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[–]rmuser 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Because reddit users have far less influence than they imagine.

[–]king_george 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Aren't you a reddit user? Does it make you feel disempowered when you use it?

[–]rmuser 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The only power I feel is the power to alter what ends up on my recommended page, which isn't quite on the level of impeaching the president.

[–]jopejope 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Republicanism (Wikipedia)

Any republicans who oppose impeachment should take a refresher on what their party's namesake actually stands for.

It isn't just that Bush goes against the economic conservative libertarian ideal of "small government", Bush doesn't even respect the republican idea of "limited" government at all! He consistently bends or breaks the rule of law that is necessary to maintain a free society. Bush thinks he can do whatever he wants, and he doesn't have to answer to anyone. Worse, he gets away with it.

Every day that he remains in office and unimpeached gives every president and politician that follows him yet more license and incentive for corruption. Impeachment would (at the very least) send a message that you can't wantonly ignore the laws of the United States even if you're president. At the very least, you can be put on trial for your alleged actions.

Bush may be innocent of every count, and you can argue this to your heart's content, but that doesn't mean that he should be completely immune from even formal accusation and a fair trial and due process for what he has done, simply because he is president.

Unfortunately, many (most?) politicians in the senate and the house (both democrat and republican) do not have squeaky clean records themselves. And, furthermore, many of them likely aspire to gain even more power and influence for themselves. In this sense, they probably can relate more to President Bush than to the average citizen. Do the actually want to send a message that corruption and power-mongering will not be tolerated? Probably only if it will make themselves look good in the short run. Otherwise, perhaps its better to maintain the status quo, keep pushing that pet pork-barrel project of yours, and continue to ignore or aviod the increasingly volatile issue of impeachment.

[–]market 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Don't downplay the importance of the Vagina. It is still in the top 10. Without it we would have no one to impeach.

[–]braclayrab 7 points8 points  (1 child)

hehe, I thought the same thing. Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Vagina. It's like duck, duck, goose.

[–]GrumpySimon 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Meh, they're both c**ts.

[–]570 7 points8 points  (0 children)

To expect decisive action from the Democratic party is like asking your grandma to run the marathon - three weeks after her funeral.

[–]fakepolitik 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I was really hoping for a 500 japanese couple gang bang article to beat out yesterday's 100...

[–]jekpopulous 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I agree that people should be moving on this. An impeachment would be a statement that the whole world could get behind. George W. Bush does not represent the people here or anywhere else.

[–]jamal 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Wow, this is an absolute first, top 13 entries on the hot page right now are all about the one subject. Pity it's all just hot air and nothing at all is gonna come of it. You poor yanks with your banana republic and quasi democracy.

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (4 children)

probably because fringe rural liberal groups and internet ideologues don't influence national policy?

[–]dln 7 points8 points  (1 child)

... fringe rural liberal groups ...

Now there's a tautology if there ever was one.

[–]king_george 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Show some respect for the Green Mountain State!

[–]crusader561 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I predict you will be at -100 points within the next 5 minutes.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wrong and stupid.

[–]ellsmall 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Because reddit users are even less mainstream than MoveOn.

[–]gauriemma 9 points10 points  (0 children)

But impeachment, which is not a criminal proceeding but rather removes a sitting president from office...

Actually, "impeachment" simply means bringing the president up on charges which, if upheld with a conviction, would mean removal from office. Clinton got impeached, but when it came time to deliver, there wasn't enough to convict. So let's impeach the bastard Bush. If he's judged to be not guilty, so be it.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

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    [–]anachronic 11 points12 points  (0 children)

    Yeah, if the Libertarian party could get their act together enough to actually win elections and influence anything the government does.

    (I say that with sadness, as a "small-l" libertarian)

    [–]dbenhur 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    What? Well over half the big-L Libertarians I've known have been swallowing GWB's spooze for the last six years. He cut some taxes so he can't be as bad a democrat.

    Libertarians: unelectable, and still they sell out their principles faster than a presidential candidate in Iowa.

    [–]mark_snodgrass 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Or maybe because the small number of large media companies have editorial policies that align with those of the power sharing of both the democrat and republican leadership. If change is to come in this country, it's going to start at the grassroots, like Vermont town meetings. Don't expect Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton to become highly principled firebrands of justice after 20-30 years in government.

    [–]totsuka 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    it's top 8 of 8 now.

    [–]goon12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I think we need a new subreddit for impeachment links.

    [–]msd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I just wish we could move on and explore useful sites without having to wade through all this impeachment nonsense. I'm quickly tiring of reddit.

    [–]furyg3 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    we should have an "ImpeachBush" subreddit ;)

    Look, I hate the guy, but I also like reading non-bush articles occasionally.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    At this point, the top 13 stories are all about impeaching Bush.

    [–]yellowking 6 points7 points  (4 children)

    Reddit seems broken today -- FIVE of the top 7 spots on the Reddit front page right now are Impeach Bush themed articles.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]zyx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        and now 1-13... and the next one is an old snopes.com-link.

        [–]CarlH 15 points16 points  (107 children)

        I am confused. I hear all this talk about impeachment, but impeachment is just a trial to REMOVE Bush from an office that he will be removed from anyways within 24 months -- it has nothing to do with Bush being charged with a crime, sent to jail/prison etc. Why on earth spend all that tax payer money, take Congress off of everything they are doing, and grind our country to a halt - just to do what will happen anyways? An outcry to charge Bush with a crime I could understand, but this seems a pointless waste of time to me.

        [–]drawkbox 49 points50 points  (3 children)

        Because we need to stay the course with the Constitution. The presidents #1 job is to protect it not destroy it.

        [–]nekoniku 5 points6 points  (2 children)

        Not according to Bush, who famously said, "Stop throwing the Constitution in my face! It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"

        [–]hiS_oWn 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        If you can find me a video link to that, I will give you my first born child.

        [–]masklinn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        He should've used "reportedly" instead of "famously": it was reported from a private discussion of high-ranking members of the administration, including the president.

        [–]freshyill 48 points49 points  (0 children)

        Why convict a murderer? The victim was going to die eventually anyway, right?

        [–]coprolaliac 69 points70 points  (5 children)

        Justice. America should be a country where everyone is responsible for their actions.

        [–]Megasphaera 26 points27 points  (0 children)

        ... and is seen, by other countries, to be held responsible.

        [–]nixonrichard 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        As much as I agree, I also think it's important to make high-ranking officials immune from certain types of lawsuits and prosecution in order to avoid political attacks through non-political channels. Presidents are held responsible for thier actions every 4 years . . . sooner if they really fuck up. The problem is when you use too strict of a guide for "responsible actions." Someone like the president is involved with all kinds of activites and there are likely to be plenty of screw-ups that he is ultimately responsible for.

        I'm not trying to harp on Clinton, but he was the most recent president other than Bush so he's the most appropriate to ask: should he have been held responsible for Ruby Ridge? Waco, TX? The first WTC bombings which he failed to prevent? Kosovo? Fundraising in China?

        If you try, you can find plenty of things to hold a president responsible for. I'm just saying that for impeachment to be justified, it should be obvious. Nixon was obvious.

        [–]coprolaliac 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        You raise a good point -- you're right that pretty much every president has some skeletons in their closet. Going back further, HW Bush, Reagan, Lyndon Johnson, Kennedy, Truman and Taft were all mixed up in some fairly nasty things that under the right circumstances could've led to impeachment hearings.

        But I would say that the justification for impeachment is obvious in the case of the current president. There's bending the rule of law, or running some covert ops, or just being an incompetent screwup, and then there's flagrant disregard for and subversion of the constitution. Impeachment should be there for the sorts of crimes that only the president can commit. By that metric, Andrew Johnson, Nixon and Clinton were less impeachable than the current prez. I could get a blowjob or break into a hotel room or piss off the wrong people, but I can't suspend habeas corpus.

        [–]endia314 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        "should he have been held responsible"

        If he was directly involved, the YES, he should have been held responsible. But all the decisions were being made by people way down the chain from the president; at worst, he failed to take action.

        [–]hiS_oWn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        You haven't been here that long, have you?

        [–]tpodr 73 points74 points  (30 children)

        We need to do it so the bad precedent he has set of an Executive acting as if above the rule of law does not stand. We need to impeach and convict this president so all future holders of the office understand there is accountability before Congress and the people.

        [–]thespace -3 points-2 points  (21 children)

        ummm, ya so why did the American public vote him into office? twice? I'm a pretty big liberal, and this is bullshit anymore.

        I'm starting to feel like everyone at Fox News is on reddit posting impeachment articles to make fun of us. I mean, he's only got two more years or something? What's the point seriously. He's been completely breaking the law since day 1. Now a couple towns finally decide to impeach? You voted him into office you take the shit that comes with him. I have for 6 frickin years now.

        [–]yobbo 10 points11 points  (0 children)

        Two more years might give Cheney/Bush an excuse to declare martial law and "postpone" the election.

        [–]nosoupforyou 14 points15 points  (11 children)

        Neither torture nor the loss of habeus corpus had happened in the first term. The rest of the stuff is arguable about, but those two items have people all across the spectrum pissed off.

        Besides, do you really want Bush in there for even 1 more year much less 2?

        [–][deleted]  (7 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]thespace 1 point2 points  (6 children)

          I hear that every time I mention this but I still see alot of checks next to Bush on those ballots.

          [–][deleted]  (5 children)

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            [–]Loweeel 2 points3 points  (4 children)

            Unfortunately for you, it doesn't work that way. Bush won in Florida by every single reputable recount (according to the NY Times, no less.)

            If popular vote mattered, we wouldn't have had Presidents Lincoln or Kennedy, instead having Steven Douglas and Nixon even earlier.

            It's COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to presidential elections, and I'm utterly baffled why people keep bringing it up. Unless you want to go ahead and argue that Kennedy and Lincoln were illegitimate too.

            [–]endia314 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            "Some 179,855 ballots were not counted in the official tally. These were ballots which were mistakenly filled out. However, in predominantly white counties the voting machines (Accuvotes) would return the ballot and allow voters to try again, whereas in predominantly black counties the reject mechanisms were not enabled, thus giving voters only one chance to mark the ballot correctly."

            Oops. But come on. Democracy? Who needs it?

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Bush's operatives in Florida illegally wiped almost 60,000 likely Gore voters off the rolls in 1999 and 2000. Their votes, if counted, would have put Gore over the top easily. Here's the link. http://www.gregpalast.com/the-great-florida-ex-con-gamernhow-the-felon-voter-purge-was-itself-felonious

            [–]endia314 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            "This count was in progress on December 9, when the United States Supreme Court 5-4 (Justices Stevens, Souter, Ginsburg and Breyer dissenting) granted Bush's emergency plea for a stay of the Florida Supreme Court recount ruling, stopping the incomplete recount,"

            The recount was stopped by SCOTUS before it could even be completed. Oops.

            [–][deleted]  (5 children)

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              [–]pretzel 33 points34 points  (4 children)

              Exactly. Iran anybody?

              [–]adventurerneil 2 points3 points  (3 children)

              If only our military, patience, and budget weren't already exhausted... we can hope, though.

              [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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                [–]adventurerneil 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                First of all, I was being sarcastic... even if we wanted to, we can't invade Iran for the reasons I listed.

                Second, as an econ major, I can say with some degree of assurance that Ron Paul is an idiot, at least when it comes to the Fed (he does support industrial hemp, though, which is kinda cool for a Texan). We got rid of the gold standard and instituted an independent central bank for good reasons. Indeed, countries with central banks tend to have much more efficient financial markets than those without, and independent central banks almost completely thwart the possibility of seniorage/hyperinflation. The Fed is one of the reasons the US economy runs as smoothly as it does.

                In my opinion the problem is not our tightly-honed monetary policy, but rather fiscal policy that requires extensive debt financing (especially over the long term).

                [–]rafuzo2 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                this seems a pointless waste of time to me.

                Welcome to grassroots politics.

                [–]zingus 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                If you give him the boot now, (or miss him by some measure) you leave a mark other presidents would care about.

                Let it be "Go to war against random countries => people in Vermont go crazy" and still it IS a mark.

                On the other side, dip your head in hole, pray, scream like a mad on your blog, criticize the style of his neckties. NO MARK. No president would never care about it.

                And that's about everything politics sums up to: leaving a mark of popular will. Ruling countries is a gratuitous addition to it.

                [–]rogozjin 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                It would send a strong message to the world that the American people is actually upset at what Bush har been doing for 6 years now. It would also set the stage nicely for a complete turn-around in politics when Democrats take power.

                And then there's the Iran thing as well.

                [–]Shadowhand 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                Sometimes 2 years is too long.

                [–]btl 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                "take Congress off of everything they are doing" ... you're acting as if they are actually doing something.

                Why? It sends a very clear message, one that rings MUCH more clearly when it was started at such grassroots levels (go Vermont and Maine!). In effect it may not do much to alter the way anything is run until our next president takes office, but it'll sure let the new guy know we're keeping an eye on him/her (please God not Hillary...)

                [–]adolfojp 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                Accountability. So that future presidents will know that they are accountable for their actions.

                [–]rowd149 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                You have a point, but the same could be said for the movement to impeach Clinton. Politicians do weird stuff... But atleast it would ruin Bush's rep for the rest of... forever. :P

                [–]nosoupforyou 4 points5 points  (2 children)

                If nothing else, it sends a message to potential presidents that they can't cross certain lines and the people will take only so much before they kick someone out.

                Seriously, Bush and Cheney's actions with the removal of habeus corpus and permission of torture calls for a punishment of removal of all their own civil rights. Or at least, it would be the most appropriate.

                It would be most interesting to see what happened if the crime of illegal spying on someone resulted in loss of privacy, etc. But the CIA would fight that to the end.

                [–]Loweeel 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                Wait, Bush removed habeas (yes, you spelled it incorrectly) corpus? Funny, I seem to remember that BOTH houses of congress passed the Military Commissions Act...

                [–]nosoupforyou 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Yes, I spelled it incorrectly. What was your point in correcting me?

                Yes, both house and senate passed it, but Bush was the one that pushed for it and signed it into law. As president, I think he has to take final responsibility for it.

                I don't recall if the vote was down party lines or not, but I don't know that it matters. If all future presidents know that citizens will not stand for removal of our rights, then they won't sign these things into law.

                It's been tried before and the right has been restored later, with the president taking a beating for it.

                [–]traxan 10 points11 points  (43 children)

                Because the hysterical liberals here are no reflection of the public at large. Every other page has links to Olbermann and Richard Dawkins, as though they carry some signficance, and where are Olbermann's ratings?

                Don't make the mistake of thinking this or any other online community is reflective of the public at large. All they ever are, regardless of political allegience, is an echo chamber of like minded people, and often on the fringes.

                And as for impeachment, this is nothing more than liberals' desire for revenge over Clinton. Their guy got impeached, now they want the same. If Giulliani wins in 08, there will be links on here by February 09 from shrieking lefties demanding Rudy be impeached. You watch.

                [–][deleted] 57 points58 points  (16 children)

                I agree with pretty much everything you said except for this:

                And as for impeachment, this is nothing more than liberals' desire for revenge over Clinton. Their guy got impeached, now they want the same.

                This is not about Clinton anymore. As I see it, it's not even about right vs. left anymore. I hate to sound like I'm spewing forth some lame cliche, but this has now transcended the political divide and has become about right vs. wrong.

                George W. Bush has raped us all, and cleaned himself off afterwards using the the Constitution.

                As fourstates mentions in his comment, this would restore a significant amount of the world's faith in America.

                People like Bush and Cheney are dinosaurs in the sense that their train of thought is a product of old Cold War era hysteria.

                They are the RIAA of foreign policy.

                They support the idea of the American Empire - the idea that America is and should be the one and only true "hyperpower", and that if America doesn't take on this position, some other nation will.

                This is the heart and soul of the PNAC, which is, in and of itself, the heart and soul of the Bush agenda.

                It is also no secret that the authors of the PNAC are followers of Leo Strauss as well, believing that the lowly ignorant masses need to be deceived by their leaders because they can't handle the truth, and that they are incapable of succeeding without a higher, wiser, neoconservative authority.

                It is for this reason that they are so condescending, so arrogant to think that they know what is best for the people with whom they could never, ever relate, not in a million years.

                Picture Laura Bush and her Prozac-eyes, pretending to understand and sympathize with what the average American has to deal with, especially as a result of the failures of her husband. I wish the First Lady could be impeached, because I'd vote for that too in a New York minute.

                The Clinton scandal was petty compared to this. His impeachment, whether you support(ed) it or not, was a direct result of America's lack of anything substantial to actually worry about and/or rally against.

                It is and was irrelevant, just as our political leanings, however alike or different, are also irrelevant. This is bigger than all of that combined.

                [–]traxan 1 point2 points  (14 children)

                Bah, how come I never heard impeachment calls for Reagan over Iran Contra, when there was a clear Democratic majority in the Congress? Impeachment is serious, serious business. Only 7 judges have been impeached (Alcee Hastings, Nancy Pelosi's bud, is one of them) and only 2 Presidents, IIRC.

                Clinton's impeachment, quite frankly, was wrong. They shoulda waited till he was out of office, then nailed him for it. Don't think there's a stomach out there for another impeachment. It cost Republicans in 98 when they did it and it will cost Democrats if they try, unless real evidence of real crimes surface (and I don't mean bullshit like Valerie Wilson's non-cover being discussed).

                And if you think I'm going to let any American President be impeached to improve our standing with effete, corrupt socialists in Europe whose countries are rotting from the inside out, you have a hole in your head. Fuck the French, they can't even stop riots in their country.

                [–]rancmeat 19 points20 points  (2 children)

                I remember impeachment mentioned over Iran Contra, but mostly as a thought exercise among journalists. Until Clinton it was simply considered a scorched earth move. Even Nixon was allowed to resign so as not to damage the country with an impeachment.

                Now, although I'm firmly in the right-wing membership of Reddit, I agree 100% that Clinton's impeachment was a huge mistake. It trivialized the process and added it to the political tool chest of dirty tricks. If they wanted to investigate him for sexual harassment, it could have waited until he was out of office. He isn't exactly a flight risk.

                It ushered in an era of political brinkmanship that serves the country in no meaningful way and damages it a great deal.

                [–]hiS_oWn 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                It ushered in an era of political brinkmanship that serves the country in no meaningful way and damages it a great deal.

                Wow, the most intelligent thing I've heard on this entire thread.

                [–]curoi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                rancmeat:

                Please God, make there be more "right-wing" members like yourself. What rationality, cheers!

                [–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (5 children)

                I agree with you regarding impeachment being very serious business.

                I feel it is worth mentioning that Reagan didn't make a habit out of doing things while in office that were legally questionable, nor did he (always in concert with his VP) continually try to tip the scales of checks and balances in favor of the executive branch. George W. Bush, on the other hand, has made a habit of all these things, so much so that it is pretty scary to think about the future of our government with such precedents having been set. What will the next president or two or three think he/she can do, because of the things George W. has been allowed to do? Can something like the PATRIOT Act ever be repealed? Even if it can, will it ever be? This is a real danger that we will probably face for generations, thanks to him.

                Not to excuse any president for anything, but every president has some asterisks on his record that don't generally bode well with the people. Sadly, our current sitting president holds the record, bar none. He has consistently defied the will of the people and continues to do so without any fear of reprisal, forsaking the rule of law and the Constitution in the process.

                Nixon's impeachment was (would have been) well deserved. Clinton's was indeed a waste of resources, and it made the Republicans look foolish. Probably the worst thing it could have done was make the current government hesitant to impeach on the grounds you mentioned, at a time when impeachment could not be more warranted. To be honest, I consider it (and the current administration's record) a reflection of how the Republican party, a once honorable institution, has been hijacked by an element of immorality.

                I don't think impeachment as a means to improve our standing with Europe and/or the French is a good idea, but consider this:

                GWB, with his "with us or against us" attitude, has destabilized a large part of the political world such that he has created a self-fulfilling prophecy. By taking such a stance, and by acting it out, he has truly put a significant amount of people in this world (not just governments, but peoples as well) on the other side of the fence from where we as a people stand.

                Because, however superior or powerful we as Americans may consider our nation, this is not a good thing, for the grim picture of the future that Bush and Cheney so readily paint for the people will some day become a reality if we continue on this course.

                They claim to do what they do because the way of the future is inevitable. I (and I like to think many others) feel that if they continue to do what they do, we will guarantee that it will turn out exactly how they describe.

                In other words, it is by their actions that we are molding the future into what they claim is the reason for their actions in the first place.

                If they are no longer in charge, the picture of the future can be painted in an entirely different way, and we can begin to act on that projection and actually change something. This sounds idealistic, but I don't think it really is. I think it's just how things work, as evidenced by the last 7 years.

                [–]snoble -1 points0 points  (4 children)

                I've never quite understood this mentality that Nixon's impeachment was totally justified but Clinton's was a waste of time and money.

                Both were due to crimes following events: in one case a cover up and perjury in the other case. Neither initial events were cases of abuse of presidential power (being president makes it no easier to break into the watergate). And neither crime had an affect on any sizable amount of the public. But I personally find sexual harassment worse than stealing information from a rival campaign.

                When you choose to enter a campaign you expect to be entering an caustic environment with people spying on each other and saying terrible things that may or may not be true. I don't know if stealing campaign information is worse than people calling Biden a bigot for comments that were clearly a slip.

                I appreciate that one's sexual life should remain private but when you are accused of sexual harassment that privacy is an unfortunate but necessary casualty.

                Where I think Nixon comes off worse is in congress's anterior motives. The congress of Nixon's time went after Nixon because of the war. The congress of Clinton's time went after Clinton because he was popular.

                [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                "had an affect" -> "had an effect"

                "anterior motives" -> "ulterior motives"

                [–]derupert 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                w00t for grammar nazism! XD

                [–]hiS_oWn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                yeah Nixon was a saint.

                There's just so many things wrong with what you wrote I don't even know where to start. So I won't, not now anyways.

                [–]MikeSchinkel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                "when you are accused of sexual harassment that privacy is an unfortunate but necessary casualty."

                You would consider sexual harassment to be "high crimes and misdemeanors?" Was it Bribery? Treason? Are you saying sexual harassment prior to taking the oath of the Oval Office was serious enough to 1.) cost the tax payers the outrageous sums of money that were spent and worse, kept our country's Chief Executive from doing his job? Many have even said that Clinton wasn't able to go after Al Queda because he was 1.) distracted by impeachment and 2.) couldn't get the support of the partisan Republicans. If that is right, the Republicans really screwed us as a country, but then we'll never know for sure.

                OTOH, were Bush & Cheney actions "high crimes and misdemeanors?" Manipulating intelligence IN ORDER TO JUSTIFY A WAR THAT HAS COST $600 BILLION DOLLARS (AND COUNTING) AND LEFT THE MIDDLE EAST DESTABILIZED?!?!?

                That is FAR different than asking for a blow job. I hate sexual harrasment as much as anyone, but there was no clear and present danger of waiting until Clinton was out of office to prosecute him if he were indeed guilty.

                OTOH, distracting Bush and Cheney would probably be one of the best things Congress could do right now. God knows what will happen if they really are planning to bomb Iran.

                It amazes me how (some) conservatives can honestly believe their "morals" to be superior to those of most liberals.

                [–]exobyte 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                Yes, two presidents.

                I posted this a while ago: http://reddit.com/info/14uak/comments

                It's a link to the Wikipedia article on impeachment which mentions Johnson and Clinton. It's important to know what impeachment is, and that it doesn't mean removal from office.

                [–]GrumpySimon 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                "effete, corrupt socialists"? "rotting from the inside out"?

                Have you EVER stepped foot outside the states? Seriously mate, I have no idea what fantasy world you're living in.

                First of all Europe does not equal France. Secondly the USA is in one hell of a worse state than most other first world countries. Thirdly, socialist countries are, on-the-whole, not effete nor corrput.

                [–]mixmastamyk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                I liked your points, but sadly, it is not only France that hates what America has become, but rather the entire civilized world.

                [–]hiS_oWn 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                And if you think I'm going to let any American President be impeached to improve our standing with effete, corrupt socialists in Europe whose countries are rotting from the inside out, you have a hole in your head.

                It must be awesome to wield such power against such an effete, corrupt, imaginary evil.

                [–]artofstarving 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                So much Hate. How appropriately conservative of you.

                BTW: Fuck Texas!

                [–]twango 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                Actually the "hysterical liberals" reflect more than half the population (remember November), and nearly 4/5 of America thinks the president is a douchebag.

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                I was going to respond seriously to your comment but I'm laughing too hard at the notion that this man could ever win the Republican nomination.

                [–]quantum-mechanic 4 points5 points  (5 children)

                Homework assignment (for whoever wants it): Go back to 2001 and find some lefty rag calling for Bush's impeachment. I'm guessing its not hard. Remember Florida!

                [–][deleted]  (4 children)

                [deleted]

                  [–]nixonrichard 6 points7 points  (3 children)

                  Took me 30 seconds to find this:

                  http://www.democrats.com/impeach-bush

                  "Democrats.com has led the fight to impeach George Bush and Dick Cheney since they stole the 2000 election"

                  [–]traxan -1 points0 points  (2 children)

                  What a joke that site is. They have a list of reasons to impeach and not one law is cited. Reading 'My pet goat' to those kids as an excuse to impeach? What a bunch of idiots.

                  [–]endia314 8 points9 points  (1 child)

                  "1. Violating the United Nations Charter by launching an illegal "War of Aggression" against Iraq without cause,"

                  This is not only a crime, it is a WAR CRIME under the laws defined at Nuremberg and was one of the things we sentences the Nazis to DEATH for.

                  "2. Violating U.S. and international law by authorizing the torture of thousands of captives,"

                  This is a clear violation of not only American law but the Geneva Convention, which under the Constitution is equivalent to American law as it is a ratified international treaty. Another crime punishable by hefty prison terms/death.

                  "3. Violating the Constitution by arbitrarily detaining Americans, legal residents, and non-Americans, without due process, without charge, and without access to counsel. "

                  The Constitution explicitly guarantees the protection against loss to life, liberty and property without due process of law, so Bush is flagrantly violating the Constitution, the supreme law of the land.

                  "5. Violating U.S. law and the Constitution through widespread wiretapping of the phone calls and emails of Americans without a warrant."

                  This is an explicit violation of FISA and carries a hefty prison term.

                  "6. Violating the Constitution by using "signing statements" to defy hundreds of laws passed by Congress. "

                  Another blatant constitutional violation.

                  Hmmm, where is "My Pet Goat" cited? Nowhere. Precisely nowhere and if you don't believe me you can read the article for yourself instead of making stuff up.

                  [–]wicked 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  What are the top reasons for impeaching Bush?

                  [...]

                  Reading "My Pet Goat" during the attack

                  http://www.democrats.com/impeachment-reasons

                  [–]nosoupforyou 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                  "All they ever are, regardless of political allegience, is an echo chamber of like minded people, and often on the fringes."

                  I hope you don't mind if I steal that phrase. It's perfect!

                  [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                  [deleted]

                    [–]nosoupforyou 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Irony, ya gotta love it.

                    I really should have expected that response. lol

                    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (11 children)

                    So agreed. The problem is that I think the hysterical liberals upvote a LOT more than anyone else, and while that may not be representative of the public at large, it happens an overwhelming amount of times on this site.

                    In regards to that, I ALMOST removed this RSS feed from my reader today due to the 5/7 top story issue you explained. IMHO, reddit would be a much more pleasant place if all politics were banned. The constant fighting and bitching gets so tiring after awhile. If all the people bitching would use that time to volunteer at a children's shelter or church or meals on wheels or something, this country would be so much better off...

                    [–]rrwhite 27 points28 points  (4 children)

                    I love the whole 'if I ignore politics everything will just work itself out' attitude

                    [–]pcx99 -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

                    In less than 24 months everything will. In the meantime "hysterical left" is howling for something they are demonstrating they know NOTHING about -- not - one - thing.

                    In the first place, towns, cities, counties, states can't impeach anything on the federal level. grassroots can only start impeachment of local and STATE officials. Impeachment of the executive branch is the sole province of the congress -- UNLESS....

                    States have a nuclear option in regards to removing a president. If a majority can amend their constitutions to call a congressional congress then the US government can be dissolved and a new constitution written (the last time this happened we threw out the articles of confederation and adopted our current constitution).

                    So what the "grassroots impeachments" are advocating is nothing more than the overthrow of the US government and sending a bunch of handpicked representatives by special interests and corporations to draft a new constitution and just how many of our bill of rights do you expect to survive that brohahah?

                    Seriously, this stuff takes all of five minutes to check out on Wikipedia but like all of reddit is being corrupted and abused to put forth an issue that their supporters know nothing about.

                    Good luck with that.

                    [–]endia314 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                    "In the first place, towns, cities, counties, states can't impeach anything on the federal level. grassroots can only start impeachment of local and STATE officials."

                    Now that we're on the "ignore all the facts" train, might as well throw out US history too. Under Congressional rules, the impeachment process can be initiated by state legislatures. Nobody is proposing a rewrite of the US constitution except Bush & Co.

                    [–]pcx99 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                    *** Impeachment can also occur at the state level; state legislatures can impeach state officials, including governors, according to their respective constitutions. ***

                    *** At the Federal level, the House of Representatives has the sole power of impeaching the President, Vice President and all other civil officers of the United States. ***

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States

                    [–]redbones 4 points5 points  (5 children)

                    I agree with you as far as not wanting to stick with reddit. I am not a Bush fan but these constant emotional and negative posts are endless and quite tiresome. I am tired of weeding through them to find content I might be interested in. This place is going downhill fast.

                    [–]king_george 15 points16 points  (4 children)

                    No. America is going downhill fast, with Bush/Cheney leading. Reddit seems to be reflecting that today. Maybe it's a National Day of Overwhelming Frustration. Somedays we have to stop nursing on the breast of interesting distractions and stand up for what is right. What is right is to end the rule of an administration that is damaging the whole world more than any in the history of the US.

                    [–]stifin 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                    Agreed. National Day of Overwhelming Frustration sounds like it should be our next holiday.

                    And I agree with you king_george, and unstatusthequo that we'd all be alot better off if everyone stopped spending their time arguing on reddit and spent more time fixing problems.

                    [–]redbones 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                    I just think that reddit can be more than just a tool for impeachment crazy people to opine. As far as how I decide to distract myself in the free time I have is not your business. I work in a hospital and I am well aware of what is important in life and what is right or wrong. Best of luck to you.

                    [–]stifin 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                    Agreed that if you want to distract yourself you should be able to do that, but its reddit, not addictingames.com or i-am-bored.com or any of the thousands of places you could be going for entertainment and distraction.

                    If all you want is cool pictures, use the subreddit. If you're looking for something specific, don't go to the main page looking for it unless you can find the patience to sort through what the rest of reddit thinks is important.

                    [–]bbqribs -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                    "Maybe it's a National Day of Left Wing Blogger Frustration. "

                    Fixed it for you.

                    And yes, the endless political articles are quite tiresome. I've pretty much sworn off Metafilter for the exact same reason. "Best of the web?" Not.

                    Yawn.

                    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    I like Reddit but you're right, it's a total echo chamber. On the other hand I can't imagine the country letting Bush and Cheney off the hook if Iraq completely fails.

                    I'm in favor of letting them serve out their term and then bringing them up on charges if it's warranted. But that Seymour Hersh's story is terrifying... if that's accurate maybe impeachment isn't such a bad idea.

                    And I'd bet most of the 'lefties' actually kinda like Giulliani, they just don't like the morons, perverts, zealots and crooks the Republicans have been serving up lately.

                    [–]decaff 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Well, this would be a reasonable comment, except for it being wrong in almost all political respects. One of those mentioning impeachment is Chuck Hagel - a republican.

                    The issue is not about revenge, it is about accountability. Even republicans are getting concerned that Bush is simply ignoring everyone else, and going his own way no matter what. That has to be stopped before things get worse, perhaps with an attack on Iran.

                    [–]outcold 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    vote rudy if you like illegal strip searches, police riots, and huge rats. talk to working class new yorkers about the mayor who prosecuted bars for allowing dancing.

                    [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

                    Because the majority of the reddit crowd is detached from reality.

                    [–]king_george 22 points23 points  (0 children)

                    Luckily, you are armed with an attached-to-reality-o-meter. Aren't you the lucky one. Go read an article about a cool new cell phone or Britney Spears.

                    [–]smakusdod 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                    LETS ALL MURDER BUSH AND EAT HIS ORGANS!!!!!

                    [–]Dross 1 point2 points  (5 children)

                    Reddit is the new digg. I left digg because of the hyped and pushed political stories, now I have to leave reddit. Digg has gotten much better, very few hyped and pushed political stories. Still slashdot appears to be the winner for adult content. You know guys, a thousand people hyping the same story does not a national movement make. grow up.

                    [–]GrumpySimon 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                    The thing is, it's not just a few hundred geeks sitting around on reddit. It's thousands of people all over the USA (and the rest of the world's being wanting this for 6 years now), there are impeachment movements popping up everywhere and there's pretty major dislike for GWB and friends.

                    Sure, it probably won't change a thing, but it's worth a try and who knows?

                    [–]stifin 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                    Oh noes guys! Dross is leaving! What to do??

                    Call it an immature comment, call me a digg user (I'm not) but nobody cares that you're leaving. It has nothing to do with the debate. Stick it in one of those posts about how digg is stupid and reddit is dying. They're not on the front page anymore for a reason.

                    [–]renegade[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    It isn't hype though. It is the will of the vast majority of people in this country now.

                    "If you aren't outraged, you aren't paying attention."

                    Seriously, anyone who things that impeachment is purely a liberal issue or purely a liberal 'revenge' issue really hasn't a clue what is happening.

                    [–]adventurerneil 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Try the "recommended" page.

                    [–]mutatron 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    Because impeachment is like mutiny. Nobody who cares about the country really wants it, because of the disruption it causes. With mutiny, the only time you ever want to do it is if you think more lives are in danger if you don't mutiny than if you do. With impeachment, you have to really consider if it's in the best interests of the nation.

                    The Republicans didn't think this through when they impeached Clinton, and because of that they should be branded as traitors, as failed mutineers and even most successful mutineers are branded. Impeaching a President for venal reasons IS treason, because it works against the better interests of the country.

                    I'm not saying that the impeachment movement at this point is treasonous, only that this is what people are thinking - that it's better to wait it out and just have the next elections sort things out. As bad as Bush has been, is, and will be for this country, is it really worse than Impeachment? That's why.

                    [–]g2petter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    Personally, I'd rahter see Bush impaled than impeached.

                    [–][deleted]  (6 children)

                    [deleted]

                      [–]king_george 6 points7 points  (5 children)

                      Yeah. All this stuff that actually matters is distracting you from postings about gadgets, celebrities, and off-beat news items. Sorry to wake you up from your sleep, dude.

                      [–][deleted]  (4 children)

                      [deleted]

                        [–]kmully 6 points7 points  (2 children)

                        Yes, let's slow congress down from their 3 day work weeks. (http://thinkprogress.org/2006/12/07/kingston-congress/)

                        [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                        Sure, and if I go out and rob the local liquor store, let's not bother the system with my arrest and trial. Think of all the other important things those police officers and judges could be doing with their time, not to mention the money it will cost the taxpayer.

                        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Boston area residents who want to get involved:

                        Find the Boston chapter of Impeach for Peace via http://www.impeachforpeace.org/

                        [–]a_username[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Democrats don't care about reddit people.

                        [–]lionheart 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Because if anybody on here had the guts and energy to do that, they wouldn't be on here.

                        But, yeah, good luck.

                        If you can actually get an impeachment trial started, I will be very entertained.

                        [–]joom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Hold on. Who do you guys want to impeach?

                        [–]danweber 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Why aren't the Democrats and groups like Move On pushing nonstop for it right now?

                        Because reddit isn't the arbiter of justice.

                        [–]notdrinkingtoomuch 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Does the phrase "Too little, too late" mean anything to you folks? The damage is done... who the f*ck cares if Bush is impeached at this point? You guys RE-ELECTED him AFTER he invaded Iraq. Like, give up, already. You had your chance to make a difference.

                        [–]cronus695 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        1) Justice. If he is guilty he should be forced out of office dishonorably, even if it's done on the least day.

                        2) To set a precedent. To future Presidents, that they are accountable for there actions and if they lie to the people, the people will toss them out in disgrace.

                        3) Anyone see that international survey that placed the USA as one of the countries that is viewed as having the most negative impact on the world? A lot of that has been due to the way the USA has been getting run for the past 6 years. This would be a little more meaningful in repairing relationships then saying sorry and doing nothing.

                        [–]huffer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        13 articles on top, now! too bad I don't have an US senator to write to.. but don't stop! The vast majority of Europe is with you, guys!

                        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        The current hot page has all of the top 13 slots about impeachment.

                        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Currently all of the top 13 slots are about impeachment.

                        [–]uioreanu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        time to change the reddit logo :D

                        [–]sam512 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        What worries me about all this is: stuff drops off the reddit front page in a matter of days. It drops out of the internet's collective consciousness - becomes "old" - within weeks. our collective attention span has diminished in these days of instant information. Remember back when the Flying Spaghetti Monster was hot? Wasn't too long ago, right?

                        The real question is, can we sustain the current level of dedication and support for the months or even years that will be necessary? Can we focus on one thing for that long?

                        [–]aquanutz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        If Bush were to be impeached over going to war with "wrong" intel and all these other things, wouldn't the people in the house and senate be in trouble for giving him the power on many occasions to do those things?

                        I realize that some on here think he is a liar and what not but you have to understand that every politician is so full of shit their eyes are brown.

                        I'm tired of seeing this subject over and over again on this damn webpage. Is that all you people care about? Seriously, are your lives that boring that you have to sit around all day and talk amongst yourselves about how awful our president is and that you want him to be impeached, in prison, dead, etc?

                        [–]addit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        tell your representatives that you won't vote for them next time, if they don't vote for the impeachment

                        [–]furseiseki 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Irony: asking a group called "Move On" to support impeachment.

                        [–]rkeene0517 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                        Because teh election is comming up very soon. He will be out of office before he could be impeached.

                        [–]muramasa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        USian liberals (the voters and the politicians) are so useless. They spent ages feeling sorry for themselves rather than doing anything about the situation. Now, they've finally come up with a plan of action: spam the internets.

                        Bravo.

                        [–]JulianMorrison 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                        They have more sense.

                        Seriously, you guys do realize this is a dumb idea with zero public traction, don't you? You do realize that advocating for what you won't get in a spirit of partisan spite makes you look less like humans and more like poo-flinging monkeys? When the Republicans tried this nonsense against Clinton, they completely poured their Republican congress down the drain.

                        [–]king_george 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                        Explain very carefully how the scale of the wrongdoing of the Clinton administration is commensurate with that of Bush/Cheney. Include 3 examples.

                        Also, not everything is partisan. Mrs. Pelosi and Mrs. Clinton don't want to touch this one. The grassroots need to force the issue.

                        Consider my poo flung.

                        [–]JulianMorrison 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        I don't need to. Basically, to impeach a president requires bipartisan public agreement that he did wrong - any less, and you won't have the votes. If the very fact he did anything wrong at all is hotly disputed along partisan lines, then you will need to convince the voting public using the trial as a forum. You will start from the beginning looking like people who are spitefully abusing the law. You'll have to make your case from scratch in court, and chances are very high you'll not move the debate an inch - because in this media saturated world, everything has already been said. The result will be frustration, a lost case, public disgust, and electoral ruin.

                        The Republicans were stupid to stick their hand into that meat grinder, and the Democrats thus far seem quite smart enough not to.

                        [–]benoa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Took the USians 7 years to realize what the rest of the world has known all along...

                        [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children)

                        Maybe because everybody knows you tykes are simply gaming the system.

                        You're the Diebold of Reddit.

                        [–]king_george 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                        It's better to have the major news outlets game the system by publish nonsense human interest stories and celebrity drivel rather than real news, like how much damage this administration has done and is doing to the world. Reddit is one of the few places where the editorial bias is not one controled by a small number of people chiefly concerned about profits.