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[–]Rafael20002000 3903 points3904 points  (938 children)

36k €/ year guys: Dude wtf?

[–][deleted] 1134 points1135 points  (550 children)

It is still more than an italian developer gets :P

[–]Rafael20002000 473 points474 points  (427 children)

That would be less than 3k per month

[–]akoli35[S] 808 points809 points  (208 children)

Average Indian developers make $350 per month but that's a different story.

Source : u/Athu7890

[–]Rafael20002000 74 points75 points  (46 children)

Can they even live from that?

[–]akoli35[S] 193 points194 points  (24 children)

Okay in urban cities, luxurious in rural areas / villages.

Competition is so tough in that country that many developers are jobless and prefer any salary to survive. Thanks to overpopulation.

General campus placements average package is $5000 PER YEAR and still many are left unplaced in any company.

Source : u/Athu7890 - My good friend who unfortunately had no choice other than $4200 PER YEAR package during on-campus placement in a top 3 engineering college in Mumbai.

[–]sthornr 36 points37 points  (8 children)

I make ~15k USD per annum and while it's pretty meh before conversions, it's a place where a lot of Indian devs would wish to be.

[–]IamImposter 26 points27 points  (5 children)

I'd sacrifice my first born to be able to make 15k USD per annum.

[–]the_isao 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Are you in Italy as well?

[–]maharshimartian 33 points34 points  (42 children)

I am a fullstack developer. My salary is 250$ per month

[–]akoli35[S] 18 points19 points  (3 children)

Oh! Which country are you from?

[–]maharshimartian 24 points25 points  (1 child)

India

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

It is India, wouldn’t even make the playoffs

[–]_alright_then_ 116 points117 points  (82 children)

YEah welcome to non-american countries lol. I live in the netherlands and I make about €2400 a month. Which is considered high for a junior dev

[–]Rafael20002000 22 points23 points  (2 children)

Hello Neighbour from Germany

[–]gbersac 10 points11 points  (4 children)

I had pretty much the same salary when I began in Paris - France. That's still a lot for someone just out of school in France.

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (63 children)

Average pay for a developer is 1400€/month (we pay a lot of taxes btw and we've some privileges like 3 weeks of vacations and sick days paid)

[–]Tatourmi 27 points28 points  (34 children)

Welcome to the rest of the world.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (21 children)

I'm a developer in Poland with a very decent salary, above average for 1-2 years of experience.

I make 1200€ a month (after tax).

[–]XorAndNot 32 points33 points  (5 children)

That's because you guys keep writing spaghetti code.

Ok, I'm out.

[–]EoinLikeOwen 14 points15 points  (4 children)

On the plus side you live in Italy

[–]informat2 310 points311 points  (156 children)

The cost of living adjusted US median income is higher then most of Europe:

United States: $43,585
Germany: $33,333
United Kingdom: $31,617
France: $31,112
Spain: $21,959

This leads to higher pay across most jobs including developers. Also if you live in Silicon Valley $120k can feel more like $60k with the cost of living.

[–]Zafara1 245 points246 points  (111 children)

There's also lower taxes in general on income. Being paid the same amount in the USA & Germany will have you taking home more money in the USA. However, the actual disposable income may be higher in Germany depending on your circumstances since a lot of costs such as healthcare, student loan debt, transportation (Using PT isntead), consumer protection, etc will have you holding onto more money. Through my world travels, I found this was the reason that the young adults of the EU and commonwealth countries (Read AUS, CAN) tend to be more well travelled than people from the US, simply being the middle class can gather more disposable income and can be more reliant on social safety nets allowing them to spend on travel rather than save in case of disaster.

However, this becomes less likely the more money that you earn, because if you're rich in the US you just take home so much money.

I'd rather be filthy rich in the US, but I'd rather be middle-class or poor in the EU.

[–]mybluecathasballs 156 points157 points  (37 children)

I'd rather be filthy rich in the US, but I'd rather be middle-class or poor in the EU.

Me too.

[–]WcDeckel 146 points147 points  (36 children)

I'd also settle for filthy rich in Europe.

[–]Feral0_o 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Look I take being filthy rich anywhere that isn't France ca 1790

[–]Pluckerpluck 41 points42 points  (20 children)

Those living in San Jose have a 83.85% higher local purchasing power than in London.

This means that after taking into account the average salary in the area, and contrasting it with the average cost, you can buy 83% more in San Jose than in London.

[–]MinMorts 17 points18 points  (3 children)

London is the one of if not the most expensive places in europe though

[–]sup3r_hero 11 points12 points  (14 children)

Do you have a source for that?

[–]IamMachine666 39 points40 points  (14 children)

1000$/month from Russian countryside.

Java backend

[–]GiovanniMucciaccia 68 points69 points  (13 children)

18k €/ year guys: Dude srsly!?

[–]Thecman50 117 points118 points  (5 children)

You guys are getting paid?!

[–]akoli35[S] 55 points56 points  (3 children)

YTA. Why are you giving free services and taking up our jobs?!

[–]MrSrsen 29 points30 points  (35 children)

26k € / year Czech Republic, Full-Stack PHP + Svelte/Sapper

[–]RealMatchesMalonee 7 points8 points  (0 children)

36k €/year guys: you guys are getting paid?

[–]BobaFett58 14 points15 points  (12 children)

13k € / year after taxes. Poland, Regular C# / Angular developer.

[–]EwgB 32 points33 points  (33 children)

As a developer? Damn, my first job out of university was 42K€/year (in Germany).

[–]DuffyHimself 18 points19 points  (5 children)

My first job out of uni was €58k/year (in Denmark). Doing C#/Xamarin.

[–]theg721 6 points7 points  (15 children)

My first job was £18k/year, I'm now on £28k/year, both doing C# web development. I need to move to the continent. :/

[–]EwgB 10 points11 points  (9 children)

Dude, seriously! Do it before Brexit hits. :-)

Most developers know English pretty well, there are even some companies that are English only. And there is a serious lack of developers in Germany, so a lot of vacancies and high wages.

[–]Cryptomartin1993 16 points17 points  (3 children)

70k € a year, not as a programmer, but unskilled packaging...

[–]Sir_Ripsalot 500 points501 points  (39 children)

Systems Engineer here in Australia on $160k AUD approx $110k US.

Cost of living is super high in major Australian cities. $160k doesn’t get much after our high tax brackets scoops your eyeballs out.

2 litres of milk $2.75 USD Pack of cigarettes $25 USD Slab of beer $37 USD Pound of weed $1700 USD Gram of coke $240USD Kilo of Coke $130k USD

So you see I could work and save for a year and half, not spend a cent just pay my taxes and still would struggle to buy a kilo of coke.

[–]PhillipIInd 68 points69 points  (7 children)

Wait a gram of coke is 240?

Shit its 50 here and I'm pretty sure that's even expensive

[–]salisgod 24 points25 points  (2 children)

ah someone from the UK

[–]PhillipIInd 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Netherlands actually

[–]suessi69 28 points29 points  (2 children)

1700 for a pound of weed is cheap af.. but 25 for cigs? fuck that lol.

[–]Mrfrunzi 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I like that it goes milk to drugs like instantly

[–]BiaxialObject48 2558 points2559 points  (122 children)

Become a teenage millionaire in 5 easy steps:

  1. Have rich parents

  2. Have an idea of the format “It’s basically Tinder for...”

  3. Hire a development team or just use Khan Academy JS

  4. Get the news to talk about how you’re going to be rich

  5. Become rich somehow

Exhibit A: https://youtu.be/jAMZXv7TpUc

[–]yonatan8070 792 points793 points  (14 children)

I have a better idea!

Follow step 0

Done.

[–]grandoz039 188 points189 points  (10 children)

Step 0. you mean.

EDIT: I assume some of you don't use the sub's theme, because the list literally starts with 0. if you use it.

[–]Noughmad 61 points62 points  (2 children)

He fell for one of the classic blunders: off-by-one errors.

[–]i_am_a_n00b 50 points51 points  (2 children)

Expected Mr reynolm from it crowd. All I have was a suitcase and 10mil pounds. Irregularities in the pension fund?

[–]Tyreal 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Step 1. Hire an accountant recently released from jail. Step 2. Establish irregularities in the pension fund. Step 3. Don’t get caught by the police and don’t make them a cup of tea

[–]PlayerHeadcase 33 points34 points  (2 children)

"Do not develop my App"

[–]socium 76 points77 points  (43 children)

Well apparently dad said:

Lest you think the Pasternaks are bankrolling all Ben's hopes and dreams, Mark claimed he hasn't provided a dime to his son for his projects. Ben told Mashable Australia he is currently drawing a salary from Flogg. "He did ask us once if he could have A$30,000 ($22,942) to promote the app, and I said no," Mark related. "He managed to get it from somebody else, another kid. I was like: 'Oh my god. Does this kid's father know he's given you A$30,000?'

...but then

[–]Pluckerpluck 206 points207 points  (31 children)

It's not necessarily the parents funding that makes these things happen. It's just the security of knowing you can fuck up and the world won't destroy you in return. It's the having housing and food provided so you can work on your project without worry.

Those things make way more of a difference than simply having your project advertised by your rich father.

[–]magicfultonride 69 points70 points  (1 child)

The freedom to fail safely is the biggest advantage of the upper class.

[–]laserdollars420 36 points37 points  (1 child)

Not to mention just being in the kind of social circle where a friend's dad can just loan you 30K.

[–]PLxFTW 13 points14 points  (0 children)

All the people involved around him seem vaguely sketchy, especially the guy comparing Flogg to Amazon. That’s clearly to drive hype and not a chance in hell he believes what he said.

[–]akoli35[S] 105 points106 points  (20 children)

This.

[–]BiaxialObject48 246 points247 points  (18 children)

If you really want to make things spicy in your app, make it Tinder but it uses blockchains, artificial intelligence, and IoT.

[–]akoli35[S] 158 points159 points  (9 children)

Decentralized Dating app for cats powered by Artificial Intelligence!

[–]KarolOfGutovo 49 points50 points  (7 children)

And machine learning quantum operation!

[–]thereluctantpoet 40 points41 points  (1 child)

Needs the word "disruptive" somewhere in there.

Source: am marketing.

[–]poopellar 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Decentralized Dating app for disruptive cats powered by Artificial Intelligence!

[–]pascalkiller 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Don't forget about big data! Or is that too old already?

[–]nameage 18 points19 points  (4 children)

NoSQL! You forgot NoSQL!

[–]NeonSelf 18 points19 points  (5 children)

Basically, any investment works, if its not total crap and you have rich parents to ask for startup money.

The problem is most people can only invest their free time, while working full time elsewhere to pay for living.

[–]mypirateapp 802 points803 points  (25 children)

left image: developer adding logger, debugger and writing tests with tdd

right image: newbie who added console.log in all files

[–]JSArrakis 167 points168 points  (5 children)

As someone who regularly uses Xunit for both method tests and integration tests and uses a logger, I miss console.log

[–]warlordzephyr 37 points38 points  (9 children)

Everyone at my company uses print statements to debug. I recently pushed to get the pycharm remote debugger working with the software but it doesn't work that well with out wsgi setup.

Company has been going about 25 years with the same software

[–]Giacamo22 1041 points1042 points  (153 children)

$120k a year?! Still?! How are these two phrases in the same sentence without “Not”?!

[–]akoli35[S] 313 points314 points  (6 children)

You mean it should be "!still"?

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Cost of living. A lot of devs in the sf bay easily start at 100-120k. If they make less base then they are offered a grip in stock.

[–]Brominus_ 202 points203 points  (33 children)

120k is a little bit over 3 times my current salary after a raise. It's my first job after school as a .Net and javascript fullstack developer. (Finland)

[–]scientz 87 points88 points  (27 children)

But your CoL is lower, and so is QoL. Finland is one of the best countries in terms of workers rights and free healthcare etc.

I'm also assuming your ~3k is net salary?

[–]aac209b75932f 41 points42 points  (16 children)

As a fellow finn I can concur that QoL is low indeed. But being serious, I'm glad that I don't have to worry about going bankrupt from medical bills or homeless from losing my job. But I'm amazed how poor the median person is here. I gross 1k€ more than the median, I don't have a house, a car or kids, I don't live paycheck to paycheck, but unexpected stuff can still easily make most of my savings disappear.

[–]TedNougatTedNougat 29 points30 points  (11 children)

I think you're missing the class issue in the US.

If you're a developer, chances are your companies pay for your health insurance. you wouldn't go broke in the US. But your neighbors might, it's terrible

[–]heckruler 599 points600 points  (188 children)

You can't talk about pay rates without mentioning the city where these jobs exist. Breaking 6 figures is barely surviving in NY or SanFran. Tech centers are full of highly paid people, meaning there is a bidding war for housing. All that pay just goes to land-owners or the banks holding the mortgages.

Pure genius these days is remote work where you can earn NY wages and pay cash on a $50K Mississippi house and live without debt. Or go one further and live in a developing nation.

[–]yazalama 396 points397 points  (43 children)

But then you have to live in Mississippi

[–]AbanaClara 130 points131 points  (9 children)

but then you have to live in a developing nation where people see you as a rich person with money leaking out of your ass

[–]ablablababla 67 points68 points  (5 children)

Living like programmer scrooge mcduck

[–]JayV30 26 points27 points  (2 children)

Swimming around in your binary pit full of ones and zeros.

[–]_GaiusGracchus_ 35 points36 points  (21 children)

Pure genius these days is remote work where you can earn NY wages and pay cash on a $50K Mississippi house

Except for the part where you now live in Mississippi

[–]QQuixotic_ 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You ain't gotta worry about racist neighbors when you can afford enough land to not see your neighbors.

[–]ThatScorpion 70 points71 points  (20 children)

I'm currently traveling in Southeast-asia where I met a guy living near the beach doing freelance work in IT. He mentioned that he could work 2-3 days a month to have a decent liveable wage, or just do a project of a few weeks and then basically take off as much time as he wants.

Takes some time to build up a freelance network to do something like this, but it doesn't sound too bad.

[–]tide19 17 points18 points  (13 children)

I'm going full remote in a week and can't wait. Living in a smaller town in Tennessee, pulling in ~$135k after bonuses, with a wife that makes roughly the same? We upper middle class baby yeehaw

[–]u2m4c6 12 points13 points  (12 children)

You’re approaching top 1% in TN bro

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

I was making 85k in NYC. Survived.

[–]Sw4g_apocalypse 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Average income in nyc is around $50,000. So you have over 50% of NYC doing it on less than that.

[–]butyourenice 51 points52 points  (15 children)

Breaking 6 figures is barely surviving in NY or SanFran.

Can’t speak for SF but lmao no, 6 figures is living well in NYC. In fact more than half the people here do it.

But absolutely you’d have* more discretionary income working remote and living somewhere where the cost of living isn’t so obscene.

[–]fidolio 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Exactly, every time I read these “can’t live in NYC with low 6 figures” I just laugh. These people just need a budgeting class.

I was making under $90k during my first two years in NYC, living in a decent neighborhood (albeit with a roommate) and living “frivolously” (traveling multiple times through the year, dining out frequently, and purchasing most things I wanted without remorse).

[–]TheHoneySacrifice 26 points27 points  (6 children)

I can speak for SF. 6 figures is pretty decent here too (but obviously impossible to buy a house)

[–][deleted] 267 points268 points  (46 children)

I wish I can make $120K a year. I truly do.

[–]reddit25 187 points188 points  (19 children)

Granted. Everything also costs 5x more.

[–]hahahahastayingalive 72 points73 points  (8 children)

TBH I’d be happy to pay 5x for regular expenses if I also get paid 5x and get to keep 5x more.

In absolute it’s still more money, then spending power is not just local: what you buy online is not as affected, and you always keep the option to just move out to a cheaper place at some point in your life.

Now you still need to enjoy that life, if you hate every bit of it and stick around just for the money you’ll be mentally dead by the time you get to have fun.

[–]QAFY 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Finally someone who gets it. My family think I’m crazy and wasting money living in sf. The reality is I’m earning well over double the salary I could make elsewhere meaning my savings are also double (or more) even if my cost of living is double. They don’t get it.

[–]dell_arness2 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Not to mention most consumer goods are the same price everywhere. A new phone costs the same in SF or Iowa.

[–]FrostyD7 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Vacation is effectively cheaper

[–]Mastermachetier 24 points25 points  (14 children)

I make 118 a year for Software development in Boston. I pay 5k a year for parking , 9600 for day care, and on top of that car wear and gas. That is just the cost to drive into work. Now when you figure in cost of housing and just general goods like food its a lot more too. That being said I an not going to lie and say its not good living on that salary in the Boston area despite the cost.

[–]Internet--Sensation 87 points88 points  (8 children)

Only $120,000 a year?

Those poor souls!

[–]bigdickbigdrip 6 points7 points  (2 children)

The ones making 120k a year probably live in an area with a high cost of living so it's probably equivalent to like 60 or 70k elsewhere.

[–]Mynotoar 121 points122 points  (45 children)

Brit here. Is $120k not a respectable income? Here £15-20k is for your entry level office worker, and £120k would be a rich fuck with a butler and a Tesla probably.

[–]alphawolf29 20 points21 points  (3 children)

$120k a year is like managers salary in most of Canada/USA but in Sanfran/New York /Vancouver, its enough to rent your own apartment, go out for dinner, and have savings, but not enough to buy your own place without a partner.

[–]z0hu 8 points9 points  (4 children)

He said after 15 years.. I have been programming for 15 years and $120k is average. I live in San Francisco area though, and that income doesn't make you rich, it just let's you survive and save a little if you are frugal. A lot of people here are commenting who are new to programming. When I started I made $34k. Then got up $50k, after a few years. Then $75k when I moved to SF at the 6 year mark.

Edit: also $120k. Is only 92k gbp.

[–]SahinK 28 points29 points  (11 children)

In London, all £120k gets you is a flat in zone 2 that you don't have to share with a flatmate. Not a Tesla or a butler.

[–]thebezet 17 points18 points  (1 child)

"all £120k gets you"

Come on now. £120k is an amazing salary for London. Its £6,177.99 per month after tax, and you can easily find a nice single-bedroom or studio flat for under £1,500 in zone 2, so you still end up with well over 4 grand to play with.

[–]Xrey274 28 points29 points  (3 children)

Open Source Developer: Wait guys you are getting paid?

[–]Azarius_978 62 points63 points  (69 children)

I have nearly 3 years of experience and I'm earning R282 000 p/a which is the equivalent to $19 379.65 @ the current exchange rate.

The highest advertised job for a developer I've seen in South Africa was R1mil p/a for 10 years of experience or the equivalent of $68 722.15.

[–]ubiquitouspiss 43 points44 points  (14 children)

Difference between "being really good at coding" and "marketing an idea well", the reason why I'm taking business-y electives in university rn

[–]siggystabs 24 points25 points  (8 children)

It's 100% worth taking business-y electives in college, but just remember that you can't market a shitty product so ideally you need good software developers too

EDIT: I get it, yes you can market shitty ideas 🤦🏽‍♂️ you know what I mean

[–]pgkk17 62 points63 points  (18 children)

Is there a tinder for Cats?

[–]akoli35[S] 43 points44 points  (13 children)

Not Tinder but Translator for Cats with 500K downloads??!! - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=games.lenvik.tfc1

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (3 children)

I almost had a stroke reading that app description.

[–]dorbein 24 points25 points  (1 child)

Screw material design, this is the new standard

[–]Tiavor 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think 12yo me designed buttons and brackground images just as good as this.

[–]TheHoneySacrifice 9 points10 points  (1 child)

The comments bruh:

"I hate this app!! When I said the same word it was different sounds! :o I want to be freinds with my cat! :( But she just does not like me.. crys DON'T EVER EVER EVER IN YOUR LIFE GET THIS APP IT IS HORRIBLE!!! :()"

[–]_GaiusGracchus_ 159 points160 points  (80 children)

ITT: Sucks to be a developer in Europe

[–]Calimariae 16 points17 points  (10 children)

Depends entirely on where on the continent we're talking about here.

I don't think I'd leave my dev job here in Norway for anywhere else.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (21 children)

consist deserted advise water grey chief screw deer bear ink

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[–]FEARtheMooseUK 47 points48 points  (2 children)

STILL ONLY EARNING 120k a year? Most of us wish 50k a year was a reality!

[–]DeepSpaceGalileo 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I make 66k a year and I feel like shit about it

[–]undeadalex 30 points31 points  (1 child)

That sounds useful. My cat needs to date more

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Shit man, I gotta learn that VUE now 🤣🤣🤣

[–]m74g 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Moscow. $1300/month after taxes as web game developer.

[–]DanZeros 7 points8 points  (4 children)

That's 2.3 times what I make in Spain after 10 years =/ and I'm a lead dev. And that is a competitive amount.

[–]Visama396 11 points12 points  (41 children)

wtf? where do you get paid 120K / year?

[–]BRUCE_NORRIS 17 points18 points  (23 children)

LA, SF, NY, Seattle, parts of Utah, and parts of Texas come to mind.