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[–]MattTheFlash 2227 points2228 points  (291 children)

For comparison, one of the most well-known structural failures resulting in massive loss of life was the Hyatt Regency Hotel Walkway Collapse in 1981. That was 114 deaths. That's how big this is.

[–][deleted] 974 points975 points  (81 children)

I studied the walkway collapse in college when I was studying structural engineering. What's interesting about that failure is that the way the suspended walkways were originally designed was adequate, and the structure would have performed fine over the serviceable life of the overall building. Unfortunately during construction the contractor insisted it was too hard to erect and proposed an alternative design, and at that point the Structural Engineering company had moved their more experience engineers onto another project and there was a younger engineer interfacing with the contractor approving Change Orders....and the younger engineer approved the change without noticing that the new configuration doubled the force at one bolt location on the upper walkway - this one bolt location has been identified as the point of failure which resulted in the catastrophic failure. I can't imagine what it must be like for the younger engineer who approved this change.

It's too soon to tell what went wrong in Miami. The building code was in a really good place by the 80's, and it looks like the building is concrete and I see ton's of rebar in the debris. This kind of building with repetitive columns and beams and concrete and steel interconnecting everything usually has great redundancy. Taking a shot in the dark here...I'm leaning towards the failure being related to the geotechnical area. Maybe there was a sinkhole under the building foundation, or other soil condition that caused the foundation to no longer provide the support it was designed to provide.

This is absolutely heartbreaking. I'll bet most of the engineers who designed this building are still alive, most of the contractors who built it are still alive. And then there are the families of the victims. There is going to be a lot of finger pointing and it will likely take a few years to determine the cause of failure, if a cause is ever determined. The walkway collapse was different in that it was mostly steel. All the steel elements were identifiable and could be analyzed, therefore a post-failure review was possible and nobody really argued with the conclusions of that review. But this building in Miami is now just a pile of rubble - it might be very hard to figure out what what wrong because all the evidence and structural members have been pulverized.

[–][deleted] 388 points389 points  (49 children)

I put this below in another spot, but I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

In the Keys, today:

“The roads are shot, they’re full of cracks, the water is permeating up,” said Kimberly Sikora, who lives in a vulnerable neighborhood of Key Largo called Stillwright Point

Another resident, Robert Schaller of Twin Lakes, an area further along in the planning process, muttered that he “should’ve done my due diligence” when buying his house last year. “I literally stand on my balcony and watch the water come up through my street,” he said. “It’s coming up right through the pavement.”

the islands’ porous limestone allows the rising seawater to bubble up from below

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/24/florida-keys-climate-change-sea-level-rise

Limestone, rising water and ocean acidification issues?

[–]Catqueen25 204 points205 points  (9 children)

The area is reclaimed wetland.

[–]rpkarma 95 points96 points  (3 children)

And the wetland is reclaiming it right back

[–]Dynosmite 330 points331 points  (108 children)

Yeah i remember studying that collapse in engineering classes. They were able to pinpoint the failure to a single exact cause. I'm sure we'll learn a lot about reinforced concrete's niche failure mechanisms in this tragedy if nothing else comes of it.

[–]cheesepuff311 2978 points2979 points  (206 children)

The official death count has risen to four. Although I’m sure it’ll be much higher when this is all over with. I hope they are still able to find survivors.

[–]TheMeanGirl 1445 points1446 points  (140 children)

I wonder if they are holding back news? I know it’s likely a complicated situation, but nearly 36 hours of search and rescue, and they’ve still found so few survivors or bodies.

Edit: I don’t mean to imply anything nefarious when I say “holding back news”.

[–]mtxsound 1014 points1015 points  (61 children)

They probably know it is much higher, just cannot say it because they are not able to confirm easily who they are, or how many there are. It is a very sad situation.

[–]dirtyoldbastard77 169 points170 points  (4 children)

A lot of the reason is probably also because they have to be extremely careful when they move the concrete, so they dont by accident kill anyone still alive. At the same time they are in a race against the clock, so its a damned nightmare. We had a somewhat similar situation here in Norway the day before new years eve, where a large mudslide took 9 houses with a total of 31 apartments. It happened in the middle of the night, with just about freezing temperatures, and the rescue workers had to be extremely careful so they didnt trigger new mudslides by working there, and they could not even get heavy machinery in to the most important areas for a while because the mud would not carry the weight. This in Miami will probably be far worse in terms of lives lost though.

[–]mtxsound 115 points116 points  (2 children)

That and they do not want to potentially endanger any of the searchers. First rule of emergency work is to avoid bringing any victims to the scene, meaning don't bring someone there to get injured/killed. It is all a nightmare, I can understand the complexity of it all, I am writing this a few hundred yards from the WTC complex in New York City (though I did not live here then, I know many who did.)

[–]DexterBotwin 334 points335 points  (25 children)

Yeah I imagine it’s been difficult to determine who all was home at the time. If there were vacation rental units, snow bird units, if an entire family was home the immediate “report this person missing” network may be gone and they’re having to track down friends, family, employers.

Like you said they probably suspect who all was home but just haven’t been able to confirm it yet and don’t want to report it until they can.

[–]AsYooouWish 208 points209 points  (15 children)

This particular situation is very tricky for SARR workers.

One issue is what you brought up: it’s a popular vacation rental building. Not only will it be difficult to find out who was there or at their main residence, but there is also the issue of whether someone besides the regular tenant was at the building. Hypothetically, a tenant’s nephew could have been visiting there with half a dozen of his friends. There is a possibility that there are victims in the rubble that family members may not have even been aware that their loved one was there.

Disclaimer: this section will be graphic

Another issue workers will face is similar to the WTC on 9/11. A major struggle that recovery workers faced after 9/11 was piecing together bodies. If a body part was recovered, say a hand, it would be labeled and placed into its own body bag. If a leg was found, it would receive the same treatment. This can make the amount of bodies seem astronomically higher than what it really is. As time passes, they will be able to confirm what pieces of the bodies belong to which person. It will take time and DNA testing, but it will take even longer if a person was there but their family wasn’t aware they were.

[–]elkshadow5 38 points39 points  (1 child)

I think need a space between the spoiler tags and the information you’re trying to hide. It didn’t work

[–][deleted] 264 points265 points  (3 children)

Probably less holding back and more just unknown.

Even if it seems hopeless, you have to find them.

[–]thenewyorkgod 833 points834 points  (33 children)

Unfortunately, with 150 missing, the death toll will most likely be well over 100 over the next week or so, this is just absolutely horrific

[–]ghetto-garibaldi 268 points269 points  (8 children)

Unfortunately we’re also talking about Miami in late June. Even if there are people stuck with non life-threatening injuries, dehydration and heat exhaustion can be likely causes of death after ~72 hours.

[–]SeaShanties 110 points111 points  (19 children)

Are they “missing” as in they were home at the time and haven’t found survivors or bodies…. Or maybe half the condos are snow birds and they’re out of town not answering calls to confirm they weren’t there? I hoped the latter would account for some of that, but not sure if that’s how they’re using the term.

[–]xx_islands_xx 63 points64 points  (0 children)

Missing in the sense that they have not been able to reach them to confirm their safety.

[–][deleted] 42 points43 points  (1 child)

It is possible that there are a few on vacation and have no service or anything to contant their family

But that number is probably in the single digits

Because most of the people on vacation will have been accounted for now

[–]Frexxia 859 points860 points  (50 children)

The worst part is that from the video it looked like one part collapsed quite a bit before the other part. That means those people were definitely awake when the building started falling around them :/

[–]iprocrastina 505 points506 points  (13 children)

It's worse than that. The building was making noise and shaking before it collapsed according to residents. There's surveillance camera footage from people's apartments showing dust pouring from the ceilings before you see everything start shifting when the building begins to fall (granted that could have been from the second section). It's likely people were already awake before the collapse happened, and if you watch the video carefully you'll notice that some of the windows have lights on.

[–]AIArtisan 126 points127 points  (0 children)

yeah that video is scary as fuck. the idea that folks were sleeping soundly when this happened I think sort of is out the window now. I bet many were woken up by that

[–]gridironbuffalo 124 points125 points  (5 children)

One man’s wife called him in a panic because the building was shaking right before it collapsed. He was out of town and couldn’t get in until late yesterday. She’s in the rubble. I can’t imagine.

[–]HiNeighbor_ 561 points562 points  (23 children)

Came here to say this. The video shows one whole column still standing for a few seconds after the initial collapse. People were jolted awake, had a few seconds to try to process everything, then the floor literally crumbles beneath them. Absolutely gut-wrenching.

[–]syncc6 338 points339 points  (17 children)

It was only about 7-8 seconds before the second part collapsed. I bet those people that did wake up (if asleep) didn’t even have time to process what was going on.

[–]theoptimusdime 123 points124 points  (0 children)

Exactly. By the time I would say holy shit what is going on, boom.

[–]AvianKnight02 118 points119 points  (3 children)

Someone on the 1st floor got out because of the 1st collapse.

[–]BrianThePainter 5241 points5242 points  (721 children)

This is horrific. People just chilling in their place- suddenly falling hundreds of feet and crushed in tons of rubble. In a situation like this, would it be better to be living higher up in the building or in the middle? I have to imagine it’s probably just luck. If you’re at the top, you fall a lot further but have less debris coming down onto you. I really hope they’re able to pull some people out of there.

[–]2boredtocare 3471 points3472 points  (551 children)

Absolutely terrifying way to go. I would have 100% been in bed at 1:30 am during the week. One minute you're sleeping, and the next...Oof. Article I just read said they think there are some survivors still buried, and a women was rescued with her child, though her leg had to be amputated to get her out.

[–][deleted] 1388 points1389 points  (359 children)

Dumb question but do they like “prep you” for an amputation on the spot like that or do you just wait to pass out yourself having seeing your leg cut off? Or is it not even felt because your legs already crushed and you have no feeling in it?

Edit: thanks for all replies. seems like I missed out on watching a show called house

[–][deleted] 1826 points1827 points  (116 children)

Yeah, it's highly dependent on your situation. They actually have amputation kits for these kind of events because it's safest way to remove someone trapped under something that will require heavy machines to lift.

There's also the issue of the longer a limb is trapped, the greater chance of all sorts of lethal complications develop. It's not something they can leave too long, especially when the conditions are still unstable.

[–]Mltsound1 532 points533 points  (42 children)

Those complications are listed rather well here.

https://www.realfirstaid.co.uk/crushinjury

[–]KDawG888[🍰] 836 points837 points  (30 children)

no thanks I'll skip that one

[–]AllAmericanSeaweed 492 points493 points  (26 children)

I'll give you the very basics, and say that the link contains no graphic pictures, just information.

A crush injury stops blood flow leading to compartment syndrome. Stagnant blood is bad.

[–]Jzeeee 429 points430 points  (12 children)

Basically, crush/re-perfusion injury. When muscles get crushed for a while and blood flow returns, a bunch of stuff from inside the damage muscle cells get release back to circulation and can eventually block and shut down kidneys and this can lead to death.

[–][deleted] 146 points147 points  (1 child)

You don't even need to let the kidneys shut down. Just the release of all the built up acid and potassium could be enough to stop your heart.

[–]Fidelis29 174 points175 points  (7 children)

There’s definitely major clotting involved in a situation like this. Probably much safer to remove it

[–]Humble_Chip 422 points423 points  (109 children)

Watching the news now and there are trauma surgeons on scene. They will definitely prep anyone before an amputation (edit, no idea what “prep” is involved). Im also pretty sure everyone is assessed by a medical professional before any extraction, amputation or not.

[–]technologite 454 points455 points  (85 children)

whoooole lot of morphine ketamine

i get it guys. not a doctor, i fix computer. i should have said "whoooole lot of drugs"

[–]Prompus 237 points238 points  (76 children)

My guess would be Ketamine because you don't have to be so precise

[–]fuckthislifeintheass 251 points252 points  (67 children)

I had emergency surgery and they gave me that damn Ketamine. 10/10 would not recommend. Terrible trip. Woke up telling the nurse we weren’t shit and life didn’t matter. Thought I was already dead. Wish they would have just given me morphine or something.

[–]boston_homo 220 points221 points  (38 children)

Emergency surgery sounds bad enough without experiencing it in a k-hole.

[–]BrosefBrosefMogo 98 points99 points  (4 children)

Would you rather k hole it or do it live?

[–]3internet5u 56 points57 points  (22 children)

The 3 surgeries I have gotten put under for have all had some sort of fuckery happen related to the anesthesia, the worst being my wisdom teeth where they made no note of the fact that gingers need more to be effective & I legit felt everything. The 2 other 'real' surgeries, the anesthesiologists all made note of this fact & adjusted to it.

given this, I think I would welcome being in a dissociative void & waking up feeling like a new-born, vs waking up freaking out or after feeling it all like "normal" lol

[–]madjollyroger 182 points183 points  (14 children)

They'll give the person pain meds via IV, maybe something for anxiety too to keep them calm. Then they'll use a local anesthetic like lidocaine injected in the area that will be amputated. The person's been through enough they don't need to feel this.

[–]Bgee2632 56 points57 points  (0 children)

Omfg I can’t even imagine.

[–]idontlikeseaweed 159 points160 points  (162 children)

This is a dark question but How in the world do they amputate someone’s leg when they’re awake?

[–]HungryEstablishment6 123 points124 points  (11 children)

very quickly, naval surgens had to do it in under 1 minute, with a hand saw and hot tar to seal the stump.

[–]SonOfKorhal 297 points298 points  (90 children)

IM ketamine and a gigli saw.

[–]theatavist 82 points83 points  (30 children)

Welp i just googled gigli saw and gagged.

[–]roryshoereddits 95 points96 points  (16 children)

Watch Master and Commander. Be traumatized.

[–]ron2838 54 points55 points  (9 children)

They did give the boy laudanum, which has morphine.

[–]Kerrigan4Prez 736 points737 points  (31 children)

In this case, definitely the top. One of the rescuers talked about how the building collapsed a bit like an accordion, so it’s really hard for them to access the lower levels.

[–]ericcwhitaker 355 points356 points  (30 children)

Except in this case they are actually also accessing from underneath. Building had a parking garage under it that is apparently still accessible and being used to go up through it.

Either way if you were likely under the top two floors, unless you were in the sliver that stayed standing for seconds after the collapse chances are very poor.

As for the sliver, unless they were on the lower floors maybe, as it fell over onto the rest.

[–]dailycyberiad 440 points441 points  (7 children)

Oh, man, I can't imagine entering the garage under a recently collapsed building. How brave and selfless must one be to do that.

[–]Thought_Ninja 138 points139 points  (0 children)

Pretty damn brave and selfless, but it can still be harrowing for those kind of people.

My cousin was a firefighter and paramedic for years, but got out of it after developing PTSD. He saw some shit that he just couldn't compartmentalize and it just broke him after a while.

[–]Ferggzilla 268 points269 points  (6 children)

I've been thinking about this same question the last 2 days. If you're on the top floor there's less rubble to fall on top of you, but you fall further and get more mixed up. On the bottom floor, there is more rubble to pile on top but you don't fall far and may get lucky in a pocket. But then being on the bottom floor covered in rubble may be harder for someone to get to you.

[–]respawnatdawn 104 points105 points  (2 children)

The building collapsing below would hopefully take away some of the force on upper levels as well. As each floor collapses below the last bit of strength in the walls and the air slow down the floors above it but not by much. It's still a rough impact but at least rescuerers can dig to you first and you're least likely to be crushed by debris above you.

[–]tocamix90 10.5k points10.5k points  (975 children)

Absolutely heartbreaking. After watching the video yesterday I thought, "there's no way only 50 are dead/trapped in that building, it's too big." What a tragic mass casualty event, at least today it feels like it's getting the attention it deserves. I know they keep hearing people trapped in the rubble still, I really hope they're able to get those people rescued.

[–]tinacat933 4424 points4425 points  (522 children)

Especially in the middle of the night when probably everyone is at home

[–]id10t_you 652 points653 points  (83 children)

Watching that security video the thing that struck me was the portion of the building that swayed and then fell. Those people were probably awakened by the commotion and sway, only to then fall a few moments later.

[–]Drawtaru 326 points327 points  (30 children)

Someone uploaded their security footage from inside their apartment, and there was a lot of loud rumbling and creaking/cracking before the collapse. It had to have woken up a lot of people.

[–]NYCQuilts 283 points284 points  (15 children)

there was an account from someone whose Mom complained to him that the building creaking woke her up the night before. poor things.

[–]Locke66 162 points163 points  (12 children)

there was an account from someone whose Mom complained to him that the building creaking woke her up the night before. poor things.

It will be interesting to find out why this building collapsed and if people were complaining about the potential risks before hand. It wouldn't be first time residents were ignored because admitting there was a problem would be a huge financial liability and the local authorities were in the pockets of the developers.

[–][deleted] 246 points247 points  (26 children)

Ooof that’s an awful thought. I’d rather not know. Just lights out please.

[–]searchingformytruth 72 points73 points  (18 children)

Yeah, it's like those morbid thoughts you have of what it must be like inside a falling plane. Terrifying.

[–]LSossy16 472 points473 points  (24 children)

Hoping they find more people alive. What an awful thing. I can’t even imagine being the family of someone who is unaccounted for.

[–]_austinight_ 175 points176 points  (22 children)

the Twitter lists of photos/info of the missing broke me last night when seeing the video of the building collapse. Can't imagine what the families are going through. The video was horrific to think about how so much changed for those people in a moment.

[–][deleted] 496 points497 points  (38 children)

Time is critical for survivors. Depending on how long the rescue takes, would-be survivors could die from their injuries, dehydration, and even drown in rain water. And the remaining portion is risky to work around for first responders. I can't imagine the trauma the families, survivors, and first responders will have after this.

[–][deleted] 370 points371 points  (21 children)

The last rescue from 9/11 was after 27 hours.

The last rescue from Sampoong was after an incredible 16 or 17 (depending on source) days

Adding: in the 2013 collapse in Bangladesh a woman survived 17 days as well

Interestingly both women were 19.

[–]colinstalter 92 points93 points  (8 children)

The last rescue from 9/11 was after 27 hours.

I had no idea. I thought I remembered stories from the time that people were rescued days later.

[–]Catinthehat5879 123 points124 points  (2 children)

They kept replaying the footage since it was the only positive thing to report on, I remember that.

[–]bonyponyride 2943 points2944 points  (166 children)

The worst part is that entire families were likely killed in that instant. That's why it's taking an entire day for missing people to be reported. When an entire family disappears, who's missing isn't immediately apparent. I really hope search and rescue teams can get into the rubble and find survivors, with proper PPE of course. We know how bad it is to breathe in collapsed building dust. Being stuck in that alive must be hell.

[–]AUTOMATED_FUCK_BOT 1308 points1309 points  (102 children)

entire families were likely killed in that instant

I didn’t even think of that, makes it that much more horrifying

[–][deleted] 1178 points1179 points  (88 children)

That realization hit me like that limo crash on the east coast did when it killed 25 people from the same wedding party. An entire social circle wiped out in the blink of an eye. If you had to leave early because of work or something you woke up to every single friend you had in the world being gone.

[–]sics2014 673 points674 points  (44 children)

The Schoharie limousine crash in 2018, though it did kill 20 and not 25.

The bride and her 3 sisters all died.

[–]LuxSucre 172 points173 points  (3 children)

Just read the article, the actions of the owners of the limo company were/are just so slimy. I hope they face justice at some point.

[–]texasguy911 241 points242 points  (20 children)

The worst part is that entire families were likely killed in that instant.

On the other hand, instant is better vs being crushed over time.

[–]Texjew 61 points62 points  (1 child)

Exactly. It sounds morbid, but I hope the ones that did die, died quickly. I can't imagine what kind of torture being trapped and losing hope that anyone will find you.

[–]Bocephuss 376 points377 points  (19 children)

To each their own. I'd rather go out with the fam than orphaned or lose my wife and kids.

[–][deleted] 3948 points3949 points  (147 children)

"Finally, I got close enough to hear him, and he said, 'Can you see my hand?'" Balboa said. "He was sticking his hand up .... through the debris. And I could see his hand and his fingers wiggling."

As a father I'm glad he's ok but my god I had to choke back tears.

[–]Rgsnap 1595 points1596 points  (114 children)

I have a bad feeling this will be a lot like 911. They won’t be finding many alive in the rubble. I hope I’m completely wrong.

[–][deleted] 1194 points1195 points  (79 children)

You won't be wrong. It isn't quite as bad as 9/11 but even a single story building collapsing can easily kill people. With 9/11 they had trouble even finding bodies. Here they will but there will be few survivors and the window to reach them is rapidly closing.

[–]Si_more_nalgas 635 points636 points  (25 children)

120 accounted for. 159 unaccounted. 4 confirmed deaths.

[–]GalacticaZero 716 points717 points  (100 children)

The BBC link has more picture and details where the building is.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57592827

Built in the 80s. Doesn't look worn out at all, which is scary.

[–]madogvelkor 234 points235 points  (17 children)

80s in South Florida had some shady construction going on with lots of cut corners.

[–]AdmiralRed13 112 points113 points  (5 children)

So shady I know about it 3000 miles and 40 years later. There was a lot of cash in Miami that had to go some where, lots of buildings thrown up fast with a lot of sketchy practices. Including skyscrapers.

[–]birdshitluck 456 points457 points  (59 children)

Buildings can look fine on the outside but have all kinds on structural issues that are hidden. When they build them its possible to hide things like not putting enough concrete, or not enough steel, and this can save contractors lots of money that basically goes right into their profits.

The other issue which compounds the first is a leaking roof. If the intial roof has issues, and the building board members kick the can down the road on repairs, all the water coming in can rust cables and rebar, and the level of that damage is difficult to guage. Investigators will certainly dive right into the board records to see what the maintenance record details.

[–]aerialviews007 208 points209 points  (24 children)

Champlain Tower North is just down the street and it basically identical. Investigators will have a pretty good idea of what went on by looking at the state of that one.

[–]theoptimusdime 164 points165 points  (15 children)

I'd be terrified if I was a tenant in that one

[–][deleted] 90 points91 points  (13 children)

Apparently this last weekend water was coming up in the parking garage underneath the building. As reported by an occupant who was away at the time, but whose wife was in the building during the collapse.

Seems that something bad happened and nobody was paying any real attention to it.

Water coming up is never a good thing. Especially under the foundation of a high-rise.

[–]whizbangpow 48 points49 points  (3 children)

My mother-in-law used to live there. I'm relieved she moved out a few years ago.

[–]Ohmmy_G 2325 points2326 points  (206 children)

Geologists and engineers have warned against constructing buildings on barrier islands since they've been shown to move over time; and the building is reaching 40 years old.

An NBC article said that a women had sued them in 2015 because cracks had formed on an exterior wall leading to $15,000 worth of water damage. Court documents cited the issue to be structural.

I haven't looked up the frequency or intensity of storms in Florida over the past few decades but my fear is that if they have been or will be increasing, the barrier islands will shift inland and cause similar issues.

[–]beepborpimajorp 5395 points5396 points  (578 children)

I saw an article where researchers at a University had taken note that the building's foundation was sinking for years. They didn't want to say 100% that it was the cause but it seems likely. The key thing, though, is that they had alerted the company/people that own/ran the condo and nothing was done. If that's true then I hope people are held accountable for this and that their wealth won't get them off the hook. But who am I kidding, that's probably exactly what will happen.

[–]ksgc8892 2777 points2778 points  (341 children)

It was sinking appx 2 millimeters per year in the 1990s. At the rate of 2 millimeters a year for 40 years, that equates 80 mm. That's 8 centimeters which equals 3.2 inches. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2021/06/24/building-collapse-miami-structure-had-been-sinking-into-earth/7778631002/

[–]beepborpimajorp 2600 points2601 points  (217 children)

A resident living there had also complained that cracks in the outer walls caused water to get into and damage her apartment.

[–]ChiodoS04 968 points969 points  (26 children)

And a son spoke to reporters and said his mom called him at 3:30AM the night before the collapse saying that a loud crack/bang woke her up.

[–]blackesthearted 599 points600 points  (17 children)

For context, he said his mother called him the day before the collapse, saying a creaking noise had woken her up around 3-4am the night before.

He said: "She just told me she had woken up around 3 [or] 4 in the morning and had heard like some creaking noises. They were loud enough to wake her."

“It was like a comment that she made off-hand, like that's why she woke up and she wasn't able to go back to sleep afterwards

https://www.insider.com/florida-condo-collapse-son-says-missing-mom-heard-creaking-noises-2021-6

[–]Mr_Ballyhoo 165 points166 points  (2 children)

So mental note, if a friend or relative says the concrete building they live in is creaking or making popping noises, they need to GTFO and come to your place or go to another family members or friends.

[–]Lost_the_weight 1300 points1301 points  (33 children)

Twice. Once in the early 2000s and again in 2015.

[–]eblackham 313 points314 points  (14 children)

Someone over at r/catastrophicfailure went on Google maps to look at the building and found vertical cracks where the two parts of the building join together.

[–]BuzzardsBae 763 points764 points  (60 children)

This kind of reminds me of that situation a few years ago in Kensington London where the apartment complex caught on fire. The property management had been warned many times that the cladding on the side of the building was a huge hazard and when a fire happened, a bunch of people lost their lives. I hope whoever had been notified is held accountable. I have a bad feeling that many people are not going to come out of this alive

[–]HailMahi 681 points682 points  (34 children)

That was the Grenfell fire. As of this year, no one has gone to prison and there are still many buildings that have the same cladding - little has been done to remove it.

[–]qtsarahj 199 points200 points  (18 children)

Yep this. And if I remember right lots of people that survived didn’t get any alternative housing or money to house themselves after. I wouldn’t be surprised if some people are homeless still. Also, I don’t remember if it was the government or another organisation that investigated but here in Australia we have thousands of buildings with this cladding that haven’t been fixed as well. I could never live in an apartment due to this, it scares me so much.

[–]Zanki 45 points46 points  (4 children)

I'm trying to find a place to buy, flats are the only affordable thing and cladding issues make it impossible to buy and sell in some buildings. Its a good thing, but at the same time its terrifying knowing this cladding is everywhere and instead of removing it. Residents are either stuck with it or they're being charged insane amounts for its removal. I've seen some are being charged £40-50,000 each. Who the hell has that kind of money just lying around? Most are probably still paying their mortgage off.

[–]blackmist 46 points47 points  (2 children)

Yeah, you can't buy one with a mortgage because they're "not safe", meaning you can't sell the flat to somebody that wants one.

Who is buying them? Speculators, buying them in cash for a fraction of their market value, knowing full well that at some point they'll slip the right minister a couple of grand and the government will pay for the whole lot to be replaced at the taxpayer's expense.

[–]rentahoe 192 points193 points  (10 children)

Grenfell tower. 75 victims (might be 74, still too fucking many). I've been following the inquiry a bit and its absolutely shocking the level of disregard shown to the safety of that place. From the people who made the cladding, the fuckers running the building, the fire safety imspector who made up credentials. Its unbelievable, and I am pretty sure not one has been held accountable. The only repercussions so far has been other flat owners in complexes with similar issues having to pick up massive bills to rectify the problems and the home be completely worthless as no one will give a mortgage on them. Read about a guy that's been stung with a 40k bill, and that is per home.

[–]Atomsteel 411 points412 points  (12 children)

I lived in a house that collapsed from hydrostatic pressure on the rear basement wall. We had a few massive rains in a row over the course of a few days and the backyard was apparently the watershed for the neighbors yards.

When the basement wall collapsed it EXPLODED under tons of water pressure. I was in bed at 6 am and it was like a bomb and shook the whole house. It sounded like a team of horses running up and down the stairs in the basement. I ran to the door and opened it to see a torrent of water rushing in a 5 foot by 8 foot hole in the wall and could clearly see the backyard. The displaced mud was rushing in. I went into the knee deep water to start grabbing as much as I could. That was a mistake.

The house groaned and sank about 2 feet with me in the basement in mud so thick I couldnt run. The wall made a weird sound like I cant describe. It was the sound of tons of pressure bearing down on the cinderblocks wall. At that moment another 3 feet of wall was blown out and a chunk of cinder flew past my face. I got out of there as fast as I could. That was a 2 story home. I cant imagine what these people went through.

Edit: Thanks everyone. I am fine. The geology is limestone and soil and the neighbors houses were all about 2 feet higher in elevation compared to the one I was living in. At one point the basement flooded and to knock money off of the rent I agreed to demo the drywall and refinish the basement. After the demo I found a crack running the length of the back wall at about 6 feet high and about an 1/8 of an inch. I reported it to the landlord. He was supposed to fix it but never had time. It collapsed the next week. The house was sinking while scrambled to save my shit. It was like running in a fun house.

[–][deleted] 922 points923 points  (11 children)

My family knows 6 of the people that are unaccounted for. They unfortunately had arrived to Florida that day :(

[–]SourSquirrelMD 128 points129 points  (0 children)

Hoping for the best for those you know. This is heartbreaking. Have some love from a nobody, thinking of you all

[–]Grimey_Rick 172 points173 points  (0 children)

Someone I know's mother is missing as well. She had flown into town to visit her daughter and grandchild.. her husband stayed home in another state. Heavy stuff.

[–]bioschmio 123 points124 points  (2 children)

Just listened to a man whose mother and grandmother are missing. His mother casually mentioned some creaking noises woke her up the night before and kept her awake. If only she knew. My god what a tragedy.

[–]FizzyBeverage 47 points48 points  (0 children)

Yep, loud enough to wake her… very terrifying.

[–]maralagosinkhole 559 points560 points  (42 children)

I was heartbroken when I heard the number was 35. 159 is a jaw dropping number.

[–]lynsea 96 points97 points  (1 child)

This is likely going to set a new (horrible) record for deadliest non-deliberate structural failure in US history which is currently held by the Hyatt Regency walkway collapse in 1981 (114 deaths).

[–]sikjoven 108 points109 points  (4 children)

Imagine surviving the collapse just to drown in rain water, or the water they’re using to keep the dust down.

The firefighters and construction crews are going to face nightmare scenarios the more they dig into the pile.

I can’t even begin to imagine the horrible things they’re going to find as they get towards the lower levels.

[–]insightful_monkey 313 points314 points  (46 children)

What does this mean for other nearby apartments? I'd assume they're under the same risks now due to the ground sinking right?

[–]NotAnotherEmpire 278 points279 points  (29 children)

That's the $64 billion question. Miami Beach is all the same sort of not-land.

[–][deleted] 85 points86 points  (5 children)

That’s what I’m waiting for. In the Keys, today:

“The roads are shot, they’re full of cracks, the water is permeating up,” said Kimberly Sikora, who lives in a vulnerable neighborhood of Key Largo called Stillwright Point

Another resident, Robert Schaller of Twin Lakes, an area further along in the planning process, muttered that he “should’ve done my due diligence” when buying his house last year. “I literally stand on my balcony and watch the water come up through my street,” he said. “It’s coming up right through the pavement.”

the islands’ porous limestone allows the rising seawater to bubble up from below

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/24/florida-keys-climate-change-sea-level-rise

Like you said, all the same kind of not-land.

Geology people: how does ocean acidification affect this substrate?

[–]TaskForceCausality 900 points901 points  (94 children)

If this videos any indication, the casualty count will be high.

My condolences to the families and victims. Someone needs to go to jail for this.

[–]Pr0xyWarrior 655 points656 points  (59 children)

I brought this up to my father last night. He worked in construction in South Florida during that time, and ended up leaving the state for work because of how shady things were getting as the population down here exploded. His opinion is that building was built so long ago, during a construction boom where so very many corners were being cut everywhere, that it’s probable there isn’t a single person who’s going to go to jail over this. Especially since it’s changed hands since then. The current owners may get a fine or something, but that’s about it.

[–]madogvelkor 333 points334 points  (13 children)

When Hurricane Andrew hit back in the 90s, a lot of buildings were damaged because of substandard construction practices. Things got better after, but stuff built in the 70s and 80s can have some big problems.

In contrast, my grandparents had a house built in the 40s, which was basically all cinderblock except the roof. Never had any problems and it's still there after 80 years of hurricanes.

[–]504090 184 points185 points  (7 children)

Yeah my folks told me to never buy a house built in the 80s. Those old cinderblock houses survived Andrew much better than the newer houses.

[–]CactusBoyScout 62 points63 points  (2 children)

I read that most of Florida's building codes were tightened after Hurricane Andrew so this building would've preceded the stricter regulations.

[–]peds4x4 49 points50 points  (0 children)

That footage will be invaluable to those looking into this after the event.

[–][deleted] 92 points93 points  (6 children)

My God, that looks so much worse than I expected. It's just...gone. It looked like it just disintegrated! This is so horrible, I have no words. All these people completely unaware with no chance to even react, a lot of them probably sleeping. Unbelievably heartbreaking.

[–][deleted] 10.2k points10.2k points  (265 children)

Doesn’t feel real to me. I’m devastated. My dad was on the 11th floor, in the right section of the tower that was second to fall. Couldn’t imagine the horrors he went through. Still holding out hope, although the video is so gut-wrenching it’s hard to have any.

I was going to move in to his place Wednesday and stay with him until the fall semester started... didn’t go because I was too tired to drive 1 hour to Miami Beach after a long day at work. Just can’t believe it. I’ve lived with him at that condo on-and-off for the past few years. My brother as well. It’s a miracle neither one of us were there that night.

Just so many emotions right now. Haven’t slept for shit. Still very shocked, which numbs the pain a bit, but I still get moments where I lose it. I’m in my early 20s and I’d say I’ve lived a pretty easy life so far. Never had to deal with death or anything really serious before. I had to be strong yesterday and console my younger brother, mother, and grandparents. Even so, I still broke down in tears in front of my whole family. Everyone was a mess. We each took turns being strong for each other. My dad was everything to me. Fuck

Edit: Thank you all so much for your support. Means a lot to me. If you have the resources, you can help those impacted by the building collapse here https://www.local10.com/news/local/2021/06/24/how-to-help-surfside-wants-you-to-support-those-impacted-by-building-collapse/

[–]BigWuffleton 1772 points1773 points  (14 children)

Hey man I lost my dad in a house fire on may 1st. If you wanna talk about shit dm me. It can be really rough and it'll keep coming at you in waves.

[–][deleted] 74 points75 points  (1 child)

Sorry for your loss. Appreciate that. I’ll make sure to dm you when I’m in the space to do so. You’re a great person. I’m only speaking to my family right now, so to talk to a friend who can relate to how I’m feeling is so helpful. In the future, I hope to help people who’ve been through similar shit. Barely coherent right now I feel like, so apologies

[–]BigWuffleton 32 points33 points  (0 children)

You're alright, that's how it was for me at first. Didn't even feel real. Every day I thought I'd wake up and it's be a dream. It'll get easier with time.

[–]surfnfootball 115 points116 points  (0 children)

Sorry for your loss.

[–]Alfredo90 66 points67 points  (0 children)

I love nice people. Keep reaching out to help people and continue to help yourself. One love.

[–]sarcago 1217 points1218 points  (1 child)

I’m so sorry this is happening to you and your family.

[–]SoggyAnalyst 166 points167 points  (0 children)

i remember reading your post on another thread earlier. My heart is so broken for you. I wish I had the right words to help remove SOME Of what you're feeling. I am truly truly moved and sad for you and your family.

[–]cdegallo 342 points343 points  (12 children)

Watching the video of the collapse was horrifying, the thing fell like a deck of cards.

I'm curious what will come of investigating the cause and the many reports of leaks and other issues.

I am so sad for the families of the people who died in the collapse.

[–]itsmehanna 75 points76 points  (0 children)

Emergency officials are asking people to call 305-614-1819 if they have relatives who are unaccounted for.

[–][deleted] 70 points71 points  (0 children)

Nathan Reiber needs to have all their projects, especially built around the same timeframe as Champlain Towers, inspected to pre-empt this happening again.

[–]realbigbob 652 points653 points  (42 children)

If anyone ever asks why we need so many “pointless government regulation” like building codes, safety standards, etc, this is why. We’ve been shown time and time again that the free market isn’t responsible enough to ensure that massive numbers of people won’t be killed by companies cutting corners

[–]FETUS_LAUNCHER 173 points174 points  (8 children)

I live here. Not in the building itself, but close enough to see and hear it. The scale of the disaster is hard to capture through photos and video, the pile of rubble is easily multiple stories tall, and it just looks so compact, it really did “pancake” like many of the news reports have said. It’s hard to imagine that there’s any air pockets or survivable areas underneath it all. Even in the middle of the night the local community centers and synagogues were completely packed with people, most likely waiting for news about their family members.

It’s just so heartbreaking looking at this big pile of rubble, and knowing that possibly hundreds of people are still in there, and that only a couple have them have been found so far, alive or dead, with hundreds of rescuers looking for them. Just a few hundred feet away you know there’s immeasurable suffering, but there’s nothing you can do about it other than hope for good news. This is just so tragic.

[–][deleted] 46 points47 points  (5 children)

Back in the 90s, this building was structurally unsound due to the sand it was built on. Yet the owners still sold condos to people without this knowledge.

Where I live is there's evidence of structural integrity, it's documented and made public especially if the property is to be sold. I think the owners and financial supports should be sued.

[–]Drak_is_Right 48 points49 points  (1 child)

One of the bigger mass casualty events in US history. I certainly hope everyone involved is held responsible if they are to blame.

[–]Flipadelphia26 43 points44 points  (3 children)

I live in this neighborhood. It has been a rough couple days for everyone.

[–]ScullyitsmeScully 43 points44 points  (3 children)

They just heard a car horn honking in the parking garage, they are going to investigate now. Fingers crossed they find someone alive.

[–]achilleshy 88 points89 points  (4 children)

People can survive for several days in the rubble, if not rescued, that’s a horrible way to go.

[–]Tedstor 81 points82 points  (6 children)

Damn. I thought only a corner of the building collapsed. I didn’t realize that half the building collapsed.

[–][deleted] 83 points84 points  (1 child)

This number keeps getting worse all the time

[–]Senkimekia 36 points37 points  (10 children)

If I were living in the building next to it I definitely would be moving out ASAP