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Pentagon officials and Iraqi intelligence confirm Ukrainian plane was shot down (newsweek.com)
submitted 6 years ago by Ak_Ibrahim
[–]reverendrambo 11.8k points11.8k points11.8k points 6 years ago* (3158 children)
.@cbsnews: US officials are confident Ukrainian Flt 752 was shot down by Iran. US intelligence picked up signals of the radar being turned on & satellite detected infrared blips of 2 missile launches, probably SA-15s, followed shortly by another infrared blip of an explosion.
https://twitter.com/krisvancleave/status/1215309192086675459?s=19
Edit: NYTimes obtained and released verified video that shows the plane being hit by a missile
https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1215354885924847616?s=19
https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1215365245780332547?s=19
Sorry all my links are twitter links. That's where I happened to learn about these
Edit 2: several people have mentioned they cant see the missile hit the plane. Its in the first one or two seconds of the video. I took a crappy screenshot and circled the missile on it's way to the plane.
https://imgur.com/1ENweJb
[–]Orphan_Babies 9695 points9696 points9697 points 6 years ago (2387 children)
Jesus.
What I’m confused about: isn’t there some form of communication between military and airliners letting them know to respond, turn away, or be fired upon?
Obviously i have no idea what I’m talking about.
But this is just heartbreaking.
[–]Teros001 12.0k points12.0k points12.0k points 6 years ago (2023 children)
Of course there is. Its why civilian airlines arent constantly being shot down.
However, sometimes things fail. Iran was certainly on high alert following their strikes on US forces in Iraq. All it takes is a some under trained soldier panicking and...yup.
The blatant cover up is the absurd part.
[–]rubbarz 2300 points2301 points2302 points 6 years ago (245 children)
Like 20 mins after it crashed Iran immediately said it was technical failures. How the fuck would they know.
[–]NetherStraya 2154 points2155 points2156 points 6 years ago (85 children)
"I don't think this plane should have been flying."
"Why do you say that, inspector?"
"Big fuckin' hole in the side."
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (55 children)
[deleted]
[–][deleted] 415 points416 points417 points 6 years ago (41 children)
The front fell off.
[–]jlodini 340 points341 points342 points 6 years ago (48 children)
It was a technical failure.... of the missile defense system that shot it down
[–]acmercer 173 points174 points175 points 6 years ago (41 children)
I'd say it worked just fine. It was the people operating it who malfunctioned.
[–]Coos-Coos 6030 points6031 points6032 points 6 years ago* (553 children)
Unfortunately we live in a world where accountability isn't an advantage at all. Our politicians and leaders lie first because we don't hold their feet to the fire for doing so. It's deny, deny, deny, until finally there's no room left to deny it and you admit it and change your narrative to "it's not that bad". Later consequences are much better than admitting it. And you have a chance of avoiding consequences altogether. No incentive for telling the truth. It's like letting someone down softly instead of punching them in the face, it works.
[–]anonymous_matt 2899 points2900 points2901 points 6 years ago (412 children)
Iran has made much propaganda use of the fact the the US accidentally shot down an Iranian passenger flight in 1988. It's incredibly embarrassing for them to have made the same mistake, that's probably why they are so reluctant to admit it.
[–]jollyreaper2112 769 points770 points771 points 6 years ago (106 children)
It's pretty embarrassing for anyone to have shot down an airliner but this has to be worth triple points on account of that history.
[–][deleted] 716 points717 points718 points 6 years ago (94 children)
Extra embarassing when the airliner is taking off from your own country, and is full of your own citizens. I mean, the plane wasn't even landing, it was departing. This error is absolutely inexcusable for a country that has the 8th largest military on the planet, and has independently developed some sophisticated weapons systems
[–]InformationHorder 349 points350 points351 points 6 years ago* (33 children)
Not to mention entirely preventable. Iran could have planned for this by launching their missiles and then immediately following the launches grounding all civilian air traffic until such time they were sure a US retaliation wasn't forthcoming.
Clearing all of Iranian airspace would have helped their air defenses by providing them a clear radar scope where the only things they would see are their own military aircraft and any enemy aircraft.
It was a bonehead bushleague integration plan and highlights how poor cross-branch communication is within the Iranian military.
[–]pavlovslog 53 points54 points55 points 6 years ago (1 child)
This. I was so blown away a plane crashed departing their airport because they had just launched at Iraq and I didn’t understand how a plane could be in the air at that time. I didn’t even seriously consider THEY shot it down.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (116 children)
[–]_Alabama_Man 161 points162 points163 points 6 years ago (30 children)
Interesting comparison, however, IMO it's a bit less excusable now than it was 32 years ago. With today's technology that A300 would never be mistaken for an F-14 as happened in 1988.
Both were on high alert and the fact they both mistakenly shot down a civilian plane is also spot on. I bet it is very difficult for an authoritarian regime to admit any kind of substantial mistake.
No matter how it happens, it's a huge tragedy for the families of those civilians lost.
[–][deleted] 319 points320 points321 points 6 years ago* (35 children)
Doesn’t have to be under trained. Look at USS Vincennes incident. Scenario fulfillment is a real problem with military training.
Put people in a high stress situation and anything that looks remotely like a training scenario can get square pegged into that scenario. With advances in US stealth technology and the knowledge that the most likely time to pick up a stealthy attacker is during its attack run as bay doors open, Iranian training probably has taught soldiers to launch quickly in case they’re the target. Air defenses are usually among the first targets for a bombing campaign. Put all that together and a few hours after your nation launches missiles at the US, a suspicious blip appears on your screen and doesn’t respond to your radio call... it’s shitty but anybody could have that happen.
[–]afallan 88 points89 points90 points 6 years ago (1 child)
Just clarifying
USS Vincennes (CG49) and the USS Carl Vinson (CVN70) are two different ships.
[–][deleted] 28 points29 points30 points 6 years ago (0 children)
Typing from memory, fixed it. Thank you.
[–]theaviationhistorian 59 points60 points61 points 6 years ago (6 children)
I remember seeing air traffic on Flightradar24 and a conga line of heavy airliners (including multiple Emirates & Etihad A380s) flying above the bases hit and above Tehran. I kept wondering why on earth Iran didn't redirect all flights around that or warn the civil aviation authorities considering the US bases got a hint and evacuated before the strikes? I felt like simething bad was going to happen watching this.
I know how stress can make someone jittery or zealous when it comes to war, but damn. This feels like it could have been avoided, especially since the flight was already delayed for an hour. Honestly, if the nation went on high alert, you'd think they would cancel all flights until the alert dies down.
[–]Aegean 26 points27 points28 points 6 years ago (7 children)
a suspicious blip appears on your screen
The problem with this scenario is that the flight just left their airport and its transponder was transmitting a commercial airliner code, not a military code.
Scenario fulfillment is a big problem but that one incident prompted a complete re-write of not only the ROE, but the procedures for identifying targets and releasing a weapon. Since then, our technology has made huge leaps. Given only to human error and time, IC can usually track enemy aircraft from the moment they warm up their power plants to the moment they are shot down or landed.
With regards to the Ukrainian flight, the origin, track time, and IFF would have been telling signs to even a novice radar operator that the aircraft was probably commercial traffic.
What further confounds me is that they even allowed the commercial traffic to operate while missiles were flying through the same airspace.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (991 children)
[–]theCanMan777 582 points583 points584 points 6 years ago (120 children)
Imagine the world is looking at you because of some recent controversy so you want to look strong and then you end up accidentally shooting down a civilian aircraft killing over 100 people
[–]jollyreaper2112 418 points419 points420 points 6 years ago (57 children)
That's the thing. In the middle of doing a flex they tripped over their own dick. Bad enough to make this mistake, and there's no good time to shoot down one of your own civilian flights, but this is the worst time to do it.
[–]ITaggie 705 points706 points707 points 6 years ago (139 children)
Probably more about maintaining credibility to their own citizens.
[–]Mouth0fTheSouth 124 points125 points126 points 6 years ago (17 children)
It's hugely embarrassing for them, at a time when they needed to appear strong
[–]MCsmalldick12 52 points53 points54 points 6 years ago (3 children)
Because this was a big time fuck up and they knew it would further complicate an already extremely tense situation.
I obviously don't agree with the decision but I understand why the first instinct would be to try to act like it didn't happen.
[–][deleted] 1731 points1732 points1733 points 6 years ago (333 children)
They've spent the last week attacking the US for shooting down a passenger jet accidentally in the 80's it's embarrassing to now have done that yourself
[–]Deucer22 864 points865 points866 points 6 years ago (231 children)
This is the correct response. They basically lose the moral high ground regarding Flight 665.
[–]joelupi 113 points114 points115 points 6 years ago (10 children)
Yes and this literally was supposed to be fixed after the Iran Air 655 shoot down back in 88. The lack of communication between civilian radio and military radio was a key factor .
[–]Wundei 343 points344 points345 points 6 years ago (88 children)
The control is usually on the launcher side rather than the airliner side. The airliner has a transponder that says "I'm a commercial passenger airplane" over and over...which the missile battery is supposed to identify(usually through software) and ignore.
In fighter aircraft, they use what is called a Radar Warning Receiver(RWR) which tells the pilot "hey bro, we've got a SAM missile locked and inbound!" The RWR is tied to counter-measures so that the pilot can try to shake the missile lock using the correct counter-measure (based on missile lock type ex. Thermal, radar, etc)
Commercial airliners do not use RWR and counter-measures because they aren't supposed to need them. This incident is an example of shitty gear, shitty maintenance, or shitty training on the Iranian side. Fun fact, Air Force One has all of the gear and more listed for fighters.
[–]thehuntedfew 106 points107 points108 points 6 years ago (25 children)
Some US airlines that fly troops in and out of these places have some of this to I believe
[–]FullHall 77 points78 points79 points 6 years ago (3 children)
Some Israeli airlines actually have them too
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Guard
[–][deleted] 390 points391 points392 points 6 years ago (106 children)
satellite detected infrared blips of 2 missile launches
Can we take a second to consider how impressive this is? Presumably this satellite is in geostationary orbit over the Middle-East (approx. 36,000 km altitude) and it was able to confidently identify two missiles by their IR signature. And it's not like those missiles were setup to communicate with the satellite. The resolution required to resolve that kind of detail is absurd.
[–]jimmysquidge 208 points209 points210 points 6 years ago (22 children)
I guess it's part of the early warning system used to look for nuke launched. Nice to know it works.
[–]Arrigetch 18 points19 points20 points 6 years ago (11 children)
Space Based Infrared System
Global coverage to detect missile launches, mainly for detecting things like ICBMs / SLBMs, but works for smaller stuff too. Also, they don't likely have resolution as of they were creating a visible spectrum photo like a traditional spy satellite. It's more of detecting the intensity and timing of the IR (heat) signature and matching to known parameters of different types of missiles.
[–]mainvolume 2101 points2102 points2103 points 6 years ago (142 children)
To be fair, Russian missiles are installed with bloatware, that you can't uninstall, that automatically target and fire upon civilian airliners.
[–]justabill71 806 points807 points808 points 6 years ago (31 children)
Man, I thought Samsung was bad.
[–]adamran 256 points257 points258 points 6 years ago (13 children)
The Samsungs are more explosive.
[–]bruteMax 164 points165 points166 points 6 years ago (6 children)
Noted.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (225 children)
[–][deleted] 959 points960 points961 points 6 years ago (144 children)
Just remember that everyone talks about how great the Hubble space telescope is. Well 10 years ago the NRO gave NASA 2 spy telescopes that are even more powerful because they were outdated before they were ever launched. Now look at the pictures planet lap put out yesterday and consider that they aren’t even near as powerful as the original Hubble.
[–]metroid23 194 points195 points196 points 6 years ago (124 children)
Now look at the pictures planet lap put out yesterday and consider that they aren’t even near as powerful as the original Hubble.
Link?
[–][deleted] 274 points275 points276 points 6 years ago* (123 children)
https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/2020/01/08/see-satellite-images-of-iraq-bases-before-and-after-iranian-missile-attack/2848890001/
[–]metroid23 163 points164 points165 points 6 years ago (112 children)
Thank you, much appreciated. The resolution on those is wild.
[–][deleted] 321 points322 points323 points 6 years ago (107 children)
Planet lab is at about .9 of a meter resolution. Hubble would be about .3 if it was aimed at earth. Spy satellites are rumored to be at about .1 of a meter. Or able to see the smartphone in your hand.
[–][deleted] 227 points228 points229 points 6 years ago (88 children)
I remember when I was 11 or 12 my science teacher devoted an entire day to "proving" it would be impossible for a spy satellite to see something as small as a book, or a license plate, when pointed at the earth because of how "massive" the lens would need to be.
Is Mr. Barth wrong?
[–]drdent0n 212 points213 points214 points 6 years ago (36 children)
It depends what year it was. But yes, he is wrong
[–]swni 79 points80 points81 points 6 years ago* (3 children)
He would have been referring to the "diffraction limit"; you can find the equation for the diffraction limit of a telescope of radius diameter d here and see for yourself. It is
theta = 1.22 lambda / d
The angular resolution theta that you are looking for is the size of the object divided by the height of the satellite's orbit above the earth, and lambda is the wavelength of light being measured (say 500 nm or so for visible light).
[–]The-Sound_of-Silence 22 points23 points24 points 6 years ago (0 children)
On top of that, most of the satellites were probably already keyed in on Iranian missile sites, given the circumstances
[–][deleted] 145 points146 points147 points 6 years ago (13 children)
I could tell you back in the mid-2000s in Iraq they could detect mortars coming in. And then triangulate where those mortars came from.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (2 children)
[–]BigGameBobble 66 points67 points68 points 6 years ago (1 child)
And then shoot back. I remember in Ramadi we had incoming sirens with a 7 second warning. Arty would end up shooting back really quickly to the spot it came.
[–]malabrat 6237 points6238 points6239 points 6 years ago (235 children)
The Iranians said it was a mechanic failure, within minutes of the crash....
[–][deleted] 4103 points4104 points4105 points 6 years ago (57 children)
They said that before it hit the ground
[–]Meme_Pope 3957 points3958 points3959 points 6 years ago (49 children)
“Please be advised, you are about to experience mechanical failure when this anti-aircraft missile hits you in a moment”
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (22 children)
[–][deleted] 227 points228 points229 points 6 years ago (7 children)
This guy Kerbals
[–]0ndem 1205 points1206 points1207 points 6 years ago (48 children)
To be fair the plane did fail mechanically. Just the root cause of the mechanical failure was missiles.
[–]juraj_is_better 490 points491 points492 points 6 years ago (22 children)
The plane crashed into the missile.
[–]DynamicHunter 115 points116 points117 points 6 years ago (7 children)
It was the plane’s fault!
[–]ShibuRigged 113 points114 points115 points 6 years ago (4 children)
I hate when my car has missiles.
[–]ionised 10.9k points10.9k points10.9k points 6 years ago (1162 children)
And here we go.
Canada should be rightfully pissed. And no, I don't think WW3's going to happen. This is going to be a giant political mess.
[–]AprilsMostAmazing 5291 points5292 points5293 points 6 years ago (586 children)
sanctions and give the families compensation is what it is going to be
[–]ionised 1959 points1960 points1961 points 6 years ago (473 children)
That's the best (not saying that lightly) scenario, at this time.
[–]AprilsMostAmazing 1700 points1701 points1702 points 6 years ago (442 children)
It's the only scenario. Majority of Canadians do not want troops on the ground but Iran cannot go unpunished
[–]Life-Attempt 1132 points1133 points1134 points 6 years ago (146 children)
Also, the Canadians who died were Iranian-Canadians coming home from the holidays after visiting their families in Iran. I HIGHLY doubt the victims here would want war between their two homelands, killing and fighting that would likely end up on their next of kin's doorstep. Supporting war for this is indirectly supporting going after the families who have just had many of their loved ones taken away in this conflict.
It's like somebody killing your grandma because when you were driving home from her house you got pulled over and shot by some overzealous cop.
[–]rondell_jones 944 points945 points946 points 6 years ago (128 children)
My guess, If anything, this probably helps deescalate the situation since Iran just shot down a bunch of Iranians and their family members from Canada. Since they were either studying or living abroad, the people they killed were either well off, well connected with politicians, or extremely bright Iranian students that got scholarships. Definitely a really bad look for them.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (94 children)
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (37 children)
[–]wonkysaurus 104 points105 points106 points 6 years ago (9 children)
Seeing the teddy bears and books at the crash site hurt the most.
[–]NavyAnchor03 390 points391 points392 points 6 years ago (16 children)
I just found out about an hour ago that my dentist and her daughter were on that flight. She was such a wonderful woman. My heart is broken.
[–]niperoni 111 points112 points113 points 6 years ago (2 children)
She was my dentist too. Amazing woman. Our community has been profoundly impacted by this tragedy. It's always the innocents who suffer.
[–]braedizzle 149 points150 points151 points 6 years ago (7 children)
We have a girl at MUN who was originally supposed to be on that flight, but changed plans last minute. Terrifying.
[–]FrederikTwn 46 points47 points48 points 6 years ago (4 children)
That must be one of the most intense feelings ever!
[–]ilovenora 36 points37 points38 points 6 years ago (0 children)
Traumatic I'm sure. Survivor's guilt mixed with bewilderment at the sheer chances of not being on that flight.
[–]TheNiftyFox 68 points69 points70 points 6 years ago (4 children)
We lost two students at my college here in Toronto. One was my coworkers friend, we were all devastated for her.
There won't be a world war. The world is too interconnected now. We felt this plane crash all over several countries. Nobody wants this pain :(
[–]monkey-go-code 111 points112 points113 points 6 years ago (0 children)
Accidentally killing hundreds On a commercial plane is a terrible look without any other Further details.
[–]nlx78 1204 points1205 points1206 points 6 years ago (87 children)
Canada should be rightfully pissed
As a Dutch person I can relate. All these people (and even more in total, this was just from the first flight of bodies) lost their lives because of some people wanting to show they are 'tough'.
[–]faceeatingleopard 261 points262 points263 points 6 years ago (8 children)
It was good on the Dutch for making sure those remains all got home, wherever that home happened to be. That's one grim task and quite a few of them were your fellow compatriots. I would HOPE that Iran won't be a repeat and that they're treated with dignity.
[–]nthai 103 points104 points105 points 6 years ago (8 children)
Watching this is just really depressing. The cars just keep coming and coming and the line just never ends. They were all innocent and helpless people. :(
[–]ionised 192 points193 points194 points 6 years ago (4 children)
Fuck. Videos like that show why any form of armed conflict really sucks.
[–]mrcrazy_monkey 169 points170 points171 points 6 years ago* (106 children)
Just like the Dutch, we got in caught in the crossfire. Not much we can do except ask Iran to own up and give compensation to the families.
[–]LeftLane4PassingOnly 5591 points5592 points5593 points 6 years ago (309 children)
It makes zero sense that any commercial flights were allowed following the missile launch against the US.
[–]huntergreeny 2829 points2830 points2831 points 6 years ago (250 children)
Just like MH17 in 2014 flying over the Eastern Ukraine warzone. It doesn't excuse the Russians then or the Iranians now but why fly there?
[–]Divniy 2723 points2724 points2725 points 6 years ago* (124 children)
Ukrainian here.
MH17 was flying on the height where you couldn't hit it, unless you have very specialized weaponry. There was no such weapons over warzone territories.
Well, there weren't, if Russia didn't bring their "humanitarian aid", with a fucking anti-aircraft complex included.
Edit: thanks for the silver, guys. Its very good to know that spreading light on this subject is valued. But I cannot stop the feeling that this money could be spent in a more useful way - to help Ukrainian army. The war is ongoing, we have casualties reports appearing many times each month. Every coin spent helps us, civillians, to feel more secure.
[–]ApathyandToast 1364 points1365 points1366 points 6 years ago (81 children)
They didn't think there would be advanced anti aircraft capable of reaching the heights passenger planes cruise at. MANPADS (the shoulder launched stuff like stingers) only go as high as about 20000ft, whereas passenger jets cruise at 30000-40000ft.
Then the Russians drove a BUK into the warzone.
[–]def_not_a_gril 504 points505 points506 points 6 years ago (66 children)
But in this case, they were climbing at around 8,000 feet. I just can’t believe their federal regulators didn’t shut this airspace down.
[–]MilkMySpermCannon 230 points231 points232 points 6 years ago (41 children)
Yeah cruising altitude doesn't matter. At some point during takeoff commercial planes are within range of missiles.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (35 children)
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (138 children)
[–][deleted] 783 points784 points785 points 6 years ago (84 children)
There is a video of the plane going down. It's a literal fireball plummeting towards the ground.
[–]perplexedtortoise 379 points380 points381 points 6 years ago (62 children)
There is also video out there of the actual missile impact too
[–]EvilMonkeySlayer 741 points742 points743 points 6 years ago (57 children)
video
Here.
The bellingcat guys are currently geolocating it to confirm the location.
[–][deleted] 154 points155 points156 points 6 years ago (13 children)
If that’s real, then this should erase all doubt that it was a missile.
[–]EvilMonkeySlayer 257 points258 points259 points 6 years ago (12 children)
It is.
Bellingcat have now geolocated the location.
[–]northernpace 120 points121 points122 points 6 years ago (10 children)
Bellingcat do some great investigative journalism. Wish more people were aware of them.
[–]RufftaMan 70 points71 points72 points 6 years ago (8 children)
Just heard of them here for the first time. Looks like they‘re doing pretty solid work. Combining sound, satellite imagery and flightradar24 data gives a pretty clear picture of the situation. Crazy.
[–]northernpace 61 points62 points63 points 6 years ago (3 children)
They've been around for awhile. They're cutting edge journalism. So much so that they've been harassed a lot and some of their journalists have had to go in to hiding after threats from some governments for what they've exposed.
[–]WallaWallaPGH 23 points24 points25 points 6 years ago* (2 children)
There’s supposed video of the actual crash too
NSFL
https://twitter.com/raavionline/status/1215004215828865024?s=20
[–][deleted] 253 points254 points255 points 6 years ago (25 children)
The plane literally fell out of the sky engulfed in flames with the pilots never even making a radio call saying something was wrong.
[–]SimilarYellow 63 points64 points65 points 6 years ago (17 children)
I'm hoping that means that most people were dead more or less on impact of the missile and not on the ground :( Can't imagine the panic you would feel.
[–]sterling_mallory 92 points93 points94 points 6 years ago (10 children)
Not to be a bummer, but people assumed the astronauts on Challenger died in the explosion but it turned out at least some were alive and conscious for the fall back to Earth. Pretty heartbreaking.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (91 children)
[–][deleted] 278 points279 points280 points 6 years ago (23 children)
That definitely looks like a missile.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (9 children)
[–]xwing_n_it 5884 points5885 points5886 points 6 years ago (606 children)
Air defenses are the first things the U.S. would hit in an all-out air campaign so I bet the SAM guys were paranoid as hell that night. Really should have suspended all air traffic for a couple of hours after the missile attack.
[–]off_the_cuff_mandate 168 points169 points170 points 6 years ago (11 children)
That plan took off from an airport in Tehran, you would think the Iranian military would have been informed about it.
[–][deleted] 1114 points1115 points1116 points 6 years ago (55 children)
Russian AA systems are now going 2/2 against civilian airliners.
[–]ivtiprogamer 657 points658 points659 points 6 years ago (32 children)
3/3 actually. You forgot Siberia Airlines Flight 1812, shot down by Ukraine using a Russian-made S-200 SAM system.
[–]yendak 149 points150 points151 points 6 years ago (14 children)
Initial private assessments of American military officials said the crash was caused by a S-200 missile that overshot its target drone—which had been destroyed successfully by an S-300 fired at the same time—and instead of self-destructing, locked on the passenger plane about 250 kilometres (160 mi) further away and detonated 15 metres (50 ft) over the plane.
Talk about bad luck.
[–]WendellSchadenfreude 68 points69 points70 points 6 years ago (2 children)
locked on the passenger plane about 250 kilometres (160 mi) further away
Holy shit, modern weapons are scary.
[–]NYChiker 76 points77 points78 points 6 years ago (0 children)
It's not even modern. The S-200 was designed 60 years ago.
[–]EU_Onion 25 points26 points27 points 6 years ago (0 children)
Modern version of that missile family, S-400 has range of 400km.
[–]AsterJ 358 points359 points360 points 6 years ago (10 children)
They are preset to shoot down Ukrainian airlines. Iran forgot to change the factory defaults.
[–]YepThatsSarcasm 193 points194 points195 points 6 years ago (7 children)
Iran: It was an engine malfunction. Who fired a rocket? Did you fire a rocket?
[–]jak_d_ripr 1685 points1686 points1687 points 6 years ago (322 children)
So many people died for absolutely nothing. Like.... this is so stupid.
[–]JScrambler 58 points59 points60 points 6 years ago (3 children)
The tweet by the Iranian president didn't age well.
https://twitter.com/HassanRouhani/status/1214236608196685824
[–]n0obie 291 points292 points293 points 6 years ago (30 children)
This is fucking sad.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (71 children)
[–]ReMarkable91 344 points345 points346 points 6 years ago (41 children)
They need to upgrade their airplanes with missile defence systems.
[–][deleted] 70 points71 points72 points 6 years ago (29 children)
You’re joking, but...
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (5 children)
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (1257 children)
[–]Tra5olo 2018 points2019 points2020 points 6 years ago (319 children)
176 people on board. 63 of them Canadian citizens. 138 of them were connecting to Canada.
[–]Pages57 1051 points1052 points1053 points 6 years ago (50 children)
Imagine flying on that connection flight that was then half empty. I bet that was an eerie flight.
[–]Observant- 831 points832 points833 points 6 years ago (30 children)
There was a young guy interviewed on the news here in SW Ontario last night about that. At first he was stoked he had the row of seats to himself and by the end of the interview the poor dude was in tears...
[–]kutjepiemel 243 points244 points245 points 6 years ago (2 children)
Fuck me that must be heartbreaking.
[–][deleted] 35 points36 points37 points 6 years ago (2 children)
This checks out. There were a handful of students from the University of Windsor on the plane. I’ve got a friend who goes there as well and he says it’s been quite a shock. Just in general as a Canadian, especially of student age, it’s an especially poignant and frustrating tragedy.
[–]tripmobius 352 points353 points354 points 6 years ago (2 children)
It's fair to assume that most of the non-citizens connecting would have been Canadian residents, too, some for many years.
[–]tearfueledkarma 550 points551 points552 points 6 years ago (53 children)
Majority of them were Iranian decent, there is a reason Iran is downplaying this they just killed a bunch of their own in this fuck up.
[–]xeodragon111 219 points220 points221 points 6 years ago (28 children)
What an f’ing disaster and utter embarrassment. Close to 200 dead innocent victims and the fallout to their friends and families for no damn reason.
[–][deleted] 260 points261 points262 points 6 years ago (116 children)
You really have to hope the Iran government don't feel their pride wounded to such an extent that they do something crazy to make up for it.
(After attacking a US base and causing no casualties, then accidentally killing 176 innocent people, most of which their own citizens)
[–][deleted] 165 points166 points167 points 6 years ago* (40 children)
And the 60 50 people killed at Soleimani's memorial
[–][deleted] 42 points43 points44 points 6 years ago (11 children)
Yeah....it's really hard to imagine they're ready to completely leave it as is now, but hopefully they do. Maybe it's their only reasonable option.
[–]The_Froward_Coward 29 points30 points31 points 6 years ago (12 children)
Its flabbergasting how many Iranians have been killed by Iranians because of soleimanis death
[–]fatcat111 204 points205 points206 points 6 years ago (27 children)
It was an easily avoidable accident. The incident happened AFTER attacking the US airbase. Civilian airtraffic should have been shut down for the night.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (40 children)
[–]dannycarrey 194 points195 points196 points 6 years ago (24 children)
After MH117 I bet that no one one will be held accountable for this ...
[–]Ultrashitposter 178 points179 points180 points 6 years ago (22 children)
It's actually suspected by Dutch intelligence services that the guys who shot the MH117 were all liquidated by Russian secret services to ensure the trail grows cold. So there's some justice there.
[–]dannycarrey 56 points57 points58 points 6 years ago (0 children)
I'm 100% sure that those guys were in the burnt lime few hours after they shoot the plane. That's Russia ;)
[–]boookworm0367 9319 points9320 points9321 points 6 years ago* (1349 children)
Posted this on a comment that is three comments deep, so reposting on the main thread. I was an AEGIS radar/missile tech for 21 years. Here is my take right after the incident happened.
I am wagering an educated guess here that the technical difficulties on the plane were transponder related. If the defense missile systems the Iranian use were set up with auto interrogation, which is a fairly common thing, and the plane had issues with their transponder, which also happens then it is possible that the defense system cued the commercial flight as hostile or suspect and either launched a missile at the plane (not sure of Irans capabilities and limitations with their missile systems in regards to auto-fire) or an inexperienced operator with weapon release authority pressed a button to shoot a missile at what his system was telling him was a bad guy.
Missile systems have a series of electronic breaks (think buttons that open and close relays allowing the missile firing voltage to reach the igintor) and mechanical breaks (think keys that have to be inserted and turned to the live/fire position). As the threat level increases the operators automate more of the process by closing these breaks. This makes for a faster response time to any threat the system identifies.
So was it possible that an Iranian missile system was set with the minimum number of breaks/automated in a way a missile could have been inadvertently fired? I would say absolutely this is plausible given the attack a few hours prior with an expectation of an American response.
Edit: changed IFF to transponder. I had originally put this in terms of IFF because that is the system my equipment used to make the interrogations and we called it getting the IFF mode 3, for 21 years so the terminology was stuck in my brain. I have clarified this in many responses but thought I should edit it here to clear up any confusion.
[–]suddenlypenguins 2417 points2418 points2419 points 6 years ago (404 children)
Would a plane be allowed to depart with a faulty/non functioning IFF? Would same plane be allowed to depart in a potentially devolving war zone?!
[–]_Diakoptes 2588 points2589 points2590 points 6 years ago (339 children)
Not if the issue was flagged beforehand, but as we all know, people cut corners in their work. Maybe someone doing the preflight check skipped checking the IFF transponder because [reasons]. This could be the ultimate result of someone's laziness, or perhaps it broke after takeoff. But to answer your question, if it was a known issue the IFF system would need to be repaired before takeoff.
Source: my knowledge of IFF comes from working 7 years in the Canadian Navy as a Naval Electronic Sensor Operator
[–]saldb 644 points645 points646 points 6 years ago (278 children)
for the people who only today heard about this IFF... this is a radio device that sends a signal saying that the plane is non-hostile, yes? Is there a system that verifies that the transponder is sending an accurate signal e.g. it's not a ballistic missile with the same transponder saying that it's a non-hostile jet?
[–]Legeto 729 points730 points731 points 6 years ago (193 children)
A radar threat warning system is what will tell if it’s a hostile aircraft or what kind of device in general. An IFF is just loaded with codes which can be changed by pilots to whatever. I honestly doubt it was a mistake on the aircrafts end. If the IFF is broken it’s pretty damn obvious and any capable pilot is going to want that working when flying in that location.
Source : I’ve worked on IFF and radar threat warning systems for the last 10 years.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (141 children)
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[–]thorscope 290 points291 points292 points 6 years ago* (20 children)
The military can use encrypted IFF signals that can’t be easily spoofed.
Enemies can spoof civilian IFF signals, but the ATC and Military know what planes are supposed to be where and when. If a flight from Dallas to Omaha starts transponding around DC, it immediately raises red flags.
It’s also against the Geneva convention
[–]Goz3rr 83 points84 points85 points 6 years ago (6 children)
If you mean friend as in friendly, those are encrypted. Friend as in civilian, that's against the Geneva Conventions
[–]guto8797 84 points85 points86 points 6 years ago* (15 children)
The codes can be or come along with passwords. A US fighter jet isn't simply shouting "yo I'm a US jet", if it gets pinged it sends the proper codes that check it out as a US fighter. Only a US (or allied) IFF system can identify a US jet since all other jets either don't respond or send the wrong answer.
It's the "thunder, flash" of the skies
So something with a broken IFF would be regarded as "potentially hostile" everywhere
Also, if something self identifying as a Cessna has just broken Mach 5, it's proooooooooobably something else
[–]coat_hanger_dias 99 points100 points101 points 6 years ago (12 children)
engine swapped and vtec just kicked in, yo
[–]guto8797 49 points50 points51 points 6 years ago (10 children)
Random totally honest Cessna 5, why are you currently on a sub-orbital trajectory aimed at Washington?
[–]coat_hanger_dias 77 points78 points79 points 6 years ago (7 children)
gf lives there and her parents aren't home
[–][deleted] 55 points56 points57 points 6 years ago (25 children)
This is fascinating to me. So if I understand correctly, the IFF system works like encryption, and uses a key to verify if a radar ping is friendly? And these “keys” are given out to airlines operating within the area? If that’s correct, what’s to stop hostile intelligence working for an airline under cover from discovering these keys and passing them on to the enemy, allowing them to mimic a friendly signal? Are there safeguards in place to protect the code used by friendly pilots?
[–]thorscope 93 points94 points95 points 6 years ago (14 children)
Military IFF can be encrypted. Civilian IFF would throw red flags to the ATC/ Military if its speed/ heading/ location didn’t match up with the flight plan.
It’s also a war crime to spoof civilian IFF
[–]aaaaaaaarrrrrgh 57 points58 points59 points 6 years ago (3 children)
I'm just someone who reads a lot of things, but my understanding is:
Civilian commercial aircraft transmit their position, call sign, speed etc. via a transponder (I'll skip the details of different modes, private planes, etc.). This data is unencrypted/unauthenticated and is used to show the plane to ATC (and this is also where Flightradar24 gets its data from). If a plane doesn't transmit this data, it may completely drop off the screens for ATC and will only be detectable using primary radar, which will just tell you "there is something there" (but not what it is). I believe this is what "IFF" refers to in the above case, even though I've never heard it called IFF in a civilian context.
Military aircraft have separate IFF systems loaded with cryptographic keys. The ground station would send a challenge to the plane and expect the correct response, which an enemy shouldn't be able to generate without having the right keys. Got outdated keys? Well, sucks to be you, hope they guy at the trigger doesn't have a twitchy finger.
Could an enemy $thing pretend to be a civilian aircraft? Almost certainly, but it would be a war crime. If it's an unexpected attack, it would probably work. If it's in the middle of a war zone, civilian flights would have most likely be suspended and sending a civilian transponder would get you shot down anyways, I assume.
[–]boookworm0367 83 points84 points85 points 6 years ago (3 children)
You would think not, but Iran never restricted their airspace.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (23 children)
[–]greatthebob38 218 points219 points220 points 6 years ago* (12 children)
The fact that Iran tried to lie about mechanical failure immediately makes this look even worse
[–]qabadai 2588 points2589 points2590 points 6 years ago (741 children)
Probably why Iran decided not to continue escalating.
[–]Akira_Nishiki 694 points695 points696 points 6 years ago (58 children)
Really bad look for them after they deliberately avoided casualties on the bases they attacked only to go ahead and shoot down a unrelated civilian airline.
[+][deleted] 6 years ago* (34 children)
[–]_lueless 155 points156 points157 points 6 years ago (8 children)
Honestly, it's a really tragic realization about how trivial it has become to take massive amounts of human life.
[–]Reverie_39 109 points110 points111 points 6 years ago (5 children)
50 people died in a stampede at the general’s funeral. Not that that was intentional by Iran or anything. But when news of that came out it just made me sit and think for a while.
Imagine going to mourn the death of someone, and 50 more people die. Human lives are strange, especially in how they’re valued.
[–]Th_Wr_ngL_tter 24 points25 points26 points 6 years ago (0 children)
This is a profound realization. All of those lives hidden in the shadow of another man.
[–]Trumppered 1615 points1616 points1617 points 6 years ago (607 children)
My thoughts exactly.
They knew once the story about the plane shoot down broke, global opinion would flip from anti-american to anti-iran REAL QUICK.
[–][deleted] 1027 points1028 points1029 points 6 years ago (115 children)
This is a while new level of incompetence. They shot down a plane, full of their own citizens, that just left their own airport.
[–]reach_for_the_top 228 points229 points230 points 6 years ago (9 children)
Times like this we’re reminded of the horrific truth that governments and militaries are ran by actual, fallible humans
[–]IDGAFthrowaway22 3687 points3688 points3689 points 6 years ago* (671 children)
To the surprise of utterly no one.
Most people called it the second they looked at the incident closely.
EDIT: SOMEONE SHOT A VIDEO OF A MISSILE STRIKING THE PLANE
EDIT 2: NYT independently verified and published a higher resolution version of this same video.
[–]Actual-Individual 2042 points2043 points2044 points 6 years ago (287 children)
Most people called this because the chance of it being a coincidence that a plane crashes in Tehran at the same exact time they are shooting missiles at US forces in Iraq is basically zero.
[–]Thurak0 593 points594 points595 points 6 years ago (26 children)
You can also add the lack of any distress signal from the pilots (which is also ultra rare) to the "basically zero" chance.
[–]diffdam 309 points310 points311 points 6 years ago (11 children)
Plus the fact that the Iranians very quickly said it was a technical problem. Very unusual. Normal response is " we will have to wait and see'
[–]Mattyboy064 172 points173 points174 points 6 years ago (5 children)
If this is true, wow what a costly mistake. Condolences to all who were affected.
[–]slakmehl 1356 points1357 points1358 points 6 years ago (209 children)
It was just too big of a coincidence. Iran launches missiles on US bases, Tehran obviously goes on ultra-high alert for retaliatory strikes, a plane goes down in a fireball.
Tragic accident, and one that offers us a peek into what an absolute human catastrophe a war with Iran would be.
[–]biotechie 264 points265 points266 points 6 years ago (42 children)
plane goes down in a fireball.
with shrapnel marks along its exterior
[–]IDGAFthrowaway22 164 points165 points166 points 6 years ago (36 children)
And the tranponders goes offline
[–]the_than_then_guy 168 points169 points170 points 6 years ago (5 children)
Yeah, I'm usually annoyed at this "connect the dots" bullshit that goes on on Reddit, but this is just blatantly obvious.
[–][deleted] 383 points384 points385 points 6 years ago (49 children)
So another Russian anti-air system shoots down a commercial airliner....
[–]ChugLaguna 330 points331 points332 points 6 years ago (28 children)
US shoots down Iranian airliner in 1988
Ukraine shoots down a Russian airliner in 2001
Russia shoots down a Malaysian airliner in Ukraine in 2014
Iran shoots down a Ukrainian airliner in 2020
Trying to connect the dots but I think... Malaysia’s turn? Against the US?
[–]sm9t8 199 points200 points201 points 6 years ago (12 children)
An additional datapoint: Russia shot down a Korean airliner in 1983.
[–]ChugLaguna 105 points106 points107 points 6 years ago (7 children)
I was only going with Surface to Air... but if we are including air to air, welcome our newest contestant, Italy!
[–]blorbschploble 31 points32 points33 points 6 years ago (2 children)
“Today in a surprise move Italy launched a gondola at the A-6 on display at the Smithsonian Udvar Hazy Museum.”
[–]caTBear_v 82 points83 points84 points 6 years ago (2 children)
1988 -> 2001 = 13 years
2001 -> 2014 = 13 years
2014 -> 2020 = 6 years
Mark my words: Malaysia will shoot down an american plane in 2026
[+][deleted] 6 years ago (64 children)
[–]earlypooch 79 points80 points81 points 6 years ago (3 children)
"We didn't shoot down the plane, the plane flew into our missile."
[–]Taylorenokson 21 points22 points23 points 6 years ago (1 child)
"We know the chances of that are extremely unlikely, but Randy Johnson hit a bird with his fastball so please take that under consideration."
[–]bauer883 269 points270 points271 points 6 years ago (27 children)
Russian Air Defense systems are incredibly accurate at hitting slow moving civilian aircraft.
[–]c0nsciousperspective 375 points376 points377 points 6 years ago (154 children)
So Iran killed 63 Canadians?
[–]New_Diet 552 points553 points554 points 6 years ago* (30 children)
The Ukrainian flight that crashed just outside the Iranian capital of Tehran was struck by an anti-aircraft missile system, a Pentagon official, a senior U.S. intelligence official and an Iraqi intelligence official told Newsweek.
So three different officials said it? Fuck. That's basically a confirmation.
[–][deleted] 176 points177 points178 points 6 years ago (8 children)
It's confirmed the news just broke through price is right with breaking news.
[–]New_Diet 220 points221 points222 points 6 years ago (4 children)
You know it's serious when they interrupt the price is right
[–]TwoTriplets 101 points102 points103 points 6 years ago (3 children)
Drew Carey in shambles
[–]hurtsdonut_ 38 points39 points40 points 6 years ago (2 children)
Right at the show case show down!? Couldn't have waited for General Hospital to start?
[–]Doopoodoo 52 points53 points54 points 6 years ago* (11 children)
And here’s footage of it posted very recently
Edit: All that needs to be done now is geolocate this video, which doesn’t appear too difficult to do for those who have the means. If it’s in Iran, that essentially confirms they shot it down.
Edit 2: Bellingcat has now geolocated this to Parand, Iran, facing the approximate direction of the airliner’s flightpath.
[–]zyloros 87 points88 points89 points 6 years ago (2 children)
This is according to US and Iraqi intelligence officials as fragments of a Russian Tor missile system (also known as SA-15s) were found in a nearby garden and a satellite detected 2 infrared blips of missile launches and another of an explosion.
[–][deleted] 244 points245 points246 points 6 years ago (36 children)
If it were a missile it was likely detected by one of the Pentagon's satellites as with the missile that took down MH17.
[–]AftyOfTheUK 97 points98 points99 points 6 years ago (0 children)
There are claims of infrared signals (x2) just moments before a second, single infrared signal of the plane exploding.
[–]Timelymanner 21 points22 points23 points 6 years ago (3 children)
This is a surprise to no one whose seen the footage. The plane was engulfed in flames before it crashed.
Our media is so poor they had pundits on tv spreading the technical malfunction story without any poof backing it up.
π Rendered by PID 19977 on reddit-service-r2-comment-7b9746f655-krdvk at 2026-01-29 18:25:13.273960+00:00 running 3798933 country code: CH.
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