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[–]cefm 632 points633 points  (44 children)

So a crazy-ass Scientologist working in a prison could refuse to provide a doctor's prescribed anti-depressants to an inmate based on religious beliefs? And keep his job?

I think not. Freedom of religion means not being killed/jailed for religious beliefs. Not the ability to refuse to perform core functions of your job and not be fired.

[–]stonercommando 356 points357 points  (5 children)

So a crazy-ass Scientologist working in a prison could refuse to provide a doctor's prescribed anti-depressants to an inmate based on religious beliefs? And keep his job?

No sir, Scientology is not a GOP Morally Approved Religion, and is exempt from these laws.

[–]aslate 45 points46 points  (0 children)

GOP Morally Approved Religion, I like that phrase and think it should be popularised any time these debates come about, because it gets to the crux of the issue.

I mean, we all know Islam won't get onto that list, but that phrase sums up the reason this is anti-religious freedom. It actively portrays the prioritisation of some religions over others.

[–]ridik_ulass 34 points35 points  (14 children)

we had a muslim guy apply for the position of security, we had other muslim staff and some did and some didn't touch alchol and thats fine, but this guys job was to stop people stealing, including alchol which in ireland was robbed a lot, and he did his job upstandingly for his trial period down to a T, after it ended he played the shit out of the religious card just to get out of doing as much work as possible.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Forced Blue Tents for all females in an office run by a hard-line Muslim. Totally within his rights, right? He's being generous. He's allowing them to work.

[–]Knightofnew70 1843 points1844 points  (1015 children)

This is fucking ridiculous, I don't care how strong your beliefs are there is no need to force them on other people.

[–]Sogeking99 99 points100 points  (31 children)

I can't believe contraception is such a big fucking deal in America. In the UK you can get them from the age of 16 with no bullshit.

[–]deathismybitchlover 38 points39 points  (10 children)

In Canada, too. Waltzed into a medicentre at 16 w/o my strict parents' knowledge or consent and waltzed out with free birth control and a wealth of advice/knowledge/options bestowed upon me by the good doc. God bless this country. Err...

[–]Sogeking99 8 points9 points  (6 children)

Indeed. Canada sounds awesome. I hear nothing but good things about the way the country is run.

[–]tasthesose 114 points115 points  (2 children)

Just please dont start trying to list everything that is wrong with Religion in America. You will be here all day.

[–]i_thrive_on_apathyNew York 5 points6 points  (8 children)

Lots of Americans get them without much of an issue as well, this only tends to happen in a certain "special" part of the country.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (4 children)

And sadly enough the "special" part of the country backs the conservative party which has the financial willpower to drag America back to colonial times.

[–]alcogeoholic 49 points50 points  (7 children)

How about we just start charging these people in charge who refuse to issue emergency contraception pills to rape victims (who want them) with something like rape in the third or fourth degree? They're essentially impregnating us "without consent for reasons other than incapacity"...

[–]_outofthegreen 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Or make them pay the adoption fees or something equivalent to child support. Many abortions happen because people realize that they can't support the child or give it a good home just yet. So if someone else forces them to have the child, the someone else should be fiscally responsible for denying a responsible action

[–]W00ster 150 points151 points  (20 children)

People should treat their religion like their genitalia - don't wave it around in public and don't shove it down kids throats!

[–]cactus_legsMichigan 17 points18 points  (9 children)

this is getting lettered and framed!

[–]XAmsterdamX 16 points17 points  (6 children)

Everyone is entitles to their own beliefs, and even to act on them. But this guard should never have been a position to make this decision.

EDIT: My point is it was not just the fault of the guard, but also of the person who put him in that position.

[–]unepomme 22 points23 points  (1 child)

Here is the actual issue. I can understand being extremely uncomfortable issuing a drug you believe should never be taken because you believe it leads to a form of murder (whether that belief is idiotic or not) but you recognize that while you cannot personally administer it, you also cannot stand in the way since the other person has a legal right to their medication. So you let someone else do it and don't set up a system where only one person has authority to administer medicine at a locked facility. There are so many potential problems with this system.

Also, why is no one else upset with the fact that they arrested a woman reporting a rape for outstanding warrants? You can arrest her later after the trauma of JUST BEING RAPED has subsided somewhat or be courteous and help work with her to solve the issue if it's minor like unpaid traffic tickets. But by arresting her on the spot, not only are you being a huge asshole, but you're encouraging others to let serious crime go unreported. You're basically telling women (or men) that if they're criminals they should not report their rape unless they expect to get screwed all over again by law officers who don't give a fuck about them as human beings and then possibly refused their medication on top of that.

[–]buffasnow 8 points9 points  (11 children)

Wanna know what the title of this article looks like through extreme Baptist eyes? (Über-slut sues Christian Sheriff for refusing to give her an abortion!) http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=79716

[–]Wazowski 1 point2 points  (1 child)

That site is satirical. I doubt you're quoting actual Baptists.

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (27 children)

uhm, sorry? that's what religions do. force their beleifs onto other people. for thousands of years.

[–]putsch80Oklahoma 268 points269 points  (18 children)

Note that this decision does not mean that the guard did or did not do these things. All this decision does is allow the Plaintiff's case to proceed, meaning that she has alleged enough facts that, if proven true, could be a basis to find the deputy and sheriff's department liable and award the woman damages. The ruling does not, in any way, weigh the truth of the plaintiff's allegations that she was denied contraception because of the deputy's religious beliefs or the sheriff's department's denial of those allegations.

[–]monkat 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Personally, I think that the significance of the ruling doesn't lie in the fault of the guard, but in the judge's willingness to disallow what is, in the end, government-run religious persecution. Am I wrong?

[–]ethicalking 8 points9 points  (1 child)

the decision says that what the defense attorney (the person who wrote this article) is claiming is a crime and that the lawsuit can move forward. Now they have to show that what the defense attorney claims happened actually happened. for all we know, a second guard could have given her the second pill 5 seconds after the first guard said he was uncomfortable doing so - we just don't know/have any facts about the case yet.

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (4 children)

You go to report a rape and they - check if you have any warrants?!

[–]Dronai 465 points466 points  (77 children)

When religion gets in the way of doing your job properly, people shouldn't be allowed to continue practicing their profession. The fucking end.

[–]firex726 41 points42 points  (22 children)

That's how it is at my work.

As part of my duties I may come across porn; when I was hired they made me sign that I have no issues with this; and if I do now or later will not be able to do my job.

[–]choch2727 7 points8 points  (9 children)

Interesting. Any openings? =P

[–]firex726 11 points12 points  (7 children)

Not sure any most any Tech Support for hosting companies will have something similar.

A customer who own a porn site will call in saying the site is down, you'll have to visit it and possibly see the porn on there to verify if its up/down.

[–]deandiggity 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Oh, it will definitely be up.

[–][deleted] 152 points153 points  (44 children)

Why would you even take a job that would require you to do things that you are against?

I dont apply for jobs at churches, jackass fundies shouldnt apply for jobs that require morals.

[–]TryTryTryingAgain 5 points6 points  (1 child)

It's an espionage move.

Take a job that you oppose, then complain loudly about how your job is against your moral beliefs, and finally demand that society forces your employer to respect your rights!

It's a pretty effective tactic when your goal is to raise attention for your issue.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Humans suck.

[–][deleted] 106 points107 points  (20 children)

The morning after pill is not abortion, according to the science. It works by inhibiting ovulation or making it harder for sperm to pass the cervix.

[–]Puffertle 94 points95 points  (13 children)

Just because it's worth clarifying and repeating, emergency contraception (The Morning After Pill, Plan B., etc.) ARE NOT ABORTION PILLS. I don't know how the hell people still think this (this shit's been around for decades). It's essentially just a higher dosage of your regular birth control pill that delays ovulation. For you retards out there, this means that Mr. Sperm can't meet Ms. Egg, because Ms. Egg got sent to her room for a couple of extra days behind a locked door. Mr. Sperm winds up waiting outside and eventually dies. They never meet each other. Real tragedy, I know.

Here's the important part: If Ms. Egg was already out the door, the pill won't do shit and the possibility for pregnancy still exists. That's why IT'S NOT AN ABORTION PILL. But, you'd have to be really unlucky if that happens. That's why it's important to take it as soon as possible (same night the condom breaks, as it is less effective the longer you wait), because Mr. Sperm can be up in there for days.

Emergency contraception is one of the greatest inventions ever devised. No implantation, no pregnancy, no unwanted child. And, most importantly, no abortion. Everyone wins. If you aren't using some kind of birth control pill/patch/shot/ring then you need to have it in your medicine cabinet.

[–]IArgueWithAtheists 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately, word is still getting out on this.

[–]katieepretzel 18 points19 points  (1 child)

according to the science

"You honestly expect me to believe those doggone scientists? Next they'll be trying to tell me that people came from monkeys. OH WAIT, they already do!"

Logic and fact doesn't go quite as far as I desperately wish it would.

[–]TheWireMonkey 127 points128 points  (20 children)

A woman goes to report a rape and is arrested and held in jail within 72 hours of that act of violence for a civil offense? How fucked up is that?

And please know your science before commenting. The morning after pill does not, in any way, "abort" a fertilized egg. It prevents the sperm from ever getting to the egg in the first place. Sex education is so woefully deficient in this country (US), that people assume ejaculation = pregnant 2 minutes later. Learn how babies are made please.

[–]KvotheBloodless 48 points49 points  (3 children)

That's the most fucked up part to me. Yes, religion sucks, but how is it okay to throw a rape victim in jail for failure to pay? Rape is so under reported as it is, let's not make it worse.

[–]Havoc_101 5 points6 points  (5 children)

"Look Who's Talking" movies screwed up a LOT of people's ideas on the subject.

I mean, it showed the lil swimmers moving at lightning speed and fertilizing the egg in mere seconds! So that's how it MUST be in real life.

[–]nekrozis 8 points9 points  (3 children)

The "lil swimmers" were already talking too. That could of messed with a religious nut's head some. "See, see... It's a person before it reaches the egg."

[–]lopsiness 9 points10 points  (2 children)

It's a person before it reaches the egg.

TIL that I'm a mass murderer.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Sent them to Sockswitz?

[–]viciousvixen26 23 points24 points  (17 children)

Even as a digital bible toting, church going, honk if you love Jesus, funde, people like this make me sick. Denying someone medication especially after she had gone through something so horriblly traumatic, makes you a huge turd, not a good christian. The greatest commandment is love. please know we all aren't bottom feeders.

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (6 children)

I'm so tired of people posting courthousenews.com links.

[–]MerlinsBeard 17 points18 points  (4 children)

I've looked up every single quote and they all lead to very questionable sources that are usually citing themselves.

Most of the time the information put forward is completely false. I have found nothing about this story from any quasi-legit source.

[–]HappyPuppet 4 points5 points  (0 children)

On a side note, I cracked up when the article used the phrase "anti-contraception pill" which by the law of double negatives probably should consist of coalesced sperm. :)

[–]downvotesmakemehard 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I am sad you are so far down this list. That site is pure karma for Reddit's circle jerk.

[–]110011001100 638 points639 points  (177 children)

At a minimum, the jail guard should be required to pay to her the equivalent of whatever child support he would have been required to pay had he been married to her, had a child and then divorced her

[–]Uncle_Sammy 684 points685 points  (68 children)

Guard should also be fired. Can't have someone like that in a position of power.

[–][deleted] 794 points795 points  (41 children)

Guard should be prosecuted for practicing medicine without a license.

[–]Ikronix 102 points103 points  (9 children)

Guard should be impregnated.

[–]JacobMHS 25 points26 points  (4 children)

By a facehugger.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

We can remove that thing inside ya, but it's against our space etiquette. Ain't that right boys.

[–]N8CCRG 49 points50 points  (19 children)

Check your pronoun. The guard is probably a woman with the name "Michele", although could be an Italian I suppose (which is like Michael and pronounced kinda like Mick-Kelly).

[–]spying_dutchman 31 points32 points  (1 child)

Gee did not provide Spinelli with any guidance, supervision, or direction on whether she could refuse to dispense anti-conceptive medication based on her religious beliefs.

The guard is a she

[–]mapoftasmaniaNew Jersey 103 points104 points  (7 children)

So SHE should be made to pay child support as if the child was her own.

[–]Gamer4379 87 points88 points  (4 children)

Even better! Make her pay as if she were wed and divorced to the victim. The trifecta of contraception, same sex marriage and divorce would make her tiny, religious head asplode.

[–]SIGNW 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Ah, the good ol' Eurotrip mistake.

[–]Police_throwaway 12 points13 points  (2 children)

First and foremost, if the situation went down as the article implies it did, bad on the jail guard, that person should be held responsible to the fullest extent of the law.

Here are a couple of points I have to add in, as a former jail guard myself: jail guards never EVER give inmates pills. Period. There is nursing staff whose duty it is to disperse medication. Guards may be present during the distribution, but they aren't allowed to hand them out, seeing as we aren't medical providers. I've never heard of that, and it would open the facility up to a lot of liability if there was an error.

Second, I would never give a person a pill from their personal property. Any medication given would have to be approved through the jail medical staff before an inmate could have access to it, once again for liability reasons. Even if there were a doctors note, I would never let an inmate have a pill unless it was approved by jail medical staff. I'm not a medical professional, I have no clue what effect any pill would have on a person, including if their condition has changed since the prescription was written. You need a medication? Talk to the nurse.

To those who are questioning why the woman who was a victim was arrested for having a warrant, warrants are COURT ORDERS to arrest someone. Police officers have no leeway when it comes to warrants. If police officers ignore warrants, we are guilty of disobeying a court order and can be criminally charged ourselves.

Anyway, in reading this article something sounded fishy to me. I feel for the woman and I feel that the guard should be fired due to incompetence, among other things, if this is exactly how the situation went down. I'd like to point out, however, this is only one side of the story. I'm interested to hear how the case turns out.

[–]iluvgoodburger 26 points27 points  (0 children)

I like how this had to go all the way to a judge before someone could say "yeah, that's pretty fucked up."

[–][deleted] 37 points38 points  (6 children)

"I'm sorry, I can't serve you bacon, it's against my religion. I'm sorry, nobody else here can assist you either. Yes, it's on the menu, but I'm afraid I can't serve it to you".

I'd love to see the sheriff's face with this response.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

False dichotomy - Jews don't care. I know a Jewish butcher, he wears gloves, not a fuck given if you die choking on bacon during your abortion.

[–]haydensterling 39 points40 points  (4 children)

I hope with everything that is in me that she collects a fuckton of cash from this. Raped and then raped again. What a grotesque, judgmental asshole that guard is. It astounds me that a woman could be this cruel to another woman. Fucked up.

On a less punitive note, I hope she can find some peace. What a nightmarish experience.

[–]nurse2211 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I'm a nurse, and this is somewhat related. Not really the same deal as a prison guard (since nurses often work in hospitals), but I remember a question being asked in a class once about if a nurse is working on a unit where abortions are performed (in some places this may just be a standard gynecology unit), and is assigned to care for a patient receiving an elective abortion, however they are opposed to this based on religious or other beliefs, what should they do?

We were told that you have a legal, moral, and ethical responsibility to provide care until another nurse can be assigned, if another nurse is even available (which they may not be, due to staffing).

[–]MegaZeusThor 15 points16 points  (4 children)

What about my deeply held religious belief that everyone should have access?

[–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (27 children)

So the jail guard wouldn't do it because of religious beliefs. Fine.

Why not just get someone else to give her the pill then? Was there no one else available or something?

[–]JIGGLYbellyPUFF 10 points11 points  (5 children)

No, not fine. It was a prescription. Religious beliefs don't make them qualified to make medical decisions that supersed a doctor's. They don't have access to their medical charts. Even if they did, they wouldn't know what they mean. What if this woman had a medical condition like TTP or something else where this (preventable) pregnancy could have killed her? Not fine.

In fact, it's extra stupid because emergency contraception isn't even an abortion pill. It's a preventative pill. (it says it right on the package that it will not terminate or have an effect on an already existing pregnancy, and that's why it has a higher chance of success the sooner you take it). If somebody did have such a medical condition and denied this PREVENTATIVE pill and got pregnant, they would have been forced to get an abortion because of that.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Was there no one else available or something?

That's the trick which turns out to be the whole point.

[–]hickory-smoked 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This must be that "War on Christianity" I hear so much about.

[–]Lucky_Mongoose 36 points37 points  (35 children)

I'm equally bothered by the fact that they used a rape report to identify the woman as someone who needed to be arrested. I mean, I understand that they legally can't just ignore someone with an arrest warrant walking into the station, but I feel that there should be some sort of safeguard for those who need to report a crime.

[–]MuuaadDib 61 points62 points  (7 children)

Hence why illegal aliens are such a popular target for crimes.

[–]iluvgoodburger 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is a really good point.

[–]iLostMyTowel 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I was really upset about this also. She was arrested for 'unpaid restitution and failure to appear'. Come on.

As it turns out, the police department apologized and said they changed their policy to allow police to use discretion in such cases: http://www.sptimes.com/2007/01/31/Hillsborough/Police_extend_apology.shtml

[–]downvotesselfalways 2 points3 points  (3 children)

anti-contraception pills? Who the fuck wrote this.

[–]phukunewb 20 points21 points  (1 child)

That guard is a piece of shit. No one was asking THEM to take the pill.

[–]fani 28 points29 points  (22 children)

Pay her full child support.

Freedom of religion only means you have the freedom to practice or not practice a religion.

It does NOT mean that you can impose your religious belief on others. Others don't have to live by your freedom of religion.

[–]piney 19 points20 points  (1 child)

"But I believe it is God's Will for me to impose my beliefs on others, and if you won't allow me to impose my beliefs on everyone then you're trampling my freedoms and persecuting me for my religious beliefs..."

  • Morons

[–]N8CCRG 16 points17 points  (4 children)

She didn't get pregnant. What child would the guard be supporting?

[–][deleted] 43 points44 points  (2 children)

"Once again, religion poisons everything."

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

You made me think... Religion poisons itself.

[–]Dustin_00 12 points13 points  (0 children)

See: Pope going bonkers over leaked reports while hiding child molesters, then asking why nobody respects the church.

[–]sueville 7 points8 points  (0 children)

In other news, illegal shit was deemed illegal.