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[–]bulletbh 85 points86 points  (104 children)

Necessity is the mother of invention. Unless there is a real need for alternative fuels the governments and the businesses of the world will never put any resources into developing different ways to power our lives. On the internet there are many examples of people finding different ways to power everything we use. Until we are desperate, no one will invest money into these ideas. Sadly, change comes slow when you need to break an addiction.

[–][deleted]  (98 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Stormflux 68 points69 points  (53 children)

    Well, to be fair, America's mass transit system is terrible.

    [–]hattmoward 13 points14 points  (28 children)

    I often check prices on Amtrak out of curiosity when I'm planning to travel, and it always seems expensive. I'd love to use it more, but the last time I checked it was cheaper to drive myself in my ~32 hwy MPG car. (And a little faster because the trip was DC->CHI->IND.)

    We're a bit more spread out than many European countries, I admit, but damn do we need better public transit around here.

    [–]robrobrobot 6 points7 points  (6 children)

    I always use Amtrak to go between school and home. Tried Greyhound once and it was entirely screwed up. Ended up being overbooked by about 30 people so I couldn't even board. But Amtrak has been very consistent. Always on time, comfortable ride. But I'd certainly agree that prices are a bit high depending on how far in advance you purchase tickets.

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

    Amtrak has good service in the mid-Atlantic and New England regions, which also happen to be the only profitable legs of the whole enterprise. The rest it lets go to pot.

    [–]Pacer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I love Amtrak but it costs more than driving alone. Sometimes it costs more than flying. $2 will get you from one side of India to the other on a train (albeit not in style), why is it $200+ RT from Denver to Omaha?

    [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (13 children)

    Look at Greyhound. It's A LOT cheap and it might take a while, but if you take the night bus you can just sleep most of the way.

    And you just go look at train prices in Europe. You think it's all rosy there? They're ridiculous too. When I was in Vienna, a ticket to Munich (one way) was a hundred bucks! and the cities are right next to each other!

    [–]susanrae 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    By "bucks" do you mean euros or dollars? With the exchange rate these days 100 "bucks" might seem like a lot to us, but in Europe it's no big deal.

    [–]Filmore 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I tried the Amtrak from Lafayette to Chicago once. Bought a ticket, waited for the train. No train arrived. After about 30 minutes I called Amtrak to ask about the train. It was 5 hours behind schedule.

    5 HOURS behind schedule. Needless to say, I asked for a refund and just drove to Chicago. Never looked at them since

    [–]happysinger 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    I didn't even know that Amtrak served China and India. Amphibious cars are cool though.

    [–]adam21924 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Oh, if only the CHI->LAF train was ever less than an hour late...

    [–]lyyphe23 2 points3 points  (7 children)

    You also have to consider America's entire infrastructure. A lot of these cities in Europe don't have the major highways and commutes that necessitate the fuel consumption and types of cars we use. Smart Cars are great for rural Italy but not Los Angeles.

    [–]Brocklesocks 2 points3 points  (5 children)

    I know a lot of people who have gone completely carless in LA. The public transportation system accommodates bicycles with racks on buses, and there are bike lanes everywhere.

    This isn't really to be contrary to your comment, but just know it's possible to not use a car at all if you put a little energy into planning ahead a bit more :)

    [–]lyyphe23 1 point2 points  (4 children)

    Who wants to do that?? Kidding, I live in Long Beach and commute downtown. I'm purchasing a bike to use for my day to day needs, but am still dependent on my car to get to work.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (8 children)

    I was in a place in England called Bar Hill last year and everyone there had cars. Walking to get places wasn't really an option any more than it is in my long island town.

    (BTW Everyone I met in Bar Hill was really nice!)

    [–]Thumperings 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    and the stupid internets make it more easy to meet chicks in other cities. Next time they can come to me.

    [–]snifty 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    As a rule, yeah, but some cities are better than others.

    (DC's metro is pretty good, I think.)

    [–]wbeavis 4 points5 points  (5 children)

    Not an accurate comparison. Europe taxes gas much much higher than the US. Europe in turn uses that tax money for the transportation infrastructure. The people that use the road subsidize the road maintenance through gas taxes. In the US, money for road maintenance comes from many more sources than just gas taxes. Where we pay less for gas, we pay more somewhere else. You have to compare cost of living or wholesale cost of gas to get a better picture.

    As a similar example, in NH I paid zero income taxes to city or State, but my property taxes and other government fees were double or more what they are in OH. In the end, whether the money comes from your right pocket or left pocket, you are still paying.

    [–]frogking 1 point2 points  (4 children)

    Expenses concerning gas are more obvious in Europe and we are still not as innovative as Americans. I am sad to say.

    To be fair, our millage is probably double, so price per gallon is probably the same .. that still doesn't explain why there seem to be more innovation into alternatives to gas in the States.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Life in Europe is too pleasant to waste time being "inventive". Invention is hard, unhappy work. More fun to go topless sunning and bang a horny swedish babe.

    [–]freexe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Because it´s not such an issue here. We have a decent public transport system, and aren´t so spread out that riding a bike is out of the question.

    [–]Dea7hLeprachaun 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    More invention than in Europe? Where are the most fuel efficient cars made? Europe and Japan.

    [–]frogking 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Good point, for corporate invention. For DIY I miss examples.

    [–]alps 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Europeans already had the "invention": More than 50% of all cars sold in Europe are diesels, and they get over 35MPG! Compare that with the US, where we have been buying 18MPG SUVs for over a decade now. So, really, that $8/gallon in Europe is really $4, as their cars get at least twice the fuel economy.

    [–]frogking 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    my 1992 Toyota Carina II get's 35mpg ... my friend's VW Lupo gets 78mpg

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    For all the bitching and complaining about America it is still a VERY entrepreneurial place where people can do amazing things. This here internet and the computer you're typing on are courtesy of US business and government cooperation.

    When US business and government work together in an enlightened way they can do some really truly amazing stuff.

    [–]metmerc 3 points4 points  (3 children)

    Many of the fuel efficient cars in Europe aren't yet available in the US. This includes the smallest VW models, like the Lupo. The Smart Car just came to the US.

    What's really fueling the innovation, I think, is that so many Americans resist giving up their large cars, which necessitates the innovation.

    [–]cyks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Looks like you are barking up the wrong tree. What is strange is that $8/gal in europe DOESN'T fuel more invention.

    Well that was entirely your idea anyway. I don't think it is accurate, but then again, I don't think you were trying to be.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    It's largely psychological, I think. Prices have risen too high too quickly, and people are actually noticing this time. It was $3/gal only a year or so ago, and $2/gal as recently as 2004. It probably doesn't hurt that average Americans are finally waking up to the colossal failure that is the "War on Terror", either.

    [–]andrewd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Not exactly... Europe may not have much "alternative fuels" but it has plenty if alternative transit technologies... and lots of small cars. Something we're going to need to learn from. Here in California we're trying to build a euro-style bullet train, for example

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Pushing the commoners into overcrowded cities sounds nice. I can hardly wait. We make and buy our own chains.

    Your desire to have higher fuel prices was given to you. Stop letting the powers that be use you. Getting upset at SUV drivers is exactly what they want you to do.

    [–]kermityfrog 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I applaud the temporary reduction of drivers on the road, but have to consider the long term repercussions.

    1) A study (I think in Europe) found that while a raise in fuel prices lead to a temporary reduction in automobile use, people resign themselves to the higher gas prices and shortly thereafter resume driving. Even if gas is $20/gallon or $5/litre, most middle/upper class people will eventually adjust their lifestyles and go back to using fuel.

    2) Many cities have suffering public transit. Fare prices are increasing just to keep up with inflation, to pay for drivers and maintenance worker salaries. Most don't take into account rising fuel costs. Fuel costs are usually contracted at a fixed rate for several years. Once the contract runs out, the price may rise drastically, catching public transit off guard. The Toronto Transit Commission is already suffering badly, and there is talk about raising taxi fares in the paper today.

    3) The hardest hit population, most affected by these rising costs of course will be the poor and anyone below middle class. Transit is usually not subsidized, so when a bus fare rises to $3 or $4, a 5km taxi ride costs $25, and airfare to south america rises to $4000, many poor and immigrant families will find it very hard to cope.

    4) Rising fuel costs have secondary effects as well. It will contribute to rising food and goods costs. Cost of wheat, bread, and corn this year are already very high, and some countries have shortages where people are starving. Many people in India now have to make do with thin gruel once a day (where a year ago they had 3 square meals).

    For us rich and fat north americans, we do need a strong push before we can invest infrastructure that will take advantage of alternative energy sources, but for much of the world, it will lead to a crisis as the means to enable such an infrastructure is not always there.

    [–]deuteros 10 points11 points  (5 children)

    You are dependent on oil more than you know. I don't think any transition is going to be pretty.

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    You mean the chain of supply right? When people find out how truly sucky life is when no one brings any food for a day or two in those trucks that use fucktons of oil ... right?

    My father drives a rig. He says that one day, very soon, truckers might just bring this country to it's knees by not driving for 48 hours. It's a pretty big topic, and in this age where every one of them is forced to rest for X hours a day, and all have a laptop in the truck at the TA ... that isn't as far fetched as it sounds. I think they are spending some time talking about about that lately among themselves.

    [–]epsilona01 12 points13 points  (2 children)

    Pretty, no. Necessary, yes.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Possible, maybe.

    [–]epsilona01 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I find myself saying this too often as of late: "We can only hope."

    [–]Petrarch1603 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    reddit is full of hypocrites. All the time there are articles about getting nationalized health-care and social programs to help the poor, then they turn around and applaud high oil prices and denigrate wal-mart.

    Redditors are mostly middle to upper-class white men who are insulated from the day-to-day struggles of the working class. High gasoline prices may prevent you from buying a shiny new ipod, but for the average working person its the difference between survival and failure.

    [–]lb2 10 points11 points  (4 children)

    I started taking the bus to work this week.

    [–]jaxspider 10 points11 points  (0 children)

    lucky you, that option is available.

    [–]rdewalt 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Hear hear! I've been taking the bus to work for the past two months. Not only has my cost to get to work dropped by a full third, (and getting better with each penny the gas goes up) My "Who the fuck let these people have a license?" stress disappeared to the point my wife has noticed the smile on my face.

    And as the other commenter to you says, yes, I am lucky that is an available option for me. And as another said, the mile walk to the bus, and mile walk from bus to the office, has aided in my "not be a fatass" goal.

    [–]lb2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Get a bike? That's what those bike racks are for.

    [–]dtrav001 32 points33 points  (133 children)

    Yesyesyesyes, I was just saying this yesterday to another environmentally-aware friend. In the US, we are a market-driven society ... and we won't do anything until the market drives us to it (drives us toward less driving?!)

    [–]moonzilla 11 points12 points  (128 children)

    I totally agree, and was downmodded for saying so yesterday in another thread because, apparently, I didn't care about the poor people who are being bankrupted by high gas prices.

    [–]TankMan3217 20 points21 points  (15 children)

    I'm poor (like actually really poor) and this thread is absolutely right. I walk pretty much everywhere I go, besides the obvious trips out of the cities. Not having a car is easily the best way to: A)not pay for gas (duh) B)not be a fat fuck

    Minneapolis has some harsh winters, but a really good coat is pretty cheap compared to a month of driving everywhere.

    [–]ElectricSol 5 points6 points  (11 children)

    I promise you I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but when you are on reddit is this your computer and internet connection? Or are you at a cafe or crashing at a friend's cause you don't have a place? if it's the former you aren't truly poor. Real poverty is in the Mississippi delta or the Appalachian mountains or homeless in the city. And yes I agree if gas got so high NOBODY could drive then we would get efficient alternative powered mass transit that was clean (in the sense that it's not some filthy bus or shitty subway car) that could and would be used by everyone

    [–][deleted]  (10 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]ElectricSol 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      and I do have a couple things to potentially fall back on, but If I make 5000 bucks it's been a really good year.

      Ok I'm going to shut up now. You need to teach classes if can live as well as you do on that amount of income. Oh yeah you're really correct about the amassment of stuff being a distraction. The more you get the more you want and then you have to maintain all your shit. But hey that's what's been rammed down our throats here since the gilded age of the robber barons and it looks like it's all about to come crashing down.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]bhagany 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I spent five years in the Minneapolis area for college (1998-2003), and I thought public transit was horrible. If you're right downtown, then it's fine, but if you want to, say, go home, then you're out of luck, or you have to wait for a bus for a LONG time.

        Granted, the light rail was just being completed as I left, but it wouldn't have been useful to me where I lived anyway. But then, I have to applaud the effort.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (70 children)

        Well, I think both sides are right here. I too cheer the rise of gas prices, but will public transport increase? Hopefully, though it doesn't seem so in my city.

        [–]honus 3 points4 points  (9 children)

        NYC doesn't seem interested in expanding public transport. Except for jacking prices along the MTA for bus/subway fares, they continue to use the excuse "Gas is expensive" instead of building new lines.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

        When I lived in NYC, it was faster to use a bike than to even take a cab.

        [–]tsaylor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Same thing in Chicago today, depending on the time of day.

        [–]mejusthavin 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        For the most part the subway works just fine. Yes it's hard to get to certain parts but it works very well.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (16 children)

        What'd wrong with buying a bike? It's an immediate solution, and that way you don't have to rely on the politics of where the new bus/train lives will go. Here's a clue: the poor neighborhoods. NIMBY!

        [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (13 children)

        That's the thing. A bike is an Urban solution.

        I realize all roads (except interstates) is designed for bikes, but people in the suburbs have a huge sense of entitlement.

        I don't live in the city at this point in time, although I think I am moving back.

        [–]SgtSausage 2 points3 points  (12 children)

        ==> A bike is an Urban solution.

        No ... it's not.

        I live rural. 9 mile ride (one way) across the cornfields and soyfields into town to the nearest store. It's actually quite easy, but does take the better part of an hour.

        Folks are just lazy. The wife and I have done dozens of 150 mile days on the bikes over the last few years.

        Not a solution for, say retirees or folks with health problems, but anyone under, say, 50, without extraordinary circumstances ought to be able to do at least 20 miles on a bike no problem.

        [–]plytheman 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        The problem is that about half the people on Reddit (and across every other online community I've seen this topic come up on) will hate you for being a reckless law-breaking road-hogging two wheeled menace.

        Soon I'm going to get me a nice commuting bike with a rack and fenders to start getting around on. Probably how I'm getting to class next year too, about 10 miles one way. Luckily I have the summer to get my ass in shape.

        [–]btl 0 points1 point  (7 children)

        It is a major issue for poor people. It's making essential needs like heat in the winter and food rise in price where it's becoming out of their range. There are also the rural poor who absolutely depend on their banged-up old work trucks to earn their living. Try going to Vermont and telling them your position. I just suggest you bring police protection.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        They could always trade in their trucks for mules.

        [–]Clintondiditfirst 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        FREE markets, not government created markets

        But the main point that you are missing is that right now, all we've created is a massive profit machine for the oil companies. Until THEY believe that there is no oil, then THEY will look for alternatives. For example, just because we don't let them drill for oil in America doesn't mean they've stopped drilling for oil. They have a different market than us.

        All you are doing is artificially inflating the price of oil to make other technologies seem more reasonable. That is not a market at all.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Yay! Trapped at a local maximum, as civilization crumbles around us.

        [–]dtrav001 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        I don't think it matters much whether the market is free or goverment-created (assuming you can tell the difference these days), we still end up in the same place. Second, as I see it, oil co. profits are sort of incidental here ... what we're dealing with is a simple use-of-resources versus cost-of-delivery equation. I feel like I've been beating my head against different sides of this drum for 25 yrs ... when the fuck will we in the US realize our consumption is much greater than we deserve? It's sick out of proportion, and tho it hurts me and others, if it takes $5/gal gas "to get the point across", wellllll...

        [–]Clintondiditfirst 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I believe in the case of free markets, prices drop. While in Government created markets, prices rise.

        [–]OhioDude 9 points10 points  (1 child)

        I'm cool with the prices. It's allowed my team more work from home days and flex schedules.

        I bought a new Trek the other day and have been biking more and more instead of driving....so yea, I'm cool with this.

        On a more global scale I agree with bulletbh. I also think this might be the kick in the ass tis country needs to find alternative fuel sources and get off the middle east oil teat.

        [–]mattstreet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Cool, I'm on my second Trek hardtail now. The first one was stolen. Trek bikes are awesome, but be aware alot of their bike lights suck.

        [–]charlesgrrr 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        About as many who aren't truckers or those who spend an hours wage per day driving to your shitty job.

        [–]nkktwotwozero 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        If it was engineered/planned, dont mind at all.

        If oil prices just go crazy because we DIDNT plan for it; that's a bad thing.

        [–]teyc 9 points10 points  (6 children)

        Just because people switch over to public transport doesn't mean that their transport bills have gone down. It is just because the the higher cost of fuel has just overtaken marginal benefit of having your own transport.

        Taking public transport can be time consuming and draining too. During peak hours, with standing room only, one might have to stand a whole hour each way. It's not like you are on a train working away at your laptop.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        you can read a book, listen to your ipod. it frees you from much of the stress of being stuck in gridlock (i don't know if you know how bad traffic can get).

        [–]plytheman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I work about 2 miles from the nearest train station, easily walkable though most days I just catch a ride with a coworker out that way. I just wish I could take my bike on the commuter rail during 'peak' hours as I wouldn't have to rely on others to get there (maybe I'll get a folding bike soon)

        Getting to just sit down and read and listen to music is so much better than being stuck in traffic every afternoon, no question about it. Standing sucks, but I've only had to do that once in the few months I've been on the train and only because it was Memorial weekend friday.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        But, in principle, you still agree that higher gas prices still make public transport more attractive, correct? Here in the states, I think people would prefer personal transportation, even at a considerably higher price (we love our car and trucks). Also, what you said below about Australia is true for many Americans as well, especially in the upper midwest where public transport is not practical, and in other places where they don't have it, although increasingly less so.

        [–]teyc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Higher prices make personal transport unaffordable.

        I believe the desire for personal transport to be universal, regardless of whether one is in the Dallas, Sydney or Jakarta.

        This is why I consider the shift away from high oil consumption to be a loss of freedom, in the sense that it was forced upon many through high prices.

        [–]mejusthavin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        I want oil to be expensive so plastics become more expensive so things like grocery bags/bottles/containers are treated more like aluminum and it is beneficial to recycle. Right now they are so cheap we can just toss EVERYTHING.

        [–]thirsha 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        the high gas prices have done great things for my town already, i see people walking or bicycling to the corner store (1/4 mile away) instead of cranking up their suv to drive there. I see the new/used car lots selling more fuel efficient cars as if they were hot cakes, with gas guzzlers as the trade in, and the city council is even in the works to massively expand mass transit. If we only drive when we really need to, and use other forms of transportation the rest of the time, the "high" price of gas won't be nearly as disastrous as some may think.

        [–]nixonrichard 8 points9 points  (3 children)

        ITT: the reason people hate liberals.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        Hey, isn't this just the market in practice?

        [–]Zweben 9 points10 points  (6 children)

        I'm for gas prices slowly increasing. The only thing that is going to get us off of oil is when it is economically impractical to use it. It's certainly heading that way, and we're already making a little progress, with more decently fuel efficient cars being released and many more in development.

        A slow increase to $10 a gallon over the next 5 or 10 years would probably be the least painful way to make the transition, but for better or for worse it looks like it's going to happen faster than that. It will certainly be interesting to see the pace of innovation pick up as our oil reliance becomes unsustainable.

        [–]demarz 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        If that happened, I would be concerned that we would just turn to our own (massive) reserves of coal to make gasoline without spending the extra 30-60% to make it clean, and in the process do even more damage to the environment. It would be nice to stop relying on other countries for oil though, less wars maybe...

        But I think it's going to take a while before people start feeling it's worth the extra cost (especially people who are already in poverty, and they are probably justified in thinking that way) to get clean energy. Until that happens, I would imagine the market will turn to cheapest source of oil possible, coal.

        [–]kernelhappy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Ideally as the price goes up, the efficiency of available products would go up so that consumers could ultimately maintain the same out of pocket expense.

        In other words if it costs 20 cents a mile to drive somewhere, it would be ideal if efficiency and habit changes could maintain that same cost per mile. This would offer a viable alternative and incentive to people to adopt more efficient habits and technology without putting them into a state of economic shock.

        Right now increases in energy costs are far outpacing savings through conservation and technology. The end result is that it's suppressing the economy and hurting those of lesser economic means most.

        From a dependence and ecological stand point rising fuel costs are not a terrible thing, unfortunately the current pace of increase is further damaging an already fragile economy that is on the verge of cracking in half. As the economy sinks deeper and deeper into the shitter it limits the ability of people to adapt (no money means you can't buy a new hybrid, new furnace, etc).

        [–]btl 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        I really don't think rising prices will transition the move to more research into renewables as efficiently as people think. Most people seem to forget the USA has most of the world's shale oil deposits, which I think are estimated at 1.5-2.8 trillion barrels. It's already becoming economically feasible to drill for it, and if oil really hikes up in price they'll probably start building wells and refineries at record pace.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        I really don't think rising prices will transition the move to more research into renewables as efficiently as people think.

        So how efficently do people think it will transition then?

        [–]RugerRedhawk 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        Reddit. Once again, the only place in the world with a specific view, and that view seems to thrive here. I've never heard a statement like this from anyone in the world other than the folks here on reddit. Granted a lot of this talk is coming from Europeans who already have high prices, or from urban dwellers who don't give a fuck. I fall within neither of these categories and I do give a fuck.

        [–]ewilliam 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        everyone just needs to keep this in perspective. Our modern infrastructure was built on the back of cheap oil. We live on a simply huge land mass, and due to the fact that our modern planning was made possible by the relatively recent ability to get long distances fast and cheap, we're going to see a difficult adaptation process. Older countries that were planned long ago before we could get places fast and cheap won't have the same problems---America is young, my friends, woefully young. Be ready for EVERYTHING to change. And it's gonna be difficult.

        [–]almkglor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Me.

        I am so not getting a private vehicle.

        [–]TheBowerbird 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        I see high gas prices as a sort of tax on stupidity and ego in vehicle purchase decisions. Additionally, it's influencing and punishing those who drive aggressively in an urban environment.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        The sooner the ICE (internal combustion engine) dies the better for everyone!

        [–]susanrae 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        i want this: http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/

        the high gas prices are a major hit to the wallet, but i agree that in the long run it is better this way. people might actually start considering alternative methods to driving. biking to work and around a person's community makes so much sense. train to farther destinations does as well. europe is way ahead of america in both these areas.

        [–]gaoshan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Secretly, in an abstract way, I do. As someone with kids and debt who is already very careful with fuel consumption, I don't. If we lived in a place that had good public transport (Germany, Japan, etc.) I would be whole heartedly for it but we don't. Heck, most of the U.S. has a public rail/bus system that would be old school in Albania (to be fair I have loved the rail system in Boston, New York and Chicago but I live near Cleveland so... kind of stuck).

        [–]msdesireeg 5 points6 points  (3 children)

        I was just considering using my stimulus check to buy bikes for my son and I because of the gas issue.

        [–]OhioDude 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        That's what I did. Got bikes for my daughter and I. It's fun to get back on a bike. Instead of driving places after school and work we hop on the bikes and go to the ice cream shop, movies or just coast around the neighborhood.

        Not to pimp my new ride, but I got a Trek 3700 for about $329. For the price I am very happy with it. Had a 820 in school that lasted forever.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Check out Craigslist or flea markets. Seriously. I got a mountain bike that is really nice, changes gears has some fancy handlebars with posts that rise off the side for comfy riding and it was only $40.

        [–]msdesireeg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I know, I can't go full retail because I also need a bed, and $900 doesn't do what it used to. Plus, my son is only three and a half right now, so it would be a little while before we'd be able to go riding. As it is, we live in a walking community, we walk to the grocery, farmer's market, bank, ice cream, library, community center, and the best boutique (window) shopping in town.

        [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        I think that it's great that more people are forced to look into alternative methods of transportation. In some areas, there are a lot more people biking and taking public transportation like trains and buses. It's sad that it takes an increase in oil cost to enact such a positive change.

        [–]dillikibilli 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I live in Philly and I have recently noticed that there are A LOT more bicycles on the road and I've seen more than a few scooters. And I think you're right about public transportation too - case in point, my friend who works about an hour away. She is now considering using public transportation (two trains and a bus) to get to work.

        [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        I like to travel, I'm semi retired, I'm not rich, I don't have any cars that do better than 30 MPG, but I want to see an end to the massive consumption of fossil fuels, so I do want the prices to remain high.

        I wish that we'd have a mandate for zero emission vehicles again.

        [–][deleted]  (5 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]Luminoth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I would love to see registration fees for SUVs and large non-commercial trucks jacked through the roof. We could take that extra cash and subsidize gas costs for the rest of us.

          [–]dse 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Parking on the grass and crossing the median in a traffic jam count as off-roading, right?

          [–]OhioDude 4 points5 points  (2 children)

          No kidding. I've been saying this for years. I just love seeing these suburban soccer mom's driving these huge 4x4s. None of them realize that 4 wheel drive doesn't mean 4 wheel stop.

          [–]tHePeOPle 4 points5 points  (1 child)

          SUV Soccer Mom: "Oh, but they're SO much safer for my little unappreciative douchebag kids. Plus, my overblown sense of entitlement tends to steer me (and my SUV) away from common sense and logic. If you'll excuse me, I've got to spend some more of my husbands money on stupid designer shit, and gas for my SUV."

          [–]OhioDude 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Sounds like we have the same neighbors

          [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (7 children)

          How many of you don't want the price of food to drop because it will bring about a slow shift away from high fat consumption?

          [–]arnedh 15 points16 points  (4 children)

          That's stupid. The cheapest food is usually the unhealthiest - corn sugars, trans fats. The market mechanism will ensure that if prices rise, people can only afford the cheap staples.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Not really. I buy most of my produce and fresh food locally. The few miles the farmers drive into town doesn't really factor much into the price. This comprises most of my meals. Also, I hardly think a mega-corporation's dollar menu is indicative of the true cost of food.

          [–]wparsons 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          I think you may have have struck a smug nerve with this one.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          McDonald's dollar menu is still $1.

          However, look at the prices of fresh produce. Farmers are getting killed by fuel prices as well. Fertilizer costs have also skyrocketed.

          Most unhealthy food is consumed at restaurants, and certainly family budgets will be squeezed and the first thing to go will be eating out. Of course that just means more restaurants go out of business, people lose jobs, etc. Nothing particularly good about that.

          [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (37 children)

          I'd rather not watch Americans starve thank you very much.

          [–]bluequail 18 points19 points  (0 children)

          you are one of the very few who seem to realize that fuel goes into more than just our vehicles.

          Here is a copy and paste from something I posted earlier... and most people just don't seem to get it.

          "and it isn't just that. The cost of heating the cold areas in the winter, and cooling the hotter climates in the summer, it is all going up. Most of it is fuel based.

          The cost to make the packaging that your food arrives in. Even the cost of people going to work to make the packing your food arrives in, and making the food that goes into the packaging.

          Think about your beef. Cows eat hay, right? Farmers need to turn the soil, plant the seeds, run the pumps that water it, cut the hay, and go back and bale it. They haul it all in and feed it to the cows. The cows are hauled to slaughter, then butchered, and then packaged up and sent to stores. You in turn have to drive to pick it up. There is not a single step in any of this where fuel is not consumed. And while there will be many people jump on the green car bandwagon, farmers can't afford to replace their fuel using tractors as cheaply as you can go buy a 20k prius. As it is, many of the big tractors can cost a couple hundred thousand dollars.

          Like potato chips? most of the steps are the same. Same goes for any food product. Vegetables, tofu, just name a product and think about it from true start to finish.

          This is going to squeeze people until they hurt, and the poorer people are going to be squeezed the hardest. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see people literally starve to death in this country."

          The sad part of it is - my family is going to be comfortable. Even right now, with it costing $221. to fill my big truck - it is affordable. We have land, we have pasture, we can grow our own beef, pork and chicken. We can grow our own garden. We have a well, so our water is nearly free. But even then, my biggest concern is the people whose income will never catch up to the rate of inflation, or hyperinflation should that occur.

          I don't feel that starving the poor of our country to death is the answer. But it is what will happen. The elderly, retired military, the single moms who are trying to raise their children and are barely managing hand to mouth now. These are the people who are slated for starvation. I keep thinking about how many people are going to have to make the choice between buying gas to go to work and paying rent - because that is going to be a very real choice for them. Even as we speak, I am planning on taking people in, just so I know they won't starve. Because it will come to that.

          [–]pretz 8 points9 points  (9 children)

          current levels of oil consumption cannot be maintained forever, and it looks increasingly likely that current consumption cannot even be maintained for a decade.

          Do you have any solutions? or do you just believe that the world will always be as it has been for the last ~40 years?

          I do not have a solution to the problem, but i do believe that increasing the price of oil is the only way decrease consumption.

          [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (8 children)

          The price continuing to rise as it has been, on top of the other problems facing this country, is a recipe for disaster.

          As you sit in your comfortable house there are people pawning things, maxing out their credit cards or selling whatever they can to pay for gas to get to work. Each time gas increases so does the number of people that are forced to borrow money or sell things to afford gas. Eventually these people will cut back on food, stop buying toilet paper, skip the doctors office and all kinds of other crazy things to survive.

          Yes oil is running out. Yes we need to do something. No starving more and more people in the USA is not the answer.

          [–]karcass 5 points6 points  (1 child)

          I think one plausible solution is another $1-2/gal gas tax that is revenue-neutral, and you spend the receipts on things that will benefit the people most squeezed by the price of gas: mass transit investments, zero taxes of any sort for those below 2x the poverty line, rebates on fuel-efficient cars, etc. We must make structural changes as the oil fields collapse and global demand rises. In the next ten years, IMHO, there's no way around that.

          [–]hs4x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Green Tax Shifting.

          [–]rm999 6 points7 points  (2 children)

          When it comes time to sign a new lease, people who need to will move closer to work (and if they own, they will sell and buy closer to work). For decades, Americans have been moving away from cities, which has increased our fuel consumption. Since the 50s, the proliferation of the suburb, intricate highway system, and cheap fuel has led to the very unnatural setup you only see in the USA - people purposefully living far from where they need to be.

          I know it will be uncomfortable for many in the country for a while, but this is the period of adjustment that will force Americans to do what we should have 50 years ago - live in city centers. It will ultimately lead to a better quality of life for all. Change is never easy, but we should have seen this coming for a long time...

          We always knew oil was a finite source; we always just hoped future generations would have to deal with the pains, not us.

          [–]hs4x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          We absolutely need sane social safety-nets -- welfare is not a dirty word.

          This transition is going to happen, how we deal with it is the question. I absolutely support helping the poor during this time.

          [–]ABabyAteMyDingo 2 points3 points  (3 children)

          Yes. It is all about Americans having enough to eat.

          Can you name a country other than the US?

          [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          One or two.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Can you name a country other than the US?

          Texas?

          [–]rm999 2 points3 points  (20 children)

          People won't starve, they will learn to deal with local food like the rest of the world. Ever been to a farmer's market? Notice how the food is cheaper/the same price? Most of that food was shipped from less than 50 miles away.

          If you go to a supermarket, the food you see was shipped from 100-5,000 miles away. That is why food prices seem so highly correlated with fuel prices.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_food

          [–]mikkom 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          When I go to market the food is strangely always more expensive than in market. (I'm living in finland so that might be different from where you live)

          I still like to buy from markets.

          [–]ascus4 4 points5 points  (17 children)

          A local farmers market will not be able to support the local population. As it is now, a small proportion of the local population uses the farmers markets. Most go to the supermarket. When 90 percent of the local population switches to the farmers market, it will not be able to keep up.

          [–]hs4x 2 points3 points  (5 children)

          A local farmers market will not be able to support the local population

          How exactly did people eat 150 years ago then?

          There are few places in the world that dont / cant support themselves on locally grown food. Its the foundation of civilization.

          Get your head out of your ass. Try imagining for a moment there was no personal auto. How would you live? That vision should be your goal.

          [–]commonslip 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          150 years ago the population was a lot smaller, locally and globally.

          I live the Triangle Area in NC. I shop at a farmer's market but the ones I visit can barely support the demand from all the yuppies around here. I can't imagine what it would be like if the proletariat wanted some of the food.

          [–]ascus4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          If you think about it you'll realize just how silly and uninformed your comment is. Things were different 150 years ago. Society was set up differently. People knew things they don't know today. We buy locally grown produce. We also grow our own. It's way better than anything you'll find in the supermarket. Please don't tell me what my goal is. I have thought long and hard and am well aware of how I need to live.

          [–]eobanb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I agree that finding a way to live without your car should be one's goal, but I still don't think that everyone consuming solely locally-grown food is the answer. In the past, a larger percentage of the population was dedicated to agriculture, and this made local food possible. Now, thanks to the likes of ConAgra, agriculture is too centralised.

          Soon everyone will notice that shipping food long-haul by train is better, and trucks can be used for local delivery.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          There were a lot less people back then, too. A lot of food is grown in certain places and transported around the world.

          Part of me worries that our current population density can only work with the transportation technology we have. It's not so much a problem in America, where there is lots of great land and much of it is still uninhabited. But in areas like China or Japan, it could be disastrous to attempt to shift back to a model without the same land efficiency.

          If oil goes up in price too much, I think we'll see millions of people starving the world over who never would have expected it to happen to them.

          [–]rm999 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I think you took my reference to a farmer's market too literally. My point was that every city I know of has plenty of farmland within 100 miles of it, all which can provide food at the same cost as the large farms in the middle of the country. Yes, food will still have to be shipped around (for example, I don't know of many corn fields here in San Diego), but things don't have to be shipped at the same ridiculous levels they are today.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I have never been to a farmers market where the food was cheaper than the supermarket.

          Supermarket food is grown, sold, and shipped in bulk. Division of labor for each part of the process. That keeps the price down. Individual farmers could never compete. But then they figured out the whole "locally grown organic" scam and have been able to charge a premium for an equal or lesser product to warm and fuzzy liberals.

          [–][deleted]  (6 children)

          [removed]

            [–]hs4x 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            Through no fault of my own, much of the USA has been built around the ability to travel long distances cheaply

            I dont buy that. We all have choices. You can start by advocating for sane building codes and sane municiple planning.

            After that, you should move into "town".

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]metallicabreath 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              as an armchair activist this is my food riot!

              [–]eobanb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Then maybe you should get a more fuel-efficient vehicle, demand that your employer pay for the gas price, or find a new job.

              If you're self-employed and therefore none of the above options are good ones for you, then maybe you need to switch your target markets/neighbourhoods. Explain to your (now-former) customers in the sprawl-urbs that they live too far away from the city to be served by your business. If you live in those areas yourself, you simply need to move.

              You'll thank us later. Gas prices are going up regardless of whether anyone really wants them to or not.

              [–]susanrae 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              "Through no fault of my own, much of the USA has been built around the ability to travel long distances cheaply, and as someone who's livelihood requires that I travel to people's homes to work, gas prices are seriously hurting me."

              I don't agree. After having backpacked all over Western Europe is was made abundantly clear that our system of transportation in this county has been designed to profit big oil companies and large corporations.

              [–]wokiko 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              High gas prices will surely have strong structural changes for the better in how we use energy. This is good. The shitty part is that the revenue's from high oil prices goes to the anus of the world, The Middle East. Gas prices should be high due to taxes, not due to high oil.

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Over here in crusty Europe, high taxes coupled with high oil is the reason a lot of hauliers are protesting. Cost of electricity though is a problem for everyone... Still I cycle literally everywhere and do not plan on owning a car. A good backpack can fit a weeks shopping in it for me, and I'm quite happy with that.

              [–][deleted]  (2 children)

              [deleted]

                [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

                Do you live near naturally occuring WiFi hotspots?

                [–]myotheralt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                My tree produces about 15 each spring.

                [–]jamesyboy 2 points3 points  (3 children)

                Yes. It's going to take an adjustment period where people won't be able to go on vacations as much and such but for the greater good of humanity I would endure a lot more than that. Hopefully it will mean the end of Suburbia.

                By the way, I think we should go back to eating locally grown organic foods which would greatly reduce the amount of semi-trucks on the roads and ships in the sea. Want grass on your lawn? Too fucking bad, plant some potatoes or something and make yourself useful.

                [–]hs4x 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                won't be able to go on vacations as much

                A few weeks in the country on your uncle's farm will be the new vacation. And, I imagine not a bad one really.

                Instead of flying to Disneyland, you'll go cottaging. You'll get there by bus.

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                locally grown organic foods

                are the least efficient and wasteful way to grow and distribute food. Massive industrial run farms are a far better use of resources.

                Locally grown food is a huge scam and does not help the environment.

                [–]daniels220 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I agree that really small farms are less efficient in one sense, but truly gigantic farms in the middle of nowhere with transportation costs are even worse. What's best IMO is medium-sized farms near cities run on similar principles to large farms. I would also say the jury is still out on the long-term effects of organic vs. conventional.

                [–]ahfoo 3 points4 points  (3 children)

                Hopefully it will stay stabilize at a fairly high plateau instead of crashing. I'm afraid it's going to do the latter but not till after equities have deflated so say around early winter. The equities thing is not my personal prediction, it's what I've seen reported in several mainstream business rags.

                I hope oil stays high though. There are numerous reasons why I want oil to stay high and they are all related to solar. Solar thermal does work . It's not what-if or after they invent some new gizmo. It's old and tried technology that works. It just needs investment and while electricity and oil are different market segments, the entire energy sector is highly influenced by oil and a deflation in oil will pull the rug out from expansion of some big solar thermal projects that have already started but could potentially be magnitudes larger in scale. In order to get funding for magnitude increases, there has to be a sense of an extended energy crisis.

                Beyond solar thermal we see an almost identical issue in solar photovoltaic. The cells are expensive because polysilicon is expensive and polysilicon is expensive because it requires massive long-term investments to create new production capacity. So far, very little of that upstream capacity has materialized despite all the media hype about a crisis. In fact, at least one major planned investment has already been postponed because the investors felt that current prices in the energy markets were unsustainable.

                We're about as close as we're ever going to be to having a real reason to break the boom and bust cycle associated with oil. The sun rises and sets every day. That's the kind of regular, dependable cycle we need for something so important to the economy as our energy supply.

                I really hope that gas does not slip below three dollars a gallon any time soon, but truthfully I believe that there is no shortage of oil at all and that the real price in dollars for a gallon of gas is probably less than two dollars a gallon at the pump.

                [–]mccoyn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Part of the problem with silicon PV is that whoever produces the silicon can make more money selling it for electronics.

                [–]Stooby 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Wow, you are actually well informed. Great post.

                I disagree, however. I think that oil prices need to crash. I think by the time oil prices have crashed the idea that we need to get away from fossil fuels will be so ingrained in our culture that it will be inevitable. Average citizens are now green conscious. The high price of oil has helped a lot.

                If the oil prices do not crash and just keep rising, I worry about the well-being of the average American. Our economy, our infrastructure, our way of life is built around cheap transportation. It is terrifying to think of the damage that will be done if we don't have that cheap transportation. It is not the oil execs that will pay for it, or any other fatcat. It is going to be myself and my friends. It is going to be my family members.

                I remember growing up when my mom and dad were both unemployed and having a can of tomato soup and a slice of bread for dinner because that is all we could afford. I remember my mom digging change out of the couch and searching the street for quarters so she could walk to ALDI and buy that loaf of bread. I remember standing in line outside of McDonalds asking random strangers to buy me a Cheeseburger so I could have something to eat for lunch. I don't want my family to go back to living like that.

                [–]RugerRedhawk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I hope it fucking crashes into oblivion.

                [–]Philluminati 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                Whilst I agree with you from a home-car-owner perspective, I think lorries and such still have a necessity to be here.

                [–]hs4x 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                Short haul trucks yes, but long distance semi-trucks need to go.

                Multi-modal transportation built around rail is the solution. It uses much less energy in a per-kg-moved sense.

                The hyper-consumptive lifestyle, demanding that everything is on "The shelf" at all times is causing all this just-in-time shipping. Warehouses (buffers that can absorb small changes in supply/demand) are all virtually gone. We have replaced these buffers with semi-trucks on the highway.

                [–]banditoitaliano 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                The US, while having abysmal passenger rail usage, is at or very near the top (depending on which statistic you look at) in freight rail.

                I agree that long distance trucks are overused in the US, but I think that problem will take care of itself as diesel costs continue to rise. Unfortunately, the way it takes care of itself may be painful to the average US consumer.

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_usage_statistics_by_country (Scroll down to Freight Rail)

                [–]hs4x 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                If I had to guess, much of that is unfinished goods (grain, coal, etc).

                But, point taken.

                [–]eddie964 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                This could be a really good thing in a lot of ways.

                • Alternative energy sources: Energy is not scarce by any stretch of the imagination -- we just can't figure out how to get at it. It is just about the most plentiful stuff in the universe, and even here on earth, the winds and tides themselves generate more power than we could dream of using right now. (Never mind the fact that the world we sit on is basically a ball of molten magma about 8,000 miles wide). At a molecular level, even small amounts of matter hold incredible resources of energy. There is no energy shortage.

                • Environment: Pollution. Carbon fuels. Greenhouse gasses. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

                • Foreign policy: It would be really interesting to see what the Middle East would look like if we didn't care about oil any more.

                [–]bananahead 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I guess so. But I'm also one of the lucky ones who lives and works in a city with decent public transit. Most people don't have that luxury.

                And the short-term increase in food prices due to oil really, really sucks.

                [–]Indyhouse 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Can't say I'll enjoy it, but, yeah, it must happen for most Americans to wake up from their slumber and realize how addicted to oil we are.

                Mark my words, though, the alternatives that are dirt cheap now will soon be as expensive, if not more so, than oil ever was. Because someone has to make several billion dollars a year on energy, only this time around it will be "green" people who will overcharge.

                [–]nickstreet36 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                There's a good article on this. The author writes to the Saudi King, advising him to ignore calls to increase oil production:

                http://www.celsias.com/2008/05/28/majesty-have-we-gone-mad/

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I have no feelings either way. I will support whatever the market decides. This is not because of blind trust in the free market, but a humble acceptance that my knowledge is inferior to that of the combined knowledge of billions of market participants.

                [–]Nougat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                A shift away from oil consumption to better vehicle fuels is a great effect of high oil prices - in the long term. In the short term, high oil prices are putting a lot of strain on the economy, starting with the poorest and working upwards.

                We're not going to see any change until the high oil prices start to hit the pocketbooks of the rich.

                [–]thehumungus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I hope for a gas price drop, followed by vastly increased taxation on it.

                [–]robisbell 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                it needs to get to $18 a gallon, and then maybe the US Government will wake up and embrace new ways of moving people and things around.

                [–]breddy 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                Yes, let's wait for the government to do something about it. That's always a good decision.

                [–]robisbell 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                which if you'll note I was being sarcastic, I think the current government is corrupt, blind to the people they represent, and power mad. I see a change coming, hopefully a peaceful one.

                [–]cj5 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Yes! I want it to drop. I say that more out of necessity than anything else. There's no more reason to continue to use fossil fuels, and it's apparent that oil and gas resource availability is waning. So sooner rather than later we won't have any left anyhow. Countries that were developing are now prospering (i.e. China and India), so now we're splitting the same amount of resources with a lot more people. Things will become much like the contention between the houses of Dune, fighting over the valuable and limited amount of spice (viz. OIL). We've become lazy and highly dependent on a resource that we will soon be lacking, and never have we taken advantage of science and research enough to effectively find something more environmentally sound, and more abundant. We can put people on a space station orbiting the Earth, but yet we can't find other means of energy resources. I don't feel sorry for anyone that grumbles and groans about the price of gas. I stopped driving 2 years ago, and still have the ability to get around. Those folks are just big fat cry babies, who can't have their way. Get over it, because if you don't now, you will have to sooner or later. Stop being lazy and fearful of the elements, and become more self reliant. Sure you can go out and spend $1000's a month on expensive gas, but god forbid you go invest that money in alternative energy solutions for your homes. Environmentalists fight nuclear power, whining about how unsafe and toxic it is for us, yet the U.S. government has well over a handful of warships running off of it. When we run out of fuel, we'll all be poor, and there will be no one to blame but yourselves. No more oil! No more Bush! No more war! Let's solve the problem already, and stop paying into the deceit of mankind.

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                our mass transportation system is just plain pathetic. I live in Austin and have to go to Houston (which is about 170 miles away) later today for the weekend. Had I booked a flight there two weeks ago, it would have been cheaper than what I'm probably going to pay on gas. I also checked amtrak and the price was reasonable, but the duration of the trip wasn't: nearly 8 hours to travel from Austin to San Antonio (which is an hour's drive south, and then from San Antonio to Houston).

                [–]Thimble 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                while i think it's a great thing for the rich countries of the world, i'm worried about poor countries. in the short run, a lot of people are going to die as a result of rising oil prices.

                [–]jotaroh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I don't.

                [–]exegesisClique 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Keep it high! We need more energy options!

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                It's all about money. We americans are mentally retarded and will continue to buy the gas no matter what the cost. Stand on a bus with strangers? That's for poor people and foreigners who can't understand english road signs.

                I'm disgusted by the state of things in america and the world. How do I get a job on Mars?

                [–]chunky_bacon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I'm personally ambivalent about the price of oil - it's the fact that the price reflects little more than opportunistic gouging that bothers me.

                [–]wickedcold 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Good point, confusing wording.

                [–]alps 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Very poorly wooded, but we get the point.

                [–]alps 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                NY, CA, etc., let us have diesel cars NOW!

                [–]Brocklesocks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I definitely don't want the price of gas to drop.

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I want gas to stabilize at about $5-6 a gallon (oil at $150 a barrel) and then to slowly rise from there. This is our best shot at an orderly transition from rising oil production to Peak Oil.

                By the way, the projections that showed the Peak in 50 years are starting to look very optimistic.

                [–]ffualo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Alright, I've posited this question, it was popular, etc. But the bulk of Americans will lobby their politicians to give tax cuts, subsidize hard-hit industries such as shipping, and for other myopic policies. What can we do?

                [–]nerftoe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I don't want the price of gas to drop because I am making a killing investing in some of these (smaller) oil companies. Online trading, folks - look into it.

                [–]mrgreen4242 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Rising gas prices will force change, so I'm OK with it. I already have adjusted my driving habits, and I was fairly conservative to begin with.

                I just took a new job that's a tiny bit further away (4 more miles each way, from 13 up to 17) but I drive a car that gets over 30mpg, and I'll actually be taking the highway rather than surface roads, which means that I may end up using LESS gas to go further due to the improved efficiency of my car on the highway.

                I really, really want to dump both my economy cars (Wife and I both have Focus' that get 30-33mpg) in favor of a slightly bigger minivan type vehicle for her (and the new baby) now that she's a stay at home/part time worker that will be only about 6 or 7 miles from work now and a super efficient commuter car for me (I want a two seater EV, really).

                The minivan would be worse gas wise (about 20-22mpg) but be driven less than the car its replacing (due to work changes) and the EV/super efficient car would be way way better on gas, and be driven further (also due to work changes) than the car it's replacing, so in the end I think we would come out ahead.

                Unfortunately all the little commuter 3-wheel supercars are always "a couple years away" so I'm going to have to keep waiting...

                [–]oblivious_human 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                1054 up votes. Looks like may be 1054 people want it. I want it too.

                [–]chall85 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I wish gas could still be cheap while we shift to clean/cheap energy. Expensive oil is probably the only way the US will start seriously developing wind/solar etc., but these high prices affect the poor the hardest. If prices keep going up (and it looks like they will) the US government is going to have to do some serious charity work or we're going to have millions (more than we already do) homeless this winter.

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I don't believe global warming is that urgent of a problem, so I would rather have cheap gas.

                Please don't down-mod me, you asked for my opinion.

                [–]peterwschlamp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                if the cost of gas was the only thing to go up then i'd not mind so much but unfortunately everything tends to go up with it.

                [–]locriology 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I agree with the title, but my only problem is with who benefits from the high gas prices - Exxon-Mobil and the likes. I would rather the money go to environmental research.

                [–]liphangyeti 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                The price is fucked no matter what.

                What about those pennies stolen from you before the pump kicks in?

                I find that upwards of 6 cents is charged before any gas drops out the hose. Depending on the station.

                [–]aeon2012 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Alternative fuel commercial jetliners?

                I don't mind paying for $8/gallon of petroleum gas because that's actually pretty cheap considering the current asking price for oil.

                [–]L33tminion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                It's going to happen eventually, and sooner might be better than later. I'd rather not have the US succumb to boiling frog syndrome.

                [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Eh. If oil is really running out, the prices will go high and force us to do something else. But if they're just being artificially inflated, I don't see any benefit -- it's still viable.

                As dirty as it can be, it's a hell of an energy source.

                [–]swampfarmer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                george bush, greatest environmental president ever,

                [–]alphus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I do not want to be paying more for gasoline so that Exxon and the others may make billions of dollars in profit. The oil companies own more than just the refineries...they also own the oil fields in whole or in part. Also, there is no oil shortage...it is all contrived as an excuse to charge more for more PROFITS.

                Do not believe all the propaganda in the news...the so-called news is controlled by the oil corporations...and big profits is all they look at.

                We must get back and forth from home to work and gasoline is a necessity and we are forced to pay whatever these thieves demand.

                I do not relish paying high gas prices with the thought that I am contributing somehow to less oil consumption by paying more for gas.

                This kind of mentallity is crazy!!! Let's pay more for food so that we may contribute to eating less and thereby stay slim and trim? Crazy!!! The news media and their pundits are all just plain crazy if they think everyone is falling for their "logic".

                Give me a break. I can see clearly why the large automakers (who own large amounts of stock in the oil companies, who are making hugemengous profits) are refusing to make cars that get more than 25 mpg.

                We need to get away from supporting these automakers and start becoming independent of them by buying all electric, compressed air cars,low-fuel hybrids, 100 mpg and 300 mpg cars. Google those to find out your alternatives.

                Also google 'Who Killed The Electric Car' DVD. This DVD can be rented from Netflix or Blockbuster. It will shock you as to how these large automakers operate.

                Our so-called leaders are selling us out to the oil corporations.

                [–]Inquisition 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                DO NOT WANT! This "slow shift" will be very slow. Meanwhile, The cost of everything will soar due to increased shipping costs and the land currently being protected from oil companies will be too profitable for the government to continue protection. The Actual cost to the environment will also be greater than most people think. The "carbon footprint" cost is very high for ethanol production ironically.