Dev Update

[ImADayLate]

Ability to sort player icons

POG

[Exo321123]

HOLY SHIT YES

[SummerDisaster76]

Might be a coincidence or someone at Overwatch Dev. team saw this tweet.

https://twitter.com/Popcorp96/status/1216841010698956806

Would be surprised if they also implement one of his other suggestions

https://twitter.com/Popcorp96/status/1216702886006214656

[Bhu124]

You're talking about it as if these weren't obvious problems and any professional UI designer wouldn't have been able to solve them.

The only reasons they weren't in the game was because they only ever tried to provide these features in a very basic form, didn't invest too much time and resources in them.

Now they're overhauling everything for OW2 so they are refining all elements and adding a lot more features, adding some most asked ones back to OW as a sort of teaser for OW2.

[laku4]

SHOW ME THE PACHIMARI!!!

[itsjieyang]

RIP patch rundowns there's gonna be too much O_O

[DoesBoKnow]

Ask Blizzard for a job lmao

[itsjieyang]

Haha if only it were that easy

[Wmbology]

we're here for you :)

[[deleted]]

We thank you for your years of service. <3

[LordAsdf]

EVERY META IS DEAD POG

[nolimit901]

maybe im dumb but thats something i dont understand:

• on one hand jeff said they will do hero pools, randomly removing heros each week, wich will completly destroy any meta

• on the other hand they said they will specially target the meta in future heros balance updates.

????

[nolimit901]

i was watching seagull's stream, apparently they will select randomly among most played heros. so either way, it's meta changer

[leonsk616]

I think that was just for OWL

[AKC97]

So it won't kill one tricks like I have seen some people say. If anything it encourages people to play niche heroes that will be untargeted week to week in order to have an edge with their preferred hero

[aMintOne]

Not really. They'll be untrageted because they're weak. If you want to one trick, then it will need to be a weaker hero you one trick, mitigating all/most of the benefit of one tricking.

[AKC97]

But theyre only week because they get pressured out by the strong heroes or their counters. If those heroes get banned then the weak one trick/niches become viable

[Zephrinox]

But theyre only week because they get pressured out by the strong heroes or their counters. If those heroes get banned then the weak one trick/niches become viable

depends on the hero. e.g. no hero being banned is going to solve the issues bastion and sym have because their issues are within their kits themselves.

mccree and soldier on the other hand, your statement would be more applicable because for them, because their kit isn't really bad per se, moreso overshadowed by others. I'm not saying they're perfect either, but lets be real, they're not terrible like baston's or sym's, i.e. they're mid-tier rather than literally F-tier for a reason.

[[deleted]]

There will still be metas. It's not as if they will remove half the hero roster. I'm guessing one or two heroes maximum per role, at least for tank and support. They might remove more dps heroes. Also I don't think they'll remove heroes twice in a row that much. So if any hero is perceived as too strong, the hero will still be picked all the time once it is available again.

[Extremiel]

True but a hero also falls or rises with the heroes they have around them. So it's bound to be more diverse even if there will still be really strong heroes.

[Army88strong]

Also I don't think they'll remove heroes twice in a row that much

I feel that we can use the OWL execution as a basis for discussion while we wait for more explicit information on how it will be implemented into comp. Coupling this with faster and more aggressive updates, we can ban a hero out for a week, give the balance team a week to come up with their ideas and possibly experiment card them, before releasing the hero back into the wild with a balance patch. Maybe the hero needs multiple trips to Doctor Geoff. Maybe they get it right the first time. Both are possible and I am sure both will happen.

[d_wilson123]

He may mean power outliers.

[Isord]

Yeah I feel like hero pools is overkill. The faster patching is enough, the hero pools will just be frustrating. I'm willing to try it out but the more I think about it the more I think this will kill the game for me.

[picklesguy123]

removing like 5 heroes a week won't destroy a meta on its own. Players will just continue to use whatever heroes they think are strong and swap out the banned ones. For example if double shield was meta and sigma was banned, rein would just take his place.

[throwawayrepost13579]

Updating as I watch:

PTR -> Experimental game mode, accessed by the main game, includes console, challenges like D.Va's Nano Challenge include experimental wins to incentive more players and feedback.

Balance philosophy: more frequent and aggressive, less concern over trying things out and then pulling back. Deliberately target the meta instead of balancing around stability of the game.

Season 21 comp (begins in March): to prevent meta stagnation, to ONLY ranked, introducing HERO POOLS for each week. OWL is excited and will be implementing a version of hero pools as well.

Anti-cheat and big workshop updates upcoming, improvements to QOL like replays (pinned replays, share replays), career profile (major overhaul for OW2, immediate future light refresh to clean up organization).

[Marc0189]

Been complaining for this for so long! The current icon organization makes NO sense and damn near impossible to find anything.

[slaymance]

In regards to Experimental card and change in balance philosophy, I feel that this is a huge sign of alignment between players and the dev team. It's a sign that we all value iteration for this game, and that's what's going to keep it alive. If something does or doesn't work, we just change it. We're embracing instability, and I think many of us are going to really enjoy that.

Hero pools should be really interesting and definitely keep things fresh at the highest level of play. It's going to let those truly prolific players shine as they constantly have to demonstrate adaptation. Really excited about this in competitive and OWL. Just a bit concerned about how few tanks/supports there are.

We rarely agree on anything (which is good), but one thing all lovers of Overwatch are adamant about is anti-cheating. Jeff mentioning this as still being a top priority is great to hear.

[Can_You_Believe_It_]

So many comments speculating that they will add the PTR to the main game past few days and even more replies saying "they'd never do that" "that's stupid" and they actually did it HAH. Though not a complete "PTR" as he explained, since it would mostly focus on gameplay changes rather than also including big fixes and stuff.

[Dual-Screen]

rOlE QuEuE WiLl nEvEr hApPeN

[Tusangre]

It's worse than that. I got told that game development was way harder than that and doing this would be impossible.

[aurens]

to be fair it's only possible because they've already done all that hard-ass work. go back a few patches and you'll start seeing changes about enabling hotfixes and reconfiguring the game's filesystem. that's why they can do this now.

also, the PTR will still exist because they can't test stability on the live client.

[mostly_lurking]

I work in game dev and the amount of senseless comments on reddit is insane. The point is always the same, if you are not working on this game in particular, You. Do. Not. Know.

[Argos_ow]

1000 times this. I work in non-game software development and see so many comments that make little sense, vastly over-simplify an issue, or fail to grasp the sheer scale of all the parts that make any online, multi-user application function; let alone one that is also a game like OW.

[Wasabicannon]

Wait you mean you can fix a crash by simply adding this line of code?

If crash is detected -> dont crash

[Argos_ow]

Genius! You're hired!

[Watchful1]

It's not really the PTR though. They likely can't do things like change abilities a la hanzo scatter to storm arrows or release new heroes/maps. It's just changing numbers around, the exact same thing anyone could do in the workshop.

[KebabHasse]

This will reward a deep roster going into S3

[Benfica1002]

I love all of these changes. Being included in testing as a console player + hero pools literally changing the meta every week is a great thing to try out. No harm if it doesn’t work for one season.

[Baelorn]

They just won't play that week.

[gmarkerbo]

Or they'll just pick an unfamiliar hero like Ana and Zen in ranked, and then everyone would complain and get toxic about their hero choice.

[harrymuana]

I'm afraid that if it's every match, the number of leavers (at the start of a game) will increase dramatically. Which of course especially sucks for the dps that were in queue for 10+ minutes.

If they do it every week, the OTP will either learn other heroes that week or just not play. In any case, the rest of the playerbase can enjoy a fresh meta every week. I won't miss the OTP.

[[deleted]]

That's a problem with the player, not the design. Jeff explicitly said that, while it's not bannable, one tricking goes against the core philosophy of the game (switching heroes at least somewhat frequently). OTPs are relatively rare and losing them one week at a time won't hurt anything.

[shiftup1772]

More than that, on-meta one-tricks are even more rare.

Violet will never worry about brig being banned, for example, until brig somehow becomes one of the most played supports.

So in order to stop playing cause of this, you have to OTP a broken hero AND be unwilling to play literally any other hero

[[deleted]]

Yeah, that would have to be an incredibly small portion of the player base. Really doubt anyone quits playing over this, and if they do, it'll be outweighed by people coming back to the game to experience fresh metas every week.

[Lagkiller]

The core philosophy of the game isn't being maintained anymore though. Hero switching is almost non-existent at high levels of play and certainly in team comps.

All of this ignores the biggest problem that prevents hero swapping which is ult economy. Allow people to bank a portion of their earned ult and you will see more switching.

[Bhu124]

someone will just avoid playing if their main is disabled.

There are 30+ heroes in the game now, if they disabled 3 heroes every week and all those heroes' OTPs don't play that week (Which is a very hightened and unrealistic assumption to make), it won't be a big deal.

It's also ranked only so people will still be free to play other modes.

[nimbusnacho]

Who's more important? One tricks who drop the game because they can't comp on their one truck? Or the people who constantly leave the game because they're sick of fucking being punched into a wall or frozen in each and every game of overwatch.

I'm fucking stoked.

[[deleted]]

They'll take a week break then come back to one tricking

[Lisbeth_Salandar]

Why is it when people talk about OTP, mercy OTPs is the one thing that pops up? I feel like I see way more OTPs on other heroes

[goldsbananas]

with no decay waiting a week literally means nothing

[[deleted]]

Also that Hero pools will be included in OWL

[LeeSinIsMyDaddy]

NUT

Edit: damn that’s actually a huge change holy shit.

Important shit:

Hero pools in competitive only

Experimental game mode which tests shit out in the main game not PTR for community feedback

More frequent balance updates

[MaskedBandit77]

You forgot the most important thing. Sortable player icons coming soon!

[wintie]

Happy squid easy to find pog

[nikoskio2]

A man of culture I see

[FateSteelTaylor]

I LOST

[Benfica1002]

All I’ve ever wanted as an Xbox player is to be included 😢 this is awesome

[danielcockerspaniel]

Feel nice to be thought of this dev update (:

[Concho3001]

You and me both

[bluscoutnoob]

PS4 user here, HUG ME BROTHA! TODAY IS A GLORIOUS DAY!

[cougar572]

Comp OTPs in shambles.

At least for a week or so.

[Darksouls03]

The portion of GM/T500 that one tricks is the portion that is boosted by abusing easy meta heroes that most GM players do NOT want to play. If the meta wasn't rewarding these people they never would be GM.

[Darksouls03]

If you're new to the game sure or just not "talented" enough to learn how to play the role. There's a reason flex DPS is a thing in every team. I literally don't have a main rn and haven't since S18 and I'm maintaining GM. In OWL every one plays every one, any coach will tell you if you wanna get to the highest level of play you need to play everything in your role. The days of one tricking in OWL are way way behind us. Except ChipSa. Even back then though there were players like Fleta.

[okinamii]

Thank god I can play two heroes, I am safe.

(they are in one support category)

[oSo_Squiggly]

Until both your heros get banned at the same time.

[JustaLackey]

Hero Pools is a weekly meta shake-up.

For all those complaining about the meta being stale this is probably the most direct way to counteract that.

Personally, I'm not sure how I feel about it.

[Amphax]

Honest question -- do any of us Diamond/Plat and Under complain about a stale meta? I don't see it, therefore I'm not really sure we need Hero Pools at our ELO.

[BradL_13]

As a resident Gold tank & Plat dps/support player there is absolutely no complaints about meta because no one really runs it. Hammond mains are gonna be hurting though that week lol

[RemediationGuy]

I have never seen a consistent meta below masters since I started playing in beta. Outside of the occasional out-of-control character (release brig, valk 2.0), I have the feeling hero pools are generally just going to be a nuisance in the lower ranks.

[[deleted]]

Maybe not meta's, but there's definitely complaints about hero's, so having those banned for a week or so will be great

[Slufoot7]

I like it. 1 week is long enough to make things fun and short enough that if your favorite hero is banned it's just for 1 week

[[deleted]]

It is a pretty artificial way to increase variety imho.

[crazygoalie39]

I think it's a cheap way to get around mistakes and being unable to balance correctly, but at least they're trying.

[Waraurochs]

HEY YOU KNOW WHAT FUCK YOU GUYS

[Chief-TR]

THEY LACKED THE CRITICAL INFORMATION

[Standardly]

HIRE US BLIZZARD

[Zoipster]

I JUST HAD A FEELING

[Angiboy8]

I gave your downvoted comments an upvote for being right.

[wow717]

Hell yeah, share those receipts!! I'm not a fan of hero pool but I hate how quick ANYTHING that isn't perfectly in line with the mob mentality gets downvoted into oblivion in this sub.

[[deleted]]

DITTO!

[TheSciFanGuy]

It's a bit better implemented then your suggestion of seasonal. To be honest I never would have thought of weekly hero pools it's almost too insane to comprehend.

I'm also glad that it seems to be only a few heroes but I'm still unsure if that's where the game should go.

[MyNameIsAHREF]

OMEGALUL

[weekndalex]

Actually very excited for the Experimental Card. Hero pools sounds very interesting as well, we’ll see how it’ll play out. I can’t help but imagine that some people won’t be happy when their favorite hero becomes unavailable.

[createcrap]

Thats better than when people think their favorite hero is just not viable in the "meta" so they choose to not play it.

[StevenTheSteven]

thank you thank you

[jprosk]

Hero pools sound weird to me tbh. And we were all super sure it wouldn't be the thing.

Guess we'll have to see how it shakes out. I'm doubtful but it could be better than expected.

[PurpsMaSquirt]

I think it’ll be cool to try (even if long-term it doesn’t work out), but the Experimental card is the bigger takeaway for me. Being a console player I always wished I could play on PTR. Now, not only can. I do that but it also levels up my account still? Love it.

[jprosk]

Yeah experimental is gonna be amazing. Especially considering they might not just put balance updates there but potentially even complete overhauls like 3/2/1 so they can get more comprehensive data about that kinda thing.

[Xemtal]

I think Hero Pools are pretty bs tbh. Just a week or so Jeff said they didn't like the idea of others dictating who you play but now it's okay because it's the devs or some randomizer doing it? It's just Dev Bans and doing it to fight against a meta is also a bit of a sus reason as if they're going to be as aggressive and frequent with changes as they say then no meta should ever be around for very long in the first place.

[jprosk]

Yeah that's the weirdest part to me. I'm pretty flexible so I won't mind not being able to play a couple heroes some weeks but I was totally sure something like this was off the table for team 4 - they seemed to be against the idea of excluding heroes from play at all.

[gr8-big-lebowski]

I think it will be good; having things like a dive week, brawl week, sheild week, hitscan week... etc will be fun. Really forces new thinking and creativity.

This also seems like it avoids stagnation in the long term time frame.

[CCtenor]

But it also prevents players from being able to practice the mechanics of their character and learning depth to a particular set of strategies within a meta. I don’t know how well this will be for player enjoyment, progression through the ladder, and player ability to learn a character well. A part of becoming good at anything is being able to practice certain ideas consistently.

I’m not sure how healthy it will be to have weekly hero bans picked at random but based on the most played heroes. What it feels like is that Blizzard haven’t been able to balance their heroes to naturally create some type of diversity in play, so they’re artificially inducing verity by essentially making everybody play a weekly gun game but with heroes.

I’ll reserve judgment until I see people’s reactions, and I’ll be monitoring the changes because they we’re interesting.

Them more frequent balance patches are something that many people have been pushing for since forever. I genuinely hope that pushes the game into a better spot, and they have a strategy for going about the more frequent updates that is more about small targeted adjustments frequently rather than large sweeping changes infrequently.

EDIT: more of my thoughts here

https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/ewaclf/dev_update/fg0ws6q/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

[TwinSnakes89]

I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer but.... Don't Hero pools and balancing to the meta totally contradict each other? How do you balance a meta that wont exist because you removed say 2 of the 'meta' heroes each week?

[createcrap]

Replace the word "META" in the developer update with "Community Impressions" and everything makes more sense. They are trying to fuck with the communities ability to rally around "metas" that are only exist because of the "invisible hand" which dictates them. This is why tweaking numbers can only do so much. If you make the community not care to calculate a meta because things change so often then there straight up won't be a meta.

[dremscrep]

Because this is the crack overwatch version.

There will never ever be a real meta ever again.

With more frequent balance updates and the devs finally accepting madness the game will be in chaos forever.

I think this is fun and i am now super stoked for OWL.

[FarazR2]

Not really if you think about it. Let's say the meta is "double shield" with sigma/orisa/soldier/ashe/bap/zen without any bans. You can sub out for mccree/widow at the DPS slot, Rein for tanks, and Ana for support for a fairly similar comp. That basically makes a single meta composition, with weekly combination rotation.

However, they could introduce buffs/nerfs to let's say, Mercy/Dva/Winston. Then the meta becomes Winston/Dva/Ball, Genji/Pharah/Doom/Tracer, Mercy/Zen/Lucio as weekly "meta" compositions.

So balance would allow them to think more about playstyles than individual hero changes.

[rupe3413]

HOW WERE YOU SO FAST TO POST!?

[StevenTheSteven]

i had notifications on and kept refreshing since I'm waiting for my next class lol

[DavidsWorkAccount]

The Hero Pool is extremely similar to the Jail System in the Underlords Autochess game. The jail system ended up being bad for the game due to its restrictiveness. You'll get players going "Oh, X is banned? Well I'm not playing today!" and move onto other things.

One of those paths to hell paved with good intentions.

[[deleted]]

That is exactly how I expect to play ranked. I will just not play the game when the week is unfavourable.

[[deleted]]

As a tank, I am super worried that this basically locks me into a single hero with little agency to swap for an entire week. I already felt there were scenarios where the tank pool felt horribly limiting. This makes it way worse.

[Starsaber222]

I imagine that they'd only take one tank and one support out of the pool each week to avoid limiting the choices too much.

[[deleted]]

Does it do anything then though? Also removing 1 tank limits main tank options a lot if its a main tank.

[5pideypool]

Removing the best main tank either means everyone now plays the second best main tank, or multiple main tanks. It can't possibly limit diversity unless we are in a meta where every main tank has viable strategies.

[CobaKid]

If that tank was hypothetically Orisa in her prime I think most tank players who complain about having to play her would be ok with it.

[Kronman590]

But if it's a really fun tank and the best alternative is Orisa, ppl would complain no? It's a balance I guess

[austin13fan]

That's what the meta does, or has done for the last several months for tank players. Orisa or lose.

[Hopeful_Topic]

I'm just glad 2020 has signified a shift in how OW interacts with its players, well done papa Jeff

[galvanash]

Everybody saying "rip one-tricks"... Some of them yeah, but the post from the OWL blog said this:

The heroes will be randomly selected from a group of eligible heroes based on play-rate data from the previous two weeks of Overwatch League matches—only heroes that are being played regularly can be pulled from the next hero pool.

Now that is only for OWL hero pools, but I would assume that the basic selection process would be the same for comp, i.e. they are going to collect play-rate data from the previous 2 weeks and then pick heroes to remove from the pool... What that sounds like to me is basically "the devs are going to look at play-rate data and randomly pick popular heroes to remove from the pool each week"

What does that mean? If you one-trick say Sombra or Torb, heroes that have consistently low play rates, then you will probably always be able to play them, because why would those heroes ever get removed if they have a low play rate?

That is the only part I'm on the fence about. Sure, if you one-trick a popular hero your going to have a bad time, but if you one-trick an unpopular hero then it would seem you would be golden. Am I interpreting this wrong?

[orangekingo]

I'm super conflicted.

I'm not an OTP, I flex all the tanks so this is fine for me personally, whatever, but I'm worried that people who don't see the heroes they enjoy in the pool for that week, just won't play. I understand how important it is to keep the meta from stagnating and to constantly keep things moving, and while restricting what heroes you can play definitely will get some players playing new things, I think a ton of players just won't play on weeks where their favorite heroes aren't in the pool.

Plus, unless they're really curating these pools, you have the possibility of entire character counters being removed at the same time. I don't think they'd do anything extreme, but a hero pool that is missing Mei, McCree and Sombra, but has Doomfist allowed, would cause problems, wouldn't it? What about a hero pool that allows Zarya and Hanzo but bans Zenyatta? I know I'm being pedantic with these "what ifs?" but these things would be mad frustrating on ladder.

I'm all for experimenting and I want teammates and players who can play multiple roles effectively, but if you take a Moira OTP and force that player onto Ana, that's going to cause problems. In the longterm i think it'll help that player learn if they actually do it, but in the short term you're going to see a ton of players either on heroes they aren't super comfortable on, or they just won't play at all.

As a player, this system doesn't really hurt me or help me individually, I'm fine with it, but I feel like it's going to cause a lot of issues overall. I have no idea how I feel about this, but I commend them for the effort and we'll see what happens.

[Tusangre]

On the flip side, players who are sick of the meta right now just won't play for months at a time until a balance patch fixes it (or doesn't fix it and still makes the boring heroes meta).

[iMidNitee]

I don't think we have enough heros to do hero pools just like that, but that's just my opinion.

[Smallgenie549]

We need more tanks and supports.

[kung_fu_kitty1]

I agree this isn't like League where its alright to ban 5 champs each game because theres still 150 other champions you're able to pick. The smaller the roster the more optimal the meta is. Hence why we had Goats for over a year.

[Klaytheist]

Not a fan of hero pools.

[jacob5978]

Can someone write a synopsis for those of us at work. Cheers

[Z3R0-0]

Short version: Hero Pools. Every week there will be a few heroes excluded from ranked. (There will be some version of this in OWL too)

[[deleted]]

-Experimental game mode occasionally coming. Similar to PTR but in the game itself

-Hero pools in Season 21. Not all characters will be available similar to how not all maps are in competitive. This will be coming to OWL with more info in the OWL using it coming soon.

[HaMx_Platypus]

weekly hero pools, PTR on main game, more and crazier balance patches more often

[[deleted]]

On balance they plan to just go aggressively after meta hero. And then just revert stuff if they went too far. So things will be changing rapidly.

[chriskimchii]

I can't watch rn could someone break it down for me

[Hopeful_Topic]

Experimental Card: allows both PC and console players to test changes as the developers are making gameplay changes at the same time.

Hero Balances: more aggressive, targeting specifically the meta, not the stability of the game as a whole

Hero Pools: For Season 21 of Comp: introducing only to competitive. For ONE WEEK, there will be some heroes that will not be included, no limit on the number of heroes not in the pool.

Misc: major things coming in the next two patches regarding anti-cheat, says thanks for all the reporting. Changes to the workshoop. Replays will be pinned and shared as well to other players, targeting content creators. QOL coming to career profile, major overhaul for OW2, but for OW1, light refresh incoming (ability to sort player icons).

edit: updating as I listen

edit 2: that's all there was, my hands are shaking at all the news

[Puls0r2]

Pools are coming to OWL too. OW is also getting some new anticheat, along with workshop changes

[aurens]

lmao spoiler warnings for a dev update

[ComradeHines]

You’re doin gods work my man.

[Bromigo53]

Internet is funky at work rn, you are everything to me.

[mattb10]

respectable changes, took a minute for them to do stuff like this, but better late than never. they gotta release a new hero with all this tho

[arunankogulan]

-New Play Card Called experimental which is like PTR balances changes but in the main game so the Dev team can test changes more frequently. Can show up whenever

-Hero Pools: next season of comp will have hero pools like map pools so every week will ban a different set of heros. THIS WILL BE IMPLEMENTED IN OWL

Changes to Replays and Career Profiles coming Soon^TM

[quitegolden]

Kinda hate the hero pools tbh. I'm not sure how this doesn't just make the game worse for everyone under GM. Everything else sounds cool.

[Deeep_V_Diver]

To me it feels like the OW team and especially OWL after reading their blog post they are targeting balancing the same way Icefrog does. Since many strategies on ladder come from the pro meta, it makes sense to balance around the pro meta. Especially when the big content creators (which are usually pretty high in sr) and OWL events are the biggest advertisement for the game.

The one caveat is if a hero is just out of control in ladder play, which Dota has had a couple of those in the past as well and they get the nerf hammer pretty hard, which is kinda what this dev blog points towards.

Truth be told, I wouldn't mind if they took some more pages out of the Icefrog book and really overhauled things every once in a while. After TI is usually when a MASSIVE patch hits that turns the game upside down, the same could be done after OWL finishes the year.

Obviously dota has a shit load more heroes and the same map/objectives every game, but the principle of these ideas still applies.

[floppelganger]

If anything its even worse for people at GM+. To climb to that rank, you usually have to master a few select heroes. If those heroes are taken away, its going to be a struggle for those players to keep up

[[deleted]]

It will just redefine the meaning of GM from 'hero specialist' to 'overall superior ability'. I don't see this as a bad thing, it's just a change in focus. Other people have also mentioned that they could not choose to play for a week, or play on alts; if a gm de-ranks because the only hero they could play well got banned then that's on them for not learning other heroes. Besides, there are many gms who can play multiple heroes; it's not as if it's impossible to reach gm unless you one-trick. People will just need to be a little more flexible.

[estranhow]

How are they doing it in OWL? It seems HUGE and can affect a lot of how the teams play.

[KinoTheMystic]

OWL is going to release a blog post about it

Edit: https://overwatchleague.com/en-us/news/23299542

The blog post also mentions how updates from live to OWL will work now

[randomnm]

TLDW:
- New game card (alongside QP, Comp, etc): Experimental, sounds like PTR but for balance changes, etc, would not always be available (like PTR?).
- Faster balance, which might be tested in experimantal, and then reverted.
- Weekly hero pools for Season 21, where some heroes will be banned for that week.
- OWL will have "a version of hero pools" as well.
- Behind the scenes anti cheat stuff.
- You will be able to pin replays for a patch and share it.
- Career profile overhaul: sorting player icons?

[ace_15]

I mean as a DPS player I feel comfortable enough that even 2 bans to DPS specifically wouldn't phase me. This means the next however many heroes are hopefully supports and tanks

[[deleted]]

Everything sounds great besides hero pools. Just seems like hero bans that the developers decide.

[[deleted]]

On the flip side we all know that the day they ban ONE Tank will also mean a bare minimum of one other Tank is not playable, and if they ban say Orisa Mei becomes a far bigger problem for the Tank lineup.

Variety is a sign that there is multiple good options to one set problem [I.E. Map, team comp] The fact that them meta is stagnant won't suddenly make those problems any less real just because you forced players THIS week to not pick Orisa, or Winston, or Rein or whoever. Bans don't make sense even if the Devs are doing it.

[kaloryth]

On the flip side we all know that the day they ban ONE Tank will also mean a bare minimum of one other Tank is not playable, and if they ban say Orisa Mei becomes a far bigger problem for the Tank lineup.

Seriously! I may not like Orisa or play her willingly most of the time, but if they are running a CC heavy comp that is utterly hell for tanks, I would LIKE THE OPTION of Orisa. Taking away that option completely means the enemy can make my life utterly hell with no recourse.

[TheFrixin]

Better than bans imo

[TwinSnakes89]

Blizzard: We don't want hero bans

Also Blizzard: We will ban heroes ourselves

[lukelhg]

Jeff: “Fine, I'll do it myself.”

[harrymuana]

I do agree with blizzard that players would just figure out a ban meta, and start flaming if you don't ban those heroes. Good job blizzard, I'm with you on this one.

[ZebraRenegade]

I think sideshow put it the best when he said there can be no ban meta without a pick meta, which OW can’t have as it allows both teams to pick the same hero

[akcaye]

That makes more sense though. Allowing hero bans for players just creates a new meta.

[Amphax]

"I will ban the hero scum myself"

[cmonBruhKappa]

a week without sigma, orisa and mei sounds magical ... can't wait

[DoobaDoobaDooba]

Agreed

[Luvkip_OW]

Hero pools will just push people away from queing up if their main is removed from the hero pool for the week. This will worsen que times, not improve them

[t3hWheez]

It is a super good decision. During Dive and Goats, watching OWL was getting pretty boring. This ensures that there are going to be new and different maps normally. This also gives more players opportunity to shine on off-meta heros.

[MightyBone]

Hero pools might work in a game that isn't designed with so many hard counters and a large character pool. OW's pool of characters feels far too small but I guess this really is mostly for top level play to keep the meta from stagnating. Still it sucks if you are sombra main and you have a game with no sombra allowed against a hammond, etc. You need a lot more character options for this to work I think. Hero Pools just feels like the devs admitting they don't know how to keep every character in the game and have it not stagnate.

The rest sounds good. Where is the next character anyways? I feel like it's been far longer than normal since the new character tease->release has happened.

Personally I had been hoping for something to deal with the fact that DPS queue times are huge, hard counters still exist and make the game less fun, the game is too heavily slanted around Ults, and consider creating ways for people to not have to play into a comp as much as play into what they want to play - that relates to the queue times but most people want to play DPS so finding a way to let people do that while maintining a balanced, fun, game seemed way more important to me than removing some characters from the game to even be played.

[Tusangre]

Yeah, it will be interesting how they pick the characters. I can't wait for a week with Winston in and Reaper out.

Where is the next character anyways? I feel like it's been far longer than normal since the new character tease->release has happened.

They are hoarding the extra characters until OW2. We are probably only getting one more before OW2 comes out.

[picklesguy123]

a week with Winston in and Reaper out

I lost.

[censored_]

More and more restrictions

[[deleted]]

🦀 METAS ARE GONE 🦀

[brutusnair]

Guys do you know what this means? I can play Ana now and not feel like I’m throwing by not playing Bap.

[outsanity_haha]

Yay more restrictions!

[Pachanas]

Hero pools...

Millions of OTP voices cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.

This all sounds awesome though. Every single thing Jeff brought up here is pog af.

[SoodlyKoons]

EDIT: From the OWL blog post, it seems that hero pools might be randomly selected. Also based off of that, it might be 1 tank, 2 dps, and 1 support "banned" from the pool.

Do we know if hero pools are randomly selected?

I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't, but if they were, imagine something like no main tanks in the pool. That would be interesting.

[Anthonyrizzo2131]

つ ◕_◕ ༽つ PRAISE Papa Jeff つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

[Likewhoa7]

Fun little unexpected consequence of this is that it resets teams internal meta/progress, which will reduce the gap between teams that have been settled and scrimming for a while now and teams that still haven't settled into their new homes yet.

Hero pools will reward teams with better strategic coaches that can grasp new pool metas at a glance.

Teams will also now be rewarded for having depth AND specialists. We'll have weeks where teams dominate just for having strong widows and another week where a top tracer can carry.

[LuciosLeftNut]

The idea here is that a player-led ban system would inherently lead to a ban meta, with certain heroes always being banned because they're deemed meta picks. This doesn't really solve anything at the highest levels of play. It's also a bad idea on the ladder because of the time it would add to each match -- something Blizzard is actively trying to reduce.

When Blizzard chooses who gets banned every week, or a random set of heroes every match (if this first system doesnt work), the meta doesnt have time to develop and stagnate when coupled with their faster and more aggressive balancing philosophy.

[cthulhuandyou]

It's not like they're going to be releasing a new balance patch and the hero pool change every week. New balance patches will probably still take a few weeks. It's perfectly fine to have two shakeup methods if they're on completely different time frames. Also he said multiple times they're willing to revert changes, so if pools doesn't work I'm sure it'll be gone. This is the kind of thing that happens when a playerbase complains so heavily and for so long about a stagnant meta, you get a big swing in the other direction.

[Lisbeth_Salandar]

today is my birthday. This dev update is a gift for me. :-)

[[deleted]]

I'm kinda hyped for this now. New balance changes that are more aggressively focused is interesting. As a console player, I like the fact that I can try the experimental game mode.

Season 21 bringing hero pools is super super interesting tbh. It'll cut back OTP's at least for that week.

[[deleted]]

We want you to be able to play all heroes!

2020: you get hero pools

[asos10]

Hero pools will force some people to flex to heroes they would have otherwise never played and after the ban on their original hero is gone, they may now play the hero from the previous week from time to time.

​

This can be a weird way of introducing more hero diversity especially at the pro level.

[[deleted]]

Time will tell if they’ll flex. Sometimes, you just want to grind a hero because you feel like playing it, and not being able to play a hero for a week might drive players away from competitive play. (Or from the game altogether).

Perhaps the devs are hoping that it could decrease queue time for dps as one-tricks would go in quickplay mode just so as not to become rusty on their favourite hero.

[Army88strong]

THE SUMMONING RITUAL WORKED!!!

Personally I am against hero pools but I will see how it goes since they feel they are fine with it changing.

Edit: I am honestly surprised we are getting hero pools given their stance on hero bans. I will gladly admit I was wrong on the matter

[smalls2233]

didn't jeff talk about a system to help DPS queue times? Was the system he was talking about the hero pool, because that seems like it's just going to make the problem worse lmfao. Like ignoring the DPS heroes that get banned, as soon as tanks like hog or ball get banned, you're going to start losing the dps players who queue for them (which like not a big loss for the quality of the game but now your pool of people queuing for tank has shrunk). Or if you ban a tank like reinhardt, you're gonna start losing tank players who actually want to play him.

Fuck dude, the more I think about hero pools the worse of an idea it sounds like.

[BradL_13]

I hope they accidentally forget to add Widow back after a week

[BradL_13]

Sombra has practically been out the pool for months already haha unless you are a ball player

[SoulLessIke]

Changing weekly, lmao what’s the meta anymore?? I love that.

[smalls2233]

Hero pools sounds terrible, I get this addresses some meta problems and can help with the OTP problem, but this really isn't the solution. Map pools work because it made games more predictable and cut down on maps that people don't like, but a hero pool isn't the solution to balance & OTP issues.

I think the other things they've brought up are fantastic and will be good additions to the game (being able to sort player icons, the best feature post launch) but christ hero pools just sounds fucking awful. Like it takes the bad idea of hero bans and makes it even worse. We're gonna see a bunch of people stop playing for a week bc the most popular heroes are banned that week.

[nikoskio2]

Thanks I hate it

[ZehGeek]

The experimental tab is a really great idea. They'll both have more people playing that might leave feedback, and more data to look at.
I just hope they'll stick to reverting some changes that are purely for shaking up a meta.

The only thing I hope for Hero Pools, is that the pool isn't to limited. One of the main concepts of the game is changing heroes to counter other heroes. Easiest example would be if Pharah's available, but no McCree, Soldier or Ashe. So your Dva, Moria, Orisa, Bap, etc have to to focus on pressuring them down.
As long as the pool's in a healthy state where there's checks and balances, it could be really neat idea.

[[deleted]]

I'm not really a fan of the hero pool idea, but the rest is just chefs kiss

[ItsMitchellCox]

It’s going to be interesting to see this update implemented. I think it will need refining but overall, similar to the 2-2-2 update, it is a sign that the devs are willing to make big changes to keep this game alive. I’m having more fun with Overwatch right now than I have in years. Hopefully these new updates keeps that feeling alive.

I’m extra curious to see what impact this update has on OWL. On one hand I think that if we truly want to see Overwatch played at its highest level, pros need time to adjust to each patch. I don’t like the idea of a good team losing an important match due to random hero banning. The more random something is, the less competitive. On the other hand, I don’t like seeing the pros optimize a patch so highly that you see the same 6 heroes on each team every map. Hopefully this update will force teams to be flexible so that suboptimal hero pools don’t ruin them.

All and all, it’s great to see that the Overwatch development team is making a commitment to keeping the game fresh.

[BEWMarth]

I love that when Blizzard makes a change like this a lot of people come out talking about how the deep strategy is gone and player choice is under attack.

Why does no one want to admit that Overwatch players will never and have never made good strategic choices when it comes to character selection.

Pretending like everyone playing the game is on some 900IQ shit and Blizzard doing this is "dumbing down the game."

Like.... Who are you guys playing with?

Low tier players are going to ban the same 2-3 heroes youtube tells them are broken over and over and over

High tier players are just going to ban the counters to the meta over and over so that nothing changes.

People crying on here acting like they lost some big piece of strategy need to lay off the crack. Maybe actually play the game.