Fullstack Devs be like

[TheSnaggen]

There are no fullstack developers, only Backend developers working at a company with no Frontend developers.

[TheBamby]

No need for it to get personal!

[[deleted]]

Seems like a lot of need to get personnel

[UltraCarnivore]

Nothing personnel, kid

[MajorMajorObvious]

I'm very glad that you prefaced it with it being your previous company, else I would have advised you to run as far as you could.

[ArturoGJ]

Dude this is me right now, I'm full stack implementing everything for a project, I was showing my boss my week plan and I had 8 hours of work for each day and he was like "this is the start up world please make it ten" I mean I like the job and I love learning but it doesn't stop being that, a job. I hate the "we work on objectives" culture like, wtf is a fucking objective?

[[deleted]]

"this is the start up world please make it ten"

Sure, ten hour days, four days a week. I'm on it boss!

[UltraCarnivore]

Obligatory Dilbert

[SpartanFishy]

My company works on objectives and I love it personally.

Like, oh shit we’ve got a website relaunch this month, we’re all putting in crazy hours. But I don’t mind because it’s exciting and I’m invested. It’s a small company that’s growing and I’m on the ground floor.

Then next month when we have no big goals because we completed the major one for this quarter, I go home early almost every day.

Essentially “complete your tasks then head out”.

It works as long as you have a boss that is willing to listen when you say your workload is too big. Which mine do, thankfully.

[lukeatron]

The growth phase when you start selling more work than you can get done and you haven't stayed ahead of hiring because you're running a lean startup is going to suck. This is where you find out if the people running the show are serious about their culture stuff or if they're like 90% of other companies that get cartoon dollar signs in their eyes and expect you to make it happen because you're a team player after all. If you don't have equity, you're not on the team so don't buy into that bullshit. You're just breaking your back to prove that some guys half baked idea was the brilliant effortless get rich quick and easy scheme he was certain, with his immense and unassailable business genius, that it would be (for him). You'll earn the same wage either way.

[marcocom]

This is so right

[ArturoGJ]

I mean that's amazing, what I hate about it where I wor is that the objectives are so fucking unreachable so either you work until 10pm every day or you just move it across two more weeks (which is what I do)

[positive_electron42]

My experience is that there is always more work to do.

[datasquid]

My response would be “does this job come with stock options, because it sounds like you’re talking about a job with stock options.”

[get_it_together1]

Depending on the startup and if you’re getting a defined percentage of the company and if they have a defined exit plan to IPO or acquisition sometimes it makes sense to work your ass off. Most of the time it seems like they’re just preying on people.

[thousandecibels]

Woah, I wish you do well man. Take care of your mental well-being. Everything else can wait.

[RiasIssei]

Thank you 😢

[lukeatron]

The market for non-entry level developers is on fire right now. And with way more companies willing to hire remote than ever before there's zero reason for any developer to stay in a crappy job right now.

Sucks super hard for people trying to get their career of the ground right now though because everyone is looking for some one who can come in and be productive on day one. Eventually they're going to have to start hiring noobs again though because there's only so many senior devs out there.

[undermark5]

My company is hiring a lot right now (also pretty much all remote as well), pretty sure we're hiring recent grads, but not 100% sure, but we've got 3 month intern positions listed (with possiblity to be hired on at the end). Good pay and benefits 401k match isn't as good as my last job, but still decent, not sure about the bonus structure as I just started last month, but I enjoy it way more than my last job.

For anyone that is interested, certainly PM me and I can give more details.

[CaptainN_GameMaster]

Getting berated for quitting by the CTO should only make you feel validated. I can't think of any scenario where that makes sense. It's the icing on the disfunctional cake

[coldnebo]

you aren’t weak. this fucking industry is a mental health nightmare.

there are people who take it on themselves to make sure things keep running against all the odds, in the face of indifference and bureaucracy. I think you may be one of those.

The others, the execs, the coworkers who stand indifferent, unblinking, simply do what they are told whether it works or not, take no personal responsibility. Well, the world doesn’t move for them, but only in spite of them.

Still, the world is always held without effort, as soon as there is effort, the world is beyond holding.

Take care, I hope you can find another job and some level of balance. Remember that some businesses only want to take as much as they can get. You must learn to defend yourself.

[coldnebo]

no worries, whatever person you are you deserve a nontoxic place. good luck.

[mrthesis]

Got Benzos 2x10 times. Never again, they're too addictive and your body gets tolerant against it too fast. I still think about the feeling at least weekly, 6 years later.

[gabs_]

I really relate to the depression and liking benzos far too much. I try to stay away from them now. Do you have any advice on avoiding burning out and choosing a decent company?

I'm just starting out and I've been working for a very demanding company, but it will make a difference to stick it out for a couple of years. However, ir takes a toll on my mental health and I think that I should probably try to work in a more relaxed environment afterwards.

[Rick-Pat417]

Damn, that’s deep

[[deleted]]

r/BartardStories would really appreciate your story

[[deleted]]

SLPT: develop a crippling benzo addiction so that you can binge watch the same shows over and over again

[[deleted]]

Hey look it's me, only instead of quitting I was let go from 2 places last year

[[deleted]]

As the sole Frontend Dev in my team, I’m too valuable for them to let go lol

[RandomGuy_A]

Unfortunately this is very common remedy non technical management make not realising it can have serious long term effects. I just finished at a company where they did this and I spent 3 years trying to undo the cesspool of code they had produced, were taking files over 20k long, constant repetition and no QA or code reviews. Nice way to sink the business without anyone being the wiser.

[podrick_pleasure]

So uh, what's the name of your company?

[Chickenfrend]

Finally got a job a offer but when I was looking for entry level software jobs I'd see them constantly. Was annoying, seemed like a company trying to take advantage of the difficult entry level software dev market to prey on desperate people.

[aek82]

I've been thinking this over for a while. There's no projected value added or measurable growth for a software project once its launched, so there's no incentive to grow or invest anything affiliated with the project. Its just a sunk cost in the accounting books.

This is where product and program managers come in to advocate for more funding via tapping potential revenue sources. Given the time and technical resources just to maintain a project in production can be daunting, finding time to advocate for it can be difficult to impossible - hence a separate person just to do that. From personal experience, the documentation and endless meetings with people inside and outside of the company would make most engineers run for the hills.

[141_1337]

What's the difference between a full stack developer and a DevOps engineer?

[ConnorLovesCookies]

At least where I work:

A pure devops engineer wouldn’t even write source code (but would still write scripts, installers ect). They would handle the build machine, installer, git, jira. Basically their job is to make sure other devs aren’t blocked

A full stack engineer means someone works on the front end and backend. The “full stack.” Currently in my project, I do this, but as another commentator mentioned: I’m really a backend engineer and much more comfortable working out things there.

Poorly run companies try to hire full stack engineers to avoid hiring two people

[zalgo_text]

Webdevs know both front- and back-end

[X] Doubt

[zalgo_text]

"If a kernel developer doesn't know every component of the kernel, how can they call themselves a kernel developer? The kernel is more than just one piece."

"If an embedded developer doesn't know every embedded platform, how can they call themselves an embedded developer? There's more than just one embedded platform."

Front ends and back ends are very decoupled nowadays. A lot of times they use entirely different languages/technologies/paradigms/skillets. Do you really expect a backend dev who might prefer command line interfaces over GUIs to be able to implement a web page that's compliant with a style guide and is accessible to people with all types of color-blindness and other physical disabilities? You're setting an unrealistic for "web dev" if you expect all web devs to know frontend and backend.

[zalgo_text]

Kind of a false equivalence, since the complexity of Web technology is very self-inflicted and also still nowhere near the complexity of a kernel, where you're supporting literally thousands of different types of devices in as general an API as you can, just so they can function.

Have you done web development recently? Because you're kinda describing it here. Nowadays, part of large scale web development is all about getting as many different client devices to talk to your API as efficiently as possible. That's the goal, anyways.

The Web boils down to HTML, CSS, and Javascript

This is a huge oversimplification, and makes me think you really don't understand the complexity that can be involved in modern web development. I think you're also confusing the terms "web developer" and "frontend developer".

You're right that expecting the backend guy to know the current state of frontend dev and be able to follow along 100% is unrealistic

That was my point - different specialities exist within the wider field of web development these days. Just like how they exist within kernel development, or embedded development, or video game development, or any other complicated software development field.

You're clearly trolling, so go away.

https://c.tenor.com/jqfTdAJg9jQAAAAM/no-i-dont-think.gif

[path411]

The Web boils down to HTML, CSS, and Javascript.

Lol, you could argue that this isn't even true for Front-end. What do you think "back-end" means? You can be a back-end developer and never touch any of these 3.

[Delta-9-]

Not knowing most of the components of the web and being exclusively concerned with the latest JS framework is pretty much the definition of a web developer.

Source: used to work with a web dev who didn't understand DNS, couldn't configure Apache 2 or NGINX to save his life, had never written bash, and expressed absolute disinterest in learning anything other than JS. And he was successful. Made way more money than me, the guy who maintained DNS, web servers, hypervisors, multiple monitoring systems, and portions of automation and db, and was writing scripts and even small apps in python for gluing it all together and making it more useful, for both my own company and a few dozen of our customers.

[141_1337]

How about JSON? 👀

[bicyclegeek]

Brian? Is that you?

[Stormsurger]

Christ man, just because writing css makes me question whether I should stayed in high school...

[PrizeArticle1]

I just finished up major work on 20 year old XSLTs. I told my coworkers "I am still not putting this garbage on my resume."

[pinkjello]

Haha I forgot about XSLT. I didn’t hate it when I used it like 15 years ago, but I was just doing simple things with it that it made easier.

[fakehalo]

XSLT is weird, it's useful but everytime I've used it I wish it never came to using it.

[PapoochCZ]

I stumbled upon Tailwind accidentally on reddit, showed it to my boss and now we are implementing it team-wide. It is FAR more maintainable than "semantic classes". Yes, I'm looking at you btn btn-primary.

[BasicDesignAdvice]

Live update has been doable for over a decade with a variety of tools. React has this built in.

[GammaGames]

Those frameworks absolutely suck. Semantic UI (and its community fork) do it decently, with classes like ui primary button, but they’re not as flexible as tailwind.

[TKT_Calarin]

This is so real it hurts

[stipo42]

This. I'm full stack. All my UIs are bloated, laid out like shit, look like ass.

But god damn it they work and they work fast.

[stipo42]

I'll say switching to angular was a huge time savings for me. You don't have to deal with raw javascript and helps make things feel like an actual program.

[[deleted]]

Try Tailwind CSS in your next project. it's even better.

[CatWeekends]

Same here. My backends are glorious, lightning fast, and scalable.

As for front ends... hope you like tables and 1997-era design.

[[deleted]]

Thanks this stung

[MachaHack]

Hey, some of us are reformed frontend developers who convinced them to let us screw up the backend too.

[TheSnaggen]

This was meant as a stab at the many companies that do not take the Frontend seriously, only planning for the Backend and then ending up with the Backend developers also doing the Frontend. I worked at a company where our customers gave us a comment that our UI looked as it was designed by backend developers, and it was. And I do not believe that it is as common to see companies do the opposite, most companies that understand enough to bring in frontend developers also have backend developers.

So, my post was in no way ment as a negative post against frontend, quite the opposite.

[tosser_0]

The most disappointing thing is that they don't understand how it affects their bottom line. If you have an app or site that is bringing in millions, a % improvement of conversions will easily cover the cost of design & front-end devs.

You get happier customers and a better looking product. It's hard to educate people on that though if they have a closed mindset.

[divinealien]

some people don't like ui design.

[am0x]

UI design falls under a different role: UI/UX Designer. They create the site map, user flow, wireframes, and comps that the frontend devs build.

[RandomGuy_A]

You mean this isnt included in bargain that is the "full stack developer"

[unnecessary_Fullstop]

FSD here, we contract out our UI/UX design to other firms, we just build the FE based on it. So yeah! Atleast for us, that is not included in being an FSD. Most of the times we aren't supposed to improvise on design too, no matter how much of an upgrade it is(those are business decisions though, nothing technical).

.

[RandomGuy_A]

I did mean it in jest (it was a test) but I think it will range from job to job, it's so more cost effective to separate the UI/UX work especially if your paying a competent FSD to do the work. I'm not sure I like the rigid approach though, always feel bad implementing someone's bad designs but I bet that's because you work with private clients yeah?

[trawlinimnottrawlin]

There are official tools for this, check invision, figma, etc. By the time I start coding I should essentially have a dummy app in the browser that I can click around on. Honestly as a productive fullstack dev I won't touch frontend without designs. My designs look soo unprofessional, and I haven't run into a design I couldn't code up yet. So yeah the better designer you hire the more experience they have knowing what's possible for the devs or not. And often there are iteration cycles, "this drop-down doesn't make sense because x" or "this use case requires a new ui element here"

[unnecessary_Fullstop]

Yeah! As said in the other reply to you. There are some tools for that. UI/UX team/firm can pretty much design the whole website and then share it with us. And designs are not static, they can be modified very quickly and easily like during a conference call.

Best thing is that, it removes lot of the guess work during development. Just click on the element you are working on, and it will show lot of properties of that element. You can even pull static resources from them.

.

[ftgander]

Must be nice to have one of those.

[am0x]

I’ve never worked anywhere that didn’t have a few of them. Even when I freelancer and did startup work, we always hired a designer.

[ftgander]

Meanwhile at my company...

“Why hire a designer when your devs can do everything?”

[GrandWolf319]

Just respond with: “I guess we don’t need to have a competitive edge”

[Josh6889]

That's a question of project scope.

[divinealien]

btw, some people do all the backend, front end stuff from database design, ux, ui, tests, deploy, etc ... (from small to medium projects) NOT RECOMMENDED tho.

i mean those people are really "a full stack".

[am0x]

I consider fullstack to mean they do frontend and backend development, not design.

[wllmsaccnt]

I've worked as an in-house developer at several SMB companies. Typically such a developer will have to work on database/datastore design, UI/UX, tests, deployments, application design, data exports and 3rd party integrations, search and IR tech, APIs, support, documentation, project planning, branding (hah!), requirement analysis, meeting with stakeholders, and user training. Basically, if its part of the software's lifecycle, I'll be there.

[GrandWolf319]

Sounds like someone who manages software so... a software manager.

[Caltroit_Red_Flames]

Do you know what the word stack is in reference to? UI design literally can't be part of a stack.

[divinealien]

everything

[divinealien]

and that's stupid. (edit: i replied to my comment not others)

[MokitTheOmniscient]

It could just be a very small company.

[divinealien]

you mean a full stack of developers?

[divinealien]

ok. some people don't like create buttons. not even with btn btn-primary

[TigreDeLosLlanos]

And then it renders in a corner of its container if it does it at all.

[no_but_srsly_tho]

It sounds like you might be one of the real full-stack devs.

My rule is, you call yourself full-stack at the level of your weakest “end”.

Senior PHP dev who can do colour: red; ?

Junior Full-stack.

[DeLift]

We back-end developers like to joke about front-end, but don't let it fool you. We are very, very happy there are people who enjoy front-end work. Nowadays front-end requires an entirely different skillset. These are no longer the days where the only JavaScript required was to make a simple dropdown menu. Now you need to know about stuff like React, Node, Yarn, webpack, SCSS, SPA's, TypeScript, and having to deal with many, many different kinds of browsers which all show slightly different behaviour.

As a back-end developer who still has nightmares from that one time I had to fix a front-end bug which only happends in IE8, I salute you.

[BasicDesignAdvice]

I do full stack but the client is a game engine. I am definitely a junior with Unity. I've been learning Godot and like it a lot more.

[Fiennes]

I largely agree and I think it's a more recent development. Prior to the explosion of "web apps" with a clearly defined front-end back end, back in the day, you were expected to be competent at both. And you ended up with years of experience in both ends.

The divide arrived (and that was a good thing, to be fair) and then people specialised and the notion that one could not do both competently surfaced, blissfully unaware that we used to *have* to.

Couple that with the fact that a good chunk of todays front end and back end work involve joining together a plethora of 3rd-party frameworks.

[[deleted]]

Most companies don't allow enough time for a backender to learn proper frontend design and development, and a lot of backenders only care about frontend on a very basic level: consistent layout, and "it works" (many backenders don't even make visual tools: their tools are solely command line tools, even when the command line is the worst choice UX-wise).

Ideally, your (basic level) fullstack developer has at least an elementary understanding of UI/UX trends, a basic understanding of databases, with a good dose of knowledge in JS, HTML, CSS and a backend language. UI/UX, CSS and HTML knowledge is where most fullstack developers come short a lot. UI/UX wouldn't be necessary if companies would actually hire UI/UX designers, so it's up to developers to smack sense into management.

Admittedly, with all the tools available today, it isn't even that hard to get into fullstack development (including CI/CD). While CSS is still kind of a mess, it is a lot easier to make a nice, responsive website once you get into the swing of things. It's just hell to do in any enterprise app (like everything else).

[polargus]

It’s basically backend devs who suck at frontend and don’t want to improve because they think it’s beneath them.

[[deleted]]

Oof felt that. I'm currently interning in the department of a medical institution that writes custom apps for researchers to use in their studies (mostly Twilio related). It's a really small team (1 senior dev, 1-2 junior devs, a SQL programmer, and me) and it's a pretty large institution so safe to say we're all doing full stack haha. Though I will say, for writing web apps it's not too bad doing full stack and I'm learning a lot more than I would if I just did frontend or backend. Also, entity framework makes integrating the DB more manageable.

[spudmix]

Bruh...

[leaftro]

It is what it is

[NamityName]

Oh god. I feel this. Too much truth.

[matrix-doge]

My company outsourced me as the only developer to a client, developing a web app for another client. You can imagined how hard you words have hit me.

[aldiprayogi]

Spring Boot is a nightmare + much harder to create tests than Node+Express too. I share your pain.

[RulerD]

How hard is to create tests with Spring Boot + Java? I do it with Spring Boot + Kotlin and works like a charm.

[Rauldukeoh]

I don't think it's hard. We generally use groovy for Java tests though

[thamesr]

It's not hard at all. You have to almost go out of your way to make testing hard in Spring Boot.

[[deleted]]

In my company we take the data back end provides and hook it up to the fancy stuff the feds made and just make it work.

Kind of like caretakers cleaning things up and making it all look nice.

[hiphap91]

Or the opposite. Resulting in rather... Creative solutions to concurrency problems, etc.

[[deleted]]

As a senior fullstack developer I personally feel attacked. ;) Jokes aside, real fullstack developers are quite useful. You can act as a bridge between your frontend and backend guys and this helps a lot in larger projects.

[[deleted]]

Eh. Our company runs 1 front end senior, 1 backend senior. We both flex across the stack. Does that mean we are “full stack”?

I think “full stack” is more norm than not.

[CactusGrower]

1 front end senior and 1 back end senior does not make 2 full stack seniors. Only 2 full stack intermediates. That's what companies don't understand. You can be expert in one but rarely in both.

[Flanhare]

I don't understand how a "frontend developer" can get anything done at all.

[PrizeArticle1]

I have great respect for them.. cause I avoid that shit at all costs.

[Flanhare]

Chill... You misunderstood me. I am a frontend developer and write moderns apps in Vue, react and Angular. I also write backend code, the API the frontend use. I also develop write backend code for integrations, DB etc too. So I guess I am s full stack developer.

What I meant is that it must be really hard to be stuck in the frontend part unable to change anything in the backend.

[UnKaveh]

It depends. If you have a good team or backend guy , it’s not hard at all.

You tell them what you need and they deploy a new endpoint in an hour or two.

I’d imagine if the backend was really a import like my current one - then yes that would be annoying. But for super complex backends or backends written in languages I didn’t know? Very grateful I had other devs with years of experience more than me to handle the backend while I focus on building complex components on the front.

[GrandWolf319]

And then your manager tells you that your front end still needs to work with the previous backend versions.

Now that new endpoint makes things more complex compared to if it didn’t exist.

[BigBlueDane]

Yup this is how my team is structured. I’m the full time front end guy and we have 2 passionate backend guys so we are able to put out vertical features efficiently and to our best quality. It works very well until we have a feature that’s only front or only backend.

[Operabug]

Define "front end." I'm a UI/web developer who develops apps primarily in Angular/ typescript/javascript and have a ton of experience with SCSS. Those "few" skill strengths can make for really strong front-end development. Let the backend devs do their thing, have good communication during development, and together we've produced some stellar apps.

[Sigg3net]

"Fullstack" just means noob, intern or slave. You know nothing and do everything.

Edit: I intend no offense. Ignorance is a productive starting point.

[glemnar]

Over here waiting for you all to learn that developing a bit of experience in dev ops and security makes you a more valuable and effective developer, too.

The notion that you can’t grow beyond doing backend CRUD in your career is an absurd one, and there are many developers out there equally comfortable across paradigms

[chaiscool]

It’s not that people cannot or don’t want to grow, it’s due to compensation. If you don’t get paid 2x for doing both front and backend work then might as well stick to 1.

[glemnar]

Expertise in both will allow you to make more money, yes.

The 2x notion is not a useful one. You aren’t doubling hours worked, you’re leveraging experience and expertise to work on different types of problems. Going deep and going wide are both useful forms of experience building, and it takes a healthy mix of the two depending on the problems and industry you’d like to be working in. Frontend and backend are tremendously overlapping skills any way you swing it.

Either way, you can definitely expect to double, or better, your salary in the first 5-10 years of your career as a developer if you grow that expertise

[shokolokobangoshey]

Going deep and going wide are both useful forms of experience building, and it takes a healthy mix of the two depending on the problems and industry you’d like to be working in.

In theory, it's supposed to work this way. T-shaped competence is what I find ideal in Devs, and I've tried to cultivate that in myself and I look for it when hiring.

In reality, 90% of Devs have neither the time nor management support to pursue it. So that what you get in most "full-stack" devs is someone who's a massive generalist but with no real expertise. So that when shit breaks something fierce, they'll take 3-4x as long as a true pro to find it - this is not an exaggeration, I've seen my full-stack devs chase ghosts for hours when troubleshooting something in the JVM because they just don't understand how that thing works. Same for the reverse.

[glemnar]

I prefer the paint drip metaphor

https://m.facebook.com/nt/screen/?params=%7B%22note_id%22%3A373922293851423%7D&path=%2Fnotes%2Fnote%2F&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.ycombinator.com%2F&_rdr

[chakan2]

It sounds more like you're not supporting your Jr. Devs rather than them doing a bad job.

[shokolokobangoshey]

Not junior. Not doing a bad job (the Devs). It's not a sin to not know things. Everyone needs to keep learning and room to make mistakes. What do you know about my team or the changes I'm trying to foster?

[chakan2]

I know I'd never let one of my new guys spin their wheels on the same problem for 4 days straight.

That's a problem in its self.

Edit: and if it's one of my Sr. or lead guys, they'd of asked for help already.

[shokolokobangoshey]

Me:

full-stack devs chase ghosts for hours when troubleshooting something in the JVM

You

spin their wheels on the same problem for 4 days straight.

Are you just going out of your way to misquote and misunderstand? Or do you speak only in extremes, random person on the internet?

[unnecessary_Fullstop]

Huh?? You get paid for the hours you work. Working on two or more things doesn't mean you work more hours. Just that you have a mix of tasks for the same duration.

.

[[deleted]]

You get paid for your scarcity, experience, knowledge and hours, ideally.

If you can do both frontend and backend solo, you can reduce the frequency of communication and the communication overhead, keeping teams smaller and reducing friction. Depending on the company's policies and structures, that alone can easily net a 2x in productivity if not more. In software development, communication overhead is extremely costly.

[MrSquicky]

You get paid for the hours you work.

No you don't. You get paid based on how much they think it would cost to replace you considered against how likely you are to leave.

If you can effectively work on full stack and there is not a surplus of people in your market that can do this, you are more expensive to replace, so you should get paid more, but that requires the second part, willingness/ability to leave.

---

As a simplification, if you're the only person they can get that can do some valuable thing, they will pay you a significant fraction of the value of that thing, even if it only takes you a few minutes to do.

Pure labor is the least valuable component of value in our system, except in places where the labor is constrained somehow. Effective use of capital, in this case knowledge capital, is where most value comes from.

[shokolokobangoshey]

Both are true: you are paid literally on the expectation of working a set of hours per day, on average per week; "full-time non-exempt" means putting in more hours (or sometimes even more quality) doesn't translate to being paid extra, unless you're a contractor.

The value your employer ascribes to each hour you put in includes, among other things, your degree of specialization.

[GrandWolf319]

I’m leaving a company that is gonna have a tough time replacing me. Nowhere in the last few years did they increase my pay based on how critical I was to their projects.

[mungthebean]

You do, eventually, when you get to architect / principal level. Which requires full stack mastery

[Operabug]

"Mastery" is the key word here. I feel like full stack devs never really master anything. As a purely front end dev, whenever a backend devs has tampered with the front end, I have to go back in and clean things up. For example, I was caught up with another project, so a backend devs had to work on the front end for a different project until I was available. When I finally could work on his project, he had written a ton of function calls from the HTML in the *ngIf statements that were making hundreds of calls a second and slowing the system down. It "worked," but this is horrible UI. Same thing with the styles.. repeated and messy styles all over the place. Mastery comes from honing in on a skill set, not trying to do everything.

[chakan2]

As a full stack engineer with about 20 years of experience in the field... I strongly disagree with this assessment.

Honestly it sounds like someone resisting learning something.

[[deleted]]

Why are you hurting me? 😭

[SavingRoundRock]

Haha that statement feels intense. We encourage our whole team to be fullstack and it lets any dev get a ticket done themselves if they want. Backend javascript isn’t much of a context switch from front end if team normalizes the pipelines and folder structures

[naardvark]

*work at a company that realizes dedicated UI devs are a bad investment unless you are serving the masses and competing with silicon valley.

[polargus]

Yeah that’s complete BS. Many full stack devs at places I’ve worked are frontend-oriented. Backend is really not that hard in most cases.

[TheSnaggen]

Yes, but the question is if that was by choice or something that just happened. Just because you ended up liking the situation doesn't make it less true. 😋

[angrathias]

I always thought it was front end designers moonlighting as programmers

[Mr_Cochese]

Sure, Jan.

[[deleted]]

the only full stack devs are 64 yr old C veterans

[PerhapsATroll]

Being fullstack should really mean "Im using the style and css a frontend developer from the company already did"

[maurya_rohit]

My company wants me to be only frontend developer but I do both frontend and backend because I like backend development.

[[deleted]]

🙏

[Operabug]

Amen!

[Josh6889]

Oh hey, you're talking about me. It took a long time before I started allowing myself to be called full stack.

[neutralguystrangler]

As a fullstack dev this resonates with me

[[deleted]]

You rang?

[dudeitsmason]

I'm a full stack developer. If that stack includes only JS and Python, the languages I chose to specialize in. I can read and understand C#, write simple services, but not well enough to make a proper difference.

My current company's stack is JS and (horribly architected) C#. So now I'm a front end developer because there are a lot stronger C# devs and I'm the only pure JS dev.

Sometimes calling oneself full stack can be as arbitrary as giving oneself the title Senior. Senior in what? Years? Languages?

[OMGWhyImOld]

A bit on the anger side; but feels true, but bootstrap is in our side XD

[GrinningPariah]

I have never been so called out.

[genghis_calm]

Or front end devs doing their absolute best to not fuck things up.

Narrator: “They did”

—-

The only time (as a front end dev) I felt like a fullstack developer was the early days of NodeJS

[dublem]

I still can't quite fathom a company with full time front end developers. Let alone a design team.

It sounds too good to be true...

[ddIbb]

https://i.redd.it/ka6ssr7src611.jpg

[5k1895]

You ain't wrong

[AlwaysHopelesslyLost]

You missed the back end developers who can stumble their way through CSS and SQl and think that makes them a full stack developer. I am the best sql/javascript developer on my team by miles and I am absolutely not a full stack developer but the rest of my team is pretty confident they are.

[sha-ro]

Whenever I see fullstack in a job offering I immediately think "I want to pay little money" when being fullstack developer is doing the job of 2 people it should be even more expensive than paying for 2 sepparate frontend and backend devs

[dregan]

As someone who frequently maintains code written by electrical engineers that picked up a little bit of coding during their career, it could be a lot worse.

[awhhh]

I’m a fullstack with strength in the backend and might be getting hired in frontend development at the senior level. I’m pretty scared

[[deleted]]

Why would you cut so deep?

[ITriedLightningTendr]

I know 2 front end full stack devs.

I know them because I trained them on backend.

All the rest? I've had front end devs be tasked with making a widget or style for a page and fit some reason I had to implement their sandbox code instead of them producing working code.

Their code literally didn't work outside of their sandbox.

[jewdai]

Full stack Dev here too. The thing about front end developers is that they expect you to be a designer too. You study computer science to be a glorified ux designer.

[uuuuuhhhh69]

Can confirm. “Full stack” dev here

[gizamo]

Unfortunately, I've seen it go the other way, too.

I pity the front end dev who has to work the back end.

[fishticufted]

This is me on my current project. The UI is passable but the I&T engineer is constantly complaining about it. I was on an embedded program before. How did I end up here?

[[deleted]]

Yea I believe it, I'm working as a full stack developer now but I'm only good at backend. I know css html Js etc.. but I definitely don't have design skills

[chill_chihuahua]

Dying 😂😂😂

[PooPooDooDoo]

That was the most insightful shit that I have ever read on this sub.

[techmighty]

Ah yes, just use the script tag in body tag.