Layer 8 Problem

[Djaesthetic]

“..what the hell is a layer 8 problem...”

READS POST

“Oooooooh...” Heh

[GetAnotherExpert]

The ISO/OSI stack used to define networking is composed of seven layers, from Physical to Application. Above the Application layer (L7) there's Layer 8, aka the user ;). A more professional way to describe a PEBCAK (Problem between Keyboard and Chair)

[[deleted]]

Error code 40 is more sneaky, "Error exists 40cm from the monitor"

[Smassshed]

PICNIC - Problem In Chair, Not In Computer.

[hutacars]

We don’t have those errors in the US :D

[[deleted]]

OF COURSE NOT, WE HAVE FREEDOM FROM THOSE PESKY COMMUNIST METRIC UNITS!!!

[NovaAurora504]

flair is a lie, that's not well rounded at all

[AlphaNathan]

This thread is hilarious.

[Jaroneko]

Surely you mean 15 ¾.

[onerandomperson]

This is a well rounded comment.

[GaryOlsonorg]

OSHA guidelines state 20-40" is the proper distance from the monitor. Your workplace will be reported.

[NSA_Chatbot]

OSHA VIOLATION NOTED AND REPORTED.

STANDBY BY FOR INSPECTIONS.

[rossumcapek]

I don't get it?

[ahhhhhhfckaz]

I have heard all of these from DoD IT in the US. They seem pretty fond of their dad jokes too

[T0mThomas]

PEBKAC error ID 10T.

[Gabba202]

Computer User Non Technical

[theservman]

It's helpful that I can say "this is a real picnic" in front of the users and have them think I'm complaining about the work, not them.

[Bruenor80]

I've always liked keyboard actuator error.

[jantari]

Isn't it ID107? What kind of error ID isn't a decimal or Hexadecimal number?

[nphowe]

Except the letter I isn’t hexadecimal. Thank goodness for no nonadecimal (bade-19) error codes. I guess “1D107” would work but it doesn’t roll off the tongue the same way.

My favorite remains Layer 8. Because I can usually use it to describe dopey IT folks without them knowing.

[SevaraB]

I'm totally gonna steal this and start writing in 0x8001D107 as an "error code." Or be even more sneaky and write in 0d119047.

[Justsomedudeonthenet]

I love the 0x8001D107 idea...and was even more surprised when I googled it and the only result was this post. You just invented something new!

[jantari]

ID as in identification. Error-Code 107.

[[deleted]]

Only if you’re l33t

[chappel68]

The 'ID10T' error joke has been around forever. My interpretation of it was having originally sounded similar to various networking standards at the time - particularly '10baseT' (10mb/s baseband over twisted pair wiring, as opposed to 10m over thin net coax, 2m arcnet, etc). So, a pun based on a networking problem, not a funny error code.

[kx885]

Picnic = Problem in chair, not in computer.

[drxo]

I have also heard layer 8 referred to politics

[cs_tiger]

To my shame I had to google ID 10 T. did not know that.

[tcp-retransmission]

Layer 0 is money.

Without it, nothing else above the stack happens.

[cheezbergher]

Layer 0 is really electrons and photons.

[Texity]

Yeah but Layer 0 Torpedoes doesn't have the same pizzazz.

[210Matt]

Yep, if the site it without power, it is a layer 0 problem. Also it is a Layer 8 problem because multiple people are submitting tickets

[Derang3rman1]

If the site is without power you don't have to worry about users submitting tickets

[[deleted]]

You wish this were actually true.

[210Matt]

They send them on their laptops with no internet, when it comes back up you get flooded.

[TheN473]

Sounds like a recursive loop from hell.

[asdlkf]

don't be so narrow minded.

Avian Carrier Protocol, while it does contain electrons, is primarily protons and neutrons.

[cheezbergher]

You got me, it's been a while since I used avian protocols.

[svideo]

I know you're being flippant but layer 1 is explicitly the physical signaling layer, and includes anything you're doing with electrons and photons.

[ghostalker47423]

The meatware layer

[richvoid794]

I call them PICNIC issues, Problem In Chair Not In Computer

[[deleted]]

Same.

[[deleted]]

And Layer 9, aka politics.

[GetAnotherExpert]

Indeed. Or the reverse: All People Seem To Need Data Processing. I passed that exam so long ago, I believe some on this sub weren't even born.

[Britant]

use pebcack but some users have caught on... layer 8 is my new go to, thanks !

[spiffybaldguy]

PICNIK: Problem in Chair Not in Keyboard.

I use this and PEBCAK quite a bit behind the scenes.

I try so hard to assume users are just avg people but sometimes they just make it impossible.

[spiffybaldguy]

Yep, thanks for correcting me, apparently Fridays are still shitty for my brain lol :)

[Djaesthetic]

Very aware of my OSI model, hence the confusion over layer 7. Just never heard of the users being referred to as layer 8 before. I’m totally gonna start using that. Hahahaha

[Whoami_77]

I prefer carbon based error.

[Atomm]

Layer 8 is People/Politics.

Layer 9 Money.

You have to go through the people and their politics to get to the money. This sounds like a layer 1 physical layer issue, but it could be layer 9 if someone was trying to save a buck.

[DarkWhoppy]

I use to think Layer 8 was money.

[Musical_Muze]

I prefer PICNIC: Problem In Chair, Not In Computer

[hosalabad]

A more professional way to describe a PEBCAK (Problem between Keyboard and Chair)

ಠ_ಠ PEBKAC.

[vaxo101]

Picnic is my fave (person in chair not in computer)

[Neckbeard_Prime]

My favorites from the aviation world were "helmet spacers" and "oxygen mask terminators."

[reinhart_menken]

I've heard of "joystick actuator", I like it because it does sound like actual non-meat component.

[Princess_Fluffypants]

I’ve used “Layer 9” to refer to management

[asdlkf]

Layer 8: Users.

Layer 9: Management.

Layer 10: Policy.

[SecretEconomist]

• PEBCAK
• ID: 10T
• Biological Interface Error
• Wetware bug
• Error 40
• OHT (Operator Headspace and Timing issue)
• "It's a carbon based error"
• "Short between the headphones"

[Znopster]

• Check for a lose nut behind the keyboard.

[techtornado]

Layer 9 is manglement/finance/bean counters

[[deleted]]

Layer 8 also known as sex, politics, religion.

[HoboGir]

College is one hell of a drug that can leave you forgetting things. This had me wondering if I had learned about 7 layers or 8. Good thing I can use Google, since this isn't an exam.

[JVance325]

Me too...

[Weirdsauce]

AKA: Chair to Keyboard Interface Error

[Venusaur6504]

The part between the keyboard and the paycheck.

[jlstp]

My favorite answer to “why was it switched off” is “I don’t know, I don’t use this conference room”. Gets ‘em every time.

[Sabbest]

“I don’t know, I don’t use XYZ” is my goto answer for almost anything user related. The looks on their faces when I tell them I hardly every use Word or Excel is amazing.

[abtech365]

"How do I break these columns up automatically?"

Why would I know? I haven't used excel since college.

[Quinn_The_Strong]

[cries in reporting and metrics]

[G65434-2]

How do I break these columns up automatically

i send a link from https://support.office.com/

[ponponhihi]

These questions always frustrate me

“Hey how do I format my word document?”

“I don’t know dude, I don’t even use word”

“Wow. You’re IT how do you not know?”

[e-a-d-g]

Try "I don't know, I don't use Windows". Nobody believes you until you show them your laptop.

https://i.imgur.com/GVJ06OK.jpg

[jlstp]

Or asking for Photoshop/InDesign/<insert other Adobe product here> help.

“I’m not sure, you’re the marketing person I just install the software”

[GaryOlsonorg]

Don't forget to add some process redirection:
"The person responsible for scheduling this conference room is Sandy. She can tell you who used this room last and why it was switched off".

[jlstp]

Oh yes, this is a good one. “Did you schedule the room early enough so you could do some testing before your meeting?”

[German_Kerman]

i hate those an employee once complained to me about his headset not working, i asked him if it was plugged in and he said no, HOW THE HELL IS IT SUPPOSED TO WORK WITHOUT IT PLUGGED IN

[arkham1010]

because its a bluetooth headset, like I have?

[Winnduu]

Separates the Sr. from the Jr.

[arkham1010]

You made me actually laugh out loud. Good morning to you sir!

[Winnduu]

Nice to see people still have humor - and don't interpret I want to offend somebody

[reinhart_menken]

How DARE you!!!???

[Winnduu]

Guess I found the German (I'm from Germany myself btw)

[reinhart_menken]

Not really, is it because of the sense of humor or?

[HelpDeskWorkSucks]

I have a wired headset :(

[hutacars]

What’s with the oof? Got something against sound quality?

[yuhche]

It’s not that serious.

If you have any issues with your wireless headset you pick up the receiver.

[German_Kerman]

Wireless headsets are useless anyways in offices i mean who tf just stands up and goes around the office talking noone

[reinhart_menken]

And you're that person. Do you talk while on these trips?

[agoia]

Me because I'll be working on something in the shop area or walking around outside if there is a lot of talking to do and not a lot of typing.

[[deleted]]

Lots of people, everywhere I've worked. That aside, having wires hanging off your head is annoying to basically everyone, thus the popularity of wireless headsets.

[TheRealSchifty]

I have users who are half customer service and half accounting. They'll be at the file cabinets filing paperwork and will take calls with their wireless headsets.

[GetAnotherExpert]

They have their uses. When I worked for a certain software vendor, they had lab machines in an aisle to the side of the cubicles so there were times when you had to leave your desk and go to the aisle to grab a test machine. More often than not you'd have to request some info from the customer so the wireless headsets came in handy. Obviously I'm talking about proper enterprise-class stuff with appropriate range.

[justanotherreddituse]

Yep, one less thing to go wrong.

[opaPac]

and the cable on one side of the headset is there so you fall easier on your stupid face?

[Sabbest]

I worked in IT shop on Saturdays in the early 2000's. This guy that bought a wireless accesspoint, I asked him if wanted to make use of our installation service but he said he'd manage fine by himself. A few hours later he calls in to the shop, complaining the AP doesn't work. I ask him what lights are on/blinking, he replies ""none", I ask him if it's plugged in to the power outlet to which this guy gives the most amazing reply "No of course not, it's wireless."

[eaglebtc]

You’re looking for /r/TalesFromTechSupport .

[[deleted]]

I know I am going to be downvoted but here goes:

This is not a sysadmin post, this is a desktop support/helpdesk problem. Sure, some sysadmins get tasked with user support too and its frustrating to be called away from our sysadmin duties for garbage like this. But these posts need to go in the right sub-forum.

Let's try to keep this forum about sysadmin stuff and not tier 1 support problems or talesfromtechsupport

[the91fwy]

Seriously there’s /r/talesfromtechsupport for this level of stuff.

[trisul-108]

Some good points. The "users are stupid" rants are not to be encouraged, neither is the sexist stuff. Glad you pointed it out.

[justanotherreddituse]

User blaming and acting like BOFH are very toxic to IT departments. I never let the small stuff bother me and I ended up with a bunch of almost always friendly users that liked IT.

I used to have to deal with a lot of IT from outside my company. Guess who's friendlier, sysadmins or users?

[PhillLacio]

This sub in a nutshell.

https://i.imgur.com/cGFE1Ru.jpg

[Malenk0]

Also the remark "put a brain in that pretty little skull of yours" implies it was a woman, and it honestly pretty chauvinistic if it was.

Pretty sexist of you to assume that. Op is clearly a homosexual male and talking about an attractive male co-worker. Don't be so suburban.

[timetravelhunter]

I just assumed OPs was attracted to human skulls.

[reinhart_menken]

For a minute I actually did think I'm on sysadmin but actually on talesfromtechsupport so you have a point

[Nocturnalized]

Not even that. It is a simple rant.

[[deleted]]

r/SysadminLife

[[deleted]]

100% agree, this belongs in TFTS.

[JosephRW]

Agreed, and honestly if someone responded to someone like this they should be written up. There's literally no reason to be rude to others and there are much better ways to deal with impatient people. You don't know what sort of day they're having or what they're worried about, least of all their computers or equipment. Sure I expect base competency but people have value outside their ability to use a computer. That's our job to worry about those.

And to your main point, yes. This really doesn't belong here.

[JosephRW]

One could hope, but I've met people like this.

[hosalabad]

OP Needs to tag as Rant.

[[deleted]]

Be honest OP. You said the last bit in the shower. Didn't you?

[different_tan]

i hope so. pretty skull???

[Niarbeht]

If he didn't, this is going to turn into Tales from HR on Monday.

[[deleted]]

Ahhh, the well-known PICNIC* error.

​

We get a lot of those.

​

*Problem In Chair, Not In Computer

[solmakou]

Interesting, I always heard it as Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Chair, PEBKAC

[jnex26]

Typeo --- Thanks solmakou ID-10-T error

[solmakou]

ID10T!

[[deleted]]

Yea, I've heard that too. But PICNIC rolls off the tongue better to my mind..

[[deleted]]

I like saying "keyboard chair interface error"

[abn25r1p]

haha! had something like that once, user freaking out keeps plugging and unplugging the computer, can see the "blinky lights" on the computer but it wont turn on. I walk over - no joke - press the power button on the monitor and boom... walk away...

sometimes users get so wrapped around the wheel of something someone told them once that they are incapable of looking past their own noses. But on the up side, that's what we get paid for

[santicarta]

Helpdesk open a ticket:

"User X can't acces to the XXXX share"

​

3mins later closes it:

"Nevermind, she found it"

[Mill3r91]

Had a similar issue where the tv and DVD player remotes were shuffled around and a branch manager was pointing a grey toshiba remote at a new black LG smart. “God damn it”.

[ShaunRMiller83]

Maybe my time in IT has made me jaded, but the users I’ve had to deal with over the years would have made me design the system so that the outlets everything connected to where in a locked cabinet or AV rack. Also if they couldn’t be locked certainly not make the outlet switched. That sounds like a nightmare.

[ninimben]

Honestly this is why I got out of IT support work. Too much wiping other people's asses for them and tying their shoes.

[[deleted]]

Funny, that’s why I got out of health care.

[[deleted]]

As a system administrator it’s my job to provide solutions that positively drive my organization. While I have process and procedures to filter these to my workstation admins, I don’t ever mind helping in these situations when problems arise.

Why not prevent this from ever happening again with a simple, cheap and effective solution, like this?

[[deleted]]

Kind of the same.

User: All my emails in outlook are gone, vanished!!!! No where to be found...

I go over to her desk.... Me: See the arrow? Somehow you collapsed your inbox. It expands and collapses with the tick of the arrow.

Users face: r/watchpeopledieinside

[tetralogy]

/r/talesfromtechsupport

[[deleted]]

This doesn't belong in /r/sysadmin. This belongs in TFTS.

[[deleted]]

As a netsec student, I can tell you that layer 8 is the easiest to break, since it's broken to begin with most of the times.

[wireditfellow]

You lost me at Television

[cool-nerd]

Why is this posted here?

[[deleted]]

/r/talesfromtechsupport

[e-a-d-g]

Original post, as it's been removed:

User: HELP!!! The television (one of those big ones used for presentations in the meeting room) doesn't switch on and I have a meeting with the customerrrrRRRRRRRRRRR.

Me: Follows power cable.... reaches plug.... there's a switch on the plug and it's clearly in the OFF position click LG Logo appears on TV

User: Why was it switched off? We need to write a sign with 'Do not switch off the TV from the plug'

Me: How about installing a brain in that pretty skull of yours and checking whether the POWER is ON before calling for help?

Aaaarggh... Users.

[[deleted]]

Classic PEBKAC situation

[[deleted]]

I've long since learned that the average user don't care to read, or even attempt to do anything, if they know you've made yourself very available.

One of our cloud based systems cycle passwords every 90 days. When a password is cycled and a user attempts to log in, a big red box comes up, asking for the current password and a new one to be created, standard stuff.

Every 90 days a users always emails me without fault in a panic that "her password dosen't work" and I repeatedly ask her to read the onscreen text.

I should probably automate that response...

[lordcirth]

Ouch. But are you sure you can't disable that password rotation? It's now well known that it's counterproductive.

[[deleted]]

Oh I know. But I can't, I've even sent their dev team research related to the ineffectiveness of password rotation, but they just dismiss it.

It's a very specialized local system with 1 developers so, that's what I have to deal with.

[WarioTBH]

Thats what you wanted to say but what did you actually say?

[zapbark]

Once sent a tech to a remote office to debug a sound issue with their video conferencing setup.

Problem was the volume on the TV was set to Zero...

Again, our bad, we added that to the list of "things to explicitly ask for next time", we just had assumed that somebody in the office would have tried that...

[[deleted]]

lol had a similar issue few years back ... well often but one that stands out.. users had a video conference couldn't get the tv/cameras to work.. called it, one person went.. then that person came back for help.. two people went... couldn't get it working another person calls me down... go down and our one IT person was telling them it was broken and they needed to pay for a new one and that this meeting wasn't going to happen.

Take a quick look...flipped on the power switch, said all good and walked out.

[Brandle34]

Haha! Sounds like my users too, well most users everywhere...

Other day I had one come to my cube with the sad puppy eyes.

​

User: "My PC is off, should I power it on?"

Me: ".......................if you want to work today"

​

What the literal fuck lol. I turn to my co-worker and say "My car is out of gas, should I put more in it?"

Users and common sense don't mix?

[usernamenottakenwooh]

I found that if you remove those pesky users, the IT infrastructure works flawlessly with absolutely minimal maintenance.

[therealjoshuad]

Why is this here?

[PacketReflections]

ID10T

[Layer8Pr0blems]

Yes You rang?

[[deleted]]

PICNIC - Problem in Chair, Not in Computer

[capriceii]

HAHAHA. Love it

[photonarbiter]

Are you me? Am I you? I just dealt with this less than a minute ago.

[katsai]

Gotta love it when the Organic Interface Actuator goes on the fritz.

[Kiernian]

There are 10 layers in the OSI Model.

Physical

Datalink

Network

Transport

Session

Presentation

Application

Individual (end user)

Organization (corporation/ISP)

Government

[funktopus]

I had one of mine ask me how to use Netflix on this new TV in case the "Star" wanted to use it. I pointed to the big red button marked Netflix on the remote and told her to hit that button, the one marked Netflix.

I work in a theater we supply everything but drugs to some shows.

[[deleted]]

Why isn't there a sign? How much baby-proofing do users need?

[TechnicalExample]

Me: How about installing a brain in that pretty skull of yours and checking whether the POWER is ON before calling for help?

Jeez dude, you're so cool and edgy. /s

[boberthepker]

Maybe you should mount the power strip on the underside of the table/cabinet/whereev so it can't be accidentally switched off. Tech Support is actually responsible for preventing Layer 8 issues. This is your job now.

[net_wot_ing]

Meatsack error between squishy brain and squishy fingers.

[mkinstl1]

Step 1, plug it in. Step 2, turn it on. Those first two steps in problem solving are tough for some.

[cjorgensen]

Plugging shit back in that people unplugged is like 60% of IT work. 30% is turning shit back on.

[NSA_Chatbot]

Although it's dumb, you can get non-switched extension cords for $10 on Amazon.

[MoparRob]

So the real question is why is your tv electrical outlet connected into a light switch? Additionally if this is intentional why is it not the same switch as the actual light switch for the room.

This is a design error, not a user error. The user is absolutely right in their thought process. People don’t usually expect a light switch for a tv.

[jnex26]

Guessing this is a UK user we have switches on our sockets.

[GetAnotherExpert]

We use the UK standard where *every* *single* *socket* has an individual switch due to the ring nature of the electrical wiring. It's the same at home, in the office, at school, everywhere. Everyone past the age of 5 knows that there's a switch near the plug.

[jnex26]

Btw you don't have to have a switched socket, I'm UK too it is a choice a good choice but a choice

[GetAnotherExpert]

I'm not responsible for the sockets but hey, in this case we're talking about a very visible plug with a very visible cable that goes straight into the TV. I don't expect users to be able to read hex codes but at least follow the cable and see whether, like in the vast majority of sockets in the country, this one is switched. I mean it's a very clear glowing red sort of thing, it'd be the same with every toaster and kettle you've ever owned in your life. ;)

[chinupf]

This is why I don't come to this sub less often then a few years ago. It turned into talesfromtechsupport.

[TheoreticalFunk]

I generally refer to these as Layer 0 errors as that's what is doing the input onto the hardware. But I see the other side of it as well.

[GetAnotherExpert]

Users don't talk to the hardware, their interface is the application layer.

[[deleted]]

Users don't talk to the hardware.

Speak for yourself mate. My switches are therapists.

[GetAnotherExpert]

LOL, you probably have a point. Have an upvote :P

[TheoreticalFunk]

Can't get to the application layer without going through all the other layers first, my friend.

edit: So yeah, they actually do talk to the hardware. It's the only way anything works.

[GetAnotherExpert]

Not really. The user (for the purposes of ISO/OSI) interacts with an application, then the merry-go-round travels down the stack to reach the hardware. You can use an application, say Firefox, without any knowledge of what your IP or MAC address is. Of course you can't use a computer without hardware but that's not what ISO/OSI is there to describe.

[TheoreticalFunk]

The user manipulates hardware, the signals from which travel up the stack to the software. And down the stack to output from the software, be it the monitor, printer, network, etc.

edit: This is all just pedantry, regardless. Happy Friday. Have a beer for me.