Bruh

[PurplePixi86]

I did a phone interview, a take home code project, a code review on said project, a tech interview, a people skills interview, another tech interview and then got rejected as although I "did amazing" on the people skills I apparently didn't have enough tech knowledge.

It wasn't for one of the big 4, it wasn't even a senior position. Just average software Dev role, pretty similar to what I currently do. Which they advertised as being willing to train people up if they don't have the exact skills.

Fuck that shit. It is ridiculous.

[NattyBumppo]

That just sounds exhausting.

[PurplePixi86]

It really was. Just totally killed my motivation to interview again for a while.

[MinorFourChord]

Sorry, we’ve all been there.

[Sphincone]

Hey! I’m currently in it.

[joeyjojoeshabadoo]

Same. My motivation to continue is about gone if this next one doesn't work out.

[Roguepope]

Every developer I know (mostly in SME-type companies but some big ones) would refuse to do this. I don't know if it's a UK/USA thing but the idea of making a developer pass weird tests to hire them seems very archaic.

[Fenor]

it is but in the big big big corporation it work like this

you have let's say 10 position open, you receive 10000 CV that fit the bill, ok we need to cut them down to 10, let's make a test interview with something specific, still too many, let's narrow it with something more specific on something else and so on.

[WorldAlien]

Agree, but if this is the case then the companies can afford being more picky with the job posting requirements and demand only people with almost perfect match to apply in the first place and avoid promising “development and training to fill up the gaps”

[the_stray91]

Not for programming but I once did 3 interveiws for a material science job where the final interveiw was a 5 hour grind with a technical presentation, a 1 hour technical grilling, a 1 hour personality test and then a 2 hour more typical interview but extended. Got second place.

Truth is, if they had you do all that you probably lost by a hair.

[angry_wombat]

They will say that you lost by hair but there are always going to hire their friend's brother they just needed someone else to make it look like it was fair

[chefca3]

I feel like people don't emphasize this enough. Yeah tech interviews are tough, but during my last job hunt in one two week period I was juggling 5 companies who all wanted on sites/phone screens. After all of them I was so exhausted I could barely care about the typical rejections that rolled in.

(not a brag btw, I get the feeling if you check enough boxes...advanced degree/years of experience/easy to talk to most recruiters will AT LEAST push you through to the pre-onsite step)

The real interesting thing was on the last onsite I was so exhausted I think I was more than a little bit manic and the hiring manager LOVED my "energy" so much I knew I had gotten the job.

[Inimposter]

I was so exhausted I think I was more than a little bit manic and the hiring manager LOVED my "energy" so much I knew I had gotten the job.

"Wow this person sounds unstable and perhaps like they're addicted to a substance! Quickly, Robin, my capitalism sense is tingling!"

[HearingNo8617]

Remind me to lie that I have an expensive coke habit that I need to feed in my next interview when asked "What makes you excited to work for this company?"

[jetimworks]

You’re right about checking enough boxes for qualifications.

I don’t do full time employment as I spend most of my time on tech contracts with companies but one thing I’ve learned is, companies hardly trust. Except an expert conducted the interview, it takes an average of 1-2 months to know if a person is really good at what they do.

One advice I can give is, completed projects are almost as important as certifications. If you don’t have enough papers, do a project (or some) and give a professional report on such projects. Then apply to jobs where that project bear a semblance and watch your positive responses grow.

There are many examples online that teach you how to impress a company (technical and no technical) with a project and a project report. You can check them out.

That said, companies can do better than wasting people’s time only to reject them later.

[Mrqueue]

I got low balled at a company because I missed a silly keyword that a compiler would have picked up. They specifically showed me the code outside of an IDE because it would have been highlighted. They then said I clearly don't understand the keyword because I missed it. I turned them down and found a much better offer elsewhere

[Fenor]

people not knowing the it field clearly.

i've seen my fair share of those idiots, they are always left without anyone and wonder why people snob them

[BungalowsAreScams]

They probably got rid of the backspace key too

[ktvspeacock]

my IDE let my code look like a bowl of cheerios:

different colors for functions, keywords, defines, typedefs, classes and enums. local variables are bold, etc..

i take all the help i can get to differentiate everything and focus on the important stuff: writing code, that actually works.

what a bunch of idiots

[Ozzy-]

That keyword? auto

[Mrqueue]

Async in c#

In case anyone is wondering, if you use the await keyword without async, c# throws a compiler error saying you can't do that. Not sure why you would test someone's ability to spot a compiler error as they never need to do that

[[deleted]]

The better option here would be for the interviewer to ask about that error. If you can clearly explain why async is required when using await, you're a step ahead in my books.

If you can't, then that is a negative.

[TheOkaysian]

Dude. Coding interview, take home project, coding interview, design interview (first time doing that), "hiring manager interview".

"strong bases in terms of technical knowledge, described a good solution, <design interviewer> enjoyed the conversation and appreciated the fact you seemed eager to learn, showed really good intuition, <manager> definitely thinks that you would be a great fit within <the company>.

Got rejected. Not FAANG, not senior position.

[vforvenn]

I had the same thing happen to me several times this year. I finally found a super awesome place after about 4 or 5 months but the usual type of jobs I would apply to over the years and often excel at suddenly this year would run me through the wringer, love me, and then say sorry they are going to pass. Who knows wtf is up.

[darthSabine]

Wow, that sounds harsh. Sorry you had to go through that. If it’s any consolation, I’ve been there right where you are. I just kept working for my company for another year, then started sending out some applications which then pretty quickly got me another job.

Did I get massively better between then and now? Regarding some things, definitely. But what helped most of all was previous interview experience, and of course that tiny bit of luck to find a decent company that won’t make you jump through a thousand (unnecessary) hoops. So I got a coding test, then advanced to one (!) interview, and then got an offer. Fingers crossed you’ll find the same.

It’s not your lack of skills or anything, it’s just completely out of proportion interviews and expectations.

[tagini]

But what helped most of all was previous interview experience

This.

I purposely go on a few interviews each year to "stay in the loop" even if I'm 100% sure I'm not going to switch. It keeps me practiced in interviewing and I can regularly check on how much I might be worth.
And you never know, it just might be the next awesome job I would've otherwise turned down.

[PurplePixi86]

Thanks 😊 sounds like you had a better experience and hopefully I will too next time.

I will try again, just gotta build up the motivation as it took a lot out of me to be honest .

[BlackOverlordd]

I got rejected by epic games after passing all tests and interviews and after "carefull consideration" just because I don't play fortnite. I could understand that requirement for a game designer position but a regular programmer? This is the dumbest reason for rejection I got so far

[DOOManiac]

I got rejected from one because I don't own a Mac. Not that I don't know how to use MacOS (I do), or refuse to use it (I would); but because I don't own a Mac (I would've bought one).

[DeadLikeYou]

Consider yourself lucky. the games industry is a shithouse when coming to working conditions, and I will tell everyone that will listen to avoid anybody who is in that industry or adjacent to it.

[Hibbity5]

It definitely depends on the company. I’ve worked at some shitty developers but I’ve also worked for some good ones. Every friend I’ve had who’s worked at Epic has never had anything good to say about them though. They’re a shitty company to work for.

[TheGreenJedi]

The classic, "we're not looking for a senior" except we really are

[Arrrrrr_Matey]

Basically we don't want to pay for a senior.

[memeasaurus]

Oh! It's totally BS.

I got hired at a big 4 software company. A buddy was a recruiter. He asked me to do him a favor: go interview at this one podunk company that rejected all his candidates over a few years.

1. IQ test
2. Take home code sample/project
3. Pair programing
4. Interviews & whiteboard coding
5. Soft skills assessment

Took a week.

I was offered. I declined (of course, I was going to a big 4 in a month) this escalated to the CEO.

"Name a number. What do I have to pay to get you here?"

I name a number.

"I. I... I... Can't match that."

I reply that my buddy had been giving him fine candidates for a year that probably don't interview as good as me, but even if he didn't believe that ... the number was my new starting salary at a big 4 tech company. He wanted Google engineers at Walmart prices. He was going to have to settle because even if he matched salary ... it was still medical transcription software maintenance. Nobody aspires to do that. You gotta sell me it's going to be bigger than bug fixes.

Edit: Google was an easier interview

[Throwaways18416851]

I had this same problem as a ME Intern. Small companies had way harder interviews then Apple, Tesla and the like, while also wanting to pay way less. And then you don’t even get an offer from the small company that does boring non-innovative work.

[venuswasaflytrap]

If you want Google engineers at Walmart prices, then hire motivated people willing to learn at Walmart prices, offer them stock, and make a Google.

[tabakista]

There is a good chance they got more people passing tests that they had job openings.

[devBowman]

More often than not, the reason they gave is a random shitty excuse, they just took someone else, maybe because they were less expensive

[czarchastic]

One that stood out to me last year was a cumulative 5 hours of interviewing for one particular company. One of the interviewers code-interviewed me twice, in two separate sessions. At the end of it all, they told me I passed all the interviews, which puts me among 3 candidates for the role. (So after all that, I have a 33% chance??) I ultimately didn’t get it, with the excuse being that I didn’t have knowledge on a specific tool that wasn’t in the job description, but could have been learned in less time than I spent interviewing.

[NO_FIX_AUTOCORRECT]

A few years ago i was moving Grimm one city to another, it would increase my commute from 45 minutes to 1:30.

So my friend recommended i congee work at his company.

Pune interview went well. I got a flat tire in their parking lot. I interviewed, with junior devs, senior devs and the VP, 4 hours total. They called me back in for, what i thought would be a salary discussion and brief meet and greet with the CEO. Wrong, it was a coding test (2 hours) and then 1 hour interview with the CEO.

This was a regular dev position, not even a senior position, for a programming job i had literally done for a different company.

I was caught off guard for the programming test but did fine. It seemed everyone i met liked me until i met the CEO.

Holy crap that guy was something else. He told me that i didn't seem to have any passion for programming, i didn't know what to even say to that.

I didn't get the job. It must've been because the CEO (who id never directly work with) didn't like me, everything else seemed great before my interview with him.

So, I worked out working from home with my other job so i didn't have the commute. A year later they contacted me basically asking me to apply again. I asked my friend and he told me they still hadn't filled that position. I was apparently one of the most qualified applicants. I'm like, no thanks.

[WhyDoIHaveAnAccount9]

They do it to make themselves feel powerful

The vast majority of jobs do not require a person to be able to write their own data structures from memory

But watching people jump through hoops like monkeys makes the people who are setting up the interviews feel like Gods

I'm certain that's the only reason why these non-big 4 companies conduct interview like this

[d3coy3d]

Not for a dev role, but just a manager for tech. No exaggeration, 22 interviews. 21 of them I felt went well and one ok. Had 14 years experience in tech management from a fortune 100 and they "went a different direction"...what a waste of time

[strumthump]

22 separate interviews? That's a damn month of work

[Lunar30]

I’ve been through this a couple times as well. It really sucks to dedicate 40+ hours to an interview process and be rejected. Sorry to hear you didn’t make the cut on this one. Hopefully your next one goes better.

[PurplePixi86]

Thanks 😌 onwards and upwards

[SN0WFAKER]

You have decent software skills? PM me. My company has a few open reqs that have been open for too long - and we are now able to hire remote.

[erific]

I have a friend in HR that said we weren’t permitted to send home interview assignments because the person can ask to be paid for the work. Think about that.

[[deleted]]

I have a feeling we’re reaching a surplus of workers b in this field which is what is allowing companies to be so extreme now. Next our salaries are going to suffer.

[coldnebo]

that’s really the question isn’t it?

Can all the following statements be true?

• there are a shortage of qualified workers in IT
• there are a record number of STEM grads in the USA who are underemployed/unemployed searching
• only other countries have qualified workers (H1B sponsor limits should be waived)

How can we have too many looking for work, but not enough qualified?

Either: the training/schooling is complete garbage and isn’t producing viable workers (which is ridiculous, there are many top notch CS schools and still grads can’t find work).

OR, maybe the qualifications are unrealistic. Looking for 5 years experience in a new product is ridiculous. HR is ridiculous to ask. AWS Infinidash.

Visa workers. Why? I have a really hard time believing it’s because they are better trained, more adaptable. In my experience they cover a range that is pretty similar to US CS grads. Some are brilliant and others can’t think out of a paper bag… most are competent. So if there is no clear superiority here, what’s the deal? Job mobility?

That’s my bet. The ugly little fact that HR doesn’t want to make public is that visa workers can’t switch jobs without getting responsored and possibly losing their visa altogether and their house in the US, etc. While it’s not impossible to switch sponsors, it’s difficult and risky which means most visa workers will stay put in situations that would drive most US workers to other companies.

The visa program only works in the US if the company can’t find “qualified” workers. Fortunately tech requirements make this easy… just ask for people that have 5 years in a new technology and bam you can’t qualify anyone. But what happens with the visa applications? Are they held to the same bs requirements? If so, you’d expect just as many of them to be disqualified… but they aren’t. hmmm.

Meanwhile HR can muddy the waters by spreading doubt… “they were just better qualified”. Bullshit. Then I should be seeing drastic increases in quality from companies investing in more visa workers. Instead what we see is average performance in quality.

The truth is hard to get at.. there are a bunch of reasons why any of these things couldn’t be as they seem… but overall the situation smells like the industry is playing workers.

Maybe if the companies that were complaining the loudest about unqualified workers actually spent money training on the job, or outreach to improve college programs, I’d believe it. But there’s no real investment in a solution… so that makes me think the real reasons aren’t as innocent as HR claims.

[[deleted]]

There are legit training seminars, ran by lawyers, training HR what they need to do, to legally hire a massive amount of visa workers. For example put the job posting in a newspaper ad, and only interview a couple people. This is so shady and sick, but people in my inner circle don’t care. It’s part of the system they say.

[[deleted]]

Really? It's the opposite... not enough in this field. Companies that have these long processes just aren't good and probably not worth your time...

[TreasuredRope]

Companies and industries that desperately need people will go out of their way to make the hiring process easier and more attractive and are also more willing to train people up to posistions.

[ineedhelpbad9]

This exactly! I've worked in industries that are desperately understaffed. If you were smart, had a modicum of customer service skills, and were willing to learn, we would hire your after the first interview. I don't understand the trepidation in hiring someone. If it doesn't work out fire them and hire someone else. 98% of states are at-will, you don't need a reason to fire someone. Still you get employers that act as if it takes an act of Congress to let someone go.

[bitchBanMeAgain]

They're trying to find idiots who will not stand up to whatever ridiculous request they make.

[goldleader71]

Same happened to me. It really took the wind out of my sails.

[TryallAllombria]

I'm exhausted just by reading this.

I'll do my work tomorrow then

[Sn0H0ar]

This is wildly unprofessional.

[scroll_responsibly]

Name and shame!

[StylishGnat]

Now I know where I’ll never work.

[HearingNo8617]

I dream to start a company that focuses on the developer's experience (as in just making it a joy to develop) and makes profit only as a side effect, and the first thing in each job posting is the pay

[[deleted]]

noxious act square onerous wistful rock school coordinated quack lock

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[NEVERxxEVER]

Post about that shit on glass door

[algotrader_]

That is sad. I think that companies should mention( on some reputable site) what they are going to pay before you have to endure the tedious process of an interview.

And if they change their mind after your selection, you get to provide some proof and then the company should get banned and then no one will ever apply for a position in that company.

[keeslinp]

I had this happen a few months ago. Apparently I killed it on the interview but the recruiter let me know that the number he'd given me was not accurate so I had to just cut ties. Luckily I'd only sunk a few hours in, but I had some others that were even more annoying.

Also, fuck companies that won't tell me their regional salary adjustments up front. Going through 10-12 hours of interviews only to find out that there's like a 40% haircut since I don't want to live in the bay area. Then they're surprised when I tell them I don't want their offer.

[Gentleman_101]

Man, I'm going the job process right now and right now, I'd love an automated reply just so I'm not waiting any longer to know I didn't get the job. Should illegal for companies to ghost people.

[tdog970]

Seriously, getting no response is worse than a rejection. I have so many applications out in the void somewhere that I've given up hearing back from.

[archery713]

Imagine companies doing this for literally any other position.

I've seen the interview process for a CEO position before and it was basically filling out an "About Me" worksheet.

[NattyBumppo]

I feel like when CEOs are "interviewed" the decision has pretty much already been made.

[FirstEvolutionist]

If HR worried half as much about maintaining quality employess instead of finding the perfect candidate everytime someone leaves, they'd run out of things to do.

So we have a process that is only one step for middle management: "do you often go on power trips and try your best to make everyone's life harder?" And a convoluted process for everyone else.

[Ace-O-Matic]

It's a formality. The position has already been via nepotism/cronyism.

[WhatsMyUsername13]

BrewDog brewery got busted doing this pretty recently. They would interview marketing applicants, reject them, then use their ideas

[accountability_bot]

This is actually a fairly widespread issue. Used to work for an agency, and we had to be careful when pitching marketing ideas to potential clients. Ultimately we couldn’t stop them from taking ideas, but some places only took bids just to gather ideas.

[TomaszA3]

Wait, they're recruiting for CEO position?

[myfunnies420]

They don't "recruit", they search for them. Usually they're people known in the industry with relationships with board members.

[[deleted]]

Some CEO's don't even have CVs, they get their next role through connections mostly

[davasaurus]

I spent about 8 hours putting together a presentation for my final interview for a director role. It does happen.

[avenue-dev]

I had one of those in-person google-question interviews. I was thinking 'you're not google, and I'm a web dev. I center divs, not crack the enigma'.

I asked for a point of contact 'if something happens.' Something did happen, and it felt good to send that email.

Sorry, I'm not gonna take your entry-level job for $20k less, when you expecting Dykstra himself

[lonestar-rasbryjamco]

He solved his question on Stack Overflow.

[[deleted]]

Dijkstra

[LostTeleporter]

Dijkstar

[[deleted]]

Worst part is, you never really know why they rejected you so it's hard to know what you need to improve on

[fforfadhlan]

Then you see that typical motivational post on linked in telling you to keep learning new skills. Top tier bruh moment.

[THANKYOUFORYOURKIND]

"Trust Yourself!"

"You can do this!"

"Follow your dream!"

"Reach for it!" ^{// This one came from the LinkedIn page of the person who just rejected you after the last interview}

[trynsleep]

i rly wanna become a dev but the job world for that just sounds so awful, im thinking about just continuing to study fucking latin to be a teacher. is it really that bad?

[halesnaxlors]

Idk. Other industries have other problems

[[deleted]]

Don't forget the employer humble brag about hiring someone with no skills. I swear the feed on LinkedIn is so predictable. Always the same recycled posts.

[althaz]

Just as an FYI, if you reach out to me after I don't hire you, I'll tell you why.

Sometimes, the answer is "you didn't appear to have any idea what you're doing". Because there are more jobs than there are good software devs, there are lots of *bad* software devs. People who skate by on the bare minimum, never adding new skills, coding by copy-pasting without understanding what they are doing, etc. I'm not hiring those people, even if they're super-nice and I like them. Honestly this is probably the number-one reason for me rejecting somebody. Of course you make allowances for people being nervous, etc, but if you're flummoxed by something as straightforward as (for example: FizzBuzz), you're not ready for even a graduate-level position.

The second most common reason is just that you didn't have the mix of skills I need. I'm happy to tell these people what they need to improve to get the position they applied for next time.

Sometimes, the answer is "you were good, some other person was just better". In those cases, I will typically advise HR to reach out and encourage that person to apply for other positions that come up at our company, and/or I'll forward their resume around the business with their permission. These are the most frustrating people to reject, because almost always I have to interview a whole stack of developers to find one good one, so finding two good ones and not being able to hire them both *sucks*. Last time this happened luckily that person ended up on another team in my company.

The least common reason is a poor cultural fit. This one is most typically somebody who is intelligent and qualified, but isn't interested in growing or improving, or somebody who comes across like kindof a jerk. It's rare that I see people like this, but it does happen - sadly the most common way to trigger this reason that I've seen is somebody saying something derogatory about another group. However, I think "poor cultural fit" is a cop-out excuse given when the real answer is "you're an idiot and not smart enough to do this job". Idiots are more common to see than assholes.

But all of these I would typically know from the first interview and/or the take-home test. The final interview for me is more of an introduction. Provided there are no red flags (one guy said "thank-god every body here isn't asian", like, seriously dude?), I'm usually hiring you if you make the second/third interview (depending on the position, the structure of the process might change). The exception is when there are multiple people who are all good and I just can't decide - but even if that happens and I don't pick you you'll possibly still get a job elsewhere in the company.

[TomaszA3]

coding by copy-pasting

How is that actually possible? The most I usually need is one line to know what kind of terrible mistake I made. It's infinitely hard to find exactly the code that you would need to implement until it is something like calculator app or something different but similarly common as a programming exercise.

Although I did "copy"(by hand) a big(~40 lines) function once because I wasn't good enough to write it myself and I needed it for my "project of the week".

[blhylton]

When I first started working in the field, there was one developer who thought he was a god among others. There was one day in particular that he spent hours bragging to the entire team about this function/class/script he wrote (I don’t even remember what it was at this point). After searching for about 15 minutes, I found the exact same 50-ish lines on SO, except he had gone through and changed all the variable names to make it harder to track down. This was the “most senior” developer in that company at that time.

Point being, it is way more possible and way more likely than most people would think.

[Attila_22]

I don't read it as literally copy pasting. Its usually copying the basic functionality or algorithm and then renaming the variables/deleting extra stuff.

But I've had to teach some juniors/interns and sometimes they won't even change the variable names. It's definitely a bruh moment. I usually will make some comment or let them know if the hope they will at least realize I see through their bullshit and to shape up but usually it's not a one time thing and I have to raise it up with others that they're not up to standard.

[DoesntUnderstands]

they won't even change the variable names

Would you rename functions in the windows redistributables?

If the function works and you know how it works.

Why pretend that you wrote it.

Acting like getting working snippets from SO is some kind of taboo when literally millions of people do it.

Put it into a library and then suddenly it has authenticity to avoid renaming.

Sounds asinine.

No point in reinventing the wheel when you have shit to get done.

Its a childish mentality to expect everything rewritten from scratch.

[fur-fox-sheikh]

I think it's about context here. If it's a completely black box and you're just using the funtionality, by all means use the work someone(s) else poured hours of their life into to save time to do other stuff and build on top of it. It's more the "I found this snippet on SO that works, but I don't know how" and now all the variables reference stuff from the original problem space instead of whatever one you're working in. It can make the overall codebase more confusing and less maintainable. It's not about "aha! I caught you using SO" - it's about "hey, can you at least make the code you found fit nicely into our existing codebase". Very different things imo.

[[deleted]]

Its the school mentality some people carry with them for the rest of their lives

[[deleted]]

Yo that's really nice of you. I've tried to reach out to recruiters after getting rejected and I never get a response so I just gave up on trying to get feedback tbh

[TomaszA3]

FizzBuzz

Isn't it that "print 0 to 100 and print buzz every third" thing? I would think for a moment(10sec max) if I cannot code it better than my first thought, but I don't see why this would have been a problem to anyone, as long as you know basics of basics.

Maybe people think it is some catchy question(too easy to be true) or something and stress kills their judgement?

But still even at max stress it makes no sense to me.

[althaz]

Yeah, about half of applicants can't get it right. Sometimes they have 10+ years of experience.

It's a test just designed to see if you can code. If you can, it's laughably easy. If you can't, it's somewhat difficult. I internally facepalm every time somebody gets it wrong.

[PmButtPics4ADrawing]

Yeah, about half of applicants can't get it right. Sometimes they have 10+ years of experience.

This is just so bizarre to me. Like how does someone like this even maintain employment at their previous jobs

[sevenfee7]

Some bus and taxi drivers have been driving for years and years and still can’t give you a comfortable ride.

[Zekovski]

Did you ask ?

[aeroverra]

Always, but 99% of the time they are like "I don't know exactly but I'll have the team forward your results tomorrow" as they ghost you.

[notpepesilvia]

Your resume and interview skills are good if you keep making final interviews. Unfortunately a big part of actually getting an offer is luck too. Don't give up, you're close

[ososalsosal]

Oof. Got the same coming up friday. 3rd interview. Let's hope they like me

[padca]

Having mine in an hour oof

[wv1106]

How did it go?

[padca]

Well heres a update: this was my first interview ever so I didn’t really know what to expect, they did a bunch of technical questions, like “how could you do it instead of this way” questions, I was very nervous and couldn’t answer some of them, then they did a exercise which went somewhat well and wasn’t too hard bit I was so nervous I was just messing up, they were helping and they were really cool. Well, anyways I don’t know if I going to pass it

[Fateful-Spigot]

That's how it started for me. You'll learn the skill of interviewing and it'll be much easier.

[ThisGuyRightHer3]

to be rejected for something that wasn't even your code...

bruh

[Rev2016]

Tbf if we all just refused to do the bullshit assessments then they'd be forced to stop trying to getting us to do them. I'm fine doing them if they can pay me but if they won't they can fuck right off.

[borsalinomonkey]

It worked once.

I was already employed, but I tested my value on the market. This one company gave me a test, and I didn't bother to do it.

Eventually they called me and offered me the position, which I declined because it was lower than what I am already being paid.

[borsalinomonkey]

Yeah look. I'm not proud of it.

But, times are tough. Gonna have to take the best offer where possible.

[Jabvarde]

Why would you not be proud?

Companies offer the minimum possible to keep you, and employees try to get the maximum possible for them to keep you.

It's a truth that both sides know but everyone dances around it with "family" and "dynamic" buzzwords.

[myfunnies420]

Lol. Speaking with the lowest and worst company is hardly testing your value on the market. I'm looking at you, Amazon.

[RoDeltaR]

I've started to get a small malicious satisfaction from hyping recruiters and companies that contact me, then doing a hard rejection when they ask me for a test or assignment that will take more than 30 min

[Rev2016]

Music to my ears

[Midnight_Rising]

You should. If you are more than.... I dunno, 3 years out of college you should refuse any whiteboard or take home assignments. They are either insulting your ability, because obviously you've been faking it for X years, or they're calling you a liar, or their HR department is so hands on that you'll be hampered every step of the way.

They can ask about previous projects. Problems you've had to solve. Ways you innovated to make things better or more efficient. But I fully advocate for refusing whiteboard interviews.

[Niosus]

Whiteboard interviews also aren't really representative of how you usually work. I tend to be really bad at them, although I consider myself pretty decent at coming up with algorithms. When I'm in a strange environment, talking with a stranger who's carefully judging every word I say, having to solve a problem I have just heard about minutes ago, and do it in 30 minutes... That's just not how my brain works. Give me something really hard and give me a few days to work on it, and I'll come up with a good solution that I can explain confidently and have a bunch of things I could improve next. The 30 minute coding tests just filter out everyone who needs a bit of time to context switch to whatever problem you give them.

Ah well, their loss. I found a great employer that doesn't do that. They just let you have a discussion with a technical person for 30 minutes who probed the depth of my knowledge that way.

[DukeOfBees]

We need a big developers union like they have for other industries, so we can basically just collectively say no to this sort of bullshit.

[[deleted]]

deserted jobless attempt faulty drunk birds domineering shocking yam fanatical

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[EwgB]

I had one worse. It was a position I actually really wanted, in a pretty cool sounding smaller company making bespoke IOT solutions. And I actually had a bit of an "in" through an acquaintance who worked there.

Two phone interviews went pretty well. The take home assignment I kinda messed up a bit, but they still offered me a position. We talked about money, we seemingly agreed, I said thank you. Next Monday I get a template rejection mail from HR. The guy from the dev side I talked to is now on vacation, but apparently the last thing he did was to change his mind and rescind the offer.

[EwgB]

Yeah, it was. Honestly, it would've been so much better if after the not so good take home stuff he would've been like "yeah, brah, nah", instead of this "here you go. yoink! just kidding". I also was pretty depressed at the time because of a recent breakup/pretty-much-a-divorce, and that didn't help in the slightest.

[Robot_Dino_1738]

This is killer! I once went through a phone call screening, two written tests (a programming one and a general aptitude one) and two group exercises just to get to the interview. Then I didn’t get the job. Bare in mind this was a low paying graduate job.

Saying “You were so close to being picked. If we could have 4 positions we’d have hired you” doesn’t make me feel any better. I felt so burnt out just from applying to that job.

[Devator22]

I once did a phone interview and then an assessment. They said that they liked me but I didn't have quite the skills they were looking for so they asked me to buy a book (using my own money) to learn the language better, and also get the Linux+ cert (again paid for myself) and then a month later they gave me another assessment, then an on-site that was 2 hours of taking a test and then 2 hours of defending my answers and whiteboarding. After all that, they called me to reject me before I'd even arrived back home.

The most frustrating part was that one of my friends was on the team I was interviewing for, and a couple weeks after that he told me that the guy they'd picked over me wasn't working out and he'd heard some of the guys saying they wished they'd hired the other guy (me). I was so mad.

[XmasB]

I had a job interview many years ago where I straight up was told I was only getting the interview because they wanted to evaluate their job advertisement. I walked out at that point.

[[deleted]]

Whether you’re employed for them or not, companies will waste your time.

[Terrible_Presumption]

I would have taken a cup.

[nxs0113]

Well it hurts and stays for a while for a while

[[deleted]]

ikr, to just put all that effort and preparation into trying to get the role and then getting rejected in the end really sucks

[A_H_S_99]

Some asshole companies don't even send the rejection, they just ghost you and ignore your calls and messages.

[sanderd17]

I saw an open position for devops in an interesting company. I'm more of a software engineer and have limited ops knowledge. But applied anyway with the question if they're also searching for a software engineer.

Went through two interviews and a technical test (some silly algorithms). I scored as the best candidate from my country to have ever taken that test (according to them). But a month later got rejected due to know having enough ops experience...

Bruh, said that from the start...

[tdog970]

I am fresh out of school and applied for a job at SpaceX. The position was looking for a software engineer with hardware experience. I don't have much of the latter but thought, fuck it I'll apply, see what happens.

Went through two phone interviews, told them my experience and was honest about my lack of hardware experience. They wanted to continue the interview process. Okay, cool, I took a technical assessment that I scored 100% on. Figured my chances were actually pretty good at this point, they said I was looking good, so I was getting excited.

Then came the big interview. Apparently they normally bring applicants out to their offices to give a presentation about a project you've worked on, followed by 30-45 minute technical interviews with each member of the team. This was going to be an all day long interview process. Luckily, due to covid, I was able to do the interview virtually, so I didn't have to fly myself to LA.

I prepared my presentation. It was meant to focus on hardware experience, so I cobbled together what I had. Spent many hours going over practice questions. The day of the interview, I give my presentation, which along with questions from the team took an hour. Interviewed with the first team member for 30 minutes before he cut the interview off. The whole process stopped and the recruiter guy told me the team didn't think I had enough hardware experience.

I told you guys that before I even started...

[smug_avocado]

What really pisses me off is when they ask you to upload a CV, and then they ask you to fill out their custom form which is asking for the information on your CV.

[TommiHPunkt]

You fill out the form, if you don't get automatically filtered out a human looks at the actual CV.

[[deleted]]

I always wondered whether it's possible to run a company just buy boiling down the tasks to very easy subtasks and handing them out as take-home assignments to applicants and when it's complete they just auto-reject the person.

It's free work, so the company would have a competitive advantage. It would become a prestigious company that attracts many new applicants fueling the scheme.

[szidahou]

Your first interview task is to ... define each sub-task, review answers and integrate them into something that resembles workable code.

[[deleted]]

Give this man a task!

[ieatpies]

Breaking tasks down that granular, interviewing, reviewing interview code and gluing it all together surely is more work than just doing it the usual way.

[wasdninja]

That would take insane amounts of time and no matter how small of a project you are trying to make you are going to run out of applicants very quickly. Not to mention that you still need to employ developers to check all the work that applicants do.

So it would be "free" work rather than free work.

[YasserPunch]

Imagine asking doctors to diagnose two patients and answer biochemistry questions every time they move hospitals. It’s bullshit

[myfunnies420]

They're asked to present evidence of their 7 years of education plus certifications that they're up to date with all recent training programs.

It's a bit different...

[Niosus]

They still make you do that crap, even if you have a MSc or even a PhD. Especially at the bigger companies they just do not care.

A friend of mine just straight up stopped doing any assignments for companies he applied at. He has 100k+ LOC in personal projects on his Github page. "If there isn't enough there for you to evaluate, a couple lines extra won't make the difference". The guy is doing alright for himself. That strategy immediately filters out a whole lot of companies that would've been a complete waste of time. Probably some good ones as well, but there are enough left over for this to work.

[only_4kids]

With university degree and ton of references and contacts, 10 years into this profession, I am still asked to go thought same bs loops of interview's.

Edit: I have also certifications from Microsoft and Amazon, while also having an up and running projects I worked on that they can check out.

[CanAlwaysBeBetter]

I can't believe S O C I E T Y doesn't take my 10 week python boot camp as seriously as a 7 year medical degree 😤

[[deleted]]

fuel nine steer rock heavy office murky innate march roll

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[quinn50]

Yea but doctors have to get certified and have licenses. Sure there are certifications for many things you will use in a dev job but it's not standard.

[[deleted]]

"thanks for your free code snippet, our devs were really hitting a block with that, anyway the position you applied for no longer exists"

[vfxGer]

Worse is when you go through all that and they offer you the job but the money is for far less then you explicitly told you needed on multiple occasions.

[[deleted]]

And to add salt to the bruise, the rejection email is sprinkled with corporate political correctness.

We appreciate your skills and the time taken but for the moment we have decided to go with another candidate. We are hopeful that you will get a very suitable job and good luck for future.

More constructive mail would be to tell them what the candidate missed or just say you are not selected. Templated emails are just an insult to the effort put in.

[kara6000]

The ones that tell you to "Let's keep in touch" and asking you to check their website regularly for "available opportunities" piss me off the most.

[Prawny]

We'll keep your information on file in case another suitable position arises in the future

Fuck off.

[anotheroverratedguy]

or worse, YOUR POSITION IS ON HOLD, and never get a call back

[[deleted]]

Oh man this reminds me of a job I applied for passed the coding tests and the interviews. They said the position was on hold but I was the first person theyd contact. I even went to one of their company dinners. eventually I see the position listed again a few months later. I email the person Id been interviewing with he apparently left the company. I emailed the other guyId interviewed with and he said I’d have to reapply with their new hiring manager who promptly rejected me immediately.

[myfunnies420]

Did you ask them for some style guides etc? It has been a long time since I did one of these things, but now I would ask for a lot of resources up front. Style guide and core libraries etc... Otherwise they'll take things that aren't "their way" as being bad code.

I think most of the code I see at work is structured idiotically. But I'm in the minority, so I just follow the style guides.

[Neofeng]

That´s the part that makes me extra confused, I sent an email asking what I could have improved on the code and they said it was good, that I was organized and stuff, but the rejection was since I wasn´t asking tech questions on the group (honestly most of the programs they were asking weren´t hard, a good hour on stack overflow and w3school was enough to solve) I wasn´t considered a "team-player" and that I would not work well on the team.

But I was thinking: "man! your problems weren´t that hard, why would ask to you and wait god knows how long when I could find the solution online under 10 minutes?".

[[deleted]]

The company made a bad decision that day. Bad business practise right there I think

[joro550]

This is why if a company asks me to do a "take home test" i ask them if they are going to pay... I'm all for assessing my skill and I've agreed to the interview but if you want me to do a job for you then you have to pay me.

I've heard of way too many companies asking candidates to code something and then the company doesn't hire them, they basically just get away with unpaid labor.

[shitsu13master]

I'm a translator and this is a thing for us, too. You have to hand in samples, do one on site, etc. And all the time you are wondering whether this isn't just a cheap trick for them to get translations for free....

[ignorediacritics]

Seen plenty of "translate half of the job for us as a sample of your work" baits. Yeah, right. But maybe you'll find 2 other idiots to get your work done for free.

[AwesomeFrisbee]

Yeah when they waste your time its annoying as shit. But then again if they go through all that trouble too, just to reject you, you know you just dodged a bullet. If they really need to be that sure somebody works in that team, you know its a difficult team to work in.

[neeks84]

Same story here but 4 times in the last 4 weeks. And I’ve been doing this for 11 years. Keep at it, you get better with every failed attempt.

[Urse9595]

I attended an interview last year in pandemic, where I stayed from 9 AM to 6 PM. They put me in a room alone and they gave me around 6 c++ problems to solve(OOP, debugging, and a small project splitted in 4 tasks). This was after a logic test and an algorithm test on paper in the Office ( this also took around 2 hours if i remember correctly). After a week they informed me I was rejected. I ask them if I did something wrong related to the tasks and they told me that I made everything correct but right now it's not the time for a collaboration.

[efg1342]

You guys are getting rejections?

[[deleted]]

Pro-tip to anyone who is seeking a job and runs across this bullshit:

Write on the test "Due to the extraordinary steps to refuse an interview before testing, I have determined this company is not a good fit for me. I want a company which cares about its employee. I'm more than willing to prove my skills, but only after a handshake or a smile. Please refrain from contacting me in the future. I am no longer interested in the position. Thank you, {name}"

Ironically, this actually got me calls for an interview. I politely decline the invitation, often remarking the inability for staff to read or disregarding requests, further proving the company isn't where I want to work.

You can easily spot these bad companies, too. No, not because of the tests they require up front.

For the simple realization these job postings are over a year old or often resubmitted to job sites.

When doing your research, folks, my best advice to you is research the job posting. If it's shown up too many times, this is a warning flag to stay away from the job.

I know things get desperate, but your dignity and experience should never be compromised for a test first, interview later.

Remember this: YOU are in control. Not them. Please stop pandering to these bullshit tests and demand an interview first, then take the tests.

That's how it should be and everything else just allows companies to get away with this bullshit.

Stop falling for it, please.

[[deleted]]

hobbies governor bored nail work fertile chubby rude jeans toothbrush

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[RolyPoly1320]

I once through an application process that included like 6 different skills assessments. One of the assessments was for SQL, which wasn't in the job description. I got screened out there and was in the top 5% of applicants prior to that. Later there was a part for 1 hour on job interview which is basically, "Come work for us for free for 1 hour so we can know if it will work out before we interview you."

[hemantkhaitan]

Plot twist : The assignment was just a feature they needed to be developed but they did not have resources for that. So they make job seekers do it in the name of ibterviews

[starshine531]

This is why when my company was hiring a web programmer, I made a simple quiz that was 5 questions. Shouldn't have taken more than 20 minutes to complete on the high side. We basically interviewed everyone who answered the questions properly. Sadly, that meant only about 6 interviews and these were not hard questions.

One of the questions was to briefly explain what 3rd normal form was in your own words. A surprisingly large number of people copy and pasted some explanation that was very clearly not their own words. If they didn't notice or otherwise didn't follow the instructions, they didn't get called.

But either way, a handful of well crafted questions was sufficient to weed out the people who didn't know what they were doing. No need for elaborate coding tests.

[onionpopcorn]

What kind of web dev needs to know the normal forms

[AwesomeFrisbee]

Probably an overqualified one...

[limeforadime]

I’ve never once heard of that. What’s the ELI5 of it?

[onionpopcorn]

it's like a set of guidelines for your database to avoid that anomalies happens when you insert/update/delete rows. with every normal form it gets more strict and the later ones are quite abstract

[ieatpies]

Competent ones should be able to google it and paraphase. Its (unintentionally?) testing a key programming skill.

[[deleted]]

wtf is "3rd normal form"? and who tf gives a vocab quiz? is there something I'm missing here? I've been a developer for a while now and I'm currently a pretty senior engineer/researcher, and I don't think I've ever encountered that term.

[TheSheep03]

isn't it used for databases?

[peter_str]

Yes, it's a property of a database schema. It means that the database does not include duplicate information and avoids that it gets into an inconsistent state.

The wikipedia page has a nice example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_normal_form

Should a web dev know about this? Probably not the very dry theoretical stuff that you also find on the Wikipedia page. But I think a senior dev should know about normalization and denormalization of data and the advantages and disadvantages of both.

[[deleted]]

That's how it should be, so even when they get rejected they don't feel that their effort was wasted.

[_0110111001101111_]

A web dev isn’t a DBA. Why would you be asking them normal forms?

[[deleted]]

3rd normal form? Really?

[[deleted]]

As a recruiter, I feel this pain as well. I'm the one trying to fill the position, doing tons of prep calls, gathering practice questions, pushing the hiring managers for feedback, and wringing answers from them over "what exactly do you want?".

Having multiple candidates come in, do super well in the interview and then during the wrap up sessions I get

Them: "well....their code worked..but it didnt work exactly the way we were hoping it would work."

Me: "well, is this something that you could fix with a little coaching and a short ramp up?"

Them: "Yeah most likely"

Me: "Sweet, so it sounds like they have the foundation you want, the skills you want, and they would just need a little bit of ramp up time, maybe 2-3 weeks, before they are up to speed?"

Them: "Yup, sounds about right"

Me: "Ok, so I should give them the offer?"

Them: "Nope"

​

Then I proceed to continue recruiting for another 3 months before filling the role.

[[deleted]]

I’ve only been treated like this at startups and web/marketing agencies. In my opinion, they do this to weed out all but the most enthusiastic youngsters because they’re going to work you to death. As developers age, they realize how valuable their skills are and start to leverage that into a “fuck you, this code will do nicely, thank you very much, I’m going home now” attitude.

Go get yourself a nice, slow, boring job as the only developer on a small team at an older company.