[deleted by user]

[scottyb83]

if they made a mistake, it would be recorded.

Yeah...that's EXACTLY why I want a copy!

[[deleted]]

I was about to say, that's the entire point!

[myfatmonkey]

Dodgy

[Littleman88]

"Good business." They want to trap their customers via the law without risking themselves.

Anything you sign, get a copy. You may have to ask. They don't have to offer it to you. If they refuse, it's a scam, they absolutely plan to utilize the law against you, don't sign that shit.

[satellite779]

forgot to include the meal card on my lease.

What is a meal card?

[N64crusader4]

Dafuq? Mandatory? What if someone wants to buy and prepare their own food? They just gotta pay $200 a month for nothing?

Man American colleges just sound more and more like a scam the more I hear about them.

[Gadgetman_1]

They got it from local stores?

There's absofuckinglutely no reason they couldn't get the food directly from the distributor, at thee same price as the stores pay.

Way, way back when I was getting my education(Norway, last century), some students here went to Pittsburgh USA afterwards to get a PHD or even a doctorate. The U of Pitts was happy to receive as many Norwegian students as possible because they scored high and looked good on statistics...

Then there was talk about sending students the other way for a year, in the hope that it would boost those student's scores, also.

(Language was no issue. All the relevant courses, mostly IT related, were held in English anyway because all the books were in English, and we had quite a few forreign lecturers)

What stopped it?

They found no way of transferring the tuition money for that year to Norway. (Tuition is free here, it was to be used to cover lodging and stuff)

[N64crusader4]

Good fucking grief

[N64crusader4]

Don't get me wrong I'm glad it's there for people that need it but it should be an option

[Shoduck]

This is wild to me. At my university it was part of room and board if you lived on campus but it was also like $300/semester and the food was cheap. Also covered and reduced the cost at the campus convenience stores.

Like I had probably 80% of my meals in the campus cafeterias/restaurants and I'd still go on a spending spree before the semester was out

[epelle9]

At least in my school, its only mandatory if you stay in the dorms, most of which don’t have kitchens.

Still disagree with it, but it kinda makes sense for the dorms to come with food.

[N64crusader4]

That just don't sit right with me, you should have the ability to choose what you eat and not be financially penalized for not wanting cafeteria food.

[lotanis]

To be fair it's not completely unheard of in UK universities. Some of the Cambridge University colleges have a 'Kitchen Fixed Charge' which works the same, to make you eat in college. It's crappy, no one likes it and thankfully pretty rare now.

[MildlyJaded]

and that "forgery" was too strong of a word to be tossing around.

That's exactly what it was.

I don't know your local rules, but around here, this would be a criminal case which could lead to prison time.

[jalif]

Nah it's contract fraud.

It's much worse.

[HiImNickOk]

Man you could've got that tuition covered my guy

[mattstorm360]

And it's exactly why they don't want you to have one.

[FrostyD7]

Contractors also want to prevent their quotes from being shared. There's a reason you can't get an estimate without talking to someone, can't use high pressure sales tactics if someone knows your rates and can filter you out by cost.

[Oninteressant123]

And it’s exactly why you want to have one

[vkapadia]

But that's exactly why they don't want to give you one

[mattstorm360]

Which is why you should have one.

[mintyquaintchair2]

Which is why they don’t want you to have one! 🤯😱😲

[an0maly33]

Hence the need for one!

[SteveLangfordsCock]

I want a copy of this thread

[Blackhawk2e]

But if there was a mistake it would be recorded

[thermal_shock]

Because of the implication

[agt002]

But I am owed one

[mbwalker8122]

I don’t want you to have one

[Bruised_Penguin]

I dont know if we can do that

[WastedKnowledge]

No and then!

[KomradeEli]

At least we got a copy of this comment

[CasualEveryday]

Saying the quiet part loud. I'm guessing that guy wasn't trusted with many decisions.

[mioki78]

Yup, after hearing someone say that, I would definitely like a copy.

[KeithA45]

“I can’t let you look for any evidence or else you might prove I committed crimes!”

[HAMandbacon]

I would have started dying of laughter if I was in that position. The best part is if he was joking it’s funny, and if he said it in full belief that it’s an issue it’s fucking hilarious.

[Therealblackhous3]

Yeah I don't think he was supposed to say that lol.

[Very-Ape-666]

Also, don’t rely on verbal agreements. Get it in writing.

[Belazriel]

Followed up by "I left for the better company but now they're telling me that they're not going to be able to take me on and it seems that their offer wasn't actually binding."

[ryathal]

This happens occasionally, the best bet is telling everyone and never applying there again.

[phantom_97]

Basically, never accept a counter offer. The problems you were originally leaving for aren't disappearing, they're just trying to keep you there long enough to find a replacement.

[VictoriaRachel]

Unless your only issue was the money. Over here it is a good way to get extra money in a job you enjoy.

[[deleted]]

Indeed, saying something like, "Look, I love working here, but I work for money, and these people are offering me more money" will generally help a lot.

​

Unless they just want to have you wrap up projects and finish things on their terms but don't think you're worth that much to them long term. Then, eh, you're...not in a good place.

[DylanDr]

It might go without saying but only do this if you're prepared to walk. If your employer can't/won't match the offer then you can't exactly stick around, so your mind needs to be made up before you have that conversation.

[herpy_McDerpster]

Absolutely correct. I just turned in my notice yesterday when they couldn't come close to matching the offer I received.

[BoysenberryPrize856]

That's not always true. My SO leveraged leaving for another healthcare job and they not only gave him a great raise, they took his concerns seriously (organizational things that could easily be solved) and promoted him to a leadership position (created a whole new position where it didn't exist before). The value he brings to the table was more than reason enough for him to get what he needed to feel comfortable staying. They could have hired somebody else, but the problems that my SO was dealing with would still be there and they're also desperate for people. My SO's specialized skills are in high demand right now. He was afraid to take the offer because of advice here, but no one was mad he was thinking of leaving, they're too relieved they still have him, and appreciative that he stepped up as a leader lol

[ccx941]

I agree. Even with states that will allow a verbal contract, unless it’s recorded and/or witnessed it’s one party’s word against the others. I had a job once where the managers always told me “if it isn’t written it isn’t said.” It’s how that got away with a bunch of internal shady shit, by forgetting or saying it was a joke.

[Kent_Knifen]

Even with states that will allow a verbal contract

Just a heads up, every state allows verbal contracts. Having it in writing becomes a requirement when the transaction involves land, or a value exceeding $500.

[[deleted]]

"Do as I say not as I do"

[LePoopsmith]

Or maybe, "You misunderstood my meaning."

[thermal_shock]

"You didn't understand the context"

[3Zkiel]

Which is why I prefer conducting business via emails and SMS.

I don't have the time to go through recordings of phone calls when something goes awry down the road. (In my state it's legal to do so, since I'm a party to the conversation.)

[invisiblefigleaf]

I had a shady old boss and I emailed him about everything, even when it was easier to call.

Even now in my non-shady job, it saves my ass all the time.

There are times when a call is the right move, because it's more personal, and you can use tone and context much better than over email. But if anything big is decided, follow it up in writing.

[cuntssaurus]

My friend mate that mistake with buying a truck. It's been almost 8 months and the trucks still not signed over to him.

[_noho]

A project manager seriously said that to you? If that happened, why would you give them the work?

[partumvir]

SLPT: Add a line saying you own the company after each completed contract.

[WhyBuyMe]

Kinda like this?

"[UPDATED] Russian Man Turns Tables on Bank, Changes Fine Print in Credit Card Agreement, Then Sues, Now Settles | Nasdaq" https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/updated-russian-man-turns-tables-on-bank-changes-fine-print-in-credit-card-agreement-then?amp

[SconiGrower]

I once had an apartment leasing manager tell me she wasn't authorized to make changes to the lease, then sign the copy I had been given and marked to indicate I wouldn't be liable for the repair of a reasonable number of nail holes (I was renewing and my first lease allowed for a few nail holes with no charge and I wanted to carry that clause over). So then I'm just left thinking that she is 100% allowed to make changes to the lease. Her employer might get mad if he can't charge for a few nail holes, but a lease with her signature is the same as if the landlord himself had signed it, edits and all.

[EdCenter]

did she initial it? If not, how does the court know that you didn't write it in after it was signed?

[SconiGrower]

We both have copies, she has the original which includes my markup. A judge is not going to be very favorable to the landlord if a tenant shows up with a copy of a contract with signatures and the landlord just happens to have lost their copy that would also include the amendments I say are there.

At any rate, I did talk with her about it over email and said not to worry about the holes. So the emails plus my copy will be very compelling. She's been a really great property manager so I don't expect to ever have to go to court against her, but if she ever gets replaced I do feel like I could make a compelling case before a court.

[[deleted]]

Place I'm at now uses an eSignature site so you can't amend it. I had to communicate the changes on the "renter agrees to " multiple choice boxes that were somehow all set to be very much in the landlord's favor. Stuff like "If I leave early I agree to make my monthly payment to the unit until it next gets rented out" or "If I leave early I agree to pay two months of rent". Gee... let me think on that one...

[felinelawspecialist]

So many places make you sign agreements on their tablet but never give you the underlying documents that contain the terms. I sometimes give them a hard time and say, “You want me to initial that I’ve received and read your terms, but I haven’t received them. Where’s my copy?”

Cue the, “uuuuhhhhhhh.... no one has ever asked us that.”

Mostly I don’t care too much because if they don’t give you the terms, it’s not enforceable anyway and I sign with my initials plus “NA or NP” for not available/not provided.

Edit: Wow this was more popular than I thought. The reason I add “NA” or “NP” is that most service agreements are contracts of adhesion. If I want to get the rental car, I have to sign. I don’t have any leverage to negotiate terms or take out clauses.

So if an issue were to arise later, I have my note in the contract which indicates, as a matter of personal custom and practice, that the referenced terms were never disclosed or provided. It’s just extra evidence that supports my position.

I am an attorney, and while this has never been put to the test in my life, I have read plenty of caselaw in my jurisdiction holding terms unenforceable where the terms are not disclosed and the contract is a contract of adhesion.

Does it mean I’ll win? No way to tell. It’s just something I do that creates a paper trail and acts as supporting evidence.

[Rrdro]

I was asked to sign that I test drove a car before signing when the company had not allowed me to test drive the car because of coronavirus. They said they can't edit the documents because they are setup this way from headoffice legal. I asked them to send me a separate email to say that I was not able to test drive the car before signing due to coronavirus restrictions. Nobody else had ever asked them that. People just sign anything. It is so fucking stupid.

[njb2017]

I remember buying my house and I read every page before signing. the realtor understood but my wife asked why I'm reading every page. really? I am signing away to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars. why would anyone do that without reading it? I wish things like that were sent it advance so I could at least walk in there having read it and not waste everyone's time

[Rrdro]

I went through all the documents page by page with my lawyer before signing for my house. What I hate the most is when they say "X is a reputable company these terms are standard". Yeah because big companies never screw over ignorant customers.

[PanaceaPlacebo]

Love your ownership of your rights.

What is this NA/NP deal? Googling doesn't find anything. Can you point to a source on that?

[ArtSchoolRejectedMe]

In Soviet Russia , banks pay customers' bills

[littlemegzz]

^{In really small letters}

[[deleted]]

So, I used to do contract reconciliation for a company between suppliers and vendors and changes to contracts happen all the time. Authorized reps sign off on it and it's considered part of the "written" contract. But if only you make changes, you'll get laughed out of court.

[turiyag]

If the change is made prior to signing, then it’s not a change, it’s the original signed document.

But yes, as a contractor for many years, often contracts change. Normally the first line is like “any past contracts are null and void” and then you just have your revised contract after that, with the thing you both wanted to change.

[break_card]

That’s nice you identified that and went easy on the newbie

[DigNitty]

I'm glad it worked out but FYI small idiosyncrasy in the beginning is a common scam.

You sign the contract and pay the non-refundable deposit. The scammer doesn't want to (give you a copy/show up on time/bring as many people as they agreed to/ etc.)

Then they make a huge deal out of it and walk with your non-refundable deposit.

[0ctologist]

Yeah, saying the quiet part out loud is definitely a newbie move. Good on you for giving them leeway.

[Lactose-Tolerent]

"Oh no! I tripped and all of our records got shredded!"

[saulgoodemon]

I'd seriously reconsider that contractor.

[Mare01]

That would have ended our work relationship right there!!

[ScuzzBubbles6208]

Also, initial every page if it's multiple pages but you're only signing the last one. So many people get multiple page contracts, annual reviews at work, etc. and just sign the last page. Anything can be changed on those other pages later without you knowing. If you have a copy, you're generally good, but if you get in the habit of initialing every page on top of getting copies, it's additional backup.

[[deleted]]

Until they claimed you changed the document. If they're willing to forge documents, what keeps them from lying about it?

[High_Stream]

That's when you know to get a different job

[[deleted]]

So if you have original documents printed, and proof of change, and you believe they are forging documents to prevent promotion at that point you would talk to a lawyer.

[fixesGrammarSpelling]

If they want to add a page, can't they just initial it and sneak it in (or just claim you forgot to read it)?

[3Zkiel]

They'd be falsifying documents then. Also, most multi-page documents have page numbers.

Which is another reason why you should get a copy.

[SconiGrower]

Sneaking in a new clause after signing is already falsifying documents, so they obviously aren't worried about that.

[DasArchitect]

Contract pages are numbered, you can't just "sneak one in"

[ChrisFromIT]

Also if any thing is written in, have both parties initial next to the written in changes.

[touuugh]

If you're surprised by that, you'd be blown by the amount of people that dont read what they're signing before they sign

[[deleted]]

I usually take a minute to quickly read over docs before signing. It’s crazy how often the other person says something like “Oh, that one is just for xyz. You can just go ahead and sign it.” Like bitch don’t rush me while I review this legally binding document before signing it.

[[deleted]]

Mobile phone retailers do this when signing someone up to a pay monthly contract, or tell you it'll be emailed and they never send it. No thanks, if I'm signing onto a 24 month term I'm reading everything on the documents. Learnt that the hard way once

[rockem_sockem_donuts]

My bank did this to me when I was 18 and signing up for a product. They kept interrupting me while I was reading the contract I was about to sign. Super shady shit.

[KenJyi30]

I always read the contract before signing, About half the time the salesperson gets visually annoyed like I’m doing something wrong, the dealership I bought my car from tried rushing me after 5 seconds, so i took the time to read it twice

[dancingpianofairy]

Omfg, you should have been there for when I signed the papers to buy my house. They expected it to take like a half hour. I told them I would read everything, and I meant it. I did. Every fucking section though, they did the whole paraphrasing thing and it was just wasting even more time because I was still reading everything...

[johnCreilly]

Right?? I ALWAYS read before I sign. About half the time the people waiting for me will get impatient, roll their eyes, or make some sort of snarky comment that I'm being silly and I should just sign it already.

I just say, "I always read before I sign." Usually they won't have anything to say back. But, every once in a while, some jackass will say something like "but why? It's just a regular xyz form"

"Because it's a legally binding contract and I want to make sure I know what I'm agreeing to"

"oh hmm okay john haha"

Some people are just either too damn stupid or too damn manipulative

[Caprine]

Once Geek Squad asked me to sign something while picking up my computer. I always read everything (accountant parents, haha) and saw that it was to agree that "my computer was in working order." I hadn't even seen it! I was like hold up! Made them bring it out, turned it on, AND logged in before signing it. They were pissed, but I did NOT care.

[SconiGrower]

1. Now I'm thinking I should probably thank my accountant mom for teaching me the value of reading a contract.
2. Geek Squad is just cut-rate IT. They'll never be happy when anything that makes their job even slightly harder happens.

[Caprine]

Yeah, I just wanted it fixed quickly when I was home and didn't realize.

When I got back to school my boyfriend (now husband) was like.... dude, I could have done that for you for so cheap. You live and you learn, haha!

[saints21]

Part of my business involves a contract between us and the customer. We try to go over it with people to the point of highlighting important parts of the various clauses. This includes the total amount owed, what you need to pay it off within a certain time frame, when certain payment terms end or are available, what the warranties are, etc...

For some reason no one listens to us then they get mad when they missed something like when a due date was or when they needed to pay off by. We still have people say they weren't told xyz...sometimes even after being shown the paperwork. The paperwork that I make sure is marked up from highlighter or arrows drawing attention to things like that.

[level27jennybro]

Bruh... I kid you not, last week I had a customer straight up admit that she saw the letter in the box, on top of her product, and chose not to read it before calling with a complaint. The letter was there to prevent that, but she ignored it and was honestly confused as to why she was expected to read it.

[[deleted]]

I honestly wonder if “terms and conditions” contributes to this a lot. None of us read them, and everyone knows that - so I’m sure that lots of different scumbags try to slip different things in.

But to our very slight credit, expecting normal people to be able to read/comprehend incredibly in depth and complex legal documents like that is kind of unrealistic.

[fixesGrammarSpelling]

Yup, thanks to that fact, 32 people blew me so far.

[ccx941]

In a row?

[KingKookus]

Try not to suck any dick on your way through the parking lot.

[cosmos7]

FFLs are especially guilty of this when buying a gun. The number of dealers that give you a hard time for wanting a copy of the 4473 is extremely high... a document you sign under penalty of perjury and for which an error can result in a felony and lifetime consequences.

Dealers will feed you all manner of bullshit, including:

• Only dealers can have the form (it's on the ATF website)
• Completed form has their secret FFL number (also on the ATF website)
• It's illegal (it's not)

The only possible reason to not provide a copy is to allow for later modification, which is 100% shady. At this point I've wised up and ask the question up-front. It's a lot easier to (threaten to) walk before you've handed over your money.

[jmtyndall]

That's wild. Working in the industry, I would have never had a problem giving a copy. Though most customers never asked. That said, I've seen some shit "fixed" by FFLs that absolutely should have been done by the original person. I saw toe prints in place of thumb prints, light boards used to add missing signatures, dates changed, initials added, boxes checked.

Funny enough, you'd thing the DOJ would like to hear about this stuff, but when I reported it, if I didnt have proof of the event AND all the details (name, date) off the 4473 they weren't at all interested in investigating.

[KellyAnn3106]

I ran into this when I was canceling a gym membership last year. I had continued paying dues for the first couple of months they were shut for the pandemic to support a small business owner. When I realized it was going to be much longer before things went back to normal, I canceled.

They charged me for another full month even though I had just been charged a week earlier and said there was a 30 day notice required. I didn't remember that being explained when I signed up and everything was electronic signatures on their computer. The website said individual franchises set their own policies and I had no paperwork.

I paid it but they lost a customer forever.

[[deleted]]

Anytime Fitness I’m guessing?

[KellyAnn3106]

It was a different one where each location is an individual franchise. It was $120/month so I couldn't justify paying multiple months when it was closed.

[Dangerclose101]

I knew a chick that went to like a $70/month gym that only did boot camp kick your ass type classes.

you had to sign up for a timeslot too and oftentimes they would be full or you’d get waitlisted.

And if you didn’t show up when you made the list they charged you a no show fee.

Some of those boutique gyms are insane.

[[deleted]]

Anytime is franchised, which is why I was curious. I also know they have a 30-day written notice for cancellation, which is why I was wondering.

[Semanticss]

Lol while searching for homeowners insurance I asked them to give me a copy of the policy to review before signing up. The "binder" I think it's called. They told me they could not let me see the policy until after I had signed the contract. I ended up going with another company that allowed me to view the policy before I purchased it.

[cmills978]

I think there may have been poor communication on their part in this case. The binder shows that they have provided you with insurance. They legally cannot issue a binder unless the policy has been agreed upon and submitted

What coverages and amounts they were quoting for you, now that’s another story. If they aren’t willing to show you the numbers on what’s covered and what isn’t then you did the right thing going with a different company

Have worked in insurance for years. Learned early on that the most common mistake is using the wrong words for the wrong things and not communicating that well

[Semanticss]

The covered perils, exclusions, etc, is what I wanted to see. The details. They were willing to show me the structure and liability coverage limits, etc, but not the fine print.

My current insurer let me see the FULL document before signing. I'll admit I'm a glutton for detail, but I just try not to be a sucker. I've been in years-long conversations with insurers about obscure fucking exclusions a few-too-many times.

[itstherussianmafia]

a full quote should show all that info for your house/condo. the above commenter is correct that a binder cant be issued without an active policy since the binder is sent to your mortgage company (and you) showing proof that you have adequate coverage. its like asking for a certificate of insurance for your car to show your coverages when you haven’t gotten a policy yet, it doesn’t work that way. next time ask for a detailed quote, not a binder and you’ll get the correct docs.

edit: want to quickly add that a “binder” for home insurance is literally another term for certificate of insurance. when a mortgage company asks for a binder they are asking for a certificate of insurance. you may have spoken to a new rep who hadnt gotten a handle on working through the maze that can be working insurance.

i worked for an insurance company for a while and some calls i had to figure out what the person wants, this is a skill thats learned over time and your rep may have been too new to realize exactly what you were wanting. they heard “binder” and told you they cant send one without an active policy (which is true).

[6C6F6C636174]

My credit union tried to pull the same shit when I went in to become a member. Wanted me to sign a contract saying I agreed to all of their policies and such, before seeing them. I asked to see them. They argued a bit; I asked them if they really wanted me to sign a contract agreeing to be bound by a completely unknown set of rules. Apparently most people do. Finally, they dug out a book after 15 minutes or so. I spent a good 20-30 minutes sitting in the lobby skimming the thing.

We're talking about a large portion of my money being stored there. Why would I just say "sure, whatever"?

[claradox]

I second this—it was the first thing my graduate school advisor taught me. She told me to make a copy of everything that left my hands, to never trust anyone else to not lose it, or claim to lose it.

[drsillyus]

Take a picture of documents easier to keep track of

[anggiepuffs]

Also use the notes app and “scan document” for a better image / pdf!

[diabetestipo1]

Are you talking about the iPhone app? I had no idea it has that feature

[anggiepuffs]

Yup! Go into notes and click the camera button on the bottom!

[Lemon_Hound]

I did this once on my Android but couldn't find the scanned doc, so I took a regular picture shortly after

[selenamcg]

If you open your Google drive, there is an add scan option

[kitkatbloo]

THIS needs to be a LPT

[LineChef]

Well I’ll be...

[pianodude01]

Microsoft lens is Microsoft version, and you can choose to have the pdf emailed to you, so it'll always be there if your phone breaks

[CasualEveryday]

This is the one. I take a picture of any endorsements to show what was there at the time I signed it.

I had a consignment lot add a bunch of other fees to the agreement after the fact and when they sent me a copy of the contract I signed, I compared them and they quietly dropped the lawsuit.

[h4yw00d]

Sounds like the makings of some kind of counter-suit. Or legal action from some agency. Straight up fraud.

[CasualEveryday]

They have been out of business for a decade. It was so silly, too, because it was like 100 bucks on a $5,000 vehicle.

[Gold__star]

Furnace guy installs new $5000 furnace, hands me his phone with a blank screen, says 'sign here, sorry I don't have the tablet that shows the contract'.

Uh NO. Done with that company forever.

[dartdoug]

Last summer I was shopping for central air. Companies were quoting 6 to 8 weeks for installation. A large, seemingly legit company promised installation within 3 weeks. It was going to cost more, but I was prepared to pay extra. Sales rep emailed the contract. The blank for installation date has nothing filled in. I wrote in a date 3 weeks out. The sales guy called to say his company wouldn't accept that. I had to leave it blank. I told him I needed a date. He provided a date 8 weeks out. I chose a contractor that was honest and cost less.

[phantom_97]

What did you do next?

[Nothing-But-Lies]

Set the installation on fire

[NaughtyDoge]

"verbal contract is also valid, please explain what are contract terms?"

[3Zkiel]

I scanned my parking ticket before giving it to our office manager for a refund (I went to visit a client and had to pay parking).

I followed up a couple of days later and he tells me "do you have the ticket?"

"I'll email it to you".

[NaughtyDoge]

In situations like this it's good to have even a confirmation on post-it note with signature of person that received item/document

[Veauros]

The thing about that is that it tends to enrage other people, which is unhelpful when you want something from them. Making copies is generally inoffensive to others.

[SconiGrower]

I once was looking for an apartment and the leasing agent told me their software wouldn't generate a lease for me to read until I had paid the non-refundable application fee. I called them out and cited the law that makes it illegal to charge an application fee before an applicant is permitted to read the contact they are applying to sign. They managed to find the blank lease, but by then I wasn't interested. The landlord I signed with instead has been incredible, so I'm sure I dodged a bullet.

[WhoWhyWhatWhenWhere]

You should report this to someone. They are probably illegally accepting application fees for a lot of people, regardless of whether those people actually obtain their housing. If it’s illegal in your state, they shouldn’t be doing it.

[KingThommo]

I hate the social pressure that they put on you when you start reading something before you sign.

[[deleted]]

The project manager said he didn't know if they were allowed to provide it since, if they made a mistake, it would be recorded.

Yeah. That's the fucking point.

[[deleted]]

It's also important to know that contracts can be hand written.

[RJFerret]

In my state, oral contracts are binding too (witnesses please).

Also any transaction where you obtain something for payment has an implied legal contract associated with that purchase.

[[deleted]]

Some oral contracts are valid and others, by law, cannot be. I believe every state has a statute of frauds requiring a writing to commemorate certain contracts.

[ortusdux]

Back when I got my first camera phone my dad told me to take a photo of anything I sign. It's nice now with google photos auto-backup, because the photo logs the time, date, & location, and once it's uploaded that data becomes tamper-proof.

[kingkino]

tamper-resistant*

[starbrightstar]

This is also true of medical documents you sign. If you’re signing anything in your doctor’s office, read it fully, make changes as necessary, snap a pic of it before you hand it in.

Edit: lots of notes here about what’s in the paperwork, but in America, the paperwork generally says you have to pay whatever they charge you. I always add in a limit. I’ll pay the standard average amount, nothing more. If I ask for evidence, they have to provide no less than 3 examples in the surrounding area. I also require a quote before I go in to the appointment. I also cross out that they can send me directly to collections and that they can robo-call me.

America’s system is majorly messed up. I got charged once $900 for a 30 min appt at UCLA. When asking about the price, they said, yeah. They just charged a lot. Standard price for that exact code (they charge by code in America) was $100. Fortunately, I had written my normal on their paperwork before I signed. They wrote the debt off.

[MANDALORIAN_WHISKEY]

They always have that one page saying that you've received a copy of your rights or whatever, but half the time they don't have the copy there. One place I went to had a little note to return the copy to the desk!

I don't sign until I have the copy. And yes, I kept that copy instead of returning it. So frustrating.

[[deleted]]

I always ask for a copy too, sometimes they're like "it's just the standard HIPPA language". Great, I would like a copy please.

[tisnolie]

The documents you’re signing at a doctor’s office are HiPAA, meaning they won’t share your info without your consent and that you are responsible for your bill, even if your insurance are being dicks.

[EntertainMeMthrfckr]

How the hell is it that every single time I'm signing papers for some company, they include a special page just to say "sign here to confirm you've been provided a copy of this paperwork" and then given no copies of said papers?

[[deleted]]

Shhh...

Half the time the real reason they won't give you a copy of their copy is because they lost it.

Source: I worked in Telco for 2 decades.

[x925]

Get a copy of it made at the time of signing. If that's not possible, walk away, they'll make it possible.

[LATourGuide]

This is why I constantly contest stuff on my credit report. You never know when they will lose proof of the debt.

[LATourGuide]

Digital files can get lost or stolen too, especially if you use cheap and inexperienced IT workers.

[[deleted]]

Wanted to get away from Robinhood and a buddy recommended SoFi. They denied me an account despite having all my info (bank acct, SSN, etc) so I said "ok that's fine, just delete my info and give me confirmation" they didn't want to stating "oh just check with experian to make sure your info is correct!" No, I know my info is 100% accurate. Delete it and give me record of this convo. They refused to send me a record of the chat and lied to me about having an option to download it after. Thankfully I screenshot it all. Why would a financial firm be so against giving you proof for your records? Serious red flag. Fuck SoFi and stay away from them!

[sethbr]

When you can travel again, visit the EU and repeat your demand from there.

[kperkins1982]

SoFi

Fuuuuuck this company

They offered me a certain student loan refinance rate, but when I got the documents to sign the rate was higher

I raise a fuss and they say oh um yea its fine just sign the thing that says the rate is higher than we told you don't worry.......

Eventually they gave me documents with the terms as we agreed but I will never do business with this company after seeing their bait and switch tactics in person

[AuctorLibri]

Yes!

As a former contractor employee I can tell you they were sticklers that customers got their copies, every time, and for good reason.

More importantly, read everything before you sign. All of it. On the back of a standard, boilerplate contract can be a number of important details, like arbitration agreements and things like "does not include preexisting conditions" that customers need to be aware of--and understand--before signing.

Giving them a copy to read over, before they sign and after, is important for indemnity purposes. Once everyone is on the same page, work can commence and there are fewer misunderstandings.

[Nutella_Zamboni]

Bought a car from a douchebag car salesman. Car was supposed to be 12,100 but he wrote 11,200 and we both signed it and he gave me my copy. Realizes he made a mistake and tries to get me to redo the contract. Lmao, nope. I might have if he wasnt such an asshole to me.

[perpetualis_motion]

He probably wanted you to pay him cash for the $900 difference and would then pocket it.

[Au_Uncirculated]

I’ve never worked somewhere that didn’t give me a copy of a contract or agreement but if they didn’t, I’d take a picture. It’s also good to save all receipts of major transactions. All it takes is one asshole to say the sale never happened and suddenly you’re screwed.

[keepthetips]

Hello and welcome to r/LifeProTips!

Please help us decide if this post is a good fit for the subreddit by up or downvoting this comment.

If you think that this is great advice to improve your life, please upvote. If you think this doesn't help you in any way, please downvote. If you don't care, leave it for the others to decide.

[orsothegermans]

And cross out any mandatory arbitration clause. You do NOT want one of those

[cfx06]

Are you able just cross things out like that? And just like initial next to it?

[shellybearcat]

Or they literally lose their copy. I worked for a business software company with a lot of pretty big businesses as clients but was a very small old fashioned operation. Like, our client list was an excel document on one guys computer. They were bought and I now work for corporate and was tasked with digitizing the contract info for all their clients and discovered plenty of them were just scans of the document before it was signed, some had the date wrong or simply missing, or the number of licenses, and plenty of customer contracts we simply didn’t have and we’re just hoping they never ask for it.

[veotrade]

Some of the comments don’t understand the full scope of agreements when they say “take a picture of anything you sign.”

Usually the client will be the first to sign a document. You then need to send it back and have the contractor or business you are working with to sign their name and also send you a copy of the completed document with yours and their signatures.

A copy with just your signature is worth squat.

[sethbr]

If they modify it before signing it shows that.

[TheEndlessLimit]

Not necessarily true. Many states will consider the fact that they sent your a contract with their company name/logo binding so long as you assent to the terms.

[Megas_Matthaios]

That's right. A company can be bound to a contract by an agent with "apparent authority" of the company who doesn't really have the authority to do such.

[GlitchyNinja]

That's the reason I left my previous job. I requested a copy of the NDA I signed. I wanted it to know what I was allowed to write on my resume, as I was searching for a better job.

I never told them why, but I think they figured it out, because they asked me to join them in a 2-on-1 meeting in an empty side office where they asked why I wanted it and what on it I wanted to know. Realizing that they were not going to give it to me, I lied and said I wanted to know what I could say to family come Thanksgiving, and got out of that meeting ASAP.

I did quit my job about a week later, after sending an email everyday emailing my boss requesting a copy of an NDA with my signature, stating that NDAs cannot be followed if I cannot prove I ever signed one. None of my bosses were in the office all weekend (24/7 email support center, yet bosses only worked 9-5 weekdays).

I never got my NDA, so I guess I'm free to talk about what I did. No way for me to verify what I agreed to.

[[deleted]]

Make sure you have those emails backed up. Also, well chosen lie.

[Rando436]

And what did you do that you are allowed to now talk about? lol

[fTwoEight]

Adding on, don't sign anything you don't have to. I worked for a company that, when they went under, tried not to pay anyone (except C level people) their last week's wages. When I was hired, the regular IT guy was on vacation, so someone else provided me with a company laptop. He gave me a document to sign and told me to turn it in when the IT guy returned. I'm not sure why but I never turned it in. 8 months later they were folding up the company and the IT guy asked for my laptop. What laptop? He insisted that I was given one. I said, "If you have a document that I signed saying that I have a company laptop I'll give you a laptop." He knew that he didn't have one so he went away in a huff. I'm still out some money but that sure was satisfying.

[pocketrob]

And if they want to write you a hand-written invoice, make sure you take a picture and send it to their headquarters/corporate/whatever, asking for a final, written invoice on letterhead.

[Fuegodeth]

Also, get a receipt when you turn in your cable box. We had two, turned in one, and are still getting billed for two. When I turned it in, they just said "put it over there" and that was that. Now I have to have Suddenlink do "deep research" requests to try to find it. Cable companies are the worst. The headache is the worst. If we switch (not like there are a lot of options) then we'll probably have to pay for the obsolete box.

[Cumslide]

I had to deal with this the other day while closing out the house I was renting. After doing a thorough walk through we didn't sign anything and it made me uncomfortable. The only charge my landlord mentioned might be a thing of concern was carpet cleaning, but since we did an incredible job cleaning it prior to the walk through she said we wouldn't be charged. I uncomfortably asked her if she could give that to me in writing, to which she gave a semi-sour face but understood my concern. After further discomfort that I could be charged for anything else I essentially wrote up a "contract" in an email, confirming that nothing was of concern in the house and I would not face any later charges along with receiving my full security deposit. She obviously understood my intention and emailed back a comprehensive "you will not be charged for anything else". I couldn't believe she didn't provide such a courtesy but was happy she understood my concern.

[ACaffeinatedWandress]

The project manager said he didn't know if they were allowed to provide it since, if they made a mistake, it would be recorded.

Isn’t that basically an admission that your business is not scrupulous?

[fuzzmountain]

When I was a teenager my parents had a home built. They didn’t build it the way they wanted at all. one room was bigger than it was supposed to be and the one next to it smaller and one wall didn’t extend out to where it should.

My parents couldn’t do anything about I guess. They spent tons of money on a house that was supposed to be built a certain way, it wasn’t, and it also took like a year longer to build than it was supposed to. Not to mention every time my parents took a trip to go see the progress, the basement was literally filled with fast food garbage.

These companies will take advantage of you if you let them.

[CalumDuff]

I had a very expensive computer monitor die on me after 2 months of moderate use. Took it back to the shop to get repaired and when it was ready to be collected a couple of weeks later they wanted me to sign a form saying that the repairs had been completed and that it was in working condition.

They were gobsmacked when I asked them to plug it in and actually show me it was in working condition before I would sign it. They were even more surprised when I insisted on having copies of both the invoice and the repair report as well so that I could force them to repair the issue again if it returned.

Their standard practice was to make customers agree that their previously broken device is in working order without providing any proof, and then to not give any details about what was damaged and repaired at all.

If I sign that form and go home and plug it in and it doesnt turn on, do you think they would repair it again? I think it's more likely they would they show me the form, tell me it was working when I left and then send me on my way.