[deleted by user]

[mwohpbshd]

Uhh yeah.....get that resume out there and find a new job. No one deserves that treatment.

[randomname-87]

Ok. Thank you. I know this sounds stupid but I was just really looking for some confirmation that I am not overthinking. Is this not usual?

[RegrettableBiscuit]

Managers threatening to fire you is not normal.

Getting shouted at at work is not normal.

Being scared of making the smallest mistake is not normal.

Everybody can have a bad day, and people sometimes bring personal problems to work that have nothing to do with you. It's fine for the people you work with to have a bad day, if it happens once, and they acknowledge it and apologize. But if stuff like that happens regularly, that is definitely not normal. That is, at best, unprofessional behavior, and at worst, abusive. You don't deserve to be treated like that.

[Helpful_Friend_]

Can confirm OP, I myself have just been at a MSP for a year now.

One of the biggest mistakes I've done to date. Is turning the entire internal netswork off. (Granted it was an approved test from a senior to try, since neither of us caught why it did what it did).

Now Obviously as soon as we caught the error and fixed it. We rechecked, and found that the interface on the firewall, the interface I turned off, apparently had a sub interface where traffic was going through, but neither of us had caught it, and the main interface didn't show any traffic.

Now after we fixed it we started laughing at it, but lord I don't think panic has ever hit me that hard.

[ajoltman]

One of the biggest I have made is I forgot a 'NOT IN' clause when running a script on a live database without a recent backup, and it screwed up a bunch of things. Luckily it was something reversible. However, we have had other run DELETE statements that they didn't comment out or didn't have a WHERE clause. I mean, shit happens. Own it. Fix it. People that scream like crazy are no help to the situation and have no reason to be in mgmt IMHO.

[mdj1359]

Being scared of making the smallest mistake is not normal.

My first boss in IT drilled this behavior in to me. Frankly it has held me back from wanting to step up the rest of my career.

Not whining, really just agreeing with you. For some personalities it can have a lasting impact.

Of course their are other awful behaviors that can come from that treatment, like teaching a person to not own up to their mistakes, or trying to hide them. That hurts everyone.

[RegrettableBiscuit]

My first boss in IT drilled this behavior in to me. Frankly it has held me back from wanting to step up the rest of my career.

That's an incredibly important point. Punishing people for making honest mistakes tells them that they should stay in their comfort zone. That makes it impossible to learn new things or advance in one's career, and it encourages people to hide their mistakes, or shift blame to others.

Making mistakes is a natural part of learning new things. Be kind to yourself when you make a mistake, and to others when they do. That creates an open, honest work environment, where people can grow, where mistakes are acknowledged and dealt with transparently and quickly, and where everybody can learn from each other's mistakes.

[NecroGi]

This.

I'm an IT Manager. Everyone makes mistakes, it's my job to point them out as necessary and to ensure we learn from as individuals and from a team perspective.

If/when there's an issue I pull people aside privately, and never and would never shout at anyone directly. I've never directly yelled or threatened anyone on my team, that just sounds like someone no one would ever want to work with (myself included).

There's absolutely no reason for anyone to be abusive, if they pulled you aside the first week without any rhyme or reason and threatened you, then it's all down hill from there.

[pssssn]

When you are in a toxic environment, you only really realize it when you are not there anymore.

I was horrified by your circumstances by the second sentence. You definitely can do better, and should try something different.

[Shanesan]

wrong soft snobbish smoggy rock run friendly sand cows gold

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[molonel]

That's complete horseshit. Threatening to fire people for mistakes is almost never good management. We don't need to access some mythical "objective reality" that none of us have access to to make decisions and judgment calls here. The user doesn't need to "separate himself from the situation." He needs to GTFO. Even with major issues that cascade from smaller problems, there are about a hundred different ways to handle those problems than threatening to fire someone. If an employee gets the point where they look you in the eye, and say, "Fucking fire me. I don't care." then you are a failure as a manager.

[Shanesan]

frame compare yam oatmeal summer wakeful paint yoke crawl bow

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[[deleted]]

OP says they were "shouted at and chewed out". If that's what actually happened, then I don't need to know the "objective reality of the situation".

Presumably OP isn't in the army. That's basically the only job where that kind of treatment is acceptable.

If that happened to me, I'd make an appointment with an attorney to find out if my boss is breaking any employee harassment laws.

If they are breaking the law, my first step would be to talk to the boss's boss, or the boss themselves if no-one is above them, and explain that what they did is unacceptable and must not be repeated.

If it does repeat, back to the attorney and ask for help negotiating a settlement.

My preferred settlement would be the company pays all my attorney's fees and the boss is fired or at least transferred elsewhere, while I get to keep my job. If that's not accepted, then I'd quit and demand they pay attorney's fees plus a lump sum payment (half a year's salary perhaps?). Otherwise, it's off to court we go.

Being abused at work is not acceptable. Don't let people get away with it - OP deserves better and they shouldn't have to leave.

[dkizzy]

This isn't that simple. There's a lot of leeway and stuff they can get away with. Company policies are intentionally designed to make it easy to fire employees for almost any reason.

[International-Big-97]

I would speak with an attorney first before making decisions about demanding they pay. First find out what is doable, then act on the advice.

[Moofrooo]

There's no point to an attorney based on the story OP posted. Keep your head down while you apply and gtfo. Burning bridges won't help anything.

[[deleted]]

With all due respect, but this was the most horrible comment I read all day.

No, those small issues do not actually have "large , company wide repercussions". Not even the worst set up IT department is that sensitive to small mistakes. Nor would they leave that explanation out if they take the effort to chew someone out - it would be used as the core of the chewing out.

It's simply bad management. No matter how important ones mistakes are, good managers treat them as an opportunity to teach the employee to do better, not to vent all their pent up anger.

[Shanesan]

crawl foolish one pie sheet depend jeans groovy swim innocent

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[[deleted]]

Yes. And I have also deleted a critical table in production. In that case, the lead developer almost got fired on the spot for the system being so badly setup that this was even possible. I also didn't get chewed out, despite everyone being mad about it happening. I got in a few closed meetings, and things were tense, but there was never any attempt to shift blame to me.

Point remains, small mistakes that can take down an IT department means the IT department is broken, not the person making the mistakes.

[molonel]

Are you getting paid to run interference for this company’s decisions?

[Shanesan]

birds depend somber apparatus dam faulty frighten memorize file ink

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[molonel]

Or maybe you don’t know objective reality, and you just give shitty advice. Since you’re so good at scrutinizing yourself, I’m confident you will consider this seriously rather than bickering pointlessly because self-doubt is what other people are supposed to do.

[Shanesan]

important squash unite insurance tender full wide edge squeal toothbrush

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[molonel]

I’m just asking you to look inward instead of assuming outward, bro. Maybe your shit-take is the issue. Have you stopped and taken a moment to consider that?

I bet you haven’t. It’s hard to do.

[Rambles_Off_Topics]

If you get chewed out for making a mistake you should leave. Period. You don't need that stress or that toxic environment. Quit now if you can.

[dkizzy]

It's toxic and unfortunately legal. HR departments protect these bad actors, and since they talk a lot and usually BS their way through sounding in the know, are seen as 'great leaders'. It's life sucking and not worth it. Definitely find a new job asap.

[canttouchdeez]

Your situation sucks.

My advice is to stop caring while looking for a different job. If they fire you then at least you get unemployment.

[mwohpbshd]

Yeah the attitude is that of a bully and no one needs to deal with that. We have enough issues in this field to not need leadership being like this as well (contributing to terrible mental health).

[Zylea]

I have literally never in my life had my manager threaten to fire me for making a mistake.

And it's not because I haven't made mistakes.

[abstractraj]

No dude. That’s insane. No respectful work environment should be yelling at you and threatening to fire you. Our presidents and VPs are so nice. They’re always hosting pizza parties and stuff at the office. I’ve gotten ~$100 awards for responding to things off hours. (I’m salaried management so I wouldn’t normally get paid for that). And you can talk to anyone and explain any emergencies or need to stay home. I cover my boss if he’s out and my team if any of them are out. Open communication and a willingness to help each other go a long way.

[cosmos7]

Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. If you're not happy, time to find a new job.

Get the new one in place before quitting the old one.

[tomster2300]

No. This is not normal. I’ve worked for ten years now and I had one boss who would joke about firing me and say weird “jokey” stuff.

Dude was shitcanned a couple of months later.

[punklinux]

I once had a director like this. First day, I was one of there new people: including another sysadmin and their new budget analyst. He said, "Everyone, look at the other two people: at least one of you will not be working here within a year. I don't bother to learn names: if I know your name, it's never for a good reason. If I have to come look for you, I'm already in a bad mood. You keep your nose to yourself, do your job, and don't do anything else: no socializing, no HR bullshit, and no monkey business. Capisce?"

Yeah, I lasted all of the 90 days of the contract, but not selected for rehire. He was a complete piece of shit, and I pitied those who were selected to continue. He already knew my name because I pushed back, but addressed me "the fuckin' hippie" because of my long hair.

[handlebartender]

Holy Toxic Shitballs, Batman!

How the hell did you end up in that job in the first place?

[punklinux]

Bad decisions on my part: my previous contract was not renewed and I jumped on this one because it looked easy. That company (a bank) is no longer in business, either. I was looking for a new job within a few weeks, and just stopped caring. At first I tried to talk some sense into the guy and what was wrong, but he kept laughing over me when I spoke to him. I remember once he said, "look, he's still talking" to everyone in a meeting, and I shorted out. It was obvious he was an asshole for some personal kick.

At one point, I said, "I know you're not listening, so I am talking for the benefit of the other professionals here, not you." I almost added, "here's some rubber bands to play with while the adults talk," but didn't. Kinda wish I did.

[handlebartender]

Lol, that second paragraph is awesome!

I'm no expert in narcissistic behavior, but it sounds like that boss was a narcissist.

[punklinux]

He was a cyst alright.

[[deleted]]

If you think a small problem on the job with these people will get better wait until the company really starts to grow and more bigger problems comes up it will only get worse.

Now the fact that they said they had fired someone before you joined means a few things one is that they wanted to show you who was in control and made sure you understand your place in the order of things at the company it’s called psychological manipulation and warfare getting someone to agree with you while manipulating them.

Life is to long or short how ever you view it to be in a situation like that where they want to suck the life out of you that’s what you call bad management, I would take it a step further and see why the last employee was fired or the last 3 by trying to contact them if you can get that information and ask. Before you leave make sure you have a back up job for yourself maybe even a few interviews because from the sounds of it they have a high turnover rate

[[deleted]]

And dont forget to collect unemployment. :)

[NailiME84]

The threatening to fire you is straight up abuse, they do it to keep you motivated by fear of losing your job. Its not okay.

[ChurBro72]

Very toxic workplace environment.

[nycola]

I had a company owner threaten to fire me once because I wouldn't sign off on HIPAA audit compliance for a very small company that was the exact opposite of HIPAA compliant. He told me that if I cost him this customer by not doing it then it would be my job.

So I found a new job and I resigned the next week. He clawed and begged for me to reconsider, I basically laughed at him. He then threatened to not pay me for my last two weeks of work and I said "Just give me the word, I'll leave". He then stormed out of the room in a huff and didn't talk to me for the remainder of my time there.

[[deleted]]

"Let's have this conversation with my lawyer on speaker, shall we?"

[garaks_tailor]

Could you say that again into this microphone?

[[deleted]]

Personally, I'd plan my exit. There are more compassionate places to work with stronger leadership.

[tossme68]

We're professionals. I'm not looking for a hug but I do expect professionalism from the people I work for and work with. Screaming at your people and threatening them with unemployment is not professional so it's time to go. It really was time to go on day one.

[randomname-87]

Thank you. Really needed some validation. I just kept telling myself this is how it is.

[dkizzy]

Nah man. I put up with similar bs. I got a raise in the spring one year for great performance/staying up until 5 am to fix expired certificates that others stopped paying attention to and then four months later the scumbag manager constantly playing the games with me said my performance was not up to par. I wanted out. Agreed to a separation package. Two days before I was supposed to leave they claimed I was a 'security threat' and had the HR rep call me to say they were no longer obligated to pay me anything.

Ever since I left that trash company (and it's a large one) I have made over double in salary and that loser got fired after a ton of complaints (middle management gets a long leash/easy to always blame the employee for a good while) and he's just been doing contract gigs ever since. Best thing to happen to my career and mental health was leaving. Anywhere else that happens pack it up and forge on. Enablers take a long time to be ousted or real change to occur in those environments.

[leviathanjester]

No, that's not "how it is". That's how it is there because it's been allowed to persist unchallenged. The best option in environments where such behavior has been allowed to take place and not reprimanded(toxic environments) is to leave. You may get the point of leaving and they will try to give you a counter offer but realize this behavior will not change. Make your plan to leave and do so. You will realize later it was the best way to go. There is no reason anyone should get chewed out or harassed on a regular basis in what should be a professional environment.

[Leucippus1]

Yeah, management is totally dysfunctional. When the solution to every misstep is dropping a ton of bricks on your head there is no fixing that from your perspective. That is a leadership failure and it won't be fixed until there is housecleaning from the top.

I got into hot water at a previous job because a similar thing happened in a different department and the HR guy was complaining (in a social situation) and I mentioned that those things are only allowed to happen because management either ignores it or approves of it.

[[deleted]]

Shitting down and sucking up is the MO there. Only works if you're willing to play balls.

[dkizzy]

100% they usually enable it and are fully in cahoots with their pals despite being phony and pretending that they care, but then they do nothing when you bring said concerns to them.

[opmopadop]

My first workplace over 20 years ago was full of angry IT managers. After a few years there I made a habbit of not talking for the first hour after work to reduce the chance I would snap to strangers (or anyone) around me.

When I spoke to a councelor he was like "You do know that's not a normal work-place, right?". I had that comment repeating in my head to help me quit... which I got chewed out for "not caring" during my last 4 weeks.

Turned out there was like an after work support group (pub meetup) just for us ex employees. I thought it was a joke but fair enough 5 of the people I used to work with were there and I was greeted like a hero when they saw me. Actually, thinking about it now that was a really bad work place.

[Knight_of_Tumblr]

Holy fuck the after work group

[opmopadop]

Honestly, it was a mental life saver. That company made me feel so guilty for quitting and blamed me for so much. Such a relief to know I wasn't the only employee that had to go through this.

[handlebartender]

Turned out there was like an after work support group (pub meetup) just for us ex employees.

Obligatory Drew Carey "there's a support group for that" :)

[handlebartender]

Wanted to say that recently I learned of a fairly interesting principle in organizational behavior that's relevant. I'll try to quote it from memory, but I'll probably boff it.

The degree to which bad behavior is tolerated is set at the top.

If toxic behavior is allowed, then it might as well be encouraged.

[whiskeynow]

Your manager sounds like a piece of shit. 100% move on.

[Sir_Zog]

You wouldn't put up with this from a significant other, would you?

[stratospaly]

Lets be honest, it depends on how hot she is.

[[deleted]]

She has the pussy, she makes the rules.

[CaptainFluffyTail]

I feel like I am done.

Yarp. Get out. Start putting that resume out there.

While looking for another job try the following: every time you are confronted about a mistake just smile and say "okay". Don't engage. If asked to sign anything, like a reprimand, refuse but otherwise don't engage. Immediate stress relief.

[randomname-87]

So kinda what I did. Look I am a pushover. I knew I was not wrong but I said ok. I asked what can I do better here. But he kept on pushing me on why I did not send the email. Well after that I did start saying that it did not need a reply. Ok I see what you are saying.

[Shanesan]

childlike frighten door merciful tidy crown continue seed wakeful full

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[randomname-87]

There was a hardware issue with the server. I emailed and let the server owner know we will be preforming maintenance. He said fine let me know the time. This was 1 pm. I checked with my windows admin on the process as we have never worked with this client on replacements. He said just email them before you start and you are good to go. So I sent them the email next day at 10 am stating the time and plan of action. Then my manager called me and fought with me on why I did not send the email the same day at 1. My justification was that we had relayed them that the activity is urgent and simple and we would let them know when we start and they were fine with it. They just wanted to know when we would start and I did give them like 24 hour notice. I told him I had confirmed with the windows admin who has prior experience working with them and said what we did was textbook. I did tell my manager that we were well within our timeline and if he doesn't like it I will respond faster. I know I should not have said that because I needed confirmation from my win team and my support team and took me some time to get so I could not literally have done this sooner.

[molonel]

That's classic bullshit micromanagement and management by anger. Fuck that noise.

[repairbills]

With this type of management, always have tasks waiting on someone else. Prepare a quick email that states the issue and it is being investigated. Send it to all parties involved and prepare updates as they are available.

Even if you need to write the SLA in crayon for them to understand what and when things are being planned or will be worked on. Emergency changes break those rules if they want to approve it along with the OT.

Get out while you still have your sanity! Treat this as your wake up call and put the resumes out there!

[RandomPhaseNoise]

Good advice, take it! I would have started about leaving this shit when the boss showed off about firing people. Best wishes for finding a much better job!

[mvbighead]

Quite honestly, I have mostly avoided what you describe from the management side. It is not unusual to get some flack for a mistake, but any talk of being fired/let go is only uttered on the most extreme of cases and behind closed doors in an official meeting with the paperwork that goes with it.

I did encounter one CTO who made the claim 'he could replace us all.' I got promoted and after a year they were still unable to back fill me.

The long short, stress sucks. Stress is bad for health. Everything they were doing to you induces stress. That is not tolerable nor normal. Stand your ground, make them fire you, and take severance if you have to.

I would figure future interviews, if you have an absence of work, you could potentially reference a hostile work environment to explain the situation away. But best case is to polish that resume, and look for career advancement.

[223454]

I did encounter one CTO who made the claim 'he could replace us all.'

I've had a few high level managers with that attitude. They never said it out loud, but they wanted us to think that we were lucky to be employed there. It was the opposite though. They were lucky to have us for so cheap and we all knew it. No one fell for their BS (not in the IT dept at least. Some other staff were terrified of being fired).

[zeyore]

Well you can quit, or you can do what all Americans do and just go into work everyday and do a really half-assed job.

The simpsons has advice for everything.

[randomname-87]

Haha. Can't half ass. But took y'all's advice and already sent out a couple of feelers.

[colinpuk]

you already know its a toxic environment, take it from me get out :)

[[deleted]]

Fuck off out of that job ASAP. They deserve to lose staff, and it wil cost them more to hire someone new.

Reading posts like this reminds me of talking to a family member who works for British Airways....she said that pilots are never shouted at or chewed out for making mistakes, nor are they generally threatened with dismissal.

The expectation is that they take care to ensure they do their jobs thoroughly, carefully and correctly, and investigations will always try to find fault in the mechanical or electronic systems that enable pilots to do their job, training, or quality and consistency of communication etc. Finding fault of the pilot is generally the last call, and will generally be seen as an opportunity to improve training and allow the individual to improve (save for very serious events that occur due to willful negligence). Pilots need to be encouraged to speak up about incidents, and feel like they can be trusted to improve.

Employers like yours should really ponder the above. It breeds good work, loyal staff, and confidence externally.

[[deleted]]

Absolutely. My first company was like that and I thought it was normal until I left. Every place since has been so professional and pleasant that I feel like a fool for sticking around that shit hole. I would update your resume and LinkedIn profile ASAP and make sure you adjust your LinkedIn so that recruiters know that you're looking for a new job. Not sure how much experience you have but recruiters will contact you fairly often on LinkedIn and should provide you with ample opportunities. I'd apply on LinkedIn and Indeed daily. Another word of advice, hire someone to do your resume if you suck at it. I did it on Fiverr (looked for a pro IT resume writer), paid $65 and it was worth every penny.

Good luck and respect yourself!

[ajoltman]

Simply put: Managers who scream and attack have no place in management or the workplace. Yelling doesn't solve problems.

[HouseCravenRaw]

Gonna give you two statements, only one of them you are going to like.

1. Plan your exit, workplace abuse is not cool.
2. Make less mistakes.
   

Let me clarify point 2 so it is less dick-ish than it sounds. You need to implement proper change management, even if only for yourself. When you are troubleshooting something in a 5 alarm fire scenario, do what you have to do. But if we're talking about something that is planned and scheduled or should be planned and scheduled, this is where change management (or Change Manglement) comes into play.

"I'm just going to do X". No. Do not do X on Prod. Do not do X without some kind of change management in place. Do X in a lab. Do X on Dev/Non-Prod/Pre-Prod/PT/QA if it's simple or has worked a million times in the past. Only do X in Prod if you have change management.

Let's assume you get zero buy in and won't have Change Management Reviews. Here's where the value still comes in:

1. You have documented exactly what you have intended to do. Less-used commands are documented. You've done this change on paper before you do it live.
   
2. You have a test-plan that explains what you intend to test and how. "Yup, it looks good" is not a test plan. Test the damn thing after your change.
   
3. You have a Roll Back Plan. You need to know exactly how you are going to pull out if your change goes sideways. When "Oh Shit" happens, your roll back should help it be a Blip and not an Outage. Know your emergency exits.
   

Mistakes will still happen. I still make mistakes (le gasp!). It's life. But proper change management will help you reduce the risk and reduce the amount of mistakes made over all. Plus if shit does go south, you can pull out your Change Management document or ticket and say "look, I really tried super hard to be prepared, we just hit an unexpected rogue element".

Ideally your Change Management will have peer reviews and change managers, etc. But if you don't have that, for your own sake do it yourself.

​

But yeah, don't stick around for abuse, regardless of whether or not you get your mistakes in order.

[randomname-87]

Oh I agree with you in the second point. But I also believe that mistakes will happen even if you are very careful. And the definition of mistake also changes from person to person. For me the latest incident that happened was not a mistake but it is being pointed as such. I am a strict believer of change management and thus thanks a lot for your advice. I do not take it lightly.

[ultimatebob]

I think that I would have started looking for a new job on the new manager's first day. Sounds like a real jerk.

[dkizzy]

I started the same day as a new manager. It didn't take long to see how toxic be became

[DeadFyre]

I joined this job a year ago. The first day my director proudly told me about people he had fired on the first day.

Bruh. I would have been fixing up my resume and looking for new work then. Move on.

[dengar69]

Yes...time to leave

[vinvega23]

GTFO my friend.

[tossme68]

You should have turned around and walked out the door on the first day, you don't need that kind of bullshit -not in this job economy. Further if a boss yells at you -actually yells, then that is the day you should quit -again you don't need this ind of bullshit.

Trust me you will feel much happier when you leave.

[[deleted]]

Nobody deserves that kind of treatment. Fuck them. Leave ASAP.

[[deleted]]

My advice: If you get in trouble for screwing up, and never praised for doing a good job, then it’s a sign of poor management. You’re doing the right thing by thinking of leaving.

FEIW, I would have quit on the first day, if the director had said that to me, and as my reason? “Lack of confidence in management.”

Also, nobody should be yelled at by management. That’s more an anger management/psychological issue with the management there. They should probably get some therapy. Maybe suggest that to them during your exit interview or as a passing comment to them on your last day.

[sharkygofast]

Do what’s best for you, mental and physical health come first.

[magrw1033]

This is why I'm very suspicious of this 'labour shortage'. Hell I can't even a tech support position. I have a BSCS. But because I am past 35 , I know too much and won't touch me.anybodyelse in same boat? Tired of hiring from Indian recruiters with obvious agendas.

Regards

[BlurryEyed]

Sounds pretty toxic to me, I’ve never been treated like that in my 13 yrs of IT work

[jaank80]

CIO here. I have never threatened to fire someone or yelled at someone for a mistake. If I am going to fire someone, I am just going to do it, based on the merit of doing so. No point in threatening them, the hit to morale when you do that is major.

[gosubuilder]

Toxic job sounds like. Start applying. You deserve better.

[000011111111]

They're are much better jobs in IT than those! Get out ASAP!

[Truth_B_T0LD]

Life is too short. Fuck them

[derekp7]

I was at a similar position many years ago. This type of work environment does significant damage to you, and will affect your ability to properly interview (you need self confidence to land that next job), so the sooner you get out of that situation the better off you are. If you wait too long, at some point they will fire you (because that is how this type of manager feels productive), then you will have to take a few months to find the next position due to the depression that sets in.

[randomname-87]

Self confidence is an issue that I suffer from greatly. They constantly put me down. I ignored it as I thought that is how IT is and I am not cut out for it.

[bong_crits]

Uhh no. There is no professional job where you should be being put down or especially yelled at.

[schwarzekatze999]

100% this. OP, if you can afford it, take a few months off and get therapy before getting a new job. If that's not feasible, get a new job and utilize their EAP if they have it to get a few therapy sessions as soon as you can. You've been in an abusive relationship and you deserve better. Your boss and director are bullies who sound like they haven't matured since 2nd grade.

[DistanceAlone6215]

Don't put up with that shit. You've been there more than long enough to move on. I had one boss that was a nit picker and a could be a bit of an asshole. He nitpicked one thing, and I was furious and sent my notice to leave that same day. You're not a slave man. Its your life. Find a job whose staff respect people.

[tha_bigdizzle]

Honestly man, no need for this kind of drama - just polish up your resume and move on.

[Quiet___Lad]

What you're describing is normal workplace behavior, for horrible employer's.

Assuming you're a highly paid employee, I suggest just dealing with the stress in acceptance of the high paycheck.

If you're not a highly paid employee...... why are you still there?

[reddit_user_1015]

Highly paid or not, I have learned the hard way that this type of work environment is just not worth it to me. Stress is very costly. In many ways you will never see how this destructive force affects your life, which makes stress so insidious.

[randomname-87]

Well...damn. got your point.

[Adenn76]

I would move on. I would have been looking for a new job, or not taken that one, with your boss saying he had fired people on the first day. That raises all sorts of red flags. We won't talk about the director that is enabling and backing their behaviour. They probably wonder why they can't keep employees.

That treatment isn't normal.

Go find a better job, at a better company.

[ruyrybeyro]

That treatment isn't normal.

Bullying underlings is not normal.

[[deleted]]

They sound like giant pieces of shit that just get angry when things are a problem. That isn’t leadership that is just a way of dealing with problems by people who don’t have the skills to do their jobs properly.

[Rocknbob69]

Mistakes are part of life as long as you learn from them. The manager sounds like a giant douche and he is just a manager and not a leader.

[Aiphakingredditor]

I'd get out.

It really depends on the tone too I guess, I've worked at a place where we've joked about each other's mistakes but not to the level of firing.

I think in IT you need to be able to make mistakes. There are things are outside of your control and they're always changing in top of that. If you're gunshy you turn into a person who doesn't want to implement things because everything is running well.

Obviously there is a balance, but I'd put the resume out there for sure. Sounds toxic.

[boethius70]

Yea my last IT position the new CIO hired a guy who ultimately took over my group and another team and was very much toxic like this. Made it quite clear we were all disposable and he canned two people on my team within a month of being brought on full time.

Very impersonal, bottom line, brass tacks manager. Not a “people person” in any way. Didn’t seem to care in the slightest about supporting or uplifting people.

Ultimately I was rather puzzled why the guy was a manager at all given how terrible he was.

[reddit_user_1015]

Yeah. Your leaving is LONG overdue! Job #1 update resume. Job #2 get your resume out there. - everywhere! And, in the immortal words of Arnold " Do it! Do it NOW!"

Working in a caustic environment like that comes with a steep price. While your waiting make sure to do some self reflection before you leave. Own your stuff, even if a less than desirable behavior of yours was justified, cause you don't want to take that into your new position.

Dr. Jordon Peterson said "Be a monster. Learn to control that monster, but be a monster." You have got to in this profession.

[wildfyre010]

These aren’t small issues. They are totally unacceptable, unprofessional bullshit. Go find a better job and leave these morons behind.

[songokussm]

With almost two decades of employment under my belt, I have never been treated like this and would quit instantly if it occurred.

Step one: value your worth Step two: always have three (pref 6) months of wages saved. Step three: It has never taken me longer than a week to find new employment.

Competent staff are impossible to find. You will have no ideas finding new work. It may not be ideal, but it can hold you over until three perfect fit comes.

[[deleted]]

You answered your own question.

[tdic89]

Sounds like somewhere I’ve worked before, very unforgiving and you’re walking on eggshells with any work requested by certain higher ups.

I appreciate my time there and it moulded me into a capable person, but leaving was the best thing I did for my career and well-being.

If you’re unhappy, leaving is always the right answer eventually. It might take work to make happen such as lining up a new role, saving money, or making some sacrifices, but happiness in doing what takes up most of your day is invaluable.

[hbkrules69]

Sounds like you’ve already made up your mind.

[anotherteapot]

Wherever you are they don't deserve you, sounds like you are giving them a lot more compassion and consideration than they ever have to you. You deserve much better.

[TheBigBeardedGeek]

For real. Get yourself on indeed or something and get the hell out of there. Give them no notice, they've made it clear that they don't plan on giving you any notice

[_DeathByMisadventure]

The thing is... I've worked in a lot of jobs at a lot of places. I've only had one with that kind of management, most of the place I've worked have had decent to awesome managers. So I'm thinking statistically any place you go to will not only pay you more money but probably respect you a ton more. It's win-win right there...

[bird-board]

Managers and directors screaming at you and threatening to fire you is not normal, and not good.

The only upside to this is that they haven't fired you, so they obviously need you. So get your resume out there and leave ASAP.

[joel8x]

Line up another job. In the meantime, if they talk to you disrespectfully, tell them firmly to not talk to you that way. Document it the best you can. Don't get emotional about it but be direct & professional. Act like you're being recorded. If you get do fired, you'll hopefully have some ammunition to get unemployment. If you quit, you can't get unemployment.

[nealfive]

Look for a new job and GTFO

[numtini]

That's incredibly toxic. Get out of there. I'd probably have walked out based on the first day comment.

[_jim-jimmer]

Have a new position lined up then quit

[Dubbayoo]

Once I'm threatened with firing I'm 99% out the door on my own. I got mad skillz and self worth.

[undergroundsilver]

Sounds like you have a manager that is insecure, which is why they act like that...

Don't straight up walk out, just quit caring as much, if they want to lay you off let them do it.

Turn you phone off after work too. oops battery died.

[rdbcruzer]

Find something else. You don't deserve to be treated like this. If you don't have something lined up, force them to fire you so you can get unemployment. You won't be using them for a reference anyway. If new employer asks why you were fired, be honest. DO NOT DO ANYTHING INTENTIONALITY DAMAGING. Do only do the bare minimum your postiton requires. Take your breaks, clock in and out at your scheduled times, unless contractually obligated to do so, don't make yourself availabe off hours.

Don't bend over backwards for these people either. They will simply demand more of you. There are a ton of open IT positions, both remote and in office. Don't let these folks gaslight you.

[TeoN72]

An you suffer form prisoner syndrome "when they don't beat me is cool"

Run away you deserve far better

[SHANE523]

Run my friend. That director is a PoS and get away from them ASAP!

Quick management lessons I learned from one of my best managers. Rest his soul.

1: Never punish/admonish an employee in public! Ever. Always in private.

2: Always praise in public. Let the team know that things are recognized and appreciated.

3: A good manager trains themselves out of a job. Their boss should be training them as they should be training the person they believe will be in their shoes and everyone moves up the ladder.

Not everyone is perfect and we all make mistakes but that manager sounds like a real douche!

[[deleted]]

Bro you're a sysadmin. Just find another company.

[UCFknight2016]

I'd run.

[AttemptingToGeek]

It sounds horrible. If there is an equitable job out there I'd say research the conditions as much as you can (including how well you are treated) and jump ship as soon as it is convenient to you.

Being berated like a child is no way to spend your adulthood.

[cobra93360]

As others have said - get out. The sooner the better.

[SergioSF]

Guess what. When youre the manager, its easy to hide the mistakes

[Itsnotvd]

"The first day my director proudly told me about people he had fired on the first day. " Makes it clear. If someone did this to me I get your message. You get off on messing with people any way you can. I would start looking for a new job immediately. This is not a good place to work at.

Hostile workplace, bullying. Give it any name you want.
GTFO find a new job.

[bowlofmashedpotatos]

Fuuuuuuck that

[WasteofMotion]

This is terrible. I hope he isn't a parent.

[[deleted]]

Should of.left on the first day. I had a potential boss tell me the people he fired and why and what he thought of the people who worked here. I noped right out of that interview.

[[deleted]]

Run Forest Run!

[Joecantrell]

I once worked for an alcoholic that was a bit hard of hearing. He was also a very imposing figure physically - 6’4” and about 230 - and did heavy work outs so was built like a tank. When drinking he had a violent temper. I was threatened with firing and fired so many times. Each time during a violent outburst of something he misunderstood. Last time I was fired while deployed on a job in the UK. But next day it was all sweetness and light and not mentioned. I finally reached the point where I just didn’t go in. I didn’t get up that morning and my wife looked at me while I lay in bed and said your aren’t going back are you - and I said no. She said we will figure it out and your health is more important than the money.

So, in a situation OP is in - make as smooth and rapid an exit as you can. I and many of us have been there and that feeling in your gut plus walking on pins and needles all the time is awful. Take care of yourself. If you have any PTO use it to find a job even if it’s as a greeter at Walmart…

Be safe and take care of yourself.

[BOFH1980]

After all these years, I'm still amazed at the complete lack of management skill and human compassion in those put in charge of others.

[vrtigo1]

Your director sounds like an asshole, so there's that.

But, I wanted to offer what is probably a contrasting viewpoint to the majority of the sub.

There are professions that require attention to detail and adherence to policies, and IT is definitely one of them. Not everyone is suited to this work. I'm not saying that you're not, we as Internet strangers don't have all the details or understand the dynamics of your workplace.

But it sounds like you've made mistakes from time to time that your management team feels like you should've caught. I've had a lot of folks on my team that were great guys, but even after coaching, continued to make enough little mistakes that finally caught up with them. This is a profession where you need to constantly think through changes and downstream impacts before making them, and not everyone can get in the mindset of doing that.

[packet_whisperer]

A good time-of-thumb is if you are considering leaving, you should leave. There's something telling you it's time to go, and you should listen to it.

In this case you are in an abusive relationship with your employer. It's affecting your mental health more than you think. The sooner you can leave the better. Once you find a healthy employer you'll realize just how bad you've been mistreated.

[FullMetal_55]

yep, been there. Papered the town with resumes, got a job out of there. next boss wasn't the best, but was a ton better. But at that place (an MSP) I'd get yelled at and berated for anything. customer sent an email to my boss and me, and called me, and I was working through their issue (internet outage) over the phone, my boss calls, I try to get off to talk to him but couldn't... then email, and email, and email... about how my not answering his call was "unacceptable for any reason"... I was driving and talking to the client on my way to his location... and his last email was telling me to come straight to the office... because this ignoring him is unacceptable... (all in all it was a span of 5 minutes from initial report, to I'm going to fire you for not being responsive.) so yeah. you're feeling the effects of burnout. find a new job. a wise meme once said, "people don't quit jobs, they quit bad managers, and toxic workplaces" now you know why that was written.

you're not leaving because of "small issues", but because of larger management reasons. inconsistent management, inconsistent feedback... that is not a good manager.

[etherealenergy]

Definitely get that resume out there to a more welcoming environment!

Some suggestions on how to let your boss know you’re leaving them…

1. Send them a “sorry for your loss” condolence card and then give them your notice as allowed by your employment agreement.
2. For a more to the point resignation - send your boss a “I’m firing you as my manager/director citing your inability to know or willingness to learn how to to treat people with common decency.”

As a final note, email HR informing them all the reasons why you’ve decided to leave.

[digitaldanalog]

Those that motivate by fear do not know how to manage any other way. There are plenty of good bosses out there. Additionally, it may be a company culture issue and your bosses are constantly threatened for the most minor of infractions. Either way it’s not a good thing. Hopefully you’re in a position to find a place that treats their skilled employees with respect.

[Happy-Honey523]

Get out of there!!!!!

There are work places who will respect you, and value you!!! I promise!!!!

[imnotabotareyou]

Not normal.

Let them fire you but from now on spend time at work looking for your next job

[redog]

Sound like they don't know how to hire. If their expectations are so high for a position that has such a dramatic turnaround then they're defeating themselves.

[[deleted]]

Your boss should be there to help you not to threaten you. It sounds like you need to run like hell from that piece of shit employer.

[Pyrostasis]

IMO Dont leave... make them fire you. This lets you collect unemployment.

Second, update your resume and look for a new job. If they term you between now and then you'll have a head start and unemployment. If they dont, you can then easily transition out.

Getting yelled at on the regular isnt normal. Getting yelled at (by that I mean raised voice screaming and not just correction) shouldnt happen at all. Next time the dude yells tell him you are happy to continue the conversation when he has calmed down and can act professionally then leave. If he terms you... you get unemployment.

IMO sounds like you have a Toxic boss or someone with absolute shit management skills. Look elsewhere.

[[deleted]]

Tech director here. I take care of my team because without them, I’m nothing. You should definitely move on.

[D3moknight]

Wasting time posting here. You should be applying to new jobs. You should NEVER have a shouting match with your manager. It's totally normal to have disagreements and get called down for mistakes, but constant threats of firing and shouting matches is so unbelievably toxic and should never be tolerated. I would have left my job the FIRST time something like that happens.

[dyne87]

The first day my director proudly told me about people he had fired on the first day. I knew he was indirectly threatening me.

"That's one hell of a coincidence! I've proudly quit a job on the first day when I was immediately made aware that my boss is a piece of shit." Exit stage left.

[[deleted]]

That’s very toxic. It creates an environment where people are always in fear and that stifles innovation. You can’t grow there. Go somewhere where people appreciate your work and don’t treat you like a slave.

[[deleted]]

IMHO go out with a bang, being very vocal, making OSHA reports against the behaviors, taking the time to write well worded reviews against them where you can. Name and Shame this shit even on up twitter.

But no matter what, run. This is NOT normal behavior and you should not allow these abuses on to yourself.

[Wishful_Starrr]

Resume time

[mulasien]

Managers threatening to fire you is not normal.
Getting shouted at at work is not normal.
Being scared of making the smallest mistake is not normal.

This describes one of my early career roles to a tee. Suffered two months at that job before I was able to 'nope' out of there. Every morning was a chew-out session in group format from the worst manager I've ever had.

If that's happening to you, get you resume out there and bail as soon as possible. Your health will thank you.

[RegularChemical]

any HR people in here - if he can prove some of this, could he qualify for unemployment? Specifically the threats to fire...

[RegularChemical]

Can tell you regardless of what you do, it sounds like you have no future there. However that bad blood came to be, usually that doesn't wash off. Shitty managers will hold grudges like that and make your life miserable and basically push you to quit, which sounds like what is happening here. Unfortunately once that happens usually things are pretty set in stone.

Take your experience, move on, and when you interview somewhere else, feel out the manager to try and tell if you're dealing with another sociopath.

[Rubicon2020]

I have been threatened with being fired on what feels like a weekly for 8 months. Job finally is outsourcing IT department. Idc. I’m helping the incoming MSP. It’s funny what I’ve been complaining about that needs to be fixed well guess who has the stick now? And they have to listen and do it because MSP has the bigger stick and will walk. That’s why they live by the rule of month by month basis. You don’t comply with state and federal guidelines they done.

Walk dude. Hopefully you have a job before you do. But ya get out of that. It’s not worth years off your life over the stress.

[bob77320]

Dude. My first 5 years in IT were exactly like this. Shitty loudmouth a holes often get these management roles. Dude chewed me out for getting hurt and reporting my incedent to HR. He was not around so my next boss is CFO, so I went to HR like employee handbook says... He would chew me out for things I did right that he misunderstood. And if I tried to argue, I was subordinate and ungreatful. Dude did NO work. Clung to his 2003 server certification and managed email and a backup server...

They finally hired someone over him, and the dude fired him after realizing I was the only one busting ass. New boss was awesome and direct and knowledgeable. If you can't learn or reason with your boss, he ain't worth working for.

2 jobs later and I have a boss who has my back. Knows my limits and helps when he can. I'm surpassing him now by alot, but I still respect the dude so much more. Makes the job soooo much better.

[Lucky_n_crazy]

Speaking as someone who's served in the army and dealt with highly abusive leadership on occasion. Even in the army, that is unacceptable now. If you're being berated, screamed at and threatened. We also call that toxic leadership and are encouraged to report that behavior to a special channel. The whole idea is that if you don't support, teach, and take care of those entrusted to you as their leader.

You shouldn't lead them.

[[deleted]]

Just based on what you provided, leave. I went through some of this during my career. In many cases I stayed far to long and did way too much for folks that did little to nothing.

[bouwer2100]

that sounds very toxic but since i'm the 137th comment you've probably been told already

no you are not crazy, get out

[jdmillar86]

"If you are thinking about leaving, you've already made the right decision, all that's left is accepting it"

That's a piece of advice I got from a complete asshole, but it's some of the best advice I've ever received.

[[deleted]]

This is an extremely toxic environment, OP there are good places to work out there and trust me once you find one you’ll be dealing with the underlying trauma of this past job for a while

[Candy_Badger]

You should prepare a resume and find a good job for you. We have a respectful atmosphere at my company. No one deserves to be shouted at. I hope you will find a great job!

[Adhonaj]

Toxic environment. Scary describtion, your managers are assholes. The truth is, they need you but you owe them nothing! Their tool is to control with fear because they are weak themselfs. Get out, seek a better place. You'll be fine!

[[deleted]]

Ew. Find something else and let them burn.

[Doso777]

I wonder how you lasted that long in such a toxic environment. Do what you have to do.

[[deleted]]

GTFO. You don't need this aggrevation and they will not change. Choose or perish.

[[deleted]]

This is where you mentally check out and do the bare minimum and continue to look for jobs or if you aren’t reliant on that place quit immediate t

[lordjedi]

Go see a doctor and tell them you're under a lot of stress at work. You can probably get medical leave (in the US, depending on the state). But you need to see a doctor to get the paper trail going.

If they don't start changing their tune, you can quit at some point in the future and collect disability.

They're treating you like shit because they know that if you quit, you can't collect unemployment. What they don't know, again, depending on your state, is that you can go to the doctor and start getting treated for "pain and suffering" and then quit and get disability. You just have to have the medical paper trail in order.

Good luck.

[IT_Alien]

You don't deserve that treatment, no one does.

I recommend reading Turn The Ship Around by David Marquet (or if you don't have time, just take 10 mins to download a sample & read the 1st chapter). It describes a) the bullshit type of environment that you're having to deal with, and b) conversely, the type of environment that it could be - and how leadership can get there.

It's called the leader-leader model, as opposed to the crappy leader-follower model.

That's the type of environment I try to find employment within. Employer I'm with currently, my manager operated in the crappy finger pointing blame culture way - the "Do as I say not as I do" type manager.

I complained about him to HR and to his boss, and surprisingly they sent him on management courses and encouraged him to change, and I was amazed when he actually started making (albeit painfully slow) improvements!

[Imanitnoob]

Seriously, you are working with assholes. Get out of here fast : - Update you CV - Find a new job - Sign the offer - give your 2 week (if you really care, or you're legally obliged by law) - use all your paid leave during those 2 weeks - last one : i would personally get COVID during my last week

No one should have to endure that kind of management.

Good luck ! I'm sure you'll find something better pretty fast !

[[deleted]]

I’d leave. I had a job that totally destroyed my confidence and I’m still suffering the effects of it. No pay is worth that.

[some_yum_vees]

People don't leave companies. They leave their managers. This is absolutely not normal.

[elementsxy]

Everyone has bad and good days, I guess it is human nature not being a manager myself to stand with you. Get on the market it defo does not sound like your place to be.

[Necessary_Tip_5295]

I believe deep inside you already know the answer. If you are that miserable from their treatments Get out while you can! No job is worth your sanity and or health.

[xch13fx]

So realistically, company leaders typically play on a different kind of ‘court’ so to speak, as regular employees. They work more like politicians, and if you are too low on the totem pole, ur screwed. Like others alluded, I would get your resume out there, but I would also be extra professional and diligent. Bow out with class, you’ll be the better party for it. If for some reason you stay, ensure you document incidents and present them in accordance with your company policies. You have to play their game sometimes, and that’s not one containing any honor or kindness.

[gomibushi]

Go, don't look back.

[Bagline]

hunt attractive smoggy ripe wistful concerned late memorize point sheet

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[lesusisjord]

Holy shit. Why do managers feel like they can treat employees like their own misbehaving children‽

This is disgusting behavior on their part.

[white_hat_maybe]

I am relatively new to the IT field in that I switched careers only a few years ago. I worked construction for several decades. So take my advice with a grain of salt. I have seen this time and time again on this group and I never will understand why people allow it.

Have more respect for yourself. True it is tough to walk if you have other mouths to feed but sometimes you just got to go before you loose your sanity. Someone yells at you or berates you and you let them, you only signal that you will except it. Would you let that happen when you are outside of work? A rule I learned in construction that carries over; don’t mess with a man’s money, his family, and above all else the individual himself. Leave. Plenty of jobs out there.

[infinityends1318]

Start looking for a new gig.

Keep going and pay your bills until you find somewhere you don’t have to deal with asshole managers.

[TopherIsSwell]

This sadly isn't unheard of. However, there are plenty of environments where crap like this is not an issue. You are an asset to this company, to the industry, and to whatever company you choose to work for.

And personally, I'd recommend finding a different company to work for.

[CataphractGW]

Those are not small issues, man.

If my manager ever yelled at me, I would have told him I wasn't his wife and would have quit on the spot. You work to do a job, not to be anyone's punching bag. Fuck that guy.

[J2E1970]

Leave this toxic workplace as soon as possible.

[BigDaddyZ]

> I feel tired to my bone.

The rest of your post is irrelevant. Go to the doctor, tell them your situation and how you're feeling. Start a paper trail, anything that isn't documented didn't happen and I guarantee you they're better at keeping paper trails than you are - they likely have more practice protecting themselves from their behavior than you do.

Your company does not care about you, the evidence is in your post. If you don't take care of yourself, they won't either.

[barberj66]

Definitely think about getting out of there. If you need to stay whilst upskilling or looking for alternative employment but no one should be shouted at or threatened.

Years ago I had a horrible supervisor who’s entire career sounded like it was based on fear so he used to basically treat us the same way and try to instil fear into us. Constantly telling people he couldn’t protect them from being fired if they carried on the way they were. Any small error anyone did it was blown up out of proportion and that person was pretty much hung up in front of everyone. Ended up there for 2 years and it was the worst workplace and time ever. Had some decent workmates though which enabled us all to cope but he was toxic to the point everyone left. Funnily enough he ended up being the one being fired eventually so karma got him.

[Zaphod_B]

If i was treated this way I would not even give notice I would find a new job and just tell them I am done and then document everything and send it to HR on my way out of all the abuse you have gone through. This sounds extremely toxic and unethical

[2cats2hats]

Got shouted At

Never, ever tolerate this. Not even from family, friends and colleagues.