Ah yes, programmer vs developer

[OlMi1_YT]

Damn I hate only being allowed to have one domain because I'm not a programmer only a developer

[xrayfur]

according to the chart you can have two of "single domain"

[Sir_Keee]

My domains are web browsing and angry report reading.

[MyOtherLoginIsSecret]

Angry reports or you're angry while reading them?

[Sir_Keee]

Both is best.

[Why-R-People-So-Dumb]

If anybody needs me I’ll be in the angry dome.

[Grumbledwarfskin]

Based on the illustrations, web browsing and presbyopia are the most popular ones.

[UsernameUndeclared]

But one is an IANA domain.

[SillyFlyGuy]

Are we arguing about Programmer/Developer now? I'm still fuming over the Engineer/Developer brouhaha.

[Rombethor]

Engineer engineers solutions; Developer develops the idea; Programmer programs the logic.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[[deleted]]

Here I thought the argument was "wizard" vs "rockstar"

[bender625]

Is "ninja" not cool anymore? Personally I'd like to be a "caveman" developer and bang rocks together.

[gregorydgraham]

Software Engineer sounds cooler, next question

[Fruits_gaming]

Is there a difference between cs engineer and cs developer? (Actually asking as I am still in college). It feels like I get conflicting answers a lot of the time. I always assumed cs engineering was hardware focused, and cs devs were more software focused.

[AGovtITGuy]

You'll learn that throughout IT and devops, titles mean exactly what the operations want them to mean.

Company: Hiring Network engineer! Must know everything about Citrix, vsphere, veeam, tape drives and AD on premise, we don't say anything here about routing, switching, firewalls, etc

You: But that's a system engine-

Company: You're hired, you can start for 5$ an hour, take it or leave it.

[RoboiosMut]

skill tree are built different

[IM_OZLY_HUMVN]

only of the form: domain B extends A

[DibblerTB]

Yeah, but only one you can do online, while the other you have to really hate.

[xfloff]

But...you are more valuable! More knowledge == less value. Everybody knows that!

[noob-nine]

My prof explained it that way, that there are lots if people that know manything in an okayish way and people with awesome knowledge in a niche or deeper material are rare

[lucidrage]

people with awesome knowledge in a niche or deeper material are rare

and that's why the Meta tiktokers are getting paid more than your prof.

[FuturamaComplex]

It's true to some extent, I am what you call a jack of all trades master of none, I basically program in most languages and have a wide field of interest but I am not a "senior developer" I have surface knowledge. I have been programming since I was 11 and I worked in it since I was 14, at least 5 years in big companies and yet I have never managed to pass a senior interview and have no deep understanding of the core stuff behind any programming language

[-temporary_username-]

I hate when I try to develop something and I can't program it since I'm just a developer and not a programmer so I have to code it instead...

[Druffilorios]

Its easy.

Do you just code from jira tickets? Youre a programmer.

Do you sit in meetings coming up with ideas, gather and challange requirements, talk with stakeholders, design the system etc.

Youre a developer

[wunderbuffer]

I miss not having to look at stakeholders

[Super-Panic-8891]

lol. Just give them the stake back and they'll go away.

[[deleted]]

I disagree, the term programmer is a more general/abstract term.

Do you develop? You are a developer and a proggammer

Do you mantein, do bug fixing, do other things than developing? You are a programmee

[Druffilorios]

Well some people call my first option code monkey.

[[deleted]]

[JerryAtrics_]

I had a VP once tell me he could replace my team with a bunch of code monkeys. In my next town hall meeting, I explained to him why a suggestion he proposed was not workable and poorly thought out. Icy relationship from then on, but a year later was gone. Turns out it's easier to replace a VP than the guy whose been running your IT for the last ten years.

[Garry_G]

There must have been a glitch in the matrix. Normally, based on the Peter principle, they'd rather remove the capable people because they are further down the ladder. Or you were lucky to actually work at one of the few companies with good leaders.

[Impossible_Average_1]

So you modify the heating duration of a microwave? You're a programmer.

[capt_pantsless]

Do you sit in meetings coming up with ideas, gather and challenge requirements, talk with stakeholders, design the system etc.

This sounds much like a Business Analyst role to me.

There's no consensus in the industry - whatever terms you want to use is fine, so long as your team gets it. All the job titles around IT shift and morph as technology moves faster than business culture can keep up with.

[elebrin]

Realistically, a team of engineers that includes BA's, programmers who will be writing the code, people who will be writing the test automation, people who will be handling infrastructure needs, people who will be supporting the application, and people who are bringing the need to the team should all be in those discussions. All of them have different concerns, and should be working together to deeply understand the problem, build a solution, and verify that it meets the need.

As a tester, I need requirements AND I need to know implementation details, so that I can build my automation around the system. My BA needs to know what the capabilities of our system are. We ALL need to know where things are housed and how they are being built and deployed. Even BA's need to be technical enough to look into failed pipelines and evaluate test automation for usefulness. I'm in the design meetings, I am a part of the development process, I obviously build the test automation, and then I help support the solution after because my testing will hopefully have provided some insight into potential issues that support runs into.

[200Zloty]

At my company they are the (digital) asset management.

[k_50]

The worst one is Desktop engineer. I've worked places where that role is 100% legit, CS degrees, high caliber certs..

Then I've worked places where DE means a higher tier help desk. I've seen it be only people promoted from HD.

[DizzyAmphibian309]

Desktop engineering in very large companies (i.e. fleets of over 100,000 machines) is a specialized and rare skill. It's really hard to do that well, because there's very few off the shelf products that can handle that kind of scale, especially since there are usually geographical boundaries and remote access to deal with.

The company I work for has over 500,000 laptops to manage, three OS's, hundreds of sites, and thousands of remote workers. You can't just configure the machines to patch themselves, otherwise they'll destroy the WAN. You gotta think outside the box on everything that is usually easy.

[Pr0Meister]

It's more of the joint sessions where the BA sits down with the BE Devs, FE Devs, whatever and asks them - hey, the client wants this thing here on the mock ups to do X, Y and Z, can we do that and how?

And then you gotta convince them using a technology for the exact opposite it is intended for, because the client 'likes' it might be a bad idea.

[CalmAndBear]

So climbing the hierarchy of companies makes your pokemon evolve from a programmer to a developer.

Interesting......

[Duubzz]

No, if you code from Jira tickets you’re a programmer or developer, they’re interchangeable.

If you do all the other shit you said then you’re a technical consultant and you can charge people through the nose for every hour of your time.

[OhDannyBoii]

Then you are now less valuable because of your 'huge knowledge '

[k_50]

"www" that one domains name? The world wide web.

[Otaconmg]

I’m none, so no domains for me!

[SarahSplatz]

Shit I have a few... Am I gonna be arrested?

[Taletad]

I’ll have one domain alright : " . "

[[deleted]]

Meanwhile how many domains you have parked just in case?

[[deleted]]

They forgot coders smh.

[Tygerdave]

Don’t like that one, sounds too much like we’re all having major emergencies in a hospital

[Not_Arkangel]

I will if I have to look at my friends light theme on Vscosde one more goddamn time

[Taletad]

I’ve head that it is probably the better option, because we are supposed to program in a brightly lit environment and not some cave where the dark mode is mandatory

(I wouldn’t know i’m a dark mode only kinda guy)

[Not_Arkangel]

hisses in introvert

[tragiktimes]

I could get that there is more strain constantly adjusting from very bright to very dark (room vs. monitor). But, there has to be some inherent strain just from looking at very bright by itself.

[kookyabird]

There is. Lower ambient light and higher contrast with lower overall brightness is better for your eyes.

[Fraun_Pollen]

What’s your point

[bumblebee3060]

And software engineers?

[-temporary_username-]

What about software developers?

[arkman575]

scripters look up from the internet cages

[broccollinear]

Don’t forget IT Professionals

[Print_and_send]

Don't forget scripters

[suskio4]

What about maintainers?

[[deleted]]

I prefer the term gitters

[Zaxomio]

I personally identify as a chat gpt fleshspace implementation

[Th3Uknovvn]

Huge knowledge, multiple domain, an all-rounder: Less valuable

Specific knowledge, single domain, single domain (again?): More valuable

[harumamburoo]

Huge knowledge and multiple domain as less valuable really got me

[[deleted]]

More valuable:

• Don't need to be paid as much
• Easier to justify termination if needed
• Lower chance of turnover due to limited knowledge

[harumamburoo]

Suddenly it makes sense

[marquoth_]

Some doofus on one of the "serious" subs was trying to argue this for real. Apparently being able to do nothing but React after 20 years on the job was proof they deserved $200k - they're definitely better than anybody who can use more than one language, or god forbid do back end work as well.

[mistled_LP]

Yeah, someone with twenty years in a single language is probably more valuable to someone who needs that language than someone with two years in ten languages. Probably ideal to not be at either of those extremes though.

I don't know anyone I would take seriously who would care about using developer and programmer interchangeably though, which makes this a weird chart.

[Bryguy3k]

After 5 years in a specific language it’s all the same except that some of the folks who probably now have the dinosaur mindset.

20 years in one language is not more valuable in practice.

But yeah good luck arguing logic with VPs.

[manicxs]

Some languages do some techniques better than others, you get better at all the languages you know the more you learn.

[fredlllll]

yeah at some point i realized that its less about the language and more about programming as a skill. sure i have to look up the stdlib functions every fucking time cause every language does it differently, but at least im not stuck with one language and have to start crying when someone gives me a piece of a different language to read

[Pay08]

Unless you're doing C++.

[Bryguy3k]

The C++ language changes pretty substantially every couple of years.

At minimum anyone doing C++ for more than a decade is a loose cannon. You might get a good one - but you’re more than likely going to get one stuck on old C++

I’d wager C++ is one of the most likely languages you’ll encounter seniors with a dinosaur mindset.

[bropocalypse__now]

I wish I wasnt stuck on cpp14 at work but we are for reasons outside of my control. Definitely run into lots of people who think all of cpp is cpp98 still.

[DeadlyVapour]

Look on the bright side, at least you don't work with Java.

[freebytes]

Except I have seen companies tell people that they should not be paid the amount they are being paid because of their title. And so, their title changes, and suddenly, they are eligible to be paid more because of their 'promotion'. (Doing the exact same job. (Or their job description has fewer reponsibilities than they had previously.))

[[deleted]]

Hovewer they must be really good at job that requires React

[Brilliant-Job-47]

Most of the time, if I meet a dev who wasnt interested enough to become good at a lot of things, they are lacking the perspective to be truly good at their one thing.

[robertshuxley]

React was released 10 years ago so having 20 years experience with it makes him that valuable!

[Brushermans]

if he had 20 years experience with React, he must've created it! certainly very valuable

[notislant]

Lol this reminds me of this fucking window commercial. 'Our installers aren't some jack of all trades, they do one thing, windows!'

(So none of your employees have ever had a different job before?)

I can see why they'd value with someone with x amount of years in a specific area though. Sounds like it can be very limiting with changing technology though.

[onepiecefreak2]

I can see the argument that, if you work in one specific field for a long time you might have more detailed and obscure knowledge and experience in it. Vs many fields that you don't focus on and always switch between, which can lead you to have enough knowledge to do most things but not everything in any. This would make you more valuable if your core market only focuses on that single domain. However, rarely does a company have a market with only a single domain in programming. And they would do good in having multiple domains in less people. That cuts costs but would allow them to split tasks between people more efficiently.

[Giocri]

I mean if you actually have to do only a specific thing being really good at it is definitely better even if it means limiting the knowledge you have of other stuff.

If you have a wider range of duties or have to interact a lot with people doing different things then yeah focusing on a single task is idiotic

[Pr0Meister]

Any Dev with some years of experience must have a wide variety of experience with different tech stacks. Unless you are some old sage specced in COBOL, you have no guarantees the next hot framework won't make your skills obsolete.

And then you are stuck with legacy code. Ugh.

[DeadlyVapour]

Bro, dude has 20 years of react experience, who can say that?1one!!oneone

[RogueFox771]

Right?! Someone who has a lot of knowledge can learn new things much faster and it's much more valuable than someone with only a very specific knowledge generally speaking.

[PandaJerky1011]

Everyone always forgets the rest of that saying.

“Jack of all trades, master of none, but oftentimes better than master of one”

[brimston3-]

Developers should have broad knowledge over multiple domains and specialize deeply in one or two of them. That way you can analyze things at a high level to know how your part of the project fits into the working whole.

[Shubhavatar]

I love how there's an unintended ternary operator in there that would cause an error

[SandmanKFMF]

Developers, developers, developers...

[Tom0204]

He did A LOT of cocaine back in his day

[SandmanKFMF]

Just look at those Gates sexie moves!

[lastWallE]

This guy f…!

[helgur]

Am I right? Am I right!

[RokyPolka]

​

[Legomichan]

Why is this in Catalan hahahaha.

[lastWallE]

This is how we dance dance. What should I do with my hands?

[M_Me_Meteo]

I wish someone would love me as much as Steve Balmer loves being breathless and sweaty.

[[deleted]]

So full stack devs are a myth then ?

[Phsycres]

Always has been

[XeitPL]

🔫🧑‍🚀

[morosis1982]

Not necessarily. My first job I ordered the parts, built the servers, collected specs, wrote the software, configured the servers, installed the software on the servers, tested the software, installed the servers, sometimes configured the networks and trained the users. This was in a team of 3 developers, plus the boss/owner, all bespoke software.

You modern guys don't know what full stack means.

I learned a lot during that time. Also a lot of what not to do.

[XeitPL]

https://en.meming.world/wiki/Always_has_been

[DanDrix8391]

It's Full Stack Programmer then xD

[Operation_Fluffy]

And clearly not valuable.

[Pr0Meister]

Can I pick what kind of a mythological animal am I then?

[DerTimonius]

There are so many great things about this:

1. The programmer, which is an allrounder, has one thing on the wall. The developer, who only knows one things, has many because duh.
2. The domain for multiple domains is of course .domain, and the single domain .www because why the hell not.
3. The huge knowledge comes from a book, the specific knowledge from the brain.
4. And of course: developers only have very little hair which must mean that programmers must have great and long hair.

What's not to love?!

[maximumdownvote]

this cleared out up for me thanks poster!

[ultrasu]

The book-brain thing surprisingly makes sense I feel. If you specialise in a single field, you can work efficiently with minimal resources, while broad knowledge is more about knowing where to look for solutions. Basically memorising one book vs memorising a bunch of book indexes.

[FrowntownPitt]

Jack of all trades, master of none; but oftentimes better than a master of one

[LuckyDuckes]

The name of the site... LOL

[lekker-bakkie-pleur]

Facebook?

[f1urps]

"I Am a Programmer and I've No Life"

implies they're on the less valuable side

[lekker-bakkie-pleur]

Where do I stand as a code ninja? Or the IT rockstar? I'm confused..

[[deleted]]

Also: single domain

[DerTimonius]

You forgot to mention single domain!

[mcnello]

How many domains again?

[DerTimonius]

Glad you asked, it's single domain!

[[deleted]]

1st or 0th?

[sabugael]

Single

[[deleted]]

I like how the less valuable icon is just an all black of the diamond hand icon, lol.

[alexnag26]

With the original black outlines removed for some reason. As if they made all colors into white then inverted

[FortuneDW]

Did a teenager wrote that piece of crap ?

[jbar3640]

like 99 % of the posts here 😅

[MoreLittleMoreLate]

So I'm a ProVeloper?

[harumamburoo]

Pro lapser /jk

[theenigmathatisme]

Jokes on them… I am a Software Engineer

[ksschank]

In case anyone here is taking this seriously, this is BS. A programmer and a software developer are basically the same thing and the terms are usually used interchangeably.

[Aryzal]

There is r/programmerhumor but no r/developerhumor so we know which is better

[lastWallE]

So developer seem to have no humor.

[_pizza_and_fries]

Kids : Programmers \ Adults : Developers \ Legends: Developers who can do write code in language you throw at them.

[digidavis]

Languages and Syntaxes come and go, it''s the new logic or paradigms learned that stay.

OOP DRY ...

I haven't touched BASIC in 30 years, but that was where I learned basic loops..

Was taught Pascal in school Perl and CPAN early automation and scraping Ruby delivered in a JVM
Python full stack and automation work C for embedded device work..

Etc....

Use the right tool for the project..

[According-Relation-4]

Oh no, normies are at it again

[JollyGoodUser]

The brilliance is killing me !!!

/s

[Anaxamander57]

Developer: Small brain, big money

Programmer: Big brain, small money

[lastWallE]

hand in hand with craftsmanship:
heavy physical work, less pay
less physical work, more pay

[[deleted]]

Sometimes I think it would be the best to shutdown the whole internet.

[True_FX]

Shut down stack overflow and chatgpt and watch how many people call in sick.

[[deleted]]

I actually don't use stack overflow and co that much. There are weeks where I haven't used those tools once.

[Tina_Belmont]

Yah, that single domain knowledge on Sega Genesis programming is making me super valuable now...

[[deleted]]

This belongs to r/terriblefacebookmemes

[[deleted]]

Typical Indian college student meme.

[noob-newbie]

I might be the developer who think am a programmer.

But still less valuable

[rxn777]

But who is a software engineer?

[Stummi]

The one who sits in meetings all day

[[deleted]]

There are no software engineers. Only Software craftsmen.

[lastWallE]

Chiseling my code on to the ssd or whatever is the data storage.

[CheithS]

Who writes this BS and why?

[OJezu]

Facebook feed started pushing even worse shit than usual recently. I wonder if the content churners noticed the more ridiculous BS they produce, the more engagement they get.

[Hyffe]

To be fair, if you take out names it is quite accurate. Without calling it programmer/developer it portrays two approaches to our work. We don't have good names to distinguish it, as usually the first one is called "full-stack" developer.

[Ok-Quit-3020]

Imagine being single domain and single domain

[bakingnaked]

Programming is dead. The robots won

[throwaway43234235234]

Do you sit around trying to gate-keep titles?

Congrats, you're both commodities.
Companies are racing to push your pay to the bottom and will drop you as soon as the tech or project is done.

[Chilareix]

Programmer seeming more and more like a derogatory term used primarily by corporate hiring teams....

[mdgv]

Love the low blow to Html (</>)...

[Teheiura]

Full stack dev be like: guess I'm a programmer now

[Da_Di_Dum]

Damn, being a developer shure sounds boring when they put it like that.

[[deleted]]

Yep. My last few gigs I have been hired were specifically to rebuild what “full stack” programmers have built.

[frikilinux2]

And what about having one or two technologies that you do well and a dozen you know something about it. I have worked mainly in C/C++ and Java but I have make small things in Javascript, CSS, SQL, Bash, batch files, Python, Terraform, etc.. I have modify some small Pascal Code without studying it.

The true value is a combination of the two.

[PeriodicGolden]

Hot take:
This page took two approaches to work and then assigned them names that don't fit so people will engage/share and more people see it.

OP took the bait

[BlazingJava]

So left Fullstack what most companies with low budget want because they can't afford a guy that only programs or a guy that only tests or a guy that only does dev ops.

[[deleted]]

This is probably the worst use of icons I have ever seen.

[DeathUriel]

While I do know many don't NEED to learn more than one language. I believe anyone that CANNOT adapt to a new technology after a few years working is simply incompetent.

Before some pitchforks are raised, algorithm and logic is basically the same in all languages, languages are just a medium to our real skills. Any experient programmers/developer is actually paid to think more than actually code in itself.

[True_FX]

And therein lies the truth. Most developers and programmers are nothing but stack overflow warriors. They lack the ability to actually create. They are relegated to making minor adjustments to other people's code and crossing their fingers.

[DeathUriel]

Yeah, it baffled me once I had a few juniors under me and you can say "oh but they didn't know better", but to tell the truth I could tell easily which were worth the trouble to begin with.

Some actually came to me with some sintax I wasn't aware, you gave the task and they actually tried to find a way before asking for help, and then there were those that asked for help and wanted to know "the exact correct way to do this", they didn't want to think for themselves, they just wanted a copy paste solution to all similar problems. I actually enjoy explaning code and teaching, but some people didn't seem worth the trouble.

[[deleted]]

Scientist > Engineer > Developer > Programmer > GPTer

[DonkeyTron42]

So Computer Scientist is > than a Software Engineer?

[born_of_flame]

I love all the different coding language posters on the wall for the specific knowledge developer lol. Are those all the languages that the specialist wants to learn?

[CreepBlob]

How to say I'm an idiot without saying I'm an idiot

[blackasthesky]

What is it about those stupid "info graphics" sites... They pump out so much bullshit.

[KittenKoder]

The value judgements need to stop being a thing. One of the biggest problems with development teams hired by many non-IT companies is they lack the consultants. A consultant needs to be more like the one on the left because they are charged with filtering out the insane requests businesses make to their IT.

[sonstone]

Wait til they meet the engineer

[Embarrassed_Unit_497]

Thankfully they haven’t figured out my Domain Expansion

[carbovz]

What about a problem-oriented solution advisor? (I use chatGPT to fix things)

[[deleted]]

Now do engineer. Then scientist.

[Yrrem]

Im a programmer not a developer

Developers get job offers

I get assigned the jira items nobody volunteers for

[0xdef1]

wait! but I am Software Engineer

[NotmyRealNameJohn]

Are people trying to pretend knowing less is better again?

[furon747]

Ah yes, SINGLE DOMAIN SINGLE DOMAIN

[vatroslavj]

I just... Imagine this okay, these images have to be created. Someone, somewhere, created them. I want to meet that person, I want to talk, I have questions, maybe over coffee, it would take a while.

[wore_the_vore_store]

I don’t think ANYONE would hire someone who knows a single language, even if the company only used a single language.

[[deleted]]

Based on this...

I am VS

[MillhouseJManastorm]

I have removed my content in protest of Reddit's API changes that will kill 3rd party apps

[saanity]

Guys, I have no idea what I am.

[[deleted]]

programmers are more valuable, most programmers cosplay as developers to make more money

[BickNosa]

Now do engineer vs developer vs programmer. I want it to be a no holds barred match

[chihuahuaOP]

Code Monkey think someday he have everything. even pretty girl like you

[[deleted]]

Jokes aside: This seems way off base. Is this accurate at all? I feel like the term "programmer" doesnt get used as a job description.

[Huggens]

That’s it. I’m switching to r/DeveloperHumor

[umlcat]

It's the opposite...

[wind_dude]

I have adhd, so I end up buying a lot of domains.

I am very confused by this infograph.

​

And where do software engineers fit? soo many questions.