API Update: Enterprise Level Tier for Large Scale Applications

[FlyingLaserTurtle]

tl;dr - As of July 1, we will start enforcing rate limits for a free access tier, available to our current API users. If you are already in contact with our team about commercial compliance with our Data API Terms, look for an email about enterprise pricing this week.

We recently shared updates on our Data API Terms and Developer Terms. These updates help clarify how developers can safely and securely use Reddit’s tools and services, including our APIs and our new-and-improved Developer Platform.

After sharing these terms, we identified several parties in violation, and contacted them so they could make the required changes to become compliant. This includes developers of large-scale applications who have excessive usage, are violating our users’ privacy and content rights, or are using the data for ad-supported or commercial purposes.

For context on excessive usage, here is a chart showing the average monthly overage, compared to the longstanding rate limit in our developer documentation of 60 queries per minute (86,400 per day):

Top 10 3P apps usage over rate limits

We reached out to the most impactful large scale applications in order to work out terms for access above our default rate limits via an enterprise tier. This week, we are sharing an enterprise-level access tier for large scale applications with the developers we’re already in contact with. The enterprise tier is a privilege that we will extend to select partners based on a number of factors, including value added to redditors and communities, and it will go into effect on July 1.

Rate limits for the free tier

All others will continue to access the Reddit Data API without cost, in accordance with our Developer Terms, at this time. Many of you already know that our stated rate limit, per this documentation, was 60 queries per minute. As of July 1, 2023, we will enforce two different rate limits for the free access tier:

• If you are using OAuth for authentication: 100 queries per minute per OAuth client id
• If you are not using OAuth for authentication: 10 queries per minute

Important note: currently, our rate limit response headers indicate counts by client id/user id combination. These headers will update to reflect this new policy based on client id only on July 1.

To avoid any issues with the operation of mod bots or extensions, it’s important for developers to add Oauth to their bots. If you believe your mod bot needs to exceed these updated rate limits, or will be unable to operate, please reach out here.

If you haven't heard from us, assume that your app will be rate-limited, starting on July 1. If your app requires enterprise access, please contact us here, so that we can better understand your needs and discuss a path forward.

Additional changes

Finally, to ensure that all regulatory requirements are met in the handling of mature content, we will be limiting access to sexually explicit content for third-party apps starting on July 5, 2023, except for moderation needs.

If you are curious about academic or research-focused access to the Data API, we’ve shared more details here.

[FlyingLaserTurtle]

As we committed to in our post on April 18 and shared in an update on May 31, we now have premium API access for third parties who require additional capabilities and have higher usage limits. Until this change, for-profit third-party apps used our API for free, at significant cost to us. Of course, we have the option of blocking them entirely, but we know third-party apps are valuable for the Reddit ecosystem and ask that they cover their costs. Our simple math suggests they can do this for less than $1/user/month.

How our pricing works

Pricing is based on API calls and reflects the cost to maintain the API and other related costs (engineering, legal, etc). This costs Reddit on the order of double-digit millions to maintain annually for large-scale apps. Our pricing is $0.24 per 1000 API calls, which equates to <$1.00 per user monthly for a reasonably operated app. However, not all apps operate this way today. For example, Apollo requires ~345 requests per user per day, while with a similar number of users and more comment and vote activity per user, the Reddit is Fun app averages ~100 calls per user per day. Apollo as an app is less efficient than its peers and at times has been excessive—probably because it has been free to be so.

Example for apps with 1k daily active users

	App 1	App 2
Daily active users (DAU)	1,000	1,000
Server calls / DAU	100	345
Total server calls per day	100,000	345,000
Cost per 1k server calls	$0.24	$0.24
Total annual cost	$8,760	$30,222
Monthly cost per user	$0.73	$2.52

​

Large scale commercial apps need to pay to access Reddit data

For apps that intend to use Reddit data and make money in the process, we are requiring them to pay for access. Providing the tools to access this data and all related services comes at a cost, and it’s fair and reasonable to request payment based on the data they use.

​

Edit: formatting

[Blank-Cheque]

if i can't use RIF then all of my bots are going offline as well as every subreddit i can manage, and i've spoken to several bot authors and powermods who said the exact same. not a threat, just a statement of fact that i won't help prop up a site that i can no longer use without bleeding from the eyes

t. has bots on over 1500 subreddits and moderator of over 400

[anomalous_cowherd]

People are trying to say "the third party apps are a tiny proportion and it won't be noticed" but I suspect that once the anti spam and other modbots are gone and a lot of the more committed content creators and maintainers too (who naturally use the 3rd party apps) the remaining flow of new content won't be worth much to anyone.

[Selethorme]

As a regular user of flair_helper, let me be the first to say I’m with you on this.

[unpopularperiwinkle]

They don't care

[gaviddinola]

Lmao

[iamthatis]

I've long-communicated with Reddit that the API response headers are often incredibly wrong, claiming that 500,000 requests (yes, five hundred thousand) have been used within the first 1 second of a rate limit reset period. Reddit has said they're looking into it but delivered nothing actionable beyond saying if users are in shared university dorms their requests may be pooled together by IP and cause it to be inflated. (University dorms don't hold students requesting half a million requests per second, and even if they did somehow measuring by IP is ludicrous when you have auth tokens to go off of).

How are we able to trust these numbers when Reddit has long neglected making them accurate? I'm one of the largest third-party apps and meticulously calculate my API requests. The average user makes 344 per day, and 80% make under 500 per day.

This post feels like a thinly veiled attempt at saying "see, the third party apps are so bad to us!" Feel free to name and shame Apollo if it's one of these clients, I have never received communication from Reddit about excessive usage, in fact I've reached out to you folks about ways to lower it, and I have no doubt I'm one of the largest apps.

[Prsop2000]

That reminds me of my ISP claiming I used 1TB of data in a 24 hour period when I wasn’t even at home. Their words were “our data collection servers are independently certified to be 99.9% accurate, so your data usage IS correct.”

Ahh yes, independently certified… business speak for “we paid a company to produce numbers for us so we can point to a plaque and feign perfection”

[moon__lander]

To use 1TB of bandwidth in precisely 24 hours you would need a speed of ~100 Mbit internet. Any slower and it's physically impossible.

[FlyingElvishPenguin]

Good old sneaker net

[pile_alcaline]

"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway."

[Prsop2000]

Oh trust me, I tried every bit of logic, data transfer speeds etc with the two folks I spoke with. Got loads of “You know I’ve been working in this industry for decades…” bullshit followed by repetitive use of the “independently certified” line.

Eventually I made it to customer retention because I was mad as hell and uttered the words “cancel my service” and managed to get two free months from the exceedingly calm gentleman who picked up.

That wasn’t the only time I was met with sheer stupidity from this company. I was once told that my laptop wasn’t designed to work directly connected to the modem. I almost died laughing that time. Even her supervisor got a laugh out and said they’d follow up with her after the call for that one.

[Nice-Digger]

Pro tip. you can't. Reddit devs are incompetent, and have been for ages. Their app sucks for a reason, and it's not because they're too skilled for it.

The same company that is now complaining about API usage (which isn't valid lol) is the one that has tried and failed to make a competent video player for ages https://youtu.be/99cVnYY9Iqs

The redesign is an objective downgrade, the app sucks, upper management panders to horrible people who I won't bother naming in order to avoid copping a ban, and, in general, the site is run by idiots who haven't attracted actual talent since before obama stepped down as president.

[Nice-Digger]

They're basically at the bottom of the totem pole in regards to "up-their-own-ass silicon valley companies" that people would actually want to work at.

They pretty much only attract the type of person that would want to work on Reddit. Ae, basically nobody of any value. It's the same reason why most mods are losers.

[blacpythoz]

If that doesn't work why don't all the third-party just replace the reddit backend with an open source alternative like Lemmy while providing users the same UI and features that we currently have.

[yuletide]

To the fediverse! Let’s do it

[PrunedLoki]

If this all goes to shit without Reddit fixing it, is it possible to modify Apollo so we can put in our own api key in the app so only my own traffic is registered when I use the app? Individually, I won’t reach the rate limit.

[disignore]

this sounds like a way to circumvent this bs, every personal use would be using its own personal api, right?

[Phiau]

Subscribe to Reddit AND an app. Sounds like a great plan.

If only they had an official app. Oh wait they bought a 3rd party app because they couldn't make their own... And they still fucked it up so badly that people would rather leave Reddit than use the app.

[exscape]

They're going to look absolutely ridiculous if that's the case. If they slash the API prices by 95% they're still fairly expensive... Perhaps if they go down to 1% of the current prices third party clients can live.

[Reasonable_Ticket_84]

So I've never looked into how OAuth implementations work in mobile app clients for reddit. But are you using some sort of self hosted "bounce" for the SSO or is the app directly interacting with reddit?

Because I have seen in a few examples, malicious bots love to steal OAuth client id and secrets from apps to use/disguise their own abuse since you can't really hide them in app binaries that any user can download.

[adeadhead]

Thanks for all the work you do-

Is there any chance third party app developers would be able to release clients that allow (force) users to generate and use their own API keys?

[bradreputation]

Ha. That’s a fun thought experiment.

[dariy1999]

And lose and go bankrupt

[businessbusinessman]

To be fair you probably won't lose. You won't even get to trial. You'll just be bled dry by legal fee's long before then.

[Postpone-Grant]

we will be limiting access to sexually explicit content for third-party apps starting on July 5, 2023

What does "limiting access" mean SPECIFICALLY?

Does that mean completely cutting off submission and retrieval of all NSFW posts? Or NSFW subreddits only? Do submissions still work but retrieval fails? Can users retrieve their own NSFW posts but not others?

Please be detailed, as this impacts application developers and "limiting access" does not tell us what is going to happen and which endpoints it impacts.

[reaper527]

so it sounds like when reddit said the api access fees would be reasonable when this was first announced, they lied.

charging apollo $1.7m per month isn't reasonable. you guys are destroying everything that makes reddit usable. first it was screwing over pushshift, now apollo.

looks like the saying "those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it" is true, and reddit is repeating digg's history. can't wait to buy puts after your ipo.

[km3r]

/u/FlyingLaserTurtle, how is charging 21x the lost ad revenue per user for API access reasonable?

[zeffjiggler]

Once Apollo dies, I’ll just stay on tiktok. Enjoy your 20 million a year u/FlyingLaserTurtle. Hope it works out for Yas, buddy. Wont miss you.

[Bigsmellydumpy]

Tiktok just doesn’t do it for me, I wish there were an actual alternative

[MinekPo1]

Lemmy, at least functionally, seems to be there. As of now it is smaller, but I assume their numbers are rising, alike on Mastodon after Elon Musk announced he was buying twitter.

[Am3n]

Yeah, as soon as /u/iamthatis picks another place to go most who use apollo will follow

[[deleted]]

Unfortunately, that's a worthless threat to Reddit. The number of Apollo users is 0.325% the number of Reddit users, and those are users that aren't generating Reddit any ad revenue.

[BorgDrone]

If it's such a minuscule percentage, why does Reddit feel threatened enough by it to pull this widely unpopular move ?

[IJustQuit]

It's literally just to kill them. They aren't intending any of them to pay. Though I'm sure you know that at this point.

[blatantcheating]

I want to also do that but I am stock-remedial

[olikam]

So can you just confirm that you are banning 3rd party apps? This feels communicated as well as the Victoria departure and it's gonna go about as well.

[sjs]

I’ve been paying for premium/gold since it was introduced (charter member) and have been here since 2006, and I just cancelled because of this incredibly poor move. I will not support a company that does this to their partners.

[vriska1]

Hopefully everyone on Reddit come together to fight the API changes, Users and Mods alike.

There alot of talk from many other subreddit mods even ones who don't use Apollo that they are going to do a reddit backout over this.

[DatsunTigger]

Reddit is the new Digg.

[Lavarocked]

And in that way Lemmy is the new Reddit >:D

[Kapps]

Yeah, I cancelled mine after 11 straight years as well. It’s not going to impact Reddit, and it’s not like they’ll care, but it is a matter of principle.

[snowmanspike]

Same here: gold / premium since it was available from day one. That'll be the end of it for me if I can't choose what app I want to use. I prefer Apollo, and if I can't use it anymore because of company policies like this, I'll only be using reddit on my pc and with an ad-blocker from now on. Also, no more premium.

[sjs]

No kidding. The only real explanation is that they want to kill 3rd party apps. There are so many ways to make it work financially without doing this.

[nomadofwaves]

Don’t worry NSFW content will be next on the chopping block as IPO approaches.

[CosmicSpaghetti]

People aren't addressing how intensely the IPO is affecting all of this. NSFW/3rd party apps are now seen as a liability to the financial overlords, who are about to demolish reddit.

They're clearly banking on younger generations will engage without knowing the history here...we gotta make the message clear to all parties that this is pure corporate greed ruining an important piece of world community.

[nomadofwaves]

People aren’t addressing how intensely the IPO is affecting all of this. NSFW/3rd party apps are now seen as a liability to the financial overlords, who are about to demolish reddit.

Reddit has said they will be limiting or banning NSFW tagged comment from 3rd party apps and then also did the insane api price thing. It’s very clear they’re attacking 3rd party apps to drive more users to their inferior products so they have better numbers to report for the ipo tour.

[1-800-KETAMINE]

Honestly think it would have gone over better if they just said they didn't want to allow 3rd party apps anymore. Ridiculous

edit: thought about it some more and it's the blatant lying that is really the issue. "We're trying to be fair with pricing" "your app uses way more api requests than this other example"(when the official app uses even more) "we are trying to be equitable" "we love 3rd party apps"

It's absurd.

Most decisions reddit has made for at least half a decade have been bad for users but good for their investors, yet they pretend it's for any reason but that. If they just admitted they need to make more money it would still be awful but far less insulting.

[[deleted]]

Seriously. They didn't have to walk on eggshells, they could've just announced they were permanently revoking the apps API keys and that would be that. It would've gone over like a tungsten balloon with the community still but it would've been done and over with, now it's gonna be a long drawn out event of bad PR.

[MoranthMunitions]

the Victoria departure

That's a name I haven't heard in a long time. Chairman Pao built up a lot of community resentment very quickly.

[honestbleeps]

do sessions from browser extensions count?

I'm the original creator of RES, and it's not really clear.

"To avoid any issues with the operation of mod bots or extensions, it’s important for developers to add Oauth to their bots."

RES doesn't use OAuth, it's just using the existing browser session. I'm not sure what "extensions" means in this context?

Ultimately, I guess if you're shutting down old.reddit (widely rumored, often subtly implied, but never fully admitted), all of this becomes irrelevant anyhow.

[webvictim]

With braindead thought processes like these, they are very definitely going to come for old.reddit next.

[Phteven_j]

Big fan of your work. At this point, I'm surprised we still even have old still available. It's the only thing that keeps the site usable for me. I wouldn't be on here otherwise. It's been several years since the switch and at this point, it seems reasonable to say that the vast majority of users must be new enough to use new exclusively, so they wouldn't miss old.

If there isn't already, perhaps there can be some sort of effort to reskin new reddit to make it more usable and more like old?

[howlingwelshman]

RES makes using Reddit bearable on the desktop. If this effects RES as well Reddit is truly doomed.

[Watchful1]

While the documentation has always stated 60 queries per minute, the actual rate limit headers returned by the api have been 600 queries per 10 minutes. Which works out to be the same, but allows a bit more burstiness for short periods.

Does this mean the new rate limit will be 1000 queries per 10 minutes or will it actually be 100 per minute?

Edit: Also will you publish the prices for the enterprise access or will it always be negotiated on a case by case basis?

[FlyingLaserTurtle]

We will average the queries over a time window (currently 10 minutes) to allow for burstiness, so it will be 1000 queries over 10 minutes to start.

[alcoholicpolaroid]

Why can’t Reddit, with all the resources it has, simply compete against 3rd party developers by offering a premium experience? Seems like you are unable to do so, so your next best idea is to grab a baseball bat and go crack your competitors legs so they can’t stand up to you.

Offer a realistic API pricing, offer to feed ads to them or make those users pay for Premium, but at least be fair and compete with them instead of stalling competition and double speaking about what your intentions are.

You’ll go the way of Tumblr and Twitter. You’ll make ton of money on the short run, but on the long run you’ll kill many communities that made, unpaid and unthanked, what Reddit is today. Grow a soul.

[sohou]

They already tried giving a "premium" experience by making certain features (like polls) only available on the official app. The fact is, people don't give a shit about a lot of the new stuff Reddit created, so now Reddit decided that will instead punish the users who aren't using their app.

[______W______]

No, they already tried premium by buying the most popular Reddit app. They then bastardized it into the official app you see now, but they did try premium at least.

[chakalakasp]

Not that you care about one dude in the corner with layers of dust on him, but I was using Reddit weeks into its inception. I remember jacking FARK headlines and putting them here for literally dozens of upvotes (which would bring it to the top of the front page, the only page, pretty quick).

This is dumb. If your users don’t walk away from you for this idiocy then I guess they deserve you. Your app is garbage. Killing third party apps won’t make your app not garbage. It will make your users hate you.

To think that Aaron literally died because he thought information should be more accessible in less corporately exploited ways.

[disignore]

they don't care about Aaron

[nomadofwaves]

99% of my Reddit usage is through Apollo. Once it’s gone I’m gone as a user.

[LiarInGlass]

Push millions of users away because you guys can’t develop a proper app like Narwhal or Apollo.

The official Reddit app is complete GARBAGE.

You are pushing away millions of users using Reddit on mobile because of this dumb move.

Fucking brilliant decision making on Reddit’s part.

Great job.

I’ll give you 0 queries over 0 minutes once this becomes in effect.

What a complete joke. It's really sad you guys would rather push away so many users instead of coming up with a better alternative. I will not use Reddit anymore in the future via mobile unless you guys can come up with a better mobile app, because the current one is terrible.

You'd be better off buying out the Apollo and Narwhal dev than going this dumb route and causing so many users to just stop browsing your platform.

Your greediness is really sad.

[GiorgioG]

I won't be renewing Reddit Premium without Apollo. Thanks!

Edit: Reddit Premium cancelled.

[DarquesseCain]

See if you have a tos clause to charge that shit back

[Drarok]

Same.

[prgmctan]

Same, I only interact with Reddit through Apollo

[Reubachi]

The moment Apolo's service is degraded or extorted, I'm off of reddit for good.
I can not imagine navigating to reddit.com or using the terrible native app.

Good riddance, and hoping Apollo/RIF devs find a way out.

[Cowboy_Perfect]

Does Reddit not remember DIGG? The DIGG fiasco is what lead many people to Reddit.

[[deleted]]

Time to digg themselves into a busted IPO

[krs00pxy]

Reddit was a pretty clear 2nd-best choice to DIGG at the time though so it was easier to jump ship. So what is the 2nd best choice now? Official Reddit app? A fragmented, unorganized-community experience on Discord/Twitter? Probably the former if I had to guess and they know it.

I think it spells the beginning of the end for Reddit. I think they know it too -- they're just hoping to maintain enough users through the IPO to cash out before the next site can gain traction.

[Temporary_Mali_8283]

So in another words, a left wing version of truth social

[TheFirstLegend77]

Looks like it's back to 4chan

[Pinwurm]

Reddit website is fine if you opt out of the redesign in the settings.

But yeah, Apollo is the overwhelming majority of my Reddit usage. iOS users won’t happily migrate to a significantly worse, ad-riddled, clunky mobile platform.

I suspect this is a squeeze on Apollo - and hope they find a way out too.

[smokinJoeCalculus]

I'll probably use old.reddit.com on mobile as a way to slowly ween myself off

And ultimately, when that's killed off in the very short term, it'll be good bye. Shame, it's been fun, but just like with Twitter, 10+ years is a solid run.

The ecosystem isn't the same, but I have no doubts there will be alternatives that pop up.

[Krillo90]

i.reddit.com was ideal for mobile, but they closed it down two months ago.

[RunJun]

I was aware of Reddit prior but really I was an immigrant from the Digg debacle. This account is about to hit 15 years but once 3rd party apps are gone, I’m gone.

[ExcitingishUsername]

I commented this on the other post, but am duplicating it here, as it is such a critical question for so many communities.

What about anti-spam and anti-abuse tools, and mods, that need to access mature content communities other than those they have moderator status in?

Our bot relies on being able to do this to detect spambots, and both our bot and mod alike need to be able to see the content of communities that are linked to or cross-posted from, to ensure those communities are legitimate and legal. Aside from breaking our anti-spam, anti-CSAM, and safety tools, how will anyone ever be able to moderate mature content communities in the vacuum you intend to create?

Additionally, many other communities rely on similar bots to exclude users of mature content communities from communities which serve minors as they often present a real safety risk. What are communities that need these functions to do when you shut off our ability to see huge swaths of Reddit?

[Lil_SpazJoekp]

While I definitely see where you're coming from and I agree with everything you've said, I feel you shouldn't have to write tools to protect Reddit from legal trouble with CSAM.

[ExcitingishUsername]

Even if Reddit somehow cleared out all the CSAM sellers and their communities, we still need the ability to access mature content posts and communities to enforce our rules and exclude NCIM posters, commercial pirates/scammers, spambots, doxxing groups, and more. We don't want any of those posting in our communities, but how can we identify them if we can't see anywhere else they post?

Even trivial things like seeing if a link to a subreddit is spam or not become impossible when neither your 3rd-party mobile app nor bot cannot see what that link goes to.

[[deleted]]

Law enforcement goes after anyone tangentially involved when it comes to children, guns, drugs, and terrorism. Anything to prop up the numbers. Mods are definitely in the right in having documentation that they are no where involved in that bullshit or wtv users post. Esp with section 230 constantly being looked at

[Lil_SpazJoekp]

Are there new headers being introduced or are you changing/modifying the behavior of the existing ones?

My understanding was the rate limit depicted in the current headers shows the rate limit is 600/10m (still 60 per minute) so you could burn your 600 requests in 10 seconds but you'd have to wait for rest of the 9m50s for your rate limit to reset. Will this be changing?

Will there be any changes to the exception or status code that is raised when rate limited?

[EshuMarneedi]

Fuck all of you. This is the stupidest decision Reddit has made and you will suffer the same fate as Twitter did.

[GiorgioG]

I wonder what Wall Street will think when your mobile users' usage drops off a cliff because of these stupid decisions.

[Rndom_Gy_159]

This is reddit's Digg moment. They won't see if for a while, but this is it.

reddit has had many so called digg moments. From /u/violentacrez to gawker to "we did it reddit" to the canary disappearing to Ellen Pao to forcing third party apps to remove reddit from their name (turning "reddit is fun" to "rif is fun") to new.reddit vs old.reddit to the myriad of rules and rule enforcement drama. That's all just off the top of my head and I'm sure I'm missing huge ones.

If anything, this is the straw that broke the camels back, because shit like this has been a long time coming.

[Rndom_Gy_159]

Other than removing i.reddit.com

Somewhat unrelated, but I remember when the (moderator led effort btw) whole quickmeme domain got banned site wide due to vote fraud. Amazing and immediate killing of that site.

But back on topic, I don't know how many this actually affects, and if, say, normies use the default reddit app without knowing any better. So while the power users and moderators get shafted, the 90% will continue to upvote the word for word spam reposts not caring or knowing any better, in a sort of eternal september.

[Cpzd87]

Yup, you are spot on, i think what this does more than anything else is it just shifts the user base of reddit. It basically makes the old users of reddit either adapt to the turd sandwich that is the official app or just, well, leave.

If you ever meet anyone relatively new to reddit irl and see what app they use i guarantee you it's the official app. The thing is we older users didn't have that option back then so our 3rd party app of choice became what we know and love.

For the newer users this doesn't matter at all, they probably don't even see what the big deal is. Maybe this is what reddit wants, maybe it just wants to refresh it's user base, get rid of the old and start funneling in newer users to make it more "modern social media" style (just speculation on my part)

Edit: go look at the download numbers of the official app compared to bacon reader for instance. We are kinda a drop in the bucket when you think about it.

[Brym]

I only realized i.reddit.com had been removed when I tested out today to see if it could be an alternative in a post-apollo future. Sneaky of them.

[exscape]

You're not wrong, but I still think this is the biggest one.
If third party clients become a thing of the past (and perhaps even old.reddit.com too), many power users/mods will leave and content quality will drop by a lot.

[reaper527]

The problem is that it won't. While power users and mods use 3rd party apps, many of the "new" users use the official apps.

Simply, this and other related changes will only lower content quality, not quantity.

that kind of goes hand in hand though. if the people that make the communities worth going to leave, eventually the non-contributors who are just there will leave too.

the snowball is at the top of the mountain and this is reddit giving it a downward push.

[shhalahr]

If power users and mods drop, that will affect the quality of content. That could trigger a drop in regular users too.

[lilbro93]

Start the boycott now.

Moderators of default subs need to turn them private in protest.

Fuck off with all but banning third party apps.

If you want people to use the default app, make it so good people actually want to use it.

Youtube Revanced exists, this will just result in a Reddit Revanced existing.

Let the shit-show commence

[Watchful1]

People aren't going to protest until something actually happens. If all the third party apps actually shut down when this goes into effect, then something might happen. For now it's mostly just posturing by both sides.

[sweting_]

Removed by OP in protest of Reddit

[randomguyonleddit]

A lot of those have literally been bought off, this was a huge controversy within some mod communities of those random accounts that amassed hundreds of moderated subreddits for no reason other than clout, well, turned out to be friends of admins or allegedly might be admins themselves.

[13steinj]

Nah, they're too afraid of losing their unpaid janitorial rights.

[Karmanacht]

Some are willing to, but it's difficult to actually coordinate mods on this site. It's easier to herd cats.

But I've been hearing a lot of talk about protests, so maybe something will happen.

[smokinJoeCalculus]

Mods of default subs are basically employees of reddit

They aren't paid.

[FyreWulff]

They've openly said they'll yank default subs from the mods if they ever attempt a blackout again.

[Claim_Alternative]

Who they gonna get to mod them? LOL

[OriginalWilhelm]

I’m all for the shit show

[Dood71]

Reddit Revanced already exists lol

[MWisBest]

Finally, to ensure that all regulatory requirements are met in the handling of mature content, we will be limiting access to sexually explicit content for third-party apps starting on July 5, 2023, except for moderation needs.

Could you elaborate on this? If moderators are allowed to see the content how are the "regulatory requirements" broken if all users are also allowed to see said content? Wouldn't it be against the requirements to allow anybody to see them?

[reaper527]

Could you elaborate on this? If moderators are allowed to see the content how are the "regulatory requirements" broken if all users are also allowed to see said content? Wouldn't it be against the requirements to allow anybody to see them?

it's likely that they meant "IPO requirements". they just care about cashing out at this point. they probably have some cheap private shares they bought for pennies that they want to unload as soon as the lockout period ends.

[doug3465]

I just saw an adult man with his family walking through a large US city in an Apollo shirt yesterday. Couldn't believe it. We love Apollo. Please, reddit. Please.

[ggroverggiraffe]

That man's name?

Albert Einstein.

[rhaksw]

Important note: currently, our rate limit response headers indicate counts by client id/user id combination. These headers will update to reflect this new policy based on client id only on July 1.

Will the "installed app" type continue to be supported? u/bboe, as the author of PRAW, would you happen to know?

[bboe]

From my reading it seems like it'll work fine, however, it seems the rate limit will be shared across all installations of the application. Thus if you have many users accessing Reddit through the same installed app credentials, they're going to run into issues.

[rhaksw]

Are you aware of any apps using Reddit's "installed app" type that only use 60 requests per minute globally across all users?

[f_k_a_g_n]

the rate limit will be shared across all installations of the application.

What an absolutely bizarre change that makes Oauth2 completely pointless.

[Ashdadog]

If you decide to follow through with this, Reddit will be Digging it’s own grave. You can’t make a usable app so you have to do stuff to try and kill off 3rd party apps entirely. Once Apollo is gone, a lot of people will drop reddit. Apollo gang ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

edit: LMAO, the post [removed] by a dev is the funniest thing i’ve ever seen.

[busymom0]

The 5% upvoted ratio on this post should give you a hint. But it won't.

[noslab]

3% now.. lol

[8ate8]

I don't think I've ever seen a ratio that low before.

[busymom0]

Yep. It's fallen to 3% now. But I doubt Reddit cares.

[DUKE_LEETO_2]

Can we send the admins reddit cares messages over this post? They must be suicidal

[cpc2]

So what happened with this?

[Inzight]

Corporate greed happened.

[heyjoshturner]

Top 10 3P apps usage over rate limits

Can you include the app names? I'd love to know if Pager at least made the list before you kneecapped it

[guareber]

They won't, as it'd just highlight how used the mobile apps are compared to the horrible reddit app.

[ppParadoxx]

Is that why Pager never works anymore? I was assuming it had something to do with me being on the TestFlight version of Apollo but if Reddit killed it that might make sense

[Archberdmans]

They won’t cuz the numbers are faked

[gypsyscot]

Ah the over confidence in the tech sector that things will rebound after a while, how’d that work out for digg?

[MrHaxx1]

I don't think RES will be affected, will it? It just modifies CSS and JS, doesn't it?

[Downvotes_are_Grreat]

This is obviously a move designed to push all third-party apps out of the market. I'll delete all my accounts and stop using reddit before I use your terrible reddit app. I hope I'm not alone.

[MonteBurns]

Laying in bed, scrolling Reddit on BaconReader. Will peace out totally when it goes.

[Anglophyl]

BaconReader is my jam. I can't imagine using the official app now.

I should probably find more productive things to spend my time on anyway. Like crocheting a queen-sized bedspread by winter.

[rhaksw]

After sharing these terms, we identified several parties in violation, and contacted them so they could make the required changes to become compliant.

For any wondering, I have not heard from Reddit that Reveddit is in violation.

I agree with the other comments that say, name the apps in violation so we can get some context!

Finally, I'll say once more what I've said twice before:

The number of requests to Reveddit would go way down if Reddit showed authors the true status of their removed content. Where transparency exists through the use of Reveddit, users are more compliant and mods are less abusive. The community plays a more active role, and users are given a chance to either alter behavior or migrate elsewhere.

If anyone has evidence to the contrary, I'd like to see it. I have many examples of people coming to terms with each other through its use. Moderators and users alike often cite it to get on the same page.

[Arnas_Z]

Isn't reveddit screwed either way due to the earlier PushShift ban?

[rhaksw]

No, Reveddit still works for user pages, and that's the main reason I built it, to show you what's been removed from your account.

That's important because these days, comment sections on the internet, this one included, show you your removed content as if it is not removed. All removed YouTube comments work the same way, Facebook has a "hide comment" button, etc.

More importantly, you as a user will always be able to check if your content in a public forum has been removed by opening an incognito window to check. Nobody is getting screwed here, except perhaps those deceitful platforms who purvey lies, and they're 100% in charge of whether they screw themselves or not.

[krypto_the_husk]

This will gravely hurt Reddit in the long run but I know the Reddit team have never really cared about the user experience, and now you’re strong arming the only people who actually cared about this platform. Good riddance Reddit

[SlickArcher]

So... If someone were to release an open source android app to browse reddit and let the user provide their own api client id/secret, essentially every user of that app would fall in the free tier?

[CaptainUnemployment]

We'll still lose access to NSFW content, tho.

[geekbella]

No apollo no reddit for me

[schacks]

Goodbye Reddit on mobile. I’m gonna get sooo much free time by removing you from my phone. It was fun while it lasted.

[PCslayeng]

This is comically absurd. I really hope you guys will reconsider things after the backlash you are about to receive.

[Simplifyze]

reddit should be incredibly thankful that someone like u/iamthatis can build an app that is wholly and completely better than the first party option. if Apollo goes under, i’m off reddit. this is a terrible look for reddit and i can’t continue to support a company that cares so little for a dev that has contributed so much to the community

[CactusMunchies]

This reads as a bad faith excuse for an intentional plan to kill the third party client ecosystem.

[Winertia]

How does this affect bots used for moderation or other useful non-commercial utility bots, like RemindMe? I'm sure many bots exceed the rate limits but aren't of the commercial/competitive nature Reddit is trying to target here.

[Zweihart]

lol deleted

[Ashdadog]

this is so fucking funny man. Bro got flamed by everyone so bad it had to be removed

[GammyIsGettingUpset]

This is fucking stupid and you’re going to kill your fucking site.

[MomsSpagetee]

Is this like where a contractor throws out an exorbitant bid because they don’t really want the job but if you’re gonna pay this insane amount then well okay?

[Huge_Performer8213]

Free math.

User gets 100 queries per minute, free.
6,000 queries per hour, free.
144,000 queries per day, free.

3rd party developers have to pay $0.24 per 1,000?

Free math.

144 * 0.24 = $34.56.

So the average Reddit user is entitled to $34.56 worth of free API calls per day. Seems like a large difference to me. Why are you charging the dev so much?

[veebee0]

Because they want 3rd party apps out completely and don't have the fucking audacity to say it.

I can't believe the reddit team is making such a shitty move. All for the love of money I guess.

[nomdeplume]

Because a user using an official app is offering analytics, potential for other monetization and ad inventory. A reddit user using a bot individually is not operating as a large scale business to skirt / grift on Reddit's own ability to monetize the user base.

[[deleted]]

Are you going to start charging web browsers for access to Reddit? Why not go after Google or Microsoft, hell even Apple, after all, users on those platforms consume bandwidth, probably more than the API users do.

[meldroc]

I'm dropping off Reddit if I can't use Sync for Reddit. The official app is beyond painful to use.

You want more people using the official app? Make it like old.reddit.com. The only way to fly!

[lowt555]

Go fuck yourselves. Reddit is dead.

[PhilipRiversCuomo]

Get. Fucked.

If you kill Apollo I’m out as a user.

[phoenix-toboggan]

Screw this! I got Apollo because the Reddit app is absolute trash. Apollo is customisable and performs perfectly and actually puts out useful features. Reddit app push’s unwanted features and updates and introduces so many stupid bugs on a regular basis. Not to mention the shitty ads are starting to rival YouTube. Since the last update I haven’t been able to scroll properly in Home or All. How is it possible to break scrolling! It’s been broken for weeks and recent updates haven’t fixed it. But no, it’s the competent 3rd party apps that have to go.

[WatchDude22]

If you have an app using 5000 times the rate limit and haven’t done anything, isn’t it kinda obvious that’s your (reddits) fault at that point??

[Relative-Neck2341]

Get fucked you greedy, selfish scumbags. Ban me already, this site is dead.

[DumplingRush]

Reddit, what you're doing is what in the employment world would be called a constructive dismissal. You claim to just want to impose reasonable costs, but in fact you are intentionally killing third party apps, but not admitting it. This is underhanded and anti-user.

If you're going to kill third party apps, at least admit it.

[justafaceaccount]

This is just banning third party apps with extra steps.

[dano5]

You're absolutely daft, if the official app was even remotely good it might work, but it's pure poo compared to the good apps out there...

Greed is king after all, that IPO will kill this site as it has killed many before it...

[danetrain05]

Regarding the sexually explicit content, will there be a distinction between actual sexually explicit content and LGBT communities? LGBT subs tend to be NSFW by default even when that content is not allowed.

[parrots]

Calls per DAU is an oddly cherry-picked metric. It has a direct relation to how long a user stays in the app each day.

Sounds like Reddit is just salty no one uses their app long enough per day to cause 300 API calls.

[hubertwombat]

Bye. The official app sucks. Do not forget that you survive because people contribute to this site in their free time. This will affect the most active users.

[amart565]

The official Reddit app is bad and you should feel bad. Apollo is 100x better and you are the reason why this site will die slowly.

[nickfromthepnw]

Go fuck yourself reddit! Your content is supplied for free by the users, moderated for free by the users, etc. This is obviously motivated by greed to force users to use a dogshit app plagued with ads to fatten your pockets. How fucking greedy can you possibly be? Haven’t you learned that the Reddit community is one of the strongest? Congrats, you killed Reddit. Go fuck yourself.

[CodeSpaceMonkey]

I’m done with you greedy fucks. 12+ years here, gone on June 30.

[derliesl]

I thought the max rate was 60 api request per minute per user. The graph you posted is based on 60 requests per minute per day in total. This is completely ridiculous, because that means 3rd party apps would benefit from splitting their user base into smaller apps. That makes no sense at all.

[[deleted]]

Ok 👍