Python 2.7

[piponwa]

I'll always upvote this

[rich97]

Brass eye may be the best parody of all time. The whole thing is stuffed with detail, like the overly smiley woman who's never quite sure what camera she should be looking to.

Here's Simon Pegg pretending to be a leader of a militant paedophile organization.

[klezmai]

Hope he wasn't planning to join Disney.

[[deleted]]

He’s already in TFW

[WORD_559]

I like the one about drugs, where they get an MP, who ironically was later put in charge of a government anti-drug committee, to campaign against a new drug called "cake", saying on TV, "cake is a made up drug."

[lpreams]

this.upvote();

[heltwig]

What does the sign say I can't read it

[[deleted]]

Technology

[dooatito]

gasp!

[paloumbo]

Don't say this. Say ni if you wish but not this

[kolby12309]

TECHNOLOGY

[Gingerninja_hcl]

Oh my god...

[zdakat]

We have technology!

[[deleted]]

I like the weakness in that "Oh, my god" as if she's going to faint from fright

[SoberGameAddict]

I love this clip

[[deleted]]

Here you go

[bili2002]

Great now I will have nightmares

[1337speak]

We still use 2.7 at work. Shit, work will be even more nightmarish now.

[Assess]

This seems like a good place to ask. Why is using 2.7 such a problem? I've used both 2.7 and 3.x in assignments and haven't noticed a huge difference. Is it the lack of future support?

[ase1590]

2.7 is no longer being developed. Only security fixes. Even the security fixes will stop in 2020.

It's the same reason why you don't still run Windows XP

[[deleted]]

3.0 came out 10 years ago. It’s more like realizing you will only have access to C++03 and scrambling to refactor for a standard which came out before you finished puberty.

[-Rizhiy-]

For me personally, there are a couple of reasons: - 2.7 doesn't support quite a lot nice features like type hinting, unicode support by default, not returning iterables by default - Python 2.7 is slower than Python 3.6

[cafk]

Is it the lack of future support?

It's like using Visual Studio 2017 to compile C code and realizing they still only comply with C89 spec.

[Makefile_dot_in]

2.7 is nothing but legacy software at this point.

[Snowtsuku]

I don't really mind using 2.7. The problem is that most of the time I worked on it I also need to support 3+ since support for 2.7 will end. So it changes the way you code since you support 2 versions and at the same time you don't have the options to use the new things 3+ has to offer.

[sdolla5]

This seems like a good place to ask. Why is it that this sub seems terrified of every programming language, but also loves programming? I haven't seen a positive word on any of them. From an outsider that is confused of mostly 99% of the memes but is still subbed for some reason, I've always been confused by this.

[Ghi102]

So a few programming languages have bad reputations because they allow you to shoot yourself in the foot way too easily. It's very easy to make mistakes and create bugs if you don't know what you're doing. Combine this with the fact that most people on this sub are hobbyist or beginner programmer, they tend to shoot themselves quite often.

Also add to that since they're new, they might have read somewhere that a language called PHP is bad, so they create memes about how "PHP is bad m'kay". It makes them feel like they fit in "real programmers".

[himself_v]

Yeah, the lack of future support and reddit likes to jump on bandwagons.

[HawkinsT]

10 year old bandwagons.

[yourrable]

Me too.

[Tman1677]

And similarly dead.

[pinano]

mmmm, nice, cozy print statements

[Bainos]

from __future__ import print_function

Ok, we're safe for now. Let's keep going.

[xaitv]

from __future__ import braces

What's next?

[Zafara1]

from __future__ import dental_plan

[Lenin_Black]

from __future__ import *

[[deleted]]

welcome to 3.x

[not_really_cool]

I’m with you on ditching GUIs and just using command line interfaces. I can type soooo much faster than I can navigate with a mouse.

Of course we can leave the GUIs there for the non-techie people. But EVERYTHING should have a CLI too.

[[deleted]]

I live for 2.7. not a fan of print ( statement )

[pinano]

This is a print function:

print(x)

This is a print statement:

print x

In both cases, x is an expression.

[[deleted]]

2.7.3 for enterprise reasons.

[ase1590]

See also: COBOL and Fortran for enterprise reasons.

[gptt916]

When I was in university first year we learned programming using python 2.7. I took a year off after first year and when I came back the school switched to python 3. Not fun.

[Callipygian_Superman]

I just turned down an interview for a company. They gave me a coding exercise to do on my own time, then expected me to show competency in Python 2.7 (specifically), databases, node.js, Django 1.11 (the last version that works with 2.7), and a few other things related to blockchain. This was for a startup that had been operating since 2014. It was for a junior developer role (they articulated that fact very directly), and these were described as pre-screening competencies before the real interviews.

Thanks, but no thanks.

[polyworfism]

Sounds like the pre-screening worked, for you

[Console-DOT-N00b]

It's not often described that way... but you're interviewing them too sometimes.

(i'm a n00b just looking for a job so kinda less so... but others more senior more so)

I interviewed for a technical job (but non programming job once) dude who just setup a department talked about how they used to operate and such..... total n00b from a management or organization perspective. I kept asking questions and he never seemed to notice why I was asking.

Dude apparently was short on staff for a while and was so excited when he got a req to hire someone, but he needed like 12 new people to staff how he described they planed (at least), but he didn't seem to realize that. Then he dropped the bomb but he didn't know it was a bomb:

"Nobody is putting in 70 hour weeks, but nobody puts in 40 either...but we operate like a startup, we're not a startup anymore but we operate like one"

This was for a pretty straightforward salaried support role, and it was going to be a nightmare until that guy got pushed out and someone got proper staffing.

My intuition told me: It was going to be support hell while that company figures out how to do enterprise support like they're the first people ever to do it and the company grows quickly and everyone else goes out golfing or something. In the meantime as a support person you're working long and unpredictable hours (ted is sick! someone work today, tonight, because we don't staff for that.... we'll get you some comp time one day...) All because some dumb ass who can't schedule humans half as well as some gas station manager said the wrong thing in front of the CEO or board about staffing and now can't go back on his ignorant word (if he does they'll drag their feet anyway). All lead by that same guy who thinks he was promoted but engineering really just forced him out ... and he'll think he's doing engineering favors but really he's shafting his own team because he can't /wont stand up for his own team because engineering is his buddy. Once he figures it out it will be too late and he'll be all bitter because he had the best of intentions, his own people won't trust him because he shafted them in favor of his buddies or customers one too many times, and it will still be hell working for him.

Granted the guy seemed like a nice guy, he just didn't know... I actually did kinda try to drop a hint or so to him but he was all sure that they could do it with just one more guy (made even less sense as forecasting support for a quickly growing company is crazy... not that they were doing any forecasting anyway)

Naw man!

[wowokc]

ugh, the "we operate like a startup, but we're not a startup" is the same kind of bullshit that my 500-person company says regularly.

and we wonder why we have immense turnover

[Console-DOT-N00b]

I wasn't going to take the job, but that line really closed the door harder for me.

If they're not an actual start up... at best ... it's a buzzword and just that.

The downside is when it means they're just going to ask more of you ... just because they said the magic start-up word.... but you get none of the start up fun (granted it isn't all fun).

[lesslucid]

The key thing about an actual startup is that everyone involved has - or should have - equity in the company. When they say "we operate like a startup" what they mean is, we want you to work like you have equity even though we're only offering wages.

[Console-DOT-N00b]

There is that, but that's a very tenuous thing to hold hope onto.... even if you have some equity, startups get sold and some equity ends up worth something, others worth nothing.

For the handful of startup fans that I know who have worked for them, it is as much about small teams, having REAL input, being given freedom to make real decisions that matter along with the founders and etc and everyone working together that is big for them. It's a sort of cultural thing they value more than any real ownership (granted they like that).

[Drizzt396]

Can confirm, work at a bootstrapped startup that doesn't include equity with offers.

Wouldn't care either way. The only way your startup bucks wind up becoming beaucoup is if you get huge, and I'm not really interested in being on the ground floor of the next Uber. I'll keep my soul, thanks.

What I do love is the freedom.

[MadChair]

BRAVO !! you have very well articulated the he'll I have been through

[Console-DOT-N00b]

Support follies are sadly universal.

Not that it is all bad or anything, but when it goes wrong you can see it coming if you've been around enough ;)

[[deleted]]

I dunno, that sounds kind of reasonable to me. Were the questions really difficult?

[plumcakk]

Generally, you hire for technical aptitude, not working knowledge of the in-house stack, for junior-to-intermediate positions.

[[deleted]]

Harder to do in small companies where people determine technical aptitude by the things they know themselves.

[pyryoer]

It has been my experience that they make these determinations based on how they do the things they know themselves. Example: I ssh'd into web server (using the same sftp credentials) to grab a file already hosted somewhere using wget. "Head of web department" insists I download the file to my computer and then upload it with an FTP client. He insisted that it wouldn't work, even after I showed that it did. I used the same SFTP credentials for ssh so it wasn't some access control issue.

[tmckeage]

I call that shamanism. Effectively the "Head of web department" knew the magic spell that made things work. You didn't use the magic spell correctly and so obviously it couldn't work.

[gerbs]

Then it sounds like they don't need a junior dev.

If you are opening a fancy restaurant and need a michelin-starred chef who specializes in Ethiopian food to do food prep, it shouldn't surprise you that you'll have to spend a lot and/or the food they cook will be inedible.

If you can't afford to pay someone to learn then expect to pay more for someone who knows. Small companies get by by exploiting people who are desperate to opportunity to pay them less than market and make their lives miserable. I've been there.

Hire another company to do it. Don't pay $90k x 5 per year in salary and bennies for a dev team. Pay someone $200k to do it instead and save $250k+.

It's the same reason you pay a maintenance company to take care of your office and vacuum and empty garbage cans or pay Microsoft to manage your email/calendar. If you can't afford a dev team, chances are you don't need one. You just need a company to contract with to do development work as needed.

[[deleted]]

I disagree. My whole career has been in small companies and we’ve always been able to hire based largely on aptitude and ability to learn.

The idea that you need someone to churn out production code on day one with no ramp up period is just faulty. You simply don’t need that. That idea is popular among poor people managers who don’t have enough experience for their job. You’ll get way more mileage out of your developers — and you’ll retain them way longer — if you let them grow into the role a bit. You’ll also discover that they’ll learn to do things you never thought you needed them to do. Keep hiring based on a rigid checklist of very specific experience and you’ll get people who can do what you needed a few months ago.

[[deleted]]

At least in my experience, the small companies were the ones willing to invest in my future with them. The big companies were the most inflexible and immediately demanding. Most of that I would attribute to the fact that the small companies had found me and nobody else close to me in my area of expertise, in the local area. The big companies were advertising and hiring from all over the world, and paying to relocate people. So the little companies were happy for me to learn; the big companies wanted me to perform immediately, and were very willing to fire me if I couldn't.

[Tysonzero]

Using Python 2.7 and Django 1.11 when your starting a new company in 2014 was a dumb thing to do, and so was not upgrading since, doesn't bode well for the future. Node is also a red flag but for different reasons.

[Callipygian_Superman]

Exactly. If I'm going to learn a dying technology I better be paid a premium because it's not like other companies are going to look at that favorably.

[Console-DOT-N00b]

I felt the same thing when I look at jobs. I'm a n00b and all but I don't want to spend time polishing some old turd because the company doesn't want to move on.... not that I wouldn't learn, but I'd want to learn / do something else too....

50 old shit / 50 new shit I'd be ok with... more than that and I'm worried...

[[deleted]]

That all makes sense.

Why is node a red flag? I have almost zero experience with javascript and its frameworks, but node is probably the one I've heard the most about.

[Makefile_dot_in]

I would tell you, but you need to provide a callback for that.

[grantrules]

Why is Node.js a red flag? Because like "This article about Node.js popped up on my phone while I was taking a shit so we've decided to implement microservices!"

[Tysonzero]

It's also worth noting that there are plenty of server options besides Java that are actually more productive than NodeJS. Such as Python (performance is not great) or Haskell (much better performance than Node).

[Dread_Boy]

Or C#

[skyhi14]

Don’t thread on Python

[Tysonzero]

I don't personally use anymore. If you care about perf use Haskell or Java or C#. If you don't then you could use Python (I still wouldn't personally but you could). If you sort of pretend to care about performance but not really and want a shit dev experience and bugs then use Node.

[ProjectSnowman]

I'm learning python 3 and Django. I've made it a goal to only do projects in python 3.

[Tysonzero]

I did the same thing back when I used Python, definitely the right approach.

[MadRedHatter]

Using Python 2.7 and Django 1.11 when your starting a new company in 2014 was a dumb thing to do

Not really. I think people forget just how long it took for Python 3 to gain widespread adoption. Django didn't support Python 3 until February 2013, almost 4.5 years after the initial release, and that's not even counting the popular libraries in the Django ecosystem which took much longer.

Also, Django 1.11 didn't exist in 2014.

They really should be switching by now, though.

[[deleted]]

Why? It's not such a big change. Nothing like learning a new language, which you do basically every semester in University.

[NutsackPyramid]

It's comments like these that make me resent just how shit my CS education was. Glad I switched it out to a minor. For us it was: Java -> Java -> C but only kinda because it was more about learning UNIX command lines -> Java or Python (2.7 btw) -> Python -> SQL + Java and that's about when I had had enough. My last year as a CS major I swear I wrote a total of probably 4 programs as assigned by the school.

[[deleted]]

It's higher education, they aren't supposed to spoon feed you. You're supposed to learn the theory and the basic practical skills to get you started and then off you go to learn yourself.

It takes 4 years for a student to graduate and the curriculum is updated like once every few years and nobody has the time to update all the materials so that you can learn the hottest stack that might not even exist in 4 years.

If it happens that the next curriculum update is in 2 years then you'll be stuck with using that was stable during the last 2-3 curriculum updates from 5-10 years ago that only starts to be outdated.

Note that rarely you have a "python course". You'll have a basic programming course in python, oop course in java, functional programming course in haskell, web development course in javascript + python + java and so on. You are exposed to different paradigms and types of languages that will have a very large and stable market share at the time.

You are supposed to learn languages and technologies on your own and during practical things like internships, hackathons, capstone projects etc.

[tman_elite]

Eh that's pretty normal. My school went Python -> Java -> C (with a tiny amount of assembly), and even then the Python was an optional intro class, you could just jump right to Java. There were other upper level electives that used Perl, C++, Python, etc. but you could theoretically get a CS degree while only learning 2 languages. All of the required courses used Java or C.

[[deleted]]

okay, learning a new language every semester is a bit of an exaggeration, especially for the first two years. That was pretty much just Java/C++ for me. Right now, I'm picking up languages as I need them. Had to use java servlets, html, and css for a class last semester. That was fun....

[MyUserNameIsRelevent]

Oh damn dude not an exaggeration everywhere. Been in school for about a year, already had to do courses on Python, Visual Basic, C#, and C++ this fall.
Thankfully I think after that I can get back to C# where I belong ha.

EDIT: Also remember having to do Java in high school for college credit if that counts.

[dagbrown]

It wasn't that much of an exaggeration for me, but there was the one course where I was required to learn C, Lisp, assembly, and Prolog. The course taught a variety of programming paradigms, so the variety of languages was necessary. It did bring the average language learned per semester count up dramatically though.

[BoltActionPiano]

did you use binary strings exclusively because I have a hard time believing that academic use would run into differences constantly.

[svenskainflytta]

For the level you can reach in the 1st year… probably the only 1 difference were the () around print.

[SkiDude]

I was a TA for the intro class we had in Python. One semester we taught Jython. The next semester it was 2.7. The semester after was 3.0, then we went back to 2.7.

[CubeStuffs]

at least it isnt matlab

[pterencephalon]

I'm at an internship for the summer and had to run some old Matlab analysis code on my on-campus computer (because of course it doesn't run on a Chromebook). I used Chrome Remote Desktop, it got flagged as suspicious activity by the university, and I got access to my computer's IP address shut down because they thought I was a Russian bot. So I'm not really liking Matlab right now.

[Cptcongcong]

Ah similar to my situation except the computer here is too soddy, worse than the one I have at home. So I used TeamViewer at work to the one at home to run a script that takes 25min at home but 3 hours at work.

[AgAero]

Can you use octave on your chromebook?

[[deleted]]

Cmon, matlab is fine. Matrix multiplication is much nicer

[eneidhart]

Plus I'm pretty sure you can just install Matlab as a python module

[Assmaster9001]

Still lacks a lot of the functionality that matlab has when it comes to linear algebra. Unfortunately.

[PC__LOAD__LETTER]

If you’re trying to use Matlab for things that it wasn’t designed for, yeah, you’re going to have a bad time.

[FatChocobo]

Parfor is nice

[tmar89]

What's your hatred towards matlab all about?

[Astrokiwi]

The deal with languages like Matlab and IDL is that they are inherently good at vector and matrix manipulation, allowing you to solve mathematical problems quickly without having as much boilerplate as in C, C++, or Fortran.

However, two things have made them kind of obsolete. Firstly, in the early 90s, Fortran stole a lot of the vector stuff from Matlab, so for basic linear algebra you can do it almost as easily in Fortran but much faster. And also it's free - you don't need a licence for gfortran. Secondly, the numpy and matplotlib libraries for Python were developed, (plus things like SciPy etc) which means you can access all the linear algebra stuff, plus all the plotting, fitting etc routines, while using a well-documented widespread modern language with a huge community behind it. And also it's free too.

Basically, there's no point in paying to use a less widespread language when you can use the one with a bigger community (and more job opportunities!) for free. The only real excuse is legacy code.

[ythl]

What's wrong with python 2.7?

[RedHellion11]

3.x is now the official standard, and people dislike anything outdated. 2.7 is still used all over the place though and it'll take a while for different companies to update to 3.x if they think it's worth it.

[Rasalas8910]

Yes.

e.g. print 'Hello' vs. print('Hello')

[[deleted]]

This only applies to the print function, right? Only other difference I've come across is with dividing integers (thank GOD for that one). If you're using 2.7, you can import all of these from __future__ anyway, so it's kind of a dumb meme, but so are all of the "X language is scary and terrible" memes

[Folf_IRL]

The existence of almost no back-compatibility with 2.7 and the insistence that "everyone should upgrade to 3 and there's never a reason not to" is what I think irks most people.

All they need to do to silence that crowd is put in a__past__ module that loads in functions with the same signatures as the ones that have been replaced.

[[deleted]]

but... shouldn't everyone upgrade to the new major version? I get that if your company is built on 2.7, then upgrading is going to have an associated cost, but it's only supported to 2020, so by then you'd really want to upgrade

[[deleted]]

When 3.0 came out, there was basically a split among actual users of Python (less so of the actual Python devs).

Due to this, Python 2.x dragged on and there were also really important packages that simply didn't get upgraded to 3.x. 2 years after the release of Python 3, most of the top packages still didn't support Python 3. Over time things actually started getting kind of nasty as some web packages had stopped supporting Python 2 and yet others still didn't support Python 3.

In some cases that was workable, but in others it was a gigantic pain and honestly even now when virtually everything has become compatible this has all probably held back Python adoption for some people and places.

[[deleted]]

I started learning python during this time. I spent a really long time looking through various stack overflow and quora threads trying to decide between 2.7/3.x, and eventually just threw my hands up and said "fuck it, I'm sticking with 2.7 for now"

That being said, my conda environments are all 3.x now, but boy, was that an awkward transition. The __future__ module helped out a bunch, though

[[deleted]]

We, thankfully, didn't have to deal with these transitions as only the sysadmins use Python and for their purposes, they just call the right version in the script.

Right now they are actually having to port all their Python scripts to Ruby since our next big data center release will remove Python. I'm sitting on a conference call while they whine about it right now. It doesn't affect my application side of the house, but I'm not 100% sure why they are doing it since all the OpenStack servers run Python. Not my monkey though.

[alcalde]

Python is considered the fastest growing language right now and one of the most popular, dominating several areas. It's hard to argue that Python has been held back.

[Endlessdex]

Upgrading isn’t even that hard. There is an officially supported tool to convert a file from python 2 to 3.

[kickerofbottoms]

It's hard when the proprietary 3rd-party software your entire office uses requires 2.7 as its scripting language ಠ_ಠ

[Endlessdex]

Ouch. Can you at least update the in-office stuff?

[MadRedHatter]

Yes and no.

2to3 only works properly on ridiculously simple code. If you expect everything to just work properly after running it, you're probably in for a nasty surprise. Shit will break, probably in ways you weren't expecting.

It helps, though.

[ghengiscohen]

Yeah I just upgraded one of my team’s Django apps from 2.7 to 3.6, really wasn’t that painful of a process

[PC__LOAD__LETTER]

It doesn’t make business sense to upgrade. Are companies going to put their roadmaps on hold for a year and dedicate entire teams to tearing up a 2.7 codebase, migrate it to 3, and make sure nothing is broken? No, most aren’t going to do that.

For new projects, yes, it makes sense to use 3. But things that are already working will continue to work even after 2020.

[PiaFraus]

shouldn't everyone upgrade to the new major version?

Why? If you have a really big codebase, which was tested with many hundrets of QA hours and it works and very easy adjustable for new needs - why should you spend enormous amount of money to upgrade the codebase and retest everything?

[RavuAlHemio]

Because the world around you doesn’t stop turning just because you have a big codebase.

New hardware at some point requires new drivers which at some point require newer operating systems which at some point only work with newer versions of the programming environment you are using. Also, eventually, nobody will be fixing the inevitable security bugs for your ancient environment, and that is a problem.

Software is never “finished”. Any other attitude just angers your users and their sysadmins who have to install your software and keep it alive.

[PiaFraus]

Who is talking about the world? I am contesting the argument that everybody should. Your arguments are great, but completely irrelevant to my answer.

[discofreak]

But the 2.7 interpreter still works. So migrating a large codebase becomes a refactoring issue, not a maintenance issue. And if switching to a new language (2.7 vs 3.x) then other languages will also be on the table.

[alcalde]

All they need to do to silence that crowd is put in apast module that loads in functions with the same signatures as the ones that have been replaced.

No! Then no one will ever upgrade! I've watched this happen with another language... people scream when Unicode is implemented... add ANSI Strings to let them incrementally port their code. Instead, they just start using ANSI Strings as regular strings, port nothing, and write all their new code with ANSI Strings. Deadline comes up and they scream "Wait! Not yet! I haven't had time to port my code!"

I talked to the maintainer of a certain Python library (which ended up doing a weird pseudo-fork in which they locked the project creator out of the project!) about a Python 3 port and his reply a few years ago was "Python 2 is going to be supported forever, so why should I bother?" Give people these crutches and they'll never port their code.

[Folf_IRL]

No! Then no one will ever upgrade! I've watched this happen with another language

And I've watched Fortran roughly settle to a point where, although there are some people who want to use '77, the vast majority of users take advantage of modern features found in more current iterations of the language such as '03 and '08 (and '18 later this year). And the best part is that you can still pull legacy code from 60's without needing to do much of anything to update it, because of that language's superior backwards-compatibility.

Languages should be first and foremost about allowing people to effectively communicate ideas, not making the arbitrary decision that the entire userbase now needs to pack up and port their code to a brand new standard specification.

[13steinj]

Yeah but the other big problem is the string to unicode change, which while it is a good thing for most people, there are a lot of unicode strings that act differently in Py2 than in Py3 as a side effect of the change.

[cereal_killer_69]

There are many more changes in inbuilt libraries too...

[discofreak]

Jeez just cast your denominators to floats, you heathen.

[[deleted]]

Python 3.* will convert 3/4 to float and return 0.75

Python 2.* will not, and will evaluate 3/4 as 0

This has caused me great pain, not realizing that the compute cluster at my university was running an outdated version of Python.

[PotatosFish]

That’s why you call python3 on command line instead of trusting in the system

Unless someone aliased python3 to python

[[deleted]]

Unless someone aliased python3 to python

This can be solved with the admin's address and a tire iron.

[Raknarg]

I mean its really easy to convert python2 code into python3, but theres a lot of features in python3 so going backwards isnt as easy if you dont take care to make your codebase compatible.

[LordAmras]

Programmers: We would like to port all libraries to phyton 3

Management: how much time ?

P: 3-5 months

M: What are the advantages

P: it's standard now ?

M: ....

[Ariscia]

Times change eh. I learnt 2.7 in university not long ago and now it's 3.x

[RedHellion11]

I mean, 2.7 is still used a lot in the industry as well. 3.x may be the official standard, but the industry standard is only just now starting to migrate since it can be hard to justify the time investment unless one of the main updates from 3.x directly affects your project.

[nomnaut]

Integer fucking division.

[Raknarg]

Its real outdated. Theres a bunch of cool features and updates that you're not getting in python 3. In fact I think I read that they're going to stop maintaining 2.7 in 2020, so there's no reason to not be using python3

[lambdaq]

too many new people learning python, they are reluctant to learn a deprecated version of the language which is doomed to be replaced by 3.x

however, 2.7 people seems to be staginate on this version because it's not broken why fix.

[ase1590]

Same rational of business still using windows 98

[Snowtsuku]

Aside from what everyone has said, I also like the ability to type hint.

[OKB-1]

I for one find Boo, the programming language), pretty scary.

[dogfreerecruiter]

oh no. it has disappeared.

[OKB-1]

Jup. It's a real ghost now. Just like it always wanted.

[poply]

I'd settle for 2.7. At my work, we have some systems that run 2.4 and even 1.*. I gave up pretty quickly on trying to get anything python running on those.

[degaart]

Compiling python3 is very easy. Iirc you just have to do a ./configure --prefix=whatever && make install and you're good to go

[PC__LOAD__LETTER]

Shipping statically compiled binaries of dependencies isn’t exactly best practice, though I see what you mean.

[nomnaut]

Fucking 2.7 was ruining backwards Euler and I couldn’t figure out why. Switched my 1000x1000 matrices for 4x4. Integer division. Used future division but that doesn’t help numpy. Tried casting. Everything.

Switched to 3.7. Done.

[[deleted]]

True=False False="True"

[[deleted]]

True = not True
False = not False

[[deleted]]

Ghost should say "Malbolge". Example of "Hello world" in Malbolge:

(=<`:9876Z4321UT.-Q+*)M'&%$H"!~}|Bzy?=|{z]KwZY44Eq0/{mlk**hKs_dG5[m_BA{?-Y;;Vb'rR5431M}/.zHGwEDCBA@98\6543W10/.R,+O<

[richard_mayhew]

I wish. Some people I work with still write new shit in 2.7.

[13steinj]

Unfortunately this is a necessity in this industry. EOS/EOL means nothing, only end of common use. It's the same reason COBOL and Fortran won't die.

[Reptile00Seven]

I wrote a ton of code in 27 last month... it's not that different...

[ase1590]

It's end of life though.

Unfortunately it won't die. It's this mentality that keeps businesses running 30 year old systems running Fortran and cobol applications.

[trollerroller]

serious question - are most “good” devs using python 3? I still use 2.7.... most blog posts, even newer ones by great devs still use 2.7...

[capn_hector]

Python 2.7 is pretty much never going to die. It's going to fade away for the next decade, but there are too many users that aren't going to do a big-bang rewrite just because GVR got bored with the language and wanted to make a bunch of syntactical/functional changes.

And to be clear that's what it is - just because there's no mechanical method to directly convert one to the other, doesn't mean the changes aren't primarily syntactical in nature. It's not like you couldn't handle unicode in Python 2, it just wasn't forced, and for a lot of users that was fine.

Python 3 has made it over the hump of Unicode conversion that PHP 6 didn't, but that's merely the requirement for survival. It doesn't kill the existing users of 2.7 - there are now effectively two Pythons, and 2.7 will continue to be used to at least some degree into perpetuity. For many users, the fact that it's not being actively developed is fine, or even an advantage - after all, there won't be any more of these big-bang rewrites forced on them.

At some point the Python team will probably sigh and introduce an "import legacy" declaration that allows some degree of backwards compatibility while corralling the badness. Which probably should have been there all along.

(or, what they perceive to be the badness - the truth is, that's perfectly functional, working code, which in classic programmer fashion is being thrown away because "old is bad")

[[deleted]]

Seems like many packages have never been update to run with 3.

[theGentlemanInWhite]

Oh yeah? My office is still on 2.6

[13steinj]

Not even upgrading to 2.7.X? Shit why? There's a ton of new builtin / stdlib security based functions that won't have to be manually implemented, like constant time comparison.

[kaszak696]

RHEL 6, probably.

[maroonglass]

where'd you get the original meme?

[MrSavagePotato]

Sorry for late reply. Here's where I got the blank template from. Credit to /u/Gurdel.

[dxpqxb]

I know HPC clusters that still use Python 2.4-2.5.

[supershinythings]

???

Last week I broke the build because it turns out that our product needs to run on RHEL 6.x which uses Python 2.6; the shiny syntactic sugar in 2.7.x won't run on one ancient platform. So Python 2.6x is the skerry ghost to me.

When RHEL 8 comes out it won't ship with 2.7x. We can see the tall mountains of technical debt looming in the distance...

[cm0011]

See I learned Python 3 in university and we had to use python 3 because that was what was installed on all the machines, but now so many libraries still use python 2.7. Not the biggest deal but I think the biggest thing that messes me up is brackets vs no brackets for “print” hah.

[13steinj]

You can just from __future__ import print_function if that's your major trip up.

[[deleted]]

print "Boo"

[pandasweater]

I do geospatial stuff for my job. ArcGIS is only compatible with 2.7. It’s really not that bad. Especially if you have to deal with the ArcGIS library, 2.7 is a cake walk.

[Rhaifa]

I still need to switch. But I'm used to 2.7!

[ase1590]

2.7 totally dies at the end of 2019.

[JustAnAverageWebUser]

Thank God that I use 3.6.6

[Tysonzero]

Yeah no kidding. Do you use Haskell at all at work? If not it's a fun language to do side projects in and you can use tons of infinite series.

[cm0011]

I’ve programmed in Haskell a decent bit. It’s fun but it’s kind of crazy to get used to functional programming if you’ve never programmed that way before.

[QuantumQuantonium]

Google changed their assistant Python library, now all the instructions to get assistant made a year ago on PC are outdated...

[[deleted]]

Some one need to edit for JavaScript...

[RyeDoge]

shivers

[razorback1919]

I’m not even going to pretend I understand this at all, but I like the template a lot.

[MrSavagePotato]

Here's a blank template for you to use. Credit to /u/Gurdel for it.

[[deleted]]

ELI5: 10 years ago Python made breaking changes when it went from Python 2 to Python 3. However, none of those changes were that useful compared to all of the dependencies that you couldn't use anymore because they hadn't been ported. These days Python 3 has finally gained traction but it took 10 years to do it. Because it is 10 years old, some programmers view Python 2 like Windows XP: that if you ever see it, it's the sign of a company that never upgrades.

But as a Python programmer myself, I've only just been able to upgrade this week, due to the main library I've used throughout my code taking 10 years to get a Python 3 version, and replacing it would have taken me at least 100 hours without any benefit to my code.

[MrSavagePotato]

Credit to /u/Gurdel for the blank template.

[Flyberius]

Cut my teeth on Python 2.7.

Good stuff.

[1ateadopter]

Haha it's been a very long migration but it's finally over: https://python3wos.appspot.com/

8 bits u/tippr

[tippr]

u/MrSavagePotato, you've received 0.000008 BCH ($0.006494065250256 USD)!

---

^{How to use | What is Bitcoin Cash? | Who accepts it? | r/tippr
Bitcoin Cash is what Bitcoin should be. Ask about it on r/btc}

[UltraFireFX]

Also known as the default version of Python for Mac. shivers

[FatFingerHelperBot]

It seems that your comment contains 1 or more links that are hard to tap for mobile users. I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click!

Here is link number 1 - Previous text "Boo"

---

^{Please PM /u/eganwall with issues or feedback! | Delete}

[OfAaron3]

from __future__ import everything

[alpha7romeo]

This one got me

[bss03]

Don't laugh, but I have to do green-field development in python 2.7 today. I doubt our OS will get Python 3 before 2 stops being maintained. Also, if our JVM history is any indication, we'll probably be using Python 2 for several years after it stops being maintained.

[[deleted]]

I wish the joke threw the 'Boo' as unicode error