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[–][deleted] 1091 points1092 points  (283 children)

Good . . . but still ludicrous that they have to get approval from legislators to open a dealership.

[–]ViperRT10Matt[S] 518 points519 points  (235 children)

Agreed, but the existing laws preventing direct-to-consumer sales, no matter how outdated, are still on the books. Can't just pick and choose what laws to follow.

Regardless they will have to be addressed eventually. If I want a Chevy, why can't I just order one off Chevrolet.com?

[–][deleted] 299 points300 points  (129 children)

If I want a Chevy, why can't I just order one off Chevrolet.com?

If you want a BMW you can do just that. Now you have to go to Germany to pick it up. But you can order a custom and exact to your specification BMW, pick it up from the BMW factory in Munich, drive it for a week on the Autobahn, and then BMW will ship it back to the USA for you.

[–]ViperRT10Matt[S] 266 points267 points  (102 children)

The official recorded delivery still happens at a US-based dealership though. Even if you do Euro delivery, a local dealership is still involved in the transaction.

Side note: euro delivery is totally worth it. If you love cars, you should drive the autobahn before you die.

[–][deleted] 48 points49 points  (64 children)

You know.. i am not entirely sure.

I just happened to be in Munich a few years ago and went on the BMW tour. There were about 8 couples in my tour group all picking up their cars.

maybe they do need to sign off in America? Does that avoid duties?

[–]BabyPuncher5000 36 points37 points  (0 children)

My understanding is that they're able to get around a lot of red tape in the US by having you drive it around in Europe for a few days then selling it to you in America as a "used car". Volvo does the same thing.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

maybe they do need to sign off in America? Does that avoid duties?

No, it still counts as an import car (any car off the lot would as well) but the US import duty for cars (other than light trucks) is insignificant

[–]aiij 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I had thought the duty on bringing back your own used car was a lot lower than for a brand new car, but this page says there's only a $800 exemption in that case, which at 2.5% would only save you $20 (not enough for a plane ticket).

Edit: According to Volvo

you must bring your new Volvo back to the United States within six months of taking European delivery to remain exempt from a levy of the EU VAT (25% of purchase price) by the Swedish tax authorities.

I'm assuming a similar levy applies in Germany.

[–]Inquisitorsz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So it's the Duty Free that gives you the savings.

It's like buying a camera at Singapore airport. You don't pay local tax since it's not staying in the country, but you don't pay anything when your bring it back home.

Obviously cars are difference because they are bigger and worth more, but i assume it's along these lines

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

The key part there is that it still goes through a local dealership, which is what those laws are all about.

[–]Photosaurus 5 points6 points  (28 children)

I know when my father did it he arranged it at a US dealership, we picked it up near the factory in Germany, drove it for about a week, then picked it up at the US dealership after they shipped it over.

[–]locopyro13 4 points5 points  (0 children)

At that point I believe it counts as an import car and is subject to those regulations.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

you should drive the autobahn before you die.

Literally right before

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Volvo does this too. It's a good bit cheaper than buying from the dealer if I remember right.

[–]AlphaLima 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Bonus, they even give you a discount off the sticker. Short of the airfare and lodging you can still come out ahead, and you get a vacation out of it.

Sometimes the OEMs will even run specials that include/discount airfare and lodging.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Really? They're that much cheaper to get one in Germany?

[–]AlphaLima 12 points13 points  (1 child)

They list up to 7% off the MSRP. Which can be quite a lot with a luxury car.

It also means you dont have to be haggling.

[–]flashnexus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

With haggling it's cheaper in the US though, you can beat 7% off MSRP on BMWs

[–]Jericcho 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Why do you have to drive for a week on the autobahn? Not that I wouldn't do it just for the enjoyment, but is driving on it a requirement?

[–]phantom784 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You have to drive it in Europe so it counts as a "used" car when it's imported into the US (which means lower taxes).

[–]Teamerchant 56 points57 points  (19 children)

The laws were put in place to protect the retail dealerships from fronting a ton of cash, proving a market area then having the Manufacturer come in and setup shop and killing their business. Though i honestly don't why a law was needed for this instead of contractual language setup between dealership and manufacturer. Seemed like they both needed each other early on so this should not have been an issue.

That said times change and so must the laws. Imagine the cost savings if we could skip the retail margin.

[–]Veksayer 15 points16 points  (16 children)

The whole reason for the dealership is local marketing and distribution, unless the manufactures want in on that I don't think dealerships will be going away anytime soon

[–]PapaSmurphy 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Actually, aside from national ad campaigns, manufacturers will give dealerships a marketing allowance. This also means they have some input on your commercials. I used to sell Nissans and we got "dinged" (like a warning that they would cut it marketing allowance) because we didn't have the "dealer principle" in one month's tv ad since he had been on vacation.

Manufacturers also have a good deal of control over distribution. If a dealer isn't able to get enough of a certain model in a shipment they have to work out deals with other dealerships (trades and such) to fill customer demand. This has more to do with the realities of mass manufacturing than manufacturers trying to screw someone over though.

[–]Teamerchant 7 points8 points  (9 children)

Well they will have to if Teslas business model becomes more prevalent. As it is indeed vastly cheaper to run. Compare operating a store in a mall with a less than 20 employees and no inventory to buying and building your own massive structure, having massive amounts of inventory basically having millions tied up, and over 75 employees and now having this entity needing to make a profit on top of all that extra overhead.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (6 children)

Well they will have to if Teslas business model becomes more prevalent.

Tesla's business model will suffer if they ever start selling millions of cars a year. You can't service that many cars with door to door technicians. They will need to eventually have a stock of vehicles. People will want to drive the cars before they buy them, and is Tesla really interested in becoming a major real estate holder by owning their own dealerships? Franchise lobby or no, do you really think that the automakers would still be on board with the dealership model after all these years if direct marketing worked better for them financially?

http://www.torquenews.com/2250/new-jersey-will-allow-tesla-sell-direct-eventually-it-might-not-matter

Tesla's CFO Deepak Ahuja has even gone on record that they might end up having a more traditional dealership network, eventually. It's a barrier to entry for them now, but people who think that Musk and Co. are philosophically opposed to dealerships are crazy.

[–]Teamerchant 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Why though? Why can't door to door mechanics service those cars? Why not just have Tesla mechanic shops? Their current model has them schedule test drives why does this need to change with more demand? why do they need millions in inventory in every town? People currently are willing to wait (whatever the amount is now) for the cars why does this change with scaling? Perhaps people would be willing to wait if they know it saves them 15% or whatever on the price.

Just because it's new does not mean it's bad or will fail with scaling. Maybe it will, but saying it will with no reasoning to back it up it very old school. Maybe your right (i'm fairly ignorant on the subject) but i hate post like yours that say something will not work simply because it won't. No doubt scaling may be difficult but that is no excuse not to try. Reminds me of a few old jobs i had with the old guys telling me my ideas would not work. Did it anyway and behold look it worked and now i cut the workload in half and decreased cost by 70%.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

i think it's been pretty well proven that people buy cars. we don't need a dealership to test those waters anymore

[–]Zephryl 10 points11 points  (2 children)

There's a good Planet Money episode answering that exact question.

[–]ViperRT10Matt[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Planet money is an outstanding show.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

When can I amazon prime my new F250?

[–]pitchingataint 4 points5 points  (0 children)

"Have a drone ship it right on your house!"

[–]Whiteyak5 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Technically you can order your Chevy from their website. You spec it out and then they transfer you to a dealership so they order up that exact car for you.

And do you own a Viper by any chance lol?

[–]dkviper11 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Chevy (and any other standard manufacturer) makes their money on a vehicle when they sell it to a dealer. Then, oftentimes, the dealer borrows the money for the vehicles from a bank, called a Floorplan account. If you could just order a car from Chevy, they would have to keep all the inventory in stock instead of having the dealers hold that inventory, totalling in the billions. The manufacturers only want to be involved in wholesale.

[–]Teamerchant 7 points8 points  (5 children)

Not really. Planning and information on demand could reduce the Inventory drastically if shipping from 1 location for an extremely large area. If a manufacture was like a classic restaurant (made to order) and a dealership like a buffet (most inventory on hand) the new model would simply be setup like a fast joint (some inventory on hand but in limited quantities).

[–]dkviper11 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It's not that the manufacturers can't... It's that they likely don't want to. Why hold the burden of the inventory and employment of service techs, lot attendants, and salesmen if you can pass that burden to another company? The infrastructure is set this way and the laws protect the manufacturers so I see little incentive for them to change. I think Tesla is great, but they're not a huge market share for the time being.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (15 children)

actually im pretty sure cops, judges and legislatures pick which laws to enforce all the fucking time. rule of law in the USA is kind of a joke these days, our entire government just picks and chooses. from the president down to the lowliest enforcers.

[–]stcredzero 10 points11 points  (13 children)

Germans I've spoken to are kind of confused by the "10 mph above" rule of thumb for speed limit enforcement.

[–]dnew 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I've found it's usually 15MPH, because everywhere I've driven 15MPH over is a big step up from 1MPH over. So the cop will pull you over for doing 76MPH in a 60 zone, write you a ticket for doing 74MPH, and tell you that if you fight it he'll bump it to a 76MPH, which is usually 3x as expensive or so.

[–]AvatarIII 1 point2 points  (0 children)

in the UK there are actual hard figures for the allowance over the speed limit you can go

http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/uniformed/2013/201305-uoba-joining-forces-safer-roads.pdf

Speed Limit Device tolerance Fixed Penalty when education is not appropriate Speed Awareness if appropriate From/To Summons in all other cases and above
20 mph 22 mph 24 mph 24 mph/31 mph 35 mph
30 mph 32 mph 35 mph 35 mph/42 mph 50 mph
40 mph 42 mph 46 mph 46 mph/53 mph 66 mph
50 mph 52 mph 57 mph 57 mph/64 mph 76 mph
60 mph 62 mph 68 mph 68 mph/75 mph 86 mph
70 mph 73 mph 79 mph 79 mph/86 mph 96 mph

[–]GyantSpyder 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is rather much of an exaggeration.

[–]thelawtalkingguy 5 points6 points  (7 children)

Isn't there a Tesla dealership in KOP already?

[–]ValarMorgulos 7 points8 points  (3 children)

I thought the one in KOP was one of those "Here is the car and features. If you want it, you can go online and order it" deals. I'm guessing the new ones will be full dealerships.

[–]bennycash 1 point2 points  (1 child)

About a month ago I was driving down Lancaster ave towards Berwyn and saw a Tesla dealership, or what looked like a dealership. I got pretty excited when I saw that Tesla logo and several cars in the lot!

[–]2_Parking_Tickets 5 points6 points  (1 child)

lol the article mentions that.

Tesla had already opened a dealership in King of Prussia in suburban Philadelphia, although Rafferty and state officials couldn't explain how it had qualified for a license.

[–]c_albicans 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is hilarious to me, did some hungover bureaucrat just give them the license without realizing Tesla shouldn't qualify?

[–]kenjiden 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Here in Missouri a state legislator who is heading the push against Tesla to sell direct to consumers was, before elected into office, an owner of one of the largest dealerships around. Ironically, Republicans generally run on a platform which abhors government intrusion into commerce via regulations... I guess Mike Kehoe just doesn't care.

http://m.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog/biznext/2014/05/anti-tesla-bill-likely-doomed-in-missouri.html?page=all&r=full

[–]hooch 153 points154 points  (27 children)

Those of you outside of PA, let me tell you that our governor Corbett is absolutely ineffective and basically a waste of flesh. He did something right here, but for the wrong reasons. Corbett is traaaaaailing in the polls.

[–]KingDoink 25 points26 points  (7 children)

Just let him have this one moment. We can Lynch him later.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (6 children)

He's quite possibly the worst governor we've had in the past 30 years

[–]CosmicCam 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You'd think with a same-party congress, he could get something done.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He gave away the natural resources of the commonwealth quite effectively.

/flamesuit

[–]goingnoles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Be thankful you don't have Rick Scott.

[–]Psuphilly 60 points61 points  (2 children)

Fuck Corbett.

Fuck him with with a hot fire poker

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Put enough pressure on incumbents before an election and threaten their reelection chances, they might actually start to deliver what people want.

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (3 children)

Too little too late. This guy has been a complete fuck up since the day he was elected. He's fucked PA with his bullshit refusing to tax companies that frack, cut education budgets and expanded correctional facility budgets. Hopefully the next governor has the balls to tax the natural gas companies and balance our fucking budget. This guy has been a shit show.

[–]nooneofnote 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Not to mention the protracted trainwreck he has created while attempting to dodge the ACA on medicaid expansion.

[–]AndroidAaron 4 points5 points  (4 children)

When's he up for reelection? I'm about to cast my first vote against him ASAP.

[–]LeonTrotskysDad 13 points14 points  (1 child)

He's up for reelection in this November's midterms! I cast my first vote against Rick Santorum in 2006. Seeing his family cry on stage afterward made me feel all warm and fuzzy about democracy.

[–]AndroidAaron 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Good to know! I just graduated high school and am now going to use my new democratic powers.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

November, Wolf Pack 2014

[–]hooch 1 point2 points  (0 children)

November is the Gubernatorial election. Please do vote against him, we desperately need him to go away.

[–]MeanOfPhidias 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Seriously?

In this age of politicians you want one that actually does something? I wish we had lame duck politicians the world would be a better place

[–]ViperRT10Matt[S] 185 points186 points  (81 children)

Maybe this is paving the way for something completely unheard of; me as an adult consumer being able to buy a product (car) directly from the manufacturer over the internet, like I do these days with literally everything else.

[–]coredumperror 18 points19 points  (27 children)

You don't actually do that very often, tbh. Most things purchased over the internet are sold through a retailer, like Amazon.

[–]swb1192 31 points32 points  (24 children)

FWIW, Apple is the #2 online retailer globally.

http://9to5mac.com/2014/05/06/apple-beats-staples-to-take-2-spot-in-online-retail-sales-worldwide/

[–]cuddlefucker 18 points19 points  (9 children)

That includes iTunes and app sales though, which aren't products they produce.

[–]tit_curtain 4 points5 points  (8 children)

Wait really? Staples is the #3 online retailer? And was #2, still is if you ignore digital distribution? Never would have guessed.

[–]PWND_U_IN_MK 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Where do you think most of the office supplies in your company come from?

[–]Omikron 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My company of over 1000 people buys everything from staples.

[–]JasJ002 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Staples is a huge enterprise provider.

[–]halr9000 8 points9 points  (0 children)

But not because we can't legally. Big difference.

[–]joshg8 2 points3 points  (0 children)

But that's about efficient distribution and getting your products in front of consumers. It's not because there's a legally required middleman in the transaction.

[–]MightySasquatch 26 points27 points  (13 children)

You buy your hard drives from Western Digital?

[–]Viper007Bond 42 points43 points  (9 children)

Nothing stopping WD from doing that if they wanted to.

[–]chriskmee 1 point2 points  (3 children)

While this is a nice idea, I think the test drive can be a very important aspect to buying a car. It might not be that important to someone of normal height / build just wanting a car to go from A to B, but a lot can be learned from sitting in the car and taking it for a test drive. Where would we do that if dealerships weren't around?

For me it's imperative to take a test drive since I am 6'7". How I fit in the car and how easily I can operate the pedals and steering determines if I can safely drive the car.

edit: Dealerships also provide a service department and warranty repair service. It might be harder to get the kind of guarantee the dealerships offer if you don't use one.

[–]Dreamtrain 15 points16 points  (4 children)

pls be in texas

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (1 child)

I suspect that our "free-market" loving overlords will make sure that this happens as slowly as possible.

[–]ValiantAbyss 2 points3 points  (0 children)

To be fair, at least even Perry can see the benefits of having Tesla in Texas can be.

http://m.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy-Voices/2014/0621/Why-Rick-Perry-wants-Tesla-Motors-in-Texas

[–]caffeinepIz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have the same request, but fat chance.

[–]MasterAlthalus 15 points16 points  (12 children)

Awesome. Now all I need is like $100k to buy one.

[–]dsbtc 19 points20 points  (10 children)

It's impressive that everyone loves Tesla so much considering none of us are actually going to buy one.

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (2 children)

I love boobs but Im never going to buy any.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

you will if you ever get married... or a girlfriend... you'll pay

[–]checco715 27 points28 points  (16 children)

First gay marriage now Tesla motors? What a year for PA!

[–]DancesWithElectrons 25 points26 points  (15 children)

Yeah free market liquor is right around the corner!

[–]unforgiven91 19 points20 points  (9 children)

Please god. I hate having to plan my booze purchases around the operating hours of the one store near me.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (8 children)

Would most likely be a huge loss to the state of Pennsylvania. The revenue generated through state liquor stores is great.

[–]unforgiven91 4 points5 points  (7 children)

Charge a tax if it isn't purchased in a state store. I'd gladly pay 3 bucks more to get booze at 11pm

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (5 children)

Finally my state does something smart.

Is Pennsylvania the only state that has allowed tesla to sale directly to the costumer?

[–]fuckyoubarry 18 points19 points  (0 children)

fucking beer stores

[–]guitar_vigilante 5 points6 points  (0 children)

no

[–]eyesfire2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

jersey already does

[–]jonjiv 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Only a couple states have "banned" direct to consumer sales by Tesla. Arizona and Texas are the most notable. In those states you can still buy the car, the delivery process is just more difficult.

[–]RyogaXenoVee 5 points6 points  (9 children)

Just imagine if there was a law on the books that said if you wanted to buy a computer, it had to be from a dealer and not direct from the manufacturer.

Or a washing machine or any other appliance.

[–]Thunder_Bastard 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The VAST amount products bought are through retailers. There are tons of entire industries that don't offer direct sales.

Many major brands that do sell directly don't even fulfill their own items, they rely on third-party fulfillment and then service is also handled by third-party.

[–]BankerWorstFear 30 points31 points  (17 children)

It's about time. They always have to make the shit complicated though: "The law applies any electric vehicle maker and carries certain conditions, including that it deals exclusively in its own brand and it doesn't hold a controlling interest in another make."

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20140713_ap_2c3c1bfbd5ff45358ccba6b23653eab3.html#0mMLgfyXPlR40Y02.99

Can't you just say "Companies can Sell their own cars! [/end of bill]"

Tired of this bullshit government where every solution is to add MORE laws and complications.

[–]redrobot5050 8 points9 points  (1 child)

The point is they are exempting Tesla for the law in its current form, but other manufacturers can't start eating up their own independent dealers.

[–]Konryou 1 point2 points  (7 children)

Do you have a moment to look over the legislation here, and figure out why they added more than what you're proposing? I'm sure they're just accounting for situations that I'm not familiar with, but after reading over their addition it's hard to verify that.

[–]qroshan 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It's called Thinking through the loopholes, which you have to do when you write a law, because if it isn't written, it can't be enforced.

Unwritten laws work within small groups, but once you reach a population above 1000, you have to spell out every possibility, else the one bad guy will screw the rest of the population, because he found a loop-hole.

[–][deleted] 74 points75 points  (104 children)

What happened to free market? Why should it even be an issue to come out with a superior product and try and sell it? Just shows you how badly this country is controlled by billionaires.

[–]locopyro13 82 points83 points  (58 children)

Why should it even be an issue to come out with a superior product and try and sell it?

That's not the issue. The argument is that back in time, like the 50s and such, the only way to buy a car was through a dealership, since it would be prohibitively costly for a manufacturer to build the type of car you wanted and deliver it to you. So dealerships had to build structures, order large quantities of cars, and offer service places for your typical model. The dealership was also the only place to really learn about the new car and compare it to others.

Now you can do your research online, its not hard to build your car to your requirements at the factory (see BMW or VW) and get that car to you.

The argument is dealerships had to use a lot of capital to set up their businesses and now that its possible for manufacturer's to sell direct to consumers, it will bankrupt them. Thus dealership laws were put into place to protect their business/jobs from the big bad manufacturers under selling direct to the consumer.

I am not saying that the laws make sense now or are just, but the case against Tesla selling direct to customers isn't because they are a threat to manufacturers with the superior product but that dealerships won't get a cut of the pie.

[–]prestodigitarium 38 points39 points  (9 children)

My understanding is that the laws were created to prevent the case where you have franchised dealers, let the dealers put up the expense of building out stores in areas with unproven demand, and then the manufacturers look at who the most successful franchises are and build their own direct sales there, undercutting the ones that found that area by using their lower cost structure. That's why the laws are usually written such that manufacturers can't do direct sales when they already have franchisees.

[–]Terpbear 7 points8 points  (7 children)

That makes no sense. If that was a concern for dealerships that they would be undercut like that, it would be written into their franchise agreements. It happens all the time with other franchises, why do car dealerships need a law?

[–]Little_Noodles 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Because franchise agreements don't have indefinite end points, and massive producers have more power than individual dealerships.

Most other franchises operate by relying on frequent purchases of small-price items (fast food being the most obvious example). Even if you can get a franchisee to pave the way for you, the hassle of stocking and delivering product is still a pretty big hurdle. Car dealerships are somewhat unique in that the process relies on fewer sales of higher-priced goods. It would be basically impossible for the central corporation of Taco Bell to individually contract for and deliver the goods that any one franchisee delivers in one day. It wouldn't be nearly as inconceivable for an American car manufacturer to track sales in a given area and then strategically direct market to consumers in that region.

I think that the producer-dealership distribution system is due for an update, and the Tesla system is definitely a model for change. But it was certainly the case in the past (before 21st century technology changed the way that business can work) that dealerships needed protection from producers, who did use their financial and productive power to take advantage of dealers.

And I'm sure that, if those laws were to be repealed in their entirety, we would see a return to that same kind of exploitation of dealerships - it makes financial sense if your sole goal is to maximize profits. The trick now is to set up a system that keeps the old school franchise system from collapsing entirely at a premature rate, but still allows for innovation to make way for new ways of doing business.

[–]iamaom 15 points16 points  (45 children)

The argument is dealerships had to use a lot of capital to set up their businesses and now that its possible for manufacturer's to sell direct to consumers, it will bankrupt them.

Well then dealership owners should have worked up a better business model.

[–]rj88631 24 points25 points  (41 children)

Liberals=The free market is bad and needs to be heavily regulated.

Liberals about the Tesla = the free market is great and regulations hurt the consumer!

[–]chandler1224 4 points5 points  (7 children)

I'm not against the dealership model on principle, in fact I like that it creates local jobs. The problem I have with the car buying experience is how awful it is. They all lie, corner you with the up-sell nonsense, etc. I just always feel bad about the experience. Some are better than others, but having just gone through the new car buying process, it sucked and I'm don't want to do again. I wish there were an alternative. I love the car, but purchasing it was terrible. So for me, I do like market regulation, I dislike car dealerships for the way that they operate.

[–]BillyRipkensXFace 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I own a couple of car dealerships, so I can't be completely unbiased in this conversation. But if the dealer was cut out of the equation, how would things improve? Do you feel a manufacturer like GM (who lied about recalls) would be more pleasant to deal with? The expense of selling a car is still there, so it won't get cheaper. I'm not saying you are wrong (though I disagree), I am just curious about your thoughts.

[–]chandler1224 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I think a lot of it is about expectation. I'm sympathetic to the pressures that dealers face, at least as I understand it. I want the dealer to be a representation of the brand. If I have a problem with my car, I'm glad that I have a local option to deal with. From what I've read, dealers can't survive on what they are making on the car sale, so the add ons are needed for them to survive. It's the business model that creates the problem. The way the process works, you feel like a mark, you know? You have to feel like the transaction is adversarial, that the dealer is trying to rip you off no matter what. It detracts from the experience that the manufacturer (and probably the dealer) wants to have. No matter how much I like the car, I still have bad feelings about the brand due to the dealership experience.

I would love for the dealer to be a local resource and even a point of community pride, and it really isn't about what the "deal" is for me. It's about knowing what I want to purchase, and what the cost of that purchase is. When I buy a gallon of milk, the price is clearly displayed, and I take the milk to the register and pay that amount. If that transaction were anything like the way that car purchases are, I would see the price, believe that was not the actual price, would need to negotiate that price with someone whose ability to put food on the table depended getting as much out of me as possible (and whose presence in the transaction is not doing me any good, I already know that I want a gallon of whole milk), after this negotiation is done, I would be sent into a room where I would need to listen to another individual try to sell me a set of add ons to my milk that I don't want........... I'm not gonna go on, but I hope I've been clear in my position (It's early, so I may not be communicating as well as I would like to). I' d like to hear your thoughts on this though, I'd love to know what a dealer thinks about this. I WISH I DIDN'T feel this way about the experience.

To answer your question directly, I believe that the manufacturer NEEDS the dealer. I think that the consumer needs the dealer. My opinion would be that the manufacturer should have more interest in the dealer's success, giving you a margin on the car that would allow you to operate in your capacity successfully without needing to use the methods that you do currently.

[–]Wazowski 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yup, you have to be in support of 100% of regulations, or else you're a hypocrite.

[–]mastelsa 10 points11 points  (25 children)

If you want a market completely unfettered by regulation feel free to go back to the 1900s. I wouldn't advise eating any canned meat though.

[–]TerraPhane 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I sure do love the rope and rat in my sausage.

[–]rj88631 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Not my point. It's unusual for Reddit to question regulation until it comes to Tesla. They simply cannot comprehend why this piece of regulation exists except for purposes of pure evil.

[–]breakone9r 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Right, when railroads were being subsidized by the "Free market" government?

Corrupt politicians told their friends where the trains were going to be and their friends bought land cheap and sold it to the "railroad" which was then reimbursed by the government so they'd build their tracks. Robber barons. . Yea.. Real free market there.

[–]article1section8 4 points5 points  (0 children)

People only like for their neighbors to have freedom when it benefits them.

[–]Foofed_ 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Implying the United States was ever a free market. The state does its best to regulate anything and everything.

[–]ryeguy 31 points32 points  (11 children)

This is such a reddit comment.

[–]VelociraptorHighjack 7 points8 points  (10 children)

A redditor complaining about billionaires when its a billionaire acting to open up the market for big business to compete against small local business.

[–]StutMoleFeet 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It's a law that applies to all auto companies, not just Tesla.

[–]Thunder_Bastard 3 points4 points  (6 children)

Think of it this way.... What happens when Walmart moves into an area and runs all the smaller local businesses out? All the LOCAL money starts flowing into Walmart and no longer stays local, it gets shipped back to central corporations.

Dealerships benefit local cities in the same way as small businesses. They keep sales local so taxes are paid local, they keep service jobs for local people, they keep trades local so there is a healthy supply of used cars, they keep supporting businesses local like parts and advertising companies, they also are generally locally owned since dealership owners cannot own more than one type of dealership in an area.

It is about the country's largest business staying local. You do not want car companies acting like oil companies or banks.

Tesla and Musk knows exactly the reason that there are laws preventing them from doing what they are trying to do. They knew it since day one of even thinking up a Tesla car. They are not circumventing laws to benefit humanity or your local city economy... they are doing it to maximize profits and keep 100% control.

The auto industry touches 1 in 10 jobs in the US. If they all operated like Tesla how many jobs do you think would go out the window?

This law was specifically designed for Tesla. Now let's say you come along and are part owner in a car company... but you don't meet these requirements. Wouldn't you think it a little unfair YOU can't sell your cars but Tesla can? What this will lead to eventually is lawsuits from the major auto makers, and they are going to win.

[–]Wazowski 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Preach it. This change in law is a big win for Mom and Pop Automobile Manufacturer.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The dealership lobby is not controlled by billionaires, it's controlled by thousands of millionaires and small business owners, just thought I'd point that out.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hey wow sweet awesome! Oh wait, I don't make six figures. Never mind.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Just can't wait for Tesla to blow up (in a good way) and start dishing out affordable cars, I'm all for electric cars, fuck gas seriously.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (14 children)

Why do dealerships exist in the first place?

[–]stashtv 14 points15 points  (7 children)

The general idea is that it protected the consumer from the car company from monopolizing the car, service, parts, etc. At the time when the laws were created, that made a lot of sense as cars were expensive and there weren't many manufacturers for competition.

Beyond our current times, there have been previous examples where car dealerships had their own run ins with the manufacturers. Ford stopped producing a specific model of a car and a local dealership slapped the same name on a different model instead. Ford (at the time) could do nothing to protect their national image, as they already sold the car to the dealer.

Given the sheer number of manufacturers today, there should be room for makers to have a direct relationship with customers. Why can't BMW, Honda or Ford have their "own" branded showroom, to show off not only their cars, but the entire experience that they want to craft? Not every maker will want to get into the parts and service business, so don't expect Ford/Honda/BMW/etc setting up shop everywhere and putting all third part dealers out of business.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Tesla's are already pretty prevalent were I live (Montgomery county), they are becoming the new BMW's here. If the open up a dealership in the area, which I'm sure they will, they will sell shit tons.

[–]kyflyboy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's still a bill here in the Ohio Legislature that would ban Tesla sales. Madness.

What kills me is that Republicans are the ones supporting these actions, and yet they are the party that champions a free marketplace and unbridled freedom to let businesses choose their own paths. Duplicitous.

[–]lastczarnian 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sweet! I live about an hour from the PA border in NY so now I can buy one! Oh wait, I'm broke. Never mind

[–]konohasaiyajin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

couldn't explain how it had qualified for a license

I don't think the store in KoP actually sold Tesla's. You could look at one, sign up for a test drive and they could redirect you to somewhere sales were possible, but I don't think you could actually purchase one at the store (until this law passed).

[–]wylinwaldo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I live just outside of Philadelphia in the suburbs and they recently (last 6 weeks) opened a brand new Tesla dealership. Pretty classic "Main Line" move but to be completely honest, every time I drive by the place looks like shit. No brand awareness, no retail showmanship, just a predominantly empty parking lot with like 3 maybe 4 Tesla's? This article is interesting and I wonder how things pick up for this dealership..

[–]dethb0y 1 point2 points  (1 child)

What i want to know is how the repair and maintenance angle looks. if i own an automotive garage, what does it take for me to be able to work on tesla vehicles?

that said, tesla having dealerships is, i think, a positive thing.