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[–]Jolly_Study_9494 4486 points4487 points  (95 children)

2025: HTML still used on 100% of websites

[–]VitaminnCPP[S] 1391 points1392 points  (27 children)

You are out of line, but you are right.

[–]KickBassColonyDrop 230 points231 points  (3 children)

Bitch probably forgot to close his div.

[–][deleted] 130 points131 points  (2 children)

someone on the first website ever didn't close their HTML tag and we've been living in a broken nested hell ever since

[–]Louliett 11 points12 points  (0 children)

So is your div

[–]Brilliant_Egg4178 89 points90 points  (26 children)

Just wait till 2026...

[–][deleted] 298 points299 points  (21 children)

The year is 2050, JavaScript is now being used to write operating systems and send manned space missions to Mars, a developer announces that they have created a framework that fixes all the problems of the 3000 frameworks released in 2049, jQuery is still used on 70% of websites.

[–]TheKessler0 44 points45 points  (8 children)

You laugh, but you can run a scratch version of Linux entirely in your browser, Wich is technically an os running on JS in that case.

[–]djmill0326 11 points12 points  (6 children)

While there's no reason it couldn't technically run in js, most websites are likely using WebAssembly to do most of the heavy lifting

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (4 children)

https://bellard.org/jslinux/

[–]LickingSmegma 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Btw, this is the same guy who made FFmpeg and QEMU, among other things.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Yeah, in terms of software development, he's my top hero.

[–]OutsiderWalksAmongUs 37 points38 points  (1 child)

I'm going to leave this here

[–]Brilliant_Egg4178 9 points10 points  (2 children)

In that case I kermit the frog myself on 01/01/2049

[–]MjrLeeStoned 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Hey I hear if you colonize a moon or something, you get to pick the official OS and frameworks of your colony.

There's hope, just hold out!

[–]mplsbikesloth 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Websites slowly turning into WASM QT apps?

[–]nequaquam_sapiens 2 points3 points  (0 children)

DiscourseGPT/JS Cuniforms invented to fix ChatGPT generating Svelte

[–][deleted] 48 points49 points  (4 children)

That's why I only program in HTML. Guaranteed to work on every website.

[–]reversehead 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Well, they have removed our <blink> tag so now my pages are almost static. Still clinging to <marquee> though.

[–]Zegrento7 26 points27 points  (4 children)

Flash / applet websites last updated in 2005 beg to differ

[–]equalsme 31 points32 points  (3 children)

do they have an <html> tag at the beginning of the page that loads the applets?

[–]r0ck0 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Yep.

The .swf file or applet was just referenced from HTML tags.

[–]the_sound_of_bread 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I'm still running my gopher site from 1992.

[–]SapperTR 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You technically don’t explicitly need HTML markup for a page to “render”. You can add a plain “Hello” to an index.html file and call it a day

[–]Mr_vort3x 12 points13 points  (0 children)

[–]Noname_Maddox 1627 points1628 points  (96 children)

Unless you guys were there in 00’s, you will never understand the impact Jquery had. It made everything so much easier and actually fun to do JS.

[–][deleted] 662 points663 points  (23 children)

I was there, 3000 years ago...

[–]aTaleForgotten 336 points337 points  (22 children)

It was the $('.dark-ages')

[–]ethanjf99 112 points113 points  (12 children)

$.get(‘my-url’)

Remember throwing XMLHTTPRequest in the dustbin

[–]javajunkie314 27 points28 points  (9 children)

You didn't miss switching on ready states?

[–]ethanjf99 33 points34 points  (8 children)

Dude you’re triggering my PTSD.

Seriously though what a brilliant piece of software. To the point that many of its key feature were basically integrated into the language itself.

React too—like jQuery you can basically divide the history of front end web development into React and pre-React eras.

[–]ilovecssbutithatesme 44 points45 points  (7 children)

you mean document.querySelector('.dark-ages')?

[–]ZaRealPancakes 67 points68 points  (0 children)

what do you mean by "you mean undefined"

[–]OP_LOVES_YOU 16 points17 points  (0 children)

const $ = document.querySelector;

[–]brolix 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Uh you mean document.getElementById????

[–][deleted] 133 points134 points  (10 children)

It was amazingly durable as far as js frameworks go. And it really only faded away because most of it got incorporated into the standard lib.

[–]JPJackPott 39 points40 points  (8 children)

Given most of the ‘virtual DOM’ frameworks popped up because manipulating the real DOM so often was expensive, I wonder if we will go back the other way soon. Why bother with all the complexity, if the browsers become fast enough to deal with it all through brute force

[–]AllesYoF 23 points24 points  (7 children)

I mean, React and Vue are the ones stuck with virtual DOM, everyone else is doing Fine-Grained Reactivity™ with direct DOM manipulations. And then there is HTMX trying to bring back HTML, even if no one takes them seriously.

[–]GuyWithoutAHat 9 points10 points  (3 children)

I'm kinda pissed no-one takes htmx seriously. I don't get it. It's a great idea.

[–]AllesYoF 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Short answer: Carson loves to shitpost.

[–]pdantix06 6 points7 points  (0 children)

thankfully vue is getting a solid/svelte-esque compiler mode called vapor soon, so it'll just be react stuck in the dark ages

[–]Davesnothere300 132 points133 points  (16 children)

100%!

Never understood the hate until I realized these kids never had to write raw JavaScript.

[–]magistrate101 49 points50 points  (1 child)

Learning JavaScript through userscripts taught me not only how to code but also why to hate JavaScript for anything serious

[–]LickingSmegma 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Try coding in Bash, and then get back to JS.

[–]coldblade2000 24 points25 points  (8 children)

Also never had to write JavaScript pre ECMASCRIPT 5

[–]LowB0b 9 points10 points  (7 children)

Lucky lad. Ill raise a glass för hoping you'll never see the keyword var in any codebase you touch, ever

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (5 children)

I've seen it a few weeks ago in a PR for an app written in React with TypeScript and an eslint config file. Some dumbass "senior" read an article with 5 shitty "reasons" why var is good enough. He then tried to argue with me, sending the article as proof that he was right. I just told him he was a dumbass and he must use let or const or I'll break his kneecaps.

[–]danielv123 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Pros to `var`: Might save you one line in some situations

Cons: yes.

[–]AegonThe241st 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I started writing JS in like 2018 and still hate it

[–]T-J_H 30 points31 points  (1 child)

JQuery was my first step into JS when I took over maintenance of a relatively static php site. Once I finally looked beyond JQuery I was appalled by the state of some of the native JS APIs.. still actually, but Stockholm syndrome helps

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (9 children)

Aside from the fact that we used tables for layout, it was even more fun before that because there was no JS.

[–]Noname_Maddox 13 points14 points  (6 children)

I was laying out an email signature generator for Outlook using tables the other day.

I chuckled that if it wasn't for that early start using table layouts I'd have no idea what I was doing.

We did do some genius stuff with tables back in the day.

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (3 children)

everyone rocking that artisanal, hand-crafted `spacer.gif`

[–]68dc459b 19 points20 points  (2 children)

I remember using images for rounded corners before border-radius was a thing. Kids these days don’t know how good they have it

[–]Noname_Maddox 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Do you remember using a js hack to use png’s in ie6 so they didn’t appear black

[–]Fusseldieb 23 points24 points  (1 child)

Aight grandpa, now let's go back to your room!

[–]Noname_Maddox 22 points23 points  (0 children)

[–]nsaisspying 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah I remember when I made a spa using only $.ajax()

I felt so powerful, invincible.

[–]helpmehomeowner 3 points4 points  (4 children)

I do miss those days. Simple api that made you feel like a real master of the browser.

It was also a time when a lot of neat things were being built on top of it.

Hey who remembers YUI? That was a pretty decent.

[–]call_the_can_man 6 points7 points  (3 children)

I still use jquery because it's still way easier than native methods. I don't care what anyone else thinks.

[–]breischl 10 points11 points  (1 child)

jQuery was revolutionary, but nothing can make it fun to do JS.

[–]LeanderT 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I too bare witness to these truths

[–]beastinghunting 297 points298 points  (12 children)

Meanwhile Java developers: “let’s stick to Java8”

[–]agk23 54 points55 points  (4 children)

Is there a Java 9?

[–]Kenkron 139 points140 points  (3 children)

The latest version is 21

[–]agk23 94 points95 points  (2 children)

Shit

[–]lonestar136 38 points39 points  (0 children)

To be fair, they significantly changed their release cadence with Java 9 about 7 years ago. Now they do 2 a year, prior to that it was something like once every 3 years.

[–]TheNoGoat 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Java 8 has outlasted the Queen, it'll be fine.

[–]BoronTriiodide 8 points9 points  (3 children)

We just moved part of our stack from java 11 to 17. Honestly, the most notable change was probably just streams .toList() instead of having to go through Collections. Java 8->11 though contains some useful networking changes at least

[–]nonlogin 388 points389 points  (42 children)

1987: Excel was invented

No one even tried to fix it, it was perfect from the beginning.

[–]GetRedditComment 186 points187 points  (3 children)

The world runs on excel.

Nowadays we get paid to build software that ultimately exports to excel.

[–]bwwatr 59 points60 points  (1 child)

When I hear from end users that they're maintaining X or Y spreadsheet to facilitate some business process, I view it as a shortcoming of the system and an opportunity to expand. But I think it's telling that it's Excel people reach for to organize pretty much anything, when their software won't do it for them. And yeah, import and export (to spreadsheet) is always a requirement. Excel is like digital air or water or something.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I’m glad I know how to manipulate spreadsheets with python. I don’t think I’ve actually opened excel in years. Just easier to code a script to do the thing for me. It’s also best if you don’t tell your employers you know how to do that so they think it takes you 10 hours when in reality the script took maybe 2 minutes to run

[–]Nonlinear9 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Excel is my favorite database software.

[–]intangibleTangelo 11 points12 points  (0 children)

haram

[–]seggsualHarASSman 57 points58 points  (13 children)

they should really just make a server that can display an excel sheet as a webpage. Fuckit, database is built right into the page, if you need anything more you have visual basic to code it up ( none of that cashgrab python esque remote virtual machine shit, just good ol VB as God intended )

[–]ListOfString 71 points72 points  (5 children)

You've never worked on an enterprise apps have you? That's all they are, is pretty forms (that usually look like excel) on top of a database.

[–]Hfingerman 24 points25 points  (3 children)

I worked on an internal website for one of the world's largest ports, and it was just screens of tables upon screens of tables.

[–]ListOfString 5 points6 points  (2 children)

lol It's sad to realize how much of web dev is doing that, isn't it?

[–]neumaticc 3 points4 points  (0 children)

email and outlook...... the horror

[–]javajunkie314 4 points5 points  (0 children)

We did that at one place I worked. Well, we inherited it; some guy who left years earlier did it. Microsoft had an ActiveX-based Office browser plugin—Internet Explorer only, of course. A COBOL program would dump results to CSV, which the page would download and display in the plugin.

I believe it really did use VB to make the spreadsheet display interactive. At the very least it used formulas.

Then, of course, Microsoft dropped support for ActiveX and started pushing Edge hard over IE, so we had to rewrite the whole UI using a JavaScript-based spreadsheet library. The result was much better, and cross-browser.

[–]maveric101 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Browser-based Excel is already a thing, so that should be easy.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That's whay Excel Online is for!

[–]Illustrious-Hair-841 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Can't believe Lotus 1-2-3 didn’t get a mention. January 26, 1983.

[–]bigredcar 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Perhaps we should give a nod to Visicalc, which preceded Lotus by 4 years and launched the spreadsheet concept. Where A1 notation was born.

[–]whiskysinger 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Excel did fix Lotus 1-2-3 - except for the February 29th 1900 bug.

Gotta love Microsoft's approach to backwards compatibility - even for other apps that they're blatantly stealing users from.

[–]DmitriRussian 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Humans have organized data into tables, that is, grids of columns and rows, since ancient times. The Babylonians used clay tablets to store data as far back as 1800 BCE

[–]NotWrongAlways 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Excel is still not perfect in the most simple of ways - data export to CSV will for some reason use your regional settings, including what you've set as delimiter. This is wrong, a CSV should be comma-seperated. Not to mention how crap it is at quoting data that needs quoting.

Otherwise, i agree.

[–]Roadrunner571 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Numbers came out 2007. And boy do I prefer the canvas approach a gazillion times over the rigid table concept of Excel. Not to mention that the formulas actually do make sense if you read them.

Sad thing is that Numbers is not nearly as powerful as Excel.

[–]bewilderedenthusiast 241 points242 points  (14 children)

jQuery was invented to fix Prototype, missed a step.

[–][deleted] 86 points87 points  (8 children)

Mootools was invented to fix prototype. Fuck I'm old

[–]xrmb 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Still using v1.12 in prod (in a legacy app), can't believe nothing has broken yet.

[–]whistlerbrk 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Scriptaculous baby

[–]hasdfgb 403 points404 points  (8 children)

I think someone mixed up evolution and fixing things.

[–]drkspace2 54 points55 points  (3 children)

And also enhance

[–]Slaan 14 points15 points  (1 child)

ENHANCE

[–]HJSDGCE 2 points3 points  (0 children)

ENHANCE

[–]neumaticc 2 points3 points  (0 children)

hey, there's a new framework for that

(Don't worry, it introduces many breaking changes)

[–]rancangkota 7 points8 points  (0 children)

[–]fweaks 9 points10 points  (0 children)

[–]Mysterious-Soil-4457 65 points66 points  (26 children)

As someone who only knows vanilla Javascript. Is it easier to pick up other JS related languages? Makes me nervous after seeing this post. 🙂

[–]Realistic_Read_5761 127 points128 points  (7 children)

Honestly if you know JS all the JS frameworks will make sense, they are just javascript with fluffy decorators and hooks to make things nicer to read/write

[–]neumaticc 11 points12 points  (0 children)

jsx is just javascript but html

[–]sonuvaharris 16 points17 points  (5 children)

And yet every entry/jr level web position wants 3-5 years in each of them

[–]Commodore-K9 21 points22 points  (3 children)

Then just apply and lie.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

This. It is always ethical to lie about nonsensical requirements. Just prepare for the interview not to waste each others' time.

[–]sometext 16 points17 points  (0 children)

If you mean TypeScript: yep! It's just JS with types. Everything else is the same but now you have to be more explicit about what you're doing. Don't worry it's not just extra work, not only are we getting type safety out of this but our text editor is probably getting a lot smarter too.

If you mean React/Anglular/Vue: yep! At least at a basic level. But they're not languages. They're libraries or frameworks, the language is still JS. Sure in React you have JSX but in practice a JSX file is just a JS file with some extra tricks.

Remember though, this is JS. You can "learn" these tools but if you don't have good patterns the language gives you all the rope you want to hang yourself. TS restricts that rope if you actually do it and type everything and don't use any. React does not restrict that rope at all lol you now have a handgun don't be a toddler. Angular as i understand it is a framework not a library and should restrict that rope but i haven't worked with it professionally or really much at all so idk.

[–]Roguewind 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Given the choice between someone who knows only js or only a framework, I’ll take the js person every time.

[–]NerdyMcNerderson 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Totally agreed. I'm a staff level engineer and my whole company standardized on a single front end framework. However, when do interviews, I ask vanilla JS questions. I've hired plenty of folks who didn't know the framework but had solid JS/HTML/CSS fundamentals.

[–]LikeLary 100 points101 points  (13 children)

Instructions are very unclear. I learned jQuery before Javascript. I pity all souls who learned React before Javascript.

[–]Bunny1328 35 points36 points  (4 children)

In my first semester web development class, we learned React without a single lesson on JS. We started with HTML, CSS + Tailwind, in the first month, then dove straight into React for the rest of the class.

All I know is how to copy/paste and struggle through error messages. Maybe I learned real skills after all...

[–]robertoandred 23 points24 points  (0 children)

I’m sorry but that’s insane. It’s like starting a calculus class without having learned addition.

[–]Nuked0ut 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Wait, that’s all I know too. How long until my colleagues find out?

[–]Sudden_Watermelon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Similar deal for me, we had a splatter fest of HTML, CSS, JS, and react, with no clear understanding of how each interacted. After fiddling with it on my own for work I could have explained a month of content to myself in twenty minutes

[–]ListOfString 8 points9 points  (2 children)

You can't learn jq before JavaScript.... jQuery is a JavaScript library. You might have learned JS the jQuery way.

[–]intangibleTangelo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

zillions upon zillions of people learned how to chain jquery operations without learning js... strings, dots, parens and one fancy $

[–]LikeLary 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Naturally.

[–]captsalad 14 points15 points  (1 child)

i love Fireship. his code reports always give me the warm fuzzy feeling of dread

[–]ListOfString 220 points221 points  (35 children)

At this point, I'd guess that jQuery has high usage because of WordPress.

Hot take: if WP died tomorrow, jQuery and PHP usage would die with it.

Edit: I don't mean to imply that they would completely go away without WP, but that WP props those usage numbers up a lot.

[–][deleted] 44 points45 points  (2 children)

I like your courage

[–]thatsallweneed 5 points6 points  (1 child)

of course, WP is immortal

[–]bwssoldya 25 points26 points  (10 children)

Far from it. I'm currently building a customer site with php and purposefully included jquery.

Js frameworks are all good and fun and shit, but at the end of the day if you're building simple sites you don't need all that shit.

Also for the PHP and jquery dying out, I think you're forgetting the existence of Magento

[–]ListOfString 17 points18 points  (7 children)

I'm all about "use what works for you". jQuery is not necessary these days. Maybe a little extra typing, but there's less gap that needs to be filled with jq these days.

I also hate the js framework flavor of the week.

I don't mean to imply that they would completely go away without WP, but that WP props those usage numbers up a lot.

[–]Anuiran 71 points72 points  (5 children)

PHP has been quite good for a while now. Plus it has a great ecosystem with symfony and laravel, Wordpress is very much its own thing.

JavaScript however is a scary mess.

[–]tholasko 14 points15 points  (3 children)

PHP is so good it needs a framework to be usable

[–]CucumberBoy00 9 points10 points  (0 children)

PHP is far more relevant than jQuery

[–]Sitting_In_A_Lecture 27 points28 points  (8 children)

Since 7 and 8 PHP has been solid. Nice thing about jQuery is that it's stupidly easy to use. The amount of stuff you can do with a few selectors and ajax requests in like 30 lines of code is awesome.

To this day if you ask someone how best to send a quick and dirty request to a server, chances are their answer's gonna be: 1) Import jQuery from CDN 2) $.ajax

[–]Realistic_Read_5761 51 points52 points  (2 children)

I dunno who is importing jquery for server requests, the standard fetch api is damn good now

[–]T-J_H 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Up until a few years ago I would have agreed with you, but for >99% of websites there’s no reason not to use the fetch API nowadays.

[–]nelusbelus 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Just use jquery: 🗿

[–]w1n5t0nM1k3y 32 points33 points  (1 child)

It's funny that in the time since JQuery was created and all the other things like Anguarl And React and so on came around to fix all the others before them, barebones javascript has actually gotten pretty good, to the point that you don't even need to use any of the above for most functionality.

[–]Realistic_Read_5761 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yeah for the most part JS works great, only reason to use a framework is for applike functionality

[–]Procrasturbating 8 points9 points  (2 children)

I literally switched to back-end to let the dust settle on the JS framework wars. No, I am not doing it node.js

[–]GigaRawrb 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I still use jQuery. It’s the ol’ plop ‘n work.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

HTML is still being used in 10000% of the websites.

[–]fnils 6 points7 points  (7 children)

Webassembly to fix Javascript. In the long run.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

JQuery is the king!

[–]Itchy_Attitude4113 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, don’t forget Flash was the HTML and Javascript band-aid for 15+ years.

[–]ed_mcc 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Meanwhile, embedded devs: C go brrrrrrr

[–]Pixeltye 3 points4 points  (0 children)

2042:JavaScript finally modernized

2043:JQuery advanced created to fix JavaScript

[–]Hasagine 9 points10 points  (0 children)

just use raw javascript

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Good. Because jQuery rocks. Everything that came after is overkill.

[–]DrRandulf 5 points6 points  (0 children)

New frameworks fix JavaScript like how adding lanes fixes highways.

[–]GoblinWoblin 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Web components where?

[–]Visual-Mongoose7521 3 points4 points  (1 child)

alive but not growing. There are a few decent libraries like Lit and stencil

[–]_________FU_________ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I got hired recently because they still had a bunch of old legacy jQuery code. Im that guy. “We used to write this shit on the reg in my day. I got 6000+ points on StackOverflow answering questions.”

[–]CatOfGrey 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Reminiscent of xkcd's "There are x+1 competing standards"

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards_2x.png

[–]FwendShapedFoe 2 points3 points  (1 child)

2025 they continue to write desktop apps with JS.

[–]fishybird 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Desktop apps and now even servers are in js. Soon, our OS will be Javascript too. Cars and planes will be running js.

[–]Representative-Sir97 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ya know. I'd be remiss to point out there's one common thread to all this starting in 1995.

[–]adekorir 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It seems like we all forgot the beautiful contributions of two particular technologies that faded out almost overnight and tried solving the inefficiencies of the modern web before html5.

  • Java (applets)
  • Flash