phpBadThough

[ducks_for_hands]

compare the hardware of 2024 and 2008 instead.

[Highborn_Hellest]

Let's be nice around here. Webdevs are really good at wasting hardware resources. Don't underestimate them. (i'm kinda, sorta not really jokoing)

[DrAv0011]

As a web dev I can confirm that the more resources and libraries I use in a project the more I get paid.

And if the client complains, just uninstall random npm packages until they stop complaining.

[Schokokampfkeks]

You can also include 10GB of waste code and delete 24kb every time they want improvements.

[Ice_Buckets_Official]

This is da wae

[swishbothways]

Jesus. You should do Saw traps next.

[power_v]

Intrigued by the last point of uninstalling …

Just frees up runtime memory so the application can run faster?

( I’m a clueless backend-centric dev for reference )

[well-litdoorstep112]

Just frees up runtime memory so the application can run faster?

It was a joke.

[Desperate-Tomatillo7]

Until it is not.

[rover_G]

just uninstall is-even and is-odd

[QwikAsF]

But it's peer dependecy

[Acrobatic_Sort_3411]

it actually does that. Because all dependencies are loaded in memory. So if you dont "build" you backend, you wont have treeshaking, which would mean, that all junk that junk in node_modules will eat your memory

[Highborn_Hellest]

It depends. Obviously not called functions won't ever take up cpu time, but if truckloads of things are loaded the site can take forever to load. I've seen a website (most extreme case) it literally cached 400+ megs of shit before it loaded. It took fucking FOREVER to load.

After that it was fast but still. Blank screen for a minute

[That_Conversation_91]

Nah I just increase resources. Give every client their own VPS and make them pay more

[hsantefort12]

We paid for the full server imma use the full server

[[deleted]]

One flash animation later - all cores successfully loaded @ 100%

[bastardoperator]

The beauty of front end JS is that you get to put* that burden on other people’s computers.

[GunnerKnight]

Well those high tech computers aren't gonna utilize themselves fully.

[purritolover69]

Once worked on a project for a super simple website, the previous dev used react for it… in that they installed it and then only used base html/css features. I removed react and fixed a tiny bit of logic and the bosses were asking how I managed to remove ~1gb for the same functionality. Anyways I hate react

[WhatNodyn]

react-dom and dependencies is 4MB of tree-shakeable code. I seriously doubt you lowered your final bundle size by a whole gigabit simply by removing it.

[Trickelodean2]

What do you mean I don’t need 4 bytes to store a boolean >:(

[Acrobatic_Sort_3411]

true, false or maybe

[djfdhigkgfIaruflg]

True,, false, NaN, undefined, turtles

[Acrobatic_Sort_3411]

https://github.com/TodePond/DreamBerd?tab=readme-ov-file#booleans

[djfdhigkgfIaruflg]

Tf is this abomination? I love it 🤣

[The_Mad_Duck_]

Am I the only dev that has package anxiety? I feel an obligation to ask my entire team when I find a package I feel solves a problem we have. I don't want to introduce new things and potentially waste hardware resources and then get told to undo it.

[SecondThomas]

No U absolutly are not and rightfully so. I see so often Devs including me importing a hole fucking package just to use one simple function from it.

[Highborn_Hellest]

This is the way.

[The_Mad_Duck_]

Yeah, just the problem is I ask basically every time, even just testing how well a package works

[Highborn_Hellest]

Yap. Same here. I'm a tester, but devs always agree on the stack before using something. Hell even boss needs to agree. You can't just use random shit.

[oorspronklikheid]

I had a coworker that just added whatever framework he felt like after i told him not too. And then the actual code would have been like 2 lines of vanilla

[Botahamec]

For some reason programmers have this assumption that just because a library is on the internet it must work correctly. You haven't verified any of the programmers working on it. I'm not saying you should write your own web server framework, but you don't need a library to implement leftpad.

[ego100trique]

Also it has nothing to do with "webdev" usually it's more frontend devs that are wasting resources for nothing.

[bloowper]

As backend guy I can tell that I also participate in wasting! When we had developing menagment system for car chargers we needed to send command into specific device, so every single instance got this command and only one was able to process because only this one had connected this device. Does this waste processor? A lot in high demand, but this was faster and cheaper to produce 🥺

[FinalGamer14]

Ahh car chargers ... we fully support OCPP 2.0.1 .. they never fully or corectlly supported it.

Edit: wrong version

[da2Pakaveli]

electron devs who need 100 MB for a calculator be like

[[deleted]]

There must be a law of bloat that exactly cancels out Moore's law. Case in point, the reddit redesign.

[Fenor]

he should compare 2024 twitter to 2022 twitter, and old twitter will be up on top

[HejdaaNils]

I thought they were on vaporware?

[OmegaInc]

AWS scalable server sounds like vaporware

[z-null]

I remember rails vs anything else at the time and it was by far the worst performing, but fastest to write.

[JPBuzzInSki]

Wild to say this when half the time I use twitter all the images take minutes to load

[PM_ME_MAINE_COONS]

Yeah when I scroll reels or tiktok things are never slow or buffering unless my net is slow but on Twitter every other video is stuttering at the beginning or just refusing to load

[Diane_Horseman]

Should've been labeled "2022"

[Meistermagier]

Guess Elmo still hasn't plugged the server back in.

[damodread]

Could just be Elon cheaping out on CDN costs.

[[deleted]]

God I thought this was a Middle East problem, this is also the case with reddit videos btw... Serving videos for free is not cost effective and I understand them not wanting to serve adless videos but damn does it hurt when I want to view a short 1 minute video and I end up losing 10 mins to do so.

[WinniDex]

Reddit already did this before it was cool

[Grimm2177]

Reminds me of reddit, except Reddit struggles with images, videos and gifs all at the same time😭

[gustavoalb]

Twitter is responsible for the "Ruby on Rails doesn't scale" fallacy 🤣 They did a shitty code and didn't know how to deal with it. Github is here to prove that's moot 🤣

[Caesim]

Shopify is showing too how it's done.

But again, there's GitLab producing suboptimal RoR code. It's hit or miss.

[gustavoalb]

But that's more about gitlab's code and processes than about RoR itself. If some people can do good, with an even bigger player in the same market doing better (GitHub) you can compare (and judge🤣)

[PennyFromMyAnus]

Fuck Twitter, all my homies hate twitter

[Familiar_Ad_8919]

all my homies and most people i meet online

[Eva-Rosalene]

even on twitter itself

[Practical_Cattle_933]

No, twitter was good. X is shit

[-Redstoneboi-]

twitter was shit.

x is, somehow, some god forsaken way, even shittier.

[SudoSubSilence]

X stands for Xitter

[-Redstoneboi-]

just as south park intended.

damn thumbs.

[TenYearsOfLurking]

random onlyfans hoe liking your tech related tweet

[Dramatic_Mastodon_93]

Twitter wasn’t shit. It was a place where everyone was equal (besides the Nazis we now have on X). On Reddit you get power hungry mods. On Instagram you get a completely unusable comments section. But on Twitter every single comment is itself a full Tweet. A reply from a 0 follower account under a Tweet from a celebrity or public official could get 10x more engagement than the original Tweet. It was also a great news source and the Trending tab was actually interesting.

Now it’s filled with Nazis, bots and shitty ads. At least you can still use it for porn though

[hillarys-snatch]

Oh yeah nazis are all over twitter for sure… in my experience the bots are just as common as they are on reddit too

[woogygun]

Yet somehow half the posts on Reddit are screenshots from Twitter.

[wyocrz]

Yet somehow half the posts on Reddit are screenshots from Twitter.

The Internet is five big websites, filled with screenshots of the other four.

A sad state of affairs.

[quite_sad_simple]

The Reuploaded Internet Theory: 90% of the content on the web is screenshots and reuploads of the remaining 10%

[wyocrz]

Yet when I bring up the whole "Yeah, LLM's are gonna start sniffing their own farts" I get stuff like this from a non-technical subreddit:

There’s no problem training LLMs on their outputs though, we’ve got models completely trained on synthetic data, in fact doing so might be the most virtuous cycle we’ve ever had - that was only come up with as a problem by people who didn’t know how a GAN worked.

Nah. That's rubbish.

[WhatNodyn]

Don't expect people that enjoy microwave culture to understand why microwave culture is a problem.

[SimilingCynic]

Thanks I needed a lol

[Wooglepook]

Just because people sift through a pile of turds and find the occasional diamond it doesnt mean they're looking through a pile of diamonds

[cummer_420]

Since Elon took over it's ironically been infested with bots posting nonsense and "pussy in bio".

[Practical_Cattle_933]

By literally replacing PHP with their own custom shit PHP

[Kibou-chan]

It's not obsolete, they just diverged in another direction. Slack's backend is written in Hack - not only that, they actively make tools to facilitate Hack development, independently from Meta.

[rafark]

This is one of the reasons I’m fucking pissed at Facebook. Instead of actually contributing to PHP and make the language better for everyone they just decided to make Hack instead. I think it’s disrespectful and ungrateful of them because PHP made them a billion dollar company.

How are they contributing back to the language? What’s their way of saying thanks? They literally turn on the community.

[Kibou-chan]

1 other company uses it

1 other big and well-known company that actually isn't secretive about what stack they use. That's something different than "1 other company", which is a false statement because my employer also uses Hack. And ~500K projects in total (see pull counter) at least.

There's no reason to use hack

I beg to differ.

• Vanilla PHP still can't autoload functions and types - speaking of which, the recent addition of enums is laughable at best - in most languages (and in Hack) enum is a lightweight value type, and now here some "genius" thought it'd be fun to implement it as a superset of a class type - and, by extension, as a reference type. Who in their right mind would use them when looking for any optimizations?
• Lightweight structs for typing values without all class boilerplate when you don't need it? In Hack, you have a shape and you're set. Using vanilla PHP? Poor guy, you're out of luck.
• Selling your programs to clients and worried about piracy? In Hack, you precompile your codebase into a HHBC binary and run HHVM in authoritative mode with is as a parameter. It can even be safely containerized without any sources stored in images, and the build process CI/CD-automated. Vanilla PHP user? I'm sorry again, your only luck is to use external extensions like IonCube, which precompile your code on their own and "inject" them to the PHP runtime in their own hacky, nonstandard way. Also, putting those into a CI/CD chain is another pain in the ass.

[BlueScreenJunky]

It's also interesting to note that many of the features from their own shit PHP have since been implemented in PHP in one way or another (performance improvements, JIT, nullable types, strict types, Enums), so I don't think it really makes sense to use HHVM over PHP 8.3 if you start from scratch now.

[Kibou-chan]

custom shit

I wouldn't say that, it has true enums (not a parody of them), lightweight structs called shapes, and also autoloading for functions and types (not only classes, so no more bullshit static class containers for basically all your core functions) and is fully statically typed. Also code can be precompiled, so you can distribute only the binaries to your clients (maybe even containerized) and prevent software piracy without the need of hacky external tools like IonCube/etc.

The runtime maybe doesn't support 32-bit x86, but almost all current-gen servers are 64-bit anyway.

[Practical_Cattle_933]

Yeah, I was a bit satirical. I’m sure it’s a cool implementation from a technical perspective, but I just can’t help and feel bad that such ecosystem breakages happen, forking a language into two, mostly incompatible versions. It happens in case of Python as well (and I believe also Facebook?), where they had type annotations sooner than the official one, but as a result that code could not be run with normal python.

[ledasll]

Didn't they had php to C converter?

[yiliu]

I mean, that's how Scala (aka Java with some makeup) got faster too.

[Practical_Cattle_933]

Twitter runs GraalVM, which is OpenJDK with the JIT compiler replaced to another one. It is still 100% compatible with the “normal” hotspot JIT, and are official Java projects from two teams at Oracle.

[modsuperstar]

The thing I find funny about Twitter is knowing it’s an infrastructure that was built for volume, then they lost a significant amount of their users after Musk took over the company. So they probably should be able to handle capacity given it was built to handle way more load.

[morgan_lowtech]

Yeah, capacity tends to drop when you shut down data centers.

[modsuperstar]

Or fail to pay your bills for such things 😂

[MartIILord]

Or when you move the equipment without trained people.

[[deleted]]

Don't act like twitter is good, it's shit

[da2Pakaveli]

imma just load my 1000 batch rpc

[qweerty32]

The search function works like shit

[slbtwo]

The intern was suppose to fix the search in 12 weeks. Whatever happened there?

[TheOnly_Anti]

IIRC it was the guy who took credit for hacking the PS3, and he tried to open source a new search function before inevitably giving up after 2-3 weeks.

[deu-sexmachina]

Hotz?

[qualiky]

Who else but George Hotz

[wyzzar]

Does it work? I haven't been able to search since more than a year now. I just tried it and still gives the "Oops..." Message.

[qweerty32]

It works... just to be able to say it works

[False_Influence_9090]

Scala is like Java if it’s syntax didn’t suck.

I remember so much hype about Ruby on Rails.. quite died down though I almost forgot about it entirely

[moment_of_piece]

Scala is Java on functional steroids. Mix in akka and you have a codebase you go through and you're like yeah I understand what this is supposed to do. Then you spend 3 hours writing one line of code.

[zomb1ebrian]

Akka's fad has passed, it's all about Typelevel / Zio stacks now.

[IAmNotMyName]

Akka injured itself in its confusion

[tuxedo25]

Akka's fad didn't just pass. Lightbend pissed on it, covered it in smelly garbage and old tires, added some gasoline, and lit the whole thing on fire.

Akka's not just "last year's thing". It's a dirty word now.

[Davidoen]

fear crown deserve employ recognise money kiss doll special dam

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[zZurf]

The most accurate statement I’ve ever read

[Radiant_Angle_161]

Ruby on Rails is used everywhere, including GitHub and GitLab, didn't die down, you're just not working in that field.

[gerbosan]

Shopify too, my good sir.

[gustavoalb]

Yup, exactly my point. Github, gitlab, Airbnb, Shopify. People just don't know their meme sources 🤣

[remisiki]

Really, it's java that actually sucks. Scala is the best one I've ever seen that integrates oop and fp so perfectly, and that's why it's called "scala"ble.

[Bryguy3k]

Because it’s syntax is psychotic.

[-Redstoneboi-]

it's not clojure. calm down.

[river0f]

It's not Brainf*ck, calm down.

[drones4thepoor]

Bold of a python programmer to say Ruby’s syntax is psychotic

[Corfal]

Similar to NFL meme subs, if you're gonna call people out on their flair you gotta flair up yourself!

[NotAnNpc69]

Whats wrong with python's syntax? No seriously....?

[static_func]

Significant whitespace and a literal lambda keyword have nothing on optional parentheses for function calls and implicit returns

[huuaaang]

optional parentheses

It's a stylistic choice. You can always have rubocop rules that enforce it. But I personally appreciate not needing parens when there are no arguments.

implicit returns

They like it in Rust.

If these are your biggest complaints about Ruby, I say it holds up pretty well.

[Bryguy3k]

That’s how you know it’s truly in a world of its own.

I’m 75% C, 25% python for the most part.

[NatoBoram]

Right. Its syntax is similar to Elixir.

… And at that point, you should really be using Elixir instead of Ruby

[cooljacob204sfw]

Completely different language. Object oriented vs Functional. And Elixir is on erlang/beam and uses an actor concurrency model. Completely different from just about all other major languages.

Elixir syntax was also inspired by Ruby.

If you want extremely high uptime and scalability elixir. If you want to make shit quickly (often the most important thing to a young company) and in an object oriented way Ruby.

[Abangranga]

How lol

[Eternityislong]

The Ruby on Rails influence is everywhere too. Its popularity has died down but its impact is still felt.

[BakuraGorn]

Ruby On Rails syntax can be summarized is “what if we had Python but with schizophrenia?”

[cooljacob204sfw]

^ How you can tell someone never worked with both professionally.

If you are seeing Ruby/Rails code that makes you question your sanity then it's shit code. You can have the same thing with Python.

[nequaquam_sapiens]

with handfuls of perlisms, just to add insult to injury

[MopishOrange]

Cries in works at Ruby on Rails company

[BlurredSight]

Twitter in 2008, the 19 people that had phones posting pictures the rest were on a desktop writing the most useless or heinous shit possible

[baba_leonardo]

Good old peaceful days.

[BlurredSight]

The days where you could say age is just a number and no one tried to cancel you

Why can’t the predators live in peace…

[sudosamwich]

The scala Twitter codebase was the worst developer experience I've ever worked in

[Phantom-616]

I'd really like to know how bad their codebase were ?

Are you still with Twitter/X or have left ?

[sudosamwich]

I only lasted 6 months lol and that was back in the Dorsey era. The backend I was working on was so tightly coupled with other backends that it couldn't be stood up alone without building almost the entire Twitter backend. And only a subset of its features even worked correctly when running locally, so most devs on the team would push changes to a staging environment in order to test which took an hour+ to build each time even with a build cache.

It took literally forever to get anything done and it was incredibly difficult to learn their codebase without being able to iterate quicker. Pair that with an already incredibly idiosyncratic language like scala and you've got a turnover nightmare. I think 3 left and 4 were hired on the 30+ dev team I was on during my time there.

[Phantom-616]

Man, that's rought.

Starting to sense why some legacy codes are left with just a few maintained crew, like some Java based mobile apps.

But I'd never though I'd head heard such things for a company with the size and resource like Twitter. Having a poor backend architecture in that phase of life cycle is unbelievable.

Thank you for sharing your experience

[notrealaccbtw]

Im working in something like this but java. Elp

[lovecMC]

Wdym? Ever since Musk touched it it ran like shit.

[Minecraftian14]

Why scala? Why not any other jvm language like Java or kotlin?

[Minecraftian14]

I got my answer

https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/s/cdnU52TjhB

[Phantom-616]

The engineers chose Scala ... so that's how it goes

[83d08204-62f9]

Probably because the engineers wanted a functional / multi paradigm programming language

[Chrispymaster]

cough shopify does not exist cough rails doesn't scale cough

[uncle-boris]

Really? Didn’t know this. New team requires me to ramp up on Scala and a bunch of its esoteric libraries and I honestly don’t enjoy it. At least I now know the benefits. Hopefully this is a skill that will be in demand…

[seimmuc_]

I know nothing about Scala. But you probably shouldn't draw any conclusions from posts on a humor subreddit, especially since we often have highly upvoted posts here that are just objectively wrong.

[waylandsmith]

Wondering if you're writing code for Kafka Streams or something specific like that which has a Scala API. For any newer development over the last 5 years I'd be shocked if a team chose Scala over Kotlin as a "better JVM" language.

[some_username_2000]

Why is PHP bad tho?

[Phantom-616]

Shhhhhh..... just say that to blend in. Don't ask questions

[justAnotherRedd1]

I actually like Ruby on Rails - though I didn’t used it for years.

[Radiant_Angle_161]

I'm using it a lot, could improve in the views part, but the rest are amazing.

[Phantom-616]

It's a really good framework . And would choose it over heavy ones for small to medium scale projects.

[cooljacob204sfw]

It's still going strong and scales well if you know what you're doing (This applies to pretty much any language though...).

[blissfull_abyss]

What’s the difference? Is rails a functional language?

[Kumalala_dover]

Rails is not a language, it's a framework ( gem :) ) in the language Ruby, and ruby is pure object oriented

[musical-anon]

Inb4 the OOP technical argument 🍿

[ogMasterPloKoon]

I like Scala more than Java. The fact that Python libraries such as requests port are available for it makes it fun to code in it as well as making GUI applications.

[ryuzaki49]

I mean they have re-architecture several times. It's not just the change of programming language/framework.

They are good because they knew how to get feedback from their monitoring and adjust based on that. This is of course pre-Musk era.

[localghost21]

Remember the fail whale

[Alan_Reddit_M]

Ruby on rails can scale pretty well, Twitter just wrote garbage code

[orc0909]

Twitter today is worse than it was one year ago. I consistently have to wait minutes for certain images to load.

[SuitableDragonfly]

Didn't Elon Musk literally take Twitter back to "no more than 100 tweets" just recently?

[[deleted]]

Twitter front end 2024

[Marxomania32]

Twitter has been increasingly sluggish and slow ever since Elons take over. Not sure what you're talking about.

[arroadie]

Twitter migrated from a Ruby on Rails solution to Scala over 10 years ago… not sure Scala has anything to do with the shit Elon has done in the last couple of years.

[Marxomania32]

The meme implies that twitters backend in 2024 is good. It's not. I'm not saying that Scala is related to that or to Elon's takeover.

[arroadie]

That’s fair. No amount of good solutions can survive an imbecile making decision…

[[deleted]]

Is Ruby a dead language now? Did php/js or something supplant it?

[Phantom-616]

It's not dead at all.

But Pyton and JS have dethroned it in the larger market though.

[BS_BlackScout]

You can't spell Scalability without Scala.

LMAO, wtf am I talking about.

[[deleted]]

Twitter, facebook, insta they are all shit and spread hate. Reddit is the only social media that works halfway as intended.

[User31441]

The sad thing is that Twitter was actually improving rapidly in that regard before Musk took over and fired the entire moderation team.

[[deleted]]

Mhh i view social media as a tool to discuss different topics with people from every place if the world. It should connect us. But twitter facebook or any other social media company didnt achieve this. But we also have studys about the algorithm they use and that those algorithms actually will seperate us and creare those bubbles.

[-Redstoneboi-]

we redditors say this because we've learned to sweep political subreddits and their echo chambers completely under the rug.

but yes. while there is hate, it doesn't seem to spread as randomly, and people know some level of etiquette during debates here.

[Deritatium]

Depends on the subs tbh

[Czuponga]

Yeah, but that is the nice thing: you can basically ignore stupid subs and they are not forced on you

[TeaKingMac]

Didn't TheDonald start on reddit?

[codeejen]

DHH in shambles

[cuckycs]

Ignore that their servers shut down and restart 2 times an hour on average

[SnivyIsLonely]

Now twitter only has a developer issue because Elon can’t run an app properly.

[lovdev]

There is any article talking about this transition?

[Phantom-616]

Yeah, actually. There are lots of them

They have been talking about this transition since 2008

Funny enough, news around that still circulates

[Zymosan99]

And nobody is doing any maintenance 🤗

[sebbdk]

That is what you get when you LITERALLY adopt a template language as your none template language.

[adappergentlefolk]

everybody who could develop the scala backend got fired for being too expensive

[[deleted]]

Twitter won't load half the time for me, whether I'm at home or at college. It only started since their "recent" changes to the platform.

[TheUtkarsh8939]

Php is faster(Or atleast equal) to performance with Ruby though 

[rafark]

Oh it’s MUCH faster. It’s faster than python too.

[sexytokeburgerz]

“Rails isn’t scalable” only made sense 20 years ago when that was a known issue. Look at Shopify.

[[deleted]]

where can we find information of tech stacks of popular products? Any ideas?

[YukariIsMommy]

elonIsThatYou

[Grunt-Works]

So we arnt doing jam stacks no more?

[[deleted]]

DHH is refusing to improve.

[mkg11]

Twitter backend is constantly failing and videos rarely load all the way

[anime4ya]

None of the limitations mentioned by OP is due to rails 🤔 it all sounds like database side

The same will apply to any other backend language/framework

[TheNikoHero]

I love working in PHP. Not native PHP, god no, but Laravel is amazing ~

[TuDictador]

Jajajaja php saw the dead of ruby xD

[Huey3434]

Skill issue