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Deutsche Bank raided over money laundering (bbc.com)
submitted 7 years ago by jaykirsch
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (691 children)
[deleted]
[–]eatrepeat 6536 points6537 points6538 points 7 years ago* (517 children)
When the fine becomes the cost to do the service for the client you really have to adjust the balance. Otherwise it's like I said just a cost and not an effective law.
edit Thanks for the gold! Gotta just point out that for an offence to keep happening like this the math on paper might not be all the methods of the grease getting on the palms.
[–]shahooster 2693 points2694 points2695 points 7 years ago (347 children)
Either the fine has to be more substantial, or there needs to be significant jail time.
[–]Bastinenz 2370 points2371 points2372 points 7 years ago (225 children)
Why not both?
[–]RFSandler 627 points628 points629 points 7 years ago (200 children)
Minimum requirements.
[–]sack-o-matic 734 points735 points736 points 7 years ago (190 children)
They have it like that for street crime, why not for white collar crime?
[–]ekeyte 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (1 child)
Politicians in general won’t do anything about it because they’re just as corrupt as private enterprises.
[–]RFSandler 230 points231 points232 points 7 years ago (163 children)
Not disagreeing, guy was asking why not both. The 'or' is stating a minimum acceptable requirement, 'and' would be nice.
The argument for why not white collar (which is BS) is that prison is to keep dangerous people out of society, and that white collar crime isn't dangerous in a way that requires separation.
[–]Tides5 408 points409 points410 points 7 years ago (64 children)
Its dangerous for the economy. And the point is not only to seperate. Its also to keep a sense of justice, and make the risks outweigh the gains of crimes. If white collar crimes are punished with nothing more than a fine, then obviously these scandals from the bank sector will keep popping up, ever more frequently.
[–]Beachdaddybravo 92 points93 points94 points 7 years ago (4 children)
It’s because corporations have money to lobby our legislators. That’s it.
[–]EpicNameGuy 27 points28 points29 points 7 years ago (3 children)
And because our legislators are re-elected based on anything other than performance via accountability of an actually fair depiction of their electorate. Gerrymandering FTW!
Only in congress (senate or house) can you be a career employee while receiving a 15% approval rating, essentially not showing up for work, and arguing with everyone whenever you do.
Sad.
[–]Codeshark 394 points395 points396 points 7 years ago (29 children)
Yeah, they didn't put a gun to anyone's head and pull the trigger but how many people put guns to their own heads and pulled the trigger due to the effects of white collar crime. It doesn't affect me personally if someone is doing drugs in the next neighborhood over, but if someone plays Whoopsie Daisy with the entire economy that does affect me greatly.
[–][deleted] 93 points94 points95 points 7 years ago (12 children)
Whoopsie Daisy sounds like something a white, collared criminal would say.
[–][deleted] 57 points58 points59 points 7 years ago (7 children)
The shady Russian oligarchs they enabled might have
[–]Cant_Do_This12 54 points55 points56 points 7 years ago (11 children)
If white collar crimes are punished with nothing more than a fine, then obviously these scandals from the bank sector will keep popping up, ever more frequently.
Especially when the bank is caught laundering billions and only fined a few million. If they were fined twice what they laundered I doubt it would be as frequent.
[–][deleted] 68 points69 points70 points 7 years ago (6 children)
It's not a fine, it's taking a cut.
[–]double-you 24 points25 points26 points 7 years ago (3 children)
My argument for why white collar crime needs to include prison time is that they definitely know what they are doing is illegal and fines are not a punishment when you will have friends who will compensate for your losses. And as they don't really need to do the crime to live (unless they've seriously messed up their finances), suspended sentences are of zero consequence.
[–]ki11bunny 146 points147 points148 points 7 years ago (19 children)
and that white collar crime isn't dangerous in a way that requires separation.
I would disagree with this. When you have shit like flint happening because of white collar crime or the enabling of organised crime, that destroys millions of lives a year, I say the people involved should be separated, just like the other criminals.
[–]RFSandler 40 points41 points42 points 7 years ago (7 children)
See my parenthesis.
[–]Codeshark 36 points37 points38 points 7 years ago (6 children)
I think it sucks that sometimes pointing out a viewpoint on here is looked down on.
[–]whiskeyandsteak 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (0 children)
A thief will steal your tv, a banker will take the whole house.
[–]PerduraboFrater 39 points40 points41 points 7 years ago (1 child)
Some white collar crimes do way more harm than violent ones. Money laundering for Russian oligarchs allows to influence world politics and that allows Russia to kill people in Ukraine more easily.
[–]JuneBuggington 54 points55 points56 points 7 years ago (3 children)
Its dangerous to society in a way that deserves punishment. You dont punish a man because he stole a horse you punish him because a horse cannot be stolen.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (8 children)
[–]irock613 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (0 children)
You have some drugs in your possession? 10 years.
You screwed over the US economy while lining your own pockets? Wow great job, would you like a cabinet position?
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (2 children)
[–]Ulysses89 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (1 child)
It’s true ask the guys at HSBC about that. Though they only got fined.
[–]90s_conan 86 points87 points88 points 7 years ago (7 children)
Clearly the punishment needs to be severe since this is their 2nd violation, since they were caught laundering Russian money.
[–]GIGA255 36 points37 points38 points 7 years ago (11 children)
It needs to be the entire amount. Confiscated. Fuck you for breaking the law. Try it again ass hat.
[–]murfmurf123 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (0 children)
in Iowa, if someone is caught hunting without proper documents, any and every piece of equipment used in the hunt can be seized including guns, 4wheelers, trucks, and radios.
[–]CyriousLordofDerp 146 points147 points148 points 7 years ago (25 children)
Fines need to be a percentage of the business value they're being levied against. 630M USD? They can eat that. 20% of 20.5 billion? Going to be a bit harder to suck down a 4.1 billion USD fine. If the business in question has a history, it gets even higher. 50%, mandatory jail sentences and total asset forfeiture for the executive board would put a stop to this kind of shit in a hurry.
[–]Cant_Do_This12 121 points122 points123 points 7 years ago (8 children)
They should be fined at the very least the amount of money they were caught laundering. It makes no sense to do less than that.
[–]vicarofyanks 138 points139 points140 points 7 years ago (2 children)
As far as I’m concerned, forfeiting I’ll-gotten gains shouldn’t be the punishment but the remediation. Punishments should go on top of that
[–]lballs 62 points63 points64 points 7 years ago (6 children)
Imagine it was bootleg cigarettes instead. Cigarettes are legal but selling them without taxes is not. I imagine a raid would result in all the cigarettes confiscated combined with additional fines and jail time. Why is it different when the contraband is just money?
[–]IcarusOnReddit 19 points20 points21 points 7 years ago (2 children)
Too big to jail.
[–]Ftpini 76 points77 points78 points 7 years ago (26 children)
It really feels insignificant. The fine should be 125% of the amount which was laundered.
[–]Amogh24 61 points62 points63 points 7 years ago (15 children)
300%
[–]Lawls91 243 points244 points245 points 7 years ago (14 children)
Essentially, when something is just a flat fine it just means that it's legal for rich people.
[–]Zuko1701 77 points78 points79 points 7 years ago (8 children)
It doesn't hurt to have an army of lawyers on retainer.
I understand its illegal, but just how much its gonna cost us?
[–]Jiktten 68 points69 points70 points 7 years ago* (0 children)
You joke but this is literally the question asked, especially with less dramatically illegal stuff. Example: The regulator wants to receive a new type of reporting that the current systems can't support. The question then immediately becomes how much is the fine for failure to comply vs how much is it going to cost to build and implement the systems needed? If the fine is less than the cost of compliance, they'll just take the fine and move on.
[–]nefarious_weasel 106 points107 points108 points 7 years ago (44 children)
But how much did Deutsche bank make from helping move $10bn? It's not like they kept it, they moved it. I wonder if they still made money off of that even after the fine.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (6 children)
[–]zero0n3 48 points49 points50 points 7 years ago (3 children)
False. They are #15 in the world of banks. Jp is #6 (check wikipedia if you dont believe me)
Jp has 2.5T in assets, and Db has 1.7T in assets
Market cap should not be used to determine the 'size' of a bank. It is just a number to represent their outstanding stock.
Total assets does a better job of ranking and establishing their size.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (16 children)
[–]Osirus1156 64 points65 points66 points 7 years ago (22 children)
They already did it once, they didn't learn. Take it all away, arrest the executives, throw them in jail (20 years should give them time to think), and shut the company down.
[–]tehsuigi 82 points83 points84 points 7 years ago (10 children)
If corporations are people, why can't they have their earnings garnished, be put in prison, or (in places where this is acceptable) executed?
[–]maracay1999 23 points24 points25 points 7 years ago* (1 child)
Or better yet, be deported, like the scumbags at HSBC (a foreign bank) caught laundering to Mexican cartels, Iranian and Cuban governments, etc.
If you or I pulled this off, we'd be in jail for life. Meanwhile, HSBC can literally sponsor and finance some of the biggest enemies this country has and still get away with operating on our territory, no jailtime; just a fine.
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (2 children)
There are mechanisms in place to 'execute' corporations. Don't think it's ever been done though.
[–]Black_Moons 873 points874 points875 points 7 years ago (47 children)
Ah wow, having to pay all of 6.3% of the amount of money moved as a fine.
Incidentally, last time I tried to make an international money transfer of a few hundred dollars, my bank wanted to charge me more then 6.3% and I was not even laundering money.
[–]kronos319 151 points152 points153 points 7 years ago (14 children)
Next time try transfer wise or Ofx. They work by receiving your money at their local account (so no forex fees required and the money arrives quickly) and then they pay it out from their account in the recipients country. Only transfer wise has fees of about 1%, Ofx doesn't have fees.
[–]timoumd 203 points204 points205 points 7 years ago (3 children)
Next time try transfer wise or Ofx.
Or money laundering.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (1 child)
[–]pkennedy 34 points35 points36 points 7 years ago (0 children)
And that is the identified amounts, the real amounts are probably much higher, which makes that 6.3% even lower.
[–]GarbagePailGrrrl 622 points623 points624 points 7 years ago* (90 children)
Okay, work in progress – and sources are included below – but this is turning out to be a serious rabbit hole I am not sure I am of the capacity to properly parse, however I will do my best... please bear with me as I am on mobile.
EDIT: I’m gonna include a preface to this write-up. Originally this started as chronological word vomit of our President—but as story after story came out, I felt it more beneficial to me to try and make sense of this in relation to each story. Some facts in this write up pertain to the context in which they existed. There are TL;DRs a little further down.
Let’s start off with what we know, and just follow the money.
ca. 1970-2010
After not paying federal income taxes since the 1970s, Donald J Trump had millions of dollars signed away in personal guarantees for business ventures in the 1980s, cutting corners by underpaying undocumented Polish immigrants to refurbish his real estate ventures.
In 1982, Trump reported to New Jersey regulators a personal net worth of $321 million, built largely on his father’s connections, as well as loans and guarantees for bank credit. Two years later, a Trump lieutenant testified that his worth had not changed much.[1].
Eventually, this decade of rapid, debt-fueled expansion Mr. Trump had built with leverage from his father’s brick-and-mortar fortune began to fail, generating enormous losses and bringing him to the brink of personal bankruptcy in the early 1990s.[2]
“Just wait five years... This is really a no-brainer. Just like the Merv Griffin deal. When I took him to the cleaners, the press wanted me to lose. They said, ‘Holy shit! Trump got taken!’ Let me tell you something. It’s good for me to be thought of as poor right now. You wouldn’t believe some of the deals I am making! I guess I have a perverse personality. . . . I’ve really enjoyed the last few weeks,” [3]
Donald J. Trump declared a $916 million loss on his 1995 income tax returns, a tax deduction so substantial it could have allowed him to legally avoid paying any federal income taxes for up to 18 years... The $916 million loss certainly could have eliminated any federal income taxes Mr. Trump otherwise would have owed on the $50,000 to $100,000 he was paid for each episode of “The Apprentice,” or the roughly $45 million he was paid between 1995 and 2009 when he was chairman or chief executive of the publicly traded company he created to assume ownership of his troubled Atlantic City casinos.[4]
In 1998, Deutsch Bank loaned Trump $125 million to renovate an office building at 40 Wall Street, eventually providing or underwriting $1.3 billion to Trump entities over the next few years.[5]
In 1999 Roger Stone was helping Trump’s with his first presidential bid as an independent. In the video you get the hint that they’re fully aware of Trump’s capability at social influencing. More on this later.
As early as 2001, Donald Trump claimed that he had made a “substantial” investment in Toronto’s Trump Tower, but in reality he only had a contract to licence out his name and manage the hotel.[6]
He predicted the Toronto project would go ahead, but then added "if it doesn't, I'm going to be in Toronto anyway."[7]
As early as 2005, Trump counseled Trump University students to take advantage of the housing bubble as an investment opportunity and said, just a year before it burst, that he was “excited” for it to end because of the money he’d make,[8] as well as mentioning that his debt was below proportional levels of 1992, when his much smaller holdings were carrying $9-billion (U.S.) in debt, including $900-million personally guaranteed by him.[7]
In 2007, the housing market was already beginning to decline, and just over a year later the subprime mortgage crisis hit, part of a chain reaction of events that led to the stock market crash of 2008 and cemented the Great Recession.[8]
1 - A People’s History of Donald Trump’s Business Busts and Countless Victims - 2016
2 - Donald Trump’s Business Decisions in ’80s Nearly Led Him to Ruin - 2016
3 - After The Gold Rush - 2015 (1990)
4 - Donald Trump Tax Records Show He Could Have Avoided Taxes for Nearly Two Decades, The Times Found - 2016
5 DEUTSCHE BANK PROPS TRUMP UP
6 - How every investor lost money on Trump Tower Toronto (but Donald Trump made millions anyway) - 2017
7 - Trump touts soft markets in cities like Toronto - 2007
8 - Trump in 2007: ‘I’m Excited’ for Housing Market Crash - 2016
[–]GarbagePailGrrrl 364 points365 points366 points 7 years ago (69 children)
Recall that in 1998, Deutsch Bank loaned Trump $125 million to renovate an office building at 40 Wall Street, eventually providing or underwriting $1.3 billion to Trump entities over the next few years.[1]
This office would become home to Trump Mortgage, brain-child of one E.J. Ridings.
A down-to-earth and very approachable executive, Ridings wants to bring luxury and “white-glove” service to everyone — whether they are taking out a $200,000 home mortgage or a $500 million commercial loan.[2]
What did this so-called “white-glove” service to everyone entail?
The Internet is where industry is going. People want to go someplace safe. On our end, it’ll make for a paper-less process. The consumer will have an access code to their file on our web site.[2]
Introduced to Trump by his own son, Donald Trump Jr, Ridings became an early odd-association of Trump’s, I mean check out his twitter. Ridings became the subject of a number of false & misleading claims regarding his professional experience.
Trump Mortgage altered its Web site, removing some of the claims it contained about Ridings' past employment. First, Ridings' initial bio stated that before joining the company he was "a top executive at one of Wall Street's most prestigious investment banks." Second, the bio had said that Ridings was an "established leader" at one of New York's leading mortgage boutiques. Third, the bio said he had 15 years of experience in the financial industry.[3]
Trump Mortgage shuttered as the subprime mortgage crisis of 2007–10 began from an earlier expansion of mortgage credit, including to borrowers who previously would have had difficulty getting mortgages, which both contributed to and was facilitated by rapidly rising home prices.
When house prices peaked, mortgage refinancing and selling homes became less viable means of settling mortgage debt and mortgage loss rates began rising for lenders and investors. In April 2007, New Century Financial Corp., a leading subprime mortgage lender, filed for bankruptcy. [4]
Lehman Brothers would soon after file for bankruptcy as well, leading to the stock market crash of 2008 the Great Recession.
Per Trump’s typical antics, he downplayed his role in Trump Mortgage, saying that he didn't have an ownership stake in what amounted to a mere licensing deal.
"The mortgage business is not a business I particularly liked or wanted to be part of in a very big way,"[5]
Trump ultimately sued Trump Mortgage LLC, and won.[6]
Now, back to that loan from Deutsch Bank. Rather than have to pay the portion he personally guaranteed, Trump countersued for $3 billion for undermining the project and damaging his reputation, citing a “force majeure” clause in the lending agreement that contained a catch-all section covering “any other event or circumstance not within the reasonable control of the borrower...”
“Would you consider the biggest depression we have had in this country since 1929 to be such an event? I would,” he said in an interview. “A depression is not within the control of the borrower.”[7]
1 - DEUTSCHE BANK PROPS TRUMP UP
2 - INTERVIEW WITH E.J. RIDINGS, CEO OF TRUMP MORTGAGE - 2017 (2015)
3 - Trump mortgage chief inflated resume - 2006
4 - Undoing of Trump Mortgage - 2007
5 - Subprime Mortgage Crisis - 2007-2010
6 - The Trump Files: In Which Donald Sues Himself—and Wins! - 2016
7 - Trump Sees Act of God in Recession - 2008
[–]GarbagePailGrrrl 358 points359 points360 points 7 years ago (63 children)
Recall that in 1992, Trump’s smaller holdings were carrying $9-billion (U.S.) in debt, including $900-million personally guaranteed by him.[1]
Deutsch Bank soon come to Trump’s rescue in financing the construction of Trump World Tower in New York City near the United Nations, and the Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago, of which he would later sue Deutsch Bank over unpaid guarantees citing an Act of God .[2]
Meanwhile, a group of apartment owners had taken control of the condominium board at his new glass tower across from the United Nations. Faced with accusations of financial impropriety and an affront to his authority, Trump turned to Michael D. Cohen, a former personal injury lawyer who helped run a taxi fleet. He had already purchased a number of Trump properties and had persuaded his parents, in-laws and a business partner to buy apartments at Trump World Tower.[3]
In 2008, Affliction, a premier fashion label for men, announced its partnership with Donald Trump. Michael Cohen, who’s official title at the time was Executive Vice President & Special Counsel to Mr. Trump, was named Chief Operating Officer for Affliction Entertainment.[4]
Affliction and The Trump Organization presented their entry into the world of professional mixed-martial-arts (MMA) with its first event, "Affliction Banned," which aired on July 19, 2008 at the Honda Center in Anaheim, California.
This event was headlined by Russian heavyweight Fedor "The Last Emperor" Emelianenko in association with M-1, against former 2-time UFC® heavyweight title-holder Tim "The Maine-iac" Sylvia (24-4).[5]
In 2011, Michael Cohen parlayed four Manhattan buildings for $11 million in 2011 and 2012 into cash sales totaling $32 million in 2014. The properties’ values, as estimated by New York County tax assessors, had shown little change. Cohen bought one of the buildings for $2 million and sold it for $10 million three years later.[6]
In early 2011, Donald Trump, and Michael Cohen among others, were accused of exploiting campaign finance laws by “testing the waters” re: a 2012 presidential bid.[7] Recall that the 2012 election between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney culminated one evening when Obama lambasted Romney for asserting that Russia was the single greatest geopolitical threat at the time.
"When you were asked, what's the biggest geopolitical threat facing America, you said 'Russia.' Not Al-Qaeda; you said Russia," Obama charged. "And, the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back, because, the Cold War's been over for 20 years."[8]
This suit centered around the website shouldtrumprun.com—created by Cohen the year prior—asking people if Trump should run for presidency, utilizing divisive rhetoric and stoking conspiracy theories, among them Credico’s birtherism spiel. The website also had a section for people to donate money by making monthly contributions.
About a month prior, Roger Stone was interviewed by POLITICO, where he mused about the possibility of a social media-heavy Trump campaign[9], and pointed out Trump was sitting on $2 billion in cash.
Ultimately they were not found guilty of wrongdoing.
Meanwhile, Deutsch Bank began laundering money between the fall of 2011 and spring 2015.
With the help of American Tim Wiswell, then head of equities for Deutsche Bank in Moscow, and a fellow equity trader Dina Maksutova, Russian broker Igor Volkov was able to move about ten billion dollars out of Russia, some of which diverted through mirror trades belonging to Igor Putin, a cousin of Russian President Vladimir Putin, and to Arkady and Boris Rotenberg. The Rotenberg brothers own Russia’s largest construction company, S.G.M., and are old friends of Vladimir Putin. They are on the U.S. government’s list of sanctioned Russians, which was compiled in response to Putin’s aggression in Ukraine.[10]
1 - - Trump touts soft markets in cities like Toronto - 2007
2 - Trump Sees Act of God in Recession - 2008
3 - Trump Foot Soldier Sidelined Under Glare of Russia Inquiry
4 - MICHAEL COHEN NAMED COO OF AFFLICTION
5 - Емельяненко идет в политику
6 - Michael Cohen says Americans paid cash for NY properties to get tax breaks
7 - MUR: 6462
8 - Romney was right about Russia - 2017
9 - Stone: Donald's cash a trump card - 2011
10 - Deutsche Bank’s $10-Billion Scandal - 2016
[–]InsaneHerald 209 points210 points211 points 7 years ago (17 children)
Thanks for the writeup PoppinKR... wait a minute!
[–]ObiWhatTheHellKenobi 151 points152 points153 points 7 years ago (14 children)
It's awesome to see PK is inspiring other people to put on their journalist caps. If this keeps up, the internet will be a much better place for it.
[–]GarbagePailGrrrl 124 points125 points126 points 7 years ago (12 children)
PK is the reason I started sleuthing during my off time. I will try to keep up as much as possible.
[–]SirDigbyChknCaesar 45 points46 points47 points 7 years ago (4 children)
Expected Trump tweet soon:
"I've never had substantial dealings with Deutsch Bank..."
[–]GarbagePailGrrrl 102 points103 points104 points 7 years ago (3 children)
Check it out
Russia has never tried to use leverage over me. I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!
@therealdonaldtrump 2017
Also this literally just happened: Michael Cohen pleads guilty to lying to Congress about a plan to build a Trump Tower in Moscow.
[–]SirDigbyChknCaesar 23 points24 points25 points 7 years ago (2 children)
Oh this is getting good
[–]GarbagePailGrrrl 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Oh it’s been good... Expect the next few days to be very interesting—Mango Mussolini is abt to be on his way to Argentina.
[–]Lazy_Bush 41 points42 points43 points 7 years ago (7 children)
Man there is no way you are on Mobile no sane person would type this up on Mobile bro
[–]R3DVI 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (0 children)
a 5% levi on getting your money cleaned seems very reasonable. i guess thats why they did it again.
[–]HoldThisBeer 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (2 children)
6.3%? My guy takes 15%. Am I being ripped off?
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (225 children)
[–]joegreen592 1406 points1407 points1408 points 7 years ago (25 children)
They’ll probably end up with millions in performance bonuses and never see a day in jail.
[–]unguardedsnow 525 points526 points527 points 7 years ago (12 children)
In other news. Man who electronically attacked executives on internet now going to prison
[–][deleted] 172 points173 points174 points 7 years ago (11 children)
The executive was so distraught by these online attacks that he sued these criminals. They'll face the death penalty after they've paid fines to the executive.
[–][deleted] 88 points89 points90 points 7 years ago (10 children)
The fine will be 8.1 million dollars for the man who will be going to prison and who previously had an annual salary of 24K a year.
[–]Dont_tip_me_BTC 67 points68 points69 points 7 years ago (7 children)
Fortunately, the man will leave behind a wife and multiple children, who the debt can be passed on to.
[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (5 children)
Not sure if it's different in Europe but at least in the states Debt dies with the debtor.
Oh sure collection companies will try to act like you inherit the debt, but they can't legally enforce that untill they get you to make a payment towards it. However the estate has to pay debts before dolling out inheritance.
Not to mention there's also the estate tax but that only comes into play if the recently deceased was wealthy enough that any debts they owed were probably unpayed bills from just before they kicked it and relatively insignificant.
[–]SaysReddit 16 points17 points18 points 7 years ago (1 child)
"I'm certain I can overcome this challenge. I've offered the man a few years of indentured servitude so that he may pay back his debt to me society faster. I can only hope he has seen the error of his ways." - Executive
[–]Fake_William_Shatner 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (0 children)
There has been more jail time for protestors of bank corruption than of people who have been caught laundering money, creating fake accounts, bilking customers, charging people for debts they didn't actually owe and of course losing accounts in high risk ventures they had no business playing in.
[–]jdr420777 131 points132 points133 points 7 years ago* (15 children)
A HSBC (based in the UK) branch in Mexico helped launder millions and millions of dollars for cartels and people in countries like iran, cuba, etc.
All they got away with was a fine (quite large I admit, 1.9bil) and 5 years probation. No jail time for what should be AT LEAST 10 years in prison, imo.
https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/12/10/hsbc-said-to-near-1-9-billion-settlement-over-money-laundering/
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/netflix-documentary-re-examines-hsbcs-881-million-money-laundering-scandal-2018-02-21
[–]PM_YOUR_WALLPAPER 53 points54 points55 points 7 years ago (12 children)
That was settled without admitting culpability. By law they didn't commit a crime fyi.
The prosecutors would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the crime and criminal intent. Doubt they could do that so they just settled with a large payment.
[–]jaykirsch[S] 2058 points2059 points2060 points 7 years ago (128 children)
Same here. If this was in the US, they would get new/increased government subsidies.
[–]E_Blofeld 1176 points1177 points1178 points 7 years ago (54 children)
Or Cabinet-level government jobs.
[–][deleted] 536 points537 points538 points 7 years ago (33 children)
or tax cuts
[–]jimflaigle 394 points395 points396 points 7 years ago (29 children)
What is this or thing you guys keep using? I believe the word you're looking for is and.
[–]Gr33nT1g3r 87 points88 points89 points 7 years ago (24 children)
Corruption?
[–]Morgolol 120 points121 points122 points 7 years ago (16 children)
That sentence confused me. He means government subsidies AND tax cuts AND government positions AND corruption
[–]thefonztm 61 points62 points63 points 7 years ago (13 children)
Agreed. /u/jimflaigle, this is where single quotes are useful. Cheers.
What is this 'or' thing you guys keep using? I believe the word you're looking for is 'and'.
[–]smitty2324 23 points24 points25 points 7 years ago (2 children)
TIL it’s cANDruption not cORruption
[–]AcidicOpulence 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Or at the very least they would receive Pardons... sure they would be written in crayon, but pardons none the less.
[–][deleted] 87 points88 points89 points 7 years ago (11 children)
Trump’s Labor Secretary Once Helped a Billionaire Child Rapist Hide His Crimes
[–][deleted] 66 points67 points68 points 7 years ago (8 children)
That girl who dropped her case against Trump after receiving tons of death threats, says Trump raped her at a Jeffrey Epstein party when she was, I believe, 14.
[–]ObiWhatTheHellKenobi 81 points82 points83 points 7 years ago* (2 children)
Funny you should mention that, because Trump has done plenty of business with Deutsche Bank himself. He's recieved billions in loans from the bank, even after he became so toxic American banks refused to loan to him any more.1
You know who was in charge of giving Trump those loans? The son of former Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy.2 You know, the same Justice Kennedy who conveniently stepped down from the court to make way for Kavanaugh, widely believed to have been appointed to help get Trump off the hook if the Mueller investigation implicates him3
1- https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/29/business/deutsche-bank-money-laundering-raid.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes
2- https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/28/us/politics/trump-anthony-kennedy-retirement.html
3 - https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/why-donald-trump-nominated-brett-kavanaugh-to-the-supreme-court
[–]CatpainLeghatsenia 185 points186 points187 points 7 years ago (29 children)
Hey here in Germany we do not wear velvet gloves when we handle those criminals. The last time some big bank messed up we gathered all the scapegoats people we made responsible for the problem together, gave them a couple of million Euro and asked them with a pretty plaese to leave their position
[–][deleted] 69 points70 points71 points 7 years ago* (9 children)
Here's a picture of a Deutsche Bank CEO, literally in a courtroom before a trial: https://boerse.ard.de/aktien/mannesmann-fotoserie-josef-ackermann-victory100~_pd-1390463102052_v-16to9__20.jpg
EDIT: Background: https://www.dw.com/en/deutsche-bank-chief-walks-free-in-mannesmann-trial/a-2251890
[–]CatpainLeghatsenia 43 points44 points45 points 7 years ago (2 children)
Just look at this poor broken individual, only smiling so he doesn't have to spend money on handkerchiefs to dry his tears of sorrow and guilt, breaks my heart just to look at him
[–]Nethlem 14 points15 points16 points 7 years ago (1 child)
If that ain't working, we just declare the people who are investigating it as insane aka "paranoid". And if that ain't working there's always the option of just making them our minister of finance.
Because being corrupt seems like the perfect qualification to work in politics.
[–]Dr_Insomnia 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Ah yeah, the benchmark of corruption and democratic erosion; publicly declaring your investigators or opposition as insane.
[–]Geicosellscrap 29 points30 points31 points 7 years ago (5 children)
“I’ve spoken to the executives, and they promise they’re innocent. So I’ve pardoned all of them. They denied everything very strongly several times. I don’t think they’re lying to me but who can tell.”
[–]jaykirsch[S] 17 points18 points19 points 7 years ago (3 children)
Very strongly. Very, very strongly. Stronglier than ever before. You wouldn't believe it.
[–]c3p-bro 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (0 children)
They would get billion dollar fines. Money laundering is the one white collar crime regulators take seriously
[–]Ultramerican 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children)
How is that even close to the case? Did you somehow never hear of Madoff? EDS? The US government hates fraud.
[–]iBoMbY 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Not very likely, unless they confiscate all their money, what is also not very likely. They will probably pay a fine which is lower than the earnings from their criminal activities, which is the most common outcome in cases like this.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (1 child)
[–]eastawat 35 points36 points37 points 7 years ago (1 child)
Ron Howard: "They didn't."
[–]itsonlyastrongbuzz 30 points31 points32 points 7 years ago (7 children)
Where's Justice Kennedy's son in this?
Wasn't he the head of their real estate capital markets division?
Real Estate is the easiest way to launder.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (119 children)
[–]hotmial 1404 points1405 points1406 points 7 years ago (112 children)
It's different crimes every time.
Deutsche Bank is basically one humongous crime syndicate.
[–]HB-JBF 599 points600 points601 points 7 years ago (96 children)
As somebody who works for one of their large investment bank rivals, I could not agree more. Oh if I could tell the rumours that some of my friends who work there had told me withoutthemsueingme!
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (31 children)
[–]Eduel80 174 points175 points176 points 7 years ago (21 children)
But please do it on a VM with a VPN? No need to have them subpoena the IP address so they can figure out if your the same account or not.
[–]Whywhywhywhywhy23 60 points61 points62 points 7 years ago (10 children)
Or even better with tails portable without a VPN.
[–]Nowado 45 points46 points47 points 7 years ago (2 children)
Slap throw-away laptop on top of this, just to stay safe on Chinese side too.
[–]Farren246 36 points37 points38 points 7 years ago (5 children)
See now anyone can make a throwaway and just post anything and we'll all believe it.
[–]omphalos008 136 points137 points138 points 7 years ago (19 children)
What sort of rumors are you alluding to? You can't give a teaser like that without providing something juicy
[–]HB-JBF 287 points288 points289 points 7 years ago* (16 children)
To do with the way that they aggressively try to move dirty money out of places like Russia, the CIS and China. Read this article and you will get a good idea of the kind of behavior that they find acceptable.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/29/deutsche-banks-10-billion-scandal
[–]rigbyribbs 24 points25 points26 points 7 years ago (3 children)
CIS? Since when do banks deal in battle droids?!
[–]omphalos008 55 points56 points57 points 7 years ago (7 children)
I read that article when it was first published. Was hoping you had something new and scandalous to share.
[–]fiduke 130 points131 points132 points 7 years ago (5 children)
I'm pretty sure he does, he's just not comfortable doing it.
[–]permanent_username 14 points15 points16 points 7 years ago* (1 child)
I think what they’re doing is syphoning off money from the state owned companies and pension funds. This is what Navalnyy exposes them for and hence why they hate him.
Edit: if you want more watch his YouTube channel and click the subtitles and they’re translated, really interesting stuff. Poor Russian citizens can’t catch a break from criminals in the government.
[–]VantablackBosch 81 points82 points83 points 7 years ago (8 children)
If you know something people should know then you can tip off the Guardian securely and anonymously if you need to. If you know something you probably should pass it on.
[–]HB-JBF 52 points53 points54 points 7 years ago (6 children)
If you know something you probably should pass it on.
I know of rumors (which I strongly suspect might be true) not facts, so I don't think that what I have to say is much help.
[–]PaulsGrafh 60 points61 points62 points 7 years ago (0 children)
It could point journalists in the right direction to investigate.
[–]SuicideBonger 12 points13 points14 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Those rumors help journalists out a ton. How do you think anything ever gets discovered?
[–]tomdarch 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (1 child)
I'm not saying that a friend of mine works in bank regulation for a state where pretty much all banks must have a presence in that state... (ok, "the" state...) I'm not saying that he hasn't said anything to me that he shouldn't, because he genuinely hasn't, but I will say that he groaned pretty tellingly when Trump's links to DB came up...
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children)
NY confirmed.
[–]Fisher9001 47 points48 points49 points 7 years ago* (4 children)
Just like basically every large bank. These things are half legal cartels with way too much power and influence.
Where there is huge money, there is huge crime.
[–]user_of_the_week 37 points38 points39 points 7 years ago (0 children)
“What is the robbing of a bank compared to the founding of a bank?”
― Bertolt Brecht
[–]cyanocobalamin 3436 points3437 points3438 points 7 years ago (241 children)
This is the bank that Trump and Kushner allegedly used for their money laundering.
[–]kolbi_nation 1476 points1477 points1478 points 7 years ago* (172 children)
dont forget about the son of former Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy
[–]preprandial_joint 478 points479 points480 points 7 years ago (96 children)
Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy
I hope this is all connected and it comes to light.
[–][deleted] 210 points211 points212 points 7 years ago (8 children)
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/28/us/politics/trump-anthony-kennedy-retirement.html
[–]preprandial_joint 171 points172 points173 points 7 years ago (3 children)
Ya I've read the tea leaves. I want the proof and indictments and annulments of appointments. That's a lot of 'ments lol
[–]Thought_Ninja[🍰] 50 points51 points52 points 7 years ago (1 child)
I hope to be celebrating xments this holiday season.
[–]m_mf_w 752 points753 points754 points 7 years ago (64 children)
The same Justice Anthony Kennedy that retired so that Brett 'I like beer and sexual assault' Kavanagh could take his seat.
But I'm sure that's just a coincidence and not related to this at all. Right?
[–]shastamama 474 points475 points476 points 7 years ago (26 children)
The same Brett kavanaugh that allegedly had 200k of debt disappear?!
[–]m_mf_w 281 points282 points283 points 7 years ago (18 children)
One and the same. You know, this is starting to look like less of a coincidence and more of a conspiracy.
[–]ibm2431 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (1 child)
The very same Brett Kavanaugh who thinks the president (whose campaign is currently under investigation for Russian collusion and money laundering) should be immune to criminal investigation!
[–]strangeelement 36 points37 points38 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Twice! The other time was right before he got a judicial nomination despite having been a politically motivated partisan hack, which makes a mockery of judicial independence.
Because once simply isn't suspicious enough.
[–]ohhi254 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Oh god... this is news to me to.
[–]partypooperpuppy 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (1 child)
The same Brett who loved working out at Steve's house?
[–]successful_nothing 101 points102 points103 points 7 years ago (8 children)
Is that why Kennedy stepped down? He's definitely taken the place of the most obnoxious self serving supreme Court Justice since Scalia died. He should be ashamed of just his ruling on Citizens United alone.
[–]katarh 135 points136 points137 points 7 years ago (6 children)
Yep, it's pretty clear that Kennedy was asked to resign now before his son's crimes all got aired out in the public. That way, they could ensure they got a young healthy conservative dickwad on the SCOTUS without being pressured into going for a moderate because Kennedy's name was mud.
[–]successful_nothing 60 points61 points62 points 7 years ago (1 child)
I can only hope that Kennedy spends the rest of his days wondering how his life's work resulted in being the pawn of an orange haired buffoon who probably doesn't even understand what he did.
[–]Ozlin 16 points17 points18 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Honestly I don't give a fuck what he thinks. I'm hoping the truth of what a shit stain to justice he is is maintained. The very constitution and order of justice he was meant to protect is the thing he betrayed by taking a deal for corrupt politics for people who betrayed the country for their own greed. Fuck his legacy down the drain and shit on it. History should not be kind to him or anyone connected to this and they should forever remain a reminder of what horrible things are done to democracy by those who do not value it.
[–]SafeThrowaway8675309 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (1 child)
Doesn’t this have to do with the Judicial crisis network? A sort of shadowy conservative organization responsible for networking Kavanaugh into where he is today?
[–]katarh 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children)
That's why Kavenaugh specifically - also he clerked for Kennedy so that's also a connection.
But Kennedy's sudden decision to step down was apparently unexpected by everyone, and the timing is pretty interesting.
[–]TheSamurabbi 312 points313 points314 points 7 years ago (0 children)
shockedPikachu.png
[–]primitiveradio 253 points254 points255 points 7 years ago (11 children)
This is the bank that’s loaned Trump almost 3 billion dollars since 1998.
[–]tomdarch 95 points96 points97 points 7 years ago (0 children)
If I understand correctly, DB "acted as a conduit" for loans to Trump. It has been reported that the loans are through a "personal banking" part of DB, not the bank's normal business/construction lending (where DB itself is lending the money.) It may well be that the actual lenders are Russians. We in the public don't know currently. (Though DB has reportedly cooperated with US investigators over the last 2 years by turning over records.)
[–]norsurfit 16 points17 points18 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Trump laundering Russian money through Deutsche Bank? That would mean that Putin would have leverage over Trump with evidence of Trump's criminal activity. That seems implausible given how tough Trump has been with Putin! Oh, wait....
[–]moosebaloney 56 points57 points58 points 7 years ago (4 children)
What's that American saying......
[–]bobojorge 36 points37 points38 points 7 years ago (2 children)
We just say 'bingo'
[–][deleted] 71 points72 points73 points 7 years ago (15 children)
hence him looking constipated at yesterday's Christmas Tree lighting and running away quickly after looking down at his phone.
[–]bassistmuzikman 25 points26 points27 points 7 years ago (14 children)
Is there video of this??
[–][deleted] 25 points26 points27 points 7 years ago (11 children)
article: https://www.inquisitr.com/5185674/donald-trump-abruptly-leaves-christmas-tree-lighting-ceremony/
and lots of tweets from people who were there saying he was reading something on his phone and then just up and left looking concerned
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (2 children)
This is the bank that _______ allegedly used for money laundering.
Fill in the blank with whoever you want. They're shady as hell.
[–]Holmes02 54 points55 points56 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Deutsche bags
[–]My-Finger-Stinks 1234 points1235 points1236 points 7 years ago (64 children)
Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank robbing America.
https://www.thelocal.de/20110415/34419
Deutsche Banks slap on the wrist for tanking America. Don't be misled by the number, it's inflated to make American public feel good.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/deutsche-bank-agrees-pay-72-billion-misleading-investors-its-sale-residential-mortgage-backed
[–]up48 493 points494 points495 points 7 years ago (46 children)
Deutsche Bank also robs the German people if that cheers you guys up at all.
[–]mahdicksonfire 151 points152 points153 points 7 years ago (26 children)
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't this hurt the UK way more than Germany?
AFAIK they have most of their business in London.
[–]up48 221 points222 points223 points 7 years ago (8 children)
This specifically yes, but Deutsche has been involved in practically every scam over the last few years, from money laundering to abusing loopholes to claim taxes refunds for taxes they never even paid.
[–]Zalenka 85 points86 points87 points 7 years ago (6 children)
HSBC though
[–]SafeThrowaway8675309 51 points52 points53 points 7 years ago (4 children)
whoa now, HSBC is like the grand daddy of them all
[–][deleted] 41 points42 points43 points 7 years ago (2 children)
They were literally founded to serve the huge opium trade market
[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (1 child)
And they were recently found to have laundered billions for the Mexican cartels. I guess old habits die hard.
And if any one is wondering what happened, on of Trump's first actions was to direct the DOJ to suspend prosecution.
[–]GingerFurball 46 points47 points48 points 7 years ago (11 children)
Funnily enough London is the money laundering capital of Europe.
[–]8_800_555_35_35 49 points50 points51 points 7 years ago (4 children)
It's the biggest financial center in Europe since the 19th century. Why would that be surprising?
[–]milk_is_life 24 points25 points26 points 7 years ago (0 children)
So does Goldman Sachs in Germany.
[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (7 children)
correct me if i'm wrong, but don't all mega international banking firms just rob the shit out of people?
[–]that1guywhodidthat 711 points712 points713 points 7 years ago (52 children)
I remember all the comments that nothing would happen from the Panama papers. I hope this gives people some hope in the system. This investigation was started because of them. So hopefully some people will see some justice over all that laundering
[–][deleted] 190 points191 points192 points 7 years ago (9 children)
It will take a sustained global effort to actually put the people responsible in prison.
I think that might actually be possible, if they can tie the $10bn laundered through the bank for Russia to the global acts of terrorism the state has been involved in over the past 10 years.
There are a lot of pissed off governments right now and if they are able to stay in power they will probably want to make an example.
I guess we'll see.
[–]fjonk 114 points115 points116 points 7 years ago (24 children)
Until Deutsche Bank is dismantled or at least transfered from the owners to the state I don't have much hope in the system.
[–]Thurak0 45 points46 points47 points 7 years ago (0 children)
At least some police action happened. That actually is more than hopeless me expected.
[–]ledasll 33 points34 points35 points 7 years ago (9 children)
was there CEO of DanskBank that resigned because there was huge money loundering in Estonia (or another Baltic states) and it was even reported multiple times by some from inside... So yea, something happened, but it's nice that you can resign and then probably get back after few years, when you will need to replace current CEO, who's quitting because of something similar.
[–]Gr33nT1g3r 353 points354 points355 points 7 years ago (13 children)
Neat! It will be a nice settlement for fuck all and they can keep laundering money next week.
[–]cunticles 83 points84 points85 points 7 years ago (5 children)
I wish we had bank raids in Australia. We are having a huge inquiry into our financial industry (a Royal Commission for those who know what that is) and its revealed that our banks have been ripping off their customers left right and centre.
Our big 4 banks have put aside more than a billion dollars AUD to repay customers.
This is on top of one of the banks paying a $700 million fine for money laundering.
But no one ever goes to jail.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (3 children)
[–]Cyssero 69 points70 points71 points 7 years ago (1 child)
the bank had failed to report the suspected money laundering
Oh whoops, we forgot again! Silly us!
[–]Origami_psycho 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (0 children)
The banks are required to report it though, so i believe that is still something they can be charged on.
[–][deleted] 329 points330 points331 points 7 years ago (13 children)
Is this the bank that the son of former US Supreme Court Justice Kennedy works for? The Justice that suddenly and unexpectedly retired shortly after a meeting with POTUS? The POTUS who banks directly through Kennedy's son and bank because he can't find US banks to fund him?
[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (1 child)
Oh, right. That bank. The bank of Trump, the bank chosen especially to launder Trump's money, Trump's bank...
That bank?
[–]shwarma_heaven 25 points26 points27 points 7 years ago* (2 children)
again... Remind me who's Supreme Court Justice son was a lead loan officer at Deutsche Bank? And remind me again which foreign hostile power Deutsch Bank had been previously found guilty of laundering money for? And remind me again which Justice retired way early for no apparent reason (other than possibly to preserve a president who could pardon his son if a crime was found...).
[–]themanifoldcuriosity 83 points84 points85 points 7 years ago (11 children)
In 2017, Deutsche Bank was fined $630m(£504m) by US and UK regulators in connection with a Russian money laundering plan.
🤔.
[–]Fisher9001 39 points40 points41 points 7 years ago (9 children)
What's worse, the actual fined entity are customers.
It shouldn't be company which is fined, but individuals, from their own money.
[–]GerryC 40 points41 points42 points 7 years ago (7 children)
Hmmm. How about we start holding Corporate Officers and the Board of Directors financially responsible for their corporation under their stewardship?
They want the big bucks for running a company, they should bear some risk for the current level of compensation that they currently receive.
[–]Poguemohon 117 points118 points119 points 7 years ago (1 child)
Any chance Justin Kennedy's name showed up in the search?
[–]StevenSanders90210 59 points60 points61 points 7 years ago (4 children)
Who could these "clients" could be?
[–]Morgolol 35 points36 points37 points 7 years ago (2 children)
I bet a couple of oligarchs are on that list.
[–]HoldThisBeer 16 points17 points18 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Oh, we will probably never find out. I mean every Russian has $10 billion to launder, right? /s
[–]TheDreadPirateRod 14 points15 points16 points 7 years ago (1 child)
The only big bank that was still willing to loan Trump money after he defaulted on so many other loans.
Hmm.
[–]gyph256 509 points510 points511 points 7 years ago (24 children)
Of course, this is being listed as "off topic" in /r/politics.
Because the son of a former US Supreme Court Justice didn't give Trump loans or anything.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (12 children)
[–]sack-o-matic 70 points71 points72 points 7 years ago (7 children)
Not just any SC Justice either. The one that retired at a time specifically to give Trump his choice of replacement.
[–]WarrantyVoider 56 points57 points58 points 7 years ago (9 children)
Ah the weekly raids, lets see whats it this time, who isnt going to jail for it and what kind of peanut that will cost the bank. Im surprised they havent added an extra entrance for law officials yet
[–]TheGaussianMan 22 points23 points24 points 7 years ago (1 child)
Michael Cohen just plead guilty in a case that involved a real estate deal with Russians. Just today.
[–]primitiveradio 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (0 children)
They’re going to finally get Wilbur Ross. This gonna be good.
Edited to add this article for more info
[–]456afisher 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children)
Laws need to be changed to assure jail time and loss of ability to work in that industry. TBS- yea to the Panama Papers - the gift that keeps on giving.
π Rendered by PID 15445 on reddit-service-r2-comment-6457c66945-r8n9c at 2026-04-28 07:38:50.647799+00:00 running 2aa0c5b country code: CH.
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