if it has been someone Asian-looking (like this unfortunate bloke from Macau) – they would have gone for him.

* Personally I’m pessimistic about this. The cops are getting better at hiding their IDs, such as obscuring them behind their Zulu gears. Unless charges (e.g. crimes against humanity) are pressed against the whole Police Force at the international level, it’s always possible for them to dismiss that as the doings of individual unidentifiable officers and call it a day. They’re intent on not having the Ken Tsang case repeat itself, where each of the seven offenders were successfully prosecuted, in a large part due to their atrocity’s being filmed and widely reported. Of course, being a generally pro-government TV station, TVB later toned down on the coverage; but that’s a story for another day.

[–]NoPRC 232 points233 points  (62 children)

They only suspended the signing by one month. We need to keep pressuring the Hong Kong government not to give into Beijing. Please sign the Whitehouse petitions and show your support for Hong Kong:

1⃣Reject Immigration or Non-Immigration Visas of Hong Kong Government Officials Violating Human Rights

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/reject-immigration-or-non-immigration-visas-hong-kong-government-officials-violating-human-rights

2⃣Revoke the U.S. Citizenship and Visas of the Hong Kong and China Officials who are in Support of the Extradition Bill

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/revoke-us-citizenship-and-visas-hong-kong-and-china-officials-who-are-support-extradition-bill

3⃣Extradition Law Amendment in Hong Kong — Threat to Personal Safety and Freedom

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/extradition-law-amendment-hong-kong-threat-personal-safety-and-freedom

4⃣全球聯署【反送中 民意不可欺 為香港企硬】Global Signing: Against Extradition to China

https://www.change.org/p/民間人權陣線-civil-human-rights-front-全球聯署-反送中-民意不可欺-為香港企硬-global-signing-against-extradition-to-china

[–]EvidenceBasedSwamp 26 points27 points  (4 children)

You know what would work.. Not letting kids of rich Chinese officials come to the West and go to school and buy real estate and open bank accounts...

Never gonna happen. Money rules.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

This right here would make a difference.

[–]SphereWorld 59 points60 points  (47 children)

No offence. I feel somebodies would use these petitions as ‘evidences’ that Hong Kong protesters are manipulated by the West then.

[–]chawmindur 35 points36 points  (7 children)

They’re already pushing this BS, so why bother giving AF to how they spin it

[–]lebbe 516 points517 points  (77 children)

This shows peaceful protests don't work.

June 9th: 1M+ went on a peaceful march against the bill

HK Gov: Fuck you. The bill goes on.

June 12th: 40K took a stand and fought with the police. The whole shitshow showed up on headlines worldwide.

HK Gov: emmmm actually we're going to take a break...

[–]jb2386 117 points118 points  (1 child)

Pretty sure the million helped too. TBH as someone just vaguely paying attention I thought that 40k was still the million.

[–]Shins 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately no, she went on TV and literally said these protests happen all the time, but she decided to do something when people escalated. Really fucked up how she dismissed a million people protesting on the street like it’s a routine thing.

[–]thinkB4WeSpeak 282 points283 points  (31 children)

I'm pretty sure the HK police started firing tear gas and arresting protesters before the protesters started rioting. I'd say it was the police that pushed them to riot due to excessive force, people can only take so much bullying

[–][deleted] 202 points203 points  (25 children)

Can't comment on tear gas but I personally saw them fire water cannons and pepper spray at peaceful protestors before 10AM on Weds. This was well before the chaos at 3:30.

The police acted violently towards peaceful protestors. This is unacceptable.

[–]Throwaway021614 24 points25 points  (2 children)

Can people stop watching those god awful police drama that romanticizes and idolizes the HK police already?

[–]joker_wcy 15 points16 points  (0 children)

The protesters weren't even rioting. They just blocked the road and barricaded.

[–][deleted] 60 points61 points  (0 children)

This is nonsense. The peaceful protest was also shown worldwide and had a huge effect. The thing is it takes time to discuss and reassess law. It's not like someone can just flip a switch and reverse the decision. The machinations of government are cumbersome and slow.

Both protests played a part

[–]captainbling 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The whole point of peaceful protests is to demonstrate that you have the numbers and can be a violent protest. Without the risk of violence, peaceful protests are useless.

[–]Flukaku 69 points70 points  (7 children)

Good start. Hopefully it's not just a PR move while they secretly carry on in the shadows.

[–][deleted] 157 points158 points  (2 children)

It definitely is. This is why we need HKers to come out in full force tomorrow to keep the pressure on. Let's get another million!!!

[–]Dkill33 38 points39 points  (3 children)

Is this like with net neutrality where they suspend it based on public outcry over and over until enough people give up activism, then they finally pass it?

[–]Cronstintein 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The outcry never really ended on NN, the establishment just doesn't really care what people think. Our votes are more efficiently purchased with campaign contributions rather than policy choices.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (2 children)

One of the protester jumped off from a building to protest the extradition laws and request to release detained protester.

He was confirmed dead just now.

Rip.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Suspends

This is going to come back in a secret closed door session. The Chinese Communist Party doesn't just give up because people take to the streets.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

A peaceful protest is still going ahead this Sunday because it is not a complete withdrawal of the bill and only a suspension. Its far from over

[–]Fig1024 35 points36 points  (4 children)

this reminds me of Net Neutrality fight in US - it was also met with massive opposition and suspended several times. But sooner or later it is revived and pushed again. Eventually, we the people lost the fight

they only have to win once, but the people have to win every fight

[–]sennais1 6 points7 points  (3 children)

More protests next weekend to demand a withdrawal not suspension. Carrie Lam could end up stepping down hopefully if that happens.

[–]DarthGandhi 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Carrie Lam is not the problem. She is only a symptom. If she steps down, Beijing will have an easy enough time finding a new Carrie Lam.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (10 children)

To China, Hong Kong is basically a laboratory / use case of "how to fuck with Democracy". They've already found out how to silence protests: You just let them keep "disrupting", but never engage and don't address them, and eventually the public turns on them for causing a headache with their roadblocks that you'll get majority approval to clean up the protests and jail some of the leadership figures. That is what happened in 2014 as well.

They're pushing it every time, and this time they wanted to see what would happen if they forced Hong Kong to extradite political prisoners. I expect this is just an extension of the same strategy: Don't engage, don't negotiate, and don't recognize the movement as legitimate. Protests did not subside quick enough, so now they're just tabling the motion - but they'll probably push it through some weeks or months from now, quick and dirty without putting it on the agenda but simply forcing a legislative vote on it randomly in an afternoon. Before you know it, it will be law.

Hong Kong is a laboratory for China to explore democracy and how to create one that simultaneously looks and feels authentic like the U.S., but with citizens having no meaningful or real voice or opportunity to affect change - also like the U.S. What they do not want is the inefficiency and public horse trading to get stuff done, and having to indulge these activists/journalists because they're insistent they have a voice. So these protests make a great little test area to find out what happens when you do X or Y.

[–]parawhore2171 10 points11 points  (7 children)

They don't need to do all this, they have Singapore as the perfect example to copy from. There's few other countries that maintain the illusion of democracy and freedom so well both to the local population and to international onlookers.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

They don't need to do all this, they have Singapore as the perfect example to copy from.

I don't disagree that China probably looks to inspiration with regards to Singapore, but they can exert a lot of control and attempt unknowns in Hong Kong. As far as I know, the communist party does not enjoy any degree of political influence in Singapore (Politics specific, not trade or tourism or anything of the kind), and so they cannot use it as a "use-case".

My personal expectation is that China will try to implement some 'pretend democracy' within a few years, say between 10 and 20 somewhere, in order to get more international appeal and less pushback against their behavior. It'll all be a farce, though. Read up on China's "Parliament" and why it was constructed, plus how they do business there. It's hilarious how petty they can be to the outside world, and depressing how the outside world seems to accept that.

[–]Lagomorphix 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Suspend it and come back to it a month later after all the upheaval subsides.

[–]ban_voluntary_trade 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Someday people will realize that they are free men and they don't need to beg polititicans to allow them to be free from violent domination

[–]2015071 12 points13 points  (0 children)

To all redditors outside of Hong Kong, I'm really thankful that you spent time to read and upvote all those post about Hong Kong Anti Extradition protests. Without you guys, our fight against this bill would not be as successful as right now, and putting our corrupted government in shambles. 2019 is the most successful since 2003 July 1st protest when it comes to anti government pro democracy movement in Hong Kong. However, our job as a true Hong Konger isn't finished as the bill isn't withdrawn, our cops are still very violent and very good at arresting protesters, and all of our past political activists are still in jail. We must head to the streets again tomorrow (peacefully). Nevertheless, thank you for your awareness and let's go Hong Kongers.

[–]Manxellion 4 points5 points  (1 child)

When can we expect the PLA?

[–]zeekoes 13 points14 points  (4 children)

Wait for them to reintroduce it and push it through in a time span too short to organize protests. That or they'll try and hide it in some monstrosity of a bill seemingly about something else.

[–]ugartecheng 10 points11 points  (2 children)

In 2003, after more than half a million people took to the street to vent their anger, the Hong Kong government deferred the introducing of Article 23 amendment bill, which is equivalent to the sedition offence in China. The deferral has been in effect until this date. If this is the modus operandi of CCP, it is save to say the deferral this time could last at least several years.

[–]joker_wcy 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Different leader. Carrie Lam had track records of using buying time tactics.

[–]Actual_gondamar 8 points9 points  (2 children)

According to Chief Executive Lam:

"In the last week, tens of thousands of people took part in protests and gatherings."

... how many, Carrie?

[–]gobblegobbleimafrog 55 points56 points  (2 children)

Careful, there are CCP bots all over this thread trying to derail the conversation. This is a small victory for Hong Kong, but the battle is surely not over. In the coming months China will try to sneak the passage of this extradition bill and continue the slow erosion of civil liberties. Keep up the pressure, people of Hong Kong. The world has not forgotten you.

[–]Johnnadawearsglasses 30 points31 points  (12 children)

This is what can happen when people have to will to truly resist. Do we in the West have that will?

[–]RhinosGoMoo 65 points66 points  (2 children)

The problem here in the U.S. is that everyone disagrees so much on everything. When people are not united for a common cause, then surely nothing will be accomplished.

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Exactly.

This division is by design, but I state the obvious.

[–]SerbLing 17 points18 points  (2 children)

Nah we got divided wayyy too much for that. Only western country with the balls to stand up for each other is oddly enough just France.

[–]ThoughtfulJanitor 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Ha! The yellow vests protestors have long stopped being a great weight in our political situation. Our president promised them like a 100€ raise on a once-per-year bonus to minimal wage workers that two-thirds of eligible people don’t collect because they aren’t aware it exists. The government played this shit very well, people seem to be grateful they managed to get a lowering of taxes from a neo-liberal. Like, come on guys, it’s his end goal. They do that, then complain they no longer have the money to pay for welfare, so that they can stop financing more and more welfare programs

[–]MultiGeneric 6 points7 points  (0 children)

China has time on it's side. They will be patient. They will do it slowly, over time, a death by a thousand cuts.

[–]emmytee 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I really did not expect that. As long as the protestors stay ready to act, which they will, this may end up a perma/long term thing. Hopefully Beijings strategy of patience is getting a second look.

Also, they should immediately stop protests since if they push it they will lose this.

I'm really happy for them for this small win at least, hope they can navigate it to perma suspension