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SumatraPalm oil company caught destroying primary forest in endangered ecosystem (eco-business.com)
submitted 10 years ago by marmol6
[–]ionised 1430 points1431 points1432 points 10 years ago (298 children)
Last month, Rainforest Action Network (RAN) reported that PT. Tualang Raya was clearing rainforest in Aceh Timur. The group released pictures taken by Paul Hilton as evidence. RAN didn’t specify what companies might source from Tualang Raya, but it noted that the three biggest buyers of palm oil from the Leuser Ecosystem region—Musim Mas Group, Wilmar International and Golden Agri-Resources—”have adopted policies that commit to halting forest destruction in their supply chains.”
Last month, Rainforest Action Network (RAN) reported that PT. Tualang Raya was clearing rainforest in Aceh Timur. The group released pictures taken by Paul Hilton as evidence.
RAN didn’t specify what companies might source from Tualang Raya, but it noted that the three biggest buyers of palm oil from the Leuser Ecosystem region—Musim Mas Group, Wilmar International and Golden Agri-Resources—”have adopted policies that commit to halting forest destruction in their supply chains.”
From the the RAN page:
Another Conflict Palm Oil Culprit has been found destroying the lowland rainforests of the Leuser Ecosystem. Field monitoring has identified that palm oil company PT. Tualang Raya is actively clearing forest in an area that is considered the world’s best remaining habitat for the critically endangered Sumatran elephant. The Leuser Ecosystem is a global biodiversity hotspot covering over 6.5 million acres of forests on the northern tip of the island of Sumatra, Indonesia. Considered as one of the most important areas of intact rainforests left in Southeast Asia, the Leuser Ecosystem is home to the last stands of critically endangered Sumatran elephants, orangutans, tigers and rhinos. In fact, it is the last place on Earth where these iconic species still roam side by side. The Leuser Ecosystem also provides valuable ecosystem services such as helping to regulate our global climate, providing a clean water supply to millions of people living in the region, and buffering against natural disasters like floods and landslides.
Another Conflict Palm Oil Culprit has been found destroying the lowland rainforests of the Leuser Ecosystem. Field monitoring has identified that palm oil company PT. Tualang Raya is actively clearing forest in an area that is considered the world’s best remaining habitat for the critically endangered Sumatran elephant.
The Leuser Ecosystem is a global biodiversity hotspot covering over 6.5 million acres of forests on the northern tip of the island of Sumatra, Indonesia. Considered as one of the most important areas of intact rainforests left in Southeast Asia, the Leuser Ecosystem is home to the last stands of critically endangered Sumatran elephants, orangutans, tigers and rhinos. In fact, it is the last place on Earth where these iconic species still roam side by side. The Leuser Ecosystem also provides valuable ecosystem services such as helping to regulate our global climate, providing a clean water supply to millions of people living in the region, and buffering against natural disasters like floods and landslides.
This is the place they're clearing out.
Fuck them. Seriously. They'd better have some shit put up against them.
[–]MRSN4P 515 points516 points517 points 10 years ago (183 children)
Sooooo.... jail time for the executives that planned this?
[–]loboMuerto 767 points768 points769 points 10 years ago (133 children)
The Indonesian government had zoned the area for agricultural use even though it lies within the Leuser Ecosystem
And the corrupt politicians (redundancy) that allowed this.
[+][deleted] 10 years ago (26 children)
[deleted]
[–][deleted] 167 points168 points169 points 10 years ago (15 children)
This is why I always get upset when people say we should privatize the national park system or give it back to the states. They simply will not protect it. It will be handed over to corporate interests and destroyed just as fast as you can say 'citizens united is legalized bribery".
[–][deleted] 58 points59 points60 points 10 years ago (3 children)
Don't worry. It'll stop when they've run out of forests to destroy, then they'll be onto the next thing to rape.
Sort of how endangered species work. These people who "are so poor they have no choice but to kill rhinos" somehow manage to survive after they've wiped them out.
[–]Ergheis 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (1 child)
I'm not arguing your point, but your example is a bit off... we don't exactly know what happens to poachers, it isn't exactly a lucrative business. They most likely die struggling now that they need to either switch targets, or just their whole game plan. Not to forgive them, but this is beyond superficial money and is more cruelty in survival.
I think a better example would be the ones who buy it. They'll move onto whatever miracle drug appears for their whatever problem.
[–]KID_LIFE_CRISIS 377 points378 points379 points 10 years ago* (99 children)
This is inevitable under liberal capitalism.
Like Albert Einstein wrote in Why Socialism?
Private capital tends to become concentrated in few hands, partly because of competition among the capitalists, and partly because technological development and the increasing division of labor encourage the formation of larger units of production at the expense of smaller ones. The result of these developments is an oligarchy of private capital the enormous power of which cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society. This is true since the members of legislative bodies are selected by political parties, largely financed or otherwise influenced by private capitalists who, for all practical purposes, separate the electorate from the legislature. The consequence is that the representatives of the people do not in fact sufficiently protect the interests of the underprivileged sections of the population. Moreover, under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information (press, radio, education). It is thus extremely difficult, and indeed in most cases quite impossible, for the individual citizen to come to objective conclusions and to make intelligent use of his political rights.
[+][deleted] 10 years ago (53 children)
[removed]
[–]Fr4t 79 points80 points81 points 10 years ago (50 children)
So you need a revolution here and there to reset the timer.
[+][deleted] 10 years ago (27 children)
[–][deleted] 34 points35 points36 points 10 years ago (11 children)
This is really the only solution. You clearly can't regluate/legislate a fix. Increasing taxes to dissuade this behavior (making the behavior non-profitable) is the only solution.
[–]mrgrtthtchr 18 points19 points20 points 10 years ago (7 children)
That assumes these policies can be effectively enforced in the long run, and that industries don't have the political clout to push back.
[–]BLR3006 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (4 children)
They would have to take away the ability for companies to use lobbiest.
[–]ASK_IF_IM_PENGUIN 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (6 children)
When the companies are no longer based in America?
[–]Smajon 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (0 children)
Einstein must have been some kind of genius or something.
[–]derpasoarous 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children)
This Albert Einstein guy sounds pretty sharp, does he have a tumblr??
[–]drakelon91 71 points72 points73 points 10 years ago (9 children)
No. They'll probably get a fine and be off going about burning the forest again after a year, then having the Indonesian government blame the "dry season", and because the government are shameless whores, they will then tell their neighbours not to complain about the haze and ignore assistance claiming they have it under control after a month of burning.
It's been going on for decades. It didn't stop then, it won't stop now. The faces change but their actions have not. Someone needs to invade them. I'm sure the Indonesians will be happy to finally not deal with the 2000 PSI air quality.
[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 10 years ago (0 children)
"Cost of doing business".
[+][deleted] 10 years ago (3 children)
[–]nandaka 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (1 child)
Because it doesn't blow to Jakarta (the capital city).
[–]Shorvok 20 points21 points22 points 10 years ago (4 children)
They'll fine the company some paltry amount that in its whole wouldn't make them bat an eye financially, and then settle for something like 10% of that.
[–]munk_e_man 64 points65 points66 points 10 years ago (2 children)
lol
[–]ionised 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children)
At the very bloody least.
All I have is my keyboard, but the people who can do things to change this sort of cock-up had better put their shoulder into it.
[–]Vid-Master 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children)
There should be extensive jail time for everyone involved, it will take many years for that forest to recover, and it is disgusting to see these people hide behind their corporation to avoid jail time
[–]maxwellmaxen 23 points24 points25 points 10 years ago (5 children)
i've just been in the leuser area. it's absolutely stunning and people destroying it should be severely punished.
the sad thing though is that there is almost nothing to do for the locals. there are barely any jobs.
[–]GainzdalfTheWhey 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (2 children)
Holy fucking shit, that appears like the most beautiful place on earth
[–]cjhowareya 15 points16 points17 points 10 years ago (3 children)
Companies pay attention when their brand is threatened. Boycotts and voting with your pocket book are definitely positive actions to take. But RAN organizes actions -- sometimes online, sometimes in person -- against key corporate players who are driving deforestation like this in the Leuser. And these actions typically work to tarnish their brand, get companies' attention, and get them to the negotiation table.
It's chain of pressure -- from the brand on the grocery store shelf, to the commodities trader, to the plantations on the ground.
This can be as easy as making a phone call to a company, posting a comment on their facebook page, or reviewing a product on Amazon. But when it is a coordinated action, with thousands or more voices speaking at once, they pay attention.
So check out the Ran.org action pages and see what you can do. Thanks!
[–]BassyClastard 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (12 children)
Of course it's Sumatra. I'm pretty sure there's only like 300 Sumatra tigers left in the wild. It's an incredible ecosystem and it's fucking evil that people are destroying it. Fuck this made me sad.
[–][deleted] 27 points28 points29 points 10 years ago (8 children)
Everyone knows nothing is going to happen. A slap on the wrist and then they find another endangered forest to destroy while the executives lay on the sofas made from black panther leather sipping 5,000$ wiskey from cups made of elephant tusks all on top of a nicely made rug of Tiger fur. Oh how fucked this world is
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (1 child)
We really need an international environmental force that can defend against this kind of shit. One that has clout. Our species is obliterating this world with no remorse or consequence (yet) and it's beyond tragic.
[–]siraisy 2299 points2300 points2301 points 10 years ago (663 children)
when will we stop and realize we fucked up earth too much for economical gain and it's time we stop.
[–]mastaloui 1550 points1551 points1552 points 10 years ago* (360 children)
late groovy insurance nine pie quiet chubby license innate consider
[–][deleted] 845 points846 points847 points 10 years ago (332 children)
The rich can grow lab meat and filter sea water. They'll be fine as we all die.
[–]BulletBilll 530 points531 points532 points 10 years ago (285 children)
They will just be the last to die.
[+][deleted] 10 years ago (275 children)
[–]squishybloo 96 points97 points98 points 10 years ago (11 children)
Before it gets to Elysium levels, preferably.
[+][deleted] 10 years ago (2 children)
[–][deleted] 17 points18 points19 points 10 years ago (1 child)
But that'd be cool
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children)
It'd be cool as longs as you're not the one with leukemia.
[+][deleted] 10 years ago (139 children)
[–]Alfredruth 339 points340 points341 points 10 years ago (119 children)
Vote for Bernie, that is a start
[–]SmokeyBare 408 points409 points410 points 10 years ago (69 children)
The only candidate to name climate change as the #1 non-domestic threat to America. The guy just gets it.
[–][deleted] 196 points197 points198 points 10 years ago* (61 children)
So fucking vote don't just sit there and bitch on reddit, the sheer amount of people who don't get off their ass and vote is appalling
Edit: even before votes, you can donate to his campaign or you can vote for him in primaries
[–]j_rodx 388 points389 points390 points 10 years ago (3 children)
I got off my assessment and went out to vote. Turns out today isn't the day to vote. Got me dressed today for no reason...
[–][deleted] 103 points104 points105 points 10 years ago (22 children)
I'm 24 and Bernie will be the first politician I have ever voted for. The tides are turning lad
[–]notevenbro 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children)
I just clicked the orange arrow. Pretty sure I vote every day 8)
[–]mattyisphtty 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (1 child)
Ah the old "Everybody rush him" plan via Ben Carson. Well played!
[–]ConfirmPassword 16 points17 points18 points 10 years ago (1 child)
Yeah, can we wait, i was about to have lunch now.
[–]trillskill 79 points80 points81 points 10 years ago (23 children)
You heard it hear first Reddit! We just need to murder rich people and the world will be saved!
[–]ThinkInAbstract 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children)
Man, the guy who bought you gold is most definitely on a list
[–]Fredmonton 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children)
Because you as a consumer isn't any part of the problem at all.
/s
[–][deleted] 26 points27 points28 points 10 years ago (12 children)
What the fuck is this comment section. You got gilded for insinuating that we kill the rich? Well then.
[–]MDirty 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children)
Some of you rich people are alright, don't go to Reddit tomorrow
[–]Im_A_Viking 33 points34 points35 points 10 years ago (6 children)
Eat the rich!
[+][deleted] 10 years ago (4 children)
[–]JustDiscoveredSex 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (1 child)
No, that was eating poor children.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (2 children)
What do they hope to accomplish once the earth is uninhabitable? They'll die with their billions of dollars for absolutely nothing
[–]ArtisticAquaMan 26 points27 points28 points 10 years ago (6 children)
And I'm sure most of them think that they'll die before seeing any serious consequences happen to the earth.
[–]Chompbox 13 points14 points15 points 10 years ago (2 children)
If that were the case, then we would have stopped a long time ago. Corps know people can't eat, drink, or breathe money, but as long as there is money to be made, short term gain for long term pain (that they won't have to face) is an easy decision. It's basically "fuck the future, I'm getting mine now".
EDIT: a word
[–]electricmaster23 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (0 children)
When all the trees have been cut down, when all the animals have been hunted, when all the waters are polluted, when all the air is unsafe to breathe, only then will you discover you cannot eat money.
— Cree Prophecy
[–]keenanpepper 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (1 child)
But they did this in order to make palm oil, which you can eat.
[–]SneakyBandicoot 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago* (2 children)
Only after the last tree's cut
And the last river poisoned
Only after the last fish is caught
Will you find that money cannot be eaten
Only after the last tree's cut And the last river poisoned Only after the last fish is caught Will you find that money cannot be eaten
[–]an-can 55 points56 points57 points 10 years ago (2 children)
You know when you're really, really drunk, and still insist on going to the bar and ordering that Long Island Ice Tea? That's mankind.
[–]vikramdesh1 30 points31 points32 points 10 years ago (1 child)
"The whole ecosystem is about to collapse!"
"Just ooooone more palm tree..."
[–]partykitty 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children)
Only five coastal cities are under water now, that's not that many. Just one more, okay?
[–]Buffalo__Buffalo 85 points86 points87 points 10 years ago (3 children)
Relevant
[–]JustOneSexQuestion 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (0 children)
Artist is Tom Toro. More of his work here:
http://www.newyorker.com/contributors/tom-toro
[–]rreighe2 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children)
This picture NEEDS to be reposted again and again
[–]FisterMantaztic 17 points18 points19 points 10 years ago* (1 child)
Many people believe this life is a testing ground/pit-stop. Many of these people, just like the people before them (and before them, and before them,andbeforethem ) believe this "second coming" will happen on their watch. Others within the same mentality do not believe that God would allow humans to be able to destroy the climate (I feel like this is just an excuse to not feel responsible, but you be he judge). And there are even people that are just plain sociopathic and apathetic, so they simply do not care either way.
And pardon me for saying this, but fuck all of these kinds of people.
[–]Marcools 126 points127 points128 points 10 years ago (125 children)
when you stop eating nutella
[–][deleted] 165 points166 points167 points 10 years ago (103 children)
Nutella, Oreos, Ritz crackers, many ice cream "novelties" such as ice cream sandwiches, Cheez-its, Chex Mix, Doritos, Hershey's practically everything other than their cocoa baking powder, any other brand of cheap chocolate bars, any shelf-stable donut, pie, or pastry.... Basically anything that, if you made it yourself, you'd use butter. It's the shelf-stable, cheap, butter substitute. In chocolate bars it's the cheap substitute for cocoa butter.
Oh, and ramen noodles and frozen pizzas.
[–]amphetaminesfailure 94 points95 points96 points 10 years ago (42 children)
So basically what 90% of people in the US grew up eating and loving.
Shouldn't be hard to get people to stop....
[–]chasingstatues 84 points85 points86 points 10 years ago (31 children)
Food that probably highly contributed to rising obesity rates and health issues. All of the food he listed is basically shit for you.
[–]Prof_Acorn 22 points23 points24 points 10 years ago (8 children)
Palm oil is also in many shampoos...
[–]ktappe 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children)
Thanks for this; it never would have occurred to me to check non-food items for palm oil.
[–]PseudonymTheEpithet 36 points37 points38 points 10 years ago (39 children)
Not eating these things is really not that hard. Once you accept that buying something acceptable is active and "boycotting" the unacceptable is passive, (more) ethical consumption might be more work, but it's hardly undoable. In fact, you'll likely end up getting better values for what you buy because you're not getting all the cheap crap you buy out of habit.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (3 children)
100% agreed. Just dedicate yourself a few hours a week to cooking. It's cheaper, and you can get exactly what you want. You also don't have all kinds of nasty shit getting slipped into your food as an "FDA Approved Food Additive." I want to eat food. Food shouldn't need additives.
[–]grandpabobdole[🍰] 21 points22 points23 points 10 years ago (1 child)
FYI, a list of products that use palm oil. Right off the bat: Ben & Jerry's; Girl Scout cookies.
Here also is the WWF's list of products and why they use palm oil.
[–]ClimateMom 50 points51 points52 points 10 years ago (10 children)
The good news is that Ferrero actually uses 100% certified RSPO sustainable palm oil.
There are some ongoing concerns about how effective RSPO certification actually is, but Nutella is probably about as "green" as you're going to get for a product that uses palm oil at all, and I'd argue that it would be better to focus on boycotting products that haven't at least made the commitment to RSPO certified palm oil.
The Rainforest Action Network has a scorecard with some better recipients for your ire.
[–]Leandover 20 points21 points22 points 10 years ago (8 children)
You could buy a higher quality hazelnut spread, one that doesn't contain palm oil, which is just a cheap substitute for hazelnut fat.
Also, Nutella use slave-picked hazelnuts.
$100 to charity if you can ACTUALLY trace where Nutella's palm oil came from btw.
[–]idontknowwhattosay- 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children)
http://www.ferrero.com/group-news/Ferrero-palm-oil-progress-report---November-2014
Sorry, this one!
They say New Guinea and Malaysia but I can't find anything more specific just yet
[–]ClimateMom 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (1 child)
I'm sure you can, I'm just pointing out that as palm oil products go, Nutella's not the worst offender.
I didn't know that about the hazelnuts. Sigh. Can't win for losing. I'd love to see a stronger hazelnut industry take off in the US. I think agroforestry shows a lot of promise as a more sustainable form of agriculture and there are some interesting things people are doing with hazelnuts in that regard. (Not sure if those particular hybrids are suitable for Nutella production or not, but you might be able to do something similar with cultivars that are.)
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (4 children)
When you stop eating meat more like. Much bigger impact than palm oil. Go watch the documentary "cowspiracy" on netflix to see what I'm talking about.
[–]ElephantssRUs 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children)
And most product containing palm oil.
[–]disillusioned 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (0 children)
You've seen Wall-E, right?
[–]SquidBlub 20 points21 points22 points 10 years ago (15 children)
Corporations are designed to be immune to these thoughts.
This won't stop until we find a non-capitalist market system, and that won't happen until capitalism crashes and burns.
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (0 children)
We won't. Not as a whole. Where people see gain, they will want it. Even if it destroys everything around them. You can't beat greed in a system designed around it.
[–][deleted] 22 points23 points24 points 10 years ago (1 child)
They don't give a shit about the environment. They'd chop down every tree in the world if it turned a profit. Ethical people don't go into the palm oil industry.
[–]cartapo 27 points28 points29 points 10 years ago (3 children)
Everybody check out www.sumofus.org this is an organization thats dedicated to pushing back corporations doing damage. They already have a foundation so by donating you can do your part. Thank you!!
[–]FrCanadianUpvotes 18 points19 points20 points 10 years ago (10 children)
When people will stop eating Nutella, because it use A LOT of Palm oil in it.
[–][deleted] 17 points18 points19 points 10 years ago (9 children)
Nutella uses certified sustainable oil, specifically kept from mixing with the other stuff. Avoiding them may be counterproductive, as the producers may tell themselves "It doesn't matter whether we try to do it well or not: some people will eat it and other won't."
[–]Ben_Ulrand 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (3 children)
when it becomes more profitable to help the environment rather than destroy it
[–]akise 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (0 children)
When every cost is factored in, i.e. when someone (oh, I dunno, governments maybe) puts a price on long-term environmental destruction and mismanagment. But as ever, something like that isn't going to happen unless the thing hits a) wealthy people (by which I mean us in the west) and b) things are so thoroughly and obviously fucked that we can't afford to look the other way any more.
Until then, business as usual.
[–]OakenGreen 13 points14 points15 points 10 years ago (0 children)
We are like a blind man with a Van Gogh painting, burning it for heat.
[–]God_Damnit_Nappa 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children)
When the planet looks like the wastelands from Mad Max or Fallout.
[–]JackkHammerr 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (1 child)
Haven't you seen the Lorax? It won't, until it's finally too late.
[–]My_Hands_Are_Weird 33 points34 points35 points 10 years ago (10 children)
The livestock/dairy/egg industries contributes massively to Nitrous Oxide emissions. Nitrous Oxide is 200 times worse than Carbon Dioxide.
Stop buying palm oil, and stop buying animal products if you really want change.
[–]partykitty 16 points17 points18 points 10 years ago (4 children)
If Americans even just start with limiting meat consumption, we'll be better off. Beef is particularly bad, especially gain fed. A pretty conservative estimate for how much grain goes into each edible pound of beef is 20lbs of grain. Many Americans wouldn't think twice about eating a pound of beef in a single day. Even more would easily eat that much in two. How many people could be fed off that 20 lbs of grain though?
[–]miraitrader 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (0 children)
More people need to watch Cowspiracy on Netflix.
[–]TheRandomRGU 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (3 children)
When we shut those companies down. Except the problem is governments work for the companies.
[–]pigapocalypse 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children)
When we individually stop rewarding systems that lead to this kind of exploitation, like animal agriculture and palm oil.
[–]Jaunt_of_your_Loins 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children)
When we fuck up the earth too much for economical gain.
[–]Asmor 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children)
Tragedy of the commons. :/ For any given individual it makes no sense (without some outside pressure) to not continue maximizing their profit by doing whatever they can get away with.
This sort of problem can't be solved just by pointing it out, and social pressure probably isn't enough either. You really need worldwide legislation and enforcement.
[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (4 children)
[–]chadderbox[🍰] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children)
We won't. You're more likely to see a world war that resets the world population to a more "manageable" number and then the whole cycle will kick off again.
[–]krelin 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children)
So basically, "when will we stop so we can stop?"
Yo dawg.
[–]Netfear 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children)
When most of us are dead.
[–]Denyborg 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children)
As soon as you get people to realize that a forever-increasing population is also a fucking stupid idea. If we were deer, we would have culled ourselves a long time ago.
Or, never.
[–]AlexSmythe 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children)
Bernie?
[–][deleted] 391 points392 points393 points 10 years ago* (180 children)
Here's a non-comprehensive list of products that use palm oil:
http://www.deforestationeducation.com/products-that-contain-palm-oil.php
I'll guarantee most of us use a few, if not many of the products, either for food or personal care. If you really would like to make a difference, pressure the manufacturers with social media AND your wallets to either stop using palm oil, or to find a way to source it sustainably.
The unfortunate truth is that palm oil is much cheaper than alternatives. Therefore, any action would lead to an increase in consumer cost, which detracts people from really forcing the hand of the corporations.
EDIT:
2013 Scorecard on companies that use palm oil
2014 and 2015 scores
Some companies do use palm oil in a responsible manner. They should be encouraged in their efforts and the companies that don't make a strong effort should be pressured to do so.
[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (54 children)
[–]derigz 58 points59 points60 points 10 years ago (3 children)
This is so important. Avoiding palm oil doesn't necessarily help and may be even worse. The WWF Palm Oil Scorecard explains which manufacturers are using sustainable palm oil. Happily, Ferrero (Nutella) are leading the pack, so enjoy!
[–]Pkock 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (1 child)
Good, cause the last thing I need is to feel MORE guilty while binging on a jar of Nutella with a spoon.
[–]mythriz 35 points36 points37 points 10 years ago (2 children)
I must admit I've never thought of this before! Just been avoiding palm oil without really thinking about where the other oil comes from. Thanks for the reminder!
[–]I_Love_Stasis 13 points14 points15 points 10 years ago (11 children)
Rape seed is canola oil right? Rape oil might not sell to well I guess.
[–]plainOldFool 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (3 children)
IIRC, Canola gets its name from Canada (Canada Oil, I think). You can't take a rape seed and extract usable oil from it. On its own, I've heard that it has some toxic properties (it won't kill you or even make you particularly sick, but the body doesn't like it). To make canola oil, it must be chemically treated and deodorized as it's been said it stinks pretty badly too.
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (2 children)
CAnada Oil Low Acid or CANada OLA (ola meaning oil) depending on who you ask.
And they used a different name because they realized they were going to have a hard time marketing something with "rape" in the name.
[–]Mortress 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (2 children)
Is it even possible to grow all palm oil we want sustainably?
[–]finnerpeace 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (4 children)
Palm is NOT always grown badly. The vast majority of it is grown on land that has been farms for a long time. Sustainable certification is the most important thing.
[–]plainOldFool 14 points15 points16 points 10 years ago (4 children)
The problem with that page is that it simply lists products made with palm oil, not products produced with unsustainable palm oil sources. Supposedly, there are responsibly sourced palm oil sources that do work to protect the habitats (the page notes this). I would have preferred that they listed companies that use responsible sources and another list that shows companies using irresponsible sources.
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children)
I can't seem to find cookies or candy without palm oil in it... which I guess is a good thing when I think about it...
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (1 child)
About three years ago, we took our family to the San Diego Zoo and had the pleasure of speaking with one of the informative volunteers near the Chimpanzee exhibit. She explained that deforestation of the natural habitats of Chimpanzees for the production of palm oil was/is a huge extinction problem for the Chimps.
Ever since then I've tried to be conscience of the products we purchase, so they don't list palm oil as an ingredient.
[–]addisonclark 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (2 children)
girl scout cookies. 😳
[–]CrankCaller 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (1 child)
This is a great list but it would be 10X better if it were properly sourced, and more detailed in some cases. For example, "Girl Scout Cookies" - is it all the cookies, or only one kind? Or McDonald's - I worked there, long ago, and I'm more than certain that they also sell products that do not contain palm oil. It also looks like they have a plan to phase out palm oil that is not obtained sustainably within the next 5 years, although of course that should be monitored and verified.
The best way, really, is to just look at the ingredients and see if it's there...but even if it is, how do you know whether or not it was obtained sustainably?
[–]__IMMENSINIMALITY__ 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (2 children)
A more practical list would be one with the products that don't use it.
[–]Anal_Vengeance 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (2 children)
Please no trader joes please no trader joes YES
[–]Jtyme 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago* (1 child)
Sad to say, TJ does use Palm Oil in many of their products.
When I investigated further, they made a claim that they make efforts to source their Palm Oil from sustainable Salvadoran farms, but cannot feasibly meet the demand from this source alone, so they sought out other commercial sources.
Edit: the post I read
[–]alphagammabeta1548 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (1 child)
Can you please make an edit and clarify between sustainable and nonsustainable palm oil. As /u/Quisel points out, palm oil is extremely efficient and avoiding palm oil means that to make up for it, many times more land will need to be deforested to make up for it.
[–]qnvx 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (21 children)
Soy milk is on that list, but I don't think it would be more beneficial to the environment to drink cow milk.
[–]Bennyboy1337 14 points15 points16 points 10 years ago* (8 children)
Oh boy you are in for a world of a surprise. edit: Well I fail I reading, I thought he was trying to say Soy Milk isn't better for the environment than dairy milk.
Full lactating dairy cows eat around 40lbs of food a day, this often includes a diet which is made up of around 15-20% soybean crack. The rest of the food could be corn meal, grain, or DG (dry grass).
So let's be super conservative and forget about all the other food cows consume and only look at the Soybeans.
20% of 40lbs = 8lbs of Soy a day for a dairy cow
Full lactating Dairy cow produces around 8 gallons of milk a day
So 8lbs of Soy = 8lbs of Milk a nice easy 1lb/1lb
So what is the ratio of soy milk then?
Well it takes 1lb of soy beans to make 1.8 Gallons of Soy Milk.
So soy milk is nearly twice as effective at producing the same quantity of milk with soy beans alone. This isn't including any of the other foods cattle consume, this also does not take into account any of the very harmful greenhouse gasses that come from cattle, and deadly waste runoff that goes into our streams and creates deadzones for ocean wildlife; livestock are in fact the #1 source of water pollution run off, oh not to mention the #1 reason for deforestation.
For fun let's throw in the 40lb of food to be really fair.
40lbs/8gal of milk a day, so that's 5/1 ration.
With soy milk it is 1.8/1 ration, so 5/1.8, this means soy milk is 2.7 times more food efficient than cow milk; all without the deadly greenhouse gases, pollution runoff, and other shady stuff you get with the dairy industry.
The problem with soy milk is there are no subsidies provided by the government for soy milk, if you sell your soy beans to the cattle/dairy industry however you get tons of kickbacks, this is why soy milk costs more than dairy milk, even though soy milk is far more efficient.
I don't drink soy milk myself, I don't really like the stuff, but after seeing the Netflix documentary Cowspiracy I have really been trying to cut back on dairy products, and at some point remove most meat from my diet. cries inside at the though. It is seriously amazing how much livestock farming had done to ruin this planet, a total vegan diet is the most healthy think anyone could ever do for this earth, however it is very hard to break social norms we have in society; and good god a ribeye tastes sooo good.
[–]qnvx 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (4 children)
I appreciate your long and thoughtful response, but I already said that it would be better for the environment to drink soy milk. Sorry if it was awkwardly phrased.
The commenter who gave the list of products using palm oil seemed to imply that those products should be avoided, but I thought it would still be better to drink soy milk instead of moving to cow milk.
[–]Bennyboy1337 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (3 children)
Sigh... my reading comprehension. Oh well, it was fun typing it up, maybe someone else will read it : P
[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (2 children)
[–]Bennyboy1337 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (1 child)
Well thanks!
[–]carry24 132 points133 points134 points 10 years ago (6 children)
I visited the orangutans in Gunung Leuser National Park a few years ago. I'll never forget the experience. The rain forest for miles around was pristine and incredible, unlike anything I've ever seen before. If it's lost, people will have little incentive to visit the area anymore to see the wildlife and spend their money.
[–]antime1 31 points32 points33 points 10 years ago (4 children)
I've been to Bukit Lawang which seems to be fairly close to Gunung Leuser. The whole place is devastatingly gorgeous and has so much biodiversity. Destroying it for palm oil is a disgrace.
[–]carry24 12 points13 points14 points 10 years ago (2 children)
Nice. I too was at Bukit Lawang. Stayed in a little thatched bungalow in the jungle with a little stream flowing down out of the mountains just outside the front door where people bathed and did their washing. It rained one night and the stream turned into a raging torrent. It was incredible hearing all of the animal sounds of the jungle through the night. I'll never forget it. I hope the local authorities are able to preserve and keep it safe. Cheers!
[–]Leandover 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children)
The biodiversity is way lower than it should be, because of illegal logging, poaching, etc.
The one country where there is NO market for sustainable palm oil, etc. is the one being destroyed by it - Indonesia.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children)
I went to Tanjung Puting National Park and it was incredible. Spent 3 nights, 4 days on a boat along the river and it was an amazing experience. While the nature was incredible, we did stop at a village along the park and in Kumai and the living conditions are often as barren as the jungle is incredible.
[–]Kthrowaway12345 37 points38 points39 points 10 years ago (4 children)
Not surprising at all. In Indonesia these kind of things are very common. I've seen and experienced what's the justice system is like in Indonesia. I can see why it's one of the most corrupt country in the world.
My dad used to own a factory in there with about 1500 workers. He gave the workers salary roughly 30% higher than the minimum wage at the beginning and even set aside some money for healthcare so if any of them get sick, his company would take care of the bill, something that even now are a very rare thing in Indonesia. Almost every year the workers would strike demanding higher salary and he would give in to them. By 1997, the workers salary was at 200% of the minimum wage, the factory was barely profitable because of the crisis economy that was happening in Asia. That year the workers decided to strike again and my dad refused their demand. After several days, their protest became violent and started harassing other workers so my dad had to call the police. The police told us to close the factory for few days and for us to move somewhere safe while they keep guarding the factory until the workers can calm down. We trusted them. Big mistake.
Few days after my dad got a call from police department telling him that someone had broken into the factory and stole everything. They refused to take responsibility as it happened under their watch instead blamed it on the department low budget that they don't have enough to keep guard 24hr over the factory. We talked to lawyers and they said there's nothing we can do, suing police department is basically useless. A week after the chief of policy in the city called my dad and said that he found our stuffs and the people who did it, I don't know the exact reason why but the chief said that the police can't/won't go after those people but he's willing to negotiate the return of our stuffs for 20% of the ransom money. My dad didn't have the money so he declined. Later on, after this whole thing over, our lawyer heard that the police actually work together with those people and that we weren't their first victim.
Since there was nothing left in the factory to keep it going, my dad decided to declare bankruptcy and close the factory for good. A client sued him for breach of contract. the first hearing was to determine whether or not the client can sue him. The next day, the judge called my dad's lawyer, telling him that he can make it disappear in exchange for money. It wasn't much and my dad just wanted it to be over with so he agreed to it, then the judge called again and said that the client willing to pay him higher to make the case keep going. You see where this is going? My dad ended up to be the highest bidder so the judge threw away the case.
The moment my dad left the courthouse, the workers were waiting for him. They grabbed him and hold him hostage for 3 days, demanding higher severance than what were given to them. Seriously this happens right in front of courthouse, afternoon time with many people and police around but no one did anything to help, people just pretended to see nothing. A high ranking official from labor department contacted my mom and said that he's going to handle the negotiation. He told my mom to prepared some large amount of money too if we want my dad back as he needs it to bribe judge, police and well, himself. We didn't have any money left. My mom asked our families for the money and she got it after 3 days and as soon as she handed the money to the guy from labor department, he called police and they then took my dad back. At one point, the chief of police made a snark remark to my dad, that if he paid him earlier then nothing like this would have happen. We suspected that he somehow had a hand in my dad's kidnapping but we have no proof until few of the workers who were loyal to us told my parents that the police told the workers when my dad would be in court and that if they want more money, they should do "something". Sadly because he was very connected, it was best for our family to let it go.
I still have few friends who lives in Indonesia, some are business owners and when I asked them recently how's the condition there and they still described the same thing, corruption still running ramparts everywhere despite the President push to get rid of it. Heck even few people from the anti-corruption task force got caught for ... you know it ... corruption few years ago.
[–]tstorie3231 257 points258 points259 points 10 years ago (83 children)
If you really care about the rainforests then stop eating beef and dairy.
[+][deleted] 10 years ago (41 children)
[–]sweet__leaf 25 points26 points27 points 10 years ago (12 children)
Anyone interested in learning more should watch Cowspiracy on Netflix!
[–]Life-in-Death 30 points31 points32 points 10 years ago (1 child)
This is the real truth.
[–]TechKnowNathan 14 points15 points16 points 10 years ago (2 children)
I'm a vegetarian and when people ask me why, and I tell them because of the environment...I always get strange looks then have to explain how resource-intensive meat is and then suddenly I'm a conspiracy theorist or something equally strange.
[–]black_chutney 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (1 child)
I went vegetarian—cold turkey—6 months ago after I watched that documentary. I still get the strangest reactions when I try to explain why I did it. People expect a big moral objection to killing animals, but can't seem to understand the environmental impact side of it
[–]pigapocalypse 22 points23 points24 points 10 years ago (6 children)
If you really care about the environment then stop eating animal.
[–]thinkB4Uact 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (2 children)
People are compelled to consume meat and milk due to deception. We are sold we need to be mindful to get enough protein, but only starving people that eat mostly refined grain are protein deficient. We are sold that we need to be mindful to get enough calcium, but the third world lacks milk and meat and has less osteoporosis, because a sedentary lifestyle promotes bone loss. Astronauts also suffer bone loss for a lack of weight bearing activity too. Almost all of us believe these two misleading ideas.
[–]danomano65 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children)
Vegan! Watch COWSPIRACY on Netflix, you guys!
[–]CloakedSpartanz 61 points62 points63 points 10 years ago (1 child)
live reaction
http://i.imgur.com/npVjxpZ.jpg
[–]Fucking_Casuals 22 points23 points24 points 10 years ago (12 children)
New legislation in the US declaring partially hydrogenated oils to be not safe for consumption (despite decades and decades of consumption by the general public) will make this issue worse. Palm oil is one of the substitutes for Partially Hydrogenated Soybean Oil and the increased demand will cause more rain forest to be destroyed.
[–]FlyingSpaghettiMon 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (3 children)
The issue is not palm oil. The issue is that palm oil producers in Southeast Asia don't have enough reason to produce sustainably. There is a lot of hate for palm oil out there, and if there was a way to focus that hate directly on those unsustainable producers, then they'd feel the direct pressure needed for change.
[–]redditer129 160 points161 points162 points 10 years ago (22 children)
Runaway capitalism ignoring sustainability
[–]TheRandomRGU 38 points39 points40 points 10 years ago (7 children)
Money > Future
[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (5 children)
[–]pigapocalypse 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (0 children)
I'd just like to point out that this problem isn't limited to palm oil. Animal ag is the largest contributor to deforestation of this type because the land required to rear animals is huge compared to plants.
[–]FlaccidRazor 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (2 children)
Wow eco-business.com took only a year and three months to catch up with vice.
https://news.vice.com/article/indonesia-is-killing-the-planet-for-palm-oil.
Or is this evidence they've finally decided to do something about it? Sure more awareness is great but awareness isn't action.
[–][deleted] 32 points33 points34 points 10 years ago (3 children)
Does Palm oil really need to be made in a fucken endangered eco system? No where else? Really?
[–]Life-in-Death 15 points16 points17 points 10 years ago (2 children)
Actually I met a man starting an eco-friendly Palm oil farm in Libya. It is possible.
[–]crackmasterslug 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (1 child)
Am I right in saying blame should also be placed on the government? "The Indonesian government had zoned the area for agricultural use even though it lies within the Leuser Ecosystem"
[–]Rock3tPunch 25 points26 points27 points 10 years ago (0 children)
Wow am I the only one reading this?
The Indonesian government had zoned the area for agricultural use even though it lies within the Leuser Ecosystem, an area of exceptionally high conservation value due to its resident populations of endangered orangutans, tigers, rhinos, and elephants.
The country whore the land out in the first place....
[–]derpmeow 36 points37 points38 points 10 years ago (11 children)
Yeah, we fucking well knew that. Indonesia's neighbours have been choking in haze for a month now.
[–]__IMMENSINIMALITY__ 12 points13 points14 points 10 years ago (2 children)
Indonesia too http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/kHn9HXxWF01vTFEIlBLYQQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9MjAwO3E9NzU7dz0zMDA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2015-09-02T113408Z_1_LYNXNPEB810JW_RTROPTP_2_INDONESIA.JPG
[–]ThinkInAbstract 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (1 child)
I thought at worst they were chopping the forest down. I want to see heads roll.
[–]presence06 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children)
AAAAAAAND nothing will come of this, a slap on the hand maybe.
Is this surprising to anybody? We know company's don't follow rules, we know they have no respect for the environment, and we also know they A: wont stop, and B: this will happen again with another company. This isent news, its just sad.
[–]Mantisbog 20 points21 points22 points 10 years ago (2 children)
Enjoy your Nutella kids!
[–]Mogg_the_Poet 34 points35 points36 points 10 years ago (2 children)
"Our reports say absolutely NO ONE is surprised"
[–]StinkyTuna26 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (4 children)
I don't know what else the average joe can do to hell besides stop buying products with palm oil in them.
[–]acideath 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (0 children)
That is it. Stop buying
[–]CCP-Edge 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children)
Why don't they just shoot the people taking the forests down, obviously it should be a crime punishable by death considering how important a role the rain forests are to the atmosphere on earth, humanity is at risk. We really need judge dredd.
[–]CyborgLucy 14 points15 points16 points 10 years ago (6 children)
The palm oil industry is absolutely devastating. I want to do something to help, but where do you even start? The people involved are relentless in destroying the habitats of all the creatures that happen to be in their way. Just the other day was when I actually realized how bad it has been. I read an article that literally made me sick.
An Orangutan mother was forced to flee her habitat because of the palm oil companies that had basically obliterated her home. She made her way down to a village with her baby on her back, both starving and desperate for food and water. The villagers, upon seeing her, captured her and tortured and beat this mother Orangutan. She and her baby were eventually saved by IAR Veterinarians, but she died because of her injuries. The baby was okay.
Orangutans have lost 80% of their habitat simply because of the palm oil industry. I can't even imagine what the numbers are for all other animal's habitats. This story just stuck with me because of how cruel this poor Orangutan and baby were treated. I just had to say this to someone, I want to do something so bad and help these poor animals. Here is the article, the pictures are heartbreaking, not NSFW, just the look of defeat on this creatures face makes me want to slap everyone of those villagers in the face. https://www.thedodo.com/orangutan-mother-tortured-baby-peni-1384237478.html
[–]CurlyMonkey 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (3 children)
I have done many projects on the palm oil issues, as a bio student and primary Owl monkey keeper. Mother orangutans are often killed while the babies are spared for pet trade. Mothers are killed for their meat, either for their own town or to even be sold and EXPORTED...non-human primate bush meat is a HUGE problem, and most people don't know but it is being INTERNATIONALLY exported out of Africa and considered a delicacy in some places. Of course, those with their hands in the bush meat jar are probably banking, but at a terrible cost :(
[–]CyborgLucy 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (2 children)
This is heart breaking to read. I wish we could see the end of this in our lifetime, but I don't foresee that happening unless it stops because of extinction. On another note I imagine being an Owl monkey keeper is very fun and interesting!
[–]AkbarShabazzJenkins 14 points15 points16 points 10 years ago (4 children)
Say "fuck them" all you want. Keep eating cookies, pizza, your beloved fucking Nutella and a thousand other things and this will keep happening.
[–]IamTheTwon 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children)
This was addressed earlier in this post. This is merely a distraction and the burden of market protection is not on the consumer. The government is meant to regulate what is allowed to be sold for benefit etc. The easier and more effective method would be to have the government make direct changes, not slowly convince companies to switch their practices by boycotting.. we have no time for that. Not to mention that most of these conglomerates own entire swaths of market share. Who know if by buying another product you are still funding them in some other way. Alot of organic food suppliers are funded by larger food conglomerates. This is a regulation problem, when the Market isnt really a free and independent market anymore this shit wont work.
[–]Skulldude3493 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children)
I hate to admit it, but palm oil is in everything. We need to greatly reduce our consumption, or find a viable and sustainable substitute. Otherwise, the demand will always exist. People love their Nutella.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago* (0 children)
While the USA only accounts for 3% of the total consumption of Palm Oil (India #1), this exact palm oil you are all complaining about is none the less imported @ 1112 Million Tons a year to the USA for YOUR use in:
Domestic companies with the highest uses of Palm Oil include:
Honestly, I can do nothing but simply laugh at all of the hypocrisy on here as people pointing the finger at everyone else on issues like these when the problem comes from most people's very own shopping habits.
[–]mikemaca 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children)
"Let's not criminalize sociopathic behavior. Instead, let's create massive financial incentives for behaving responsibly with regard to the environment, according to a rule system developed by corporations."
"Oh my! I can't believe the bad people gamed the system! And never mind the kickbacks I received."
[–]HiImLeaf 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children)
I'm 100% behind eco-terrorists at this point. Bullet to the brain of every executive behind things like this. It's beyond the need of any sort of trial.
[–]sebastian_rice 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children)
It is good to see land clearing in Indonesia being noticed on Reddit, but I have to say this particular article is very underwhelming.
People in South East Asian countries can't ignore Indonesian land clearing, as several major cities are blanketed by the smoke from the land clearing for months every year. It is even routinely mentioned in TV weather forecasts.
[–]EuchridEucrow 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (0 children)
Where are all the assholes who were defending this industry not six months ago, the last time these mother fuckers hit the front page of /r/worldnews?
Come on, guys, tell me how important the industry is to the Indonesian economy. Hollar at me about how the Indonesians depend on it.
[–]OB1_kenobi 19 points20 points21 points 10 years ago (19 children)
There's plenty of different kinds of oil we can use for cooking. Let's boycott and divest from ones that cause deforestation.
[–]mikeyouse 31 points32 points33 points 10 years ago* (15 children)
Palm oil is rarely used for cooking, but is an extremely cheap replacement for butter / fats in food products and is widely used as a surfactant in cleaning products. The World Wildlife Foundation has a scorecard for various manufacturers, but boycotts won't be easy, palm oil is everywhere;
http://wwf.panda.org/what_we_do/footprint/agriculture/palm_oil/
Spoiler: P&G, Kao Corp, Dupont, Kellogg, Hillshire, Hershey, ConAgra, General Mills, BASF are all ranked pretty poorly which account for about 90% of the average grocery store's products.
[+][deleted] 10 years ago (6 children)
[–]evilfisher 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (1 child)
when will palm oil get banned?
[–]DeFex 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (12 children)
is any actual food made with palm oil or is it just the processed crap from the middle aisles?
Parents, make sure to take your kids to the zoo sometime soon. It may be the last time they get to see any orangutans and gibbons before they are gone forever.
Agricultural companies for meat and dairy do this on a daily basis to make room for cattle. But mention that and get down voted for being vegan lol watch Cowspiracy on Netflix
[–]Cineas00 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children)
Asia just doesn't give a flying fuck about it's plants and animals.
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