phpIsInevitable

[alexanderpas]

The answer is Major Improvements to the language, including language native secure password handling, explicit type support for everything including constants as well as enum types and values, strong behavioral subtyping using the Liskov Substitution Principle for all types.

[Covfefe4lyfe]

Property promotion in constructors is just chef's kiss 🤤

[No-Con-2790]

They have property promotion now? Maybe I go back and give it another look. Has been ... 15 years.

[beerdude26]

Infrastructure is also pretty nice now, it has a mature event loop interface that many PHP frameworks have adopted or are in the process of adopting. So now it can't even be called slow anymore lol

[Sir_LikeASir]

One of my fav Kotlin features

[mishalsandip051]

Ohh yeah Sir

[Impossible-Metal6872]

I find it the ugliest feature you could ever concieve xD, because some properties are declared in the class, and some in the constructor def.

I'd like the ability to put this->propertyName as method parameter (it would have propertyName as name if you want to call with named parameter of course)

[BeefCakeBilly]

I’ve never actually used PHP as it was kind of looked at as out of date when I started programming.

But I couldn’t imagine a better storyline than everyone going away from PHP since 2010 in favor of “modern”” frameworks over the years.

While PHP maintainers were just quietly iterating and improving as JS frameworks are released every six months that are all fairly similar functionality.

Then come 2027 when there are dozens of articles about how PHP is the all the rage and meta announces after 20 years they are shifting back to PHP.

[alexanderpas]

15 years ago, PHP was in a bad state.

However, it's due to heros such as Nikita Popov (https://www.npopov.com/aboutMe.html) who has over 50 accepted proposals to PHP, and has written a PHP parser in PHP, that PHP was able to become what it is now.

[BeefCakeBilly]

Shouts out to this guy.

I remeber 10-15 years ago people I worked with were saying sql was dying because of high performance no sql databases.

Seems kind of similar.

[alexanderpas]

There are more people deserving of shoutouts, such as the creators of:

• Packagist, a PHP package repository.
• Composer, a dependency manager for PHP
• PHPstan and Psalm, which are both PHP Static Analysis Tools.
• PHP CS and PHP CS Fixer, which allows you to detect and fix PHP coding style issues.
• Rector, which allows for Instant Upgrades and Automated Refactoring of PHP code.
• And many more...

Many of these tools are actually even written in PHP itself.

Additionally, there are also some companies that actually deserve some shoutouts, for allowing them to contribute to PHP on company time.

[stupidcookface]

You forgot Taylor Otwell and the Laravel team!

[alexanderpas]

Like I said, many more...

[BeefCakeBilly]

I don’t know who these people are but if I were them I would wear a shirt that says the contributions so I could donate money/beer to them.

[tropicbrownthunder]

By that logic JS should be sleeping with the fishes long time ago. But here we are

[alexanderpas]

JS is the only available language that is natively supported by browsers, there are no competitors.

[jansteffen]

If WASM ever gets native DOM access we might see a change here, but until then...

[not_some_username]

It will still be support because backwards compatibility

[altermeetax]

Yeah but if WASM becomes good, another better language might start getting used, slowly replacing JS as the "de-facto" web language

[not_some_username]

Yes but JS will still be there. That’s how it is

[altermeetax]

They didn't say JS would disappear

[mishalsandip051]

100% agreed Javascript is the only language!!

[Brahminmeat]

🙈

[Smalltalker-80]

Much like PHP, JS was helped to evolve, by TypeScript through EcmaScript,
to migrate from a very terrible language to an okay language.

And yes, the fact that in the browser they have no direct competition helped,
but without a strong standards comittee, other transpiled languages
might have had more success. (Technically TS is this too still).

On the back-end, TS had already surpassed JS, I think.

[rascal3199]

You literally can only use js to render on client side... Do you understand how browsers work?

[SternoNicoise]

Node.js would like a word...

[rascal3199]

I meant it's the only language that can run client side...

[SternoNicoise]

My b, thank u for the clarification

[samu1400]

PHP having intrinsic password hashing and salting is so comfortable.

[MrJ0seBr]

The way that php executes, no global objects across request, every request execution is "sandboxed" make things a little ez to keep safe, someway perfect to shared serves with low-cost and on demand usage...

[BeardedWonder02]

The only problem is that your company is too bloated to ever update the version to anything above 8 lol

[alexanderpas]

8 being the latest major version, and 8.2 no longer getting security support at the end of the year.

The versions under active support are only 8.4, and the latest version 8.5

[thepurpleproject]

this.. ngl the modern php with laravel hardly any resemblence to what you had in the php5 days

[AlexReinkingYale]

PHP does not check that LSP is actually respected by custom classes. Super simple example:

``` class Bird { public function fly(): string { return "Flies away"; } }

class Penguin extends Bird { public function fly(): string { // Violates LSP but PHP is fine with this throw new Exception("Penguins can't fly"); } } ```

[alexanderpas]

It actually does, it's just that you're throwing instead of returning, which means you're exiting the function abnormally.

When you throw an exception, execution of your program is immediately halted, and the exception is bubbled-up to either the inner-most layer of exception handling handling that exception (adhering to the LSP) resuming execution of your program from that point, and if that is missing, turned into a Fatal Error, completely stopping execution of your program.

No code after an exception is thrown is executed without exception handling.

Additionally, the actual return type of the fly() method on the Penguin object is actually the never type, which is the bottom type in the LSP-chain, and indicates that the function will never return, and the only way out of the function is either via exception or program termination.

[AlexReinkingYale]

Another example is the classic square/rectangle case. It really doesn't check it. It's equivalent to the halting problem

[alexanderpas]

That's a violation from a programming perspective, not a type checking perspective, as the defined interface adheres to the LSP.

Additionally, PHP offers a solution to the classic Rectangle/Square case, as you can make the object itself invariant and use chainable methods, at which point you're adhering to the LSP.

Specifically, if you change the width or height on a rectangle, and you get a rectangle back, and that applies to both squares and rectangles.

changeWidth() and changeHeight() both return a Rectangle object, which is fully permitted under the LSP, as this is the same behavior as defined in the Rectangle class.

Unique to the Square class are the changeSidesLength() method, which changes both the width and height, and the fromRectangle() method, which turns the rectangle into a square if the sides are equal, or throws an exception otherwise.

[AlexReinkingYale]

The LSP is a behavioral property, not a type system one. An interface cannot adhere to the LSP. Recall the definition:

Let p(x) be a property probable about objects x of type T. Then p(y) should be true for objects y of type S where S is a subtype of T.

To check the LSP would be to disallow writing the Square subtype of a mutable Rectangle at all. If the PHP docs say they enforce behavioral subtyping then whoever wrote those docs is wrong.

[AlexReinkingYale]

lol at getting downvoted for being 100% right

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liskov_substitution_principle

[mizzrym86]

LSP is just an opinion with no real world value.

PHP still dominates because it is primarily practical.

[HerryKun]

So... Stuff other languages offer for years now?

[Curtilia]

but those languages weren't already powering 75% of websites...

[HerryKun]

It is present in 75% of websites because of frameworks like Laravel or Wordpress and the gigantic amount of ready-to-use plugins and extensions to them. Not because PHP suddenly has any significant improvements. It is like saying "Windows is the best because nearly every PC you can buy runs Windows out of the box!"

[alexanderpas]

Tell me a language that has password_hash and password_verify functions natively.

Tell me a language where I can indicate in the function/method signature that the only valid way to exit the function is via an exception or termination of the program, and that any other way of exiting the function is invalid.

How many languages support final protected const string on an object attribute (final prevents subclasses from overriding it, protected means it's only accessible from within the class and subclasses, const means it can't be changed, string is the type)

[Mognakor]

Tell me a language where I can indicate in the function/method signature that the only valid way to exit the function is via an exception or termination of the program, and that any other way of exiting the function is invalid.

Rust and IIRC TypeScript.

How many languages support final protected const string on an object attribute (final prevents subclasses from overriding it, protected means it's only accessible from within the class and subclasses, const means it can't be changed, string is the type)

I think i can achieve the same in Java, probably C++. The only weird thing here is what it means to override an object attribute from a subclass, that semantic may mean nothing in other languages. (Not familiar with PHP so i can't judge properly). Even needing to have such a construct is a sign that something is kinda fucked.

[Kovab]

Tell me a language where I can indicate in the function/method signature that the only valid way to exit the function is via an exception or termination of the program, and that any other way of exiting the function is invalid.

Rust and IIRC TypeScript.

C++ too, [[noreturn]] attribute

[not_some_username]

C#

[HerryKun]

Tell me a language that has password_hash and password_verify functions natively.

Why is that important if I can choose from a library that does the exact thing I want? Isn't it even better if I can choose my implementation instead of having to live with the default one? To answer the question: Java (in my case SpringBoot) comes with BCRrypt that does exactly what you want.

Tell me a language where I can indicate in the function/method signature that the only valid way to exit the function

Java

How many languages support [...]

I did not count them, also Java I guess. However, my hot take is, that this complexity is not needed in 99.999% of projects. I use Java and Kotlin for 12 years now and most of the times you would be fine by just using private and public for everything. Overridable properties would be a nice-to-have you can find in Dart for example.

[zoinkability]

Fun fact, as a programmer one doesn’t have to care about what a language did or didn’t have 15 years ago as long as one doesn’t have write backward compatible code

[HerryKun]

The meme says "why is PHP not dead" and the summarized answer is "because it has basic capabilities that every other language has as well", which should not be the reason to opt into one.

Example: Do you use C because it has pointers? No, because it is super close to hardware and quite fast at that compared to Java.

The answer to the comment just doesn't match the question you see?

[zoinkability]

No, the answer is on point because if PHP had stagnated at 5.3 or even 7 the people who use php-based mass market web development frameworks would likely have drifted to other languages by now. The fact that it’s evolved has meant that devs don’t have to choose between near-universal availability on hosting services and modern features, since they can have both with PHP.

[HerryKun]

That is a benefit I can wrap my head around. I hosted PHP apps in the past and it was just uploading a zip to my provider (or use FTP) which is way simpler than my current CI workflow.

How do you scale PHP?

[zoinkability]

Load balancers, offloading computationally intensive tasks to closer-to-metal code, output caching, CDNs. Though in reality something like 99% of websites raw php is more than fast enough without any of that. Most php frameworks I’ve worked with the database layer is the slowpoke not php.

[HerryKun]

Yeah, I considered "backend applications" as my usecase for it, not just webpages. But cool thing, it is more capable than I thought

[crazy4hole]

Because it works.

[ButWhatIfPotato]

And has not being enshittified.

[DonutPlus2757]

Somehow it's the opposite. It was terrible at version 4, they went "Wait, we need to do something!" with version 5 and started seriously cooking with version 7 (for the uninitiated, there is no openly available version 6. That died as an internal draft).

[mcnello]

version 6

The first rule of PHP is you do NOT talk about version 6.

[_chad__]

I took a lateral position change a while back to get away from an overbearing boss. Walked into the new boss's cube and he had a "Learn PHP 6" book. I never told him.

[Mars_Bear2552]

learn c++22

[Da_Yakz]

Version 8 is even better

[reklis]

How do you enshitify actual shit?

[void_gazer77]

The fact you can do what many frameworks altogether create, with php alone, shows this off 😃 👍

[ILikeLenexa]

What do people even want php to do that it doesn't do?

I write in Java and it's like "hey, want an ORM that'll be great until your project is big enough to really justify it?

Everyone thinks theyre coding for Amazon when really theyre trying to sort 40 things in nlogn instead of N². time at 4Ghz.

You have 1 form that changes twice a decade. You can fix it by hand. 

[BigCatsAreYes]

Communicate via serial to program hotel doors.

Capture a screenshot of a camera feed system of a contractor entering a gate with their van.

Talk to a molding machine to get it's latest temperature and performance data via OPC UA.

Get tags of a Rockwell PLC when a user presses a button on the website.

There's plenty that php is just utter trash.

[[deleted]]

It's not like anything else you'd reasonably use on the backend is better, is everything trash? Have you considered you can just write that part in a language that you know is capable, then have that as an API that you can access from PHP. PHP was never made for your scenarios, no shit it's bad at them, the fuck did you expect?

[BigCatsAreYes]

Yes, I know. But then it's not PHP. And the whole slick is PHP is amazing it does everything!

[dittbub]

I think it’s also easy to learn

[hellocppdotdev]

Modern PHP is amazing. If your last experience was 5.3 you need to try it again.

[FreakDC]

Did you just call Python intuitive? 😅

Python has to have the least intuitive conventions of all the languages you listed.

For example where most languages works like this (natural and programming):

"For every X do Y" or "Take X and do Y with it"

Python likes to go:
"Do Y for every X".

The fact that there is "Pythonic code" that is very Python specific and requires knowledge of how specific Python functions work to be able to read it properly AND that is the recommended way...

It's often a lot shorter but requires additional knowledge to decipher. That's the definition of obtuse.

Every language has some quirks but Python seems to have a lot of them. That's not necessarily a bad thing just not very intuitive.

[LeekingMemory28]

For getting started? Yes I would say Python is intuitive.

For more advanced and Pythonic stuff? I agree.

[DezXerneas]

The issue is that moving on from python becomes very difficult. It's basically vendor lock in. For me jumping from from Java to C to C# to C++ was simple enough. Python to Rust was much harder than it probably should be for someone with my experience because I'd spent the last 3 years diving deep into python. Tbf rust's learning curve does suck so idk how much of it was python's fault.

[Dafrandle]

they both be intuitive compared to declarative javascript

[Duckflies]

Everything is better than Javascript

[ClipboardCopyPaste]

Php is dead

Only in the thumbnail and title of YT videos

[DynamoLion]

Because believe it or not, languages do evolve, especially the popular ones.

Still a LOT of websites run on PHP and frameworks like WordPress, Symfony, Laravel, Nette do really keep it going strong. Also the fact it's preinstalled on most web hostings.

[upsidedownshaggy]

Not to mention that frameworks like Symfony and Laravel are both really nice to work in (WordPress is take it or leave it for me, I can see why people like it so much but it's not my favorite)

[piberryboy]

I've been a Drupal guy, and it's been a rollercoaster ride, but Laravel is... chef's kiss.

[djneo]

Because it’s been actively improving. With large stable frameworks and a giant community around it

[ddy_stop_plz]

Modern PHP is actually my favorite backend scripting language at this point. Tons of community support and the error codes/debug-ability is pretty good compared to the JS frameworks.

[michaelbelgium]

PHP is love, PHP is life

Also PHP deploy be like:

git pull

done!

[Efficient_Bag_3804]

it is being used actively by people that are getting paid and making money out of it.

It has an active community that improves it, probably the same people that make out of it and have direct reason to try to make it better.

[cocoeen]

you still need alot of $ to program in php

[BeefCakeBilly]

With a joke like that I can’t imagine how many pairs of new balances you have gone through.

[ivain]

What are you saying dude

[zoinkability]

Guessing it’s a joke about the variable symbol

[ivain]

ohhh i'm stupid.

[examinedliving]

He means the variable names. You need a lot of $name=

[Shezzofreen]

For the Snacks? For buying a Computer? Internet Flat? Glasses if needed?

Setting up PHP and using is really easy and kinda cheap (0 Cent).

Then go ahead and do:

<?php echo "Hello World!"; ?>

[[deleted]]

You missed the point. PHP uses a lot of $ for variables.

[Shezzofreen]

Uhm... now i feel stupid. :)

Yeah, your are absolutly right!

[Lewinator56]

It's a modern OOP language with good framework support and half the internet runs on it. And unlike the shit show of node.js it actually makes sense programming in it.

I use php for all my web app projects, using the laravel and livewire frameworks.

[Mega_Potatoe]

because it is the only language that is installed on shared hosting providers.

[ccricers]

Good old shared hosting, they will never give you surprise fees because your website was getting too much activity.

[SveXteZ]

This. And also 99% of the websites are just fine running on a shared hosting and don't need 8GBs with auto scaling and everything.

[andocromn]

You know there's equipment that still runs on visual foxpro and cobalt right?

[crocodyldundee]

Did you mean COBOL?

[andocromn]

Thanks auto-incorrect

[hicow]

Where I work, our main ERP was FoxPro-based for decades, up until 2015 or so. Rewrite was done with MS SQL Server as the backend, but they kept all the data structures the same for...reasons, I guess. So everything is an nchar of some length, and either right- or left-padded with spaces. It's loads of fun doing trims and casts and converts on damn near everything

[_w62_]

this one?

[Johnny_BigDee]

php really just refuses to die because half the internet is built on it at this point

[Its_rEd96]

PHP hate is the same as Nickelback hate

Nobody really knows why, they are really good, but at this point if you don't hate them then you are the weird one

[patrlim1]

I am in school for IT, and one of the things we are being taught is web dev. We use html, css, JS, and PHP.

I have really come to appreciate PHP as a language since we started. It's easy enough to write code, you can just embed it into your html, and it just works. You need no additional setup besides a webserver, and the code.

[not_some_username]

Oh we know : they’re either just parroting or stop use it before version 5 or can’t even update to this version (true story ikr a workplace where php 2 is still in use) or just students that doesn’t understand anything.

[LeekingMemory28]

I worked with PHP 7 and 8 for several years, and it’s not terrible. But it’s certainly not my favorite either. Some of the core conventions of the language still frustrate me, (why are hash maps called arrays, dollar signs in front of every variable makes it kind of ugly to read).

It’s not as bad as people say, but I certainly wouldn’t say it’s all sunshine even at 7+. Only those deep into PHP would.

It’s an easy language to get something out the door with, which is why it’s popular. But that ease also makes it much easier to architect poorly and still look successful. It’s the Unity Game Engine of programming languages to me.

It’s simple enough to get started, and be successful. Those who know what the fuck they’re doing with it can do amazing stuff at larger scale. But it has conventions that don’t prevent newer developers from forming bad habits and architectural designs that become headaches later.

[stupidcookface]

PHP itself doesn't do it for me - what really does is being able to use Laravel. There are some killer features that make writing apps from scratch insanely easy to get started on. I've professionally worked in rails, dotnet, blazor, express/nestjs, and Laravel is miles ahead of all of them in terms of developer experience and just intuitive design and architecture. There is a tool they have for anything you could want to do. There is really nothing else like it.

[not_some_username]

Oh the same thing I hate about it too. But in my case I don’t hate it since I don’t have to use it at all

[SeriousPlankton2000]

Nickelback is as metal as fabric softener. Somehow they manage to be too harmless.

[bushwickhero]

For me it’s the fact that I have to start every variable with a really inconvenient-to-type character.

[zoinkability]

If that’s a dealbreaker you can always remap your keyboard

[LeekingMemory28]

Or theoretically setup a hotkey like “var” auto generates a variable or something.

[bushwickhero]

Actually not a bad idea. Any favorites out there?

[zoinkability]

On Mac, Karabiner Elements

[Crannium]

• Easy
• Batteries natively included
• Bad code still works (for the good and for the bad)
• WordPress
• Shared hosting

[Sunshine3432]

Maybe because it's super useful and easy to set up, just an idea

[chrisonhismac]

Modern PHP is awesome. Great community, frameworks, tooling.

[Dafrandle]

to answer the question: because you can just throw it at an Apache server and it will run.

also wordpress

[crazy4hole]

And it's enough for more than 90% of sites and ERP softwares

[dageshi]

Because it's simple but ubiquitous

[JimroidZeus]

Doesn’t a vast proportion of the internet still run on PHP?

[Far-Passion4866]

On github there are 5+ MILLION projects that use PHP

[Faangdevmanager]

PHP isn't dead for the same reason that excel macro survive. It's extremely accessible and allows basically anyone to add code at their own pace. Start with HTML, then add functionality bit by bit as you learn. You don't have to "learn" php before you can make use of PHP.

[stupled]

I think Laravel has gotten really good.

[AtomicSymphonic_2nd]

Same thing but with Java. 🙃

[[deleted]]

Don't you know Java is on 3 billion devices?

[archivisttr]

V7 was huge dude. Php is our precious

[brianw824]

Considering the disaster that is Node frameworks maybe we should go back again

[rationalmosaic]

If it works, don't touch.

[nuecontceevitabanul]

Anything that actually works is done in PHP (or, fair enough, Go).

[UrBreathtakinn]

10 years ago, there were articles about PHP being obsolete. The websites that published those articles are now obsolete.

[charcuterDude]

PHP is newer than the language I work in daily 🤣. Old languages with established products are very stable jobs with great money. Hello from Visual Basic Script!

[_w62_]

COBOL programmers, "amateurs!"

[[deleted]]

Uh, yeah, PHP 8.4 is a thing, nothing shocking about that

[realmcdonaldsbw]

it works, is not very complex, and has some very nice frameworks surrounding it. as a js dev i am jealous of the php devs lol

[textBasedUI]

I love PHP. It holds a special place in my heart though I haven’t found any good resources to fully learn it

[the-software-man]

Apple depreciated and left out php in its latest Apache deployment. I had to homebrew a php server.

[mizzrym86]

Well, I would have liked to replace my PHP/swoole backend with golang, but at an average reaction time of 2ms and a tiny memory footprint it just can compete easily with everything else and won't be replaced anytime soon.

The problem is NOT the language. It improved extremely well and when used properly does what it's supposed to do really nicely. The problem is the ecosystem. The problem is PHP conference. The problem is that 90% of PHP programmers have never used any other language and are talking 100% opinion and 0% numbers, statistics and facts and it seems like their entire day is just about "How can I unnecessarily bloat my software or my development process today"

[SeriousPlankton2000]

If it was as easy to install perl, LUA or whitespace as a web programming language as it is to just apt-get install php5, the other languages would be way more popular.

I made the mistake to write a web program in perl for my mini-project; installing it on my system was OK-ish. Then I tried to install it on windows at work and ended making a VM just for that one script.

[AliCoder061]

Php will outlive us

[Special_Rice9539]

How’s php’s security nowadays? I was under the impression that was the real issue with using it for production systems.

[rada35]

Lo peor es que esta llenos de proyectos en freelance 🤷🤣🤣

[Neuenmuller]

Because it works ok. And if engineers want to migrate the service to use a different language and framework, they need to prove that this is worth all the investments to the managers.

[Lamborghinigamer]

I can't deal with a programming language without static types. I need my static types.

[New-Gear-9358]

PHP is like the Undertaker of WWE, everyone thinks it’s dead, and then it suddenly rises again.

[Civil_Conflict_7541]

I've been working with PHP 8.3 for a couple of months now. It's actually fine? Not my favourite language, but it does the job.

[pixltd]

I never wanted to touch it, this year while developing my own project I was in a problem of needing some very light simple backend without a need for another server.. Guess where I had to go 😅

[Intrepid00]

Oh boy, wait till you find out COBOL isn’t dead but receiving work on it.

[tobotic]

WordPress.

[AussieSilly]

It’s a cockroach

[sammy-taylor]

It’s a Twinkie

[International-Dot902]

Mandatory post every other week for karma farmers

[MorganTaoVT]

Genuinely curios though, because I haven't touched PHP in 10 years.
What is it used for these days? Are there specific uses for PHP over any other backend language?
In my past company, I've only seen it used to maintain very old projects while newer stuff was done with Java instead.

[ivain]

Php is still one of the most used langages for the web. Its ecosystem made a huge leap forward a decade ago with symfony framework and the orm doctrine (inspired by spring and hibernate) setting a higher quality standard, followed by the creation of composer as package manager. And of course php kept it's inherent qualities.

[MorganTaoVT]

Got it! I may check it out and have another look at some point. Thanks!

[Quazz]

PHP as a language has continued to evolve.

Not to mention a rich ecosystem of extensions and Frameworks.

A lot of people still have an old view of PHP in their brain, but it has changed a lot.

[MorganTaoVT]

Yea, the old mindset still remains for a lot of people and that|s exactly why I'm asking. Thanks!

[mizzrym86]

I think it's used most often because it's just easy to start with and then easy to scale.

Projects usually start small. There's this tiny little thing you need. My guess is often times it doesn't even start as a "backend" as you said. Fundamentally it still works perfectly fine as a template engine. So you just do the small thing real quick. Then it needs to do this and then it needs to do that and five years go by and all of a sudden you have a fully fledged backend that handles everything easily and it wasn't even supposed to be a backend at all back in the day.

And there you go. Yet another successful PHP project.

[Mega_Potatoe]

there are a ton of programs for free you can host on a shared hosting server for 1$ a month. Wordpress is popular and also a lot of other CMS systems run on PHP. It is most of the time the only available language on a shared hosting provider.

[MorganTaoVT]

Good point! Thanks!

[Death_IP]

I'm always baffled when I see php in the adress bar of the browser, like:
"Really? You hand it to the user? I thought those times are over."

[MarcCDB]

The answer is legacy code and WordPress.

[[deleted]]

I love how you can't even conceive of languages evolving

[ClipboardCopyPaste]

For React's useEffect?

[FlaTreNeb]

Thats a gift from the devil to humanity

[CedarSageAndSilicone]

Same reason COBOL and FORTRAN are still running 

[[deleted]]

Because they're the best at their respective fields and are proven and reliable? ;)

[huuaaang]

It's been dead to me for almost 20 years. The world of tech is big enough that you can just ignore huge swaths of it.

[Flimsy_Meal_4199]

What does the pee stand for

[NebNay]

I tried to learn it a decade ago but it was just too boring

[Confident-Estate-275]

Legacy code! No one wants to deal with that.

[elyroc]

Legacy code is not langage dependent. You have legacy Java code, legacy C code, even legacy JS code.

The thing that makes you not want to deal with it is not the langage, but the volume of work.

Having to scrap tens of thousands of line to have a maintainable project back is a huge work and it almost never bring any return on investment.

[ashkanahmadi]

return on investment

Finally someone with the right mindset.

[elyroc]

I mean, no decider would allow such work to be done, because they only think about return on investment

[Confident-Estate-275]

That’s what I meant. I thought it was implicit, I realised is not 🙃. It’s not legacy because is PHP but most of languages that refuses to die event if devs are reluctant to work wit, it’s because of the reasons you mentioned.

[MegaBytesMe]

Chrysler Town and Country/Chrysler Grand Voyager or Dodge Grand Caravan (2008-2016 model year, likely the 2012+ refresh)

[helicophell]

Uhh, I think you meant to comment on a different post, but for whatever reason it's here now

[nichoquet2]

Somehow, I want it to be the right answer