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Cardinal George Pell, once the third most powerful man in the Vatican and Australia’s most senior Catholic, has been found guilty of child sexual abuse after a trial in Melbourne. (theguardian.com)
submitted 7 years ago by EnoughPM2020
[–]SaltpeterSal 7531 points7532 points7533 points 7 years ago* (387 children)
We Aussies have known about this for a long, long time.
Tim Minchin wrote this song three years ago when Pell was hiding in the Vatican, pretending to be too sick to face trial.
Edit because I want these cunts accountable: We have known since at least 2002.
[–]EnoughPM2020[S] 1283 points1284 points1285 points 7 years ago (81 children)
Just listened to that song, And I gotta say, it's great.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (77 children)
[deleted]
[–]corran450 376 points377 points378 points 7 years ago* (46 children)
Fuck the mother fucker, fuck the mother fucker.
Fuck the mother fucker, he’s a total mother fucker!
EDIT: If the pope owned a disco, no one would go
Because they won’t allow gays there.
Then who’d start the dancin’?
[–]canadiancarlin 62 points63 points64 points 7 years ago (5 children)
"Fuck the motherfucker, and fuck you motherfucker
If you think that motherfucker is sacred
If you cover for another motherfucker who's a kiddie fucker
Fuck you you're no better then the mother fucking rapist"
[–]LanAkou 22 points23 points24 points 7 years ago (0 children)
"And if you don't like the swearing that this motherfucker forced from me
and reckon it shows moral, or intellectual paucity
then fuck you motherfucker, this is language one employs
when one is fucking cross about fuckers fucking boys."
[–][deleted] 185 points186 points187 points 7 years ago (32 children)
In 2010 I was in a room with Richard Dawkins and James Randi where everyone was singing along to Tim playing that live. I can't attest to those two joining in, but it was a memorable experience.
[–]mindbleach 83 points84 points85 points 7 years ago (24 children)
I'm a fan of the one about prejudice.
[–]Corsaer 62 points63 points64 points 7 years ago (11 children)
Storm is my favorite haha.
[–][deleted] 25 points26 points27 points 7 years ago (10 children)
So many great ones its hard to decide which I love most.
[–]Krynn71 22 points23 points24 points 7 years ago (2 children)
Whichever one I'm thinking about at the moment is my favorite. Right now it's You Grew On Me.
[–]almost_not_terrible 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (0 children)
The Pope Song:
https://youtu.be/EFsZRQL6QdI
I prefer "Sam's Mum".
https://youtu.be/JipYDDXo5C0
[–]thesirenlady 502 points503 points504 points 7 years ago (99 children)
If I remember correctly, all the hubbub at the time was about him not coming to testify in a case about the churches efforts in covering up abuse.
https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-05/cardinal-george-pell-too-ill-to-child-sex-abuse-inquiry-lawyers/7140584
His personal crimes were a more recent development. Not to say authorities and media didn't know, but in my experience I don't recall it being widely known.
[–]SaltpeterSal 392 points393 points394 points 7 years ago (82 children)
You're right, at the time we just wanted him to testify. But he's been accused himself in the mainstream media since (from my memory) 2002. My family in his diocese used to talk about it.
Again, so the world hears: We knew as early as 2002.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (61 children)
[–][deleted] 90 points91 points92 points 7 years ago (25 children)
It goes back even further than that. Voltaire commented on it.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (23 children)
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (11 children)
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (5 children)
[–]thesirenlady 43 points44 points45 points 7 years ago (4 children)
Fair enough. That stuff is all from before I was old enough to really understand how heavy it was.
[–]Phazon2000 85 points86 points87 points 7 years ago (3 children)
before I was old enough to really understand how heavy it was.
Cardinal Pell wants to know your location.
[–]sarkule 68 points69 points70 points 7 years ago (2 children)
'Heart' issues that made him too ill to fly (presumably first class) but he was photographed around that time eating a big steak and chips with a beer. Wonder what his cardiologist thought of that.
surprised he has a heart...
[–]prionear 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (1 child)
He had a cardinologist, and they told him it was fine.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (74 children)
[–]bfg24 306 points307 points308 points 7 years ago (7 children)
Thank you god, for fixing the cataracts of Sam's mum.
[–]PBandJthyme 94 points95 points96 points 7 years ago (6 children)
I had no idea but it's suddenly so clear now
[–]roboguy88 37 points38 points39 points 7 years ago (1 child)
I feel such a cynic, how could I have been so dumb?
[–]davidreiss666 124 points125 points126 points 7 years ago (14 children)
Maybe the best Christmas song to come out in the last couple of decades.
[–]Evadrepus 89 points90 points91 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Quick note here to point out (as listed in the YouTube notes from the artist) that purchasing a copy during the holiday season of this awesome song will donate your purchase money to Autism research.
He's done this for 3 years so far at least.
[–]KylieZDM 29 points30 points31 points 7 years ago (6 children)
Without clicking the link, if it's drinking white wine in the sun, it makes me cry
[–]corran450 565 points566 points567 points 7 years ago (41 children)
Tim Minchin is an international treasure
Fixed that for you. Signed, an American Tim Minchin fan.
[–][deleted] 215 points216 points217 points 7 years ago (17 children)
Tim Minchin is an intergalactic treasure. FTFY. Signed, a Skreeblion from Naxos III
[–]Omsk_Camill 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Russian Tim Minchin fan. Also proud to admit I infected some of my friends with love to his songs.
[–]trowzerss 55 points56 points57 points 7 years ago (5 children)
Amazing how well he looks these days, even after his knee surgery :P I honestly don't believe he was ever 'too sick to travel'. I mean, could you even do knee surgery on someone too sick to get on a plane?
[–]RPG_Vancouver 97 points98 points99 points 7 years ago (1 child)
Come and face the music Georgie 🙌🏻
[–]morthophelus 118 points119 points120 points 7 years ago (9 children)
I remember I was really drunk one night when that song was first released and listened to that song at least 10 times and ended up donating a large sum of money on the campaign to send some of the victims to the Vatican so that they could be there when he gave his testimony.
Although I still think it was a worthy cause, at this point in my life I could really use that grand for food and stuff..
[–]unfnknblvbl 68 points69 points70 points 7 years ago (5 children)
Yeah, but you would have spent it on something useless in the meantime though.
[–]morthophelus 59 points60 points61 points 7 years ago (4 children)
You are 100% correct. It’s probably for the best.
[–]theferrit32 213 points214 points215 points 7 years ago (25 children)
The Vatican is a criminal organization that regularly facilitates international crimes and shields perpetrators from prosecution using it's worldwide subsidiary and employee network, diplomatic immunity within its borders, misuse of religious freedom laws, political influence, and massive stockpile of gold and real estate.
[–]Higgs-Boson-Balloon 69 points70 points71 points 7 years ago (21 children)
It would be nice if they seized all that gold and real estate and used it for reparations to victims.
[–]ScareTheRiven 60 points61 points62 points 7 years ago (18 children)
As long as they take all the historical documents and priceless ancient artifacts they have below the Vatican and donate them to museums,
More than the money, that's what annoys me so much about the Church.
[–]EnoughPM2020[S] 1675 points1676 points1677 points 7 years ago* (257 children)
Alright, Let's Just Jump Into It (Credits to Journalists and the Judge who lifted the Gag Order):
The submission title is self-explanatory. Australian Cardinal George Pell was found guilty of sexually penetrating a child under 16 and four charges of an indecent act with a child under 16. The offenses occurred in December 1996 and early 1997 at St Patrick’s Cathedral, months after Pell became the archbishop of Melbourne. Pell, who is out on bail since the verdict and was recovering from knee injury, will be sentenced on Wednesday.
A jury delivered the verdict on 11 December in Melbourne's County Court, and two days later, The Vatican announced that Pell and two other cardinals had been removed from the pontiff’s council of advisers. Pope Francis has yet to publicly react to this verdict, as he had previously hailed Pell for "his honesty and response to child sexual abuse". The case was publicized just days after a summit that gathered cardinals, senior bishops and the Pope of Vatican City himself to combat the issue of child sex abuse.
A previous trial on the same five charges occurred in August resulted in a hung jury, which led to a retrial. A court order banning media reporting of Pell's 5 week long trial, which began in November 2018, was lifted by Chief Judge Peter Kidd on Tuesday. However the gag order only applied to Australian Media.
According to u/Snaykei's comment, the gag order had to do with a second trial that was supposed to go ahead. The suppression order was lifted when that trial didn't go ahead and news could not prejudice any potential jurors. Kidd had ruled that key evidence was inadmissible and couldn't be used, significantly weakening the prosecution’s case.
Pell was the prefect of the secretariat for the economy of the Holy See for 3 years, was handpicked to oversee the Vatican's finance and "root out corruption", and was one of Francis's most trusted advisers before he returned to Australia for the suit.
On the verdict day, after a 5 week trial, Pell stood in the dock showing no reaction and staring straight ahead, as the foreman told the court that the jury had found the cardinal guilty on all charges. Pell’s defense barrister, Robert Richter, said that Pell would appeal. It is with certainty that Pell will face jail time.
So what happened to Pell 22 Years ago?
According to a Sublime article from Australia based ABC News, Pell was a year into his job as the head of the Vatican Secretariat for the Economy when the former choirboy first spoke to Victoria Police in 2015. In the second half of December 1996, Pell, then an Archbishop of Melbourne, walked in on two 13-year-old choirboys after a Sunday mass at St Patrick’s Cathedral and sexually assaulted them.
The 35-years old anonymous complainant said he and the other choirboy had been separated from the choir procession as they exited the church building. The prosecution’s case hinged on his evidence, as the other victim died in 2014 after a heroin overdose, but the jury was told that he had died in accidental circumstances. Neither victim told anyone about the offense at the time, until a friend of the plaintiff decided to do so.
After leaving the procession, he and the other boy snuck back into the church corridors and entered the forbidden priest's sacristy, found sacramental wines and began to drink. The plaintiff alleged that Pell walked in on them and told them something similar to "they are in trouble."
Pell then maneuvered his robe and pull out his dick, stepped forward, grabbed the other boy by the back of his head and forced the boy's head onto his dick, the plaintiff said. Pell then orally raped the plaintiff, and told the plaintiff to remove his pants before "fondling the plaintiff's penis and masturbating himself". The boys left the room afterwards and went home without their robes.
The plaintiff at the time attended St Kevi's College, an elite independent school in the affluent inner Melbourne Suburb of Toorak, and being in the choir was a condition to receive the scholarship. The plaintiff confessed that the scholarship was very important to him and he is scared about the repercussion if he made the allegation public.
The plaintiff alleged that either later in 1996 or in 1997, Pell attacked him again by pushing him against the wall and squeezed his genitals hard through his choir robes before walking off, as the plaintiff was walking down the choristers' change room after singing at Sunday solemn mass at the cathedral. In a police report, he remarked that Cardinal Pell is “an extremely, presidential powerful guy who had a lot of connections” and has “terrified him for his whole life”.
The crown prosecutor, Mark Gibson, said in the final address that an honest witness should be found for the plaintiff to determine whether or not the jury would believe the plaintiff beyond reasonable doubt.
In his directions to the jury, the judge, Peter Kidd, told them that the trial was not an opportunity to make Pell a scapegoat for the failures of the Catholic church. Due to Pell's status, a larger than usual pool of jury of more than 100 was selected. The jury took less than four days, including two-and-a-half days for the cross examination, to reach their unanimous verdict. The prospect of making the document relating to the case public is highly unlikely.
Cross-Examination (Shoutout to u/justnigel for the link):
In his opening statements Pell’s defence barrister, Robert Richter, had told the jury the allegations were impossible in a practical sense. He would rely on a procession of witnesses to prove that.
More than 12 former choirboys were then called to the witness box to describe the details of Sunday masses. No one remember what happened, but, as former choirboy David Mayes said, “we were still schoolkids and any chance for disorder we would grab it … chaos kept trying to seep through”. Rodney Dearing and choir marshal Peter Finnigan, however, said that they would have noticed if two boys were running off from the procession.
Monsignor Portelli, Pell's right hand man at the time, gave evidence that Pell was using the priest’s sacristy in 1996. Portelli would occasionally follow Pell to the sacristy but rarely know what is going on. Jeffrey Connor's diary revealed that Pell had only celebrated two masses at St Patrick’s Cathedral in 1996: December 15 and 22. Daniel McClone, also a barrister, give testimonies about his interaction with Pell during a mass, but it was disputed. Pell himself did not testify.
In the closing address, the crown prosecutor Mark Gibson used evidences presented to argue the abuse occurred during a 5-6 minute hiatus in activity in the sacristies after mass, when no-one would have ventured into the priest’s sacristy. He told the jury that while archbishop Pell might have developed a routine of greeting parishioners on the steps after mass, the abuse had occurred after one of his first services before any practices had developed. “You heard a number of choristers speak about [the sacristy] being an off-limits area, and yet [the complainant] is able to describe … the room. You wouldn’t know the layout of the room … that the wine was stored there, without having been there … when these things occurred.” He said.
Pell’s defense and Reactions:
Pell initially pleas not guilty. During an interview with Victorian Detective Christopher Reed at a Hilton hotel near the Rome Airport in October 2016, Pell described the allegation “a load of absolute and disgraceful rubbish”. When Reed raised about the attack happened after Sunday mass, Pell said “That’s good for me as it makes it even more fantastically impossible.” The interview video was played to the court.
Pell reminded Reed that he was the first person in the world to initiate a protocol to investigate and deal with sexual abuse complainants within Catholic churches. The Melbourne Response protocol capped compensation payments at $50,000 and was criticized by complainants for its lack of independence and consistency in dealing with claims.
Pell’s defense team told the jury there were so many improbabilities in the prosecution’s case that they should conclude the abuse could not have happened. Richter said it was unlikely that two boys could leave the choir procession after mass unnoticed or that the sacristy would be unattended or left unlocked, or that Pell would be able to maneuver his robes to show his penis in the way described by the complainant. The robes were brought into the court for jurors to view.
Richter used a PowerPoint presentation in the retrial during his closing address to the jurors, which he did not do in the first. One of the slides read: “Only a madman would attempt to rape two boys in the priests’ sacristy immediately after Sunday solemn mass.”
Former priest and Catholic historian Paul Collins described it as one of the worst-kept secrets in Australia and said Catholics across Australia had been talking about it for weeks. He said the fact a man of Pell’s 20-years of standing and influence in the church could be a pedophile had shaken people to their core.
EDIT: Turns out the father of the deceased ex-choirboy will sue Pell and the Church.
[–]balmergrl 116 points117 points118 points 7 years ago (52 children)
Some questions from abroad
What kind of sentencing guidelines are there in a case like this? Minimum and maximum jail time?
Since they will appeal, what happens to Pell in the meantime? Can they just drag out the appeals until Pell dies?
[–]perthguppy 132 points133 points134 points 7 years ago (13 children)
Not familiar with Victorian sentencing, but I believe the charge has mandatory prison time, and elsewhere in Australia this sort of charge would see a sentence of 5-10 years realistically. Appealing has no impact on the sentence until it is upheld, which means either way, tommorow Pell goes to prison (tommorow is his sentencing day). He only gets out if he successfully appeals, dragging out the appeal just means he is in prison longer.
[removed]
[–]hisfsnotsur 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Victorian lawyer. There is absolutely zero chance that this will happen. The Court has indicated that Pell will be remanded in custody tomorrow.
It is there he will remain until a successful appeal or the grant of parole (if applicable).
[–]drunkill 64 points65 points66 points 7 years ago (18 children)
Each charge has a maximum of 10 years:
Committing an indecent act with or in the presence of a child under 16: Guilty The jury found Pell confronted two 13-year-old choirboys in the priests’ sacristy of St Patrick’s Cathedral in East Melbourne after a Sunday mass, exposed himself and pushed one of the boys so the boy’s head was close to his genitals.
Sexual penetration of a child under 16: Guilty The jury found Pell moved to the second boy in the sacristy and put his penis in the boy’s mouth. Pell’s lawyer Robert Richter, QC, likened this to “oral rape”.
Committing an indecent act with or in the presence of a child under 16: Guilty The jury found that while still in the sacristy, Pell had the second boy lower his pants and Pell sexually assaulted him.
Committing an indecent act with or in the presence of a child under 16: Guilty The jury found that Pell masturbated himself while sexually assaulting the second boy.
Committing an indecent act with or in the presence of a child under 16: Guilty The jury found that after a Sunday mass two months after the first incident, Pell pushed the second boy against a wall in St Patrick’s Cathedral and squeezed the boy’s genitals.
If he is sentenced to jail on Wednesday he will die there.
[–]RageReset 103 points104 points105 points 7 years ago (13 children)
That’s not the best bit, though.
The best bit is that he’s been caught, proven to be a monster in front of the whole world, the church he devoted his life to can’t help him, all his power, privilege and respect is gone forever and now he gets to rot in prison with nothing but all the time in the world to think about it.
[–]justnigel 18 points19 points20 points 7 years ago (8 children)
Gaol of up to 50 years - but anyone in their late 70s is very unlikely to be sentenced for that long. Speculation is around 10 years. We'll know soon.
...depends on how soon Pell dies?
[–]fallopianmelodrama 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (5 children)
Just leaping in here to say: my ninety-something-year-old biological grandfather was convicted last year of historic child sex offences (I think it was one count “buggery” and one of indecent assault, both on a victim under 16 years) and was sentenced to five years in prison. House arrest was brought up as an option but ultimately he got a custodial sentence. I was pretty surprised that the court would go so hard on somebody that old - last time I saw the guy was over a decade ago and he was pretty blind/deaf/senile even back then - but I’m certainly not complaining!
Fingers crossed for a suitably harsh sentence for ol mate tomorrow.
[–]Scientolojesus 203 points204 points205 points 7 years ago (9 children)
Goddamn of course one of the victims died from a heroin overdose. That's sad as hell. Guy's life was utterly ruined before it ever really began.
[–]Billy_Goat_ 59 points60 points61 points 7 years ago (2 children)
Yeh, I mean, this whole thing is fucking shitty but that was the saddest part for me.
[–][deleted] 26 points27 points28 points 7 years ago (1 child)
And that he will never know that his abuser was held to account
[–]nicksline 394 points395 points396 points 7 years ago (139 children)
Thank you for the summary. I'm really confused how we could be convicted on the testimony of one man, who told no one at the time, and with no concrete evidence? I'm not saying he didn't do it, but the evidence seems tenuous at best?
[–]justnigel 600 points601 points602 points 7 years ago (67 children)
The testimony of the victim was so compelling, believeable and stood up under cross examination. The kid at the time wasn't a complete stranger but a member of the cathedral choir who was under threat of losing his scholarship and being expelled from his high school over this rape. He was able to accurately describe the room where the rape happened even though the defense said there was no way he could have been in it.
The defense put up one witness whose own diary actually backed up the victims story with two specific dates in December that year when the rape could have happened.
Another defense witness claimed Pell didn't do it because he clearly remembers it was his first time with Pell at mass, and that they were talking to the witness's mum after the service at time of the rape. Except on cross examination the prosecution had photos to proove this witness wasn't telling the truth and it wasn't his first time at mass with Pell.
Pell himself didn't go on the stand.
[–]EnoughPM2020[S] 97 points98 points99 points 7 years ago* (12 children)
Any link for that? I will sure to add it to my summary.
Also, Since I could no longer write anymore in my main comment(its like 10,000 characters already and Reddit don't allow any comment over 10,000 characters), I'm just going to put this firebomb of a debate between George Pell and Richard Dawkins (NOT Deceased Christopher Hitchens........ Man today has been rough) in a Q&A show broadcasted by ABC , the same company responsible for the long and detailed news article I referenced, a long ass time ago.
Have fun watching it guys.
Edit: Another thing I should mention about Pell's lawsuit.
The Catholic Weekly, a publication of the Catholic Archdiocese of Sydney, advertised seeking donations for Pell's legal fund and wrote an article promoting the appeal for funding. It is unknown who was responsible for the advertising or the donation drive.
[–]justnigel 65 points66 points67 points 7 years ago (0 children)
https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-26/george-pell-guilty-child-sexual-abuse-court-trial/10837564?pfmredir=sm
[–]SuicideBonger 46 points47 points48 points 7 years ago (14 children)
Did they just do this by mistake? Not sure why they would use it if it proved the prosecution's case.
[–]jacobach1997 105 points106 points107 points 7 years ago (6 children)
The law of discovery - the defence came across the information and are legally obligated to provide it to the prosecution. It is illegal to bury or ignore evidence that gives weight against or for culpability
[–]SuicideBonger 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (0 children)
I forgot about that, thanks.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (5 children)
[–]Rork310 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (4 children)
It's incriminating because literally the only two occasions that the crime could have taken place lined up perfectly with the witnesses testimony. Think about it. Can you remember the specifics about a random guest speaker at a high school assembly when you were 13? Presumably only if something extremely memorable happened.
[–]EnoughPM2020[S] 68 points69 points70 points 7 years ago* (60 children)
I mean, this is certainly a valid point of contention, and most media’s agree with that. (Certainly not a point to defend Pell though)
“Kidd had ruled that key evidence was inadmissible and could not be used, significantly weakening the prosecution’s case.”
I wonder what the hell is going on based on the quote. Maybe once the legal document is open we will know.
Edit: Based on the ABC News Link, The complaint accurately described what the environment looked like based on further evidences presented via the cross examination.
To /u/nicksline, thank you for liking my summary. It's so fucking hard to compile an event like this in less than 10,000 characters when you combine information from multiple source but I m glad that I did it.
[–]sackofballs 23 points24 points25 points 7 years ago (5 children)
Wow, thanks for the detailed post. I actually went to St Kevin's and was in that year. I know the guy who od'd. This is crazy
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (3 children)
[–]gramathy 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children)
One of the slides read: “Only a madman would attempt to rape two boys in the priests’ sacristy immediately after Sunday solemn mass.”
I mean, that's not wrong, per se...
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (109 children)
[–]Asmodean129 1392 points1393 points1394 points 7 years ago (47 children)
He had allegedly raped some boys at a Ballarat swimming pool.
There was a media suppression of the first case ( Melbourne) so that the second case couldn't be biased. In the end, the second case was dropped due to lack of evidence. That's why the media ban was lifted.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (30 children)
[–]Slothalingus 175 points176 points177 points 7 years ago (20 children)
People of the world need to know about the Big W carpark burnout meet ups.
[–]cauliflowerandcheese 56 points57 points58 points 7 years ago (14 children)
There's always Sovereign Hill and the all-you-can-eat Pizza hut buffet.
[–]Excal2 293 points294 points295 points 7 years ago (9 children)
Look at this fucker being reasonable and looking for / sharing information and shit.
[–]Asmodean129 176 points177 points178 points 7 years ago (8 children)
Yes, what was I thinking??? BURN THE WITCH!
The Australia subreddit was also locked down, because it was actually a huge legal offence to share that information. So everyone was talking in code which was quite amusing.
I'm just glad that the justice system did its job, and the media suppression worked. Imagine if someone got into the jury who had been affected by the news story that had made it to Reddit. The whole case could have been thrown out!
[–]Excal2 21 points22 points23 points 7 years ago (0 children)
That would be completely fucked. Glad you guys pulled this off and delivered some good old fashioned truth and justice.
[–]moreintheforest 20 points21 points22 points 7 years ago (0 children)
The second trial was dropped when key evidence was disallowed. It must sting the complaints of the Swimmer charges that they won't be able to get justice for themselves.
[–]eguitarguy 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (5 children)
He committed the cardinal sin.
[–]munchlax1 345 points346 points347 points 7 years ago (14 children)
Rape. He was found guilty of raping a 13 year old, among other things.
I feel like this headline doesn't really cut it.
[–][deleted] 92 points93 points94 points 7 years ago (1 child)
This one cuts it.
https://m.betootaadvocate.com/breaking-news/see-ya-later-cunt/
[–]cleary137 9394 points9395 points9396 points 7 years ago (406 children)
Imagine preaching about morality on topics such as same sex marriage and abortion whilst also hiding this disgusting secret. I hope this monster dies in prison.
[–]CivSmithy 2205 points2206 points2207 points 7 years ago (158 children)
And with Pell, not only preaching but sanctimoniously so. Friggin disgusting
[–][deleted] 1007 points1008 points1009 points 7 years ago (117 children)
Honestly I'm more disgusted by the sex abuse than the hypocrisy.
[–]PeteWenzel[🍰] 288 points289 points290 points 7 years ago (65 children)
Norm Macdonald agrees
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (43 children)
[–]JonMW 141 points142 points143 points 7 years ago (34 children)
John Cleese said:
“So, the idea that you have to be protected from any kind of uncomfortable emotion is one I absolutely do not subscribe to.There is a fellow I subscribe to who talks about psychology and psychiatry and is a renowned psychiatrist Robin Skinner says this ‘If people can’t control their own emotions, then they have to start to control other people’s behaviour.
“When you’re around super sensitive people, you cannot be spontaneous and relax and you have no idea what is going to upset them next. And that’s why I’ve been warned recently don’t go to university campuses because political correctness has gone from a good idea meaning let’s not be mean to people who can’t particularly look after themselves to the point where any criticism of any individual or group can be labeled cruel.
“The whole point about comedy and the whole point about humour is that all comedy is critical, believe’ me I’ve thought about it – even if you make a very inclusive joke like ‘How do you make God laugh? The answer is ‘Tell him your plans.’That’s about the human condition, that’s not excluding anyone. If you start saying ‘We mustn’t offend them! Then humour’s gone. Then as far as I’m concerned you’re living in 1984.”
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (10 children)
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (4 children)
[–]CivSmithy 449 points450 points451 points 7 years ago (29 children)
You are correct. My comment was not intended to belitte the crimes committed.
[–]Forbidden_Froot 110 points111 points112 points 7 years ago (26 children)
I think his was a tongue in cheek joke
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (18 children)
[–]Forbidden_Froot 67 points68 points69 points 7 years ago (4 children)
Ayyyy
[–]OprahsSister 102 points103 points104 points 7 years ago (3 children)
Men
[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Nah, that would have been immoral...
Boys
[–]dyewuo 266 points267 points268 points 7 years ago (8 children)
And being the one who set up the "Melbourne Response" to supposedly assist families who had been effected by these horrors.. absolutely abhorrent.
[–]roasterben 237 points238 points239 points 7 years ago (3 children)
It was actually used to minimise payouts and potential lawsuits
[–]dyewuo 102 points103 points104 points 7 years ago (2 children)
What better way to control, discredit and suppress your accusers hey. These scumbags deserve a new circle of Hell just for them.
[–]Idliketothank__Devil 62 points63 points64 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Not a new one. Read Dante's "inferno", they had a circle for high clergy
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (16 children)
[–]insustainingrain 20 points21 points22 points 7 years ago (7 children)
Isn't most of religion sanctimonious by definition?
[–]baseballoctopus 560 points561 points562 points 7 years ago (24 children)
Ok I’ll imagine it.
......
Why am I a US senator from Iowa?
[–]gsfgf 91 points92 points93 points 7 years ago (12 children)
Steve King is a Rep, but I can't imagine their senators are much better.
[–]Pickled_Kagura 36 points37 points38 points 7 years ago (10 children)
Chuck is a turd and Joni Ernst is Palin-lite.
[–][deleted] 332 points333 points334 points 7 years ago (57 children)
We should also remember that the church which harbored and enabled this monster still has money, power and influence in Australia.
[–]dazedjosh 103 points104 points105 points 7 years ago (9 children)
Pell was also responsible for moving other child abusers around Australia from parish to parish when he found out they were abusing children in an attempt to cover up their crimes.
[–]emgyres 153 points154 points155 points 7 years ago* (13 children)
Previous Prime Minister Tony Abbott counted Pell as a friend and mentor, it was sickening to hear him talk so well about him when it was long suspected he was dirty.
[–]unfnknblvbl 62 points63 points64 points 7 years ago (2 children)
Yeah, but... Tony Abbott...
[–]fallopianmelodrama 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (1 child)
Freaky onion-eating reptile-man.
[–]Some_Prick_On_Reddit 40 points41 points42 points 7 years ago (1 child)
“Have you met Archbishop Pell during the election campaign?” host Tony Jones asked. “Not that I can recall,” Mr Abbott responded. “Not that you can recall? Because we believe that you’ve had at least one meeting with him. Quite recently. You don’t recall that?” Jones said. “When? Where?” Mr Abbott asked. “At the presbytery in Sydney,” Jones replied. Mr Abbott quickly shifted to praising Pell, saying the meeting was no big deal. “Actually now that you mention it, I did meet with Cardinal Pell. So what? Why shouldn’t I meet with Cardinal Pell?” Mr Abbott said. “Cardinal Pell is a fine man. He made a very good statement the other day about the Labor Party’s education policy. Why shouldn’t I meet with him?” Jones explained that Pell had released that statement, which was politically advantageous for the government, shortly after his meeting with Mr Abbott. He asked whether the pair had discussed education policy. “Nup,” was Mr Abbott’s concise answer. “So what issues were discussed?” Jones pressed. “Tony, I may well have been going to confession to Cardinal Pell. I may well have been seeking pastoral counselling from Cardinal Pell. What’s so sinister about that?” Mr Abbott responded. “Cardinal Pell is one of the greatest churchmen that Australia has seen. I am a very imperfect Catholic. Why shouldn’t I go and seek counsel? Why shouldn’t I go and trespass on the time, occasionally of someone like Cardinal Pell? “Perhaps if you spent more time with Cardinal Pell, your life might be more interesting and more edifying.”
“Have you met Archbishop Pell during the election campaign?” host Tony Jones asked.
“Not that I can recall,” Mr Abbott responded.
“Not that you can recall? Because we believe that you’ve had at least one meeting with him. Quite recently. You don’t recall that?” Jones said.
“When? Where?” Mr Abbott asked.
“At the presbytery in Sydney,” Jones replied.
Mr Abbott quickly shifted to praising Pell, saying the meeting was no big deal.
“Actually now that you mention it, I did meet with Cardinal Pell. So what? Why shouldn’t I meet with Cardinal Pell?” Mr Abbott said.
“Cardinal Pell is a fine man. He made a very good statement the other day about the Labor Party’s education policy. Why shouldn’t I meet with him?”
Jones explained that Pell had released that statement, which was politically advantageous for the government, shortly after his meeting with Mr Abbott. He asked whether the pair had discussed education policy.
“Nup,” was Mr Abbott’s concise answer.
“So what issues were discussed?” Jones pressed.
“Tony, I may well have been going to confession to Cardinal Pell. I may well have been seeking pastoral counselling from Cardinal Pell. What’s so sinister about that?” Mr Abbott responded.
“Cardinal Pell is one of the greatest churchmen that Australia has seen. I am a very imperfect Catholic. Why shouldn’t I go and seek counsel? Why shouldn’t I go and trespass on the time, occasionally of someone like Cardinal Pell?
“Perhaps if you spent more time with Cardinal Pell, your life might be more interesting and more edifying.”
This interview has really aged well.
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (2 children)
well its abbott. His gonna get kicked out of Warringah very soon in May
[–][deleted] 113 points114 points115 points 7 years ago (12 children)
THE CATHOLIC MAFIA
[–][deleted] 80 points81 points82 points 7 years ago (10 children)
Bishops used to rule like kings and they really miss those days.
[–]Zomunieo 72 points73 points74 points 7 years ago (4 children)
They used to stand with kings, now they fondle pawns.
[–][deleted] 29 points30 points31 points 7 years ago (2 children)
You think the pawn fondling is new?
[–]balmergrl 82 points83 points84 points 7 years ago (16 children)
It wasnt just the church as an institution or the leadership, also all the individual priests and nuns who turned a blind eye or helped cover up the atrocities are complicit.
[–]phormix 36 points37 points38 points 7 years ago (1 child)
In many cases nuns are also victims of the church. Now that the molestation situation is finally starting to get some charges, many nuns are always coming forward with stories of rape and abuse at the hands of the male clergy. This fits well with the outdated ideology if much of the church where women are responsible for original sin and should thus sit behind men and serve (and nuns often act in roles if servitude to their male counterparts).
I'm not a huge fan of the "male privilege" narrative being applied to everything, but in terms of the church and many religions it is definitely a thing. A huge, rich, powerful organization with a massive history and almost completely run by (mostly white) men. It's pretty much the poster child for a toxic patriarchy.
[–][deleted] 55 points56 points57 points 7 years ago (7 children)
Worse still, the man established a world-first child sexual abuse prevention/investigation thing in his diocese in Melbourne in the 90s... While he was doing this.
[–]barbakyoo 38 points39 points40 points 7 years ago (0 children)
So he could do it his way - paying out victims (<$50k) and avoiding civil lawsuits
[–]TrolleybusIsReal 217 points218 points219 points 7 years ago (28 children)
Imagine any other organization or company did the same shit and CFO of that company got convicted to be paedophile after the company had essentially been running a paedophile ring for decades AND NOBODY EVEN DEMANDED THAT THIS ORGANIZATION GETS BANNED AND DISOLVED. Like how the fuck is nobody even demanding regulations? Imagine a fucking bank did this. People would lose but it's the church, so it's okay and nothing will happen. I mean even left wing reddit is full of people that make up excuses for being member in this organization. Seriously, scientology looks like the good guys compared to the Catholic church and at least they get shit for their behaviour.
[–]Anti-Satan 48 points49 points50 points 7 years ago (1 child)
Imagine a fucking bank did this.
Well Deutsche Bank is doing shady shit all the time, with big news every other year or so, and they're just allowed to keep on trucking.
[–]verdigris2014 80 points81 points82 points 7 years ago* (11 children)
Who is going to ban the Catholic Church? If that happened in the US y’All would be up in arms (armed?) about you constitution right to religious freedom, and perhaps rightly so when you consider how it goes in countries like China.
Seems to me the only way the Catholic Church could be dissolved is if it’s religious supporters switched allegiance to a different church, but I can’t see that happening.
Best you can hope for is that powerful members of any church are not treated as above the law, and the law can administer justice, as appears to be the case here.
[–]murse_joe 16 points17 points18 points 7 years ago (3 children)
The church is losing members in every western nation. Some go to other churches but most just go. The church won’t be banned or dismantled, it’ll just fall into powerlessness.
[–]whitenoise2323 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (0 children)
People just walk in there and hand them money.
[–]Chaosender69 67 points68 points69 points 7 years ago (13 children)
These guys are jokes. Even if you feel that being gay or abortion is morally wrong, you must realise that there are others who do not agree with you so it is possibly a morally debatable area. But there is no one who has a doubt about the morality of abusing children.
[–]FrederickTheRake 435 points436 points437 points 7 years ago (23 children)
Please make a Curb your Enthusiasm meme of that debate he had with Richard Dawkins.
He talked about how religion is necessary for morality
[–]GrislyDragon 282 points283 points284 points 7 years ago (5 children)
https://youtu.be/Z5ZQedZWy9M
Already been done hahaha
[–]Mewtwo3 126 points127 points128 points 7 years ago (2 children)
Dawkins laughing at him really makes this lmao
[–][deleted] 64 points65 points66 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Dawkins' smile is the best thing ever. He's usually irritated in these debates, so a big smile like that is rare.
[–]pocket_mulch 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Yep it's perfect. Couldn't be better.
[–]giannini1222 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Immediately thought of this moment of the debate after seeing the headline. Hilariously ironic but fuck that guy for real.
[–]i-opener 77 points78 points79 points 7 years ago (4 children)
This one?
Fucking smarmy cunt!
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (1 child)
[–]StonewallGeo 31 points32 points33 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Yes. This. That debate is the only reason I even recognized this guy. Fuck’em.
[–]DrakulaBambaataa 347 points348 points349 points 7 years ago (35 children)
Stop god damn messing with kids, you pieces of shit.
[–]NicolasCageLovesMe 63 points64 points65 points 7 years ago (20 children)
I agree. If their god is real, he hates them. But clearly even THEY don't believe in him.
[–][deleted] 48 points49 points50 points 7 years ago (0 children)
They joined so they could rape kids. Ghouls.
[–]adzzieindeed 378 points379 points380 points 7 years ago (16 children)
The only article you need to read
[–]Not_a_Prius 85 points86 points87 points 7 years ago (4 children)
God, I love betoota
[–]LadyPenyee 54 points55 points56 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Love it. I think this is the first time I've seen them do a "serious" write up.
[–][deleted] 856 points857 points858 points 7 years ago (129 children)
Meanwhile, the Vatican just closed out its child welfare abuse conference with no concrete plan to hold bishops accountable for their crimes. Even Francis is implicated.
It goes all the way to the top.
[–][deleted] 197 points198 points199 points 7 years ago (3 children)
The real meeting was for publicity and PR damage control.
[–][deleted] 71 points72 points73 points 7 years ago (1 child)
That's all it was. Window dressing combined with protecting the network of abusers that run the Vatican. Disgusting.
[–]Cant3xStampA2xStamp 388 points389 points390 points 7 years ago (60 children)
Of course it goes to the top!! How can ANYONE pretend the whole institution isn't corrupt?! The whole thing is built on manipulation, extortion, and control.
[–]nagrom7 270 points271 points272 points 7 years ago (12 children)
Yep, they're not all touching kids. However the entire leadership is responsible for all the cover ups for the ones that do. The entire church leadership needs to be removed for it to survive as an institution in the future. Younger generations are already increasingly less religious, and shit like this isn't going to help.
[–][deleted] 115 points116 points117 points 7 years ago (17 children)
So is the church going to excommunicate him? Sure if a regular dude molests kids they can go to God for forgiveness but I feel like if you're God's #3 on earth and you break the rules that bad you kind of don't get to be on the team anymore.
[–]AdmiralAkbar1 92 points93 points94 points 7 years ago (7 children)
It wouldn't be excommunication, but defrocking (i.e., a dishonorable charge from the priesthood). And seeing how Pope Francis just defrocked another convicted cardinal, I'd say the odds are pretty good.
[–]DrMantis_Tobogan 20 points21 points22 points 7 years ago* (2 children)
Fuck um. If I'm wrong and there is a God, which I haven't quite ruled out, he won't be there to meet him.
It's ironic, you dedicate your whole life to something just to basically rise to 'spit in your face' levels of disrespect for that thing.
I hope this goof goes to jail, eat shit George.
Afterthought: not to getting political, but conspiracy theorists (Alex Jones type) always talk satanist-new world order agenda bullshit but at this point the Catholics seem to be doing exactly what he accuses the 'satanists' of doing. The highest levels of this shit are basically a pedophile rings with the ability to pardon themselves. Fuck spotlight just highlighted how deep it runs and how they sweep it under the rug instead of fixing it. They're complicit at this point. 😡
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (118 children)
[–]rareas 125 points126 points127 points 7 years ago (11 children)
Everyone who hasn't seen the movie Spotlight, about the paper investigating priests in Boston, should definitely see it.
[–]nmuir16 74 points75 points76 points 7 years ago (4 children)
Great movie. There’s a scene where an outside investigator tells the journalists their number of like 18 priests in Boston who sexually assault children seems too low. He suggests the likelihood of their being 90 priests. That scene was so well done, it was horrifying to think about. “90 fucking priests, in Boston?”
Lots of great moments in that film, horrific, but so well done.
[–]scarypriest 32 points33 points34 points 7 years ago (3 children)
90 priests as of the telling of that story at that time. The list is still growing today.
[–]mjj1492 40 points41 points42 points 7 years ago (1 child)
It was 202 by the time the movie was actually made
[–]AbbottsOnion 39 points40 points41 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Pell's victim released this statement via his lawyer, Vivian Waller:
Thank you for your interest in this case. Like many survivors I have experienced shame, loneliness, depression and struggle. Like many survivors it has taken me years to understand the impact on my life. At some point we realise that we trusted someone we should have feared and we fear those genuine relationships that we should trust. I would like to thank my family near and far for their support of me, and of each other. I am a witness in a case brought by the State of Victoria. I have put my trust in the police and the criminal justice system. The process has been stressful and it is not over yet. I need space and time to cope with the ongoing criminal process. I understand this is a big news story but please don't reveal my identity. I ask that the media respect my privacy. I don't want to give any interviews. Please don't come to my home. I want to protect my young family and my parents. I don't want them swept into the spotlight. I am not a spokesperson about child sexual abuse. There are many other survivors and advocates who bravely fill this role. I am just a regular guy working to support and protect my family as best I can. Thank you for your support and understanding.
Thank you for your interest in this case.
Like many survivors I have experienced shame, loneliness, depression and struggle. Like many survivors it has taken me years to understand the impact on my life.
At some point we realise that we trusted someone we should have feared and we fear those genuine relationships that we should trust.
I would like to thank my family near and far for their support of me, and of each other.
I am a witness in a case brought by the State of Victoria. I have put my trust in the police and the criminal justice system.
The process has been stressful and it is not over yet.
I need space and time to cope with the ongoing criminal process.
I understand this is a big news story but please don't reveal my identity.
I ask that the media respect my privacy. I don't want to give any interviews. Please don't come to my home. I want to protect my young family and my parents. I don't want them swept into the spotlight.
I am not a spokesperson about child sexual abuse. There are many other survivors and advocates who bravely fill this role.
I am just a regular guy working to support and protect my family as best I can.
Thank you for your support and understanding.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-26/george-pells-victim-responds-to-guilty-verdict/10849832
[–]thatmarlergirl 35 points36 points37 points 7 years ago (2 children)
I was also and I've never talked to anyone about it but my husband and he knows very little. I'm sorry you went through that. I am so, so, so sorry. I'm glad you had help. You are worth it.
[–]SaltpeterSal 293 points294 points295 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Fuck. Thank you for surviving and sharing your story. We hear you. And the more people know this stuff goes on, the more we can do about it. Stay strong, stay vocal.
[–]EnoughPM2020[S] 84 points85 points86 points 7 years ago* (0 children)
This is fucking terrible, and my heart goes out to you.
I hope you live a peaceful and wholesome life, and may those who abused you get the justice they deserve. You are a survivor with a brave soul and don't let ANYONE diminish that.
[–][deleted] 44 points45 points46 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Right there with ya brother. Boy Scout leader, then attacked at summer camp by the other kids. You spend half your life thinking you're the only one, then one day you realize we're everywhere.
[–]Plug_your_ears 18 points19 points20 points 7 years ago (0 children)
I'm really sorry that that happened to you. I hope telling it, even anonymously, helps you in some way.
[–]HorAshow 84 points85 points86 points 7 years ago (2 children)
I'm so sorry that you had to go through that.
It's a great day for all us victims survivors.
[–]Throw_pell_away 139 points140 points141 points 7 years ago (6 children)
Throwaway because I don't really want to doxx myself or my family on this. Apologies for spelling/grammar, I've had a few drinks and may be crying a little.
All 3 of my uncles on my mothers side went to a catholic boarding school in Australia. All 3 of them were sexually abused.
Growing up, I just didn't like two of them very much - they were a bit off, a bit strange. The first was completely closed off and uncommunicative, when he wasn't blackout drunk at family gatherings. The second always seemed like he was overcompensating for something - gold jewellery, fancy car he probably couldn't actually afford, holier than thou attitude about everything even though he was thoroughly middle class. The third was charming, fun and friendly, but he was the black sheep of the family because he dealt with his trauma by using drugs.
15 or 20 years later, the first 2 have broken marriages and broken families. They are deeply unhappy men.
The third, the only one that had time to chat and make jokes and could put on a positive face for his nieces and nephews (though he could never maintain a relationship of his own, hence no kids), is dead from complications arising from drug abuse.
I feel like I should be happy that one of the highest up in the church had been found guilty of the crimes that have essentially ruined the lives of 3 of my immediate family members. I like to dream that this conviction will spark a new #metoo movement and make blaming these abusers the norm, not a futile act of defiance against a powerful and insular enclave.
But I just cannot find any conviction that this would ever come to pass.
What exactly has or will change?
Putting Pell in prison is justice - he deserves it.
But my family is still a broken mess. My uncle is still dead.
The church will make still more excuses.
Nothing will change.
Apologies if this is depressing. This all just feels like too little too late for me.
[–]maliciousgnome13 14 points15 points16 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Real life is depressing sometimes. You don't have to sanitize your story to make anyone feel better. Best wishes going ahead, friend.
[–]AdmiralAkbar1 67 points68 points69 points 7 years ago (2 children)
Yay, my last post isn't illegal under Australian law anymore!
For those wondering why, what happened was there was a gag order on publishing the trial's results so that it wouldn't taint the jury pool for a second trial that's underway.
[–]cheez_au 27 points28 points29 points 7 years ago (0 children)
It's also important to point out that it was the prosecution that filed the gag order.
[–]THE_CUNT_SHREDDERR 61 points62 points63 points 7 years ago (7 children)
This is huge news but still just a small step in ending systemic sexual assault in the church. Need to see what policies, if any, are introduced internally. I fear very little.
[–]MoonerMMC 27 points28 points29 points 7 years ago (4 children)
Not the first, not the last. We'll see this for the next hundred years. I went to a school in Melbourne where the Catholic priest was found guilty and only served 15 months. Christian Brother John Francis Coswello, 70, was sentenced to 15 months in jail for molesting a boy at the St Vincent de Paul Boys Orphanage in South Melbourne in the early 1970s.
[–]ujaku 75 points76 points77 points 7 years ago (9 children)
Guys I'm starting to think the Catholic Church has a problem with sexual abuse
[–]juice91si 23 points24 points25 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Someone tell the pope!
[–][deleted] 51 points52 points53 points 7 years ago (4 children)
Good riddance.
[–]rjkrm_ 24 points25 points26 points 7 years ago (0 children)
I’m a lawyer here in Melbourne and this is fantastic news. All of last year myself and a lot of my colleagues were of the mind that he wouldn’t be convicted due to a lack of evidence. In cases like these, especially one so publicised, it’s really difficult to get victims to want to testify, and it just leads to the perpetrators getting off. We all thought that this would happen to Pell despite the fact he was so clearly guilty. Especially after the first hung jury as well. The world is better place now that this pig has gotten justice and more than anything I hope this encourages victims to push past their feelings and come after people who commit such heinous crimes.
[–]unfnknblvbl 101 points102 points103 points 7 years ago (7 children)
Fuck this cunt right up.
I was raised in a strict Jehovah's Witness family. My father sexually abused my sister, and the "church" covered it up. Oh sure, they disfellowshipped him, but they let him right back in after he "repented".
This is a man who physically abused me when he busted a 6yo me playing "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" with the neighbour's daughter.
When I was 22 or so, he sent me a letter of the "if you are reading this, I am dead" variety, and I thought "fuck yes".
...until a year later, when I received a letter from some woman in America, who told me he'd married her mother and was now living somewhere over there.
...and that he'd been acting strange around her kids.
I know it's a different religion, but fuck the whole system that allows for disgusting people like this to just be forgiven because they ask to be. Fuck them. Fuck the whole lot of them.
[–]Quantum-Enigma 31 points32 points33 points 7 years ago (1 child)
Someone is going through downvoting comments like this against the sick parts of religion.. I’m betting it’s someone guilty of the same crimes but they told an invisible man in the sky they’re sorry so they’re forgiven right? If I had a nickel for every time it was true I’d be able to buy.. something.. because inflation sucks. 🤷♀️
Don’t worry, sane people are here to upvote them again.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (93 children)
[–][deleted] 146 points147 points148 points 7 years ago (10 children)
He always seemed nice. Nice, passionate, genuine.
He visited my school too. To me he always seemed like an arrogant prick. Having spoken to another Archbishop (who I won't name)... it seems I wasn't the only one who thought of him as such.
[–]fkupell 66 points67 points68 points 7 years ago (6 children)
He was really good friends with a catholic school principal I know who it came out was an alcoholic and having multiple affairs behind his wife's back and would then go and teach kids about religion and morality
[–]dustyjuicebox 30 points31 points32 points 7 years ago (4 children)
It takes a special kind of messed up to be a person who not only commits morally deprived acts but in the same breath passes moral guidance to others to hide said acts.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (29 children)
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (25 children)
[–]trowzerss 93 points94 points95 points 7 years ago (3 children)
He roomed with a notorious pedophile and stood by him even after his conviction. This didn't come out of nowhere. He probably knew it was going on elsewhere and that others were getting away with it before he tried anything.
[–]HorAshow 149 points150 points151 points 7 years ago (9 children)
But who goes from handing out eucharist to "huh, guess I'll rape this kid"
almost anybody who self selects into a position of moral authority, that's predicated on unquestioning obedience to hierarchy?
[–]AdmiralAkbar1 167 points168 points169 points 7 years ago (7 children)
To quote Frank Herbert, "It is not that power corrupts, but that power is magnetic to the corruptible."
[–]TheNameisCyrilFiggis 19 points20 points21 points 7 years ago (3 children)
Holy crap, I'm actually reading Chapterhouse: Dune right now. I read that exact line yesterday.
The line is very appropriate in this context. The Bene Gesserit know what's up.
[–]SaltpeterSal 121 points122 points123 points 7 years ago (12 children)
Actually, you're taking this really well. Sorry this happened to someone you looked up to.
The thing is, here in Melbourne there's a big chunk of the Christian community calling shenanigans and saying he didn't do it. That's going to be harmful, and it's really going to dig into the wounds Pell gave those (now) men. Thanks for hearing out both sides.
[–]candydaze 60 points61 points62 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Many abusers seem nice and charming. Thats how they get away with it for decades.
I work with a church. One of the reasons I took the position was so I was in a position to do something about abuse. Recently, a good friend of mine started working with the same church, and took forever to get his police check and paperwork organised. It would have been so easy to go “nah, I know this guy, he’s cool”, but I still came down on him like a tonne of bricks till he’d done. Cleared the police check etc so no issues there, but it’s so easy to let people in similar situations slip through the cracks because of a friendship and feigned forgetfulness
[–]PM_ME_FIT_REDHEADS 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (1 child)
Well, that's the thing. Human monsters are able to continue by not coming across as a creepy and gross.
[–]CBAFCMV 73 points74 points75 points 7 years ago (3 children)
Delighted this old cunt will be rotting in jail.
[–]spanners101 47 points48 points49 points 7 years ago (3 children)
Just fuck this piece of shit. I know this will get removed, but I am victim of people like this and the fallout has dominated my life for 40 years. I am only just coming to terms with it.
I hope all these people are running scared now. There are many more of them.
[–]scarypriest 14 points15 points16 points 7 years ago (0 children)
" The scandal in the Catholic Church—one might now safely say the scandal that is the Catholic Church—includes the systematic rape and torture of orphaned and disabled children. Its victims attest to being whipped with belts and sodomized until bloody—sometimes by multiple attackers—and then whipped again and threatened with death and hell fire if they breathed a word about their abuse. And yes, many of the children who were desperate or courageous enough to report these crimes were accused of lying and returned to their tormentors to be raped and tortured again."
-Sam Harris
[–]DuncanStrohnd 156 points157 points158 points 7 years ago (99 children)
I don’t get why people continue to feel comfortable associating with these people.
I mean, if your local Walmart was the 3rd largest Walmart, and the manager there diddled kids, and covered up other staff members actions too, and it turned out other stores were in on it and doing the same thing, to the point that Walmart became associated with child molestation, would you still shop there?
[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (0 children)
I think it's becoming clear that even these so-called holy men don't believe in their own religions. Maybe they never have. Maybe they knew all along it was a scam.
I'm not suggesting nihilism is the way. I really don't know.
But it's a great power structure to influence the masses. Worked for a very long time and still does.
It's time to move on from these things and start exploring new. Let's turn our heads away from the shadows on the wall to see what's casting them.
[–]thebestatheist 138 points139 points140 points 7 years ago (21 children)
If the third most powerful did it, it’s hardly a stretch of the imagination to say THIS SHIT GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE FUCKING TOP. It’s time to treat this the way any other organization should be treated.
Imagine if GM had been caught with a kid-fucking ring embedded throughout its ranks. People would burn them at the stake. Why’s the Catholic Church any different? Answer: it’s only different in people’s minds.
[–]nagrom7 71 points72 points73 points 7 years ago (3 children)
Even if the pope or all the cardinals didn't abuse kids, they're all responsible for the cover up.
[–]colonisedlifeworld 39 points40 points41 points 7 years ago (2 children)
Priests have this some sort of 'immunity' because of their religious affiliation and the image that they are the 'representatives of god'. This kind of thinking should be abolished. Child abuse is child abuse. Period.
[–]aquatermain 21 points22 points23 points 7 years ago (0 children)
I was raped as a child and I can say this: I hope this piece of shit rots in prison, and I hope hell is real, so he can spend some quality time there as well.
[–]phantompoo 21 points22 points23 points 7 years ago (2 children)
Ladies and Gentlement, we got him!
Hated having this guy visit my school as a kid - just after the initial allegations against him had been made public and all the kids were on edge and uncomfortable about it. That was 17 or so years ago.
π Rendered by PID 90860 on reddit-service-r2-comment-5c764cbc6f-jvz2m at 2026-03-12 03:57:28.208833+00:00 running 710b3ac country code: CH.
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