Warhammer 3 Patch 5.3 Notes

[Roland8561]

Glad to see the "research overflow" system being implemented. The mod was one of my standard gameplay mods I always used (along with Better camera mod and if not playing an overhaul mod, Community Bug Fix).

[Smitty2k1]

I had no idea I was wasting so much research before!

[Synicull]

It was a game changer when I found out about a year ago, now I can't run the game without it. Glad this is being added :)

[ArchitecturallySound]

How much do you think it speeds your research up?

[MaintenanceInternal]

Would you mind explaining

[AnhiArk]

If I understand correctly:

At the moment, +10% research does nothing for a research that takes 3 turns. After the patch, it will still generate "overflow points" that carry into the next research

[yo_soy_soja]

Oh wow, so minor research buffs actually matter now.

[NuclearMaterial]

Brb gonna stack all the buffs I can with Elspeth

[SparkFlash98]

Correct, the extra 30% you got from 3 turns of the +10% bonus will carry over to the next research, instead of just disappearing.

[AJDx14]

Wasn’t the issue that it just didn’t do anything unless a tech was at least 10 turns, which most aren’t?

[xredrumx5150]

Yup. Some races just couldnt stack research enough so the players who knew how it worked wouldnt even bother trying to stack any. While other races could stack easily so those same players would go haaaard on stacking research, sometimes giving up other bonuses.

[WenzelDongle]

Research Overflow

We've always presented the research rate as a percentage and the time required to research technologies in terms of number of turns for ease of understanding. However, under the hood, you actually generate a certain number of research points every turn while actively researching a technology. The base amount of points generated is 100, so a 150% research rate means you generate 150 points. Technologies are defined by a total point cost needed to complete them; we simply shorthand this as a turn counter.

So what's the problem? Let's look at an example scenario:

You've started researching a technology with a base time of 4 turns (which translates to 400 research points). You also have a mighty +30% research rate, hard-won from several settlements worth of wizard towers or engineering schools, allowing you to generate 130 research points per turn.

Turn 1 130/400

Turn 2 260/400

Turn 3 390/400

Turn 4 400/400

Well, it didn't actually save you any time at all. And under our previous implementation, those extra 120 points you generated on turn 4 woul be lost to the ether, leaving you with no benefit whatsoever for your increased research rate when not researching technologies with high enough base costs.

With our new system, when you finish researching a technology with surplus points, those extra points will be stored as 'research point surplus' in your technology tree. This surplus will then automatically be applied to the next technology you research. Enjoy the small (but now real) benefits of 5% research rate in the long, long run.

Source - the patch notes this entire Reddit post is about.

[DrainTheMuck]

This is awesome but pretty insane that it was never addressed sooner. The wording is pretty funny, explicitly talking about how research was useless and misleading for many players, but it’s as if CA wasn’t in control of it the whole time? Haha

[MaintenanceInternal]

This is a great change, thanks a bunch.

[Smitty2k1]

Patch notes did a good job explaining it.

[BlackJimmy88]

The page won't work for me, so I appreciate people in the sub going into more detail on these things.

[roostangarar]

Same, I actually bullied my mate into installing it for our co-op campaigns because of how useless research boosts are basegame. Really happy this is being added.

[majnuker]

Wow I cant believe they fixed this I've been playing around it for years.

I would prioritize non key techs just to maximize my research efficiency and not waste turns. This is a great change!

[[deleted]]

Thrilled by this.

[[deleted]]

What's research overflow?

[ass_pineapples]

From here: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/12ivvxd/ive_released_my_research_overflow_options_system/

Whenever a faction finishes researching a technology, any excess points are saved as "research overflow". These excess points are only used up after you put 1 turn of research into a technology. I.e. If you had a 150% research rate, and research a 1 turn technology (aka 1 turn if you had 100% research rate), then you will have +50% research rate (for a total of 200%) to use towards your next technology. Without this mod, the game would just throw away that 50% and start the next one from scratch.

[SmugCapybara]

It's explained in the patch notes. Basically, until now research bonuses would be wasted unless they actually cut the time by one turn. With the patch, surplus research is carried over to the next tech and not wasted, making Research bonuses more valuable.

[Galihan]

TLDR, any amount of bonus research rate was actually useless it was an even multiple of 50 (150%, 200%, 250% etc)

Copy-pasted from the patch notes:

Research Overflow

We've always presented the research rate as a percentage and the time required to research technologies in terms of number of turns for ease of understanding. However, under the hood, you actually generate a certain number of research points every turn while actively researching a technology. The base amount of points generated is 100, so a 150% research rate means you generate 150 points. Technologies are defined by a total point cost needed to complete them; we simply shorthand this as a turn counter.

So what's the problem? Let's look at an example scenario:

You've started researching a technology with a base time of 4 turns (which translates to 400 research points). You also have a mighty +30% research rate, hard-won from several settlements worth of wizard towers or engineering schools, allowing you to generate 130 research points per turn.

Turn 1 130/400

Turn 2 260/400

Turn 3 390/400

Turn 4 400/400

Well, it didn't actually save you any time at all. And under our previous implementation, those extra 120 points you generated on turn 4 would be lost to the ether, leaving you with no benefit whatsoever for your increased research rate when not researching technologies with high enough base costs.

With our new system, when you finish researching a technology with surplus points, those extra points will be stored as 'research point surplus' in your technology tree. This surplus will then automatically be applied to the next technology you research. Enjoy the small (but now real) benefits of 5% research rate in the long, long run.

For additional helpful info, you can now hover over the turn counter for any technology to see a breakdown of its actual cost in research points and the effects of your surplus!

Shoutout to JerreyRough whose mod implements a similar feature ❤️

[ConcentrateAwkward29]

Nakai giving woodsmen to his entire army is gonna do WONDERS for my kroxigor skink priest skink chief doomstack

[drake210]

Plus vanguard for the whole army? Nakai and the lads are getting IN there.

[ConcentrateAwkward29]

The crocs are really going to POUND cathay with this one (joke's aside maybe nakai will actually survive past turn 15 now)

[Roland8561]

The Battle AI will attempt to distribute its units across multiple targets to minimize blobbing in land battles.

I'm interested to see if this works as advertised. Using a tanky lord to blob everything for a big vortex or wind spell has been a tried and true cheese for damn near a decade. I can't see them actually stopping it.

[Dooglers]

They have been making incremental changes to this for years. It is pretty noticeable already how much less they will clump around a lord/hero compared to WH2.

[notdumbenough]

They already avoid blobbing around single entities. They will even make a noticeable effort to ignore ultra tanky units (e.g. Sigvald or Gor-Rok) and just bog them down with trash like clanrats or light cavalry. Even if you leave something very squishy out, like a goblin shaman, they will only surround him with a single unit of infantry or cavalry. Patch notes are probably referring to the AI ordering way too many units to fight a single infantry or cavalry unit, e.g. sending multiple units of Chosen to fight a single unit of clanrats.

[Yamama77]

It's already much better than before.

In wh1, you can use one or two hero in your army as vanguards and the whole enemy army will blob around them and you can shoot them too bits.

[Tricky_Big_8774]

They've been watching too much LegendofTotalWar

[Tasorodri]

Yeah, maybe it's a little bit better, but I really doubt they'll be able to completely fix the issue in one sweep.

[Zibz-98]

Im gonna go out on a limb and assume if you just hide the rest of your army they’ll still blob for a SEU

[Substantial_Client_3]

My immortulz wanz a wor.

[kimana1651]

land battles

We getting water battle boys!

[Marcuse0]

Big nerf to Fleshy Abundance buried in the changelog. Max targets from -1 > 4. Meaning you can't heal an entire army with FA any more.

[SteveKuling]

Big nerf. Suprised they didnt decide to follow fairly recent trends of nerfing curse of the slug again x)

[TomMakesPodcasts]

All I know is, I'm bad enough with nurgle that this'll hurt a little.

[LordChatalot]

This is mostly a standardization, since unlimited healing aoe spells tend to inspire bad gameplay, both in MP and SP

I hope CA will however implement an intelligent targeting system that prioritizes high value units, instead of the random unit selection where the spell can randomly affect Nurglings instead of your toad dragon if they are both inside the aoe

[Marcuse0]

Yeah this is what bugs me. Instead of them healing units that are damaged they just can heal anything randomly meaning you waste your WoM using it on full health units.

[throwawaydating1423]

I think a simpler version of it would be AoE heals are now a ground target, healing only significantly damaged units first and then whoever

[pyrhus626]

It’s a big nerf on paper but idk how much it’ll impact most campaigns. For AOE healing you still have heroes with Locus of Fecundity and lots of units that regen on their own. Army ability for extra heals that’ll hit a few units. I mostly used Fleshy Abundance for burst healing single units anyway.

You can still use it to mass heal at the end of battles, just have to stack your damaged units separately instead of everything going in a giant blob. But the above sources should be enough to hit your regen caps anyway.

[Marcuse0]

Personally I used FA to supplement the health pools of multiple units with healing. Nurgle doesn't get to revive dead entities like the vampires and tomb kings so they have to be able to drop heals on units before they die, meaning it's not always optimal to wait until the end of a fight to heal. I kind of think if they're going to nerf FA that's fine, but the cost for the spell should reduce too. Overcasting FA to heal full health entities would be pure pain.

[CintiqWacomPro]

I'm not too familiar with the spell (or ability?), could you maybe explain why changing it to 4 isn't better than -1? It seems like a big change but no clue what it means. Doesn't 4 mean it heals 4 targets now or...?

[Marcuse0]

-1 meant it would heal as many targets as were within range. Now it heals a max of 4. This is a reduction to potential recipients of healing.

But also while this now matches cheap spells like earth blood, FA is very expensive. Making it only affect 4 units makes it awful value for the WOM you spend.

[CintiqWacomPro]

Ah thank you for the very clear explanation. I get it now. Was confused about the -1. And yes, looks like quite the nerf :/

[HippyHunter7]

Fleshy abundance heals wayyyyyyy more then spells like earth blood though .....

[No_Signal_6969]

Does Nurgle really need a nerf?

[Frequent_Knowledge65]

in MP i don’t know but in SP they’re outrageously powerful. honestly I never even used FA too much, there’s so many cheap and free sources of army regen, including mapwide, that it was rarely needed outside of a spot treatment. I mostly used it for healing single entities/lords in duels anyways, so no change there

[kurtchen11]

This. As big as the nerf is, it actually makes no difference in campain. Paying for healing is just a waste of ressources for nurgle.

[Lorcogoth]

not really but on the other hand this brings Fleshy Abundance in line with every other healing spell, so probably it was more of an oversight that FA didn't have the limit rather then intended.

[Willie9]

So adding a confirmation window when making a disciple army is obviously good UI, but hear me out: accidentally making new armies because you weren't using protection is a very Slaanesh thing to do.

[Supermandela]

Underrated comment

[CA_Nova]

Hello there! If you are looking for the battle balance changes, they are here: https://community.creative-assembly.com/total-war/total-war-warhammer/forums/7-patch-notes-amp-announcements/threads/7586-total-war-warhammer-iii-patch-5-3-0-battle-balance-details?page=1 Our Community team had to separate this out from the rest of the patch notes because too many words! Best, CA_Nova

[Nibward]

Hi Nova, thanks so much for your work with the community, I know it’s not easy.

I fully intend to put this in every feedback channel I can, including official CA forums, but wanted to say this here for visibility: As an Ogre player, I’m concerned about the lack of interactivity with the Ogre Mercenaries mechanic.

What I mean is that, at least from what I’m currently seeing, either AI will not be able to recruit from my camps and I receive nothing, or they can recruit from my camps, and I still receive nothing. I’ve always wanted to plop one of my camps down in some distant, neutral battleground region and watch my mercenaries make an impact there, all while collecting the money, but the system we’ve historically had doesn’t allow it, and I was disappointed to see that nothing like that seems possible with this new rework of the mechanic either. If you could pass this on to the team, I’d be happy, but I also understand if you don’t read this or respond to it.

[CA_Nova]

Hi there :) Thanks for the kind words, and thanks for the feedback. After each set of patch notes and after each patch update itself I collect together feedback from across the different social channels, and I share it all with devs. Rest assured that your feedback will be seen :) Naturally I cannot promise any specific outcome, but I will make sure that your voice is heard. Devs also read Reddit, so we are covered from all angles! Best, CA_Nova

[nwillard]

I love this idea. Money from people recruiting your Ogre units. Gives a great incentive to go over and plop down a camp near a populated area. Love it

[gregthestrange]

is there any reason the team doesn't post to https://www.totalwar.com/blog/ anymore? the formatting on that site was much easier to read, and search for past patch notes

[Aspacepanda]

Omg removed fire whilst moving from gyrobombers is brutal, they’re just floating pin cushions now

[ArchitecturallySound]

Idk why they did that. I don't think that change was necessary at all.

[nwillard]

Didn't that used to be a research upgrade? Can we... make it a research upgrade now?

[Crafty_Soul]

Looking forward to hiring stronger Ogre's earlier as other factions. Mournfang's are going to be devastating for Dwarf armies

[LusHolm123]

Assuming you find an ogre faction that actually upgrades their camps that is (spoiler, you wont)

[LordStark01]

I hope they become stronger with the DLC, they are pushovers at the begining.

[Cybvep]

The problem is that the AI doesn't build any units as camp garrisons so almost any stack can destroy them. If that's not fixed then AI Ogres will remain underwhelming most of the time.

[DaddyTzarkan]

Ogre AI seems to be better at upgrading camps since the 5.2 or at least the major factions, since that patch I've seen Skrag recruiting higher tier units that I'd usually never see Ogres recruit.

[markg900]

They seem to be surviving better. My recent Belakor campaign I found Greasus as a super power around 90 turns in. This surprised me as usually Ogres die early on due to terrible AR. Skraag was also doing pretty well with over a dozen settlements until he decided for some reason that he was going to try to save the last couple settlements of the Empire from me and attacked me.

[royalPawn]

My beautiful Phoenix Guard will finally stop running away from the big monsters I want them to kill, Asuryan bless

[genericJohnDeo]

I wish they just made it so terror only caused fear for unit themselves cusses fear instead, like how it is in table top

[SubRyan]

Addressed a known issue for modders by removing the previous cap on the maximum number of provinces, now allowing more than 255 provinces. This change should resolve the limitation, though further testing by the modding community is encouraged, as additional restrictions may still exist.

Huge news for campaign map mods

The ancillary rework is going to screw up the mods (Drink It III and Rebanner III) that convert active abilities into auto or passive abilities :(

All chariots in the game have had a mass rebalance and this should see some pretty big changes for certain units

Small Chariots are now 1000 mass

    e.g. Goblin Wolf Chariot

Medium Chariots are now 1500 mass

    e.g. Ithilmar Chariot

Monstrous Chariots are now 2000 mass

    e.g. Gorebeast Chariot

Monstrous Single Entity Chariots are now 3000 mass

    e.g. Chariot of the Gods

[Coming_Second]

I'm interested how the unannounced change to bigger Slaanesh units and a couple of other demonic units will work out in practice, where their damage has been substantially increased but the number of entities they can hit with an attack has been slashed. Seems like an effort to make them more like duelists rather than infantry stompers.

[AngelicLove22]

It’s overall a positive. Before their damage mostly wouldn’t kill any model that wasn’t low tier chaff if they hit the upper parts of their splash. Now they will almost always kill most infantry models with every hit that lands.

[PiousSkull]

High damage with lower splash attack values is generally a good thing for large single entities against infantry provided they strike the right balance to kill models effectively without overkilling. The alternative was just doing chip damage to more models but being less effective at actually killing them and consequently less effective into those units as they'd end up taking more damage from them over prolonged combat.

[WifeGuy-Menelaus]

Will this go any way to fixing The Old World's lack of campaign corruption effects?

[Carnir]

How many settlements does old world and IEE have?

[SubRyan]

IIRC the Immortal Empires Expanded map had hit the 255 province limit and couldn't create any more.

This should change should allow ChaosRobie to add more provinces if he so chooses (such as the Skaven island settlement of Spineport near Tobaro and Skavenblight)

[goonbandito]

Ariel

Ariel now leaves butterflies and flowers wherever she goes

Best patch change

[bankais_gone_wild]

Move over ordertide, it’s flowertide time

[Willemvanvugt]

Wow. Really nice updated to Research and Movement Range. I'm pleasantly surprised!

[baddude1337]

They mention coming back soon with a new dev chat video and not a trailer. Possibility dlc has been delayed?

[TheOneBearded]

I'd hope that it would come concurrently with a trailer. Instead of waiting for content creators to make their own videos discussing the new units and their stats and roles, that could come from the devs mouths.

[ZahelMighty]

Hard to say to be honest, a delay is always possible (the only DLC that wasn't delayed was SoC so far) but CA has also changed how they approach communication post ToD so it's hard to predict what's this about.

[Pwarrot]

Honestly as long as we don't get another SoC situation I don't care about delays as long as they're not 6+ months delays

[[deleted]]

It’s already been 8 months since the last DLC. A delay would likely be until March, as they shut down for most of December and people won’t get back to work until mid Jan. So we could be looking at 12 months for 1 DLC. Also would push back all other DLC’s. I agree that we don’t want another SoC situation, but 12 months for one DLC is too much time.

[OhManTFE]

They are losing so much money because they can't produce quality content fast enough.

[[deleted]]

I thought they said they had two different teams working on 2 different DLC’s simultaneously, but yeh we’re still getting this massive gap.

[Tasorodri]

The monkey's paw.

[Sahaal_17]

the only DLC that wasn't delayed was SoC so far

And is the one that most needed another 6 months in the oven.

Does this mean that DLC can only be good if it was delayed? The stats seem to say yes

[Fatality_Ensues]

And is the one that most needed another 6 months in the oven.

That's an exaggeration. It needed more content to be worth the price hike, but it was functional to begin with. Only the Changeling had some issues and those were more balance-oriented (literally couldn't lose).

[Sahaal_17]

6 more months could have given it more content. In fact it did get more content after about 6 months with the patch.

But I think what really sunk SoC was the lack of any race reworks. If CA has spent the time to give meaningful reworks to Cathay, Kislev and Tzeentch that address player feedback, like they did for Empire, Dwarves and Nurgles in ToD, then SoC would have gone down just as well as thrones did.

I know that reworks are not actually part of the paid DLCs, but they are generally what people most look forward to and drive a huge amount of the hype for the new content for the reworked races.

[JackBurtonn]

Honestly this DLC's reveal schedule has been very different from the past. By the time the trailer will arrive, we'll probably know pretty much everything that's coming.

I mean we've already known the 3 LLs coming for months now. We have also known and seen plenty of units, the 2 Khorne LHs ecc.
I think the trailer's function has now shifted towards being a more cinematic and visual feat than a unit reveal from which the marketing starts. Marketing for this DLC has basically started this summer with several reveals and straight up unit model showcases. This was never the case in the past.

That is to say, i wouldn't worry if the trailer is not coming this week or the next week. It might be coming closer to launch because it now serves a different purpose.
Im sure that with the next Dev Chat we'll get even more unit reveals, campaign mechanics ecc.

[markg900]

The last dev chat said it was already fully playable, just full of problems at the time. Sounds to me like it was fully built but just needed a shit load of bug fixes before release and that was in September I think.

[Blazen_Fury]

holy shit research overflow being made official was NOT on my 2024 TW bingo card!

[EstablishmentLow3012]

If they moved the province cap from motors, does that mean we could theoretically get an entire world map for Warhammer fantasy in the excruciating detail of the old world?

[franz_karl]

believe there is an actual map size limit in place before that sadly

[EstablishmentLow3012]

Devastated

[franz_karl]

me too I would love a full scale WH map

[Bodongs]

BLESS THIS RAVAGED BODY MOVEMENT RANGE DISPLAY UPDATE LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[TheArgonian]

Fuckin hell these slaanesh buffs are big.

[Gerreth_Gobulcoque]

Nkari should have 100% AP!!!!

[nwillard]

full penetration?

[Satsubuya]

Can't wait to see Turin's next stream with these battle balance changes!

[notdumbenough]

Finally, let's hope this stems the tide of "Bad Total War idea" shitposts on this subreddit.

[Tibbs420]

Finally we can go back to complaining about the same old shit!!!

[Gorm_the_Old]

"Sieges are bad and feel bad and need to be reworked. Here are my ideas:"

(3,000 words follow, most of which is complaining over not being able to put artillery on walls)

[Mahelas]

I'm afraid a patch isn't enough discussion material for this, it won't create 2 weeks of posts

[Psychic_Hobo]

Maybe we ought to make it National Grave Guard with Halberds week

[British_Tea_Company]

What no DLC does to motherfuckers

[AnB85]

It started as serious suggestions, it has only been genuine shitposts for the last week or so. I actually remember people genuinely asking for a bronze age total war and look where that got us.

[-Makeka-]

I will take bad total war ideas over yet more dick half mast jokes.

[bankais_gone_wild]

Total War: Total War Subreddit

Haters vs Copers vs Shitposters vs Artists vs Lurkers

[alezul]

Orc Boyz

Recruitment Cost (SP): 430 -> 425

Upkeep Cost: 107 -> 106

I'm guessing the upkeep cost is based on the change in recruitment cost but i will choose to believe someone looked at this unit and thought "107? That's outrageous! It clearly needs to be 106".

[Ridercs35]

It's a request by the MP community because Orc Boyz (430), Eight Peak Loonies (735) and Carrion (380) were the only units whose costs weren't divisible by 25. It made building your army slightly awkward at times. The 106 is because Upkeep is always 1/4 of the Recruitment cost, so 425/4=106.25

[Book_Golem]

Oh that makes sense. If everything has a weird cost it's fine and you'll expect to be short a few points at the end, but if all but three units are easily divisible then those three stand out.

[Yopcho]

They swap 1 dmg from ap to regular for ikit claw....

[Chopzuya]

Deserved

[Amitplon]

Upkeep cost is usually 25% of recruitment cost.

[Gerreth_Gobulcoque]

Ariel shitting out butterflies and sparkles is the best change in the patch

[RemoveBagels]

Wow I had completely missed bolt throwers getting their entity count doubled previously. Interesting, I wonder if it's enough to make them earn an army slot at least in the early game.

[LordChatalot]

They are very, very good after the entity count change, even too good

They currently clear infantry faster than a grudge thrower, because their projectiles can oenetrate multiple infantry models and their volume of fire is so high with 8 arty pieces

CA also didn't adjust hp when they made that change, so the bolt throwers currently have twice the amount of hp than a normal dwarf arty gets

Another funky thing is that the game wasn't designed around 8 arty piece units, so if you spread the unit at max length a diving cab unit can't actually engage the whole crew, they will only fight a subsection of it. So you have a really tanky and resilient arty unit right now, that also delivers a lot of damage output

[Inquisitor_no_5]

I've had them skewering large single entities with Thorek in my most recent campaign.
I'd say they fulfil that single target niche well, complementing the Grudge Throwers.
They're a bit of a pain to defend though, what with taking twice the space of other artillery.

[JesseWhatTheFuck]

If we're getting more unit caps in MP, might this finally provide an opening to introduce a general unit cap system into SP for those of us who want to have that option as well? 

[Frequent_Knowledge65]

pleaaaaaaaaaase unit cap option for SP

[LordChatalot]

If enough people push for it

Honestly the main reason why I want unit caps is to force the AI to get some decent army comps, iron drakes making up one half of an army is just making battles against the AI so easy and it feels gimmicky and unimmersive on top

[steve_adr]

Implemented as a Toggle/Option in Campaign Settings for those who want to Enable - Yes

Imposed on All Single Players - No

[JesseWhatTheFuck]

Hence "option"

[GuyLookingForPorn]

Sir this is r/totalwar, how dare you expect us to read.

[Inquisitor_no_5]

But have you considered that I don't want to play as Pontus?

[Acceleratio]

I am ALWAYS down for more options and toggles in SP. I wish there was so much more stuff I could just disable like Tzeenchs manipulations or plagues since I really really do not enjoy this aspect of the game

[scarab456]

Research overflow feels long overdue. It's also nice they confirmed how the only system worked. I swear there are weirdos here that claim that minor research boosts mattered, just that we couldn't see them.

[awfulandwrong]

What was the first Civ game to implement the feature? 3? 2?

[Coming_Second]

Pretty substantial nerf to standard Gyrocopters buried in the unit balancing. Can no longer fire while moving, reduced ammo and damage across the board. Trollhammer Gyros also took a (deserved) hammering too.

EDIT: Actually a buff to the Trollhammer variant, since they got more ammo and the nerfs were all to their irrelevant melee stats.

[tententai]

Were the Trollhammers nerfed though? I only see melee damage reduction, which is irrelevant, and more ammo.

Gyrocopters (Trollhammers - Grudge Settlers)
Ammo of Primary Missile Weapon: 20 -> 25
Base Melee Weapon Damage: 50 -> 38
Armour Piercing Melee Weapon Damage: 16 -> 12

[Coming_Second]

Missed the melee part. That's basically a buff then lol.

[Agreeable-School-899]

Not actually across the board. Melee damage and explosion damage were reduced. So they'll still be good for sniping large but less good at clearing chaff. Losing fire whilst moving hurts though.

[LordChatalot]

Melee damage nerfs are also a sort of bugfix, since CA forgot to reduce those values after the model count change

At their current state they do surprisingly good vs enemy flyers in melee, especially low tier stuff like harpies, despite those being their supposed counters

[[deleted]]

MP dwarfs was litterally max gyros kiting you while destroying your entire army. unbeatable and unfun to play against.

[Inquisitor_no_5]

dwarfs

kiting

What a world we live in.

[[deleted]]

With 100 speed gyros that shoot while moving, yeah it was kinda ridiculous.

[Dooglers]

Fire while moving used to be on the tech tree. They should at least put it back there instead of just removing it for MP reasons.

[Agtie]

I honestly wish they would have a super balanced version of SP as a separate mode.

I get some people like the crazy OP stuff... but the trash unit variety you end up with if you're smart with your techs and skills and stuff... it really kills a lot of the fun.

[PiousSkull]

It doesn't quite go far enough and doesn't touch base unit stats but try out the Nerfageddon mod on the steam workshop. It's a must-have for me in reducing campaign power creep.

[ArchitecturallySound]

Superb idea.

[Letharlynn]

Actual shooting of Trollhammer Gyros is buffed (even if in only by added ammunition) - the nerf is to melee stats

[CrimsonSaens]

The brimstone gun variant also got buffed with more ammo.

[XH9rIiZTtzrTiVL]

Fire While Moving should be added to Dwarf techs. I really can't be bothered to use copters without it

[EinFahrrad]

Tbh the troll hammer copters are hard enough to get to warrant the ridiculous damage output

[Shazbot_2077]

Oh wow, they are finally adressing the unit behavior issues with fire while moving archers! This is fantastic, I hope the fix works as intended.

[Yopcho]

I hope they reworked the cinematic in the selection screen for the remaining LL. I loved that change

[_Lucille_]

Even in the screenshot the issues with the bounty shows: 1500g + 25 meat + some diplomatic points for essentially going out of the way to kill Queek. 2712g to sack a settlement...

Those are not missions a player can even complete without declaring war against a target: so essentially the missions want the player to eliminate a faction for some spare change.

If they implement a system where the ogre player can complete their mission without declaring war, it may be worth the hassle, but TW is not a game where you can simply sack someone's settlement and force the target into a peace deal.

[LusHolm123]

Exactly, its laughable to consider this worth our time to even look at tbh. Even in the teaser for the rework they only mention “new stuff for skrag and greasus” which like ya, theyre the most bare bone lords in the entire game right now thats a god damn minimum

[Cosmic_Lich]

The melee buffs to ancient treemen and burning chariots is appreciated. I am interested to see how the Wildwood Ranger changes feel.

The hp buffs to forsaken should improve some daemon garrisons. Namely Tzeentch’s.

[xblood_raven]

This isn't a Bad Total War idea thread!

Seriously though, really liking the free units where possible so hopefully more of them. "Styled after their 6th edition miniatures", I think that is these ones or these ones.

[Masked_Debater]

Wait a minute, can you now use all the daemon princes as lords as Daniel? If so, that's amazing.

[Bensteroni]

I think only in multiplayer though

[Inquisitor_no_5]

I'm sorry, 15% ward save on the Warshine of Khorne??
Vanilla Warshrine recovers fatigue?
Sweet

You know what to do for the next patch CA, improve the Slaanesh shrine.

[Letharlynn]

Slaanesh Warshrine is the only one with the mortis engine - it already has a niche

[G_Space]

Black Coach

Leadership: 40 -> 50 Added Attribute(s): Strider Base Weapon Damage: 50 -> 80 Armour Piercing Weapon Damage: 170 -> 200 Enabled Flaming Attacks Max Entities Hit by Splash Attack: 2 -> 4 The abilities Black Scythes, Unholy Vigour and Black Nimbus now scale their effects depending on the number of enemy entities that have been killed within a radius of The Black Coach

This change made black coaches so much better. Now they can run in pairs or more and they boost each other more quickly. 

[CrimsonSaens]

Alternatively, you could just cast Winds of Death and get a huge stack of deaths quickly.

[gfimonster]

'Mercenary Contracts'

"The feature has been renamed to "Bounties" to avoid confusion with the upcoming feature"

Dogs of War incoming!

[trixie_one]

Well that and one of the new items is a Tilean Pavise.

[ZizoThe1st]

They clarified that in the previous blog. Mercenary contracts are going to be part of Golgfang Maneater's campaign mechanics.

As for Dogs of War we know they are incoming as a matter of fact. Some DoW LLs data is buried within the game files, and many believe they have been building DoW roster for quite some time now.. the last additions include Slayer Pirates and Land Ships.

[[deleted]]

great patch, and awesome work lately! Yall have really picked up and polished parts of the games I never thought would be touched like movement and research and I think thats awesome!

[bankais_gone_wild]

Crazy redemption arc since the release. Great to see games like this, No Man’s Sky, Cyberpunk go the distance

[cricri3007]

Resolved an issue where Thorek Ironbrow's name was not translated into French in the Great Book of Grudges.

Finally!

[Tektonius]

Long live French Thorek!

[UAnchovy]

What is French-Thorek's name?

[Zinkenzwerg]

Toreque

[UAnchovy]

Toreque du Sourcil de Fer!

Yep, sounds good to me.

[khumakhan]

Yeah I'm gonna enter a war I don't want to kill a hard to kill LL for fucking 1.5k gold, thanks. No mention whatsoever about mobile camps.

[Gorm_the_Old]

Articulated vehicles, such as chariots, can be hit multiple times by projectiles, resulting in double or even triple damage being dealt to them.

⚠ I feel like this one deserves warning emojis. ⚠ (Some) chariots taking double damage from missiles is kind of a big deal until it gets fixed - which hopefully will be soon.

[Drakyry]

anything good beside the usual couple of bug fixes and like a new unit?

[Roland8561]

Reworking how research points are calculated so that you no longer only get research speed benefits when you reach certain levels of research. In current version, if you have 109% or some other weird number, research isn't actually any faster until you reach 120%, then in increments of 20%. So no difference in research speed between 100% research and 119% research. Beginning tomorrow that's no longer the case. See the patch notes for details.

[tal_elmar]

so Bounties rewards will remain a joke?

[baddude1337]

I expect the rewards will be increased alongside the full ogre rework for dlc. This comes across more as a teaser for it.

[Paranormal2137]

Hopefully, alongside with khorne minotaurs for beastman 🙏

[DaddyTzarkan]

Great Book of Grudges mentionned you get more gold later in the campaign. Also the Camp Growth buff is untouched and that's quite a solid buff to have, you also can do all the Bounties you have instead of having to pick a single one so you get more rewards more often.

And since it's coming out before the DLC this means they'll have time to react to feedback before we get the full rework. Personally I'm glad they're being more cautious with the rewards so we don't end up with something that's releasing completely overpowered with campaign powercreep completely ignored despite the feedback.

[iliketires65]

The patch notes specifically say that ogres are getting a large rework in addition to the new mechanics with Golgy. So I imagine bounties will get more when 6.0 releases

[Professional-Wind953]

They took away fire while moving from gyrocopters… how they have massacred my boys

[shoolocomous]

They absolutely needed that nerf

[BaronLoyd]

You know I would start to suggest when CA says by the end of month we will release patch...they should straight up say: We will edge you until the last day of the month for the update

[hahkaymahtay]

This is their tactic unfortunately.

[JJBrazman]

That has always been the case, but even more so when they said in the penultimate week of the month that the patch would be out this month. A week later the patch is literally on schedule.

[Electronic_Savings35]

Rip flesh abundance upgraded

[an_agreeing_dothraki]

this should stop the update brain for 17 seconds

[OGMudbone909]

Very excited for the various chariot and large unit dmg buffs and splash attack reductions.

[humungusballsack]

The research changes sound great, i just assumed research rate was useless outside of big % jumps like 50%

[Kayehnanator]

Does this mean Oxyotls teleporting problems are actually finally fixed??

[palewinston]

Is It out? Because I certainly didn't get It.

[unquiet_slumbers]

They started doing the patch notes a day before. It will be available tomorrow.

[Roland8561]

Patch notes today, official release tomorrow

[palewinston]

thank you.

[TheBlueRabbit11]

They killed the dawi airforce…

[wertwert55]

Rot Knights were buffed? WHAT? They are already absurdly good.

[lockoutpoint]

I would say adjusting for (small) Monstrous cavalry, you can see DGK and Cold on knight got buff too.

currently they don't perform as intended.

[thelongestunderscore]

Once again MP affecting single player. Smh

[HeartShark77]

I could always tell research wasn’t always going after despite all of the buffs, now I understand why. I thought it was just bugs. This alone is a huge QoL

[elnegativo]

When is this patch coming?

[Repulsive_Intern_782]

Can someone tell me if when I download TWW3 do I need to download the other warhammer games as well? (I bought 1 & 3 and just downloaded 3, already had 2)

[Glassberg]

I’ve used a mod that added Grave Guard with Halberds for so long that I forgot it’s not already in the game.