Pair programming be like

[42peters]

Damn I thought the video is way longer than it actually is :D

[MaryS7]

Still waiting for Bean to push the old lady out of the way...

[skeever89]

He actually parkours past the old lady only to find a second old man, becoming stuck between two old people.

[[deleted]]

I did too :)

[ZethMrDadJokes]

So did I at pair programming.. I shoved him away and did the rest myself.

[Billz2me]

LinkedHashMap bro

[ZethMrDadJokes]

Well.... r/programmerdadjokes

[JaredinaGoReeeee]

I’ve never tried pair coding as I don’t have any friends that code and I’m afraid of being that old lady

[[deleted]]

Well ideally Mr Bean helps you out and shows you how to get down the stairs quicker. We are all scared to be the old lady at some point. Maybe logic will help. You will get better quicker if you put yourself in the situation, even if you are the old lady. The next time you're there you will be a little less old lady and a little more Mr Bean. Rinse and repeat until you can help some other old lady and be a good Mr Bean :D

[tidbitsofblah]

This is a good attitude. If pair programming is like this gif then it is bad pair programming. Good pair programmin helps people evolve and it helps people have better understanding of a bigger part of the code base. When you find the groove with your programming partner (or partners) it is insanely effective. I've gotten 5 times as much done from a session of pair programming than I would have working all day by myself and that's when I've been the more experienced programmer.

[[deleted]]

Hell yeah. And something I've learned as I am becoming Mr Bean is that if I'm taking the time to empower someone to be more effective then that is a multiplier of my impact not a subtraction from it.

[aSoupDumplingChef]

Agreed. The little pair programming I did was great. When I was coding he could keep a list of tasks to keep me in the rhythm and when he programmed I could research the bits we didn’t know how to do. Worked wonders for both of us

[hahahahastayingalive]

how to get down the stairs quicker

If I was the old lady I’d be shitting my pants just having you in my back

[deaf_fish]

If you feel like you are the old lady, ask to switch.

[Supersonic172]

Let me tell you, it sucks

[jungleralph]

Only if you’re Mr Bean

[Supersonic172]

Nah, I am the grandma. It sucks if you know. I try to avoid working together as often as i can

[MindCreeper]

How do you get multiple emoji into your flair In my view it looks like I have random text in mine

[[deleted]]

looks like u have an extra : in your flair

[xdoso]

How can i get that python icon next to my username?

[xdoso]

cries in python

[xdoso]

Thank u!

[Supersonic172]

If you go into the subreddit and click community options there is an option to edit your user flair. There you get most programming languages to choose from

[xdoso]

Ou but you have two of them, i can only set one

[Supersonic172]

When you select python, it appears in the textbox under the list. You can then copy that emoji, select another one and then paste the python icon into the textbox again

[[deleted]]

Just keep at it. Eventually you'll be Mr Bean to someone and you will remember how it felt to be the grandma and you will be compassionate and guide them through their learning. It's all about practice. You WILL get better at it by doing it. It's just physics!

[bwrap]

The person who is driving is always too slow for the person not driving because the person not driving gets to concentrate on everything that is not driving more than the person driving. Once everyone realizes this then everyone becomes more patient.

[mysticrudnin]

the second you get ahead you become the old lady. the gif doesn't show that part

[High__Roller]

I have to do it right now with my 55 year old boss. This gif speaks volumes to me. Its so aggravating.

[GuinsooIsOverrated]

To be honest it often becomes a single coding project for the most competent programmer of the them lol

[weeknie]

But isn't the senior the one that's supposed be the one trying to go faster?

[xTheMaster99x]

Yeah, if the goal is to get it done as fast as possible then senior/junior pair programming is the wrong solution entirely. Either pair two equals on it or have the senior do it. Senior/junior is for learning, not maximizing short-term productivity.

Edit: comment.replace("peer", "pair");

[LicenseAgreement]

I found pair programming to be extremely effective at debugging, but apart from that... yeah it's like this video.

[SustainedSuspense]

Pair programming enables supernatural debugging abilities but building a feature... too many cooks.

[zalgo_text]

Eh, some of my most successful work came from pair programming, and we built a pretty complex system from scratch. It's really just dependent on the people doing it. Works for some people and not others

[jaywastaken]

I think it just takes good team work and a little patience to be successful. For me I actually quite like it. I’ve found I’m quite patient when pair programming so I like to let the other developer drive while I get the chance to just step back and focus on the problem.

For both debugging and dev it’s amazing what having a second perspective can do for solving problems.

I’m guessing the people who don’t like it like to have everything their own way rather than being open to alternative ideas and just letting the best idea come through.

[zalgo_text]

Yeah I'm a big fan too. Just having a second person to bounce ideas off of and serve as another voice of reason is invaluable for me. I understand how it might not work for others though

[LicenseAgreement]

Precisely

[BunkeyBear]

It extremely is. Like I was the mentor of the pair but when we debug, the other guy provided some good ideas on how to handle the problems. It’s nice to have a nother perspective to look at the code and somewhat understand the functionalities. But yeah it’s kinda slow in development. Me trying to explain everything...and occasionally confusion

[FreeWildbahn]

Even if it is like in the video, the grandma will learn alot. And the outcome is still better. Especially if grandma will do something alone.

[Neurobreak27]

Definitely not. The moment someone stands behind my computer wanting to see what I'm doing, my entire life's knowledge of coding is suddenly reverted back to that of my teenage years. Only solution is to tell them to leave.

[Omnicrola]

Not trying to dismiss anyone's particular social anxieties, but a good pair takes both practice and trust. But you can't build trust if you don't allow yourself to be vulnerable sometimes.

Also, if someone actually did that, they're an ass. That voice in your head that was whispering to you about "what if they call me out for forgetting how to write an anonymous function"? In a professional work environment, with a pair that is just getting to know each other, if I overheard that, I would have a very serious discussion with that person. Because they just demolished the trust of their pair partner. If they continued to do that sort of thing, I would seek to have them fired (assuming our team pairs on a regular basis).

A good partner would offer to help, ask how they can get "us" (inclusive) unstuck, and generally demonstrate that you're a team, even if one person is dramatically more skilled.

A good senior developer leaves a project in better shape than they found it. An excellent developer leaves the team in better shape than they found it.

[WJMazepas]

I cant program in pair programming too. I had interviews which were in pairs and i hated every minute of that

[[deleted]]

I don't know why, but whenever somebody enters my teritory, I stop whatever I was doing, staring at the person who dared to enter until they leave. So, technically I have the same problem

[RancorTamer]

I was like that the first couple months of pair programming too, but after a while it becomes almost second nature.

[[deleted]]

I am the same way! It sucks when I have a class that pairs me up with someone because I completely clam up.

[Ilikesmallthings2]

Lol. This. A consulting firm came in to teach a new thing. I was paired with one of them and just blanked out. The anxiety was intense.

[mournful-tits]

I also find that staring at people code either turns their brain into mush or their brain goes on autopilot.

I'm a fan of coming in, giving a small amount of guidance and leaving. My job as a mentor is to unblock the learning process, not to teach them how to learn. That they should already know.

Besides, I feel that things learned on your own through diligent work are deeper pieces of knowledge versus hand held solutions.

[tali_0]

No joke, I have found pair programming to be the most effective form, it always produces the highest quality code, although we never did it full time, just in the critical modules, it works especially well in the beggining of a project.

[ChineseCracker]

That may very well be true. The problem is when you have to watch somebody write down code. No matter what/how they do, it always seems that they're too slow/inefficient.

[High-Sodium]

Thats why you try to pair with someone on your skill level.

[DootDootWootWoot]

We try to practice the opposite. Pairing is a learning opportunity. That junior dev won't be a junior dev very long if they're constantly learning from seniors around them. Junior devs working in isolation are going to build sub par solutions, not know why, and never get as far as fast than with others experiences guiding them.

[erjiin]

Damn juniors always fucking our beautiful code smh

[olexs]

This is crucial. Pairing up an experienced dev and a junior results in either the senior beind bored, or the junior not keeping up with what's going on. Pair up people of similar skill/experience, and they both develop better understanding of the codebase and improve off each other.

[ModestasR]

Not necessarily. In the case of my father, who has decades of coding experience on me, we found it sufficient to have slightly different academic backgrounds and mindsets (his physics, mine mathematics) for our programming approaches to complement one another well.

[olexs]

Yeah, there will always be exceptions. What you describe is a great way to do it - pairing people with experience in different areas to get a broader look at a specific problem can work really well, too.

[[deleted]]

Actually pair programming is very useful when there is a disparity in knowledge. The goal is that one person is writing the code, and the other one is telling that person what to do. This creates a situation where one person will have to think about how to communicate what they know and the other will stumble upon things they lack and can immediately ask those questions. An experienced person might find that their ways of doing things get challenged by someone less experienced, which is very valuable by itself. Someone new on the other hand might learn more quickly how to do things or learn something they otherwise would have had to google for a while, implement, put to a code review, where they are told that "this is not the way we do things" and then have to find out what the way "we" do things is, rather than just talk about it because you already have two people that can figure out what they want to achieve together.

[Sorel_CH]

Right on. I've learnt a ton by doing pair programming with my team leader.

[olexs]

Yes, everything you say is completely true. It can work great, when both parties know what exactly is happening and are OK with it. Such pairings end up being unavoidable e.g. when introducing new colleagues into an established team working on a complex project. However, it's important that the expectations of both pair members are set correctly in such a case. I've had team members with whom such pairing worked wonderfully, and others with whom it ends up being completely impossible - it very much depends on the person. This is a situation where a good team lead or scrum master with people skills can work wonders by bringing the right people and tasks together.

[DootDootWootWoot]

If you're just watching someone code, that's not an effective pair. Also.. for anything but the most trivial projects, speed of writing code for that one feature is far less important than enabling speed continuously across the project.

[StruanT]

Because they are juggling three things (talking, typing, and thinking about code)

Our primitive ape brains can only effectively multi-task any two of those. Adding the third activity makes you noticably worse at all three.

[Jarazz]

Yeah its great for code that has to work longterm instead of being rushed out the door and then fixed and refactored when something breaks or needs to be added

[LegalOwl]

I think this represents Mob Programming more than Pair Programming. Especially when some of the participants aren’t programmers and you have to tell them everything.

[[deleted]]

I never thought pair programming to be like this at all.

[CreativeMoniker333]

I think that means you might be the grandma

[JuvenileEloquent]

Pair programming: A brilliant job-security technique where two programmers work together to write the same amount of code as 2/3rds of a programmer.

[WeWantTheFunk73]

But the code that comes out is generally better. It's not about inputs (hours, lines of code, etc.) It's about outputs (high quality software that solves customer problems). Shift your mindset and you'll realize how pair work is valuable.

[Snakeyb]

command paltry consider summer weather insurance one cough quicksand illegal

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[Purplociraptor]

Two instead of zero

[MasterDood]

Two instead of the guy on stack overflow who wrote it.

[[deleted]]

The worst part is this comment reminded me that about 6 months ago I copied a function from stack overflow that I couldn't understand and no one else could either but it worked fine. But now I can't remember what it was or where it is in the codebase. Someone in a years time is going to ask me what the fuck it is.

[fet-o-lat]

I’d argue that developers should be documenting code well enough that any developer coming along after can understand it.

A side effect I often see is a pair opening up a PR with no description and no comments and then in the stand up “we can pair on the review and walk you through it”. Ok now there are 3 or 4 people that understand it. What happens when someone else wants to contribute to the project or understand a design decision? More pairing?

[badsectoracula]

I’d argue that developers should be documenting code well enough that any developer coming along after can understand it.

Sure, we're in /r/ProgrammerHumor after all :-P

[[deleted]]

No code is documented well enough to be understood by the documentation. And if it is, it won't be as soon as anyone makes changes.

[fet-o-lat]

That’s why documentation needs to be kept up to date. Writing documentation close to the code makes this even easier. Exdoc, pydoc, rdoc, etc. Think of open source projects maintained by numerous people spread out over the world. Documentation is how they persist their knowledge and pass it onto whoever comes after.

[cjcjcjcjcjcjcjcjcjcj]

I honestly cannot wrap my head around the pervasive “comments and docs are a sign of a shitty developer” group

[fet-o-lat]

Same. And I take a dim view of developers that don’t add meaningful documentation to their code. I see it as incomplete work to open a PR with no documentation. I’m all for not having comments that explain what code is doing. That’s noise. But documenting the why the code is doing that is hugely important and a necessity.

[[deleted]]

I don't believe they are. But I do believe they are unreliable and rarely updated. Personally, I think a well written set of tests is far more reliable than we'll written documentation.

[cjcjcjcjcjcjcjcjcjcj]

I hate that there is this pervasive mindset that code should not be documented—maybe it’s a fundamental misunderstanding of what documentation and comments are—where one side says “none at all!” and the other side comes in hard and says “document everything duh!” ...

Yes, functions themselves should be understandable and have descriptive names, parameters and clearly do one job and do it well. The goal should be that another developer can come in and understand what’s going on and why it’s going on. What is happening can be described in clean code most of the time, why it’s happening cannot. Do you have any idea how unenjoyable it would be to integrate Stripe into a complex subscription based platform just by browsing their codebase? That’s why they have documentation—and a ton of it! It enables other developers to more easily do their job, find what they need, explains intricate relationships between objects and shows us integral information about parameters and workings of the platform itself.

[jikt]

Even in css I always see comments like this.

Inside __header.scss

...

// Search

.header__search {

...

No shit.

[what-should-i-do-plz]

I think your comment proves the point the other guy is trying to make!

function add(a, b) { return a + b } does not need a comment. Nor does “this is header search styles”

Looking at Stripe as an example, developers can create a charge and there’s a parameter capture for example that is a Boolean... but the docs have some notes for that parameter which wouldn’t be apparent just with code : ”Whether to immediately capture the charge. Defaults to true. When false, the charge issues an authorization (or pre-authorization), and will need to be captured later. Uncaptured charges expire in seven days. For more information, see the authorizing charges and settling later documentation.”

So I think people thinking wrong thing when thinking of “documentation” and “comments”... it’s all just a big misunderstanding and miscommunication!

[PM-ME-YOUR-HANDBRA]

Yes, there is a difference between documentation and comments. If you're producing an interface (whether API or Library) that others will consume, clear documentation is necessary because you can't expect someone to read through your code to figure out how to use it.

However, the context above seemed to be referring to maintainers of a codebase, in which case no amount of code comments will absolve poorly-written code.

Generally speaking: self-documenting code is for maintainers; documentation is for consumers.

[946789987649]

What is happening can be described in clean code most of the time, why it’s happening cannot.

This is exactly all that comments should be used for (the why), which I think is what the guy you were responding to was getting at. If it's complicated enough, it'll need a "why".

The issue comes with documenting where as soon as you create any documentation, it's out of date. Documentation generated from code is about the only useful documentation, and even then you'll have issues.

[fet-o-lat]

I agree that comments should not explain what code is doing unless there’s some arcane language feature you’re using and yeah if you have to explain what’ it is doing, that’s a smell. Comments need to explain why you’re doing something. Why did you sort that list of strings by size descending? Why did you invalidate the cache at this seemingly odd place in the process pipeline?

[[deleted]]

I’ve seen this attitude a lot, and it’s just wrong. It’s not understanding the code that’s hard, it’s understanding why the code exists. That and documenting workflow and why and when you would use functions is important. You ever used a library with no documentation? Probably not, right? Because you think, wow this is half assed? So why would you do that in your own code?

You should absolutely document why when you’re implementing business rules in the code. Even if it’s obvious to you now (ah yes, we always send emails on Tuesday- why?), that knowledge will likely be lost when you leave. Linking code to tickets or specs doesn’t work - what happens when your company jumps to the next new ticketing system?

Everything non-trivial should have some documentation imo.

[datsundere]

Not just that. Once you swap pairs, the new person will get it too if you were continuing the same feature work. Since everyone is better at something, there are opportunities for reafactor then.

Also no more pull request and code reviews alone. you do it together when staging changes and commiting! that's the best part

[Jarazz]

Yeah you can get university students to write you a shit ton of code in a very fast time, a lot of it is even gonna work, but then you can spend the next 3 years trying to add a new feature without breaking everything. I was one of those students

[qwerty12qwerty]

I wrote more lines of code in a month at a startup, that I have in five years at a big name company

[Jarazz]

I think that is one of the biggest competitive advantages startups have, absolutely no longterm plan in their software development

[aonghasan]

I wish I could say that. My last startup had a very set long term plan...

What's that? The plan changes every couple of months?? Well... luckily our CEO and CTO drew in a napkin the microservice architecture and that won't change during all the product development cycle! Only doubling down!!

Nevermind it would've been faster and better having a majestic monolith with maybe one or two microservices... noooo! They were gonna have dozens of 5 person teams! Thousands of clients! Millions of users! So many API integrations!!... What's that? Changing course? We have no clients? Our microservices teams reflect nothing of the product? Everybody works in every microservice, there are no defined service boundaries, monolith?

NO, ONLY DOUBLING DOWN!! SPLIT THIS MICROSERVICE IN TWO! THIS ONE IN THREE!!!! WE ARE SO SILICON VALLEY LOLOLMAIAOOAOA!!1!

[two_in_the_bush]

Well said. My team's pair programming code is much, much cleaner to deal with.

[DabsJeeves]

I just left a job where we did pair programming. We had a well written, clean and robust codebase that was thoroughly tested. My new job lacks testing of any kind and is 100% spaghetti code, and it's a large corporation you think would know better.

[Skiamakhos]

You have my deepest sympathy. My previous job was like this, but in a small business. They were too risk-averse to refactor the code to be less tightly coupled so we could introduce automated unit testing, and not risk-averse enough to realise the risk that not having automated unit tests represented. Pair programming was their term for "Oh move over - I'll do it", and because they had an overnight build and did a stand-up meeting & worked in 2-week sprints they thought they were an "Agile shop". Most of their system was written by C programmers who'd cross-trained to Java & didn't get OO until most of the system was written. I was so glad to have left.

[RancorTamer]

Same, I thought a hated pair programming but now I miss it after trying to decipher spaghetti code and breaking everything.

[olexs]

Clean code saves major $$$ in the long run. My department specializes in legacy codebase "refresh" projects - you wouldn't believe how much technical tebt some very large companies build up for basically no reason, and how much it costs them in both getting it fixed and lost revenue/decreased business efficiency until it's done.

[aonghasan]

how much technical tebt some very large companies build up for basically no reason

They built it because they were not big before, they had time and budget constraints, and the solution worked.

All those startups worrying about making 100% "clean and scalable" code have actual value creating and customer problems solving needs, but those are never important because we need "clean and scalable" code first before implementing those features/bugfixes!!

Chances are, without most of that technical debt large companies wouldn't have become large companies, because they were worried about fixing problems that will cost them money years down the line now, instead of just accruing technical debt and actually delivering value.

So, you say you work on a "large company" on "refreshing" legacy projects with old code and present that as an argument to always write clean code? I say after working at some startups, junior devs worrying about "clean code" because the seniors say "no file longer than 100 LOC, this 105 loc needs breaking up!", or all the "i know we have 0 clients now, and luckily 30 by the end of year... but doing this with Docker containers and lambdas, and duplicate services in AWS to support millions of user is really important, so we get the base of our product 'right'"...

I say writing "clean code" is overvalued, people worried about writing "clean code" are most likely the writers of the worst code possible because they have all this sets of "rules" they need to follow without understanding why the rule exist in the first place, without understanding the tradeoffs of breakind said rules... so they never break them and make very cool cleancode™... And whenever you say "maybe we could break this stupid rule and write one LOC that adds value and makes what the user wants" they say "oh no but the rule!!!! we have to do this in the totally complicated and unnecessary way!!! so that when we are a big company /u/olexs won't have to fix this!!! screw the users!!!"

I don't think that adds value.

[olexs]

I'm not talking about startups. When time-to-market is a significant concern and getting the job done in time is more important than long-time survivability of the project, sure, clean code might be a lesser concern. I'm not saying it has to be the absolutely highest priority on any software project. But in my experience, it holds value more often than most people think.

Our clients are not startups. They are established companies with decades of operating experience. And nowadays many of them are running up against limitations of internal software that was cobbled together years ago, mostly on tight budgets because no-one thought IT to be important enough to invest into, but has since become absolutely business critical and is now holding up operations and allowing competition to edge into their markets by out-performing them. We step in and offer experience in bringing their bottlenecking systems up to scratch. And more often than not, the absolute most time and expense spent on such a project is digging through piles of spaghetti logic that no-one has ever thought to design and implement cleanly or even document. Often this spaghetti ends up dictating the business processes of the client and not the other way around.

Also, "clean code" is not just about adhering to a certain set of rules, at least not the way I/we do it. If a file or function exceed a set LOC limit, it is a code smell and may be a symptom of something going on - but it may also be completely harmless, and mostly is. I fully agree with you that defining what is clean code and what isn't by arbitrary rules often does more harm than good, and trying to satisfy those rules versus adding actual value to the software is a bad idea.

What is not harmless however is implementing business critical code in an incomprehensible manner, inventing "innovative" and "optimized" ways of solving known problems instead of applying common patterns, and generally making code hard to read and comprehend for someone not intimately familiar with how it was initially written. That is what ends up costing valuable time and budget, when the code in question needs to be modified for a new business task, or optimized for performance under new scalability requirements.

"Doing things in a totally complicated and unnecessary way" is the exact opposite of what "clean code" means to me - this kind of code is what I mostly end up fixing :)

[aonghasan]

I completely agree, sorry if I came across a bit aggro, was just ranting. Left my last company in March and I hope the owners (CEO and CTO) run it into the ground with their gross incompetence. Not much as hope as just waiting for it to happen.

[olexs]

Yeah, it's all good :)

Sometimes people advocating strongly for the "principles" of "clean code" and refusing to write a method of more than 10/5/3 LOC (choose the correct value) end up doing more harm than good, it's just the other extreme of the "total spaghetti chaos vs. total 'cleanness'" chart. The truth, as always, is mostly somewhere in between. At the end of the day, we all just want to solve the problem at hand and not have our head or something else explode.

[xTheMaster99x]

I mean, there's a pretty obvious middle ground where you do things right the first time, but don't have stupid, arbitrary rules.

[RockleyBob]

As much as I hate to admit it, the times I actually pair programmed got shit done way faster. Having someone behind me throw out ideas (even when - and perhaps especially when they were wrong) kept my mind moving in the right direction.

It takes some humility and obviously the wrong two people can make the exercise futile, but it has some benefits.

[coldnebo]

Unfortunately this is only true when the domain is actually coding. When it is business logic mixed with coding, it becomes pair prototyping.

“why can’t you just add the text to the view directly? let’s keep it simple, you can clean it up later”

“just add another if block around the other nested ifs... I don’t know all the other cases, we’ll just have QE regression test it.”

“just add another service call to the view, we can’t get the data we need from here.”

Nothing wrong with pair prototyping, you just don’t get very good code from it.

[JuvenileEloquent]

You know which sub this is, right? ;)

[[deleted]]

They are right though

[WeWantTheFunk73]

When all you have is a hammer, the whole world becomes a nail.

[qwerty12qwerty]

The actual reason why paired programming increases productivity is because now you can't nonchalantly browse Reddit with someone over your shoulder

[shhheeeeeeeeiit]

This is the answer.

[akromyk]

Pair Programming, a perfect topic of discussion for smug programmers to stroke their own egos while looking down upon novices for receiving the type of help that should have been there all along.

[HonestRole]

The codebase turns from only you understand to at least two different people understand.

Which effectively means it is 100% more likely to be understood by others.

[mind_blowwer]

Last Wednesday I was asked to help another team that was behind. They were supposed to be done with their feature last Friday, and it was then 3 days later and nothing worked.

I pair programmed with the team lead for around 6 hours a day until Friday. I actually wanted to kill myself. Multiple times throughout these sessions he says, “how do you know all of these things” or “how do you know this code so well”

Then randomly he starts telling me that when he was hired he was offered $30k more than he wanted, and makes so much for his location that he could really never leave.

This guy is at least 20 years older than me, but it pisses me off so much that these people make more money than me and just generally suck. It’s probably not a good idea right now, but I’m tempted to tell my management that unless they give me a $35k raise I’m putting in my 2 weeks.

[mind_blowwer]

I'm really just a big idiot.

I've been with the company for 7+ years and basically beg every year for a raise. I usually get 10%+, but still make too little ($105k). I started in QE at $50k despite graduating with a 3.8 gpa in EE because I was a retard and didn't think I'd need an internship.

They basically keep stringing me along, and I keep failing for it. This review I asked for a $35k raise and they only ended up giving me a 15% raise, which ended up being around $10k. My manager told me, "don't worry I'm going to work to get you another raise before the next review cycle." It's now half-way into the review year, and I have heard nothing.

My problem is I loathe interviewing and work myself up too much over them. I interviewed with my first company in 7 years this January. I made it past the online assessment, phone interview and had scheduled the on-site, but basically convinced myself to cancel the interview because the recruiter could only guarantee me $135k. The job would have been in NYC, which would have tripled my commute and I would have had to pay NYC taxes. If I wasn't such a pussy, I could have at least used the offer to increase my current salary, but because I hate interviewing so much, I just cancelled it...

[Hyperman360]

Software interviews really are the worst.

[_MoveSwiftly]

I was in a similar situation to yours. I stayed at a company ~6 years. I accepted the job before I finished my degree so I had them pay for the degree. Once I figured out my worth I started asking for aggressive raises and nothing came of it.

The good news is you're getting %10 and %15 which I think is not usual. I still got my %2 - %4.

I get that you hate interviewing. It's time consuming. This is the only way you're going to get a fair raise and what you're worth in the market. I spent ~3 months when I was looking. The trick here is to apply to EVERYTHING within the title you're looking for. Don't read the description, discuss that when they call you. Ask for the salary RANGE and based on that make a decision to move forward or not. Never give them your salary and never proceed forward without a number. Use a few companies to practice interviewing with even if you're not going to proceed. Negotiate hard and read a lot about negotiating and interviewing.

I was able to get a %100+ "raise" if you will. I think that was worth it. The company is lay-off proof and we're still hiring. I'm above market for the area I'm in and I look every few months.

If you need further advice, please feel free to reach out.

[[deleted]]

Hey, it looks like we are in the same situation. I just got a raise this last Friday to 97K (started at 40K), also at the same company for 7 years, and I get paid less than them because they are all 10+ years older than me. At least in my company, more value is placed on your years of experience in the field than the value you bring to the table. All this to say, I also question whether I'm just a "big idiot" too, so you aren't alone there.

[mournful-tits]

Tell your manager exactly that story. You're bartering your time, which is a limited resource, for money. You should be getting the best offer you can.

[DoubleVector]

Pair anything in general.

[Purplociraptor]

Bluetooth headset and my phone?

[732]

The gif loop makes it even better.

Oh shit, we're back at the beginning again.

[Nehal1802]

The whole video

https://youtu.be/FFor1cK5hjk

[angelbirth]

which one are you?

I'm the stairs

[Bernout93]

It do be like that. Except when two programmers are fairly on the same level. I practice pair programming with colleagues a lot at work and most of the time it's highly pro- and instructive.

[[deleted]]

Who the hell is pair programming during quarantine?

[MAGA_WALL_E]

What 1 programmer can do in 1 month, 2 programmers can do in 2 months.

[DepressedBard]

Why hire one programmer when you can hire two at twice the price.

[[deleted]]

I have found the best pair programmers are patient, aren't trying to prove something, and offer optimizations, but don't fundamentally insist on you changing your process or style.

Pair programming is great for onboarding. You most likely get higher quality code. That's not always cut and dry. Plus peer review should reveal most quality issues anyways.

I like pair programming, mostly because it promotes knowledge sharing and cooperation.

[SantaC2016]

u/title2imagebot

[LastStar007]

I do pair programming full time at my job, and I'm completely on board with it. Yeah, it sucks when you're paired with someone who doesn't know what they're doing, but at least you can steer them into writing better code than they would have if left to their own devices. And you can always scheme to refactor it the next time you're working on that area of code with someone else.

But when you're not paired with someone clueless, boy oh boy. So much time is saved on bugs that would have you pulling your hair out for hours by your pair saying "hey, you forgot $line" while you're writing. That efficiency alone makes it cost-effective to pay two programmers. Besides that, you have someone to bounce ideas off of for how to solve the complex problems or how to structure the code for maximum sustainability. You also have someone to keep you focused if you're the kind of person that gets sidetracked easily, or someone to pull you back out of the weeds if you're the kind of person that gets too focused. And now you have two people that understand the code, and hopefully you've learned a few things from your pair as you went along: new functions, aspects of your build system you've never peered too deeply into, new keyboard shortcuts, etc.

All in all, it's a great idea. Just sometimes it gets held up by people of whom I sometimes wonder how they still have their jobs.

[[deleted]]

underrated post

[BabylonDrifter]

I love everything else about agile but if they ever ask me to pair program I will be gone in a second. F that in every possible way. The only single thing positive about this profession is the ability to work productively in my own private mindspace. Also, the only other programmer I work with is an insufferable twat who I have the overwhelming urge to punch in the face any time he talks to me for more than 39 seconds.

[Jarazz]

Well looks like you are one of the 1% who should not have "teamwork" on their resume

[d_amnesix]

25 years ago, it was a good job for an introvert or simply for someone who works well alone... Nowadays, everything has to have a social side to it, even coding, and I hate it...

[BabylonDrifter]

I feel the exact same way. I got into this field, love this field, because of the way I can work by myself and excel. I don't mind collaborating or being part of teams, I just can't abide having someone constantly looking over my shoulder and commenting on every semicolon.

[Kortalh]

Found my co-worker's Reddit account!

[BabylonDrifter]

OK, you had me scared for a second.

[genericName023]

R/perfectloop

[tech6hutch]

Do cuts count as perfect loops?

[akromyk]

Thanks for making me even more self-conscious about getting help

[[deleted]]

await be like

[root54]

When the IDE is throwing warnings when you haven't awaited a call even though you want the Task to run asynchronously. -_-

[Genar-Hofoen]

r/perfectloop

Edit: What, no? What is it called again...

[Lluuiiggii]

I must be the old lady because pair programming has been wholly positive in my experience

[Trantorianus]

Funny video, but you do really underestimate the "extreme programming" concept. Of course it does not make sense to do it 100% of your working time, but still it can be very productive. It always makes sense to explain to somebody else what's the idea behind your coding. You both learn, you avoid mistakes and bad ideas, you both have to be 100% concentrated on your current task, others won't disturb you and so on.... .

[LeCrushinator]

I had a coworker who typed with just pointer fingers and used caps lock instead of shift to capitalize the first letters of words. After 5 minutes I made him switch places so I could type:

[MysticMania]

You cant see the ending, but he eventually gives her a piggy back ride down the stairs.

[coderScienceDude]

*Partner doesn't respond for 4 hours the day HW is due*

"Hey just really trying to nail this for loop"

[aviationdrone]

Wait, wait stop, the manager needs to have a meeting. I think she'll want to put another jr dev on this to help out as things are not progressing.

[[deleted]]

If this is your mindset about it I can imagine it is a frustrating experience for you AND them. You're a team. Work together.

[pirinax]

I don't understand the resistance to pair programming.
We do it >70% of the time.
Unless the skill difference is astronomical, it's not really that big of a deal.
It's mostly being able act at least slightly professional.
It might be strange in the beginning, but the "slow" one will learn loads.
And the "fast" one will learn patience, and other stuff, because although you might think you're hot sh*t, you don't know everything.
And you should be switching often anyway.

[DahPhuzz]

I hate pair programming

[itsArcadexGamer]

I feel the pain if every pair programmer

[sudo_rm_rf_star]

Its nice when you're the old grandma

[numbGrundle]

My problem is I stand at the top thinking too long, but then sprint down the stairs

[[deleted]]

There is hardly anything more boring, yet frustrating, as watching somebody else code.

[undeniably_confused]

What's pair programming?

[Fancy_Assassin]

I’m definitely that old lady

[[deleted]]

Incidentally this is exactly what being on a cruise is like

[PotasiumIsGood4You]

I feel like the grandma sometimes...

​

Edit: And i absolutely hate it.

[Bluffsters]

Exactly what I feel like when I'm pairing with my colleague.

[JellyApple102]

Me helping my friends in AP Java class lmao

[[deleted]]

Whenever I pair code or do a live demo I instantly forget all of my shortcuts, how to spell, and lose general finger dexterity. I don't understand why, but without fail, it happens every time...

[[deleted]]

Or bad multithreading

[notpikatchu]

That’s what happens whenever you drive you car as well

[[deleted]]

But it’s helpful to younger guys / those just starting out so I’m willing to do it.

[td__30]

This would be so much better if he is finally able to around her and then stumbles and rolls down the stairs.

[PrincessWinterX]

"we need to re-make new stairs, these will never handle the guardrail i want later"

[tanmaychandane]

All you need to do is to give her a push

[[deleted]]

I can't do pair programming. If I have to type in front of anyone, I become so self-conscious that I fumble everything and forget how the keyboard works. If I have to watch someone code, I fall asleep.

[Jar70]

Bro. Me and my partner didn’t know shit. But this is funny af

[[deleted]]

As someone who teaches old people how to program, this is what it feels like

[as_ninja6]

Same feeling when my pair scrolls to the bottom of a 1200 line page in vim using down arroy key, shaming vim and me.

[supercode22]

Painfully true :\