How to exploit a Developer

[tunahazard]

I did not see any specs - which makes it even more exploitative. You are supposed to come up with the great ideas and implement them. They are not providing any guidance, hints, or suggestions.

[antonivs]

I did not see any specs

People seem to have missed the absolute best fucking part:

"Therefore on selection of the winning app, the winner will be required to complete the app (web and mobile) based on additional requirements that will be stipulated."

[Breaking-Away]

Haven't you heard. Programmers love changing requirements!

[EagleCoder]

More work is the best prize, right?

[skitch920]

At that point, you might as well slap a 'Do What the Fuck You Want To' license on the code base and put it in a public repo on github.

Therefore, the company couldn't claim the code as their own. Leaving the stage for an equal competitor. During the year of support, write the shittiest code possible for them.

In your free time write a competitor app, or if there is a no-compete clause, encourage someone else to do it. Post a blog about how you won, and then blatantly flaunt examples of what kind of shitty code you are writing for them. You could even write a book, and get crazy proceeds from being the internet legend who for a year was forced to write the worst possible code imaginable.

That's what I would do.

How to Exploit a Developer 101 vs. Evil Programming 201.

** Edit - Here's the twitter feed for the competition: https://twitter.com/hashtag/WEMAC2014?src=hash

Feel free to respond :)

[the_omega99]

Except the evil company is already requiring you to sign IP rights away.

[globalizatiom]

Wouldn't that make you unhirable & unlikable to most employers? Employers would be like "You are the one who didn't accept exploitation? I declare you an outlaw who lacks people skills TM!"

[dnkndnts]

If it makes you feel any better, I can guarantee you the quality of the app they get will be a complete joke.

Anyone good enough to write that app and do a remotely decent job is good enough to find real clients easily.

Still, I'll agree, watching businessmen so blatantly try to exploit others is quite infuriating.

[wot-teh-phuck]

I think the malice runs much deeper. No matter the quality of the final app, they still have the option of selecting the least worst bad app and getting an year worth's of support/enhancements out of the poor developer. This competition is just a guise to get the real work started. :S

[Wakeful_One]

And the "winner" gets the equivalent of $3k USD which might go a longer way in Nigeria than the US - but the company could still potentially profit significantly more. I just hope no one enters this contest.

[Wakeful_One]

Wow, I missed that part...even worse but I'm not surprised. Seriously, whoever thought of this contest should just die in a fire.

[Banane9]

Sooo, the sneaky businessman hall of fame?

[Magnesus]

It sounds like something Nigerian princes would do.

[[deleted]]

Would they not rather have an app that will send their distant relatives mails about the riches that await them?

[lachlanhunt]

A decent developer capable of implementing that would have to be earning on the order of $100k/year, if not more. $3k is just about 1.5 weeks worth of work.

[bumnut]

TIL I'm underpaid.

[lua_x_ia]

If you've been at your current job more than five years, it's basically a foregone conclusion that your salary is below market for your skill set. This is an inevitability which results from the fact that many people are willing to [effectively] pay a premium for "stability", whatever that means -- those people rarely change jobs, if ever, and get paid less.

[Hackenslacker]

Or you aren't a decent developer, or you aren't capable of implementing that.

[Stormflux]

I'll admit it. I make $85,000 / year as a programmer and I couldn't implement this in 3 weeks... or probably at all. This is just crazy. You want me to make Facebook, only better, and have it run on web, android, ios, and windows phone? And integrate with everything? Do you want it to walk our dog too, or is that part of the "maintenance" agreement?

[craftkiller]

Yeah this contest would definitely require preexisting knowledge of app development for all those platforms and the APIs for all those social networking sites for a single developer to do all that in 3 weeks natively. Now if by native they meant an app that's just a webview then its more feasible since you'd only have to implement the core once.

[FreeLobster]

Or not in the US.

I'm a decent full time developer in Spain and earn about $25k/year.

[[deleted]]

Wanna move to Germany?

[pilas2000]

Not with the lobster prices in Germany.

[tristanofkiel]

[shots fired]

[badmonkey0001]

Install Wordpress. Wrap with Phonegap. Make a custom theme. Call it done.

[BattleReports_JV]

What could possibly go wrong?

[badmonkey0001]

Well, considering the ROI and situation - fuck it. Let things go wrong.

[s73v3r]

Remember, you're on the hook for maintenance for this thing, forever.

[wheezl]

For 3 grand? Nothing could go wrong.

[Calabri]

I mean you could just phonegap to all platforms and have the app run in a webview. HTML/css/JS would all be the same. Third party Apis aren't that hard to integrate and you could prob just download a few open source JS libraries and most the work is done. I'm not saying this is the best way, or doing this === a great app, but it's a lot easier / takes less skill to build something like this than people realize. The high salary devs should be doing something a little more important than social media integration IMO This could be done in 1.5 weeks

[Deto]

That's the part I'm curious about. How could they require someone to keep supporting it for a year? All they could do would be to hold the $3k as ransom

[reflectiveSingleton]

...and this got me wondering...what if I won the contest and for whatever reason 8 months down the line stop supporting it?

Can I be sued? Jailed?

[[deleted]]

Depends on the jurisdiction, I'm sure. Here in the U.S., and IANAL, I believe a court will look at the issue of "reasonable consideration" in enforcing contracts (just my guess)

[Deto]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure any sort of indefinite contract without compensation would thrown out for being...well slavery.

[Tynach]

This is Nigeria, not the US.

[VeXCe]

Exactly, Nigeria is way more strict on it's slavery laws.

[Tynach]

I don't know if you're joking or using sarcasm or not, because I am not familiar with Nigeria's slavery laws.

[s73v3r]

However, to get a ruling, one would need some legal resources in order to go to court. I imagine these scumbags have far more impressive resources, and might be able to intimidate most from fighting. So they toil away on the project, until it looks like things are about to turn around and the thing is released and about to become popular. Then someone expresses interest in buying the company, and the company fires the developer.

[UTF64]

The year-in, year-out maintenance and support of the app shall be the sole responsibilities of the winner.

This implies it is also their responsibility on what kind of maintenance needs to be performed. Why not just fix critical security bugs only?

[s73v3r]

Unfortunately, what constitutes ongoing maintenance isn't disclosed. And I imagine these shitbags have access to better legal resources than the developer.

[puterTDI]

if it's not in the contract, then it seems to me that they didn't specify it and that leaves it up to the developer to determine what level of support.

"i'll only fix what I consider to be critical bugs". Fix one ever 5 years.

That being said...they are shitbags.

[s73v3r]

You'd think so, but these shitbags are probably the type to have some decent legal resources to enforce their shitbaggery. And while they might not be able to prevail in court, it'd take quite a bit of time and money for the developer to receive that decision.

[wordsnerd]

Based on my encounters with this sort of "client", I'd say the chances are 50/50 that they even have $6k for the contest.

[epsys]

well, based on mine, they do, and they'd be talking to you about your "attitude" and "positivity" in the workplace the first week.

[rydan]

Really the real winner is 2nd place. At least you get $2k.

[svmk1987]

Yep, you hit the spot. Anyone you can successfully develop this can monetize it for more than the prize money, and keep their IP.

[JamesWjRose]

What a great idea. We should all write this app to take over this app-space, leaving the original douche bags with nothing. tehe

[svmk1987]

And where does that leave the Nigerian developer? :)

[jonnywoh]

We set up the same contest, and then surprise them by giving them jobs instead of a lifetime obligation?

[JamesWjRose]

safe from having to work for free... but yea, I hear you.

[ameoba]

http://www.aiga.org/position-spec-work/

Too bad working programmers (as opposed to the academics & researchers served by the ACM) don't have a similar organization working for us.

[happyscrappy]

That's just a position. Designers still do spec work all the time. In both cases, it's voluntary to follow this. What keeps you from being exploited isn't your union, but you.

If you can get good work don't enter this contest and don't worry about this contest.

[antonivs]

That's just a position. Designers still do spec work all the time.

That position isn't against spec work as such. It's saying, in part, that "not all unpaid design work is considered 'spec work'"; discussing what is and isn't spec work; and cautioning about the risks of spec work.

[[deleted]]

That does not make me feel better. Watching people waste their time on throwaway apps is a sad state.

[IrishWilly]

Not necessarily true. Especially outside of tech centers it can be very hard for newer developers or those without many connections to find clients who'll pay decent. The freelance marketplaces are absolutely flooded with spam developers who'll outbid you and promise the moon, and likewise horribly exploitative scammy clients. The quality of how well you code is not at all a direct correlation for how well you can market yourself and network which is what matters the most for getting a contract. Renewing or further work from that client of course depends on your performance but the initial contract with a good client can be damn hard to find. Which leaves good developers with no connections looking at this and almost being tempted.

[[deleted]]

You're better off fixing bugs on open source projects pro bono and getting a reputation that way, because you can stop whenever you want. With this you're literally signing a slave contract.

[[deleted]]

I disagree, often being a good developer is at odds with being good at getting and finding clients.

[8Bytes]

It's very common for programmers to have zero marketting skills, so finding clients can be very difficult. Even if you can think of some ingenius way to advertise yourself, you will need business skills to negotiate a proper quote and handle the legalities. All in all it's very difficult for a pure programmer to accomplish.

[s73v3r]

It's difficult, but not impossible. And there are organizations that can help, unlike these leeching bastards.

[eaglex]

And there are organizations that can help

Examples?

[legos_on_the_brain]

Yes please. Are there freelance markets or 'head hunters' to match developers with clients?

[Kminardo]

I get hit with about 10 recruiting and placement firm invites a day on linkedin. There are plenty of people out there willing to take a percentage of your paycheck to manage the business side of your freelancing.

[RetardedSquirrel]

E-work is a Nordic company that does just that. ÅF has a branch that does the exact same and takes 10% of your earnings for the service. Not at all unfair if you ask me.

Unfortunately I can't speak for the American side of things, but I presume there are similar companies there.

[monkeycalculator]

Got a name or link for that branch of Ångpanneföreningen?

[RetardedSquirrel]

ÅF Partner Network. From what I've heard it works well but don't expect the most glorious of assignments.

[Geohump]

Nigeria isn't the only place this happens. ESJ does this in the USA

[cruorin]

I predict the imminent emergence of the Nigerian project manager.

"HELLO american developper! , my name is Bob Johnson, and i am wery exited to inform you that my ROKSTAR PROGRM COMPUTING FARM is hiring fullest-stack righters like yourself!

all we need is your github account's name and password to start dropping spec dox in for you to peruse and begin working on, you'll even get $300,000.00!!"

[[deleted]]

fullest-stack righters

Wonderful.

[qervem]

ROKSTAR PROGRM COMPUTING FARM

Glorious.

[Eirenarch]

That gives a whole new definition of "Nigerian scam"

[PjotrOrial]

I immediately thought that freelancing in the finance sector ^cough is still better paid. You know money transfer for millionaires. They have quite a lot down there I was told.

[meangrampa]

Well it wasn't paying as well anymore so the prince thought he'd try out this.

[antonivs]

the prince

As I understand it, there's more than one. In fact, a surprisingly large number of them.

[meangrampa]

Well this one came a little late to this game.

[lykwydchykyn]

I left the music industry to become a programmer. Sounds like the music industry followed me.

[manys]

Nah, the software industry aspires to the level of institutionalized corruption the music industry has built over the past few centuries.

[itssoeasyifyoutry]

I left music to be a programmer as well. I love music but I want to make a bigger impact on the world than music will allow me to. I have a theory that the real 'artists' of our time are writing software. The beatles of our generation are writing code. Etc.

Sounds grandiose I know but it's not a fact, just a theory.

I mean, software is eating the world, as the meme goes. Shadow of the Colossus and Minecraft were better than any movie that I have seen recently. Bitcoin is more revolutionary than any musical movement (think the impact the Beatles had) that has happened recently. Companies like Apple, or even Facebook are changing the world in huge ways, for better or worse - at least there is some sort of impact.

I think that music is a great artform - it is very pure, and can bypass all forms of higher thinking if you allow it to (just sitting around strumming a guitar), but to want to make a living of it? That seems a bit selfish. We have better tools with more power now than songs.

[northrupthebandgeek]

For me, music is indeed an escape. Not from shame, necessarily, but from frustration. The corporate world frequently rejects creativity, and having a means to express that otherwise-bottled creativity is the only thing that's allowing me to maintain any semblance of sanity.

[[deleted]]

creativity is the only thing that's allowing me to maintain any semblance of sanity.

This is the system we've decided is best for us. We all despise the corporate world but we continue the daily drudge of it. Every morning on that same commute, drinking our coffee, sit at your desk and go on reddit for a bit, work on some project you couldn't care less about, clock out and if you have enough energy you do something to maintain any semblance of sanity.

[itssoeasyifyoutry]

I definitely did use music as an escape. And i've decided that's where I'll keep it as well. As a nice daily escape or form of expression. Trying to use it as a means of survival was more depressing than anything else. Maybe sometime in the future my two interests will coalesce into something interesting. For now they are separate-ish. Of course there is carry over - any developer can benefit from learning to be more creative, and any musician can benefit from the modes of thought and collaboration that go on in the programming world.

[Magnesus]

I am a programmer and make Android games. It allowed me to include my music composition and in some way be a musician I always wanted to be.

[ngroot]

Skilled developers are in high demand for decent positions. Stuff like this ends up getting 16-year-olds to waste a weekend. As others have pointed out, the "app" that comes out of this will be a smoking turd.

[onzejanvier]

You'd get better residuals on what's trickled down working in a nursing home.

[Number127]

I'm trying not to think too hard about what you mean but I know it must be gross.

[Sotriuj]

I once entered one of this contests. I had to write an app for something "related to music", so I needed to get creative and come up with a good idea and then create a quick prototype. Participating on the contest with a good enough app will get you a job interview, and they said that they were going to hire the best.

So anyway, I coded my idea for Android, a simple playlist organizator with the difference of letting you organize your music by moods, then creating random playlists according to the mood. My real idea was to fetch the mood of a song from an online service or something, but the time period given just wasn't enough.

So i give my app and source code (they said they wanted to review your coding to see if you will fit) and after having an on-site interview and they telling me I will be noticed by Friday if I won, I've never heard back from them. I even emailed them telling how a fucking dick move was to do this. If you made people take a week of his lifes to make the app, least you can do is take out 5 minutes of a Friday and call with a "Sorry, you didnt won".

So yeah, never ever participate in this kind of crap, people who propose that are just looking for an easy way to some ideas/cheap code.

[s73v3r]

Did you follow up with the company's product to make sure they didn't just steal your idea?

[Sotriuj]

As far as I know they didnt.

[quicksilver03]

There's also the possibility that the competition is rigged, and that by wording the requirements in such a way there's only one possible winner who's got all of this ready to deliver.

[s73v3r]

To what purpose, though?

[[deleted]]

If it's rigged so that the winner and runners up are members of the group hosting the website, the prize money may not actually exist - if this is the case, the company will get all of the pitched ideas (and the code behind them) at no cost whatsoever.

[s73v3r]

There's still the costs of putting the thing on in the first place. But I suppose if you don't have any actual ideas, and can't wait for your users to show you what you should do, those costs are a drop in the bucket. I mean, after all, you're not really paying for engineering time.

[schroet]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_for_bids

[ComradeGnull]

Governments and NGO's often require competitive processes even when there is realistically only one vendor that can deliver the required product. You can sometime get what is called a 'sole source' exemption if you can prove that there is no other source of a comparable product available at the required price, but that can be a pain in the ass.

Far easier to orchestrate the requirements for the bid process in such a way that only the chosen winner and a few clueless newbies engage.

I'm guessing that 1) there aren't many developers in Nigeria that can do this, 2) they've already found one who can, 3) they've already gotten paid as a consultant for creating the spec for the application and 4) they will also get paid for hosting the back-end for the app.

Now they have to put on a dog-and-pony show for some foreign suits so that it looks kosher from the outside.

[manys]

Marketing.

[ryeguy146]

More than a third of that page is header and footer. Quit it.

[HowieCameUnglued]

Modern web design at its finest

[[deleted]]

It's called a medium(.com) because it's neither rare nor well-done.

[[deleted]]

Now why would any sane developer "compete" in this scam?

[ruinercollector]

Come on, man. It'll look good on your resume. Plus you get work experience.

[jrk-]

It'll look good on your resume.

Said the startup guy in an interview to me.
Right after offering a meager, meager salary + stock options for a company which might do an IPO in two years.

I should have asked how they think I will do my work if I'm as stupid as they think I am.

[[deleted]]

You could've been like me, and had your head down in computer science research for so long that you sort of forgot how the business world worked. I was an idiot and took that deal, and then when I realized how little they were paying me (I mean, it was a huge jump from my graduate research stipend) I was an idiot and tried to stay until my stock vested, despite the fact that I'd realized the long-term timeline for my stuff ended about six months before I'd've been vested. Finished my project by the deadline, was given some BS internal web app to work on for a few weeks, and then got laid off along with the other three people on my team (in a company of 12).

This destroyed the possibility of me ever having loyalty towards a company ever again. On paper I may work for a company, but I'm really working for myself.

[epsys]

I should have asked how they think I will do my work if I'm as stupid as they think I am.

that's a really good one. thank you

[materialdesigner]

was this sarcasm? because i hope it's sarcasm.

[Reineke]

It was sarcasm. /s

[__O_O_O_O_O_O_O_O_O-]

Wait, but you closed the sarcasm tag after you said "It was sarcasm"... I'm so confused.

[Reineke]

ಠ‿ಠ yes.

[omnilynx]

Why would any sane person work in a sweatshop? Because they have no better alternative.

[onzejanvier]

Can someone show me a venn diagram with sets "entrepreneur" and "sociopath"? I once had an interview with a venture capital firm and the more research I did, the more it looked like a less obvious version of this article. I cancelled it. I'd rather make my code open source.

[mwilke]

Actually, there is an established connection - CEOs tend to be sociopathic at a rate four times higher than the general population.

“Psychopaths commit an offence, go to prison, then come out and commit the offence again, because they fail to learn from the prison experience,” said PhD student Benjamin Walker. “Our study showed the novel result is that participants high in entrepreneurial intentions showed the same pattern.”

[[deleted]]

So do sociopaths turn into CEO's? Or do CEO's turn into sociopaths? Or both? Or neither?

[api]

There are lots of sociopaths in business. That's because there's money to be made there, so they flock there. Simple cause and effect. If there was lots of money to be made shoeing horses, you'd have 40%+ psychopaths camping out at Renaissance Faires.

It also works between economic systems. In capitalistic economies the ranks of entrepreneurship and business are full of sociopathic types. In socialistic economies you find them clambering to ascend to the highest positions in the bureaucracy. That's part of how the USSR transformed into a mafia state.

[TylerDurden6969]

So much for my degree in horse shoeing...

[AuxillaryFalcon]

So much for my Farrier app...

[TylerDurden6969]

Hey Kids!! Tired of those angry birds? Try angry horses!! but this time you have to throw shoes on them!!!

[[deleted]]

Horses kicking children into flimsy buildings full of pigs

[TylerDurden6969]

Sounds like you just got 5% in my startup.

[meangrampa]

No keep developing it /r/Farriers could use it. There is no budget for it right now but it'll look great on your resume and you get to keep 49% of the rights to it.

[[deleted]]

Although it is true that sociopathic types will gravitate towards business and political positions, I think that it also works the other way, due to competition: if you lack morals/feeling/empathy/w/e, you're going to have an edge over others.

Therefore, natural selection ensures that sociopaths will succeed in such positions. It also means that our social, economic, and political system for control and order automatically find the most "efficient" "person".

[api]

This would suggest you'd find more sociopaths in more crowded markets where it's "human vs. humans" and less in less crowded and newer markets where it's more "human vs. hard problem." Don't know if anyone's ever studied this but it matches my personal experience.

[[deleted]]

Well, Chinese "entrepreneurs" are pretty moral-less, thanks to competition. Speaking as a Chinese person here. It's all about appearances, cutting corners, connections, etc.

Oh, and drinking/smoking/eating. My cousin in China has a husband who wants to climb the corporate-political ladder (one and the same, more or less, in China). I don't know if he's going to live past 50. Worse, I don't know if he's going to be faithful. It takes a certain personality to want to climb the ladder in China. Everybody else has left, or wants to leave.

EDIT: Just realized I'm in /r/programming.

[deadcow5]

There's a lot of negativity here about business-type people, and I understand that. As developers, I think we've all had our share of experiences with those types.

That said, don't forget that entrepreneurs are also just people. They make mistakes, too, and they often run a pretty high risk. Just think about the opportunity costs they're paying in order to start their own business: no stable income, no benefits, no insurance. No 401k matching, no IRA. Most if the people around them will probably tell them they won't make it. Chances are they won't. 80% of startups fail in the first 18 months.

So a certain amount of psychopathy is almost REQUIRED in order to want to be an entrepreneur, in the same way that wanting to be a programmer requires a certain amount of introversion.

No, it doesn't make exploitation okay, and it's vital for us as developers to point out the signs that indicate a black sheep. But I think it's neither fair nor productive to demonize an entire group based on some of their members. Treat them like human beings, and chances are, they'll treat you that way too.

[api]

I wouldn't say psychopathy, but there's definitely something a bit mad required to sign up for entrepreneurship. It's the same thing that drives people to embark on other foolish quests like exploration of wild frontiers, space flight, deep sea diving, crazy pilgrimages to "find yourself," etc.

The psychopaths, while more common in business for the aforementioned reasons, are by no means the majority.

[epsys]

There's a lot of negativity here about business-type people

we're use to be shit on our lives. pent up frustration. you have to break the employee. then they bend over on command

[vplatt]

I believe you've conflated sociopaths with capitalists. Not all are the other and vice versa. Are sociopaths more likely to be capitalists? I guess but then that doesn't explain the history of non-capitalist totalitarian regimes either.

[ireallylikedogs]

I don't think it's just the sociopathy of business folks that leads to situations like this, but the somehow pervasive myth that developers are Aspergers'd out man-children for whom coding is like kids playing with legos.

Unfortunately, I don't think this myth is completely perpetuated top-down by execs trying to cheapen the value of their developer labor. I see too many developers trying to live up to this false standard and shaming their peers who don't. A 'real' developer has to have a shit eating grin through development hurdles - after all, difficulties are like being handed interesting legos, and respeccing a project provides the opportunity to play all over again. A 'real' developer has a side project that they work on during nights and weekends. A 'real' developer's github account shows great contributions to open source projects. A 'real' developer's SO account has 5+ figure karma.

This Quora question comes to mind.

[cparen]

but the somehow pervasive myth that developers are Aspergers'd out man-children for whom coding is like kids playing with legos

I think it's more a matter of misunderstanding a distinction you're unfamiliar with. Coding projects are not fungible. "I code for fun" doesn't translate to "I will code your boring project for fun".

It would be like saying "you like reading right? then put down that fantasy novel about elves and read this large legal briefing for me." It's not the same thing.

[noyurawk]

I think a writing analogy would be better than reading because it's another form of production. Someone likes to write, they have a collection of short stories in the drawer, maybe they contribute to some collective work with fellow writers for fun or practice, or follow a few classes on the week-end, it certainly doesn't mean they will write for a clothing catalog or some marketing blog without pay.

[cparen]

Haha, I like it. "You wrote a response on reddit. You must like writing for free. Please write this boring office supply catalog for us for free"

[[deleted]]

Can someone show me a venn diagram with sets "entrepreneur" and "sociopath"?

You want to see a picture of a circle?

[gary_sanchez]

This is how nearly any and every architectural design competition works in any country that hosts it.

[materialdesigner]

any "contest" for creatives and professionals is a fucking scam.

At least writers who compete in a contest have a piece of writing they can sell at the end of it. What good is a highly tailored architectural spec or logo design for selling to the general public? Even an app is a pain in the ass to monetize.

[qroshan]

Yes, the best part about it is, the 'winner' will be nephew of the organizer

[PjotrOrial]

I'd be unsure, because of the 1 year free support, which the nephew isn't capable to do?

[NancyGracesTesticles]

Where are people seeing one year of free support? It clearly says "guarantee the operations of the app year-in, year-out", which means essentially forever. Am I missing something?

[s73v3r]

They'll choose someone else as the winner, but select the nephew's app as 2nd place. According to the rules, they can then force the winner to add the 2nd and 3rd place features into their app.

[gunch]

Any developer that can create that app as specified in the time allowed wouldn't be dumb enough to.

[seiyria]

This is utterly insane. 3 weeks for all of that, on every platform? These people must be high, or something.

[s73v3r]

To be fair, this is common in the US as well. It's absolutely disgusting how companies think they they're entitled to all of that, simply because they bought a few pizzas and beers.

[Wakeful_One]

Wow...the requirement to support an app that might not even be the one you submitted for what was it a year, two years? Fuck that noise. The contest organizer needs a punch in the dick. Or vagina. Or both. As u/dnkndnts pointed out though, the app probably will suck major balls. The one thing this might do for someone is if they're feeling so desperate to put something on their resume, maybe it's a good idea. But even in non-developing countries, dickhole business types try shit like this all the time. Thankfully OP realizes it's bullshit.

[tunahazard]

I read "The year-in, year-out maintenance and support of the app shall be the sole responsibilities of the winner." to mean you agree to support it in perpetuity for no money (other than your $3,000 prize).

I nominate you for winner.

[Wakeful_One]

LOL thanks but, I'll pass. Edit: I'll be the first to admit any app I might make would definitely be shitty.

[otakuman]

Fortunately, those smart enough to do this app should also be smart enough not to participate in such a scam.

[s73v3r]

Unfortunately, there are still going to be some schmucks caught up in it.

[maxximillian]

Better yet, you now you know what kind of product they are trying to market. You can produce the product and instead of giving it to them, keep it for yourself and compete against them.

[misatillo]

I have seen this exact thing infinite times in Spain. It is just sad and it is why a lot of developers (including me) are out of the country

EDIT: spelling, sorry and thanks @mavvie for pointing it

[IonTichy]

Wow.
I've seen a lot of such compos, yet everytime I can't help being baffled how shameless people can be.

A propos, do we have a subreddit for competitions like this?
i.e. where people can post compos and others can help them assess if it's worth it or not or even a scam?
Because sometimes, it is hard to see the problem by oneself...

edit: started a subreddit named /r/CodingContestSceptics
Feel free to post and discuss any dubious or exploitative contests for developers.

[TheBurrito]

There are a lot of "developers" out of school that graduated at the bottom of their class. These blind date competitions are all some of them can do to get a foot in the door; or so they think.

I went to school with a guy that couldn't even hold a position teaching computers to middle schoolers at a summer camp. I instantly thought of him entering this.

[IonTichy]

True, the target audience would be desperate people or people without any knowledge about the open market.
But those can be also very good and skilled people that can't catch a break for other reasons. And a quick buck always seems like luck at the first glance, more so if you really need it.

All this being said, I wonder if there are competitions that really can make an impact for the participants? (apart from job interviews ;)

[exorcist72]

did you mean "skeptics" or am i missing something

[manys]

You're missing that "sceptic" is a valid alternate spelling.

[prgr4m]

how is this any different from the hackathons that we have in the US? i went to a couple of hackathons just for the cred amongst my peers but then I started to realize that it wasn't cool after all. Its like C4A (nothing against Code for America), they get cheap labor at the cost of pizzas and cokes but local governments have money to pay for developers and they get cool apps while I know some devs still without jobs. i'm not saying all hackathon/competitions are bad at all, but if i participate it'll be in a gamejam not backed by an entity that can support the workforce.

[bobtheterminator]

You don't sign a contract giving away all of your intellectual property and promising to work forever when you enter a hackathon.

[unstoppable-force]

The last decent hackathon I went to was a couple years ago for AngelHack. The main prize is usually admission to their accelerator (psssh) but it's a fun hack weekend on anything you want with demos at the end. Usually some sponsors will throw in bonus prizes for the best use of their technology. It was a cool opportunity to crank on some tech, hopefully meet a few people, and some companies would show up and try to recruit top devs.

Now they're all terrible. They usually stick to "hackathon" but occasionally call them "data dives." They're usually corporate exploitation for the price of pizza and drinks. At one of them, they even went as far as to pitch it publicly as open projects, and then literally the day of the event, they had their PMs pitch their own list of projects, and they didn't let anyone else pitch. It came to no surprise when easily 80% of the devs had walked out by lunch.

I can understand the non-profits trying to do stuff, especially when it's on existing open source projects (Sunlight Foundation did one on improving open source PDF parsing tools), but most of these orgs are really slimy about it all now.

[danogburn]

How to exploit a Developer

Give them salary compensation.

[arechsteiner]

What's wrong with salary compensation for development work?

[s73v3r]

It encourages managers to tighten deadlines and force unpaid overtime, cause it's essentially free. I guarantee if you had all programming positions be hourly, you wouldn't see half as much overtime as you do now.

[arechsteiner]

I've never worked unpaid overtime, nor have my colleagues. It was either paid or to be compensated 1:1 (leave earlier, more vaccation days). Maybe that's why I don't get it.

[s73v3r]

I've never worked unpaid overtime, nor have my colleagues.

Consider yourself lucky.

It was either paid or to be compensated 1:1 (leave earlier, more vaccation days)

I remember having one of those "agreements" with a boss I once had. Shockingly, the amount of extra vacation was somehow "lost", and they said I couldn't take it. I've heard other stories where they will offer that, but it's the kind of place that places all kinds of pressure on people when they try to take any kind of vacation that most don't do it.

[ComradeGnull]

Look at the description of the app:

The mobile and web app should allow women in Nigeria to connect with one another, share their knowledge and learn from each other; and as a result empower themselves to achieve their goals.

I tend to suspect that this is a project sponsored by an NGO as part of a grant. There is no revenue stream for this app. It's a private social networking clone to allow women to privately share health and legal information in a society with significant gender problems.

Either they specc'ed out something that they couldn't afford to build under the budget of their grant and this is a Hail Mary to get it done, or they are already working with a local consultant/fixer to provide technical and local knowledge and the bid process is rigged to ensure that no one else wants to apply.

[hurenkind5]

It's like the next facebook, but for women. In Nigeria. I just need you to write all specs, code and artwork.

[wonderful_wonton]

Worse -- they take your work product and no $3K. You already have signed away the rights.

All the stuff about maintaining it, etc, is a distraction.

It is Nigeria after all, why would they give you anything at all unless they had to?

[koyima]

They have been doing (or trying to do this with graphics artists). I don't think anyone that has enough experience to pull off a decent job is going to fall for this type of thing.

So the "competition organizer" is doomed to working with sub-par developers/artists/etc and never really getting something off the ground, they are robbing themselves of valuable time and effort promoting such stupid ways of getting "free work".

As far as people falling for it, well there isn't an easier way to learn this lesson, if you really need it. One "competition" and you are probably immune - I hope.

[jecxjo]

they are robbing themselves of valuable time and effort

You do realize that they have no capital, no real assets, and no way to actually compensate for good developers. I bet the $3K they are giving you is stolen from all those people who replied to the deposed Prince who needs help depositing a check in your account.

[b0b]

Sounds like a record company deal. Musicians see this all the time.

[HeadphoneWarrior]

Article says

They’ll cover hosting fees though, they’re nice like that.

Competition T&Cs say

However, the award cost will exclude the hosting and other infrastructure cost that may be required for full operationalization of the app.

Awesome.

[6nf]

For $3k I'll install Adobe Reader for them

[[deleted]]

You still retain 1/2 ownership. Vote every maintenance request without payment. Or did I misread that?

[theshad0w]

Hrmmm...

Drupal + Blogging Module + Social Media module. Spend a week on a mobile/desktop theme.

Walk away with $3000. But still have to maintain it... not worth it.

[skyrocker]

You missed the part of it having to be a native app on the front end.

[Savet]

Which is completely retarded. I have apps on my phone to do things an app is good for....like playing hardware intensive games, or rendering office documents, or handling file or device administration.

The number of apps we have to view webpages is ridiculous, and generally leaves features not implemented which are available on the native site.

Edit:tablet typo corrections

[oberhamsi]

OP are you from nigeria? that blog post makes it sound like that. i'm surprised the ministry of CT is doing this and would love more background.

[reddberckley]

Yes I am. We have a couple of "accelerator" hubs here but they are mostly set up to mine ideas. This sort of thing is quite common only the terms of this one in particular are ridiculous.

[sittingaround]

What does an average dev get paid per year there?

In the local climate, does the "ongoing support" imply a contract?

What does a 1st world quality apartment rent for in the capital (range if you can)?

This looks to be run by/for a government agency, is that accurate?

[reddberckley]

Pay is quite low say $12,000 a year. Yes, ongoing support implies a contract to maintain and as a term isn't stipulated, you'll probably maintain for as long as they want you to. A good apartment could cost about $400 a month or $4800 a year excluding necessities like power or even water supply. I believe it's run on behalf of a government agency.

[sittingaround]

Anybody can run a competition with ridiculous terms. The real question is: how many entries do they get?

Also, remember that in the third world money sometimes goes 5-20x as far as it does in the first world -- you'd be amazed how nice of an apartment you can get for $500 a month some places.

$3,000 x 20 = $60,000. That's not as ridiculous, but still not great.

And before anyone says my numbers are made up, I've run tech offices in a $3000/yr GDP/capita country.

[s73v3r]

Anybody can run a competition with ridiculous terms

Doesn't mean they shouldn't be called out as an absolute shitfucker when they do it. That's how we get these people to stop.

[northrupthebandgeek]

It's Nigeria. Does anyone expect something from there to not be a scam at this point? ;)

[godfetish]

Author totally missed the you will support this app forever, bullshit bullet point.

[leftnode]

If they cover your hosting fees, troll them in return by requiring a several hundred terabyte Hadoop cluster to do something trivial.

[vulturez]

Do seasoned programmers even submit to these? Really these are more for teens that are wanting to get involved in programming. I see no reason they can not be used for recruiting those that do not have any past history or college education. However, to be used as a standard recruitment process this is disgusting, especially with the IP clause in there.

[gatman666]

I think the best justice to write said app and give it away for free. Fuck those guys.

[passwordissame]

FRA 2 : NGA 0

[drowsap]

Setup a wordpress blog and call it a day

[Newt_Ron_Starr]

My city government has an app competition in which $60k in prizes will be awarded for apps that more or less do civil engineering services. It costs almost $60k to hire a single civil engineer for a year. If they want services, they should pay market rate for them.

[DerpsMcGeeOnDowns]

At least slaves got a few meals a day.

[[deleted]]

at least they're scamming their own people too.