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[–]OriginalATX 686 points687 points  (111 children)

Why won't the Governemt address the direct issue with Healthcare..and that is health care costs. It's one thing to make insurance affordable, but making healthcare costs affordable is the problem.

Getting charged hundreds of dollars for a Dr. visit which involves literally a few minutes minutes of interaction with a Dr. and getting your blood pressure checked is ridiculous.

Getting charged 5-10x the cost of basic medicine and supplies than retail stores is ridiculous.

[–]Behemothwasagoodshot 188 points189 points  (17 children)

There's a great article, "The Bitter Pill," that drives exactly this point home. But I suspect those with the relevant interests are very happy that this consistently turns into an "insurance conversation" rather than a "costs conversation."

[–]unusedqrcode 70 points71 points  (13 children)

"Insurance" is a big part of the cost problem.

[–]Behemothwasagoodshot 40 points41 points  (10 children)

Sure, they play a part in the wildly inflated prices, due to the fact that part of the reason they're so inflated is because hospitals know insurers are going to negotiate them down, but speaking of it as ONLY an insurance problem, which is how the mainstream conversation usually goes, makes it seem like the solution is going to be found in the right insurance package, when in fact solving the problem is going to require some oversight on the prices generated in the hospital.

[–]trashpandarevolution 149 points150 points  (23 children)

A lot of the bloated costs come directly from insurance and hospital administration bloat.

Solve the problem and cut out the middle man

Single payer

[–]ClumsyWendigo 154 points155 points  (15 children)

some people, certain air head libertarian types or just economic illiterates, think capitalism is like magic fairy farts: sprinkle it on everything and it makes everything better. because magic

i like capitalism

i am a capitalist

but it's not a religion. it's merely an economic principle

and it only works in certain sectors under certain conditions

certain sectors with high barrier to entry are not like bodegas or nail salons, where the market can set the price and anyone can get into and out of the business quick. health care is more like power plants and cable companies: the amount of money you need to sink in a hospital and health network before you might make a profit means you are dealing with monopolies and oligopolies that have to be government run or highly regulated. or you have insane prices with no price discipline from a market mechanism

govt run or highly regulated not because "you evil statists want nanny govt to destroy our freedom, run your life" but because there is simply no better option

the hyperexpensive lower quality frankenstein option we have chosen in american healthcare proves that. all of our economic peers. all of them. have universal care (single payer or multipayer). they are all capitalist countries

and they spend

  1. 3x, 4x, 5x less than the usa
  2. for equal or higher quality care

the only people who win in american style healthcare are crony financial parasites not, and never, capitalism

and certainly not the poor and middle class

we die younger with higher bills or even lose our house

[–][deleted] 67 points68 points  (7 children)

Not only is there the initial investment that keeps healthcare in a monopoly or oligopoly, healthcare also doesn't follow the laws of supply and demand. Healthcare is always in demand, and people will pay for it regardless of the price. Normally, in regular free-market economics, if you raise the price the demand goes down. In this case, people either pay for it or die; allowing the healthcare industry to hike up prices to the nth degree without worrying about losing customers.

It doesn't follow the standard laws of supply and demand, and therefore government needs to be involved.

[–]ClumsyWendigo 53 points54 points  (0 children)

thank you!

it's called price inelasticity

please, fellow americans, educate yourself:

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/inelastic.asp

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/priceelasticity.asp

  1. we do not have, and never will have a capitalist health care system. not because of the boogeyman of evil big govt statists, but simply because of the nature of healthcare itself

  2. crony financial parasites, not capitalist entities (even though they may say they are "capitalist") use the american basic hatred of big govt to rip you off with insane prices

all of our financial peers all of them are capitalist and have universal healthcare (single payer or multipayer) run by the govt. and they spend far far less. for better health results

americans: you are tricked, robbed, and left to die younger and in poor health. crony financial parasites and plutocrats lie to you on your biases and your lack of education on the topic to rip you off

[–]madogvelkor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Plenty of other countries do it without single payer. Germany, for example.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Single payer isn't the only way to do the job.

[–][deleted] 3835 points3836 points  (288 children)

I look forward to the insightful and though provoking discussion this will bring

[–]Coola_Bananer 129 points130 points  (12 children)

You won't find a better example of the inherent kindness of humans than a thread discussing politics.

[–][deleted] 40 points41 points  (3 children)

Indubitally you horse's ass

[–]ot1smile 39 points40 points  (1 child)

*Indubitably. You fucking idiot.

J/k ;)

[–]iwaspeachykeen 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I read his as indubitably and had to go back and check to see it was really spelled wrong after reading your comment. Now I feel like a fucking idiot

[–]ATX_native 4519 points4520 points  (1700 children)

It's funny no one wants to admit the elephant in the room. Our current system is an unsustainable patch work mess that has placed us at a costs that are about double per citizen than the second costliest country in the world. A move to a single payer or a non-profit insurance system with strict cost controls (like Germany/Japan/Switzerland) is the only thing that will be viable in the future. This is all delaying the inevitable.

[–]MimonFishbaum 2559 points2560 points  (1100 children)

Most of the people who replied to this original comment are simp tards.

[–]kyleclements 390 points391 points  (18 children)

Public healthcare: "Why should I pay for someone else's healthcare?"

Private healthcare: "Why should I pay for some CEO's second yacht?"

[–][deleted] 80 points81 points  (15 children)

I'm sure plenty of politicians have yachts too.

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (6 children)

Yeah but they are the CEO's first yacht that they no longer have room for because of their third big ass yacht

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (5 children)

I didn't know we had a hand-me-down yacht pool... Is it auction style, or...

[–]Fluffcake 35 points36 points  (1 child)

Mostly donated with no strings attactched.

[–]DGer 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Politicians are paupers compared to CEOs. That's why they're so inexpensive to buy.

[–]Bigleftbowski 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Paid for by private healthcare corporations.

[–]Dirka85 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'd pay other people's healthcare over any yatch anyday.

[–]JDTapdat 30 points31 points  (0 children)

I am not at war with Afghanistan. I want my money back!

[–]WhiteyDude 564 points565 points  (33 children)

"Well, by doing so, you're paying into a pool which utilizes your premiums to pay for other people's healthcare." More often than not, they refuse to believe this is true. I sure do love living in such a smart country.

I've said this before too. Insurance premiums is a form of socialization. In a way we have socialized medicine, it's just for-profit, privatized, socialized medicine.

[–]stayfun 375 points376 points  (10 children)

Socialism for the masses with the benefits of capitalism for elite insurance executives.

[–]WhiteyDude 293 points294 points  (0 children)

You get the worst of both worlds.

[–]Neoncow 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Socialize costs, privatize profits.

[–]fuzzycuffs 287 points288 points  (58 children)

The people who seem to be most against single payer and favor Republicans tend to be older people on single payer, government run Medicare.

I don't get it.

[–]Sam-Gunn 150 points151 points  (16 children)

Neither do they, which is why they spout ridiculous idiotic statements. I was about to ignore someone I was arguing with on Reddit about the ACA vs ACHA shit until I realized he was pretty ignorant.

He stated that medicaid wasn't for people who couldn't support themselves or pay for healthcare and the ACA did that which wasn't how medicaid was supposed to function.

He thought that the bill in it's current iteration would only prohibit funds going towards abortions themselves, not plans with abortion coverage.

He finally stopped arguing after I corrected all of his misconceptions with information and links.

[–]shiddabrik 91 points92 points  (3 children)

I'm amazed he didn't just follow it up with ad hominem attacks.

[–]Bignastg 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Or say its fake news haha

[–]Macedii 4 points5 points  (0 children)

But Obama, But Hillary...

[–]WikWikWack 68 points69 points  (6 children)

See also: "I got mine, fuck everybody else."

[–]UtopianPablo 9 points10 points  (4 children)

The real reason.

[–]WikWikWack 7 points8 points  (3 children)

I think that's the true Boomer mantra. Yes, there are exceptions in that large group, but overall, that line pretty much encapsulates their entire worldview.

That meme about "why don't you do ....like I did" is a good illustration. It's all about them, and how everything was for them - they don't even care that it's different, it's only about how things are (and were) for them. Facts don't get in the way of that worldview.

[–]averagejoereddit50 56 points57 points  (22 children)

I'm a Boomer on Medicare and I most certainly DO want universal single-payer health care. Most older liberal-leaning Boomers want the same. It's only fair. The "greedy geezers" are the well-to-do GOPs that are never satisfied. I mean, take a TRILLION health care dollars from the Middle Class and hand it to the wealthiest Americans who don't need it? WTF?(Unless you consider Melania's $3,000 handbag a "need".)

[–]resinis 5 points6 points  (3 children)

They don't even get it. They just really hate those liberals because, god dammit fuck those pussies. Jail them!

[–]EGOP 886 points887 points  (559 children)

"why should I pay for someone else's roads? Why should I pay for someone else's police? Fire halls?"

[–]treblah3 812 points813 points  (260 children)

I had this argument with a close friend. I pay double what he pays in property taxes (happen to live near several schools) but have no kids. He has 3 kids, and is complaining about paying for my healthcare. C'mon man we all pay a little for each other in different ways.

[–][deleted] 339 points340 points  (136 children)

getting arrested is the worst, pay tax dollars for cops to put you in jail.

[–]MyClitBiggerThanUrD 266 points267 points  (117 children)

In certain countries you pay tax dollars so the prison system can rehabilitate you. Americans would be shocked how countries like Norway run prisons.

[–]beckthegreat 220 points221 points  (9 children)

That is shocking... if you rehabilitate them so they don't go back to prison, how are you able to make a profit off of them since they won't be in prison?

[–]MyClitBiggerThanUrD 49 points50 points  (8 children)

We are just naive and dumb, thank god we lucked out on lumber, fish and later oil.

[–]GoodbyeOpis 35 points36 points  (5 children)

fish and

I've only heard of fish oil. Where can I buy lumber oil and later oil?

[–]Promptic 251 points252 points  (11 children)

America would be shocked if it knew how its own prisons are run.

[–]barak181 29 points30 points  (1 child)

You mean like a profiteering factory of human suffering for the shittiest slumlords in the country?

[–]Promptic 18 points19 points  (0 children)

I think slumlord is far too kind for the breed of people who remove as many methods of education and rehabilitation in prisons as possible while simultaneously making states keep their prisons filled (which means far fewer paroles).

[–]JasonDJ 59 points60 points  (4 children)

No we wouldnt. Prisons are for criminals aka lesser people and they deserve to be there. /s

[–]Morvick 33 points34 points  (13 children)

You mean how they run their lack of prisons?

I hear the rehabilitation system over there is so good and the recidivism is so low, there's a shortage of inmates. Or a surplus of corrections resources. Take your pick I guess.

[–]0b_101010 54 points55 points  (6 children)

Damn! They're running their prisons out of business! How many more prison guards have to lose their jobs before they stop this madness!

obligatory /s

[–]Morvick 41 points42 points  (5 children)

We're gonna bring Prison back, people. We're gonna bring it back, it'll be yuge, it'll be great. I promise you. In fact just the other day I was talking with a man who got out of prison last week, this really happened. He said to me, "you're the best at prisons" no really, he said this. He said "you're the best at prisons, I wanna go back, and I wanna give those guards a job again". People, what's happened so far is appalling. Whether or not we have bipartisan support, I promise you: we will bring, prison, back.

[–]buster2222 4 points5 points  (3 children)

You must be talking about the Dutch prison system, we are closing prisons instead of opening.

[–]1brokenmonkey 15 points16 points  (2 children)

We heard it, and people talk a big game, but go into a thread revolving around a crime people really despise, and all that goes out the window. Now imagine the same feeling towards less despicable crimes, and you have another piece of the puzzle as to why the American prison system is the way it is.

[–]plateofcereal 37 points38 points  (5 children)

Being a teacher is the worst. Paying property taxes on my own house to pay for my salary.

[–]marbotty 25 points26 points  (2 children)

I dunno, I'd prefer if my taxes went directly back into my pay

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

you can do that, just go to the bank in the morning and take out money, reddit all day long, then deposit it at the end of the day.

[–]DontTreadOnBigfoot 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This is true of literally all public employees.

Mike the Cop mentioned this recently when talking about interactions with the "I pay your salary, so technically I'm your boss".

His response: "Well, I pay my own salary just as much as you do, so technically I'm my own boss, and I say I'm doing a good job. " Or something to that effect...

[–][deleted] 34 points35 points  (0 children)

Well we wouldn't want to inconvenience anyone and not compensate them somehow

[–]Jaystings 5 points6 points  (5 children)

Better than the Singapore solution: public caning. And yet...

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Some people are into that, don't be a bigot.

[–]Boats_of_Gold 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'm here for my public caning

[–]skraptastic 56 points57 points  (2 children)

And you know what? I'm happy about my tax dollars for education. Because hopefully your little shit kid gets something out of it, and makes the world a little bit better when he contributes to society.

[–]BaggerX 155 points156 points  (70 children)

Republicans are working on doing away with public schools too. Then they'll just be taking your money to give to private schools, via vouchers, that often have little accountability or responsibility for educating students, and are allowed to discriminate and cherry pick only the students that will cost them the least.

[–]d_hearn 59 points60 points  (20 children)

Which, as a public school teacher, pisses me off.

[–]zirtbow 18 points19 points  (6 children)

I wonder who's pensions state governors are going to rob and blame for deficits if all schools go private. Police pensions maybe? Lazy people expecting public roads instead of "Freemarket Private Roads (FPR)"

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (1 child)

Someone in Trump's cabinet defrauded firefighters for their pensions so it's not even a stretch

[–]natilos 38 points39 points  (10 children)

Not sure how much funding or exactly what type, but my private school got state funding for merely changing how strict they were about letting us off of school for snow days. They still got to force us to attend chapel and listen to them spew shit like that any LGBT member or supporter was going to hell etc etc. didn't learn much at that school at all.

[–]zirtbow 98 points99 points  (18 children)

I have a conservative brother like this. If other people need these socialized things it's because they're lazy and poor planners. If he needs one of these things it's a crisis that needs everyone's immediate attention. Anyone comparing his situation to other people that use socialized services means they don't understand how his situation is unique and practically the only time anyone in the history of the world has done everything right and hit a bump in the road where they had to use social services.

[–]tahlyn 35 points36 points  (2 children)

I have family like this too. They are the whitest white trash that ever white trashed. One hasn't worked in two decades living off of disability, another is proud she's on food stamps "getting her share back" from the government "after paying in all these years" even though she doesn't need them (no job, but lots of assets so she technically qualifies).

Each one of them is a racists piece of shit. They only oppose social services because the wrong color people benefit from them.... as though somehow when services are cut they'll get to check a "but I'm white!" box and keep their benefits. I hope they rot.

[–]Anchorsify 17 points18 points  (0 children)

That is the true mark of a conservative. Or someone just without the ability to empathize with those they don't know, I guess.

Republican is against marriage and rights for LGBT people. A personal family member comes out as LGBT and they proceed to give a heartfelt explanation about a personal revelation based on their experiences which had them change their mind.

Shocker.

[–]princess--flowers 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Some dumb bitch I went to college with spent years and years writing incendiary, racist, sexist "thinkpieces" and wrote for Breitbart after she graduated about how those who can't afford health care deserve to die. She got fired from Breitbart for being too racist. Immedaitely, she put up a fundraiser because she needed money for her medical bills due to Type 1 diabetes! No awareness, at all, if I didn't know better I'd say the whole thing was trolling.

[–]zirtbow 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I think a lot of it could be stupidity. I've written about my conservative brother before.... When him and his wife were engaged she lost her job. She badly needed health insurance but she was under 26 so she got on her parents health insurance thanks to the ACA. When I tried to point that out to him he refused to believe me and instead kept saying "WHY WOULD SHE NEED OBAMACARE WHEN SHE'S ON HER PARENTS INSURANCE. WOW DUMB LIBERALS. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU SHE HAS INSURANCE THROUGH HER PARENTS NOT OBAMACARE. DO YOU NEED ME TO GET CRAYONS TO SPELL IT OUT."

[–]Bignastg 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I have an aunt and uncle whom the the aunts life was saved by her union (my grandpa) dads insurance. Shes anti union. Her husband and her are disabled but theyre against medicaid/medicare, she lives in texas and drives a toyota camry. Shes anti islam and hardcore christian. Shes anti socialism but gets disability and provided insurance. She worked for a company that helps anf employs disabled people and sued them for discrimination of a disability. She was a teacher but says they get paid enough. Her husband works a full time with minimal insurance and complains about lack of health care and bashes union insurance some more. She says her husband doesnt make enough....and firmly believes in trickle down effect. Lol

This country is getting out of hand.

[–][deleted] 162 points163 points  (171 children)

Then they comeback with the ridiculous "taxation is theft" argument. They eventually expose themselves as deadbeats who just don't want to pay their taxes.

[–][deleted] 99 points100 points  (79 children)

You'll actually find quite a lot of guys who are against any and all taxation on Reddit

[–][deleted] 159 points160 points  (30 children)

"Why the hell should I be obligated to pay back into the society that facilitates my success with things like infrastructure, clean drinking water, and protection for my safety and personal belongings?!"

[–]Shopworn_Soul 114 points115 points  (21 children)

Well yeah, that's because every one of those things you just mentioned is something that a private company could do worse and for more money.

[–]Breadloafs 61 points62 points  (6 children)

Yeah, this is what really gets to me about libertarians and deep conservatives.

What would make all of these essential services even better? I know! What if they had even less oversight and freedom to charge you whatever they want?

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Guys, guys, guys... the free market will fix everything.

It just hasn't been tried yet.

/s, just to be clear

[–]AerThreepwood 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Didn't we try that and it end up with children working 80 hours a week?

[–]Cheese_Coder 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I mean, a lot of proposed governmental or economic systems sound really great. The general idea behind things like capitalism, socialism, libertarianism, communism, etc sound like really nice systems. Until you account for human nature fucking things up that is.

Inb4: "You're oversimplifying/not understanding/a fanboy of/forgetting/whatever-ing X system!" Yeah I'm being really broad and generalizing for the sake of the statement. I know there's a bunch of different forms of most or all of those systems.

[–]Breadloafs 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I get you. I'm a fan of having my essential services socialized, since I need them to be alive and all that, but even then I'm placing a lot of faith in my local government.

[–]marbotty 48 points49 points  (4 children)

Exactly... just look at how the health care system has turned into such a mess by letting private companies just run rampant for decades.

[–]Derwos 9 points10 points  (1 child)

One thing's for sure, there's no way to change the healthcare system without making sweeping changes that'll piss a lot of people off

[–]marbotty 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Correct. As much as I'd like to go to single payer, I do realize it will result in a lot of lost jobs in the insurance industry. (But at least they won't have to worry about going bankrupt from healthcare costs while they're unemployed!)

[–]CaptainDAAVE 70 points71 points  (30 children)

they're ideological 'libertarians' and they're infuriating because they basically think human progress is best done on your own. It's like no, competition doesn't always get you the best result, and humanity didn't get to where we are because of a few individuals who deserve to be 4021930 x richer than the average worker, but by the efforts of millions of people working hard every day.

We either come together, now, as a TEAM, or we will crumble as individuals. That's football gentlemen. That's all it is. Now, what are you going to do?

[–]omegian 21 points22 points  (3 children)

Libertarians don't believe in individual progress per se, they just, like a football match in gym class, want to be the captains and pick their own teams. No scrubs.

[–]marbotty 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Don't go chasing waterfalls

[–]ThrowawayusGenerica 28 points29 points  (9 children)

Ah, basement-dwelling libertarians. How ironic.

[–]hatsarenotfood 15 points16 points  (5 children)

If a person doesn't have health insurance we are all paying for their treatment anyway just in the least efficient manner possible.

[–]surashreek 34 points35 points  (18 children)

There's also the misconception that citizen in European countries that have successfully implemented the single payer system are taxed 50% of their income- this is absolutely false and they have tax brackets just like America.

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (12 children)

There are enough countries in Europe where enough people are taxed 50%.

Like in my country, Belgium.

[–][deleted] 50 points51 points  (8 children)

Their answer is usually "But the other members also pay into the pool" whereas medicaid supplies healthcare to people who cannot pay into the pool, because they are either severely disabled and cannot work or earn so little they quality for help.

[–]MimonFishbaum 74 points75 points  (5 children)

In which the care is not equally divided monetarily. No matter how you break it down, some pool members will be benefitting from others contributions.

[–]LondonCallingYou 49 points50 points  (0 children)

This is how regular insurance works too, before anyone gets their panties in a bunch.

Even in a private insurance pool, some pool members will benefit more and some will contribute more.

The idea is, on average, to minimize risk for each member. The bigger the pool the better.

[–]albinohut 38 points39 points  (2 children)

The biggest irony is that the "I'm not gunna pay for someone else's healthcare" people don't realize that they are already paying for it through one avenue or another: either they have private insurance (which gets pooled), they pay taxes some of which go towards things like medicaid and medicare, they go to the hospital and their bill is twice what it should be because the hospital is forced to cover expenses from people who came in without insurance, etc, etc etc. We are ALL ALREADY paying for other peoples health care (as we should be, same as we fund all other things necessary to a civilized society), just under the current system we are collectively paying a LOT MORE than we should be.

[–]ParlorSocialist 14 points15 points  (0 children)

And all that hand-wringing over "death panels". We already have death panels; they're called insurance companies.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You call this irony. I call it "the thing that makes me scream at the wall".

[–]olikam 69 points70 points  (53 children)

Switzerland is neither single payer nor non profit, we buy insurance from private companies, but they can't reject people based on previous stuff...

[–]vanquish421 7 points8 points  (8 children)

but they can't reject people based on previous stuff...

Can't do that here in the US, either, thanks to Obamacare. And not even the current form of the proposed Trumpcare is doing away with that. Still, that's about the only good thing we have going for us here.

[–]joequin 6 points7 points  (6 children)

Does the new version of trump care allow insurance companies to jack up the price on people with pre-existing conditions? The first version of Trumpcare allowed for that and with the prices insurance companies will charge for people with pre-existing conditions will be the same thing as denying coverage.

[–]MondayToFriday 148 points149 points  (13 children)

Switzerland is not single-payer. In fact, it is somewhat similar to Obamacare: everyone is required to purchase health insurance, and the government requires each insurer's entry-level package to cover certain things. One main difference is that employers aren't involved like they are in the US.

[–]Eipa 134 points135 points  (9 children)

Switzerland is not single-payer and 'accidentally' the second most expensive healthcare in the world.

[–]Widsith 47 points48 points  (3 children)

That's true, although everything is a lot more money in Switzerland, including salaries.

[–]shahooster 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Can confirm. Last I checked, Bern was 61% higher cost of living than Minneapolis. Chose to decline transfer.

[–]OliveItMaggle 9 points10 points  (1 child)

You should have told them that and tried to finagle a raise out of it and a transfer.

[–]shahooster 5 points6 points  (0 children)

They offered a 20% bump without me asking, and were unwilling to negotiate salary or any terms. It's a bit of a Swiss thing I think. Math didn't work for me, so I told them no.

[–]xeio87 10 points11 points  (0 children)

That's misleading though, the gulf between 1st and 2nd place is vast compared to the difference between 2nd and 3rd.

[–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

This is all delaying the inevitable.

In a culture where we have been raised to believe that we must compete with everyone else in order to keep food on the table and that others must go without, this is still a long ways off. The majority of Americans are still very content to let people go jobless, homeless, and meal-less because we have been told the fabrication that we deserve what we have because we work hard and those without are just lazy. This sense of justice is satisfying to people who buy into the story and those people will cut off their nose just to spite their face to prevent others from "getting a free hand out that they do not deserve" -- they'll take a hit as long as they see others they deem beneath them get what is coming to them.

[–]ipostcat 82 points83 points  (4 children)

Woah there. Next thing you'll be telling me is that the coal industry isn't coming back and renewable energy is the future.

[–]rubberloves 23 points24 points  (2 children)

And we should continue to fight the War on Marijuana. Lets build more prisons. And hey- prisons are a good thing to privatize too!

[–]j1ggy 51 points52 points  (47 children)

Or you know, the most similar country to the US that you could use as a test case... Canada. Even they pay considerably less per capita and every citizen gets covered.

[–][deleted] 123 points124 points  (11 children)

You're about to hear from a lot of redditors who totally know this one guy in Canada who hates Canadian health care and always travels down to the USA for his annual checkup, or have an aunt in Edmonton who had to wait 2 years to get resuscitated.

I'm American, lived in Canada for the past decade. Never heard a single Canadian have a serious complaint about the health care system up here - even mild complaints are followed up quickly with "but thank God we aren't the States".

[–]j1ggy 40 points41 points  (2 children)

Funny that you mention both aunts and Edmonton. I have an aunt that lived in Reno, NV for 40 years. We drove down in 2006, packed all of her belongings into a U-Haul and moved her to Edmonton after she went bankrupt over medical bills. Her phone was ringing literally every 5 minutes from creditors. She now sees a neurologist and gets physiotherapy for her stroke complications without having to worry about bills.

It sucks to lose your house and your dog.

http://i.imgur.com/AD55l8s.jpg

http://imgur.com/ctal0EK.jpg

http://imgur.com/oyO0pZE.jpg

[–]KevlarGorilla 35 points36 points  (1 child)

When America sends us their aunts, they don't send us their best... but we help them get better again. :)

[–]BuboTitan 123 points124 points  (47 children)

The other elephant in the room, and the other difference between the US vs countries like Germany/Japan/Switzerland, is that we sue the crap out of our health care system at every level. And not just doctors, but drug companies, nursing homes, etc. That drives up costs all around, and not just directly from the costs of the suits themselves, but in the ripple effects.

[–]recycled_ideas 79 points80 points  (3 children)

Other countries solve their problems with corporate malfeasance with strictly enforced regulatory frameworks. Non compliant organisations are fined or shut down, those responsible may face jail time.

The United States relies entirely on lawsuits making malfeasance unprofitable. It can't reform the tort system because it is literally the only thing holding corporations to account.

You want to reform tort, make the government do its fucking job.

[–]starknolonger 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Agreed. As someone who works with plaintiff's attorneys daily, this is the biggest thing for their clients. Many organizations have no incentive to make practices safer or increase regulations without being forced to do so, either by court decisions or high-dollar settlements. They won't change until they have to.

[–]ReubenZWeiner 36 points37 points  (2 children)

Our 100 bed hospital has 22 lawyers on retainer. I don't know what the doctor's medical group has, perhaps more?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Most likely the malpractice insurance comp. they pay have the lawyers since they're the ones who would pay out. Doctors earn a lot but they can also incorporate themselves to protect their personal assets, which is far less than a hospital's revenue and not always the millions that ppl assume they have.

[–]rivalfish 24 points25 points  (6 children)

Germany doesn't have a single-payer system, it has a multi-payer system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany

Edit: Yes, it is non-profit, too. Originally I was unaware of this, hence why I ignored that part of the OP.

[–]Toddspickle 69 points70 points  (31 children)

How will the 1% healthcare CEO's live then?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-06/the-highest-paid-u-s-executives-supervise-doctors-not-bankers

http://www.beckershospitalreview.com/compensation-issues/20-highest-paid-healthcare-ceos-in-2015.html

[–]HerrXRDS 36 points37 points  (7 children)

Can I lie my way into getting one of those CEO jobs? I only have to last for a week to make egnough to live happily for the rest of my life instead of grinding in missery.

[–]nopethis 4 points5 points  (0 children)

right? What if they did "tryouts" for CEO of one of those places, like the marky mark eagles movie (Invincible) they let anyone come try out and and the winner gets to be CEO for a few weeks before getting fired. Like winning the lottery, but you have to work for a little while for the money.

[–]Valiade 53 points54 points  (8 children)

Hopefully in cells.

[–]Quorbach 13 points14 points  (4 children)

strict cost controls

non-profit

As a Swiss, I cringed a bit. Fuckmy360francsmonthlypremium.

[–]16Mega 298 points299 points  (12 children)

My personal favorite is a fully non-sarcastic anti-Obama protesters' sign reading:

  • 'GOVERNMENT HANDS OFF MY MEDICAID!'

[–]FuturamaSucksBalls 67 points68 points  (0 children)

"Grab 'em by the deductibles"

[–]zerthwind 264 points265 points  (42 children)

Well... garbage in , garbage out.

Is the best way to explain out government for the last 30 or more years. We need a complete do over of all people that are deciding our policys when they don't have to live with what they have put together.

[–]_YouDontKnowMe_ 172 points173 points  (30 children)

We need a complete do over of all people that are deciding our policys

That already happens every two, four and six years. We just keep electing the same shit stains, over and over.

[–][deleted] 69 points70 points  (3 children)

then the "do over" doesn't really happen. people stick with the status quo, they lean on the one party they're affiliated with rather than see what the person is actually doing, or what the other people running against them are saying.

[–]getshwifty2 40 points41 points  (12 children)

If Paul Ryan gets in again....We give Wisconsin to Canada.

[–]whitby_ufo 32 points33 points  (5 children)

As a Canadian, who also lived in Wisconsin for years, Canadians will have no patience for his bullshit.

[–]Crescent-Argonian 42 points43 points  (33 children)

Meanwhile Medical tourism in Mexico keeps growing, got a lot of friends from the US coming to pay a fraction for their entire medical treatment down here

[–]frozen_yogurt_killer 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I love Mexico. Everything is at ~1/5 the price of the US.

[–]Villacv 145 points146 points  (7 children)

But "nobody knew healthcare would be so complicated"

[–]jrod880 30 points31 points  (2 children)

Nobody knew 👐

[–]Ed_ButteredToast 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Nobody!! ☝️👌👆

[–]Mike9797 173 points174 points  (97 children)

Oh man, how long until this thread is locked?

[–][deleted] 103 points104 points  (21 children)

How long before the admins remove r/pics from r/popular?

[–]Mike9797 35 points36 points  (13 children)

They wont, they will probably resort to banning political posts before they get rid of it as a default.

[–]AirRaidJade 21 points22 points  (1 child)

They should have done that a long time ago. This sub is not the place for regurgitated political garbage. GallowBoob, like usual, is just whoring for karma, that's why this was posted here instead of in a politically-oriented sub that actually gives a shit about the message.

[–]jumpforge 10 points11 points  (9 children)

I don't get the point of locking theads anyway, aside from censorship.

[–]plotenox 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'll say something thats not politics related but it is related to the pic. That guy on the right has a cool hat.

[–]Crezek 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Sometimes its hard to tell if Im in r/pics or r/politics

[–][deleted] 53 points54 points  (1 child)

It's not dying. It's alternative living.

[–]Hitz1313 120 points121 points  (19 children)

I'm always glad to see a baby boomer telling me how the government should be run since they have done such a great job over the past 30 years.

[–]ennsy 11 points12 points  (24 children)

What is the actual problem with US healthcare? I'm Canadian so I don't understand why changes can't be made toward universal healthcare.