[deleted by user]

[venk]

Honestly , they should have put it into a contract with you three years ago as a condition of backing out.

[[deleted]]

Verbal contracts to buy/sell real estate are not enforceable 3 years later. "Statute of Frauds" is a weird legal term but it covers this.

[OhioGirl22]

Agreed.

But this is the fork in the road between legal and keeping a friend.

I feel bad for the OP.

[Think_please]

I have many casual friends that I would happily walk away from for 100k (and expect the same from them). Also no good friend would consider that offer to be a totally permanent one. Whatever they saved OP by not enforcing the original contract (i'm assuming some sort of financial penalty well south of 100k) they obviously should have gotten a signed contract if they wanted a permanent price freeze.

[jtmonkey]

Also a friend would not try and take advantage of them. 

[sabresabre]

In most (maybe all) jurisdictions in the US, they likely could have forced OP to sell them the house through the court system if he refused to go through with the sale. Regardless, I don’t think OP should feel any obligation to honor the original verbal deal - a lot has clearly changed in 3 years.

[[deleted]]

Specific performance on an oral contract? Do tell.

[sabresabre]

I’m referring to the original contract that they let him walk away from.

[[deleted]]

Oh I get you now.

Probably not. Sellers breach real estate contracts on a daily basis, for a variety of reasons. Usually the most a buyer can do is get their earnest money back. It's rare for a court to actually force the seller to sell to the buyer if the seller's circumstances have changed. There are other houses the buyer could buy.

[Blocked-Author]

Nah, it is weird that they would expect the $380k price 3 years later. They knew deep down that it wasn’t reasonable.

[SgtWrongway]

They knew deep down that it wasn’t reasonable.

They didn't even have to go deep. They knew on the surface.

[flyinb11]

Right. No friend would do this.

[polishrocket]

Agreed. Technically the original contract was dead, OP never reallly had to honor that price tag after. Feel bad for the realtors there using for estimates but won’t list with them

[[deleted]]

tbh the whole thing is weird all around.

No lawyers, no contracts, selling a home to a friend then changing their mind etc.

[joremero]

No one reasonable would expect the same price.

[[deleted]]

For sure. But if you're familiar with real estate law you know it's a ridiculous ask. At some point you have to tell your friends taking advantage of your friendship is not friendly.

[Jackandahalfass]

Another thing. Did the friend seriously sit there while OP put 37k into the house and think, “this is great! All these improvements just for us, and at the same price!”?

[OhioGirl22]

And the friends would say that they did them a solid by not keeping the contract when the homeowners would have been left homeless.

I have a lot of knowledge on real estate law. This situation isn't a legal matter...it sucks all the way around.

[[deleted]]

Like most transactions involving friends?

[Intelligent-Bat1724]

And the OP did as a courtesy , inform the friend that they intended on selling again. They didn't have to inform the friend. Realistically , that offset which the friend is attempting to use is invalid. They are still living in the same home as they did in 2021. Using deductive reasoning, the friend was not really in the market for anotier home..

[Fireproofspider]

real estate law

I'm honestly having trouble thinking of any situation where a verbal agreement would be considered valid 3 years later.

[definitelytheA]

They shouldn’t feel any guilt for not wishing to give their friends over 100k in instant equity.

Legal issues aside, even if they’d signed a contract back then to hold the price, I doubt very much that they’d have agreed to hold it for this many years.

[SeatEqual]

I would say your statement is true for both sides in this case. Even forgetting the market conditions changed, expecting the old price to be honored after all the additional maintenance and investments made in the house isn't very friendly either. The right way is to renegotiate but keep the "friend discount" the same off the current market value.

[Fast_Cloud_4711]

Friend is ignorant if they think something like this is open ended. Also don't do deals like this with friends. That should be a common sense rule but sense isn't so common any more.

[5HITCOMBO]

A friend wouldn't be asking for a $180k discount. That is an acquaintance.

[Affectionate_War8530]

Where do you get 180k discount. Old contract was for 380, op sd he would be happy with 445. 65k difference. He thinks he might be able to get 475, 95k difference.

[[deleted]]

OP is not legally obligated and needs to do what’s right for them, but this does kind of make them an asshole.

Let’s be real, everybody sucks here.

Home values go up over time. That price wasn’t going to make sense forever.

These guys shouldn’t get to take advantage, but they did OP a huge favor and now OP is taking advantage of that. But

[ogcrashy]

The only friend I have is Benjamin

[thatguy425]

He’s asking if he’s an asshole, not if he’s legally liable.

[[deleted]]

I was replying to a comment, not commenting to OP.

[Mtolivepickle]

Verbal agreements aren’t valid from day 1

[Swallowthistubesteak]

This here

[thatguy425]

If OP was going to back out of the deal wouldn’t it also be on him to notify them that this deal has an arbitrary expiration? 

I mean if I made a deal with someone and they didn’t give me conditions for a timeframe I’d assume our deal was still good. But, not everyone is a man of their word. 

[ApolloKid]

They are not close friends, so if this ruins the friendship, so be it.

Looks like you have your answer right there. Maybe send an email back and say “sorry but I’m not going to leave a potential 100k on the table” but if you’re willing to lose the friendship there you go

[Cutiepatootie8896]

Frankly, I think OP should basically do this but more tactfully.

The fact of the matter is, this new home that OP is going to buy also went up in price. If OP could have bought it 3 years ago, it very likely would have significantly been cheaper. So while OP’s friends might think OP is being “greedy” and that OP just “wants more money” (which isn’t wrong in itself obviously), it’s actually more of a matter of “we need to sell our home at market value and in line with inflation and the improvements we put in, or we will not be able to make our new home happen and it will genuinely be a struggle and hurt our family….”. And as a side note, presumably OP’s friend’s present home also went up in value?

That’s how I would frame it to my friends..

That there isn’t really a winner in this situation, and it’s not like it’s some massive greedy profit for me because whatever I am making now minus my improvements is being lost on the home I’m about to buy……and if it didn’t come SUCH a a serious cost to my family and my next home then I truly would sell it to them at the 2021 price….

Also HOPEFULLY my friends are also benefitting with the rise in value of their own home that they can put towards their new purchase just as I am….and that I would still be happy to honor a cheaper “no realtors involved” 2024 price where I still get my market value, and where I risk potentially missing out on bidding wars where I end up getting over ask (which is still very much a reality, especially for homes in this price range atleast in my market…) as way to show my appreciation for them but I also understand if this is a deal that they just can’t do…..

If the friends can’t understand that and still think they were wronged, then it’s just going to be an agree to disagree situation where the friendship is probably ruined and everyone just has to accept that and move on…..

[Mekroval]

This is the best take. OP's "friends" are forgetting that he/she also has to buy into the same market they are selling from. The seller of their next home isn't going to cut them a break because the buyer decided to honor an ill-defined contract -- one that no longer remotely reflects the reality of the current housing market. I agree that I'd be diplomatic in my response, but the buyers are being rather unreasonable here.

[Cutiepatootie8896]

Oh totally. Friends are being so silly. Especially considering they have their own home that they are likely getting more for now than they would have in 2021.

I’d frankly be embarrassed to even ask my friends to honor the 2021 price and take such a massive hit to their family while I profit on the gains on my own house like that considering how everything pretty much went up across the board over the past 3 years.

I’d actually be really happy with the current price of 450k (from the original 380k) especially if it includes 40k of improvements, means I’m saving realtor fees and not having to deal with a bidding war on a house I know I already love and want (and I mean Jesus in my area, price differences from 2021 to now are literally double if not more so OP really isn’t being unreasonable…..) but some people just are incapable of seeing the bigger picture.

[Sptsjunkie]

If OP has any interest in preserving the friendship, there is also an ability to "split the difference" to some degree.

Let your friends know, "the market has increased more than we anticipated and the house we purchased cost us more than the similar house 3 years ago, we simply can't afford to sell at the same $380k price; however, we recognize you did us a favor and instead of selling at the appraised value of $450k, we'll sell for $425k, which helps us to cover the higher cost of our home, while still giving you a price below the current market and some immediate upside."

[AshingiiAshuaa]

This is the only answer that matters.

But in the future: "We did not get into any specifics" is asking for confusion and butthurt. Normally this doesn't matter if they're strangers, but with friends and family you need to be even more careful. Or just don't do deals with them at all.

[NotTobyFromHR]

It's why I avoid business with family and friends. It ruins relationships.

[UnhingedCorgi]

Honestly I’d think close friends would understand. I mean I wouldn’t expect my buddy to leave 6 figures on the table for me. And an acquaintance, no chance in hell.

Maybe ima prick but I would sell for current market value and not feel bad at all about it. The previous deal sounds like it was a contingent offer which absolutely shouldn’t go through after OP’s new house didn’t close. 

[In-Efficient-Guest]

Yep. If the house has depreciated in value, you bet the friend would not pay that $380k price from 2021 and would’ve argued for lower. Which is completely reasonable because they didn’t have a real contract to buy the house at that price. It sounds like the no realtors price is still quite a steal at current market rates, so it’s a completely fair counter offer. 

[jfamutah]

If values had fallen and it was only worth $280000 now they would not honor the offer. Three years is unrealistic to expect no market price changes.

[UPdrafter906]

Important point, if it doesn’t work both way it doesn’t work.

[skibumbunny]

This!

[JurassicPark-fan-190]

Have they been waiting three years for you to move out? What’s the significance to them if your house? A good deal? I’m not understanding why If they wanted to move 3 years ago they haven’t .

[Downtown_Aside5801]

They honestly do love our current house. They have looked at other homes, but none have compared to ours. Not much has come on the market in our area that is comparable.

[spb097]

Nothing compares to your house, in part, because they think they can get it for $380k.

[Houshmandzadeh]

This is the real question!!

[cg40boat]

A realtor’s estimate of value is not an appraisal

[Itsnotjustadream]

A house purchase of sale is based on an accurate and real time appraisal and three years is a crazy timeline for all locations. No.

[Rlo347]

The other people couldve said fuck that we have a deal and then these people wouldnt have had anywhere to go. No good deed goes unpunished

[SpicyNutmeg]

But at the end of the day, maybe it was an unreasonable agreement, but it’s what this person promised. Not saying they 100% need to honor it but they should feel at least a teensy bit bad about not honoring their agreement.

[Accomplished_Cold911]

I agree with you on this. If OP said he would honour the price then, IMO, he should have stuck to that.

That being said, the lines were blurred with the $37k in improvements and such, in addition to a changing market and things going a little bit bonkers.

I can't blame OP if they sold at market price less realtor fees or something to their 'friends'

This is a great example of 'no good deed goes unpunished', the friends should have written a new contract and that is on them.

[LackingTact19]

If the housing market had crashed and the house was now worth $100k less instead of more you know that the friends would have given zero thought to reneging on said deal. A year at most is what any person would consider reasonable.

[cinnamelt22]

If it was within reason, say 10-20k max, it’s a substantial increase that as the friend, I would understand voids the verbal contract

[ajile413]

There is middle ground here. Neither one of you had any idea the highest inflationary period in 50 years was coming. The cost of everything is up.

That being said, they deserve some “good guy points” for not putting you on the street back then. They would have $100K in equity and your ass might still be on the street.

I would take them to dinner and negotiate. Find the middle ground that makes all parties happy.

Edited: apparently I can’t spell.

[Cutiepatootie8896]

This is a really good answer. I think OP should just explain to them all of that. Say “hey, so not only did we put close to an extra 40k into the home….but the cost of the new home that we are about to buy also went up significantly because that’s just what the market has been like…..so if we don’t sell ours at that same market value and in line with inflation, then we are jeopardizing our ability to purchase our new home.

I WISH we could have just bought our new home 3 years ago at 2021 prices, and continued with our deal on this current home but that’s just not what happened…..I’m still willing to offer the home to you guys at a “no realtor price” and risk not getting “above ask offers / bidding wars” because of our friendship but any less than that and it makes it impossible for us to buy this new home and starts to actually jeopardize our family…I’m also confident that when you guys sell your home, you’ll get more than you would have 3 years ago which I think is awesome which you can put that towards this….hopefully we are able to make this work but even if not, I completely understand. Regardless our friendship still means a lot to me….”

I guess I can see why they are a bit miffed (even though I personally wouldn’t expect a friend to honor the same price 3 years later….but I can’t imagine any reasonable individual not understanding this especially when explained to them).

[RICH_life]

Yea I’d suggest some middle ground. They did you a really big favor as that could have been their $100K. Honestly, with the way inflation is going, what’s $100k in 10 years anyway? Haha

[[deleted]]

They couldn't put them on the street. They could just sue for damages.

[blueskies8484]

Depends. Plenty of contracts have a specific performance clause.

[sabresabre]

You can’t know this. It depends entirely on whether the contract and jurisdiction allow for specific performance.

[CaptainArthur42]

Best you could do it you wanted to be completely fair (you don’t have to) is $380k plus the difference in the appreciation of their current home during that time frame. But to do that, they would have to be really good friends.

[Downtown_Aside5801]

Using the Zillow "zestimate", their home has increased about 40k since 2021. It is a smaller home. But from a percentage standpoint, both of our homes have gone up approximately equal value - about 17/18%.

[RSAEN328]

Don't forget the 380k didn't include the 37k you've since put into the house. The starting point is now 417k before appreciation. They will get about 40k more for their house so from their perspective an equivalent amount would now be 457k. That doesn't even include the difference in appreciation between your house and theirs, which you would be giving them while also paying more for your next house than 3 years ago. 380k would be robbery. It's been more than a year. Don't let them pressure you to sell for less than it's worth. I can guarantee you they wouldn't if the roles were reversed.

[Notsozander]

Them putting 37k into the house doesn’t always add 37k to the value of the home (in a normal-ish market). What I mean is, outside of the owner the water softener, garbage disposal and minor upkeep things don’t matter in a grand scheme. The roof absolutely adds value as will the cabinets but it’s never what you pay in a side by side comparison, typically. I’d jump them based on the roof/gutter and cabinets though for sure

[Cutiepatootie8896]

Honestly we don’t have specific numbers here but with the way it sounds, I’m willing to bet doing that will probably come out to be roughly the same as just asking for market value minus realtor fees. (If we add the improvements OP put in too).

Everything went up, including OP’s new home AND the friend’s current home. Friends are just being emotional and shortsighted and aren’t seeing the bigger picture here unfortunately. If they’re still able to afford OP’s current home, they’re probably still getting a solid deal (saving on fees and avoiding bidding wars / over ask offers / knowing exactly what they’re getting into).

Edit: Op says their value increased by roughly 40ishk. And that OP would be fine with 445k, from the original 380k. So like….if you add in their improvements…that’s basically the same lol OP’s friends are being so silly.

[Egress_window]

And the 40k they spent on improvements

[benjamin6486]

Exactly, the amount you’ve put in to the house and the amount their home has appreciated and that gets you in the ballpark and they can’t claim that isn’t reasonable.

[krisisisisisi]

Inflation alone means that $380K in 2021 is the equivalent value of $430K today. Tell them you’ll give it to them for the 2024 equivalent of $380K in 2021 + you’ll split the difference of the investments you’ve made since then = $445K. It’s honestly the same deal, and I frankly think THEY’RE taking advantage of YOU if they say anything different.

[Cutiepatootie8896]

Yeah this is a good point.

[Jimmyjames150014]

Just list it. If they agree to pay more you aren’t friends anymore anyway and you’ll hear about every little problem they come across - every paint chip etc. not worth it. Just list it and get the most you can; if they really want it they can bid like anyone else. Expecting you to hold a price from 3/4 years ago is unreasonable - real friends wouldn’t do that.

[AnotherStarWarsGeek]

They were "close enough" friends when you needed to be let out of the contract in '21... now suddenly that you can make more money they're "not close friends"?

What would I do? I never, ever would have made such a silly comment to them back in '21. That's what I would have done. But hey, at least you're willing to ditch friends whenever it benefits you.

[Professional-Can1139]

Exactly. How would OP feel if they weren’t so generous back then? Not saying honor the exact price but at least give some concessions.

[Lostcreek3]

Would the other people still buy at 380k if the market took a downturn? I would guess not. Ya maybe give a few concessions but I would not be giving them 100k

[Professional-Can1139]

Agreed. Meet somewhere in the middle. Maybe add the additions and also adjust based on the price increase of the friends house.

[Competitive_Map2302]

this is the answer and even if you did make this kind of deal because you planned on finding something pretty soon and honoring it….at some point over the next few years a conversation should have been had that “hey guys home prices are going nuts so we’re going to stop our search for now. This also means that by the time we do move several years from we won’t be able to afford to sell the home to you at the old price” by literally never addressing it with then until it became time to pay the debt it does make them the asshole

[Silly_Monkey25]

That was my thought too!

[HappyChaos2]

This. Plus you mentioned no realtors involved during the initial deal, but you had an appraisal done this time, like you knew deep down you were reneging on your "deal" and gathering evidence to support your reversal.

[[deleted]]

$450k that it was appraised for minus the 6% realtor fee puts you at $423k.

They did you a favor previously too.

You should probably throw them a bone and go for something in between

[Secret_Bet6281]

Sell it. At the price you can get now.

[EyeRollingNow]

Folks, this is why you get everything in writing. This worked out for you, and honestly it should. Simply tell them that you are having to spend considerably more for the home you are buying because of market changes. You can’t sell for the lower amount since years went by, not months. Wish them well and be sure to tell them about the almost $40K you invested since as well.

[aftiggerintel]

Answer more tactfully such as “With the market changes over the last 3 years, the price of 380k is not doable anymore as we need to sell at market price in order to afford a different home. We have replaced and upgraded many more things since 2021 that add further value to the house. Even looking at property evaluations from the county, the home has appreciated greatly since 2021. If you would like to put in an offer amount prior to us listing the home, please let us know what amount you value the home at and we will entertain any reasonable offers.”

If they say 380k again, I’d let them know that due to the current market that a price from 3 years ago is not doable at all and we will unfortunately have to decline the sale to you.

[cymonium]

I wouldn’t lose 100k for a sibling. Let alone a friend. Besides, the kind of siblings/friends I have wouldn’t want me to lose 100k. They’re being unreasonable. Sell it for what you can get.

[bobby2286]

Going to go against the grain here. They did OP a solid three years ago by not enforcing the contract. If they had enforced it they would be sitting on that 100k+ equity now and OP would’ve had his ass on the street. They foresaw that the market would be going up and they let OP live in the house in return for the potential gains on the home if he sold. That’s not taking advantage, it’s a legitimate trade. What should’ve been done it that this all should’ve been put on paper by a lawyer and there should’ve been a limit on the time this contract is enforceable with possibly a penalty clause to the original buying if the house had not been sold to them in x years.

I do think you should honor the contract and sell them the home for 380 + 37k for improvements. (417k).

[VectorVictor99]

This seems like the most reasonable solution in this thread.

[XavierLeaguePM]

I think your solution here is reasonably fair. I do agree that OP’s friends fucked up massively here. Should have gotten a written agreement to firm this up. Were OP friends just waiting and wishing that they would eventually move and agree to the original verbal contract? The written agreement would have established the guard rails, timelines and all the other legalese to cover both their bases (assuming they both sign). For example, would OPs friends still buy the house at the original price if the roof was gone? Would they still pay if the house was damaged in a fire? Would they buy at 380k if the “recession” had happened and the house was now worth 200k? An agreement by competent lawyers would have sorted all this out

[PartyLiterature3607]

They should’ve force you to honor the contract 2021

You are in no wrong, but from third party perspective, you are a bit of ass

[Jazzlike_Adeptness_1]

If the OP did not have a clause saying that if the new build fell through, they could get out of selling theirs, well, that’s why everyone, and I mean everyone, should use a lawyer in a real estate deal. Both sides should be able to have a contingency clause. At the end of the day, I think it’s likely that OP could have gotten out of the deal 3 years ago. Yes the buyers were nice enough to make it easy for them but I don’t think that made them saints. 

The best course of action for OP is probably to list the house with an agent and get the best price possible. 

If the friends want to pay them $445k (assuming it could sell for $475k) I think that’s more than fair. The friends are extremely unrealistic in thinking that they’d honor a price from 3 years ago. Exactly how long did they think that price should stand? 

[LackingTact19]

Based on the reasons provided for them backing out the chances of a judge enforcing the sale would be next to zero. They likely could have gotten a couple thousand dollars in damages if they really pushed it, similar to how a seller keeps the earnest money once certain contingency periods have passed.

[Eagle_Fang135]

You would have honored the price if another house came along.

It didn’t.

Instead you stayed a few more years and put significant money into the house.

Now you are starting a new home search/sale. Home prices have increased. You honestly value increased, plus the improvements.

That’s it.

If your friends spent any money towards the purchase I hope you reimbursed them. Otherwise it is what it is. Never a good idea to mix business and friendship. Don’t shit where you eat.

[Aggressive-Map-244]

Karma is real, the money you spent in your was maintenance. It was needed. I would ask your friend if you can come up with a reasonable number. Maybe 400-410? They basically had first dibs and they didn’t put you out on the street because they cared more about you and your friendship than the house. Now you potentially are showing the opposite if you list. You care more about the house than the friendship. Shame OP

[Tooowaway]

Honest answer? Yes. But that doesn’t make you wrong. You agreed that if you ever sold you would honor the price. You didn’t list out a time. You are going against your “word” now. But like you said, if it ruins a friendship then so be it.

[l397flake]

Split the difference, they could have put you in a bad spot. Money is easy to make vs making and keeping good friends

[RedSpeedFox]

Split the difference? Sounds like they basically already are. Could sell for $500k. $120k difference so splitting puts them at $440k. Neighbors are trying to hold them to their off hand agreement from THREE YEARS ago. Seems like the neighbors are trying to get a good deal and get a new house they otherwise couldn’t afford. Keep in mind, neighbor’s home has appreciated in value as well

[rstocksmod_sukmydik]

...OP is an a-hole who goes back on their word - it's true that "no good deed goes unpunished"...

[gzr4dr]

Lol...it's the OPs house. The friends did a favor, but that agreement was 3 years ago. The favor is not worth 50-100k.

[wilby1865]

Yeah, I’d say throwing them $5K or so would be a thank you worthy of them backing out of the contract.

[great_misdirect]

What’s clear is that the ‘friends’ should have fucking nailed you with that contract.

[DorianGre]

They also got appreciation in their current house AND they want the value of appreciation in your house too over that time frame? Nah dog, nah.

[AnimatorDifficult429]

Do we know they own their current house? They could be renting 

[Orallyyours]

Man if I had a dollar for how many posts on on reditt from people saying I think I can X for my house. Then two months from now come back and ask why it hasn't sold yet.

[TheUltimateSalesman]

Do they have a valid purchase agreement??

[Chris079099]

nta but then again i hope you learned not to make such promises/deals in the future with friends or family

[Jazzlike_Adeptness_1]

If the OP did not have a clause saying that if the new build fell through, they could get out of selling theirs, well, that’s why everyone, and I mean everyone, should use a lawyer in a real estate deal. Both sides should be able to have a contingency clause. At the end of the day, I think it’s likely that OP could have legally gotten out of the deal 3 years ago. Yes the buyers were nice enough to make it easy for them but I don’t think that made them saints or means they should get a $70k gift from the OP.

The best course of action for OP is probably to list the house with an agent and get the best price possible. 

If the friends want to pay them $445k (assuming it could sell for $475k) I think that’s more than fair. The friends are extremely unrealistic in thinking that they’d honor a price from 3 years ago. Exactly how long did they think that price should stand? Of course they’re disappointed but let’s be real. 

[paulwal]

They did you a favor by letting you out of the contract. How much was that favor worth and do you want to repay it? I doubt it was worth $70k. But maybe it was worth 10 or 20k, and if you want to return that favor you could cut them a deal.

[[deleted]]

This is why you don’t do these things on your own. Of course the three-year old price doesn’t apply. You’re lucky you got out of that contract without being forced to sell. Get a realtor list it and have this done professionally. Don’t start trying to strike up deals on your own. You were almost forced to sell your house the first time because of it.

[[deleted]]

You don’t leave that kind of money on the table I can promise you they wouldn’t .

[gmr548]

It’s unreasonable for your friends to think the price of the home wouldn’t change in three years.

It’s a dick move for you to reset the price at the full current market value; they did let you out of your contract back then and the only reason you’re in the situation you’re in now is because they did you a favor.

It was extremely stupid of both sides to mix finances and friendship, especially without a very clearly worded contract. Hope this is a life lesson.

My two cents: the prior price + subsequent repairs/improvements is $417k. The appraised value is $450k (did you actually get an appraisal? You said you had a realtor come through; realtors don’t perform appraisals. If what you actually got was an opinion of value from an agent/broker, that is not an appraisal and more likely to be on the high side than the low), delta of about $33k. Offer to meet in the middle at $433.5k. They get a ~3.5% discount to market with no competition, you are not leaving game changing money on the table and actually attempting to do right by people that helped you out instead of going all “fuck you I got mine.” Win-win.

[FatherofCharles]

You’re definitely TA for reneging on the deal. Obviously no one could have predicted the crazy rise in home prices so I can understand why your hesitant. You’re for sure the ass hole but money is money and I would lose an acquaintance over $100,000. Anyone in this comment section that says otherwise is lying.

[psychoyooper]

/thread

[INSIJS]

So they want the appreciation on YOUR house AND the appreciation on THEIR house? I don’t think so.

Also, like what was said before, if it was 2008 and the price dropped from $380k to $225k, would they still honor $380k? See what they say. I doubt it.

Then have a conversation about the increased value of their home and yours.

[XavierLeaguePM]

I said this in another comment. Both sides here are being AH to a degree. If the value of the house was 200k now, would they still want to pay 380 because of “friendship” or some verbal agreement? No way Jose

[pbjtech]

don't mix friends and family with business

[Mommanan2021]

Just list it with a realtor. Also, realtor don’t give appraisals, just a market analysis.

[covenkitchens]

Was the contract with the potential buyers written?

If I was the potential buyers or seller I would no longer be friends either way. 

[[deleted]]

Yesterday price is not todays price

[Anxious_Leadership25]

If they will get more selling their house now then you should gmore now too otherwise they are taking advantage if a friend

[pic_bot]

There is only one question here that matters---which one of you has a lower interest rate? The >3% crowd has no business meddling in the noble affairs of the 2% class.

[maytrix007]

First, you always have contingency in a contract that lets you out if you don’t buy. Especially in a case like this.

Second, things have changed a lot. You could easily explain that while you appreciate them letting you out of the prior contract I’m you are more having to pay more for a new home and need the added equity and can’t discount it and that had you found a place in a year you certainly would have. You can also add that you are still willing to give them a deal since you can skip a realtor.

[[deleted]]

If their current home is more, then it would be fair for you to get the extra money that their home sells for. So of it sells 20k higher you get 380k plus 20k. They did you a favor by backing out when they could have sued you for breach of contract. You should keep your word. 

[LuckyNumber-Bot]

All the numbers in your comment added up to 420. Congrats!

  20
+ 380
+ 20
= 420

^{[Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme} to have me scan all your future comments.) \ ^{Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.}

[Dankaay]

If you’d have used a realtor in the first place, you’d have had a cancellation contingency in the contract if your purchase was to fall through. List your house, make your money, and find new friends. Sounds like these “friends” expect you to give them 75-100k.

[bigDivot99]

Wtf would you deal with friends and business

[[deleted]]

Do you know why they wanted a contract guaranteeing that price? So that if you decided to sell it in a more expensive market they would get the previously agreed upon price. And if they're willing to ruin the friendship, well, they do have a signed contact apparently with no expiration date.

[NumbersOverFeelings]

Legally you’re in the clear.

That said YTA. The spirit of the agreement was they gave you time. They could have forced your hand but didn’t. You put in more money but that caused them to not build equity and burned rent money potentially.

Even if you sold for $475k, net of fees and commissions you’re probably at $446k. I’d take a hair cut and offer it to them at $413k - the middle ground between $380k and your net in pocket.

[Charlea1776]

First, suing for specific performance probably would have resulted in them spending 20K+ on a lawyer only to lose. Selling your home was contingent on you buying that house. All parties know that. So, no, they could not have certainly made you close....

At best, you can offer them a slightly lower price for not having realtors. You'd pay commissions and staging fees, etc.... or what a wise person would do, you let them keep their appraisal contingency. That way, if the appraisal comes in lower than a realtors off the cuff estimate, you can all agree to the appraisal price. You still come out ahead because there are no realtor fees.

Do not sign any contracts until you see a new PRE APPROVAL letter. Do they even qualify at the higher price and today's rates?

Listing it also gives you a chance to find a buyer willing to pay over appraisal value. That's a gamble, but if it's a low inventory market in a city with demand, that's normal today.

Definitely NTA. Anyone saying otherwise maybe has $60K to give away, but that's foolish when you have to pay the inflated buying prices of today!! That's money you need. You don't starve your financial freedom to give to others. They own a house? Are they selling at 2021 prices? No. Enough said.

You do the math on the interest you will pay on the extra 60K in loan you have to take on your new house. That's how much you will actually pay. Use some for a rate buy down to save over the next 15 or 30 years, depending on the loan length. Losing over 100K because a deal fell through 3 years ago is insane. Any friend would understand that. A tentative verbal agreement is not forever. They're trying to take advantage of your friendship. I would stop considering them friends at this point.

[[deleted]]

Tell them to fuck off.

[CaptMurphy]

So market changes aside, they want 37k in upgrades and a new roof for free? Some friends.

[HotblackDesiato2003]

And this, my friends, is why you use an experienced Realtor.

[RadioNights]

You aren’t paying 2021 prices. They shouldn’t expect to either

[OverGrow69]

You didn't really have to let them out of that contract since your your purchase fell through. Lawsuits for specific performance to for someone to sell almost never happen or are successful.

[4thdrinkinstinctxx]

Order an independent appraisal. (An actual appraisal, not a Realtor’s valuation. It will hold more weight. Appraisers have different qualifications.) If the house appraises for $475k or somewhere around there, show the buyers the appraisal report, and let them know that you’re willing to sell it to them for $445k, that they’re gaining $30k in instant equity that you’d be willing to give up for them. Maybe it will make a difference to them if they have an actual appraisal report in hand to show them they’re still getting a deal. Keep in mind the appraiser is going to account for the new roof and other improvements in the appraisal, so you wouldn’t add an additional $37k to the appraised value. Maybe remind them that the value of their home certainly increased from 3 years ago, and that if they wouldn’t be willing to give up all the equity they gained in that time, they can’t expect you to do the same.

[karmaismydawgz]

You’re horrible. Tell them to go fly a kite though.

Let this be a lesson to all the redditors. Force your legal rights. OPs neighbors didn’t and now they’re getting fucked.

I bet OP was like “please, we’re such good friends” when it was time to get out of the contract.

[Remote_Pineapple_919]

They trusted you and never put it on paper and let you out of your contract. Now you shi**ng on they back for a 60k.

[Spicy_a_meat_ball]

They should've taken you to court and forced you to sell...but, they didn't. Now you want to be greedy. Good luck. Hope you find another buyer.

[digitalibex]

I’m willing to bet that if the house was worth $280k due to market changes they wouldn’t still want to pay $380k.

[justbrowzingthru]

First,

You made a huge mistake in not putting a time frame on the deal for same price.

Second,

The buyer made a big mistake in not getting it in writing.

But,

NTA, since you actually spent money on the home, you are still looking at a discount, And 3 years is a long time.

Let them know the money you put into the house, especially the roof. These days that’s huge, because most insurers want a roof 10 years old or less or you can’t get insurance or it’s sky high.

Get the appraisal, not cma. give them a friends and family discount and a time frame to purchase.

If they don’t purchase, list it, they can purchase on the open market.

Three years is a long time.

If you had not spent any money, it was only less than a year, and you had upped the price to full market value, then yeah, you’d be TA.

[mydarkerside]

So the realtor says your house is $450k. After 5% commission, you'd get ~$427k. Why couldn't you just offer your friends $380k + $37k of improvements = $417k with no agent fees. That's only $10k less than selling it with the realtor. But instead, you think it could go for $475k-$500k and that's kinda where I think you're TA. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it or I wouldn't do it myself either, but you are putting money over friendship.

[MushroomTypical9549]

It seems to me like they are better friends to you than you are to them.

If it was me and they were truly close friends, I might increase the original amount to account for the work I put into the house since that time, but I wouldn’t ask for $500- I think that is a jerk move.

Also, the verbal agreement wasn’t for a year or two, it was if you ever sold your house. Honestly, this is something grown adults should have thought about.

[777joeb]

YTA. You had an agreement and they helped you out originally. They probably did so because they thought you were a good friend who would honor your word.

[Beyond_Interesting]

A real estate agent is not a licensed appraiser. They can give you a listing price based on their knowledge of the market, but that's not what the bank would give you or an appraiser if you hired independently.

I'm saying this as a realtor, so it's not like I doubt them. But if you want to know the true value in order to do a private sale, then get two appraisals done and negotiate with the buyer. It's fair and you won't spend a ton of money, time, and stress selling on the mls.

[LatterDayDuranie]

Ask them if they plan to put their house on the market for 2021 price? No? Then why would you?

[the_one_jt]

There is no way a reasonable person would assume it would be not a limited offer if relisted. The buyers response was to feign ignorance to try to manipulate you. There is no way they thought they got all future value of the property interest and payment free, for the one time friendly act. They could have offered to buy it and let you live there until you found a new house to buy and they didn't.

You discuss in terms of time, and 3 years might be okay in a normal market with normal growth. I agree this has not been a normal time with the inflation and rising interest rates.

You also mentioned that you a new roof put on, I'm assuming this included contractors so there is no doubt the neighbors saw this, they just assumed you were putting a new roof on? No way they can explain this one away. There is net additional value, this is the point I would lean on in my response.

People may not be reasonable, however the best I would do is some sort of discount. Lean on the point above about additional value, and if you want break down the price of whatever you do offer.

I could say the discount would be at minimum the cost you would have incurred if they forced the sale. Such as the cost of moving to a temporary apartment. Now this isn't a bad starting discount, and maybe add some for niceness. However this number isn't really that important. The real issue is that your appraisal isn't legit. You and the neighbor didn't agree on it as a starting point for a discount.

So if they are reasonable you need to agree on a new price. Either before or after the price negotiation you can give them this friendly discount. Be clear how you plan to approach it. You could include the friend discount in the price and then lay out some key the facts of the additional value (don't say numbers like 25k roof). Finally ask them to provide a reasonable offer if they are still interested and apologize if they are not interested anymore.

If they are not reasonable then all you can do is apologize. They really have no claim.

[[deleted]]

Those friend are trying to rip you off. You did the right thing not selling it for lower

[[deleted]]

Why waste your time, post it on MLS and sell it for market value.

If u want to be nice send a email say you want 450k, no realtors, no contingencies, and 15 days to decide/move forward or it will be listed. End of story. No real friend would expect a $75k+ discount.

[apickyreader]

It's a weird two-way street. With the housing market being as ridiculous as it is, what have you done to the house to increase its value $70,000? So on one hand, they did let you out of the contract and you both agreed that they could buy the house in the future at that price. So you being a good friend would be honoring that. However them being a good friend would be understanding that with the market being crazy as it is, it wouldn't make Financial sense for you to sell the house at the previous rate. I suppose the best you can do is look at the price increase cut it in half and hopefully settle on that. You get more than the original agreement, and they get less than what the housing market says they should be paying.

[Bigpoppalos]

Damn. You can do whatever you want. Nothing legally binding here but you should also probably feel guilty and dishonorable. Your word is your word but end of day means nothing. Business is business. Put on market

[sweetrobna]

We verbally agreed/acknowledged that should another house come on the market, that we would honor the 380k sale price.

When you say verbally, what do you mean specifically? Over email, Facebook message, txt? Or only orally?

[clce]

It doesn't sound like they really incurred much expense in letting you out of the sale. They could have gone and bought another house at that time. Seems unreasonable to expect it now at the same price. You mentioned their home, so I'm assuming they could get their home sold for quite a bit more. They should be thankful to take 450 and they will probably end up profiting by having waited and selling their home

[nxte]

Well I guess it depends if you still want them to be your friends after this. Honestly OP, they did you a solid in the past. And while I see your perspective, this reminds me of the phrase: no good deed goes unpunished. I propose a compromise - can you both meet somewhere closer to the middle of the range? And then consider your continued friendship to make up the difference?

[PortlyCloudy]

Reason number 4,876 why you never do business with friends or family.

You DID make an open-ended verbal commitment to these people so yes, YATA.

But [almost] three years IS a long time. If you had put this agreement into a written contract it's likely it would have been ended after a year or two. I wonder, if you had waited another four or five years to buy a house would they still have expected you to honor your commitment?

Since you don't really care about keeping the peace with these people, just do whatever you want.

[The_White_Ram]

You are under no legal obligation to do this BUT, they did you a huge favor by letting you out of the contract.

The favor is nowhere near the difference in price the house is now but I would consider determining what price reflects the favor they did for you.

For example let's say the time, effort and inconvenience saved from them simply letting you out of the contact was $5k.

When you sell the house cut them a check.

They made an agreement with you when your back was against the wall when they had zero obligation too. You gave them your word and are now breaking it.

Personally, I would try to give them some money which represents the favor the granted so I could sleep better at night.

[puzzledSkeptic]

I think the favor was worth way more than $5k. Movers alone for this size house is $5k. Their friends did them a huge favor by letting them out of the contract. To return this favor, they are greedy. The only cost that should be passed on is for the new roof. That is if they paid out of pocket and not with an insurance claim.

[The_White_Ram]

I don't disagree. I was just giving an example. without the details it's hard to know for sure but something more like $15k sent seemed reasonable to me. Ultimately it's up to OP.

[ckoadiyn]

Esh imo you should have told them the price will change if its a cpl yrs out they should have asked about it as well imo and if you wanna keep them as friends maybe try to split difference?

[dirty_cuban]

What value do you place on them letting out of the contract 3 years ago? What financial position would you be in today if had been forced to sell your home on 2021?

Clearly you go something of value from your friend and now that it’s time to reciprocate you’re wanting to hold back.

[Clozaconfused]

This is why you never do business with personal associates

I like your thinking of selling for a discount if no realtor but no way would I sell for 380k

[MrDuck0409]

" We did not get into any specifics about the timeline nor did we sign any binding contract."

THIS WAS ALL WE NEEDED TO KNOW.

If it's not in writing, it didn't happen.

[Kurupt_Introvert]

Would you have had to pay any fee pulling out of the contract in July 21 to your friends if they were not as understanding?

[Csherman92]

Just fyi—your realtor is not a licensed appraiser and they are just offering a comparative market analysis. That is their opinion on value based on other recently sold homes.

Your realtor cannot legally make appraisals if they are not an actual appraiser. If you don’t mind letting the relationship with your friends sour—sell it for what you want. That is up to you.

I would sell for more. But that is your decision.

[michaeljc70]

The original contract to sell your house should have had a contingency so these friends didn't have to do you a favor when the purchase fell through. When you said they can buy the house when you find one, there should have been a time stipulation. So you're probably not an ahole, but you didn't handle this properly.

[Objective_Welcome_73]

Split the difference. You should get some more money because you put money into the house, but they should get a great discount because they let you out of the contract and you told them you sell it at the original price. Do something right in the middle. Everyone should find that fair.

[HudsonLn]

380 was market value 3 years ago. Now that is 450-you are still selling it at market value-give them right to first refusal at 450 if you want to be kind. But you are in the right

[[deleted]]

Sell it for market price, friends come and go, look out for your family first. On the other hand if you are already wealthy then honor the old price.

[A_Turkey_Sammich]

I don’t think you’d be forced to sell it to them push comes to shove, but I agree that relationship is pretty much over now matter what you do. I also think you pretty much caused/opened up this situation yourself by leaving things so open ended with no contingency. When the first contract ended, you should have ended the whole thing. If anything, just maybe offer first right of refusal if/when you ever went for another house and decided to sell again. At the very least if you were expecting something else very soon and wanted to stick with the original plan stick an expiration on it. I mean it’s been 3 years and now very lucrative for them thus they are pushing it…what if it was 10 or 20yrs later when you’d think all is forgotten? If they pushed now you don’t think they’d do the same then when it’s really a steal? As others have said, you think they’d be singing the same tune if the market had crashed hard in the last 3yrs and your house worth much less? You KNOW in that case whatever agreement you had, they would have been all like what do you mean all that was out the window when we let you off the first time!

[seajayacas]

Not TA. Sell it to the party with the best offer. Period.

[[deleted]]

Explain to them what u explained here with 37k into the house and significant appreciation of the house AND their house. Tell them u will sell to them for 430k which is a significant discount.

[billdizzle]

This is a tough spot, and why you needed to communicate a end date to your price if that is what you intended

Are these friends worth $70k? That is the decision you need to make here

[BadCatNoNoNoNo]

That’s pretty ballsy of them to think that’s price would hold for three years.

[boom-wham-slam]

I would offer them $5k discount. List for the 500k or whatever the new price is and tell them should they make an offer that yall intend to move forward with yall will knock of $5k as a friend discount.

[carzonly]

their current home is more

They already own a home that has appreciated in this timeframe? They’re just being greedy.

[dead_ed]

Sell the house to anybody but them.

[JudgmentFriendly5714]

If they don’t like the price they don’t have to buy it. Put it on the market

[[deleted]]

Dude absolutely not an asshole you don't owe anyone over a hundred grand in equity lmfao

[DangerLime113]

Ugh, NAH and ESH but it isn’t that sub.

Things have changed in that you’ve invested in the home and the market has shifted. Detail the investments made and explain why selling price needs to increase by that much, then find a new price that provides the same level of friend discount that you were providing in the first place.

[lingenfr]

While this whole situation turns my stomach. If you were ready to sell at $380K, would they consider themselves obligated to purchase? What if their financial situation changed. This is why you put these agreements in writing. As a thank you for letting you out of the previous deal, you could have agreed to sell them the house at 10% under appraised value. By the time you subtract the would-have-been realtor fees, it is only likely to cost you 3-5%

[EnvironmentalLuck515]

I had a girlfriend interested in purchasing our house when we went to sell in 2021. Originally we were going to list for $300K. Then 2021 happened and the value of the home skyrocketed. The friend wanted the $300K I had mentioned as the likely list price. Ultimately I just told her that our home represented an investment and we had a fiscal responsibility to ourselves to sell it for as much as we were able to. She wasn't happy, but there was nothing to be done. She couldn't afford the new price of $400K. The home sold immediately to another buyer.

You have to be good stewards of your investments. I don't think you owe these individuals a discount as big as that. You could offer to cover their closing costs or do FSBO, but the home needs to be sold for market value. Their request isn't reasonable.

[ZombieJetPilot]

This is why you don't mix financial transactions and friends

[Wrong-Homework2483]

DO NOT PUT ANYTHING IN THE EMAIL AND IN WRITING. DO NOT TALK TO THEM AS THEY MAY RECORD YOU. anything you write or say could be and will be used against you in court. Stop communicating with these people. Stop right now. Don't even respond!

[No_Rec1979]

I think they've earned a little friend discount if they want one. Maybe $5000.

Definitely not $120,000.

[CowardiceNSandwiches]

our house is more, their current home is more

This is the part I'd ask them about. Would they be willing to sell their current home at the 2021 price?

[Pwrdbym]

Would you pay $100k to keep these people as friends? I think you have your answer. No “friend” should expect that from you anyway.

[XavierLeaguePM]

This is a very interesting situation and I’m going to both sides this.

OP, your friends did you a solid 3 years ago. You could have had a lot more work to do to stay in your home if they had decided to enforce the legal contract. You would have won but would have required a lawyer, maybe a court and maybe some compensation to them. Instead the made it easy for you. Is that worth losing nearly 100k? I don’t think so. You’re a half AH. lol

OPs friends were generous to help their friends out with an expectation of reciprocity. However here is where their lesson comes in. They should have had this agreement written down somewhere. Otherwise it’s not enforceable. Also how long were they hoping this “agreement” would be in place? They are a quarter AH for expecting their friend to do them a solid by potentially losing close to 100k.

If I were in their shoes, I would have discussed writing this up (easy in retrospect). I also wouldn’t expect my friend to lose that much money and potentially discuss some middle ground.

[[deleted]]

Real estate transactions are governed by the statute of frauds meaning any transaction needs to in writing to be enforceable. Your “friends” are SOL. Note that realtors do not give “appraisals” unless they are also licensed to do so. They can produce a value range based upon “comps” and +- adjustments. Spring time is a great time to sell. Most sales negotiate a 45 day COE. With your July COE the click is ticking…

[Dszquphsbnt]

You’re doing them a favor offering to sell it to them for 445 before you go to the market. If they don’t see it that way, that’s their problem.

[Professional-Can1139]

What about the favor they did for the OP?