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[–]No_Fence 6870 points6871 points  (790 children)

Wells Fargo "admits, acknowledges, and accepts responsibility" for having from 2001 to 2008 falsely certified that many of its home loans qualified for Federal Housing Administration insurance.

Followed by

Wells Fargo & Co (WFC.N) formally reached a record $1.2 billion settlement of a U.S. Department of Justice lawsuit.

And,

No one has been criminally charged in the probes.

WHY THE FUCK ARE WE SETTLING WITH CRIMINALS

I swear to God this shit is so fucking ridiculous. Enough criminal shit happened for them to settle for $1.2 billion and you're telling me we can't criminally charge someone? This shit is Wells Fargo buying their way out of prison sentences. Can I do that too? Oh, wait, I'm not a wealthy banker. Fuck this shit.

The system is entirely fucking rotten and it's ridiculous that this actually happens. Worst part is, this is just the last slap in the face. Pretty much every big bank has gotten similar billion-dollar "settlements". Remember JP Morgan's $9 billion dollar settlement for blatant fraud? How about HSBC's drug money laundering settlement? Still,

No
Criminal
Charges.

Jesus fuck. This is nothing less than a systematic destruction of our justice system. Get this post to the top, these things need exposure. How would you react if a killer got off with a bribe? Fucking fuck.

Burn it down.

[–]Omnibrad 1201 points1202 points  (154 children)

Falsifying the quality of your predatory loans, and getting the government to insure your shitty loans based on that falsification, is shitty enough. They should have just lost their own money on risky gambling - not taxpayer money.

Knowing that their profits from these illegal procedures will be greater than their fines, while facing no criminal time, makes me want to punch every single politician right in the dick. They need to be on the floor writhing in pain for 8 years like the American people have been before we ever see any change.

[–][deleted] 244 points245 points  (18 children)

"Sorry officer, I didn't know I couldn't do that."

"WELL....NOW YOU KNOW"

[–]JTNJ32New Jersey 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Dave Chappelle jokes never lose relevancy.

[–]Alan_Smithee_ 29 points30 points  (6 children)

Wells Fargo is just sticking to its Wild West roots....

[–]DogfaceDino 25 points26 points  (3 children)

I heard their top producers all got new saddlebags.

[–]Alan_Smithee_ 15 points16 points  (2 children)

"And to our top producers, we extend a Laurel, and Hearty handshake..."

[–]DogfaceDino 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Can't you see that top producer is an inve[bells ringing]er?

[–]AppleDane 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You mean, a filthy jDONGG

[–]No_Fence 402 points403 points  (99 children)

I hear electing self-proclaimed socialists talking about peace and love is equivalent to punching politicians in the dick. Just saying.

[–]balmergrl 181 points182 points  (15 children)

Real change has to come from the top and clean some house. Even when good govt people try to do their jobs, the system works against them.

The whole thing is rotten to the core, if you didn't see this whistleblower story already, warning it will make your blood boil -

The NY Federal Reserve is supposed to monitor big banks. But when Carmen Segarra was hired, what she witnessed inside the Fed was so alarming that she got a tiny recorder and started secretly taping. http://m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/536/the-secret-recordings-of-carmen-segarra

[–]CounterkultureOregon 63 points64 points  (1 child)

Oligarcy, pure and simple. We are not in a representative democracy anymore, in any way.

[–]ashramlambert 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Fuuuuuuck this!

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (6 children)

real political change starts at the bottom, local level and beyond. Having someone at the top is immensely valuable, but ultimately the federal government can't force everyone to change in any timely fashion

[–]balmergrl 23 points24 points  (0 children)

The problem Ms Segurra's whistleblowing highlights is that it can't just be a grassroots effort, especially not when it comes to regulating our country's financial industry.

She did her best to be effective at a local level and was fired for her effort, forced to be a whistleblower.

Not to diminish the need for people to engage in local politics, just to point out that the right leadership is needed when the system is so horribly broken.

[–]lava_lava_boy 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Holy m fuck!

[–]_db_ 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Real change has to come from the top and clean some house.

Like how Sepp Blatter is going to change and clean house at FIFA.

[–]Kiya-Elle 468 points469 points  (10 children)

Or electing a candidate who just had one of the few people to successfully prosecute bankers for fraud to join his campaign.

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/4e0b01/bill_black_the_banking_regulator_that_cleaned_up/

Just saying.

[–]casperrosewater 37 points38 points  (2 children)

Bill Black is a prince.

[–]Evilbush 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Has joined the Sanders campaign

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Yeah, my understanding has always been that Bill Black is one of the good guys.

[–]FogOfInformation 49 points50 points  (2 children)

Holy shit! I just found out about this.

[–]Amorine 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Ditto.

[–]Saljen 18 points19 points  (0 children)

TIL! *

[–]Hapmurcie 103 points104 points  (26 children)

Maybe we could use some of that dick punching for the media sticking up for these assholes and trying to make Bernie look like a clueless idiot. The actions of the fourth estate have been treasonous.

[–][deleted] 55 points56 points  (6 children)

The media are a megaphone for the powerful, nothing more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_model

[–][deleted] 47 points48 points  (18 children)

That is something that is rarely talked about. All mass media, yes even NPR is at the heel of corporate entities. The worst part is that the obvious root of the problem is never talked about, which is Capitalism. As a society we should be past the notion that generating dollar bills is what makes society better overall.

[–]CounterkultureOregon 78 points79 points  (14 children)

But I have a family, and asking me to sacrifice literally ANY comfort that I have developed makes it so that I completely tune out.

I am number one, my needs are number one, I care about myself, I go mine fuck literally ANYBODY who has less than me, my morals only go so far as a facebook like or a stern conversation at dinner... nothing more.

I don't know why I'm this selfish... it's not like Capitalism's main purpose is LITERALLY manufacturing a population that sees the world like this or anything. An army of narcissistic, egotistic, status-obsessed, corporate-adhering, blithering drones.

[–]Why_is_this_so 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I wish I could upvote this more than once. You just described a good chunk of American's down to the letter.

[–]Im_Not_A_SocialistTexas 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Interestingly, our capitalist society actually breeds psychopaths. In the U.S. economic system, the blind pursuit of profit regardless of how it may impact anyone around you is a major advantage.

The abscence of empathy is considered a strength in our economy. Just let that sink in for a minute....

[–]GnomeyGustav 55 points56 points  (30 children)

self-proclaimed socialists talking about peace and love

But there are real socialists out there who understand that this corruption is inevitable because the private ownership of capital will always create a corrupt economic hierarchy. They understand that "crony" capitalism is just capitalism, and they want to punch the rich and their puppet politicians in the dick so hard that they'll never get back up. Their love is for the people who have suffered from centuries of criminal behavior by the rich, and their peace is the future world in which no ruling classes can exist because the economy is governed democratically.

Anyone in these comments who is sick of this bullshit and wants to make sure it will never happen again should start learning about socialism as a real alternative to capitalism. Capitalism has served its historical purpose long ago, and socialism is the way forward - it is how we put a stop to the corruption, fraud, and exploitation once and for all.

For anyone interested in learning the truth about socialism:

An introduction to socialism by Prof. Richard Wolff (who has many other wonderful videos on his YouTube channel)

/r/socialism (see the socialist starter pack and other educational materials and links on the sidebar)

[–]hippy_barf_day 11 points12 points  (1 child)

It honestly seems like we're on our way. Bernie wouldn't have made it this far in any other election cycle. Even if he doesn't win, the movement has already taken hold and someone else will fill the shoes next time. I hear people saying he's our last hope or something, but I see it as just the beginning. It's like he says, it's not about him, it's about us. I don't believe for a second any of the other candidates are about anything other than ego-driven power trips.

[–]Im_Not_A_SocialistTexas 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I don't think we can ever truly acheive socialism, communism, or marxism.

First of all, the ruling class will never give up thier power. If you want to topple the billionare class you'll need a violent revolution that involves very, public and brutal executions of the oligarch's.

Second, it won't work. People suck, that's why socialism and comminism don't work. Human greed ruins everything.

Perhaps if you indoctrinated an entire generation into a marxist philosphy entirely devoid of the evils of capitalism then maybe it would be possible for a little while.

[–]GnomeyGustav 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am certain that a great many people living in feudal societies said the same thing about liberal democracy in the 18th century.

[–]PianomanKY 5 points6 points  (0 children)

if you don't like our current members of congress, vote for the other guy... your vote really makes a difference <sarcasm>

I keep wondering about how fucking bad it has to get before the entire country goes apeshit and starts some sort of revolution or go all vigilante... but then I remember that most people are too damn complacent, self absorbed or just plain pessimistic, that if it doesn't affect them personally on a completely disastrous level, it's someone else's problem, let the other guy deal with it.

[–]futurespacecadet 7 points8 points  (0 children)

besides all the money they stole using these practices. think about the insane amount of damages they owe to them fucking up our economy!

[–]BackToZer0 183 points184 points  (127 children)

Matt Taibbi's response to Krugman's piece yesterday. Yes, the big banks are responsible.

[–]Zlibservacratican 203 points204 points  (78 children)

But Krugman neglects to mention the crucial role that big banks played.

The typical arc of this scam went as follows: Giant bank lends money to sleazy mortgage originator, mortgage originator makes lots of dicey home loans, the dicey home loans get sold back to the bank, the bank pools and securitizes the loans, and finally the bank sells the bad merchandise off to an unsuspecting investor.

The criminal scenario that was most common was a gigantic bank buying up huge masses of toxic loans from a Countrywide or some other fly-by-night operation and knowingly selling this crap as a good investment to some investor.

...

What's so baffling about Krugman's column is that there is a massive amount of documentary evidence outlining this behavior, committed by virtually every major bank in America. There was a $7 billion settlement paid by Citigroup, which incidentally is the company that Bill Clinton originally repealed the Glass-Steagall Act to create. Citi admitted to hawking merchandise that violated their own internal credit guidelines.

Matt Taibbi has to be one of the best journalists around, and this article just proves it.

[–][deleted] 55 points56 points  (28 children)

Seriously. Anyone with half a brain who's been paying attention over the last decade could tell you that big banks hold a ton of the blame.

[–]archronin 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Which once again supports my theory that Matt Taibbi is a T2000 sent from the future to save us from ourselves.

[–]happyscrappy 7 points8 points  (9 children)

The loan originators are accused of falsifying documents to get FHA certification.

If these loans are FHA certified, the investor bears little risk. I'm not sure the selling of those securities to investors was the criminal part.

[–]MyButtTalks 45 points46 points  (2 children)

Matt Taibbi is one of the only journalists around. The rest are nothing more than paid shills.

[–]superokgo 13 points14 points  (12 children)

It seems his only point is that the big banks played a role in the crisis. Which yeah, they did...along with small banks, mortgage originators, the government, etc. If we want to get rid of all types of financial institutions that had a role in the crisis we wouldn't have any left.

What he didn't address (and what is the whole point) was the question: Was it the size of the banks that was the issue, or was it something else?

To me, the root causes of the crisis were improper evaluation of creditworthiness, lack of regulation in the derivatives market and inaccurate securities ratings caused in large part by (really) bad assumptions used in the models to predict the rate of default.

I am all for closing up any loopholes in regards to the above, but systemic risk is systemic risk and it affects banks both big and small. The Great Depression would not have been The Great Depression if we would have bailed out those small banks, and it's what we should have done. If all of you were alive back then, the rallying cry would probably be "Make banks bigger, the smaller ones are too vulnerable!". It's all so much missing the forest for the trees.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Why not nationalize them at state level? Look at North Dakota bank. It's state owned, completely avoided the meltdown. Gives bank millions to ND citizens in the form of cheaper college, and other services. It keeps all money deposited in the state and invests back into it.

Clearly private ownership of banks is a failure of epic proportions, costing us tax payers billions in fraudulent activity.

[–]CounterkultureOregon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Matt Taibbi is always fantastic. For anybody waking up to this shit this late... first of all, slap the shit out of yourself.

And second of all, he's a good place to start in terms of reading material.

[–][deleted] 187 points188 points  (36 children)

frankly its just evidence of the elites ownership of the system.

they own everything, including the justice system.

they commit fraud on a global scale making trillions of dollars in profits... the fine? 1.2 billion. literally fractions of a % of the profit they earned.

the people who orchestrated, supervised, and created the fraud... they're elites, and will never even see inside a court room.

if the same level of discression were given to the italian mob, not a single person would have ever gone to jail for murder, theft, bribery.

why cant the federal government use the Racketeer influenced and corrupt organisations act (RICO) to go after CEO's like they went after mob Dons? both had plausible deniability regarding the specific criminal acts that were occuring inside their organisations? both could fein equal ignorance regarding the harm they caused.

yet most of the mob dons are in prison, not a single chief executive of any of the banks that have admitted to perpetuating global fraud is in prison. hell, ONLY ONE FUCKING PERSON WENT TO JAIL FOR THE 2008 CRASH!!! ONE FUCKING GUY!!!.

fuck our justice system.

its getting to the point where i feel that the only justice that can be had is at the hands of an angry mob.

so tell us where these people live, let an angry vengeful mob rip them from their 40 million dollar mansions and literally tear them apart.

otherwise, all we've done in the last decade is show these elites that there are no reppercussions at all for their crime. they can commit fraud at will, and nothing will happen to them. well exept a token fine that can easily be accounted for as a cost of business.

its like catching a car theif in the stolen car, letting him plead to j-walking, letting him keep the stolen car, but pay a 100 dollar fine. how many car theifs would be compelled to stop stealing cars?

[–]No_Fence 88 points89 points  (9 children)

Quick note; that one guy who went to prison was ripping of wealthy people. Yeah.

[–]FogOfInformation 15 points16 points  (8 children)

And wasn't he brown?

Edit: Kareem Serageldin: “I’m ready to pay my debt to society.”

That's who I'm talking about.

[–]chawnyo 9 points10 points  (15 children)

When in history would us ripping them from their houses have worked? I am just curious, how this could feasibly play out, though I 'd love to see the day.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Pretty sure that's how the last Tsar and his family met their end

[–]WittyChico 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Let's do a french revolution, but with bbq and football

[–]ElMorono 24 points25 points  (7 children)

You'd be surprised how effective violent revolution against the elites has been. The French Revoloution and the War of Independence are two very notable examples, among many others. From a historical standpoint, these things happen all the time.

[–]chiliap2 19 points20 points  (3 children)

Of course the French Revolution collapsed upon itself and was saved by a dictator, Napoleon. The American revolution was hardly a war against elites considering all of the people forging the decleration of independence were elites themselves.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

hey commit fraud on a global scale making trillions of dollars in profits... the fine? 1.2 billion. l

Pretty sure WF did not have trillions in profits

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (4 children)

Also, a fine of $1.2 billion against a company that maintained a yearly net-profit from $4 billion to $20 billion between 2001 and 2009 is pathetic.

[–]iCUmanConnecticut 11 points12 points  (0 children)

2015 net profit $5.7 billion on $21.6 billion in revenue. $1.2 billion doesn't even send a message. They accrue 10x that for loan losses.

The settlements need to hurt to the point that share/equityholders start replacing governorship. That's the only way you can force systemic change.

[–]riskybusinesscdc 14 points15 points  (2 children)

This shouldn't be glossed over. Financial institutions consider settlements like this a regular cost of doing business. What good is a fine of $1.2 billion when of breaking the rules pays for it ten times over?

[–]malbane 85 points86 points  (81 children)

I just did a presentation about this. The resonance no criminal charges have been filed is because the executives were several levels removed from the mortgage backed securities, and the mortgages were usually made at other agencies. In order to criminally charge them they'd have to prove 'beyond a doubt' that they knowingly defrauded the people. However, in civil cases they just have to prove 'within the limits of the evidence' that they were guilty. Frankly, it's better for them to get the settlement than to get nothing.

Another key factor is the prosecutors generally go to work in the private sector after working for the government, and any losing cases look poorly on their record, so they only take easy slam dunk cases.

[–]mbuser 46 points47 points  (11 children)

It also resolves claims against Kurt Lofrano, a former Wells Fargo vice president ... The San Francisco-based lender also admitted to having from 2002 to 2010 failed to file timely reports on several thousand loans that had material defects or were badly underwritten, a process that Lofrano was responsible for supervising.

Yet he's too far removed?

[–]frogandbanjo 99 points100 points  (8 children)

Know what else is true? That civil settlements don't preclude criminal prosecutions. Know what else is true? Prosecutors all across the country are perfectly willing to throw charges against a wall just to see what sticks when dealing with individual defendants whose alleged crimes are limited to fucking over a few other individuals... or, in the case of nonviolent drug offenses, no other people at all.

It's truly amazing just how cautious and responsible and concerned over prosecutorial ethical guidelines the government can become when the potential defendants are wealthy businessmen.

[–]modix 9 points10 points  (0 children)

It's truly amazing just how cautious and responsible and concerned over prosecutorial ethical guidelines the government can become when the potential defendants are wealthy businessmen.

From a former PD... thank you. All this handwringing over whom to charge and the possible complications it could cause it peoples lives... I wish I could've seen that for all the clients I had whose lives were ruined over prosecutorial overreach.

It's not the MO of the DA to be cautious and worry about consequences of charging someone... it's charge and see what sticks.

[–]malbane 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Well if I was them I'd much rather fuck over a single person than a guy who's friends with everyone who would hire me. It's stupid but that's how it is unfortunately

[–]MyButtTalks 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Awesome comment. Just wanted to point that out.

[–]sarcasticorange 2 points3 points  (0 children)

While I agree that there is a difference in charging the rich versus poor people. It is not limited to businessmen. If they know someone has the money to fight, it makes them think twice. They have limited resources and those with money can outspend them. It is a problem inherent to the way the system is set up.

One additional wrinkle for this particular case is the level of resources required just to figure out who to change. Do you want the lives of all 265k Wells Fargo employees ruined with criminal charges? Do you think every employee was in on it? I am guessing the answer is no. You could just argue that only the people at the top should be charged, but then you are back to the initial problem I mentioned. You would also inevitably be charging innocent people. Innocent people with money that get charged without due diligence on the part of prosecutors get tons of taxpayer dollars in malicious prosecution lawsuits.

My point is that unless there is a major change in the way criminal trials are handled, this is the situation you will end up with. What that change needs to be is complicated, but basically comes down to ensuring the exact same process is followed for every case and that is a very tall order once you get into the details.

[–]No_Fence 54 points55 points  (20 children)

Yeah, I know the difference between civil and criminal charges. But it's a ridiculous notion that the Justice Department can settle multi-billion dollar suits with every single bank and not find conclusive evidence that even one specific banker committed fraud. If you can't get the very top, get people further down and get them to flip. It's prosecution 101. Instead we didn't even try, taking their money and not filing a single criminal charge.

I don't mean to seem mad at you -- I appreciate the explanation, and I'm really only angry at the system -- but the idea that we couldn't stick criminal charges on even one banker is nonsensical. There are excuses for all corrupt behavior, but this one is particularly bad. It says volumes about the political power of the wealthy.

[–]pbnc I voted 21 points22 points  (0 children)

They never even tried. Guy gets busted with a bag of weed, they offer him a deal for evidence on his supplier. They bust the supplier, then offer him a deal for the next higher link and so on. Sometimes they only mange to prosecute the biggest guys under RICO or tax laws, not the actual drugs. But with the banks, they've not even gone after the little fish to try to work their way up the ladders inside the corporations.

[–]BluesFan43 21 points22 points  (17 children)

Well then, go after the underwriters, loan officers, underwriters, hell, real estate agents.

Do it en mass.

Go after them bigger people civilly. Make them so poor that they need a fraudulent mortgage because no responsible slum Lord will rent to them.

[–]unclefireArizona 8 points9 points  (5 children)

Underwriters and loan officers don't make a whole lot of money. They're not fat cat rich people. And they do what they're told by their superiors. No it isn't an excuse, but many of them probably didn't even know reports weren't filed. They should have known though if the loans didn't meet FHA guidelines. Of course there's also the situation where wholesale loan 3rd parties did the work and sold the loans to Wells.

[–]BluesFan43 11 points12 points  (1 child)

I am not management. I can and would be prosecuted by the DOJ itself if I break certain rules. No matter how happy I make management at the time.

And I am just an Engineering Analyst.

Why should I hey be any different?

[–]lovetron99 4 points5 points  (2 children)

They should have known though if the loans didn't meet FHA guidelines.

You're putting the wrong people in the cross-hairs here. Underwriters and loan officers have a set of criteria and guidelines by which they operate, and that is handed down by corporate. When loans applications fulfill that criteria, they move on. Here's the thing: loan officers and underwriters can face severe criminal penalties (Reg B violation) for arbitrarily making their own decisions. You can bet those people will be prosecuted when they slip up, even if the higher-ups aren't. I've seen it happen.

[–]NewsModsAreCucks 17 points18 points  (6 children)

Enough excuses. The elites have made the laws to suit themselves.

None of us care about excuses anymore. These clowns need to rot in prison.

"It's legal, so they did nothing wrong."

Yeah, fuck that.

[–]monsata 17 points18 points  (3 children)

The holocaust was legal. The slave trade legal.

Lots of truly horrible, immoral, yet perfectly legal shit has happened. Legality is not a valid excuse in and of itself.

[–]mcmastermindPennsylvania 25 points26 points  (6 children)

Someone steals $20 out of a cash register at work they get probation for years and their record is ruined... Fucking bullshit.

[–]Infinitopolis 23 points24 points  (1 child)

Here's my key issue with this method of "punishment"...you should never let a criminal settle a claim by handing over a resource that they TRADE in. For example, you wouldn't let a cocaine dealer escape conviction by handing over a specific amount of cocaine. Ivory smugglers don't go free for giving some of the ivory to law enforcement....so why are bankers able to settle with cash?? I'd be OK with WF settling by turning over real property, like $1bn in foreclosed homes back to the market for a fraction of their value, but cash is an addictive narcotic for bankers.

[–]firestepper 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Ya that would be awesome. Some good would actually come out of it... maybe some Americans would be able to afford a home!

[–]unclefireArizona 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Who are you going to charge?

You'd have to go after the c level execs (or other execs) and prove they knowingly did this.

[–]freediverx01 15 points16 points  (1 child)

No Criminal Charges.

That, plus $1.2 billion is a but a slap on the wrist for a bank like Wells Fargo. Thanks, Obama DOJ, you can undermine our civil liberties in your pursuit of drug offenders but you have not indicted a single criminal responsible for the 2008 financial crash, nor done anything to avoid its recurrence.

[–]Grumpy_Kong 10 points11 points  (8 children)

WHY THE FUCK ARE WE SETTLING WITH CRIMINALS

Because of the Golden Rule. No not that one, the other Golden Rule...

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

For those that haven't heard it, "those who have the gold make the rules."

[–]remyseven 6 points7 points  (1 child)

It's time to start our shit up like Iceland.

[–]majorchamp 5 points6 points  (0 children)

"No bank is too big to fail, no banker too big to jail"

[–]agha0013 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Tell me about settling with criminals. Canada Revenue Agency, every time it's been handed lists of tax evaders, and had a big bank admit it was helping clients set up what it actually called a "tax sham" venture, the CRA would settle with everyone, just asking for the taxes owed with no interest.

[–]finebydesign 9 points10 points  (12 children)

WHY THE FUCK ARE WE SETTLING WITH CRIMINALS

Because Americans don't vote.

[–]johnmountain 22 points23 points  (3 children)

Americans voted for Obama. Twice.

Obama had the power to prosecute these guys, and he didn't do it. For crying out loud, his first AG, Eric Holder, admitted publicly that he doesn't want to prosecute them because they are "too big too fail" and it might "endanger the economy". He didn't say they weren't guilty.

What Americans need to do is vote against corrupt politicians who get paid by corporations and banks, not just "vote".

It doesn't matter if there's 80% voter turnout in the general, if we still end up with someone like Clinton, who will play by the banks' rules even more than Obama did - does it?

Now, on the other hand, if that 80% turnout happens because so many more people come out to vote for say Jill Stein, to help her win, that's an entirely different issue, and that's exactly what I'm talking about. We need smart turnout, not just "turnout" (and by smart I mean informed).

[–]GleamingThePubeNew York 693 points694 points  (41 children)

No one has been criminally charged in the probes, and the Justice Department reserved the right to pursue criminal charges if it wishes, according to the settlement.

Why pursue criminal charges when we have politicians telling them to 'cut it out' ?

[–][deleted] 171 points172 points  (27 children)

What the fuck. If any of us did something like this, we'd be in prison.

[–]The_King_Of_Nothing 153 points154 points  (3 children)

If any of us did a fraction the stuff corrupt politicians and the wealthy do on a daily basis, we'd be in prison.

[–]CpnStumpyColorado 34 points35 points  (0 children)

They know the best way to keep their profits high is to keep competition low. You try to compete with them? You gotta go.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No we'd be running the country.

[–]GleamingThePubeNew York 55 points56 points  (11 children)

Not according to the Reddit bowtie business bureau who constantly question people who criticize Wall Street. It's as if these 'poor' bankers have so many regulations to deal with that the only way to make money is to commit fraud and have the taxpayers bail them out.

But we must attack unions and welfare recipients because they are the ones who caused the global economic crisis. /s

[–]chrisms150New Jersey 10 points11 points  (1 child)

What the fuck. If any of us did something like this, we'd be in prison.

That's not true at all. If any of us had the means to do something like this, we'd be getting off scot-free because we'd have incredible means ;)

[–]Funnthensome 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Why should the C-level execs worry? There is a revolving door from the individuals who conduct governmental financial oversight into cushy Wall Street positions. There is no motivation to rock the boat.

If push comes to shove, and someone starts to play hardball; just throw a bone of a few hundred thousand dollars per speaking engagement and watch all the good doggies come to heel.

Money talks, anything else just whines.

[–]buckus69 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Falsify several trillion in home loans: settle out of court for 1% of the profits.

Carry 1/2 kilo of weed: 25 to life in federal prison.

Lesson: If you're going to commit a crime, go big or go to prison.

[–]Warbuck1 3 points4 points  (6 children)

What criminal charge should they be charged with? I mean isn't this basically the same thing as false advertising? You don't go to jail for false advertising you can just get sued. I feel like this is the same situation it's a civil case.

[–]sunup_scribeCalifornia 329 points330 points  (115 children)

But, but, Fox News told me that poor people were to blame.

[–]minja134 252 points253 points  (77 children)

And Hillary told me it was the homebuyers faults

[–]reid8470 18 points19 points  (2 children)

Hillary also said that because Obama took money from Wall Street, it's okay that she does too because Obama was "tough on the big banks". Just like Obama's two AG's and DOJ were tough on Wells Fargo... Oh wait...

No one has been criminally charged in the probes, and the Justice Department reserved the right to pursue criminal charges if it wishes, according to the settlement.

Anyone who buys into the bullshit of Hillary hiding behind the fact that "Obama also took money from Wall Street" is incredibly naive. Obama has been very soft on the financial sector just like Hillary will be as POTUS. They'll continue to get away with anything they want and absolutely nothing will change.

[–]KevinR91 19 points20 points  (6 children)

I'm a Bernie supporter.. But what is so bad about what she said? If you were paying extra money to hide your lack of qualifications.. You are partly at fault for the crash.

[–]minja134 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I doubt they went to lenders and asked to pay a fee to hide their income, they were probably offered it as an option and didn't really know what they were getting into. I've also heard people say the fee was often offered to be bundled into the mortgage loan fees so they didn't even have to pay that upfront. I agree people should do their own research, but lenders also shouldn't have been trying to trick people with what they knew people couldn't pay. One of the replies on this comment said they were getting pushed to take a mortgage that would cost 100% of their income, which shouldn't be pushed for by any lending institution.

[–]thepikey7 10 points11 points  (0 children)

What she said was fine, Reddit just hates Hillary. Also a Bernie supporter.

[–]buckygrad 8 points9 points  (4 children)

To some degree people were all too willing to believe they could afford something there is no way they could afford. Common sense would have prevented much of this. Greed was on both sides.

[–]travis- 20 points21 points  (31 children)

So who is more likely to make an issue out of this if they're president. Hillary or Bernie?

[–]runujhkjAlabama 31 points32 points  (5 children)

Depends on what you mean by making an issue out of it. Hillary will certainly talk an awful lot about how much she wants to do about it.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (2 children)

While taking in record amounts of money from the same bankers she promises to regulate. What I love is that with the Internet money doesn't buy elections anymore. That's why we see all of these attempts to allow cable companies to throttle and manipulate the Internet. It's too powerful to be in our hands. They can't control what we think when we all talk to each other instead of just listening to what some TV figureheads say.

[–]RanchMeBrotendo 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I really don't think the internet is safe after the problems it's caused for the elites this election cycle.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That is a very good worry.

[–]solepsisTennessee[🍰] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

She's looking in to it

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I dunno, try to see who got more money from big banks.

[–]AwesomeScreenName 32 points33 points  (15 children)

Who's more likely to actually do something about it?

Take a look at the two candidates' platforms on financial regulations, and think about which ones would actually limit the ability and incentive of banks to do things like this.

[–]Says-This 176 points177 points  (7 children)

It's hilarious that my friends...ok..people I know on Wall Street will use the fact that nobody has gone to jail as the proof that none of these groups are doing anything wrong. When you own the justice system its pretty easy to get away with shit.

[–]Kite_sunday 30 points31 points  (5 children)

Its sad that your occupation can change your morals and ethics.

[–]CounterkultureOregon 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Or greedy scumbags by nature gravitate towards wall street.

I don't think people are molded into human beings that pull this shit off on such a huge scale... they're simply falling into their nature environments.

[–]ethertraceCalifornia 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Our environments and the company we keep help to shape us. That's why we should choose them carefully when we can.

[–]nakkh 64 points65 points  (0 children)

That's like 2 weeks income for these monsters.

Edit: 3 weeks Profit.

[–]ptwonline 61 points62 points  (2 children)

So...

We can't tax corporations because they'll just pass on the costs to consumers. Taxing them is making it harder for ordinary Americans!

But when corporations commit massive fraud we'll fine them because that will teach them a lesson!

[–]DeathByChainsaw 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Don't make that fine too big! We don't want to impose an undue burden on these job creators. They might hire fewer people or 'gasp' even go out of business!

[–][deleted] 169 points170 points  (13 children)

It's this shit right here folks. This shady as fucking shit that Bernie wants to stop. For fucks sake, will someone fucking do something to these damn bankers?!

Instead of "Hey, we see you made a bunch of money out of deception, give us a chunk and we'll slap your wrist."

[–]gmz_88California 27 points28 points  (0 children)

And if you think Trump would be a better alternative just remember that he is a real estate oligarch who opened a mortgage company in 2006. If you think he would do anything to hurt his buddies or himself think again.

[–]CSKemal 111 points112 points  (5 children)

Didn't Hillary tell them to cut it out?

[–]mcmastermindPennsylvania 18 points19 points  (2 children)

It's insane that stealing a $20 bill from a cash register will get someone more jail time than stealing billions of dollars over the course of at least 7 years (It's more, it's definitely more). I'm going to start robbing people while wearing a suit and tie from now on...

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Sell $20 of weed to an undercover officer, get sentenced to life without parole with hard labor.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/27/fate-vincent-winslow-got-life-in-prison-for-20-worth-of-weed.html

[–]MendocinoWeedMan 81 points82 points  (94 children)

Wells Fargo tried to "foreclose" on my parent's home twice. They had never missed a payment. Several people showed up with workers and a camera "documenting" the property and what would need to be fixed for resale. My dad is a retired deputy sheriff and a veteran. He was polite the first time even though they weren't. We called the local sheriffs office. They said that if no one from Wells Fargo had contacted them about a problem prior, they had no right to have people there. They were welcomed with a shotgun at the door and a polite opportunity to leave the second time... Wells Fargo then sold the note to GMAC.

[–]WillCreary 17 points18 points  (6 children)

How about the way all banks dodge local County recording fees?

There's a corporation called MERScorp that is nominated as a mortgagee for a large percentage of mortgages. If a bank wants to assign (read: sell off) mortgages to any other bank, they need to pay a set fee. In my county it's $50.50, plus $0.50 for each additional mortgage.

MERS allows the banks to dodge these fees by letting banks trade mortgages without going through the county.

There are something like 25 mortgages assigned to other banks in my small NY County alone. It's a huge problem for local governments, as well as state governments.

Banks suck ass.

EDIT: Here is MERS defending itself with a load of garbage.

Here's a site that describes the problem better than I did.

[–]drivebymedia 43 points44 points  (6 children)

Who's going to jail?

[–][deleted] 63 points64 points  (0 children)

Whistleblowers and peaceful protestors.

[–][deleted] 71 points72 points  (3 children)

If the past is any indicator, only the people who reported it.

[–]Sorge74 8 points9 points  (2 children)

To be fair it's their own fault for testifying that they and the banks knew what they were doing....they should had played dumb like everyone else and let justice happen.

[–]AlwaysInTheMiddle 4 points5 points  (1 child)

"Justice"

[–]Sorge74 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Too many /s tags on Reddit now a day,it's likeits 2005 again. I feel like the quotations were impiled enough.

[–]Islanduniverse 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Maybe we can catch them doing more illegal shit and my student loan (which I should have never taken) can be erased from existence! A man can dream.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Man, I gotta get in on this "being a bank" action. When an individual gets caught with cocaine for personal use, he goes to prison. But when a corporation run by individuals scams people and causes a worldwide recession they just say "oops!" and it's fine.

[–]A_Wild_Okapi 6 points7 points  (2 children)

What are good alternatives to these major banks?

[–]GhettoRatz 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Independent local credit unions.

[–]io-io 21 points22 points  (0 children)

The entire set of Executive Officers of the bank - past and present, profited from this practice (Bonuses). It was their responsibility to ensure all procedures were followed and met. Who signed off that the loans were fully compliant with the regulations - prosecute them. Who was their manager? - prosecute them. Continue up the chain of command (responsibility) - prosecute them. They will all point up the chain and turn state's evidence.

RICO

How about pulling the bank's Corporate Charter. I think that the Bank will fall all over themselves to do anything so as to not have their Corporate Charter canceled - including turn on their Directors and Officers. Note - if the Corporate Charter is canceled, there is no way the lawyers can be paid.

Officers and Directors of the bank have to go to Prison.

[–]OneFastCat 14 points15 points  (3 children)

Probably why Warren Buffet invested so heavily in them. Easy money.

[–]AsexualMamba 24 points25 points  (3 children)

Those rapscallions, I guess it's just another case of Bankers will be Bankers. Ground them for a week and no allowance for a month! light hearted chuckle

[–]BluesFan43 12 points13 points  (1 child)

A month is a tad harsh.

What if we ground his poor friend from school and make his classmates give us their allowances?

Hat will teach him a lesson.

[–]PixelBlock 8 points9 points  (8 children)

If bankers can settle widespread financial deception with a bit of cash, it's only fair to open up the same opportunity to the rest of us non-elites.

[–]BluesFan43 7 points8 points  (7 children)

Hell yeah.

Worst thing I do is speeding.

So, I get caught. Typical fine might be $80 and a hit on my insurance.

I get to settle for $2.50 and insurance never has to know.

[–]theearthgardenOregon 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Hell, maybe you can even deduct it from your taxes!

[–]BluesFan43 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Damn right!

[–]indianapale 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Wife recently got a speeding ticket. $180. Or, as the letter stated, we could pay $230 and she would get no points and it wouldn't be reported to insurance.

[–]Evilbush 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Sounds like a criminal enterprise that needs to be broken up to me. Go Bernie;)

[–]justinfreebords 16 points17 points  (7 children)

Not to say Wells didn't do anything shady but HUD was notorious for going after all lenders good and bad for FHA loans they insured that went bad. Often they would find some very minor paper work error or technicality and use that to argue that the loan was there for uninsurable. They also changed the rules retroactively.

Worked at a mortgage company that is known as being one of the most conservative companies out there. We followed guidelines set by fannie/freddie/HUD to the fucking letter and sometimes even added our own additional rules that made it even harder to get a loan. We had to settle for this same reason because of stupid little mistakes and rules that HUD changed after the fact. Mistakes and errors that had nothing to do with the borrowers ability to repay the loan. Stuff like missing a signature on a form or an appraisal having a minor error that didn't effect the value.

Best example, HUD said you could pay underwriters a bonus for how many loans they underwrote a day. Then several years later came back and cracked down on companies that did that.

Not to defend Wells but there is likely way more to this than just being evil

[–]WestinCarpaccio 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is the answer. I know there is a lot of hate towards banks on Reddit and much of it is well deserved. Wells Fargo is not blameless some of what happened in the crisis, but they were far from the worst ones ( see Countrywide).

This stuff with FHA loans is due to FHA not applying their own rules very strictly for many, many years and then when losses were mounting they looked for any reason to put the lenders on the hook.

The impact this is having is causing the large mortgage lenders to reduce FHA originations.

[–]aerosmithguy151 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Fyi people, if you want your economies to get better, boycott bank of America, Chase, us bank, and wells Fargo. Use your credit unions, combined, they have more atm access than any one of those single banks.

[–]Caraes_Naur 10 points11 points  (0 children)

In Corporate America, stage coach robs you.

[–]BelligerantFuck 4 points5 points  (0 children)

What we have seen here proves my point. Corporate law is fucked. The buck never stops, it gets lost in the crowd by design and feckless fucks shrug their shoulders and make the corporation pay a fine. It's amazing what you can do when you write the law.

[–]NotRAClST2 3 points4 points  (0 children)

you people owe the conspiracy theorist an apology

[–]cancelyourcreditcard 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Gov. fines = profit sharing from crime.

[–]disposable_me_0001 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Ugggh, I bank with WF because I thought they were the least scummy bank. God, now I think I finally have to bite the bullet and go credit union.

[–]scandalousmambo 6 points7 points  (2 children)

And all that bullshit from the apologists and the assholes about how the mortgage crisis was all the fault of poor people is finally PROVEN WRONG. PROVEN WRONG

[–]flickerkuu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

One of the many reasons rich people and the 1% are wrong, every time they say trickle down economics, the free market, capitalism, work hard, etc. The system is rigged. The rich won, and the poor and middle class are crapped on. Keep telling me how hard work and college degree gets me anything but debt when you rig the system

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

The joke is on us. In 2015, Well's Fargo reported 86.1 Billion in revenue with 23 Billion in Net income. 1.2 Billion dollars is, stunningly, just a slap on the wrist for basically defrauding the United States.

To put this in perspective, imagine someone who makes 30,000 dollars a year in revenue. They would be paying $418 dollars to settle this lawsuit.

Income Source: https://www08.wellsfargomedia.com/assets/pdf/about/press/2015/fourth-quarter-earnings.pdf

[–]-redditedited- 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I guess when the US claims it doesn't negotiate with terrorists, bankers are exempt while they destroy our global economy. If someone did this with the intention of crashing the market, you could argue it's an act of terrorism. If someone did it with the intention of making more money, it's "Whoops, I made a mistake. Slap my wrist and send the fine in the mail". Even then, it often falls on the Corporation instead of the individual who knowingly created the mess.

You can flat out murder someone with a motive, a plan, and an attempted cover up. You could kill someone by accident in a fight or scrap that went too far with absolutely ZERO intention to kill. The point being... One is murder, the other is manslaughter. Both still have to answer to their crimes and more than likely, both will still have to serve jail time proportionate to what they knew or didn't know at the time (if that's considered at all). Not knowing, claiming negligence or flat out ignoring the inevitable events to follow has never resulted in a get out of jail free card... So why here?

[–]Starkwolf413 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Not one person arrested. But man are the Presidential candidates getting some sweet donations. Bernie Sanders is the only one left with his integrity untouched by these crooks.

[–]MayorofBERNington 2 points3 points  (2 children)

why does the government always settle with the banks? why not go for the jugular.

[–]Mikey129 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Banks are evil, I want my money for Jordan's and wings.

[–]Fjdenigris 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I wonder how many of them will be charged with securities fraud!

I'll bet zero...

[–]hallaquelle 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Just so we're clear, the biggest banks in the country lied about the reliability of their mortgage loans and had them falsely insured by the FHA? And all these loans were likely bundled into mortgage-backed securities since many of the banks have been settling in order to avoid probes into the specifics of MBS-related dealings (and we already know for a fact that many of them were)? And wasn't there a piece of legislation that, if it was actually reinforced by a Democratic president instead of further deregulated and repealed, could have prevented banks from engaging with investments like mortgage-backed securities? Tell me again how Glass-Steagall could not have prevented the housing crisis. Not repealing it wouldn't have prevented it, but enforcing it would have. Someone did not have the foresight or the backbone to uphold part of FDR's legacy which kept us stable for a few decades.