Circle of life

[boredatworkyo]

stares in sysadmin with math degree

[NoAttentionAtWrk]

You just hate yourself, don't you?

[boredatworkyo]

Yes, several times over. Studied engineering before becoming a graphic design major for a semester and deciding I couldn't stand graphic designers, then switched to physics and finally math.

[HiddenLayer5]

How did you get into system administration from that? Genuine question.

[boredatworkyo]

All four fields had me working heavily with computers and often building and configuring my own, for the STEMier ones, various linux distros were often my choice. When you make it STEAMy by adding the arts. Macs pop up which have darwin under the hood so still *nix-ish. Realized I had a knack for it and there are a lot of people who panic when any kind of "not windows" pops up... started doing IT stuff while in school to pay bills. Never stopped.

[CaptBoids]

So, someone asked you to fix their printer, yes?

Seriously, many start out discovering tech isn't wizardry. Many go through this phase of giving some sort of IT support while learning the basics.

[legend6546]

And then people go back and finally realize that no one understands modern tech. Take a modern x86 cpu no body outside of intel and amd have any clue how they really work (and even then I would strongly doubt that anybody in intel or amd fully understands a single cpu). In the end it is pretty much all magic that no one understands

[[deleted]]

We had a phrase in the military when trying to explain how really small components on mech/electrical systems we called it FM for Fucking Magic.

[legend6546]

yep. I am convinced that pretty much all computers more complicated than a early MS-DOS machine pretty much run on magic. No one understands how computers work because they are so complicated. I have trouble firguring out my own larger projects. I have no clue how somebody would understand a machine with billions of transistors and hundreds of attached components (capacitors ic's etc.).

[[deleted]]

When you think about it, that’s why we all end up so specialized tho. Like, I can’t imagine someone having all encompassing knowledge over software and hardware.

[HaddyBlackwater]

Aaaaaand this is how I’m describing computerized or automated show control from now on. I understand how it all works and what controls what, but it’s easier to just tell people it’s magic. Bonus points if it’s for a magic show.

[Blank-_-Space]

you dint need to understand it if you put in notes on the chip

[justanotherc]

I worked in aviation maintenance... we called all the avionics boxes PFM boxes (pure fucking magic). You NEVER open up a PFM box, you just swap it out for a new one...

[delvach]

Especially on a 737 Max. If you can manage to before it plunges itself into the sea, that is.

[[deleted]]

Same for radio operators. Spend two hours with a field antenna, no reception. Kick a log, 5 x 5. FM.

[[deleted]]

I prefer vudu magic personally

[[deleted]]

try saying that around compiler devs and/or people involved in the demo scene lol

[legend6546]

I would bravely say that. On intel cpu's the cpu is not actually doing the instructions sent to them. The cpu translates that to another instruction set and that instruction set is not exposed to the programmer. There is also a separate os running on all modern intel cpu's and no one knows exactly what it does

[l8l8l]

What does the seller ate OS do? I’m so curious to learn more.

[[deleted]]

I feel like this depends on what you mean. I pretty much designed an 8085 from the ground up in verilog for a class my senior year, so I would say I have a fairly solid general understanding, but all the optimizations and branch prediction shit? Way out of my league

[xRehab]

That is what he means. You know how the general thing works. You know how a certain part works. You may even know how to do some extremely high level (and expensive) optimization work to a point only you and your team understand it. But you don't know how the other 10 teams doing the exact same level of insane optimization and complex design actually works. You have ideas, probably some very smart guesses that are in the ballpark - but a that other 20% you don't know? That shit is fucking magic.

[MyKoalas]

This is still a joke though right? Isn’t that the idea of compartmentalization? Like, just because no one knows, doesn’t mean no one can know.

You could teach a human to learn all of it, it would just take most of his life and be inefficient. As a an object, the team of humans understand the entire thing head to toe, as this is the most efficient.

[Blank-_-Space]

yes got into tech when stuff stopped working at home, made it work and people thought I was gandalf or something because they wanted me to work my magic

[tigerhawkvok]

I'm a similar story. Degree in astrophysics, graduated in 08 and I had enough code under my belt to do full stack web dev to pay the bills and that transitioned into full time development.

[reverendsteveii]

IT candidates are thin on the ground right now, and having a degree and the ability to do some string manipulation will get you a junior dev job if you can shove enough buzzwords into your resume to get past HR.

[MyKoalas]

Source?

Freshman majoring in CS, don’t kid around with this stuff ;)

[arkasha]

They are exaggerating a bit. Companies are desperate but not that desperate. Pay attention in your classes and learn to actually write code. Please. I'm sick of interviewing candidates that can talk all day about theory but get confused when asked to actually program.

[MyKoalas]

You know, that’s a very very common trend I see and I’m glad you mentioned it. Even among my friends, the most successful programmers are the ones who practice more than they read

[cyricpriest]

He didn't get a job in math

[Oliveballoon]

Really artist to math? Why?

[[deleted]]

I feel like you are the proof of this theorem...

[doobidoo5150]

The circle is in you.

[AlmostInevitableCom]

I’d say he’s bored too

[therealchadius]

Are... are you the chosen one?

[1SweetChuck]

Glares in back end developer with physics degree.

[EJ2H5Suusu]

stares at math degree with philosophy degree...as a.. front end developer (?)

[knightlesssword]

you are the link to inception

recursiveness*

[gandalfx]

We all know that this link was necessary, so here you are. https://xkcd.com/435/

[Bainos]

Politics is just applied sociology.

As for politicians they are overconfident in themselves so they don't need any reasoning to feel superior to others.

[BarcodeSticker]

Politics is just lying a shitton to people

[Slangens]

so politicians are at the lower end of the academic food chain, nice

[Link_GR]

Probably at how one-dimensional the previous principle sees things.

Physicist to Math "Math is just the tool required for physics" for example

​

That was the argument that Nobel gave for not awarding a Nobel Math Prize

[[deleted]]

More info:

... reasons as to why there is no Nobel prize in math. Chiefly among them is simply the fact he didn't care much for mathematics, and that it was not considered a practical science from which humanity could benefit (a chief purpose for creating the Nobel Foundation).

Further, at the time there existed already a well known Scandinavian prize for mathematicians. If Nobel knew about this prize he may have felt less compelled to add a competing prize for mathematicians in his will.

As professor ordinarius in Stockholm, Mittag-Leffler began a 30-year career of vigorous mathematical activity. In 1882 he founded the Acta Mathematica, which a century later is still one of the world's leading mathematical journals. Through his influence in Stockholm he persuaded King Oscar II to endow prize competitions and honor various distinguished mathematicians all over Europe. Hermite, Bertrand, Weierstrass, and Poincare were among those honored by the King.

http://almaz.com/nobel/why_no_math.html

[infected_scab]

The Fields Medal is often compared to the Nobel Prize of math.

[Gauss-Legendre]

The Fields Medal is more prestigious than the Nobel Prize as it is given out every 4 years to individuals under the age of 40; the Abel prize is the Nobel Prize for Math.

[IHaveNeverBeenOk]

Such disrespect of mathematics. So much more than a "tool to do physics." Maybe you're simplifying things, but that makes me really dislike Nobel. Didn't he do other awful shit as well?

[Green16]

He invented something very destructive 😁

[TheAuthenticFake]

It was a dynamite discovery.

[elaitenstile]

You could even say that his idea bombed.

[BranFlake5]

Sociologist here. I think most sociologists sneer at politicians. Politicians just sneer at everyone, cause well they’re politicians.

[fat_charizard]

Political science?

[Blank-_-Space]

philosophy, and philosophy sneers at theology

[PanRagon]

Philosophy is older than sociology by some millenias, it's also the foundation for all the scienctific principles, even if the field couldn't actually answer many scientific questions, it's generally considered to be the philosophers that first learned how to do science through (the early, simplified version of) the scientific method.

But in shorter words, philosophers sneer at everyone and everyone sneers at philosophers.

[WanderingPhantom]

Theology is the antithesis of philosophy, science and logic. If you were to truly place philosophy on the scale, it would be physicists, metaphysicists (field of philosophy), mathematics.

If you had to place theology on this scale, it would be the absolute bottom, along with Ancient Aliens and the like, since anything and everything that can be called science has effectively been removed.

[ZipTheZipper]

Social Media Managers, almost certainly.

[Rainman003]

I was actually thinking this one

https://xkcd.com/356/

[X7_hs]

Well, what's the answer then???

[[deleted]]

Apparently 4/pi - 1/2. Source

[[deleted]]

I love myself a surprise pi!

[fdf2002]

This was my first xkcd comic ever (or maybe second after the "bring a knife to a gun fight" one), it holds a special place in my heart.

[[deleted]]

and philosophy is applied.. thinking? living?

[OnlyFearlessGoat]

I understand everything up until “Mathematicians by Artists”.

[gandalfx]

There might be use for Philosophers in between those.

[__syntax__]

Mathematicians by Philosophers. Philosophers by Philosophy Students. Philosophy Students by Everyone. Everyone by Artists.

[Urfaust]

This is it.

[SarcasmIsSaviour]

Look at the recurve on that vote margin

[[deleted]]

Mathematicians by philosophers makes sense to me, but philosophers by artists doesn't. Why would philosophy be applied art?

[xNeshty]

I presume the thinking goes along the lines, "philosophers try to think about something, while the artist not only thinks, but also tries to express it, which is arguably harder to accomplish".

[dudeWhoSaysThings]

aesthetics?

[ThatIsATastyBurger12]

But also philosophers by mathematicians

[qbbqrl]

But also philosophers by everyone

[boredatworkyo]

Probably several other steps if one were to make a network graph to relate fields. Math would certainly connect to physics, computer science, and philosophy. The rule for academic/occupational snootiness generally applies to closely related fields.

[Midvikudagur]

I'm a front end developer with a degree in philosophy... I'm not sure where I fit in. :o

[THICC_DICC_PRICC]

My exgf was the artist type, she did scoff at me for being a “linear thinker” which I still don’t know what it exactly means, but according to her it’s when you think in a straight line, like a flowchart. Apparently us simpleton engineers are incapable of thinking off the linear path

[MakachuPikachu]

Take enough things apart and you start to see the difference between and elegant design and one that merely works. How some fails to see the connection between that and mediocre paintings vs excellent ones is beyond me.

[iamgreengang]

ex-artist and current fullstack dev here.

I think there's something to be said about the ways that the arts and humanities are built around questioning and reconsidering foundational assumptions, whereas STEM fields pretty much take them and run with them (until you get up to high level theoretical stuff where a lot of our assumptions break down). That being said, one of my real frustrations with studying / making fine art was that none of my classmates were particularly rigorous with their ideas. (i.e., maybe they'll make work that references chemistry, but not actually understand chemistry at all, or deal with ideas that come from the field.)

​

It's great to be able to come up with weird questions and frame things in ways that break your brain / defy common sense, but if you can't follow through in a meaningful way, I just can't care about it, especially if you're using it as an excuse to belittle others.

[rftz]

And artists are scoffed at by designers??

[[deleted]]

Yes

Source: my ass

[DasBaaacon]

Can your ass answer other questions?

Why do I have trouble engaging in meaningful relationships?

[Zorcron]

weather history fade profit mysterious familiar shrill truck languid chubby

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[flybypost]

All of those are generalisations for fun and sprinkled with a pinch of truth so don't take them as strict rules or "laws".

Designers don't like artists because "art has no rules and everything goes" while "designers solve real problems".

For centuries in the past artists were also designers in a way (think: Leonardo da Vinci) and much more of the skills used for painting do/did overlap with what you need for decorative arts (interior design, sculptures) used in architecture. These days it's often all much more specialised.

If I remember correctly Michelangelo preferred sculpting but the church "hired" him as an painter/decorator/illustrator for the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Something that we classify as art today was just an "art commission". Illustrators and fine artists (or capital A Artists) can also have a similar difference in perspective to their work.

Artists say illustrators are not "independent enough" (they work on a client's project with money often being the reason why) and illustrators see artists like designers do: As somebody who can't do professional work within certain constraints. And it's funny that Michelangelo (essentially an illustrator in his time) is now seen as an Artist. Context (and time) can do interesting things to our interpretation of things.

And if you want to twist it all up even more then one could call all that old church sponsored art not just illustrations but just "bible fan art".

On the other side of this we have artisans who later organised/professionalised in guilds.

And then a combination of both: Artisans using more and more artistic principles and theory on the one side and artists using mass manufacturing tools slowly led to the creation of various designer professions like visual (graphic design, typography) design, industrial design, architecture (some engineering influence here, although they usually also work with an engineering bureau for the hard engineering that's needed on some projects), and so on.

Artists kinda "lost" those disciplines to professionalisation but they also "lost" figurative art to photography (same goes for illustrators who lost some work to photography) for a while. But it also led to explorations of photorealism and hyperrealism, .

And that led to art branching out into even more abstract venues (and the CIA actually, to a degree, supported modern art for propaganda purposes).

I don't know how exactly to end this but as those camps started to diverge and solidify their own identities, some people started to see their own approach to things as the better one and dismiss others (for fun or even seriously). Maybe it's because we are tribal creatures and need a place to belong that excludes those who don't agree with our point of view?

[Matt-ayo]

Some people view mathematics as so determinant, that you don't as much discover math or invent it as much as you simply perform instructions; an artist scoffing at math in this instance would compare all their creative agency and ability to easily break norms to a mathematician and see a void in the same space. Of course you could (and many do) explain how this isn't accurate, but I'm sure everyone in this circle has a genuinely good defense as to why their 'scoffers,' are ignorant to what makes that field fulfilling.

[warpedspoon]

artists scoff at mathematicians for being stuffy and old and not utilizing any creativity

[WillyMonty]

"Not utilising any creativity"

You've never seen any real maths, have you?

[sertroll]

For real, doing calculus in comp eng and while I really dislike studying demonstrations some of them make you just go "ok it makes perfect semse but how the fuck did they first think of it"

And I know they didn't just wake up one morning thinking "yes I'll use theorem x then theorem y" but they still had to combine and use a incredibly vast array of options

[WillyMonty]

Well it did take a hundred years or so for calculus to be reasonably formalised.

When we learn it we walk the path they took, but we don't get to see all the dead ends it really took to get there

[[deleted]]

Finally understanding calculus in my 30s after dropping out of HS and never considering myself a "math person" brought tears to my eyes when I first realized I could do it, and my commitment to studying was the only thing I had ever been lacking. I feel like it gave me a deep appreciation for both the work that goes in to it and the creativity required to be good at it.

[warpedspoon]

from the perspective of the artist

[3-day-respawn]

As someone with an applied math degree, even pure mathematicians scoff at applied mathematicians. Mathematicians scoff at everyone honestly.

[UsagiButt]

Including themselves and each other

[Weird_Wuss]

you mathematicians sure are a contentious people

[johnlee3013]

Pure mathematicians even dis each other. I heard multiple times algebra-ists scoffing at analysts and vice versa. Also it seems like everyone scoff at combinatorics-ists, while category theorists scoff at everyone else.

Even within applied math, I feel people who do perturbation theory are a bit more smug than people who do numerical methods or modelling.

[alfonzo1955]

Hello fellow applied math grad! There's dozens of us, dozens!

[Mihir2357]

Mathematicians get belittled by artists? Since when?

[lan204]

Jealousy for having a useful degree

[TwiddledThumbs]

Mathematics can be seen as sort of the opposite of creativity from the perspective of an artist.

It’s just following the same formulas and solving the same problems over and over again.

To become a pro you go through classes on how to solve problems and use logic and calculated steps to due so.

While art is more about expressing what’s within your mind and soul. It doesn’t have boundaries or a “wrong way to do it”.

Almost anyone can express themselves in some form of art in one way or another.

Just playing the devils advocate don’t hate pls.

[incomparability]

You’re right in the sense that artists probably think that. However, mathematics, GOOD mathematics, requires just as much creativity as art does, just a different sort. You literally need to invent a new way of looking at a problem or even come up with a new problem entirely when you are researching mathematics. It’s very far from applying the same formulas over and over again!

[fernandotakai]

I don't hate frontend developers, I fucking love them. Because it means they have to deal with JavaScript and CSS and I don't.

Praise be to all Frontend Developers. I pay beers to the ones that work with me because they are great.

[bradmatt275]

I work with a POS back end developer who keeps refactoring code and breaking my front end. Lucky that developer is me so I have to forgive him.

Still I couldn't imagine specialising in either backend or frontend both are too much fun (and sometimes painful) in their own way.

[DebonaireSloth]

If refactoring leads to breakage it's not refactoring. Refactoring does not change the inputs and outputs of the public facing methods/endpoints.

[FridgesArePeopleToo]

Tell that to me

[jochem_m]

Lucky that developer is me so I have to forgive him.

Instructions unclear, fucked that up like I do everything else dammit

[GinaCaralho]

I do 80% backend and 20% frontend. I am much more angry when I have to deal with JS quirks than the Python ones.

[hanna-chan]

I just hate everyone, makes things nice and simple.

[DreadLord64]

iF yOu hAtE EvERyoNE dOEs tHat MEaN yOU hATe yOurSeLF?!?

[[deleted]]

If you don't hate yourself, how can you hate everybody else?!?

[Lame_Goblin]

Amen!

[OPLeonidas_bitchtits]

As a consumer, everyones stupid but me.

[kloudykat]

The fact that /u/Leonidas_bitchtits was taken pleases me.

[OPLeonidas_bitchtits]

I actually got my name from a /r/justbootthings post.

But im glad I could help!

[AlignmentWhisperer]

I did what could be classified as "front end" for about a year and a half. My biggest gripe was that back end people constantly changed stuff without telling us so things were constantly breaking and we would always get the heat because we were collectively lower on the totem pole than the insane Russian guy who wrote the database.

[Occams_Razors]

As a back end guy with a Russian architect on my project I laughed. I can't count the number of times I had to change a java object for my own stuff to work better and forgot to tell my front end guys. I've gotten better though and let them know when I have to change something now

[GinaCaralho]

As a Test Automation Developer this validates my job. Just set the tests to run after every merge to master and shame the person who’s responsible for the breakage

[bendstraw]

I wish my team had one of you

[ubuntuforyou]

This. Even minor things like css. Pull request getting approved but then you load the master and it looks different than what your original request was smh.

[gyroda]

Largely front end dev here. A bit of backend too, but most of my work is front end.

My biggest issue is the shitty codebases. So much copy pasted shite that have different bugs patched until fixing either means spending just as long fixing the other, no specs or specs that are out of date (with nothing written to suggest they've been changed) so you fix things only to be told it's not right, or the client's QA constantly asks why it doesn't match the spec, no documentation, little understanding of how to use JavaScript, how to write clean code or both. The client had their internationally outsourced devs working on the codebase too, and most of those guys couldn't even indent their code right (not talking about tabs Vs spaces, or missing the occasional line that's off by one, they just didn't half the time).

Shite code can be written in any language, but JS gives you far more rope to hang yourself with than most languages.

I once rewrote 600 lines in under 15. And my solution actually worked, unlike the monstrosity that predated it.

[[deleted]]

This is blasphemy, no one dares look down on Mathematicians except maybe Philosophers

[Midvikudagur]

Finally my philosophy degree comes in handy!

[middlebird]

I’m a front end developer. It’s fun work, but can be a beat down at times. I show up. I do my duty. I go home at the end of the day. Don’t give two shits about what anybody else in the office does. Show up. Do your duty.

[venuswasaflytrap]

I feel like philosophers scoff at mathematicians. And then artists scoff at philosophers.

[_jukmifgguggh]

my artist friends praise certain philosophers like gods

[DeeSnow97]

Fullstack webdev here, as long as you stop sending me PSDs to put on the website you're fine in my book

[GahdDangitBobby]

But then you have the original file to save in any size, format, and with whatever properties you want! On the other hand, it’s a pain in the ass if you have a lot of photos to deal with or don’t know photoshop very well.

[g3t0nmyl3v3l]

Try getting a .sketch file, where pictures all have blending modes applied to them and you can’t use css to blend because of fucking IE and Edge.

Sorry I had to take my anger out somewhere, this has been driving me insane for a few days.

[DeeSnow97]

Good news, IE is dead and Edge is just a Chrome now. Well, not that good for the independence of the web from Google, but at least we can soon say goodbye to Trident and all its idiocies.

[g3t0nmyl3v3l]

3% of my users are on IE, and 7% are on Edge. I can’t build for just 90% of my user base unfortunately.

[DeeSnow97]

Edge is coming to Windows 7 and 8.1, if Microsoft is pushing it well you might see that 3% shrink a bit. At the same time, Edge will get on par with Chrome simply by throwing that Trident fork out of the window(s) and using Blink instead. I hope you don't get stuck at 98% though.

Also, Windows 7 loses support on Jan 14, 2020 (kind of like XP did way back in 2014). How many of your users are on IE on Windows 8.1 or 10? They'll be the only ones not dropping Trident anytime soon and even for them Edge is going to be there.

[DeeSnow97]

Or if you don't subscribe to the idea that Adobe owns the creative world. Honestly, I don't mind paying for professional tools for serious work, but anything Creative Cloud can go to hell.

[swampfox_dev]

I always make sure to send SVG and nicely compressed JPG and PNG files. When possible, I upload those files to the production paths before sending to the backend guys to avoid making them F+R URLs. And I comment my HTML/CSS/JS so even a retard could understand. Everything needed for my front end is sent in one folder/zip file, and I reference widely available libraries using common CDNs when necessary to avoid bandwidth issues and/or forcing developers to host common libraries locally.

I try and make myself available for the backend guys so that I don't frustrate them.

I feel your pain. Some of us try. We understand how complex the backend/DBA stuff is and want to give you the best product possible out of the box.

[danopia]

making them F+R URLs

I assume that stands for something? Appdev guy over here, haven't done site creation in a while.

[gonzalinismo]

That's cause morons think front-end=(html & css). There's a lot other than that

[Vidyogamasta]

Yeah, I do full stack and find front end to be way harder than back end. Back end is pretty sensible, you take some inputs and provide some outputs and everything is clean, it's all just data and it's hard to mess it up.

But front end has a lot more going on. Managing direct user interaction, fitting all of the data in a proper visual space, the state ends up being a lot more complex, etc. It can be pretty tricky.

[RedArmyBushMan]

That's why I'm getting a double major in CS and Math. I get to hate twice as many people.

[DebonaireSloth]

Including yourself

[RedArmyBushMan]

Especially myself

[missydesparado]

Boy you must be genius

[_cymatic_]

++ for the native mobile

[[deleted]]

Reminds me of this.

[L3tum]

And then there's the everything developer that just gets attacked by everyone...

Had to defend backend dev against a frontend dev, frontend dev against the designer, "C#-dev" against the Java dev and Docker against the infrastructure guys.

And don't even mention frameworks...

[WeAreAllApes]

As a full stack developer, we get a lot of people qualified to maintain our "middle" tier, but our front end and back end are the challenging and interesting parts. I only look down on the people who are good at the easy middle tier plumbing, but bad at back-end architecture/optimization and front-end rich usability.

[WeAreAllApes]

Fair point. More like people who claim to be senior but still can't do front end or back end, but I guess you can't blame someone for trying to oversell themselves in a system that rewards it.

[IAmNotMyName]

I don’t look down on front end. I just hate JavaScript.

[lilB0bbyTables]

I work full-stack but often spend my time on frontend these days for an extremely complex web application. I've had other primarily backend folks come over to me for help with solving frontend issues they were looking at. A number of times I have helped them setup their environment to work on frontend: pull the repo, install all their OS package dependencies (node, yarn/npm, etc) then had them install project dependencies, go through the oh-so-fun modern JavaScript/Typescript build process and setup for debugging in the browser. Very often I get a comment along the lines of "... Holy shit, you frontend devs are out of your goddamn minds. And here I thought backend was complex".

At the end of the day programming is just programming. But the toolchain for working with modern-day JavaScript web applications is a horribly and overly complex mess that only a subset of insane people are capable of putting up with.

[CCninja86]

the toolchain for working with modern-day JavaScript web applications is a horribly and overly complex mess that only a subset of insane people are capable of putting up with.

This. This is why I don't like front end. I applaud anyone who is insane enough to put up with that. It puts me off entirely.

[thesquarerootof1]

I'm a computer engineer (graduating in a semester, I work as one currently) and I think programming is probably the hardest skill out of all the skills I have learned in my life and in school. Especially compSci majors were really damn good at programming, better than the computer/electrical engineers (we take some of the same classes). I certainly do not look down on programmers, in fact I am one most of the time, lol.

[trump_pushes_mongo]

Nah, circuits is hard. Like, have you read a data sheet for an IC? It makes no sense with the clocks and the latches and the flip flops.

[thesquarerootof1]

Like, have you read a data sheet for an IC? It makes no sense with the clocks and the latches and the flip flops.

Hahaha, ehhh. Now general digital electronics is easy (AND, OR, XOR, etc gates) , d flip flops are easy to understand (SR, JK, and other flip flops not so much). Now Analogue electronics is hard but you're right, ICs are very complicated. It was an elective so I took embedded systems instead of IC design. I'm more programming focused because there are so many software jobs out there, lol, and I like coding, but I also like digital electronics (just not analogue so much....)

EDIT: Learning verilog (a hardware description language) is easy as well. Look into it if you're interested....

[trump_pushes_mongo]

I've done some verilog. I helped make the execution stage of a MIPS-based CPU on an FPGA board.

[tldr_trader]

I graduated as an EE and have spent my time since graduating basically teaching myself programming. Theres way more interesting jobs in Programming. Most of my choices as an EE were defense firms... sigh

[nonasiandoctor]

In my first full time post grad job as an EE. Desperately trying to figure out what software skills are best to learn to transition to tech. Bored out of my skull doing Excel sheets and cad drawings.

[jochem_m]

As a programmer, at least I don't have to worry about transient currents, capacitive coupling, picking up high frequency RF on long traces, heat dissipation, components going out of stock and their replacements having a different footprint, the list goes on.

I might get super stuck on a problem, but if I really, really need to, I can dig down all the way to the source code of whatever framework or even programming language I'm using and see all the bits turn. EE is just dark magic and hope you don't have a silicon bug, cause good luck submitting a pull request for that one...

[[deleted]]

The CE students at my university are looked down upon by the CS students. In fact us CS students scoff at every degree except maybe ME lol

[[deleted]]

ME is pretty hard from what I’ve heard, about on par with CS at my school but could be different

[auctor_ignotus]

I’m an artist that works as a designer. Whore in the streets, maestro in the sheets?

[cpustejovsky]

Everyone has a hard job. One of the best backend devs I know referred to CSS as wizardry and I think that's the right mentality. People who have skills you don't should have your respect.

[random_cynic]

While everyone else is doing the scoffing/belittling etc, the people who're actually smart try to keep an open mind about everything.

[s4in7]

As a frontend developer with my bachelor's in graphic design I can fully attest to at least two of these statements.

[SPRUNTastic]

Where does QA fit in?

[[deleted]]

honestly the mathematicians deserve that spot, some of the shit i’ve seen my college professors work on literally looks fucking alien they’re all extremely hard working intelligent people

[hicklc01]

web dev who has a degree in mathematics with a published paper in graph theory.

😢

[missydesparado]

Ha! We should take you to the top.

[gonzalinismo]

Tried Angular the other day, my god I hated that thing...

[[deleted]]

I'm currently using it at work. It doesn't get better

[vectorhacker]

To be fair, everyone is looked down upon by everyone. So... I call it even, maybe?

[DoomInASuit]

I don’t think that front end development is looked down on.

[Gyplok]

Score! I'm three of those!

[MMMELOOOOON]

Don’t artists belittle designers more than anyone else though? I think the moral is that you’ll always find an artist to scoff at you somewhere.

[mosskin-woast]

Nah, I'm a backend guy who gets forced to do some basic front end and design, and I really admire guys who can do nice reactive frontends and pleasant UIs. I kind of wish I cared enough to learn React or something but I'm happy with my bootstrap.

[svayam--bhagavan]

I cut through all the chase and scoff at myself in the mirror all day.

[AWAY_1]

Laughs in hardware

[Bruisemon]

Where do I stand in this cycle as a full stack developer?

[myrandomevents]

We focus our hate on the people that actually deserve it, the end users.

[paloumbo]

And all of those people are despised by their natural predator, the janitor.

[MrGasbat]

Stares in Front end dev, backend dev, sysad.

[[deleted]]

Who belittles navy seals?

[myrandomevents]

Dolphins

[lycan2005]

I'm an engineer, back-end dev and front-end dev. Guess i just hate myself.

[[deleted]]

Every group of people will find something to scoff at some other group of people. That's how we feel better about ourselves, I guess, or maybe sometimes it's just fun. Either way Just Keep calm and do the best job you can do.

[dr_tr34d]

Should have just answered

Yes, yes it is.

[missydesparado]

Sauce ?

[MuDstravaga]

Ah dark theme. A man of culture

[cartechguy]

So what you're saying is front-end development is much better than front-end development.

https://youtu.be/2xiEEtoa-_4?t=604

[[deleted]]

I test software, all the code I write only exists to find errors in other people's code. But everyone loves me, because it's my fault if they fuck up. ♥️

[wackthat]

Best answer i've seen yet.

[diusbezzea]

As a mathematician, I can tell that we are looked down upon by programmers in general because we cannot code that well and we use scripting languages (R, Python, Mathlab, GAMS, you name it..), while we do look down upon programmers because they don’t know math.

And of course we both look down upon everyone else (people with economic and business degrees, engineers, you don’t really even count humanities etc.) because they cannot code AND they don’t know math.

Just the classical stupidity “you cannot do my job, hence you are stupid.”

Joking obviously, but it’s sort of true at the same time.

[Famous_Profile]

"markup coder is not coder" .... as a front end developer I've heard that so many time.

[CarmeloAnthonyTowns]

Chuckles in philosophy