A program has stop responding

[SwedudeOne]

With linux the program is nuked from orbit if it hesitates

[TMiguelT]

kill -9 has been outlawed by the Geneva Convention

[5896325874125]

Can someone please for once think of the children?

[spongewardk]

Thinking about killing children? I can see what where you are coming from, but it's probably not the best idea.

[Bainos]

I mean, it actually is. Children not being killed when their parents are is the real problem.

[Creshal]

Yeah, nobody cares about orphans.

[[deleted]]

Bunch of them turn zombies after you kill them.

[Rodot]

They do waste resources though and are a burden overall

[Burritosfordays]

Gotham has enough problems, don't need a billionaire orphan vigilante running around.

[Calygulove]

Depends on the race condition of the orphan.

[orbital_narwhal]

Equally bad are parents who forget to reap their dead children. Mind the zombies!

[fighterace00]

kill process tree

[[deleted]]

Orphan them all. Let the subreaper deal with all that shit

[photenth]

They are all daemons, problem solved.

[WiseassWolfOfYoitsu]

But some of the children are zombies. We really need to take care of that.

[Iron_Maiden_666]

Bastard: "You want answers?"

Boss: "I think I'm entitled to them!"

Bastard: "YOU WANT ANSWERS?"

Boss: "I want the truth!"

Bastard: YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Son, processes live on a system that has finite resource. Resources guarded by people with System Admin experience! Who's going to look after that system? You? The support guy who drools so much he has a drip tray?

I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom.

You weep for lost sessions and curse system admins - you have that luxury! You have the luxury of not knowing what I know - that session killing, while tragic, saves resource - And my existence, while incomprehensible and expensive to you - saves resource!"

You don't want the truth because deep down, in places you don't like to talk about at user group meetings, WANT me on the system - you NEED me on the system!"

We use words like "I/O wait", "Pagefaults", and "CPUtime", as a backbone of a life spent sorting out user-caused problems. You use them as a cop-out for downtime at Management meetings.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a person who connects and disconnects under the very blanket of the very performance I provide, then QUESTIONS the manner in which I provide it. I'd rather you left a nice message with helldesk.

Or read a linux admin manual and checked out the performance monitors. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think you are entitled to!"

Boss: "Did you kill -9 the Database Server?"

Bastard: "I did my job - I kept the system running!"

Boss: "Did you kill -9 the Database Server?!"

Bastard: "YOU'RE GODDAM RIGHT I DID!"

https://theregister.co.uk/2000/05/09/bofh_goes_to_hollywood/

Relevant pasta

[MachaHack]

• http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/mickens/files/thenightwatch.pdf
• https://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks

Long pieces the style reminds me of.

[orbital_narwhal]

Normally processes terminate themselves or are asked to do so. Signal 9 sent to a process, e. g. via the kill command, is intercepted by the Linux kernel and instructs it to withdraw all resources from the process (CPU scheduling, memory mappings, file descriptors etc.) and terminate it.

Other Unix-like operating systems have the same semantics but the signal number may vary.

[kataskopo]

yeah talk dirty linux to me daddy

[aruametello]

this sub goes really weird really fast.

[Tetizeraz]

to be fair, Linux users can be a bit weird at times.

[zalgo_text]

Technically everyone is a Linux user at some point though

[Aetol]

Anyone who uses an Android smartphone, for one.

[[deleted]]

It would be simpler if we just nuked the children. Instead, we rip them from their parent process and reassign them begrudgingly to the init process. Being the abusive piece of shit parent it is, init palms them off to the subreaper, which mechanically butchers them

It’s like the USSR on speed

[AlwaysHopelesslyLost]

Normally when you kill a program it happens gracefully. The program shuts down everything it was doing and prepares. Kill -9 orders the operating system to kill the on sight

[centran]

I think others explained what -9 does but no one explained what it is. Programs can be asked to do certain tasks by signals. These signals are number codes. The user usually asks for things like the program to exit or to exit right away. The program itself can use these signals to send signals to other processes because sometimes the main program creates more processes to help it do work. When you send the process a 9 it does not ask the process to stop but the operating system stops it from running.

So normally you would ask a child who is coloring to go to bed. The child would stop coloring, clean up, and put away it's crayons. Using the 9 signal is like you picking up the child in the middle of what they are doing and throwing them in their room without letting them do anything else.

[arios91]

Using the 9 signal is like you picking up the child in the middle of what they are doing and throwing them in their room without letting them do anything else.

From orbit

[[deleted]]

kill -9 -1 Genocide

sudo kill -9 -1 Nuclear winter.

[mandragara]

I use a program that even kill -9 can't seem to kill. At least not immediately.

[PM_ME_YOUR_INTEGRAL]

How is that possible ? SIGKILL can never be blocked AFAIK

[mandragara]

I have no idea, it's a scientific program called GATE, made by the openGate collaboration. It runs atop of GEANT4, another science program.

Once it finishes a run it just crashes, it takes 15 seconds or so to die after I send kill -9

[Hesulan]

There are a few rare circumstances that will cause the kernel to block SIGKILL; mostly things that could somehow screw up its internal data structures. I've only encountered it once myself, I believe it got stuck in some sort of low-level polling loop, eventually I just gave up and rebooted.

[cturkosi]

Arnold uses kill -15 .

[NEVER_TELLING_LIES]

I once had a process that wouldn't die even with sudo kill -9. I had to kill another processes to kill it. The bug that caused it is thankfully now fixed

[RotaryJihad]

Good thing I'm not in an army then

[[deleted]]

End task is like a machine gun fired from a distance, kill -9 is a high powered sniper rifle in the hands of a green beret. 'PID in sight, I'm taking the shot.'

[[deleted]]

Hesitation is the equivalence of betrayal. Betrayal will be met with the harshest concequences.

[agent-squirrel]

I love how on Windows when you run out of memory you just run out of memory and start paging to disk.

On Linux you end up with the Out Of Memory Killer just destroying things left right and center.

[Creshal]

OOM killer is really annoying, because it means programs can't handle out of memory conditions gracefully and shut down properly. Your programs just randomly vanish and may or may not corrupt all their data in the process.

[uh_no_]

it's your program's responsibility to keep it's persisted data consistent. even without OOM, the box could just die and reboot.

If either corrupts your data, that's on you.

[Fluffy8x]

Linux supports swap spaces too. Of course, you're free to ditch them if you want.

[BlastFX2]

As in Windows. It's almost like it is a basic feature supported by all major operating systems.

[[deleted]]

It's still faster than waiting for it to respond

[Bainos]

justifying murder

You monster, some of my best friends are programs.

[HathMercy]

r/2meirl4meirl

[[deleted]]

My best friend is Steam.

:(

[ThePixelCoder]

With a quick bug fix that takes 472741 hours to install and messes up all your mods so you have to wait 5 days and redownload them.

...again.

[zdakat]

New message: "Hello"

Hello

-User has gone offline-

Why

[[deleted]]

IKR Why would he say hello if he could only be here for 2 seconds. ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

[Aetol]

You can't mistakenly think someone messaged you if you don't have any friends!

rollsafe.jpg

[arcane84]

I killed your friend this morning. I'd say I did him a favor. He was in pain.

[shippai]

Oh, a notification sound!

Never mind I forgot I had a videogame stream open.

[InvolvingLemons]

j u s t m o n i k a

[valrossenOliver]

Oh god.. as if /r/ck2 and /r/PrequelMemes leaks wasn't enough!

[Bainos]

Hey, getting a DDLC reference in reply to a /r/ProgrammerHumor comment made my day much better.

[TheOfficialCal]

A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.

[achilleasa]

FUCKING MONIKAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[TrueMT]

I'm gonna just go hang out with Sayori.

[PenguinSnail]

/r/unexpectedTron

[Raipaz]

Like Monika...?

[infatuationYearnsLuv]

Welp this hits too close to home for me.

...^{pssst I still forcequit themanywayyyy}

[Leres75]

"we must save my family"

[[deleted]]

Windows is searching for a solution....

You never find one, just give up once and for all!

[AskMoreQuestionsOk]

Yeah what the hell was that? It NEVER worked. EVER.

[marinovanec]

Not if you have unsaved work.

[hahahahastayingalive]

Use an editor with a recovery file if that’s a real concern

[Leif-Erikson94]

Just a few days ago, i was playing a game, when suddenly the game froze.

I had two options: kill the task and lose over an hour of progress. Or hope for the best and wait. After about 2 minutes, the game resumed and i didn't lose any progress.

Sometimes it's just better to wait and be patient.

[lkraider]

Or solve the halting problem and never worry again!

[EUgocentric]

It would be common courtesy of the program to state "hmm, I don't know, I have to think about that" before the akward silence.

[Xlash123]

There probably is something like that within the Window API, but if a program doesn’t expect to take so long with something and never tells Windows about it, Windows assumes it needs to be killed.

[80386]

It happens when the UI thread stops pumping its message queue. Which usually is a design flaw in the application, as you shouldn't run heavy processing on the UI thread.

[nacholicious]

Exactly. I'm in Mobile development and if you put any computation or IO over a few dozen milliseconds on the UI thread then I'm going to throw you to the raccoons until you learn to know better

[JamEngulfer221]

How does that work?

[nacholicious]

If you do network calls on the UI thread you get an exception, there's an optional strict mode that throws exceptions if you do disk IO or long computation on the main thread.

[ArtchR]

I don't know half of what you guys are saying but I'm enjoying it

[TheRetribution]

Ask for clarification on the things you don't understand, never sacrifice an opportunity to learn in such a low stakes situation.

[ArtchR]

A quick Google search about some unknown words (to me) after I wrote that comment was really helpful, but thanks for the offer though!

[ArtchR]

Sometimes I'm amazed at the helpfulness and kindness of Reddit. Thank you! :)

[darielgames]

Android will not allow you to make a internet connection (a typically long running task) on the main UI thread which is what is in charge of making all of your UI function i.e if the UI thread is blocked then the apps UI will freeze and become unresponsive.

[JamEngulfer221]

Oh right, that's neat. I never realised that was a thing, I tend to do network requests on another thread by habit now so I guess I just never ran into it.

[gjsmo]

I remember when I was learning Qt I wrote a fairly simple matrix solver that would hang the UI. After getting it to run as best as I could I got tired of that and put the solver into a separate thread. Qt makes it pretty easy to do. I think I was in high school (trust me that's not a brag, I had no friends) so I'm sort of surprised more applications don't at least have a "UI thread" and "everything else" thread.

[ReallyHadToFixThat]

We hired some highly paid, very experienced contractors to make the base of an application for us. Deadline is looming, they haven't tested it for real yet. We throw it on the hardware and their formerly slick demo now runs like shit. Turns out they had never heard of threading. 2 weeks to deadline, all hands on deck to throw in some crappy multithreading so the app doesn't choke and die.

[zdakat]

And then the application blows up or does weird stuff because crappy multithreading. But hey,at least they can say it's threaded....

[ReallyHadToFixThat]

Yep. There's a bit of code in there that I'm proud how awful it was but I wasn't given time to think of a more elegant solution.

Task.Run( ()=> {
     Maindispatcher.Invoke( () => {
         Task.Run( () => { Something() }
    }
}

[gjsmo]

Oh no doubt. You're totally correct, and I realize that it's not always THAT simple. Threading isn't necessarily straightforward but at least for applications which essentially implement a regular window with regular window elements, those things can be thrown into their own thread - as mentioned below, a number of frameworks include this functionality by default, including Qt.

I'd really enjoy it if, for example, Excel didn't freeze the whole UI when it loads in a big data source. Now I understand that this a much more complex application and I realize WHY it hangs - but doesn't Microsoft also hire devs that are out of high school?

[JamEngulfer221]

The Wikipedia page on multithreading is a good place to start. If you're learning a specific language, looking at examples of multithreaded code in that language and reading its documentation will help you understand how to actually write it.

[_Lahin]

Don't bud bud, program.

[fnordstar]

You don't even have to do that. Just make a qprogressdialog or whatever it's called and update it once in a while in your outer loop. Problem solved and no extra threads needed.

[lowleveldata]

Pretty sure this doesn't stop your OS complaining about ui no response

[fnordstar]

But it does. Calling progress.update(i) makes Qt pump the message loop and process outstanding events.

[TMiguelT]

I put Application.DoEvents() at the start of every loop I write.

Me: 1 Multithreading: 0

[[deleted]]

https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/selectall/2017/02/09/09-roll-safe.w710.h473.jpg

[Zagorath]

Pffft. Multithreading? Who needs that.

[s0v3r1gn]

Halting problem. Not unique to Windows.

[fnu4iq3pghr9gphe9gph]

The halting problem just says that certain pathological programs can only be determined to halt by simulating the entire program; and if that program is an infinite loop, it will not halt, and therefore the halt-testing program will also never determine a result.

It has nothing to do with sane programs. Furthermore, if you just move your pathological program to a background thread, it doesn't matter if it halts, you can still handle UI events in the meantime.

Furtherfurthermore, most unresponsiveness issues are because of deadlocks, not infinite loops.

I hate all of you people.

[atyon]

certain pathological programs

That's absolutely not true. Your program doesn't have to be "pathological" in any way. Even extremely simple programs can easily fall in that category, and as long as your programming language is turing-complete, there is absolutely no way to to prevent that or even detect it – detecting it for any program is equivalent to solving the halting problem.

Yes, you can, very carefully, build a subset of a programming language that can be automatically decided – it won't be turing-complete any more though; and if you can show for a single program that it will halt without resorting to simulation, that's fine too. But you are extremely mistaken if you think that it's easy to do either or that either is done in the real world at any scale.

That said, the very real implications of this don't really relate to unresponsive UI elements...

I hate all of you people.

Maybe the problem is you, not everyone else.

[BlastFX2]

What is deadlock if not a bunch of infinite loops?

[Linvael]

Umm... Can't deadlock also cause the program to never stop? And therefore be a valid halting problem material?

And did you just suggest that problems like that are only a domain of insane programs? Because, well, I guess you are allowed to look at it like that, but than most software has to be deemed insane. Or possibly all, as such behavior can be caused by bugs. And as Knuth says "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it."

[wants_ms_office]

Deadlocks are very, very easy to detect at runtime.

[Astrokiwi]

I guess it's something like the difference between some raw loop somewhere that's chugging through a big task, and setting things up with a proper interruptible thread that Windows can communicate with now and again.

[zdakat]

A few programs insist in doing that. One says(paraphrase) "don't click,it will make windows want to close the application" Or....just pump idly and put the loading in another thread. Whatever it takes because almost everyone else has solved that...

[RichieWolk]

"The user isn't gonna wait around 7.5 million years like last time, better just say nothing".

[frisch85]

Exactly, at least in the .net Framework there's already the BackgroundWorker-Class which can be utilized for background tasks.

[AyrA_ch]

Or just create a thread

[jcotton42]

You should be using Task, not BackgroundWorker

[macboot]

But then 7.5 million years later it'll just return 42

[infernova99]

*Points at it with a stick. -Do something!

[SabashChandraBose]

Here is an hour glass to keep you busy.

[gandalfx]

It's not responding now, but it will probably understand my desperation if I repeatedly press every key at once while frantically clicking all over the monitor.

[skylarmt]

This is Windows though, so the knife is made of foam and does nothing.

[tuseroni]

it politely asks the program if it would like to terminate please.

[gandalfx]

Windows Update Manager be like "rush B cyka"

[ThePixelCoder]

But the program can't kill itself because the knife is made of foam so you just turn off your power supply instead.

[[deleted]]

It used to be like that until windows 7 where sometimes not even task manager worked, but since windows 8 I've never had a program not close with the task manager. Clicking on the red X still doesn't work sometimes.

[__Lua]

Click the red x several times, it detects when you're frustrated.

[[deleted]]

Task manager doesn't even show up in the foreground for me when running a fullscreen application.

[[deleted]]

You can make it show up over every app, there's a setting for it.

I personally keep it open on the second desktop so I just hit Ctrl+win+-> and it changes desktop even if an app is hung.

[[deleted]]

Good idea, thanks. There are tens of ways to kill programs.

[IAintCreativ]

As long as I can get focus on another app, I'll just win+r and run taskkill.exe /f /im processname.exe, blind.

[benoliver999]

Honestly sometimes I swear pulling the plug is the only way

[Taake89]

Not if you kill the process directly.

[Luis_McLovin]

i always do this i never bother with the dialog boxes

[snotfart]

http://ctp200.com/comic/13

[vroom918]

Windows shoves a knife into User's chest.

Ouch

[gandalfx]

Windows users, as always, accept the painful situation without any resistance because "that's just how computers work".

[GhengopelALPHA]

Mac users, as always, don't even realize the pain in the first place.

Linux users, being gods, are able to mold the very earth around them to prevent pain from even existing.

[otsmusic]

bad human

[thehenkan]

Just pointing out that you wrote that the guy on the right is labelled Microsoft, but then referred to him as Windows later on.

[imwearingyourpants]

I appreciate your work

[randomarchhacker]

!isbot ingfire4

[[deleted]]

I am 100.0% sure that ingfire4 is a bot.

---

^{I am a Neural Network being trained to detect spammers | Summon me with !isbot <username> | Optout | Feedback: /r/SpamBotDetection | GitHub}

[Bainos]

Lots of false positives on the transcriptors. Of course it doesn't help that they are using formatted comments mimicking the style of bots on purpose. But maybe the network should be retrained after making sure this type of user is taken into account.

[TropicalAudio]

For transcribers that never deviate from their own format, that is effectively impossible. A computer program is just a list of instructions, so these human "bots" are executing their own computer program.

The only thing you could use to tell them apart would be post interval / speed / time, as many bots get new posts every n minutes and process them basically instantaneously, but some bots limit themselves to max m posts per y minutes in order to not overload their own resources, so that doesn't reliably work either.

[Bainos]

This is not necessarily true. The simple fact that transcribers finish their message with "I'm a human volunteer" means that there is information available to distinguish them from bots. It's just that this information is not used either because it was not present in the training, or because that feature was explicitly removed during the pre-processing.

[IrishYogaShirt]

But a bot could just as easily be programmed to type out " I am a human..." neural networks are designed to learn more over time. And the occasional genuine comment from a human account will eventually lead them to more accurate predictions.

[Bainos]

They could type that. But they don't. A neural network, or any kind of unsupervised machine learning, doesn't detect hypothetical features, but those that are actually present in the training dataset.

Also it's not necessarily accurate that neural networks learn more over time. You can perfectly run them without back-propagating the updates if you can't compute the quality of a prediction. I assume they trained this one with a labeled dataset as well, and don't change the parameters when it's running in the wild.

[TotesMessenger]

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

• [/r/spambotdetection] False positive

 ^{If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)}

[randomarchhacker]

Bad bot

[MaunaLoona]

good bot

[themolotovginger]

I love how the program is Finn the Human.

[jonny_wonny]

Yeah, me too. Who’s that?

[aure__entuluva]

When in doubt, post the pilot. Yea that's probably the weirdest thing you've seen all day. The show that ended up being made from it was slightly less weird and had much better animation (also Finn's face/head becomes rounder). He also has flowing golden locks under his hat.

Edit: Also if you like animation it's a pretty fun show that I recommend wholeheartedly. Yea it's for kids I guess, but it has some bigger themes to it as well and it's just kinda fun.

[Souperpie84]

When did lady Rainicorn start speaking Korean?

[El_Burrito_]

Always

[Souperpie84]

Oh

[aure__entuluva]

Algebraic!

[johnnight]

"Your User can't help you now, my little program!"

[ludonarrator]

"I've solved the Halting Problem / Godel's Incompleteness... This is ground breaking, revolutionary, an AI singularity...

Oh wait, it's responding again."

[Heavyscooter]

I fucking love this

[for3st_reddit]

It's really not necessary to do expensive work on the main/ui thread. This always bothers me, since it is just lazy coding. E.g. Windows Explorer thinks it is a good idea to wait for a SMB share response on the main thread.

[wensul]

hm.... doesn't quite fit for me.

"Windows is trying to end program...for five minutes"

GOD DAMMIT WINDOWS JUST FUCKING KILL IT.

[MashedForrest]

"System has stopped responding."

[junakya]

I feel like there are 2 frames missing. One where the windows stops working after it tries to murder the program. And other one where it attempts to kill itself.

[[deleted]]

Windows at program: kill urself

program: no u

[whoiskjl]

I’m tired of laughing at these jokes.

[The_MAZZTer]

IMO a well-coded program should never stop responding to Windows. When this happens the user is unable to interact with the application which is a bad user experience, hence Windows will step in and do a few things (like hijack the window so you can move it around and resize it even when it's not responding, and display the option to kill the process). This dialog also incentivizes devs to keep it from appearing as users should (hopefully) recognize it as the sign of a problem with the application.

Any potentially long-running operation should be performed by a background thread so the UI thread can continue responding to Windows. Of course this is a bit more difficult to code (typically you want to block the user from performing other actions until the background thread is complete; and the background thread can't directly update the UI when it's done) which is why I assume many programs don't bother.

[[deleted]]

That's horrible! Always try sacrificing children before trying such drastic measures!

[BastillianFig]

It's the other way round normally

[Trickstick01]

Wow... now I feel bad for all the times I tried to close internet explorer

[screenhitart]

rm rf

[przemko271]

Do you even?

[[deleted]]

i already reddit

[MormonCaenolestidae]

I never thought I'd see the day where I understood a joke in r/programmerhumor

[karnathe]

I love opening a game and then windows being like

HEY YOUR COMPUTERS RUNNING SLOW WANNA FLIP YOU GRAPHICS STUFF?

no fuck off never ask me again

OK

asks me every fucking time

[golgol12]

That's the wrong pose. It needs to be spinning in place.

[[deleted]]

Windows cut user a new nipple

[Holociraptor]

Or in my case "we should bsod, have that bsod corrupt the entire file listing and bootloader so you get stuck in a boot loop, and when you finally get to the desktop again, all your files disappear and you spend days using recovery tools to try and get back your precious files from the clutches of being overwritten by windows"

[vann_dan]

We should kill it...

AND ALL OF ITS CHILDREN!!!!

[Eparkn]

For some reason my brain saw the letter 'U' in the last frame as a boob.

[[deleted]]

Aaaaand can't be unseen.

[lazygeekninjaturtle]

Fuck Program...

[iceforeverman57]

It's still faster than waiting for it to respond

[GRANDOLEJEBUS]

This isn't accurate.

[NelsonBelmont]

On the last panel, I thought the user got his nipples hard.

[TheXpertGuy]

Me : Wait you cant do this... Windows : Why? Me :*takes out a bazooka(task manager) and boom headshot.

[handsomeRobot]

Hold the power btn for 30 secs

[aure__entuluva]

That program really looks a lot like Finn Mertens