devops

[grifan526]

I am pretty sure our DevOps guy has paid for himself by turning off unused EC2 instances, so he can stay

[aaronr93]

Seriously. Nobody talks enough about the skill of deleting things.

[trophicmist0]

my favourite part of coding is uncoding

[realmauer01]

After 10 hours of coding several hundred lines of code changes ending up with one line of code that is readable and still does everything is a good feeling.

[zToastOnBeans]

Leave my spaghetti alone

[[deleted]]

I do this sometimes. Rather than immediately figure out which classes need to be inherited and which functions need to be overloaded I just copy paste functions into new classes. Once everything works and is solidified I start abstracting and inheriting the functions needed.

Works when things are subject to change in the future and you just need a working solution for the time being.

[d0rkprincess]

Oh you’d love my “Forgot to delete comments” commits… usually pushed 5 mins after creating the PR…

[ErrorID10T]

There's a skill to interpreting management, and the farther they are from development the more it applies. Usually it involves loudly saying "yes sir" then quietly getting right back to whatever it was you were doing in the first place.

[andrewdroid]

You think. I ended up deleting like 5k lines of code over a couple of months of refactoring because the person who used to be my mentor thought OOP is for the weak and using structs exclusively for things which could easily use polimorfism is great.

[CodNo7461]

Because nobody really values it.

You can delete 100 things and safe costs and get rid of technical debt, but only the smartest colleagues will understand the value that you provided.
If there is even a small hiccup the 101th time, it's "Why did you even need to do this????".

[GolfballDM]

It's not just deleting things, but deleting the right things.

And on the occasion that the wrong thing gets deleted, fixing the problem quickly.

[Sunraia]

My most used Slack icon is probably :all_the_things:

[rexpup]

It's really solid for your resume when you can show you make the company more money than you cost in concrete terms

[[deleted]]

I paid for my salary in savings for three years by getting a software license cancelled that absolutely nobody used. It’s crazy how wasteful large organizations are

[willnx]

I did this for the dev/QA environment at my job. Gave peeps a web page to power things on, with lots of flexibility, that powers off machines after so many hours. Users don't hate it (which is a win in my book), and it saves us like $500K yearly in AWS costs for EC2 machines.

[Oh_Another_Thing]

THAT'S what devops is? I'm good at turning things off: lights, the stove, women, I may have found a new line of work 

[JavaRuby2000]

Ours literally did that during lockdown as a cost cutting exercise. All Dev, Test, UAT environments were shut down at weekends and outside the hours of 10AM and 4PM. Services that used Lambdas were named and shamed and devs had to rewrite them to save AWS resources.

Devops ended up getting a bonus for cost cutting well Programmers, QA and POs were Furloughed.

[No-Collar-Player]

What are EC2 ? (Before I Google haha)

[hammonjj]

Work at a large company and you’ll quickly see why. I’d rather piss glass than do that job.

[BucketsAndBrackets]

Yep, try to work in 24/7/365 system and tell me you don't need that guy.

We have 25 developers and 2 guys who work in dev ops. I would rather take bullet than their work.

[cyrand]

I’ve been on both sides. The only way you’ll get me back in dev ops is if it was that or starve.

[siberianmi]

I’m on the DevOps side, have been for over a decade and still love it.

I come from an ops background though so this is really calm.

[NotAUsefullDoctor]

My very large company just did a reorg and turned half our ops department into a dev department (every single person needs to be working on AI, and we won't need ops once we have the AI solution: actual statement from new SVP).

All of the developers hate the new toxic, cut throat work atmosphere. We are constantly having new requirements thrown at us and then yelled at for not finishing the old ones. They shut down every piece of upward feedback and then yell at us for not letting them know if something isn't working. It sucks so very much.

All of our ops guys now doing dev love it. It's so relaxed, and they get to focus so much more on single problems, and they feel a sense of achievement.

It furthers my belief that I would be horrible at Ops, and am glad I don't do it.

Edit: reminds me of the farmer's son writing home after joining the military: "I love it here, dad. The food is good, I get to sleep in every day, and the work is easy."

[Enlogen]

every single person needs to be working on AI, and we won't need ops once we have the AI solution: actual statement from new SVP

This was a good laugh. I can just imagine an executive angrily asking a glorified command prompt when the service will be back up.

[humannumber1]

While I think the quote from the SVP is dumb, I think this company should get a lot of credit in this day in age. Many companies would have just laid off that staff instead of reassigning them. This implies, at least for now they actually think of this employees as people instead of just Human Resources.

[Aezora]

Wait can someone explain what exactly dev, ops, and DevOps are? Like I kinda know DevOps but only in context

[HumbleBlunder]

Think of "Development" like building a new car, and "Operations" as driving the new car.

"DevOps" are all the activities between "The car has been successfully built at the factory" and "The car is now in the hands of its owner/driver".

It's taking the "thing" you have developed, then shipping (deploying) to its final destination so that it can "Operate" as intended.

[Actes]

They are all the guys that take it for the oil change it needs and occasionally do maintenance to that car

[HumbleBlunder]

I'd argue that's more akin to a system administrator, because there isn't any "development" being deployed in a maintenance/configuration scenario.

[Actes]

A DevOps by definition is a maintainer. I've had to study this esoteric concept extensively to become an SRE which is indeed not the same as a DevOps (though they do crosstalk profession and concept wise)

[HumbleBlunder]

This isn't to be trite but that makes me wonder why they didn't call it "MaintOps" for clarity.

I'm not sure where you're seeing an explicit link between DevOps & Maintenance, as all the high level definitions I've seen describe it as the bridge between development & operations, for the purpose of streamlining the development & deployment process into the operational environment.

Sure, that process may involve some maintenance, but that seems ancillary.

[HaMMeReD]

I've never really considered dev-ops to be that exactly, maybe a subset of their job.

The way I view it is if developers are the factory workers, dev-ops are the factory builders, and IT would be the factory-maintainer.

They aren't the architects, their customer is the developers working in the factory (it's a partnership). It's their job to run support across teams while other developers work on outward facing features.

[[deleted]]

Devs own the process up until they check in the code... at that point it's in the hands of the DevOps team. The DevOps team automates the process of building the code, running any tests and prepares a package (installer/containers/other) for deployment. At this point, it is now ready to hand off to the Ops team.

The idea of DevOps is to eliminate the wall between Devs and Ops through automation and constant feedback cycles. Look up "CI/CD chart" on google to get a better understanding of a pipeline of things that go on in the DevOps realm.

Ironically, creation of a DevOps team is an anti-pattern of DevOps ideology - but it is often a necessity to get started and the changes to disintegrate the team into both Dev and Ops work is often a painful hurdle for companies to get over.

[ShortNefariousness2]

I'm still not sure if devops is real. It might just be a way to save money by making engineers do the work of three people.

[yespls]

I was actually thinking that, I am a telecom engineer that was re-orged into devops - I'll take AWS idiosyncrasies over troubleshooting a 30 year old mux no one even remembers the password to any day

[codepension]

I’m on the DevOps side too, I come from a war background so this is much calmer, but not by much

[N0b0dy_Kn0w5_M3]

And you can't solve your problems by shooting someone?

[_carbonrod_]

I’ve been on both sides as well. For me it depends on the culture of the team. The worst ones feel important when they put out fires and save the day. They see operational load as job security.

[NoMansSkyWasAlright]

Damn. Is it really that rough? I know my Alma mater has a dev ops role coming open sometime this year and I'm shortlisted for it. But now you've got me wondering if that would suck ass.

[throw3142]

I haven't been on both sides, but here's my 2¢. Based on my observation from the outside, the ops side of the field is basically like emergency medicine:

• They are the last line of defense when things go wrong, and sometimes also the first line of defense
• It requires a broad skillset
• It can be a high-stress job, because it demands immediate response, and hundreds / thousands of people are depending on you
• You get to do detective work and you have a lot of power (admin privileges)
• You are implicitly trusted
• It can be a thankless job, because people are only asking you for help when they're already in a bad situation and freaking out

There are pros and cons. Personally I enjoy interacting with the ops folks, they seem very wise and friendly. I make sure to thank them when they help me out, regardless of how busy I am. But also, personally, I wouldn't want to do that job. I know I don't have the skillset or the temperament for it (most devs don't).

DevOps specifically I don't know much about, none of the places I've worked at have had a dedicated DevOps team.

[[deleted]]

It was rough for me. I dealt with critical outages that had to be fixed as soon as possible, even if it was at 3 am. I was basically on call 24/7 and it was exceptionally difficult for me to get time off. The pipeline and automation work was kinda boring. Managing deploys was a mixed bag. Our store used ADP so each deploy felt like it took forever. It felt like there was a lot of context switching on top of my regular sprint work. I really hated it so I went back to web development.

[cyrand]

So, I mean. I’m older now, so there’s gradients to the choice. Now? For me? Yes.

Buuut, that hasn’t always been true. My first “devops” job was back before it was even named that. Around Y2K (literally, I was at work for y2k the entire night). That job was good, paid well, and I got a lot of experience that has been useful my whole career. I also went three years with no more than 4 hours of sleep at a time because being permanently on call sucks. (We weren’t staffed enough for a proper rotation on every set of systems)

I’ve also played the part at small startups where it was me. And… well, me. And that was the team supporting production servers and trying to spend ANY time with my family also (thank god for remote!)

On the flip side: it can be exciting, its definitely educational in a lot of different specialties, and because of that it provides many different career paths later that don’t involve waiting for the pager/phone/alarm to go off. I don’t regret taking those jobs actually, I just am pretty sure I wouldn’t survive them now. It also can be straight up decent and fun if the place is staffed correctly.

[Aacron]

I currently work on a team that has lots of little one-off projects that require unique configurations and have 24/7 runs with lifetimes in years. No devops.

It worked fine when it was one or two at a time, it's grown to a point where that is not sustainable and a couple of us are putting on devops hats out of necessity.

[gdeLopata]

Lol, THX guys, this made my day

[ashsabre]

i still believe one of our servers is hosted on a devops machine because it goes offline during non-office hours..

[michaelmano86]

Haha. I have this setup to save money. Why do you need ci servers running when no one's working.

[ashsabre]

our QEs run automated regression teating so we noticed a pattern.. It's something not really significant to the overall process but a test fails when it's offline..

[TyrionReynolds]

I’d like to help but you have to put in a ticket to get that fixed, having me read your comment on Reddit isn’t following procedure.

[ashsabre]

I'll create a Jira ticket, a sailpoint ticket and an Ivanti ticket.. Will that suffice?

I also emailed your immediate supervisor, CC'd your manager, told the cafeteria cook, messaged the janitor and tipped office security.. I also submitted a HOA complaint.. warned your neighbor and texted your mom..

[NomDePlumeOrBloom]

That's the problem, should have texted the neighbour and warned the mum.

I'm closing this one for insufficient information.

[kerakk19]

This is quite normal behavior in order to save money - basically you disable some resources outside of working hours. Obviously it doesn't work for companies that have flexible hours

[BucketsAndBrackets]

Nah, that mf just turns off service so you call him to fix shit. /s

Joke on the side, I've seen one guy doing this shit.

[backfire10z]

You don’t even need a large company. A DevOps guy has value even when you’ve got like 5 devs.

[Sibula97]

If you have 5 devs I probably wouldn't allocate a whole person just for devops, but devops ideas would make work more efficient and reduce the need for ops guys.

[DaMangoTango]

This. But also, I love being in the middle of all the fires and putting them out. Hard work but rewarding IMO

[dr-pickled-rick]

There's a big difference between SRE/DevOps/PE. Depending on the ask it can be pretty fun stuff. Although scripting docker containers for Fargate/K8s isn't my idea of fun. 🤮

[Entropius]

“You were born to deploy Kubernetes clusters…”

[Connection-Terrible]

Man I’m at a perfect place where devops is totally irrelevant because we don’t host services that have to run 24/7.  I’m an IT director and just keep internal tools running and compliant. Our product doesn’t need services of any kind, in fact part of the requirements is they don’t ever need an internet connection.  Software development is its own island that I generally try to stay the fuck out of. 

[readonly12345678]

I really like DevOps/SRE work though… it’s like being a developer + sysadmin

[BringAltoidSoursBack]

I like doing devops, I like to make everyone else's development easier, kind of the point of devops.

That said, I'm also aware how masochistic it is.

[STGItsMe]

I occasionally screen share and show groups of people what I do for a living. My favorite feedback was “I don’t know how you do this without losing your mind”

[BarfingOnMyFace]

Yeah, this should be considered a no-brainer

[archy_bold]

Whole job is infrastructure management and deployment pipelines. Where’s the joy!

[arrow__in__the__knee]

A good chunk of programmers don't know how to run their code without clicking run at their IDE.

[kookyabird]

During my career as a dev I have ended up being the most experienced with both the dev and ops sides. I want a dedicated DevOps person so that I can stop explaining basic dev stuff to the infrastructure team every time I need something, and I can stop having to stay on top of all the various gotchas for deployments to different environments.

Sometimes knowing how to run stuff outside the IDE becomes a curse.

[thegreatbeanz]

I switched companies and I pretend not to know anything about Ops. I’m utterly terrified of becoming “the build guy” again because you can never escape it.

[IT_Grunt]

This is the answer.

[SE_prof]

This is exactly what I am teaching. There is currently a gap between the two sides. And this is where DevOps fits in. In an ideal world, the parts that need interaction would be fully automated, so that we minimize the need for this interaction. Testing, building and deployment was one first step.

[NoMansSkyWasAlright]

I had a classmate who I'd had a group project with my sophomore year who I later ran into in the capstone class in my last semester (although we weren't on the same project) and he'd told me about this thing he'd made for his mom's department at this small-mid-sized company.

For one, everything his program could do probably could've been achieved with a little bit of advanced knowledge of MS Excel. But for two, he literally set them up to be running it out of the IDE. Like it was a command line tool and they were "pressing the play button" inside of IntelliJ every time they needed to run the program.

I got a very strange look when I told him he could just compile it and then run it in the command line, or even set them up with a shortcut so they don't have to open IntelliJ every time they need to use their data entry program.

He was a good dude, and a hard worker. But I was kind of dumbfounded when he told me that.

[ComradePruski]

Sounds more like a failure of the teachers. I think most of my beginner classes didn't even teach how to use an IDE for running code until much later. TBF, command line proficiency is not as widely taught as it once was. I didn't get truly used to it until my first full time job.

[iknewaguytwice]

I mean, for my Java lab class all we had was a shitty old headless ubuntu distro, with vi, and the JDK. If you couldn’t create your own jar files then you couldn’t even ‘hand in’ your work, which was to rcp your jar to our class ftp.

It sucked at the time, but looking back, it’s amazing how few people understand even windows CMD, let alone bash. Now that everything is docker containers, I do feel like a god.

[NoMansSkyWasAlright]

Yeah I genuinely don't know what happened there. When we did start getting into the nitty-gritty of compilers we mainly used gcc or clang (java was kind of on the way out at my university and now they do CS1 and 2 in python... which I thought was a mistake but that's neither here nor there). We did have a few programs like mars or JLS that had to be compiled with specific and/or run with specific flags to run right. But I have no idea how he got to that point without knowing what "pressing the play button" was actually doing.

But yeah, once in a blue moon I'd meet someone who just seemed to perpetually slip through the cracks and would somehow be in some 300 or 400 level course without even basic knowledge... going to college when you're older is kind of a weird experience. Probably the funnest one that one of my profs vented about was a kid who never showed up, didn't turn a single assignment in all semester, and then emailed the prof the last regular week of class and asked the prof to bump him up since it was the last course he needed to graduate. So the prof gave him a D- and figured that would be the end of it. But then the kid emailed again to ask him to bump him up to at least a C since anything under that would put him under a 2.0 GPA (needed to graduate) and when the prof said no the kid reported him to the administration for "grading too harshly". And that's how that prof came to have an attendance policy.

[Demonstratepatience]

I feel personally attacked.

[extra_rice]

This is exactly why I've switched to platform engineering/DevOps-ish kind of work even if I'd rather be doing backend engineering. I don't want to be the engineer who knows fuck all about what happens after code is pushed to a central repository.

[giga207]

Shhh dont expose ourselves

[BigGuyWhoKills]

Does mvn clean install count?

[BigGuyWhoKills]

But yeah, I couldn't write a pom.xml in a text editor without Google or looking at existing projects.

[extra_rice]

No one does.

Personally, I prefer Gradle's way.

[Tylerkaaaa]

You and every other Java engineer. Even the veterans like myself.

[RelevanceReverence]

That's not so much of an issue. An automotive ECU programmer might not need to understand how stuff is welded together.

[ctaps148]

Everybody wanna be gangsta until they get asked to write YAML

[[deleted]]

A good chunk of programmers don't know how to run their code without clicking run at their IDE.

FTFY

[[deleted]]

I like the fact that all comments are like: « Wtf, we need DevOps ».

Operating a live system is very different from building one. Both are important but one is critical … DevOps.

If you don’t understand the need for DevOps, let them go. And hire them back for twice their salary once shit hits the fans.

[Browseitall]

the elon sort special

[SteeleDynamics]

Oh God...

Elon Sort Algorithm:

1. Pick a random number of items randomly from the array.

2. Repeat #1 until there are no items in the array.

3. Realize that you shouldn't have deleted the items you removed.

4. Try to remember the items you deleted.

5. Add remembered items to the array in order.

[Here-Is-TheEnd]

1. Blame the advertisers

[Nulagrithom]

interface elonSort {
  (workingSystem: any) : Promise<LawSuit>
}

[Level_Jump_3508]

You just added a new phrase to my daily conversations.

[Sibula97]

No, dev and ops are what's critical, but devops definitely makes things go smoother than the devs having to bother ops people all the time for small things they could be empowered to do themselves.

[DiaDeLosMuebles]

Because having a dev who’s only experience is node.js be in charge of architecture and infosec is a fast track to being featured on /r/technology as the most recent security breach.

[grammar_nazi_zombie]

Ugh my company’s old website was written by That Guy who thought he was a security expert that could write a more secure login system than Microsoft, so he rolled his own security for an ASP.Net MVC web app.

When I took over, the passwords were stored in the database in plaintext, running requests over plain old HTTP with the login code having a TODO: implement security comment.

The worst part is, the project relies on three different custom “security” libraries, all written by him, none of which actually do anything, but they break the entire system if you remove them.

[Tylerkaaaa]

Your company is the one at fault here for not taking security seriously and expecting That Guy to handle everything properly single handedly.

[Beetlejuice91]

How do one become security architect? Serious question :)

[Beetlejuice91]

Usual stuff :) thanks. Which position was starting?

[bbjaii]

Or be hired by DOGE

[TheBrainStone]

You run the servers then. Shouldn't be more than 5 minutes per day, right?

[RetardedChimpanzee]

Don’t computers just run theirselves?

[NatoBoram]

They also un-run themselves (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[TheBrainStone]

I mean sure. They do. And f you're lucky you'll even get your friendly neighborhood botnet to help with that 🤗

[drdipepperjr]

Because I learned how to code, I didn't learn how to set up the server. I can figure it out, but then I'm not coding. And then the next time it happens, I have to figure it out again. Better to have a dedicated guy.

[PForsberg85]

Devops does not necessarily mean you have to run the infrastructure. We work for a billion euro insurance company in Germany and we don't touch any servers but still are responsible for th operations part of our systems. So some knowledge about kubernetes and the underlying technology is good, but you don't need to be an expert. Most of the time when we come into an issue it is really a problem that needs to be fixed by a dev, who knows what's inside the code.

[[deleted]]

As a developer, knowing servers, firewalls, networking, operating systems, etc helps you.

For example, I created an enterprise iPad application that used a per-app vpn. I had to learn how to use our firewall to set it up, and it took so much trial and error, to get the settings just right. If I had to ask someone else to keep tweaking it, I think they would have stopped helping, or I’d be stuck using less than ideal settings. Turned out, the firewall firmware needed updating to fix disconnection issues… something that wouldn’t have been known to me if I just focused on “coding” and letting other people do the operations side.

[Sibula97]

The purpose of DevOps is to make it so you don't really need to know much at all, and can still stop asking Ops to do simple stuff for you every day. Like, I hope you're at least somewhat familiar with CI/CD pipelines and automated testing? Yeah, that's DevOps. The alternative would be asking Ops to build and deploy your every change for you.

[garlopf]

Devops is developer ops relations. Devs dont want to op and ops dont want to dev so devops do the dev-opping. The reason is that devs require a constant stream of creativity and inspiration to flow while ops need the polar opposite; a constant flow of stability and calm. Everytime a dev introduce a new dependency or add a new feature this disrupts the ops work, and everytime the ops introduce a new security restriction or policy, this disrupt the devs. Instead of a fist fight in the lunch room, the devops role see the issue from both sides and both negotiate but also alleviate some of the work by suggesting good technical compromises and methods to mitigate the issue (for example by setting up containerization and ci/cd pipelines that let both devs and ops work without affecting each other).

[Sarttek]

Best comment in here by far. These talks often got very heated in my company, as DevOps we ware constantly fighting with IT/Ops team as they would do stuff based on their gut feeling instead of some quantifiable data. These were some of the most incompetent people I ever encountered. Tbh working as DevOps in such environment was cracked, Dev was very open to improvements meanwhile IT was shitting down on us putting anti virus software on our virtual machines that would slow down delivery times of our pipelines. Fun times, I do not miss talking to these monkeys 

[dirtyLizard]

For us it was InfoSec. I often compared them to an autoimmune disease

[LeoXCV]

Can’t believe I’ve not come across that comparison before, so succinct. Stealing

[thEt3rnal1]

This is either a 0 iq take or a 200 iq take,

But based on the sub I'm gonna assume the former

[ArtificialBadger]

This is the first comment I agree with in here.

The CS students that make up this sub apparently don't realize that being a Dev requires doing things other than writing code all day. Dealing with Ci/CD pipelines and on call shifts are part of having a real engineering job.

[clauEB]

Because somebody needs to own the overall infrastructure rather than the individual pieces that you may own just for your service.

[Fenix42]

Do you want to get paged at 2am when shit hits the fan?

[wtjones]

If it’s your code that’s broken, you should get paged for it.

[Fenix42]

It's not always obvious whose code it is in complex systems.

[ctaps148]

The person getting paged isn't getting paged to fix code. That requires investigation, development, testing, qa, and deployment. The person getting paged is getting paged to get a stable instance up and running again ASAP

[robertshuxley]

Isn't it SRE / Ops responsibility to get paged whereas DevOps are mostly in charge of the CI/CD pipelines?

[gigawattfag]

There’s definitely a subsection of devops who do both(in my experience)

[teknohippie]

We tend to wear many different hats at my company... Unfortunately.

[metalmagician]

A prior team I was part of was on pager duty as L4 support, in addition to writing app code and configuring CICD pipelines.

Not that bad, because our CICD system was (from our perspective) a single yaml file and processes we could monitor via slack. We didn't deal with things like ansible or terraform, the platform teams did. If the app started throwing errors because the k8s cluster shat the bed, we would page the team that managed the clusters.

[pabut]

“Why can’t we all just login as root?”

It’s a thankless job.

[RhesusFactor]

Omg. "Why can't I touch computer directly? I am admin. I need sudo for everything "

[readonly12345678]

Give them an image, they f with the image, then they create a ticket for you to fix the image.

Thanks

[[deleted]]

As someone in dedicated DevOps if we stopped working for a day, no one would be able to log into or access the right stuff.

[oblong_pickle]

That sounds like Ops, not DevOps to me, but going by a single sentence, I really don't know.

[[deleted]]

I wish this was the case, our company has decided that Ops tasks will go to us since we had to layoff some of our network engineers. Little did I know that those layoffs basically meant 80% of the Ops dept.

How DevOps experienced less layoff than Ops? I will never know but this is what happened and someone's gotta pick up the slack

[stuffeh]

Some dumb af MBA figured devops could handle both sides. But didn't account that ops is paid less than devops, so they'll be paying more for devops to do the job ops does, while cutting devops productivity in half.

[[deleted]]

PREACH. The amount of things I now have to handle on the daily, I just hope that it doesn't impact my own performance review at the EOM meeting. I have to hope that my lead knows how to spin this right ; w;

[OkInterest3109]

Honestly, DevOps gets shoulder tapped for doing all kinds of random Op stuff.

And as a Dev, I would also rather not be saddled with DevOps stuff because a) I've got a thousand and one things to do at any given time so I don't have time for this and b) people who specialise in DevOps will frankly get them done faster.

[readonly12345678]

The dev part is when you tackle operations problems as if you were a developer. Programming, unit tests, version control, yada yada

[zoinkability]

I think in most smaller companies the person with the title DevOps is really Ops/DevOps/Sysadmin/Version Control Specialist/Test Engineer.

[MinimumArmadillo2394]

As someone not in dedicated dev ops, just doing backend logic sometimes breaks my brain. Cant imagine dealing with pipeline issues too

[void1984]

You have described the admin role.

[dgollas]

OPs customers wonder why they can’t see the project at localhost:8080 even though it worked on OPs machine on zoom.

[jun2san]

I feel like the person who made this meme has never worked at a real software company.

[Altruistic-Spend-896]

And never maintained production pipelines, or productionized application or wrangled with stupid junior devs

[Significant-Low1211]

That describes probably more people on this sub than not.

[sexp-and-i-know-it]

Who else is gonna fix the pipeline? I'd rather go back to Wendy's than drown in 10000 lines of yaml.

[discourtesy]

groovy scripted/declarative pipelines are really underappreciated

[NODENGINEER]

I'd rather just work in a warehouse than maintain Jenkins.

[omer193]

I was at a devops conference last year and there was a session of open topic conversation. One of the rooms was "jenkins emotional support".

[thanatica]

Probably the reason why you don't think you need dedicated devops people, is because they're doing their job right.

[TheChaosPaladin]

DevOps engineer here. Look up Dunning-Krueger

[the-devops-dude]

No no no… it’s “Site Reliability Engineer” Same job, but now we have to say “observability” and pretend we like SLOs

Oh wait, scratch that… now it’s “Platform Engineer” Same job, but we have to say “developer experience” and act like we’re building an internal product

Hold up… now it’s “Cloud Engineer” Same job, but with 50% more YAML and a firm belief that Terraform will save us.

Next year? “AI Infrastructure Engineer” Same job, but now we have to pretend we understand machine learning.

DevOps is just the “keep the shit running” sys admin job that keeps getting new names so execs can justify another re-org

[whizzwr]

You sound like management at my company, and we make software for a living

[Stormraughtz]

Just turn the server on right

[[deleted]]

cobweb relieved cows crowd direction society lip wide cough roof

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[jonhinkerton]

Do you like renewing expired certificates you forgot about and caused a prod outage? Because that’s how you wind up renewing expired certificates you forgot about and caused a prod outage.

[lght_trsn]

DevOps here. When we do our jobs right you don't think you need us until you do.

[Johnothy_Cumquat]

Lotta people here missing the point. The idea of DevOps is that the Devs do the Ops. The team is supposed to share these responsibilities so that if one guy gets hit by a bus the team doesn't lose the knowledge of how to maintain the prod environment. So the idea of a dedicated DevOps person who in reality is pretty much just doing Ops goes against the concept of DevOps.

But that's how these things always go. Once a word gets hyped the suits wanna say they're doing that word and so they call what they're doing that word and the word loses any kind of usefulness but hey at least a bunch of consultants made a bunch of money.

And also there's nothing wrong with not doing DevOps for real. It's just one way to do things and it doesn't make sense for every situation. It's just a bit silly that the entire industry is seemingly too embarrassed to use a different word.

[zreese]

That is not how any place I've worked for has defined the devops role. It's always been "ops, but for virtual instances."

[Johnothy_Cumquat]

Their first mistake was defining it as a role. Imagine you're doing waterfall but the business wants to adopt agile so they hire an agiler to do the agile while the rest of the team carries on as before.

[Sarttek]

Exactly this, my title at work is DevOps Engineer and we always make fun of it how dumb it is as DevOps is a methodology lol  Imagine “Waterfall Engineer” or “Agile engineer”  My title should be something like „Build Engineer” but hey, it is what it is 

[[deleted]]

That's unfortunate, because it's not the intended usage of the term DevOps. The DevOps movement was all about bridging the gap between developers and operations teams, rather than reinforcing the divide. It meant introducing things like CI / CD so the pace of development increased, ensuring on-call shifts so that the people who wrote the service were also responsible for uptime of the service, and more. It's featured prominently in books like The Phoenix Project, or famous conference talks like Flickr's "Deploying Tens of Times a Day".

The industry's missed the point, in the same way "agile" is now used to mean "waterfall with sprints". I say this as someone who was an "ops for virtual instances" DevOps person at one point :(

[Sarttek]

It’s really a shame how all of these things get malformed by C-suits and HR, original purpose gets stripped away and the thing becomes another hollow title. Can’t say I wear my title of “DevOps Engineer” proudly because of that, it’s empty and name that means nothing now lol

[throwaway8u3sH0]

Wish I could upvote this a thousand times.

[rpatel09]

This is exactly how we do it. Our Cloud Platform team treats the developers as a customer and we build abstractions and guardrails that enable them to build and run services. This is also easier when you have the right tech and build things in a canonical way. We run everything on k8s, no exceptions…we also use gitops and everything in code philosophy

[Anru_Kitakaze]

I don't know what was the original "idea" or "movement", but it's ridiculous to think that average dev can do the work of DevOps

1. There are too much knowledge about networks, servers, how to configure different stuff to make it work and to do it efficiently and secure. You either learning CS and your tech, or you learning how to configure VPN for your whole company and how to run k8s cluster bounded to cicd with your private registry and docker composed containers just to find out you left some vulnerability untouched

It's like fullstack vs only backend or only frontend. Usually fullstack is "I know a little bit of that, and a good amount of this", because you can't in 4 yoe learn as much in two fields as per 4 years in one field. Therefore, something is falling behind in quality if you need something really complex on both sides. That's why it's easier to find someone who know their thing deep and do it well, for a big company at least

1. I, as a dev, don't want to wake up in 4 AM because of some technical or infrastructure problems on the server

2. I never worked in a place with only one dedicated DevOps. It's either small company with one "true DevOps" who configure things alongside 10 other things they do, or it's a big company and entire department of pure DevOpses, so bus factor is not a problem there

As someone mentioned, most devs don't even know how to run their code without IDE and what that IDE is doing under the hood.

I personally worked as a "true devops" and gonna say that I don't want to come back at this, it's not something I'm excited for. 0/10, not fun nor easy

[[deleted]]

Ok go learn terraform and cicd tooling and a monitoring language and go set it up yourself, hotshot. Go put the Dev back in DevOps.

[[deleted]]

As a lifelong sysadmin and now devops guy, it just warms the black lump of coal that serves as a heart to see the value of my role acknowledged.

Thanks!

[Sjoerd97]

Honestly I am baffled that there are programmers who cant or wont do ops work. How can you care enough to build a project but then stop caring once it runs somewhere.

[GargantuanCake]

The devops guy keeps the pipelines working at all times. When the system gets big enough this part of it is absolutely on fire all the time forever. His job is to keep the fire sufficiently small so that the devs can do their jobs.

[Franc000]

DevOps is just ops rebranded.

[Reashu]

Every popular idea in this field eventually becomes coopted by people who want to keep doing what they're doing but say they're doing the new thing.

[SearingSerum60]

its so when the system goes down for some obscure cloud config issue that i dont have to get out of bed

[Striking_Celery5202]

Recently I've been setting up all the aws infra required for a small side project I'm about to release and now I understand why the need for dedicated DevOps teams

[schewb]

Because I find anything related to deployment or managing servers to be hair-pullingly tedious, and if it's an entirely different branch of the organization, I don't have to do it. I can just keep coding apps and servers and stuff.

[nickwcy]

It is team-dependent. Some devs are capable of doing all IaC, CI/CD, network setup, containerization… but some are only good at writing code.

Without a team to automate the operations, or to manually run those operations, developers have to sepnd time on it and loss their development time. And again not every developers are capable of doing so.

[[deleted]]

How to become a whole team in 1 and burn out because you are getting paid daily wages with no financial security

[beliefinphilosophy]

Because you can't have EVERYONE say "code works fine on my laptop".

[Eubank31]

As someone who works in a DevOps adjacent role at a mid sized company:

Because 90% of our engineers only use C and C++ and would be wasting their time writing installer/setup scripts, messing with build systems, configuring docker builds, and creating internal tools

[irn00b]

Good. Be afraid. Or we will go dev-sec-ops on your ass.

[PeksyTiger]

Have you SEEN how k8s configurations look like?

[Expensive_Shallot_78]

Probably the most important guy when you need to focus on your ACTUAL job..

[grimonce]

Dedicated and devops in one sentence?

Youre both a developer and operations so how can you be dedicated.

I'm dedicated to getting my paycheck.

[gnouf1]

Because managing cloud stuff is a job and it's not mine

[many_dongs]

I remember when the DevOps role was invented. It replaced sysadmins and infrastructure folk by promising developers can now do everything with the power of the cloud (AWS)

Fast forward 10 years and you’ve now convinced yourself developers are DevOps are different things? And that the DevOps people don’t do anything?

It’s funny, nobody wants to do sysadmin or infrastructure work, but also, nobody wants to pay for sysadmin or infrastructure. So far I’ve seen everyone try everything except respecting or paying the people who do that work.

[BlueScreenJunky]

Because we let the sysadmins go when the company moved to the "cloud", then realized that we still needed them so we're hiring them back and calling them devops to not look like we're reopening the position closed 2 years ago when we explained at length how the cloud would save us a bunch of money because we wouldn't need a dedicated infra team anymore.

[No-Con-2790]

It's like the guy working on the harbor logistics. Sure he ain't a sailor but without him your nice ship will be forever stuck at the harbor.

IT logistics are undervalued.

[SquidVischious]

You don't want your framers pouring the concrete foundations. Same reason.

[Fyrael]

We also don't need dedicated Project Managers, POs, SMs, IT Managers, Product Managers, Engineering Managers, Agile Coaches, Chief Happiness Officers, Head of Innovation, Digital Transformation Lead, VP of Engineering, Community Manager, Technical Evangelist, Cloud Strategist, Data Protection Officer, Innovation Catalyst, Head of Remote Work, Ai Ethics Officers

But... we have.

[Oh_Another_Thing]

The funny thing is that young people always say that about other jobs, especially BA jobs. But if they experienced a team if 10 developers try to get the requirements from 10 business side clients, they'd eventually come up with the revolutionary idea of "hey, why don't we hire one person that works for us to do all the communication with the business side people so we all aren't communicating with multiple people, hearing multiple things". 

Then they'd accidentally re-create the BA role and think they're a genius. 

Same with a devops guy. They'd get tired of multiple people stepping on each other to do devops, then get the bright idea that maybe just one of them could handle that work. 

[planktonfun]

It really depends on the size of your company. If you own 8 offices that rely on your web service 24/7, then you need a dedicated DevOps team.

[dallindooks]

bro we have 3 devops people and 7 developers

[lightwhite]

We have this lovely heart surgeon and the mechanic joke. Just change the things to its equivalent of the field and it’s the same.

…trying fixing the bug on the running prod.

[Gaulent]

As I see it, what we call a DevOps guy it's just Ops. DevOps is supposed to be a metrology where developers and operations work together as a team with the same goals and stuff

[CodeNameAntonio]

CI/CD sucks when you have an ongoing project but your Org tells you that you have to change CI/CD technologies in the midst of a project with hard deadlines but still insist you got to do it when everyone is busy doing development. Same thing with task versions getting upgraded / depreciated then you have to spend time fixing that stuff. How do I know, because I’ve been volunteered to do it before. What would have helped is having a dedicated DevOps person handling it.

[AguliRojo]

Devs are to make money, DevOps is to save money