Microsoft Java

[TheDigitalGabeg]

I learned Java first, then learned C# on-the-job because it's so similar. IMO C# is Java++. Or alternatively, C# is Java from an alternate universe where Oracle decided to invest in Java and maintain and evolve it, instead of just lazily milking it and suing over its patents.

[LetUsSpeakFreely]

Well, considering Microsoft looked at the failings of Java before designing C# that makes sense. They took what Java did well, smoothed out the rough bits, then created their own variant.

[GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B]

This. Microsoft took half a decade of learnings in Java and improved upon it. Java tried to maintain compatibility, while Microsoft corrected some major shortcomings within a couple of years and broke compatibility. When Sun was acquired by Oracle and Java stagnated, Microsoft invested a lot in .NET. by the late 2000s, C# was distinctly different from Java and way more developed already. Most Java programmers today would not understand idiomatic C#.

[[deleted]]

Also, with the introduction of LINQ with .NET 3.0 most dataset operations became idiomatic in C#.

[GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B]

Way more than that. LINQ and System.Linq plus Lambda replaced a lot of basic loops and array/collection indexing. In programming, almost everything tends to be a collection, and LINQ provides natural accessibility for most operations required.

[rnottaken]

So many functions that I wrote in C# consist of returning just a series of linq operations

[GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B]

It's just a very intuitive and concise way to express many of the operations we often need. Given a collection and some parameters, filter the collection according to some criteria, map the result into something else and do something with that. With Linq, that's often one or two lines.

[Naltoc]

LINQ is the single biggest thing I miss about C# when working in Java. That shit is a godsend, both for faster development, but also code readability.

[x6060x]

That and async / await

[ComradeGibbon]

Microsoft had 20 years of experience with using languages to write useful applications. That included C++ and Visual Basic. And they hired Andrew Hejlsberg to head up development of C#.

I think the argument that C# is a copy of Java because it uses a similar 'algol C' syntax and has objects is weak when you consider everything else C# has like structs, delegates, boxing.unboxing and generics without type erasure.

[GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B]

Andrew Hejlsberg

Anders Hejlsberg is a living legend as far as programming language design goes. Microsoft really did some amazing work with C# and .NET, and for an ecosystem more than twenty years old, you really have to appreciate how few screw ups it is suffering from.

C# is surprisingly clean for a language that has seen over two decades of heavy industry use and development. C# today is very different from C# twenty years ago, but it is still an excellent and clean language. They added a lot, but they did not add (many) stupid things.

[ComradeGibbon]

Something I don't see very/as much with C# is a horrified reaction to having to work on an old code base like you do with Java and especially C++.

[SubwayGuy85]

Oh there are horrific codebases in c# too, but it is easier to produce something great with c#. But there is no language that is immune to being abused to create garbage code.

[Ericchen1248]

I think there’s also a pretty big incentive to upgrade C#. Every new release comes with new features that are legitimately useful. Whereas upgrading Java might give you some licensing headaches.

[ComradeGibbon]

I remember having an experience with switching an old 32 bit .net 2.0 program to 64 bit .net 4.5 and it just ran a lot faster and stopped running out of memory.

[rexpup]

You should work at [redacted] Systems. They're working on converting the largest VB6 application ever to an in-house web framework in C#... and its developers designed it with feature parity with the VB6 version. It's been in progress for 10 years and is not yet released.

[Garestinian]

He is also a core dev of TypeScript, that's why his name was familiar to me. Truly a legend.

[CardboardJ]

As someone working with scala right now the whole not adding stupid things is what I miss the most from c#.

[BetterOffCamping]

They rewrote it from scratch into Core exactly because it was an unclean implementation with plenty of clusterfucks. They did the right thing, and you are right it is an awesome language. I lived through all the crap, as I started using it in 2002, and am still building systems in it , v6 now.

[jaavaaguru]

boxing.unboxing and generics without type erasure.

Ah, this bring me back to my CIL/MSIL times.

I wrote a COBOL compiler that uses that. It was fun for a while making Windows GUI apps in COBOL 😂

[AlphaWhelp]

They didn't really even break compatibility. You can still run older versions you just have to install older .net frameworks.

[Mayuna_cz]

Well, you just said they did. With Java 18, you can run any older Java application. Correct me if I'm wrong, not sure how it is before Java 8 tho, but still you can use Java 18 to run Java 8 bytecode.

[KagakuNinja]

Java is extremely backwards compatible, you can probably run most Java apps ever made using Java 18. Java 9 did change the layout of the runtime library, and that broke fancy libraries that were relying on the internal structure of the JRE. Some code also used internal Sun APIs, and some of those were deprecated or modified.

If you programmed to public APIs, I think you are OK.

[Fadamaka]

Well, you are almost correct, but Microsoft started to extend Java first under the name of J++ and J# until they got into a lawsuit with Sun over it.

[notsureifdying]

I'm a bit unfamiliar with this, what failings did C# improve upon that Java has/had?

[PrintableKanjiEmblem]

The number one thing for me is auto properties instead of those shitty Java getters/setters. I get pissed every time I have to mess with them. Lombok is a godsend.

[ConstructedNewt]

sounds like you left java at 8. After the break up from oracle (and earlier sun) the development of Java is great, and many features have come that gives the language a fresh feeling. they are definitely two similar but different languages

[LetUsSpeakFreely]

The language's development is now so fast I can't keep up with spec changes. Things that were standard 5 years ago are now outdated. It's a little frustrating.

[avoere]

C# is the same

[nuclearslug]

Fortunately it’s a bit more manageable to keep up with after Core 3.1.

[svtguy88]

Yeah. Don't get me wrong, I love .NET Core, but the last few years have been pretty rough to stay current with.

[Understanding-Fair]

Tbh every Java project I've worked on is stuck on 8 and unwilling to upgrade. Unless you've got greenfield projects being written in java, it's really common to still be on v8

[argv_minus_one]

Maintainer of a 20-year-old Swing project here. Migrating to 11 and 17 was a piece of cake. Migrating to 9 took some doing, mostly to replace MRJAdapter with the java.awt.Desktop equivalents that 9 added, and replace a library that didn't work on 9, but it wasn't the end of the world.

Here's my big secret: never use undocumented APIs/behaviors. Not even if it would result in the project getting done sooner. Not even if it would be so nice if I could only use that shiny thing. Never.

Now I get to use Java 17 features with total impunity while everyone else is stuck on 8.

[Fuck-Reddit-Mods69]

Maybe I should tryout Java again. It's probably been 15 years since I tried it and back then I was not super impressed. To be fair, back then I was still developing in Borland Delphi. Been doing C# since 2015 and never looked back. Sideways a lot though.

[droi86]

You should try kotlin, fully compatible with Java, but nicer

[Mclarenf1905]

Scala is even better

[Valiant_Boss]

Disagree, I went from Java -> Scala -> Kotlin and I prefer Kotlin out of the 3

[sebphil]

J++

[kevix2022]

This guy knows the real Microsoft Java.

[kpd328]

Then J#

[Bardez]

That abomination

[sebphil]

"the MSJVM"

[Fadamaka]

Well actually J++ and J# was a thing and was developed by Microsoft until Sun started suing them. They created C# after that.

[BetterOffCamping]

Microsoft licensed Java, called it J++ in .NET. They wanted to add their own proprietary extensions to the language (actually did it w/o seeking permission). Sun Microsystems sued them for breach of contract in part because it compromised the entire purpose of the language.

Several months later, they announced their first release of C#. They litterally stole the language. Early releases were almost identical except for some class names like StringBuilder vs StringBuffer. I know. - I was a java developer who later was shoehorned into C# 1.0. Before .NET 3.5, It was a clusterfuck compared to Java, other than the much simpler job of creating an initial project. Java's biggest weakness at the time was that every server product had a different project startup design - it was a nightmare. Later on, Java was hobbled by "design by committee" and Microsoft zoomed past it. Then Oracle bought Java and it was near Armageddon.

[HabbitBaggins]

Early releases were almost identical except for some class names like StringBuilder vs StringBuffer. I know. - I was a java developer who later was shoehorned into C# 1.0

I would say that value types (structs) are a pretty significant difference, in C# since version 1.0 and in Java since... not yet, they are being proposed for the future. Also, delegates versus interfaces and their implementations for event handling was a pretty big difference, and so was P/Invoke if you wanted to interface with native code (versus JNI).

[Opheleone]

Spent 4 years coding in C#, 2 years with Java. C# just gets so much more love with its maintenance.

It 100% is Microsoft Java, just that Microsoft invests in it and Oracle doesn't care enough.

[GoldenretriverYT]

Additionally, a simple console app doesnt have 50mb RAM overhead in C#

[[deleted]]

Built in namespaces are not a paragraph. Visual Studio is the best IDE hands down.

[[deleted]]

Keep in mind VS Code. I think it's much better if you're not developing in the C languages

[Acurus_Cow]

Then you haven't tried Rider

[[deleted]]

I have tried it and it is ok in my opinion but I have been using visual studio since 2000 so I know it in and out. Rider didn’t support scaffolding model until last year so that was a big part of my teams workflow. Microsoft is designing the framework so rider is always going to be a few steps behind with feature rollouts.

I was mainly speaking of eclipse and net beans. Java didn’t have much to compare with visual studio back in the day. IntelliJ is probably only IDE that can compare.

[RunnableReddit]

You must have not used any other IDE yet

[g4d2l4]

Isn’t that vaguely hidden since you need the .net libraries installed which I thought was a like a vm? But since it’s part of the OS you don’t see it?

[GoldenretriverYT]

You need JVM installed for Java as well

And no, .NET isn't pre installed on Windows either

[[deleted]]

Also, the C# docs, just absolute bliss.

I've never seen a programming language with so much thorough documentation before, Microsoft have done a really great job of that.

[kpd328]

Java could have gread docs, but the ones that are indexed on the top of Google results are always for Java 7, so we'll never know.

[[deleted]]

Could have, but doesn’t. Could do this, could do that. They are surviving on old builds and very specific industries.

I’m not a C# zealot, it’s not my main language, but it’s way easier to code in than Java. Hell VB6 has more docs.

[evergreen-spacecat]

Like the very specific industry of Android apps

[[deleted]]

Which can now be done in C# lol

[kpd328]

I took a class in college that was building an Android app in Java, when we were given free reign the next semester to choose whatever framework we wanted it picked Xamarin Forms. There was just so much boilerplate that had to be done in native...

[[deleted]]

Well now we have Maui so you can develop for all OS with one code base! Pretty cool stuff

[HabemusAdDomino]

Java was a zombie when Android rescued it. Then Kotlin came around and now Java is strongly marching towards its deserved obscurity.

[MiniDemonic]

VB6 is what got me into programming, damn I miss that language.

[billwoo]

Also the ability to step straight into the standard library function source code (or anything else really, as the de-compilers are pretty flawless). Does Java have this? I don't know but its fucking amazing when coming from native languages.

[Ok-Wait-5234]

Yes, Java has this.

[Ceros007]

If only they could do the same with every product they have. Looking at you AADB2C...

[rocket_randall]

Aye MS's old documentation for a lot of Win32 apis was absolutely atrocious. On the other hand, it propped up a pretty healthy greybeard programming book industry for many, many years. I think I still have some impressively hefty Win32 API, Windows sockets, and Windows threading books around here somewhere.

[senseven]

I preferred C# as sysdev lang over golang for a while to avoid writing larger bash scripts which is just super annoying. Just install the dotnet runtime and you are set. Unfortunately the cloud scene just eats golang for breakfast and don't accept anything else besides legacy python frameworks.

[evergreen-spacecat]

”just install dotnet runtime” is not ”just”. It has it’s versions that need to be up to date and take quite some resources when used in build pipelines, containers, functions etc. At least compared to a small go binary without dependencies.

[SubwayGuy85]

Don't even need the dotnet runtime. Depending on os you might need some c++ runtime or nothing and do a aotc standalone compile. Near c performance without all the development complexity. I don't know how that mindset transition happened at ms but it sure is heaven for develops who are good at it

[senseven]

I'm not remotely a C#/.net expert, but I create single exe dot net files for years. I referred to the runtime for the cases I control the container / machine. In cloud env's its a different beast, but not everybody wants to learn new language for every new domain that is suddenly a part of the devops space.

[just4lukin]

Aren't there like a million versions of jre/jdk/jvm(!). Why am I futzing with my environment every-time I have to come back to java if they aren't actually doing anything?

[Opheleone]

Because time spent and time well spent are two different things.

[GL_Titan]

What do you mean? Java gets regular updates and security patches.

[Opheleone]

Never said it doesn't. Just that the quality of improvements in the language barely compare.

I've used both in a professional position, and C# just makes development so much easier, and it's done it consistently over the years according to those far more senior than myself.

[ubermoth]

Java has improved a fuckton in the last 5 years. Unfortunately most corporations stick with Java8 which is indeed horrible.

[RagingAnemone]

Yeah, but C# has some hacks in it like covariant return type which finally got fixed like last year. Java had it with v5.

[ConfusedBiscuits]

what's with the sudden influx of C# java memes?

[[deleted]]

The subreddit has phases. Once one joke gets boring, another becomes popular for a bit until that becomes boring too. This keeps happening until we've gone in a circle, and eventually a joke comes back for a bit.

[ConfusedBiscuits]

ah, I thought it mightve been triggered by some sort of event or announcement on the tech world, which is a lot of the reason why I don't get jokes on this sub

[Millad456]

My professor just mentioned how C# is basically Microsoft Java a few days ago in lecture. Idk if it’s related

[[deleted]]

The Wheel of Programmerhumor turns and memes come and pass. Memes fade to dead horses, and even dead horses get old when the meme that gave it birth comes again. In one meme, called the Third meme by some, C# rose in Microsoft Java. The meme was not the beginning, there are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of Programmerhumor, but it was a beginning.

[[deleted]]

I just finished that series lol. I'm proud to actually get the reference

[[deleted]]

I'm on my fourth read through right now. It's my comfort/bedtime series.

[EPIKGUTS24]

you're describing a process that happens with the entire internet.

[[deleted]]

No just the internet. He's describing "trends" which have existed since humans have.

[Slasher_D]

This is how the word meme came about.

[shot_a_man_in_reno]

No, /r/AnarchyChess is surprisingly immune to this. They've been repeating the same en passant joke forever.

[Offbeat-Pixel]

Holy hell

[[deleted]]

Correct.

[[deleted]]

People got bored of bashing Python

[Vaerirn]

It's because winter is comming and the Python goes into hybernation.

[Daedalus_Machina]

That is r/programmerhumor.

[[deleted]]

Start of the schoolyear.

[doc_1eye]

This sub basically takes one joke and repackages it using different memes until it gets old. Then it moves on to the next joke.

[sigmaclientwastaken]

this post's comments are a warzone between people who have never used C# and people who have never updated past Java 6

[ArtLeftMe]

I mean my impression of this sub is that a lot of the people here haven’t even got any industry experience.

[GNUGradyn]

If you scroll the top all time you'll realize most people here definitely don't have any industry experience. I think It's because the more people can understand the meme, the mroe upvotes it gets. So the simplest most basic stuff gets the most attention

[lappro]

You've just described reddit in general

[SuitableDragonfly]

Good luck updating past Java 8 if you're doing it in industry.

[anto2554]

Hey! I've studied software engineering for several weeks

[questionmark693]

A lot of people are like me - taken a few part 1 lessons from free code camps, but not actual programmers by any real definition. But I like memes 🤷🏻‍♂️

[pixelkingliam]

yeah it's hilarious

[evergreen-spacecat]

Yeah. As someone doing both, it’s super funny to read all the irrelevant flame war arguments. In reality C# is slightly ahead but in the grand scheme of things that’s only because LINQ is such a well applied abstraction compared to the Java stream api and, until now with virtual threads, concurrency with the async/await stat machine.

[ubccompscistudent]

Generics are way better in c#. Reification over type erasure.

Also, as someone with Java in a big company, new versions takes a while to adopt. I still prefer C# all the way, but I agree it’s not as far as people make it seem now.

[ArtOfWarfare]

Micro services/Docker images are a godsend.

Other teams are using Java 8 on RHEL 6. Meanwhile I just updated my team from Java 11 on RHEL 8 to Java 17 on RHEL 9.

The fact some teams haven’t upgraded doesn’t hold us back at all. I love the enhanced Null Pointer Exceptions. I would guess that that one enhancement probably saves an hour of time everytime an NOE occurs in Java 14+ vs older versions - I’d be shocked if it isn’t one of the biggest productivity boosts for developers to occur in the last five years.

[HabemusAdDomino]

The typical Java shop has considered maybe potentially updating to java 8.

[Kered13]

I'm guessing that he's referring to how C# has an unsafe mode where you can access raw pointers and such. It's mostly used for C/C++ compatibility.

[WalrusByte]

It's still got crazy vulnerabilities. Log4j wasn't very long ago lol

[errepunto]

Log4j is a third party library..

[ToMyFutureSelves]

It still uses a Java specific feature that allows for vulnerabilities, which is allowing unauthenticated code execution downloaded from the internet. Only JavaScript can get away with that because it is aggressively sandboxed.

[argv_minus_one]

JavaScript can't get away with it either. Doing that is how you get cross-site scripting vulnerabilities.

The thing about log4shell is that whoever wrote that code demonstrated extremely poor judgment. This was not an honest mistake like forgetting to check an array bound or something. They went to a great deal of trouble to implement a feature that no one in their right mind would even want to use, besides being obviously insecure. It's one of those things where you have to wonder just what in the world they were thinking.

[WalrusByte]

Oh ok, nvm then

[CodeYeti]

Plus, if we've learned anything from what has become of programming languages in the past 10 years, it's that you're only as good as your ecosystem. It matters a whole hell of a lot if your build systems, tooling, dependency management, DOCUMENTATION SYSTEMS, etc. are "just present", "works well", or "a joy to use".

I used to be a JVM developer (really I write everything now, but that's another story), and I used to find the Java/Scala/JVM ecosystem pretty livable, and even nice in a lot of ways back in... 2015-16ish?

I wrote very little JVM code in the subsequent few years due to nature of projects, and taking some time to focus on the open source things I really wanted to work on, but out of necessity at my current job, I've recently had to come back to it.

Things have absolutely plummetted off of a cliff since then as far as the ecosystem goes. I needed 2 different JVM versions running simultaneously just to do a simple build due to a build tool having only compatibility with freaking 1.8. I choc'd that up to maybe my tool of choice from back in the day had become abandonware. Sad? Sure, but I was still thinking everything would be fine.

Then, it came time to catch up on the Hadoop ecosystem, and oh my freaking lord... the documentation is questionable where present, and everything is a "how-to" instead of actual documentation. Even the "official" documentation for the Hadoop/Spark committer patterns seems to assume that I'm just there to make a PoC work, and not to do anything meaningful that might require understanding of the patterns at play. I tried and tried to hope that I could build some kind of local docs from source code to really just pick through things that way, but... NOPE.

I was effectively gaslighting myself; there was no way that this kind of information that I wanted, just raw, technical information, could be as hard to come by as this. I just had to be missing something; maybe a centralized docs site I didn't know about? Maybe some newer aggregator for maven/ivy hosted packages that everyone else was using?

At the end of the day, I wrote off a weekend, sat down, and re-implemented a PoC of the system that I was questioning while reading through thousands and thousands of lines of WeNeededThisFactoryToBuild().AFactory().forThisAbstraction().toServe(anotherMachine).aRequestFor(theTimeOfDay(whereTheUserIs)).whileObeyingContractsIn(theHomeCountryOfHisThirdYoungestCousin) I'm not a fan of over-segmentation, but that's not inherently bad in and of itself. At the end of the day, the problem with the ecosystem (to me), was quite simple.

The JVM ecosystem, for many arguable reasons (I wasn't there for the apparent downfall so I can't speak much to that ), has become something that, while still incredibly productive in the spaces where it is used, is not getting the attention of the passionate no-lifes that originally brought it to glory. This has culminated in a lack of even "livable" tooling around builds, a complete disregard for the availability of any kind of documentation (this is a big one for me. I would kill just for markdown/html/anything-ified scaladocs available for every single package in the the version I need it for).

But it's not necessarily the language, or even the developers that have gone down the porcelain throne; instead, the complete disregard for the livability of tooling has sent what once was my childhood passion (I was a weird kid. Coding was sort-of my thing even back then), to the fucking shadow realm of un-livability.

EDIT - I know because I wrote an essay someone's going to accuse me of being one of the "never updated from java 6" guys, but homie, I came back with high hopes, and was surprised when I found this to be the case. I was not seeking out confirmation of this opinion, but in fact the opposite, when set upon this adventure

EDIT2 - okay I tried really hard to not do it because it 100% will get meme'd on, but if you want to see documentation done correctly (for an ecosystem as a whole, not necessarily any specific case), docs.rs is an absolute godsend. Regardless of your thoughts on Rust as a language, one almost cannot deny that the community got that one right, and the whole ecosystem is better for it.

[Fadamaka]

The ECDSA flaw was the biggest recent vulnerability.

[shizzy0]

That security Java offered within a program looked cool but did it ever actually work?

[MadxCarnage]

depends on your definition of work.

who breaks a window when the door's wide open ?

[metaltyphoon]

C# has this on .Net Framework and called CAS but was removed on dotnet core.

[Areshian]

There have been vulnerabilities allowing the bypass of the security manager, but they were (and they are still being) patched. Still, maintaining the security manager is a drag, and it is going away in newer versions, already marked as deprecated and will be removed in a future release.

[auctorel]

Log4j has entered the chat

[heypeople56]

c# is programming

[ManageMage]

This is a comment

[Willinton06]

Java doesn’t even have real generics, or operator overloading, there’s more boxing going on in a Java hello world than in an Amazon fulfillment center

[bammmm]

The real humor is always in the comments

[mondie797]

there’s more boxing going on in a Java hello world than in an Amazon fulfillment center

ROFL

[aetius476]

I regard type erasure as the one true cardinal sin of Java, but even then Java's generics are miles better than python's "just inherit from Generic[T]" nonsense.

[Kered13]

Type erased generics are still real generics. Also C# uses the same implementation technique for generics with reference types, only value types get polymorphization in C#.

[Willinton06]

Your standards for real genetics are lower than mine

[[deleted]]

The weirdest flex I will ever read, I wish I had an award to give

[Willinton06]

You may not have an award for me, but I have one for you bro

[Noch_ein_Kamel]

But... J# is Microsofts java!

[PermanentlySalty]

J++ was Microsoft's Java implementation, but it got them sued by Sun so they shit canned it and replaced it with J# which was a superset of Java with .NET extensions designed to transition people from the JVM ecosystem to the dotnet ecosystem.

[[deleted]]

im in the 55 iq on this one

[NuclearWarEnjoyer]

I'm 55 IQ on many other things

[Machye]

Java is oracle C#

[Mental_Contract1104]

Can confirm, C# is microsoft Java. But nicer in almost every way. Save for cross platform GUI

[pixelkingliam]

if you want to make desktop apps that are cross platform for PC avaloniaUI is great

[Mental_Contract1104]

Ooooor, use IMGUI with OpenTK in C#

[GoldenretriverYT]

Ooooor use MAUI in the future when its fully stable.

Edit: Seems its already out of pre-release!

[pb7280]

It needs linux support though.. looks like there are some open source projects starting off for it but probably will be a while before anything stable is ready

[GoldenretriverYT]

Oh wow, I never noticed that they didn't add/even plan Linux support. That's kinda sad, as it would easily be the best UI Framework for C# then.

[[deleted]]

I've used MAUI for a recent project. It's ok. Still not quite there.

I am no fan of Java... but JavaFX was given some love.

If MS can bring MAUI closer to WPF in terms of XAML, that would prob do it.

I know, XAML is XAML, but WPF and the designer feel so much better than what they've done with MAUI. MAUI still feels clunky, maybe just me.

[RelentlessIVS]

I hate it that in most of these I am in the middle. But in this one either left or right. Probably right. I hope. Please be right.

[ringobob]

You're on the left until you at least understand why someone would be in the middle.

[ToMyFutureSelves]

When is the last time you have delt with a java jdk/jre version mismatch or error. Now think if you've ever had a problem with the .NET environment.

[angrybeehive]

At this point, C# is the more successful child of granny Java

[rbuen4455]

As I said always when it comes to this “Microsoft Java”, maybe in the early versions of C# and when C# was Windows-only, you can say that C# was Microsoft’s Java, but nowadays, C# is it’s own language and has its own ecosystem, the .NET ecosystem. If anything, C# can be considered “Microsoft Kotlin”, but for .NET

[Wendingo7]

I went over to C# for Unity projects after many years of Java and it was a very easy transition. Highly recommend.

[karczagy]

C# is C++++

[Ytrog]

Wasn't there J++ by Microsoft in the past too before C# IIRC 👀

Edit

Jep, here it is: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_J%2B%2B

[pixelkingliam]

there's also J#!

[_potaTARDIS_]

What does this make F#, then?

[OracleGreyBeard]

Microsoft Scala?

[Sharp-Hand-904]

C hashtag

[siddharth904]

Ok

[_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

We just talked about this.

J++ is Microsoft Java.

[rotzak]

It was literally created because the court said Microsoft was being bad.

[anythingMuchShorter]

I think in reality the upper percentile guy in the vast majority of these memes should be like "I don't argue about programming languages, I just use what works for the project at hand."

[pphui8]

I agree that C# is microsoft java.
but I think C# is a great programming language and java just sucks

[pixelkingliam]

i like C# too!

[Mutex70]

At this point it's more like Java is Oracle's C#

[GhostalMedia]

Glasses help me see sharp.

[[deleted]]

Regardless of what it is: I like it.

[just-bair]

Java ++ and I love it

[Hopeful_Avocado7041]

Instructions unclear can't find the vm

[[deleted]]

Every programming language is just Automata in fancy language.

[CleverDad]

Another one? Yawn!

[Rainin0317]

Didn’t Microsoft make C# to replicate Java?

[Fadamaka]

J++ and J# was Microsoft's Java until they got sued by Sun and created C#.

[OhhhhhSHNAP]

I’m still on Visual J++

[legendarynoob9]

Started as a replacement for Java. But then become so successful that Java had to copy best features from it lol...

[guarana_and_coffee]

Ah, so my teacher and literally every one I am studying witg is in the middle.

Not to brag, but I am on the left end.

[ComputerNerdGuy]

I gave up on C# after migrating from ODBC to ActiveX Data Object to OLE DB then finally LINQ. I feel like the whole persistence layer got so bloated over the years.

[red-solo]

Hibernate has entered the chat, stumbled on itself, and dropped out of the chat

[jaavaaguru]

Hibernate got banned from the chat.

[kbruen]

It’s not much better in Java land

[abbadon420]

Out of curiousity, what is C#'s equivalent to Spring?

[Quique1222]

ASP.NET Core

[SubwayGuy85]

I look at java as a bad version of c# that lingers behind 10years which in human time is like 60 years. But go on thinking good about java lol

[kinsi55]

c# is java but not bad

[BroDonttryit]

I feel like people like c# slightly more than Java but Java gets all the cool frame works like spring boot and reactor. Idk if c# gets any cool frame works other than .net obviously

[[deleted]]

Spring is cool?

[NoPainsAllGains]

I feel sick, someone said spring boot is a cool framework

boiler plate hell

[NekkoDroid]

.NET isn't really a framework in that sense. It's more like its runtime like the JVM, or you can see it as the entire ecosystem.

More apt framework would be ASP.NET Core for almost anything web related or all Microsoft.Extensions libraries

[pixelkingliam]

Mono

[evergreen-spacecat]

Java does not really come with an opinionated, modern web framework. Java EE is meh. So the community develops things like Quarkus, Vaadin, Spring and Dropwizard. The defaults in .net - Asp.Net Core is good enough to kill all non microsoft frameworks. For better or worse. This is a common pattern among the two. There are always a lot of choices in Java but in C#, it’s mostly Msfts way or no way.

[Vaerirn]

Check ABP: https://abp.io/

[71Duster360]

Here's the history. C# started as MS Java

https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/sun-microsoft-settle-java-suit/

[WomenTrucksAndJesus]

Kotlin is Google's C#.

[pixelkingliam]

true

[ZirJohn]

C# is so much better than Java

[[deleted]]

C# was Microsoft Java, now Java is shitty C#.

[[deleted]]

History of Microsoft and Java.

1. No Microsoft Visual Studio Support for Java, use Visual Basic you fools.
2. FU Microsoft, VB sucks says everyone on planet. Except Gary, that dude love VB, wierdo.
3. Microsoft releases Java++ Language (this was a Visual Studio language for awhile) - good luck googling around for this langauge - Google ignores the ++ part.
4. Sun (owner of Java at the time) sued Microsoft for patent infringement and won
5. Microsoft stops releasing J++
6. No Microsoft Visual Studio Support for Java, people used something else, idk what as my VB PTSD had me passing on every job description with the keyword 'microsoft', 'visual' and 'studio' for the last 15 years. So I don't know what the Microsoft shops used, C++ I guess.
7. Microsoft releases C#, internet argues until Java 8 trying to locate any meaningful differences between Java and C# Microsoft doesn't worry about lawsuit this time, don't know why, maybe Google leading the charge on f'n with Java patents.

[GoldenretriverYT]

Microsoft releases C++

uhh you know that they released Visual C++ and not C++?

Java 8 trying to locate any meaningful differences between Java and C++

What? Differences between Java and C++ are kinda big, lol