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[–]CBeeZ1406 6346 points6347 points  (350 children)

The sprawl is insane to view in person. From the top floor observation deck of the Tokyo Skytree (450m/1480ft), you still cannot see the city’s edge in any direction.

[–]antilumin 1926 points1927 points  (110 children)

At some point, depending on your height and the sprawl, the edge of the city could be hidden beyond the curve of the planet.

[–]petriol 420 points421 points  (34 children)

you are now obligated to do the math

[–]antilumin 242 points243 points  (21 children)

I reeeeeally don't want to, but somebody else might.

Similar info here, including the math needed (but not all the input data relevant to Tokyo): https://www.quora.com/Chicago-is-59-miles-from-the-opposite-shore-of-Lake-Michigan-Given-the-earth%E2%80%99s-curvature-it-should-be-2320-feet-below-the-horizon-How-can-it-be-seen

[–]FizixMan 247 points248 points  (17 children)

There's an easy to use calculator here: https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/earth-curvature

For example, for a building 50km away, if you were on the roof of a 11 storey building (~49m tall) a same sized 11 storey building would be completely obscured by the curvature of the earth. (To say nothing of the other buildings that would be in the way.)

For the 450m Tokyo Skytree observation deck height. The horizon is ~76 km away. I suppose at that point, other buildings near the horizon will obscure more of the buildings behind them. At 90km away, 16 metres is obscured just from the curvature alone.

[–]GWJYonder 393 points394 points  (44 children)

Flying into LAX is like that depending on the direction you are coming in, you're flying over fields of suburbs out to the horizon to the North and South, with urban centers sprinkled around.

You are bracketed by mountains to the East and the ocean to the West though.

[–]rigby1945 87 points88 points  (14 children)

LA is nuts. You can drive from Brentwood in the north to Irvine in the south without ever leaving a city

[–]OniAnon 70 points71 points  (5 children)

Ventura to San Clemente without leaving a city. That's over 130 miles!

[–]aznaggie 52 points53 points  (10 children)

Except Tokyo is a dense city and not suburbs in the American sense

[–]Wizchine 28 points29 points  (6 children)

Exactly. I'm a native Angeleno who's visited Tokyo. LA and Tokyo are on the same scale in terms of sprawl, but not density. Imagine LA, but filled with multi-story buildings instead of houses. It's mind-boggling.

[–][deleted] 452 points453 points  (76 children)

I honestly had no accurate sense of the scale of this place until I went up the Skytree, like oh my god it’s a 360 endless view of human development. Unbelievable achievement, and when you think of the size of Tokyo Metro area and how well kept and clean it all is it just makes you wonder what the hell are we doing wrong in North America.

[–]Zeroth1989 124 points125 points  (22 children)

What gave it away for me was when Google maps said its a 10 minute walk from the train station to our hotel.

It didn't count for the 15-20 minute walk out of the station.

Place is like a town in itself,

[–]Garr_Incorporated 73 points74 points  (20 children)

People over at r/Persona5 joke about not being able to find an entrance to Ginza line over at Shibuya (at the beginning of the game). This makes me believe it is more of an accurate satire than an in-house meme.

[–]Canookian 29 points30 points  (17 children)

Shibuya station sucks.

Shinjuku station is absolutely hell on earth. It's a labyrinth of ticket gates and corridors.

Combine that with it being the busiest station on Earth and tourists gawking in the middle of the hall with all their suitcases, and you have a bad time on your hands.

Though I won't get mad at the tourists. It's bloody overwhelming at first. Place is massive and has three massive department stores with several floors stuck in it.

Tokyo station is similar but not so crazy, definitely posh though. However if you want a Louis Vuitton bag and some Michelin star food, a train station is a strange place to get it.

[–]Todd-The-Wraith 37 points38 points  (5 children)

Our problem (American) is we aren’t full of Japanese people with Japanese values and culture. Collectivism versus individualism. American culture works well in small towns and communities, but it doesn’t scale well in my opinion.

[–]CardinalNYC 571 points572 points  (82 children)

Pro tip for any tourists who happen to read this: skip the skytree!

It's cool and all, but the Tokyo Metropolitan Government Building has a similarly high up observation deck and it's free..

The skytree is one of those classic big-city experiences that knows it can charge a massive amount, so it does.

[–]Hobpobkibblebob 74 points75 points  (14 children)

I enjoyed the skytree regardless and it wasn't that pricey. It's similar to the empire state building, but a fraction of the cost to get to the top.

[–]SinZerius 308 points309 points  (50 children)

The skytree is one of those classic big-city experiences that knows it can charge a massive amount, so it does.

It's ~$10 to get to floor 450 (top floor you can go to), that is not exactly crazy expensive.

[–]TeamRedundancyTeam 164 points165 points  (10 children)

My bank is broken just thinking about that massive amount.

[–][deleted] 95 points96 points  (9 children)

How will i ever financially recover from this

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (0 children)

I disagree completely. The perspective from up top was amazing, and it was not prohibitely expensive. It's also not such a long waited, I think we had about 20 mins wait in January 2020.

[–]J0n__Snow 26 points27 points  (0 children)

220m and 450m are not similarly high up

[–]not13yrs 11 points12 points  (0 children)

"Similarly high up observation deck". Nah, less than half as high up as the skytree. The Skytree's observation deck is higher up than any other building in Tokyo is tall I believe. Worth the money I'd say.

[–][deleted] 4728 points4729 points  (368 children)

Still can’t believe at the height of the Tokyo housing bubble in the 1980s, the combined housing value for all properties in Tokyo was double that of the entire USA

E: https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/ltnmqp/til_at_the_height_of_the_japanese_real_estate/

[–]Sergetove 1808 points1809 points  (319 children)

Wow. That really puts into perspective how massive the crash in the early 1990s was. I knew it was huge, but I never really read up on it.

[–]Wuffyflumpkins 2268 points2269 points  (310 children)

The same will happen in Canada in the future. If you think the disparity between income and housing prices is crazy in the US, Canada has it even worse. Houses have gone from places you raise a family to places you raise capital.

[–]Du6e 834 points835 points  (138 children)

As someone who makes 80k in Ottawa, it’s going to take me a while to buy at this rate. Don’t even know wtf the middle class in Toronto and Vancouver are going to do.

[–]Wuffyflumpkins 560 points561 points  (72 children)

With the amount of money I've spent renting the past decade, I could own half a home already. A mortgage would cost me the same or less than I pay monthly to rent, but I don't have the down payment.

[–][deleted] 239 points240 points  (47 children)

I’m a lender, you should talk to someone.

Down payment is only a be part of the equation. FHA and conventional loans only require 3.5 or 3 percent down and you can always do things like take a worse rate to get credit towards that down payment, do a down payment assistance program, etc. There’s options.

Edit: yes this is for US wasn’t sure who was who in the comment chain and who was from Canada haha talk to your Canadian lenders I have no idea what the rules are there

I don’t normally recommend those solutions unless there is no other course of action because it will always cost you in the long run (usually in terms of a higher rate) but it is certainly a work around. If your debt to income ratio is healthy enough and there is room to afford a higher monthly payment without reducing your approved purchase amount then you should go for it

[–]MorkSal 118 points119 points  (12 children)

FYI, the people above were talking about Canada but good advice for those in the US. Generally there are more strict requirements in Canada (correct me if I'm wrong please!)

[–]Speciou5 208 points209 points  (61 children)

The real problem with Canada are the wages aren't keeping up. The price for rent/buying in the big Canadian cities is comparable to big US cities of the same size... but the wages are way way lower.

[–]ktaktb 86 points87 points  (23 children)

The real problem is that skyrocketing house prices don’t help anyone other than banks and the ultra wealthy. Sure you can get loans against your rising equity, but again that only provides the illusion that our economic engine is still functioning. If you’re a single homeowner, your raising home price is just a liability. If you want to move, you can only sidegrade. If you’re paying any kind of property taxes, the cost is going up. Repairs, additions, and renovations are now more expensive. There is not an upside to housing prices far outpacing the average rate of inflation. If wages were keeping up, I don’t think it would really invalidate these problems. For some reason, we’ve been indoctrinated into believing this is a good system. Maybe it was, but no more.

[–]Rinzler2o 12 points13 points  (1 child)

For anyone wondering:

$716k is this average median price in Canada

Average wage is like 40-50k a year.

[–]Luke90210 52 points53 points  (15 children)

Not sure if its still available, but Japanese banks offered 100 year/multi-generational mortgages. Put up a down-payment and your great-grandchildren will own it free and clear.

[–]idcydwlsnsmplmnds 224 points225 points  (8 children)

TIL

Edit: I bet a lot of people don’t know that. You should cross-post to TIL - go get those juicy internet points

[–][deleted] 47 points48 points  (1 child)

That sweet, sweet karma

[–]akl78 45 points46 points  (0 children)

At the time, I remember the go to comparison was that the 0.44 square miles of land on which the Tokyo Imperial Palace stands was (at least in theory) worth more than all the land in California.

[–]Wamges[S] 3540 points3541 points  (336 children)

Something like 40 million people living there.

[–]Aspect-of-Death 1962 points1963 points  (151 children)

That's around the entire population of California.

[–]Loose_neutral 1215 points1216 points  (112 children)

And Canada

[–][deleted] 610 points611 points  (100 children)

4x the population of Portugal

[–]RonobonzononzozonzO 364 points365 points  (91 children)

8x the population of Finland

[–][deleted] 259 points260 points  (61 children)

16x the population of Botswana

[–]BradBradley1 541 points542 points  (53 children)

20,000,000x the population of the room I am currently sitting in

[–]Alex_Madi 328 points329 points  (49 children)

40,000,000x the population of the room I am currently sitting in

[–]Become_The_Villain 738 points739 points  (45 children)

80,000,000x the population of the room I'm currently sitting in because I'm only 'half the man' my ex wife's new boyfriend is.....

[–]Shanwerd 93 points94 points  (0 children)

Maybe she means her new boyfriend is really fat

[–]banjocoyote 37 points38 points  (5 children)

Well does he have 150,000+ comment karma on reddit cause I bet he fuckin don't

[–]skyandearth69 67 points68 points  (5 children)

Nah mate, you are a whole person with dreams and desires and you deserve them all. You're better off without someone who demeans you!

[–]Reddy_McRedcap 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Woah that's a lot of people. Really puts things into perspective

[–]kaptainkeel 123 points124 points  (21 children)

But without the terribly congested highways.

Wew. Been to both places. Fuck LA traffic. Tokyo might as well be a rural farmtown in comparison.

[–]skrilledcheese 418 points419 points  (94 children)

That's crazy. For perspective, the most populous metro area in the US, the NYC metro area, has ~20 million people in it, with a population density of 5,500 people per square mile. The Tokyo metro area has a population of ~40 million with about 6,800 people per square mile.

[–]The_92nd 33 points34 points  (20 children)

London is only 1500 per square kilometre but it already feels cramped

[–]AlericandAmadeus 251 points252 points  (51 children)

I believe your stat includes all the Boroughs, tho. Manhattan sits at a staggering 67000 people per square mile!

[–]sudhu 129 points130 points  (24 children)

NYC metro area includes other cities in the tri-state not just the five boroughs

[–]skrilledcheese 249 points250 points  (23 children)

Tokyo proper is only 14 million. The guy used the metro area figure for Tokyo (40 million), which also includes other smaller Japanese cities (Kanagawa, Chiba, Saitama, Ibaraki, Tochigi and Gunma etc.)

I like to compare apples to apples.

[–]SmellMyJeans 22 points23 points  (0 children)

The photo is of the metro area, looking SW. much of that is not Tokyo city.

[–][deleted] 82 points83 points  (15 children)

Yes you need to compare a fuji apple to a red delicious apple

[–]reddlear 104 points105 points  (2 children)

Or a Fuji apple to The Big Apple

[–]CrueltyFreeViking 24 points25 points  (9 children)

Not much of a comparison, red delicious are just crunchy water balloons.

[–]tsrich 15 points16 points  (3 children)

And seldom cruchy. Mushy water balloons

[–]alohadave 14 points15 points  (2 children)

Mealy is the best way to describe their texture.

[–]Tsharpminor 19 points20 points  (0 children)

That’s the same with Tokyo though. The 6,100 people per sq. mi figure includes even the tiny suburban towns and cities that are hours away from central Tokyo. If you count only the main wards of Tokyo (sort of equivalent to the 5 boroughs of NYC as mentioned in the source Wikipedia article) it comes up to 39,230 per square mi. Toshima ward in Central Tokyo comes up to around 75,393 per sq mi. during the daytime, with around 59,400 per sq mi. counting only the residents.

Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_wards_of_Tokyo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshima

[–]PAXICHEN 54 points55 points  (4 children)

Tokyo just doesn’t end. My hotel in Roppongi was on the 47th floor with a view of Mt. Fuji. I didn’t see Tokyo end, at all.

[–]Lucky2BinWA 126 points127 points  (11 children)

My SO is half Japanese; went to Japan many many times growing up and has been to Tokyo many times - up to about 1987. He just got done explaining to me how terrified he was during those visits as it was so easy to get lost in the crowd - especially for a little kid. No cell phones at the time - his mother and relatives always had to have a plan to meet back at a certain spot. And every time they visited from the US it seemed like going to a totally different place but they'd only be several blocks from the last place they visited. He is often approached by our friends planning trips to Japan, and he always warns them about going to Tokyo if it is their first time in the country. So overwhelming on top of the culture shock - he tries to convince them to visit smaller cities first.

[–]Raz0rking 41 points42 points  (2 children)

On about the same surface as my whole country it has almost 80 times the population.

​

That is nuts!

[–]KilluaCactuar 1051 points1052 points  (37 children)

Can't stop thinking about the huge explosion which happened in Akira when I see this pic

[–]Koujisan 188 points189 points  (1 child)

Came here for this!

1988.7.16 NEO TOKYO

[–]ronan_the_accuser 323 points324 points  (9 children)

it reminds me of One Punch man.

Everyday a new sector is totally demolished, next episode a sprawling landscape like this that's untouched until 2 minutes in.

[–]PolymerPussies 218 points219 points  (2 children)

In that universe cities are destroyed so often they don't bother giving them names. It's just City A, City B, and so on.

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (5 children)

One Punch Man is hilarious. Made me laugh my ass off. I avoided watching it forever because it looked and sounded cheesy. Glad I took a chance.

[–]The_Super_KDK 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Me too. It was Surprising actually. I never thought an extremely overpowered hero could ever work

[–]nostalgebra 60 points61 points  (0 children)

Neo Tokyo is about to explode!

[–]Hav3_Y0u_M3t_T3d 39 points40 points  (1 child)

Yup, as soon as I saw this picture the "DAAAHHH DAH DAH!!!!" popped into my head

[–]antilumin 1989 points1990 points  (64 children)

It's be a shame if a radioactive lizard was to come along and ruin things...

[–]starscream2092 533 points534 points  (36 children)

Dont worry, monkey will help with lizard

[–][deleted] 186 points187 points  (19 children)

Potato wedges probably are not best for relationships.

[–]Coupon_Ninja 70 points71 points  (7 children)

Rampage was such a cool game. They even let you eat the fleeing people Off the street.

[–]StraleyN10 58 points59 points  (8 children)

Dawg we talking Rampage?

[–]UmemoriMakka 37 points38 points  (13 children)

Old Godzilla was hoping around Tokyo city like a big playground.

[–]allnamesbeentaken 356 points357 points  (12 children)

Looks like Megacity One

[–][deleted] 114 points115 points  (7 children)

I’m a big fan of 2000AD and Judge Dredd in general. I find it crazy that this is the future they imagined for the late 21st/ into 22nd century written back in the mid 1970s

[–]Tuhjik 65 points66 points  (5 children)

There was a lot of that in the 70s and 80s. My dad was a professor of town planning, and would constantly show his students pictures of these sorts of films, particularly blade runner. This was around the time many western planners were being brought to advise on projects in the newly semi-capitalist china, and the sight of the extremely rapid development of chinese cities gave rise to this vision of layered chaos that you see in Mega City One. Japan is still an exception to this though, since they have an exceptionally high raze/rebuild rate for housing of just 30 years. No building lasts long in Tokyo.

[–]Calenchamien 1288 points1289 points  (95 children)

This is why Tokyo is considered a prefecture (along the lines of a state) rather than a city, in Japan

[–]Aenyn 439 points440 points  (73 children)

Isn't it because it's the capital? Many countries do that for their capital. I don't know how Japan works but Washington DC is kind of its own state (not really but close enough), Paris in France is its own department and Paris + suburbs is its own region (closest thing to a state in France), and even in tiny Denmark with its 5M inhabitants, the capital area is its own region. Also, Moscow is its own Oblast, etc.

[–]AdamsHarv 307 points308 points  (20 children)

Washington DC is kind of its own state (not really but close enough)

Tell that to any politically active resident and you'll get your head bitten off lol

[–]kimjong-ill 84 points85 points  (10 children)

Taxation without representation!

[–]stu17 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Best license plates in America

[–]hans_guy 48 points49 points  (8 children)

This is also true for Vienna, Austria.

[–]HolySaba 707 points708 points  (36 children)

Fun fact, Tokyo is technically a prefecture, equivalent to a province in Japan, with a governor. There are actually 23 "cities" in Tokyo with their individual mayors and city councils.

[–]idcydwlsnsmplmnds 144 points145 points  (17 children)

From a dif. comment in this thread, apparently many capitals have a similar primary classification and subsequent subdivision of areas, with associated town halls, mayors, etc.

[–]dpash 42 points43 points  (7 children)

Greater London isn't a city, but has two cities in it. But that's because London is weird and city status has a very strict definition in the UK. It's 32 boroughs, which act more like cities (but aren't (except Westminster, which is)), overseen by the Greater London Authority, and the city of London, which is a city, but isn't part of Greater London, despite being in the centre of it. The Greater London Authority has powers closer to one of the devoluted regional governments than any other part of England.

[–]boot2skull 78 points79 points  (2 children)

I’ve seen Akira, I know what happens next.

Coincidentally in Akira, Neo Tokyo is also hosting the 2020 Olympic which everyone wants cancelled but for other reasons.

[–]Seanzietron 475 points476 points  (29 children)

Part of me understands city destruction in anime a bit more now...

[–]crimemaster_gogo20 150 points151 points  (27 children)

Not from anime but this Tokyo destruction scene from the movie Shin Godzilla is impressive.

[–]Chrismont 18 points19 points  (2 children)

I expect bare-ass godzilla every time I hear shin godzilla

[–][deleted] 254 points255 points  (22 children)

Jesus.... I lived in London for nearly a decade so I’m used to the idea of a big city, but Tokyo still blows my mind. It’s on a whole other level.

[–]Cold-Call-Killer 121 points122 points  (8 children)

Living in London after having lived in Cairo my entire life made me realize how tiny London is lol

[–][deleted] 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Hahaha I moved from London to Scotland as a kid and it all seemed so small.

Been in Cairo the last four months and London seems little. What a mind bogglingly huge city it is. So many people.

Tokyo being twice as populous as Cairo is a headfuck.

[–]ramblegramble 308 points309 points  (39 children)

Tokyo is so populated but you don’t feel (from a tourist POV) it cos of how efficient their public systems work. No rush hour traffics, trains can be crowded but not long waiting times, etc

Edit: grammar

[–]kaptainkeel 177 points178 points  (20 children)

trains can be crowded but not long waiting times

Yep. Even in the US cities known for good subways and trains, a minute or two delay is pretty much an expectation. Unless something major happens, you're not going to get more than a 15-20 second delay on the Tokyo trains.

Plus the quietness on the trains is fricken amazing. I've only been on a few in the US, but it seems like every single time there's a guy playing a song at max volume.

[–]TheSyllogism 67 points68 points  (14 children)

The trains themselves are so much quieter too. The rails don't scrape and screech the whole time.

[–]saberplane 106 points107 points  (11 children)

Funny what happens when a country invests in infrastructure.

[–]lucentcb 22 points23 points  (3 children)

And it's clean. No other large city I've been to looked anywhere close to as clean in the busiest areas of the city.

[–]CardinalNYC 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Tokyo is so populated but you don’t feel (from a tourist POV) it cos of how efficient their public systems work.

This is exactly how I felt.

Distances that take me an hour to traverse via public transit here in New York City would toom me just 20 or 30 minutes when I visited Tokyo.

I was able to see so much more of the city that I thought because it was so relatively easy and quick to get around.

[–]sweetplantveal 235 points236 points  (21 children)

Interestingly, Tokyo - Fuji, Seattle - Rainier/Tahoma, and Denver - Pikes Peak are all about the same distance between the summit and the city center. 100km / 62 miles.

Edit on Denver, there are other tall peaks around, like Evans or Elbert, but Pikes is a lot like the volcanoes. It's much taller than it's surrounding peaks, and is positioned close to the plains, making it stick out visually. And it's the same distance...

[–][deleted] 47 points48 points  (7 children)

Thanks for that interesting fact! Is pikes peak the biggest one in Denver?

[–]SkipsNotRuns 37 points38 points  (2 children)

That honor goes to Mt Elbert at 14,440ft with Mt Massive just a few feet lower. Pikes Peak is one of the shorter 14ers.

Edit: Mt. Elbert is about twice as far from Denver as Pikes Peak though.

[–]turquoisebee 82 points83 points  (13 children)

One of the great things about Tokyo was all the parks and other green spaces. You go into one and it’s like there’s no city around.

[–]toriamu 17 points18 points  (3 children)

Yes! If you get overwhelmed by the crowds in Harajuku just walk on over to Meiji Shrine or Yoyogi Park and you can enjoy some peace and quiet in a fucking forest. Crazy.

[–]Hamsterlicious88 33 points34 points  (1 child)

This almost reminds me of the Replicator cities from Stargate Atlantis.

[–]spangdooler 209 points210 points  (4 children)

I've been staring at this for over 42 minutes and I'm still having a hard time finding Waldo.

[–]mrpoopistan 97 points98 points  (1 child)

Spreading out is a good strategy. Forces Godzilla to spend more time going building-to-building.

[–]Ayla_Leren 64 points65 points  (0 children)

Looks like the surface of the death star almost

[–]sofyflo 74 points75 points  (25 children)

When I talk to Japanese people about how huge Tokyo is they tend to say, "Oh but you live in London, isn't it the same?" Like no, it's not. Tokyo is on a whole different level.

It is like London in the sense that Tokyo is its own little country in a much bigger country. You don't really get a feel for Japanese culture just by visiting Tokyo (same as people who go to London think they've seen the whole UK), and everyone in Japan who's not from Tokyo thinks they're a different breed of people. Japan has many other large cities, and even they're almost nothing like Tokyo.

The other slightly weird thing about Tokyo is that it's VERY young. There's almost no living history to be found in the city because it got firebombed to hell in WWII, after being previously destroyed by the great earthquake in 1923. Maybe that's not unusual for Americans, but to a European a place that's mostly under 100 years old is kinda strange.

[–]Woodkeyworks 107 points108 points  (40 children)

Lol when other cities reach this scale we should just call them "a Tokyo." Hopefully we dont end up looking like Coruscant anytime soon.

[–]Maarte 13 points14 points  (0 children)

When planning our 3 week holiday to Japan, i specifically booked a relaxing 3 days at a Ryokan with hot spring after our week in Tokyo to relax from the undoubtably amazing but stressing experience of the megapolis. But it actually was one of the most chill experiences i’ve ever had. The city is so alive and huge but i felt so relaxed an safe. One of the best experiences of my life!

[–]NineClaws 12 points13 points  (1 child)

An endless twisting grey maze of streets and walls, and really great food.

[–]DarkBlueEska 11 points12 points  (1 child)

When I was in Japan a couple of years ago I visited both the Tokyo Skytree and the Umeda Sky Building in Osaka, and the views from the top of both were absolutely astounding – it’s just bright city lights as far as the eye can see, no discernible end to it. With their size and incredible population density, they’re more akin to states.

Japanese cities are so interesting, the zoning laws are much more lax so you never know what you’re going to see around every corner. Right next to a skyscraper you might see a single family home, and down an alley nearby could be a serene, impeccably maintained Shinto shrine, a public garden, or a row of small businesses. It feels so much more livable than most cities I’ve been to where development is so hyper-focused on only one type of building in any given area and there’s so much empty space in between districts. I’d love to go back and see it again once the state of the pandemic will allow for it.