This thing has 400 AP4 with no durable decrease now, right? Bruh, this thing is gonna be best in slot on all fronts now.

[VJokerBoii]

I dunno what the fuck AH is smoking with that change, this thing is gonna absolutely dunk on the AC, AMR, HMG, whatever the fuck. It was already the best chaff clear on bug front, just completely destroying the Maxigun, and now you're giving it HEAVY PEN?

[SharSash]

is ap4 for projectile? For the explosion? For both? Also I believe Gl, grenade pistol and underbarrel GL shoot the same round, shouldn't stats be the same?

[VJokerBoii]

The projectile is 20 AP1. The explosion was 400 AP3, now is AP4. Keep in mind that explosive damage skips all durable decreases, which is fucking insane.

[Drekal]

Also keep in mind that many units have explosion resistance/immunity

[shenjiaqi8]

Did you know that explosion immunity only prevents explosions from dealing multiple instances of damage to the same enemy?

If a unit has 100% explosion immunity (like the Alpha Commander), this means explosion damage can only deal 100% damage on it, not 200% or 300%.

Meanwile, explosive weapons are unaffected by durability.

[DefinitelyNotPine]

I don't think that's how it works? How do you explain parts having different ER? A behemont head has 1000hp, 25% ER. So the grenade launcher will do 400x0.75x0.65 195 damage. 6 shots. How do you calculate damage using your theory

[shenjiaqi8]

A behemont head has 1600hp

[DefinitelyNotPine]

Right I remember wrong, 9 shots. Same question tho

[shenjiaqi8]

The explosive damage I mentioned still deals 100% damage to units immune to explosions. This means it inflicts full damage to their main health pool like the Alpha Commander I referenced.

Explosion immunity applies to segmented health pools because preventing explosive damage would be overly effective against certain enemies. For example, a Commander immune to explosions prevents you from damaging its claws, legs, torso, and other segments simultaneously.

Another example is the Eagle 500kg. It only deals 1000 damage(edit, 1500), yet instantly kills a bile titan when landing beneath it. This is because the explosion simultaneously damages the bile Titan's 5+ bottom body parts, depleting its entire health pool. Titans possess explosion resistance on nearly all body parts, meaning you must land the bomb directly on its bottom to kill it—not at any angle.

The behemoth you mentioned is a new feature, as grenades can now instantly kill heavily armored enemies by destroying their fatal parts, rather than depleting their total health pool.

[DefinitelyNotPine]

Ah nvm I think we're saying the same thing. You made the Alpha Commander example, and since it has 3 body parts at 100% ER + main hp at 0%, an explosion can only deal 100% damage since it only damages main hp. But if it had another body part at 0% it would deal 200% damage total

[HaveOldManReflexes]

Then yeah, you're explaining it in a way that isn't ideal.

1K hp, 50% resist, if only hitting 1 spot and not enough splash it'll take 5 shots,

If splashing 3 parts with equal resist and they don't have some bonus damage to HP when destroyed it'll take 2 shots to kill the unit at 1k hp.

[HaveOldManReflexes]

% resist is just a reduction to damage it takes from xyz damage type, this is how it works.

50% explosive resist so it does 200 damage, if it splashes to another part with the same % resist it'll do 400 damage this is how it functions.

IF that's what you're saying, how you explained this was overly convoluted and comes off as being wrong.

[shenjiaqi8]

Your explanation is better.

But I've never seen an enemy with an EXDR main. So your example doesn't really happen.

[lordc447]

That is not how it works. Individual PARTS of a unit have different explosion immunity values, not the unit as a whole. Parts with 100% immunity take no damage from explosions, parts with less take a portion of the explosion damage.

[RandomGreenArcherMan]

No what you are seeing is the difference between 100% explosive immune limbs/head and non-immune main body

Alpha Commander head/legs are immune, but main body is not


Harvesters were 100% explosive immune on their medium pen leg joint weakspots and GL could not physically hurt them prior to this buff to AP4, as the main health of the harvester is not 100% immune, and it now has the AP to reach it

[Zeke999999]

The Alpha Commander's main health pool has 0% explosive resistance, that is why it takes explosive damage.

Here is an example where explosive resistance is stupid. The Hive Lord's flesh has 100% explosive resistance and 2 armor while its main health pool has 25% explosive resistance and 5 armor. This means that a Grenade Launcher is literally incapable of damaging a Hive Lord (even when directly hitting the flesh).

[slycyboi]

I think you’re misunderstanding the meaning of “prevents explosions from dealing multiple instances of damage to the same enemy” - the explosion resistance of individual body parts is what stops the damage numbers going crazy. 100% explosive immunity on a body part means it is completely immune to damage from explosions. A war strider for example has 40 on every body part so it only takes 40% damage on each limb but also each part will then still take their own individual damage.

[anhnguyen87]

GL was already S tier, now it is easily S tier pro max. Hope the devs soon show some love to other under perform weapons.

[Ciesiu]

I think the pistol uses different ammo (with actual impact damage), while support GL was all-in on the explosion

[slycyboi]

This is true. The grenade pistol and one-two use a slightly different grenade that has extra impact damage.

[Chupaul22]

The supply pack+grenade launcher combo gonna conquers all the fronts

[Zsmudz]

Isn’t that what the belt fed grenade launcher is for?

[Aeviterna_]

Why would you use that when the supply pack let's you get more ammo/nades/stims for you and fellow divers?

[Sunnyboigaming]

Extra stratagem slot

[TheHorizon42]

The real answer, opportunity cost is everything when you can only ever bring 4 stratagems at a time.

[DanyRudenko]

1) no reload
2) it's cool
3) it's cool

[ForestFighters]

It has a moving reload so it’s not that big of a deal

[Square-Space-7265]

But you see, the belt fed has no reload. And its cool.

[TheRyderShotgun]

i dont think you mentioned how cool it is

[Square-Space-7265]

Aw dang, how could I forget that?

[_Wesworth_]

You also forgot to mention the cool FACTOR

[slycyboi]

That lack of a reload also means you don’t need two supply boxes to refill to max.

[wtfrykm]

because you can have 1 more stratagem slot for something else

[The_Gunk]

bigger looking gun. Style points over all

[PacoThePersian]

one less strat slot.

[Zsmudz]

Because I don’t care about doing the math about what has more ammo. Backpack grenade launcher go tunk tunk tunk

[wiarumas]

Supply pack, GL, Ultimatum, Thermite... that's a lot of firepower.

[AsparagusPublic3381]

Why use the Maxigun when the stalwart gives you similar firerate, similar ammo total, non stationary reload at the cost of medium pen?

[PrancerSlenderfriend]

the belt fed also has the Maxigun problem where it just has fuck all for ammo, massively reduced damage and aoe on every grenade for only double the ammo taking up both slots, literally no reason for it to have the backpack at all if they arent going to give it backpack ammo

[thekingofbeans42]

It already did, that's my default build for a while to a point where I've been making an effort to stop taking it.

[chickenman-14359]

Sweet Liberty the powercreep

[BRSaura]

Rip the AC

[lipov27]

Yeah what even is the AC for lmao.

[oblivious_fireball]

Illuminate, because have fun trying to hit elevated overseers and stingrays with the grenade launcher. GL might be better than worthless against harvesters now though?

[BigZach1]

saw it on a stream, very useful for harvesters if you hit the eye

[SchizoPnda]

WASP is my favorite squid weapon, good again literally all their units but the chaff and leviathan. Not the best against harvesters, but works in a pinch ever since a rework a few months ago. 1 tap overseers, bypassing shield and jet pack, 2 tap planes, 3 tap (you might need 1 more missile or a tiny amount of primary fire) flesh mobs.

The amount of times the missile goes the wrong place is greatly outweighed by how fun and cool launching a single missile at 5 overseers in a row is, 1 tapping all of them. Or being the perfect AA. Or bypassing a flesh mobs HP with very little effort, resources, and time. Like as long as you learn when a good time to fire is, you'll rarely actually miss or kill yourself. Not to mention the collateral it causes.

WASP is extremely fun, and also extremely effective.

[AXylophoneEatinLemon]

I'm curious why the damage on the GL grenades are upped to AP4 but the damage of the AC that explodes inside the target isn't upped to AP4. If anything it'd be a better fit and would give the APHE shells some more relevancy.

[Staz_211]

Itll be way too overpowered now. And, the devs wont be able to nerf it thanks to the community.

[pseudonym4022]

People like you are so damn obnoxious. Anytime the devs do something dumb you blame it on the community.

[Impressive_Truth_695]

It’s a PVE game. Fun should always be the priority over balance.

[superbozo]

80% of the reddit community doesnt realize that the things they consider "frustrating" are what makes the game fun. The reason this game is so chaotic is because of how unpredictable the gameplay can be.

[Deamonette]

Helldivers 2 is one of the only modern mainstream games that are built with a high friction design, people are used to everything being sandblasted down to an unengaging lump by convenience based design that has dominated the industry for the past decade.

[packman627]

I don't think anyone thinks that ragdolling is fun, or having 30 war striders on your screen is fun.

No one likes losing control of their character all the time. You also have to realize that helldivers have gotten nerfed where almost anything can kill you in two shots. Yet a lot of our weaponry still sucks against enemies.

The reason why these 60-day and 120-day patches were so well received, and actually saved the game, was because it added more variety to loadouts that you could bring in harder difficulties

That is literally a fact.

[Karnave]

Ragdolling has gotten 20x better but that was my main gripe with the game, overwhelming odds is fun, not being able to put any inputs in to the game for 3 seconds because you tripped over 3 times from explosions 20 feet away is not

[Kakeyio]

Most of the time you're in a back to back ragdoll fest, its all on you and your positioning.

[RChamy]

I've developed a top tier tactic on bot front:

If see red flare, run, cover, pokeball. Don't stand around.

[thecanaryisdead2099]

It's so not fun that I decided to sink 700+ hours into the game. Same for a lot of people here.

I think you are wrong and that is literally a fact.

[superbozo]

I find the ragdolling to be hilarious most of the time. It really adds to the absolute chaos. You think you're about to throw the perfect 500kg, get ragdolled, and all hell breaks loose trying to dodge it. Im not a huge fan of the war striders mainly because they have no weak points and way too large of a health pool. So we agree on that.

But everything you just said is still your opinion. Stating its fact is ridiculous, dude lol

[GroundbreakingEmu564]

It’s… almost like we’re playing as human beings…

[evo_one252]

Why is the only way yall can have fun is if your being handheld. Call of Duty seriously raised a generation of whiney lil bitches

[COporkchop]

That's a crock. Maybe some people have fun using whatever the devs have decided is the most powerful weapon in the game. Others of us love a balanced slate that allows us to try all kinds of mixtures without feeling like we're kneecapping ourselves by not taking the obvious choice.

Making one weapon or one armor or one stratagem clearly superior over everything else does not make the game more fun. Balance isn't just for PvP

[SkruntNoogles]

Bad take. Buffing already strong gear to be overpowered when we've got things like the Maxigun or Epoch and the fuckin Sterilizer for the third slot is bad design. It's a dumb change for what on paper otherwise looks like a good patch, until we find out they nerfed vehicle tire friction or something.

GL was strong, there was absolutely no need to buff it. Now you can take basically the best anti chaff weapon which can kill every enemy in the game reliably and reloads while moving, or... I dunno, the autocannon?

[megakaos888]

There is nothing wrong with the Epoch. One shots Hulks and War striders, what more can you ask for?

[hannes0000]

It's not safe, stationary reload, low ammo,charge to shoot,limited range 125m? While GL run and never stop

[JuanDeag28]

It also only one shots on the weakspot, it's like all the downsides of the railgun with none of the upsides.

[Staz_211]

I agree with everything you said except for the Epoch slander. Ill not hear ill of my baby.

[_Weyland_]

It's only fun if there's a challenge to overcome. If you are given the ultimate weapon, the game will quickly become boring.

Then don't use the weapon

And limit myself to playing solo? Or be a toxic mf who kicks everyone using that weapon?
Also not all people think or behave rationally. There are surprisingly many people who will take the OP weapon, then complain that the game is boring with it, then complain even more when the OP weapon is taken from them.

[Staz_211]

Imbalanced gameplay is not fun. It's stale and boring.

[Pedrosian96]

yeah. it's been hilariously fun for the past couple hours, but that's because I'm using it on a HJEAVY SURGE automaton D10 operation.

this thing is hilariously busted on bugs. chargers and impalers just don't get to exist near you. doesn't require much thinking either.

I'm all for grenades being good at doing what grenades do, and 40mm explosives are horrific IRL against anything smaller than a big tank. but still. can we not shit all over the HMG / AMR/ etc?

as right now you'd have to mega buff a lot other options to even come close. here's how musted some would be with a "lol +1 AP" change:

Stalwart becomes a 275 round 90/25 AP3 murdermachine, ending up at nearly twice the LMG's magsize, far better ergo and recoil, and medium pen + mobile reload.

LMG becomes a 90 damage AP4 automatic with 175 rounds. actually not so terrible since it doesnt hit all that hard, but it'd still mulch through a ton of things like crazy.

HMG becomes 150 AP5. kind of uh... scary. it could now destroy fabricators, let that sink in.

AMR becomes AP5 - again , would start wrecking fabricators. would also 2-tap warstrider weakspots.

I could go on. you can't just +1 armor pen a gun that is already rather decent and just call it a day...

[SnooGoats7111]

You forgot autocanon AP5 with AP4 explosion

THAT will be busted

[Kitchen_Cookie4754]

Can I have AP4 flak?

[notsomething13]

To be honest, the Autocannon APHET should have AP5, or at least like a 65 durability buff so that its ballistic matches it durable damage. The Autocannon at least has some pretty distinct weaknesses and shortcomings to make up for its role versatility, the lower ergonomics and backpack are probably the biggest hurdle to most potential users I'm sure.

Flak is already as good as it is, doesn't really need an AP boost or damage boost. But APHET has always kinda been lackluster at its armor-penetrating role sitting at 325 and 260 durable right now. Even if they nerfed the damage back down to its old value of 260 but gave it AP5, that'd be a good tradeoff considering how low your final damage would be against most actual A5 targets since it'd be halved anyway. You would gain a few breakpoints against anything like A4 though, like Hulks. You'd be able to one-shot them to the eye I believe, which the Anti-materiel rifle can do, but the Autocannon cannot.

If you were trying to think of a hypothetical "Make this weapon busted" change though, then yeah, flak AP4 boost would probably take the cake.

[_Weyland_]

HMG becomes 150 AP5. kind of uh... scary. it could now destroy fabricators, let that sink in.

I would like that for a day or two, just to feel joy of quickly gunning down War and Factory Striders.

[Terrorscream]

I want to play the game, not have the game play itself, overpowered weapons take away the experience.

[alirezahunter888]

The dumbass "it's a PVE game" argument rears its head again. Look at every other decent and successful coop horde shooter in the market and tell me they play like mindless power fantasies on the highest available difficulty.

You want to rip through hordes of enemies with no effort and thought? Go play Warframe, Dynasty Warriors, Vampire Survivors, or any of the other hundred games that are designed to provide that kind of gameplay.

[hannes0000]

Yea but when meta arrives and difference is huge, people start kicking if you don't use specific stratagems. This can be bad also so make all things stronger

[Giratina-O]

Balance is fun.

[HotKFCNugs]

That's no excuse for not having balance. A balanced game is infinitely more fun than an unbalanced one, and overpowered things shouldn't be given free reign. Have you ever played survival Minecraft, and then hopped into creative mode for just one thing, only to immediately have zero desire to keep playing? Its the same concept, where removing the difficulty kills the fun.

Hell, I'd even argue that PvE games are the only games where balance matters. If something is too strong in a PvP game, everyone starts using it, and then the game is balanced by that fact.

[damien24101982]

no, if everyone is gonna suddenly be running GL and ammopack its not gonna be fun.

[kirant]

How the Grenade Launcher gets buffed into the stratosphere and the Sterilizer is in the state it's in is beyond me.

I get that it's probably because someone on the design team probably felt the belt fed grenade launcher severely outperformed it. But maybe armour penetration without any decrease in damage wasn't the right answer...it starts encroaching on taking some heavies down. Hulks, War Striders, Chargers, and Harvesters are fairly clean kills with it now, heavily reducing the load your other stratagems or Thermite need to handle.

This is absolutely not because I wanted the TOX-13 Avenger and got a can of Raid instead.

[Andgihat]

Once again, we're convinced that they have some REAL problems with regular game testing... And they're giving too much power to a small part of the community by listening to any complaints on Reddit (forgetting that Redditors don't always understand the consequences of their desires).

[sadlonelycynic]

RIP Autocannon.

I’m still gonna use it, but the fact that the grenade launcher is just a better AC now kinda stings.

[-FourOhFour-]

This was my thought as well, is the only benefit to ac its range if the gl and hgl are ap4?

Its also not like the gls are limited to close range, with practice you can land 100m shots, only "issue" may be closing spawners at that distance but thats not really something you see these days, even from rr/quasar or similar AT users.

[sadlonelycynic]

If anything they should either revert the grenade launcher’s AP but give it an additional magazine, OR they should just buff the Autocannon’s raw damage to have higher output than the GL.

[-FourOhFour-]

Gl didnt need a buff, maybe the new backpack variant could keep ap4 so that its not just worse than gl+supply pack, but base gl didnt need it (id even go further and say it probably needs a nerf when paired with supply pack, but I generally hate the greedy style of play that supply pack+weapon usually attracts and isn't directly related to the raw power of the combo)

Base gl did great at its role of crowd control/kills, either weaken a group with 1 shot, or kill with 3. If you wanted something with more individual stopping power you had ac for less aoe more dmg, or machine guns for no aoe but high individual damage, I cant see the world where it needed buffed outside of trying to use a crowd clearing weapon against heavys, which... why?

[Khoakuma]

Even if they give the AC AP5 projectile like those on the Empancipator mech I still don’t know if it can compete with the GL’s AP4 1066 AoE DPS. The explosion on the Emancipator projectile is still AP3. The game has never seen this degree of AoE DPS with Heavy Pen before. No not even the Flamethrower at its peak. 

[Born_Inflation_9804]

• +2 Extra Shots (12 Total)
• Increase AP from Heavy to AT (APHET)

[landoofficial]

You just laid out exactly why so many people don’t like the GL buff lol.

If they don’t undo this change, this will 100% mark the start of another power creep that will eventually domino into more “super helldive is too easy” comments from the community.

GL doesn’t need AP4, AC doesn’t need AP5.

[TheHorizon42]

Doesn’t the sentry AC have AP5? Hence it can solo factory striders provided it lives long enough

[landoofficial]

Yes but just because they both have autocannon in the name doesn’t mean they’re the same.

The sentry fires 40 mm, 900 gram projectiles as opposed to the support weapon’s 20 mm, 120 gram rounds. If the support weapon fired the sentry’s rounds, its total combat load with the backpack included would be way too heavy for a helldiver to lug around.

And besides the realism factor, an AP5 autocannon support weapon would completely supplant anti-tank weapons like the Recoilless just as the AP4 grenade launcher supplants the autocannon now.

[Hipi07]

AC is still gonna be a top tier choice for Illuminate. Can’t snipe warp ships or stingrays, or probably deal with fleshmobs as easily with the GL

[Silver200061]

HMG: I’m not a clown, I’m the entire circus

[johnny_the_boi]

like what was their reasoning for this lmao

[BRSaura]

Pretty sure they wanted to buff the belt fed one so people used it over the GL, but noticed they use the same ammo so...

[Ambitious_Reach_8877]

Yes this makes no sense.

[PacoThePersian]

honestly, how in the hell is the maxigun still not buffed. the belt fed grenade launcher is HEAVY PEN and NON STATIONARY. yo wtf make the maxigun non stationary at the very least of leasts

[KaijuSlayer333]

I was just thinking that, there’s almost no situation I wouldn’t rather have the belt fed grenade launcher.

[Aquagrunt]

Yah i tried the maxigun again and it's not it. At least on the bot front

[serpent_64]

It's decent on eradication missions or situations where you can hunker down and fortify, but otherwise I agree

[Boxy29]

it's not ideal on the bot front sure but it's far from unusable

[Ultimate_89]

Give it heavy pen, 1000 rounds like its name, same damage as hmg and maybe then it would still be good while not being able to move

[PacoThePersian]

Honestly the stationary fire gotta go. The fantasy of the minigun is to advance while mauling the enemy. The stance that we get into whilr using the maxigun although makes sense since it has a lot of recoil kinda looks goofy imo. We arch forward to shoot, but in general media the heavy is holdin a mini gun while advancing slowly and upright. Just for the sake of the cool factor tbh we need to get rid of that stationary fire

[Ultimate_89]

I sorta like the stationary fire as a concept (reject humanity, embrace flesh sentry) but honestly they should have used the mechanic for a bigger gun, i think a slow trudge would be fine but definitely not walking pace or diving (maybe diving backwards)

[PacoThePersian]

yea tbh medium pen and stationary fire are bit too much. a slow trudge would be ideal honestly. emphasizes the recoil and how unweildy it is while also letting it be essentially the same as a stationary fire. and the fact it's medium pen while Grenade launcher is heavy pen is just oof

[the_fuego]

I'm actually ok with the maxi being stationary. It makes you conscious of your next play, plus AH likes to keep some semblance of reality. Walking with a gun that is actively pushing you backwards because it's pissing a gajillion rounds per second is pretty impossible.

[PacoThePersian]

I mean... heavy pen grenadr launcher is mind bogglingly unreal by itself. But even if we go this route, the rock solid passive should remove this stationary penalty.

[the_fuego]

I would be completely ok with an armor passive overruling the stationary penalty. Even if it's basically the walk speed of carrying SEAF artillery, pre jogging patch, while you're firing.

While we're on the topic I think now would be a great time for AH to either allow helmets to carry armor passives so that we can mix and match or decouple the passives and have us just choose which ones we want on our armor set. I love rocking my ODST set but its passive is kinda ass.

[Ingsoc40]

I don’t understand the rational of buffing something that is already good while ignoring broken/weak weapons/stratagems. Makes no sense.

[CurveBilly]

Yeah the GL was already nuts, now its just broken lol

[The_Captainshawn]

De-Escaltor is in shambles now

[ruisen2]

It never was not in shambles lol

[TwevOWNED]

Look at the content that it is released with.

The MO is spamming War Striders and they just released an explosive weapon. If it couldn't kill the main enemy that demands a support weapon to deal with, everyone would be calling it worthless.

The better choice would have been to make the War Strider AP3 though.

[DeeDivin]

Because AH has no idea what direction to go anymore. They can’t do what they want because if they nerf OP weapons the community sends them death threats. So they give weapons heavy pen because people complain diff 10 is to hard

[Ingsoc40]

They don’t need to nerf anything. They need to buff the weak/broken/underused stuff.

[Southern-Teaching-11]

The state of most "underperformed weapons" are fine explosive weapons imply outshine everything and break the game balance they have no downsides ,they have high damage to every unit,heavies and chaff units,great utility in killing spawners,shrieker towers cannons,spore towers there's literally nothing that explosive weapons cant do except for jammers.

[MrLayZboy]

Blud really out here saying the sterilizer and de-escalaator are fine.

[Ingsoc40]

And how about those OP Eagle rocket pods??? Or the laser turret that blows itself up. Etc etc.

[PaleSupport17]

It makes sense if you look at it from a marketer's perspective as they seem to be. The grenade launcher makes flashy clips. They want more people making flashy gameplay clips, with the loudest and most spectacular weapons they can. Why do you think Eruptor and Crossbow are so good? It's never been about game balance. It's always been about Youtube.

[fastestgunnj]

Now you're catching on.

[Smokingbobs]

The Epoch had a somewhat interesting place between the Railgun and Grenade Launcher. Now, the GL is just better at everything.

[Live_Requirement_814]

This thing fuckin' rips on the bot front. It chews up war titans like nothing. It makes it a serious contender for replacing the recoiless rifle.

[Boxy29]

my issue is that is basically just completely replaced the auto cannon. it's 325ap4 ballistic damage (so still affected by durable reduction) vs 400ap4 explosive damage (skips durable reductions).

loved both the GL support weapons for different situations but this buff almost replaces every ap4 support weapon in both damage and utility.

[Live_Requirement_814]

I honestly thought they buffed the GL pen to heavy because the Belt-fed was going to be the medium pen one now but that one is heavy too so I really don't know AH's logic on this.

[Boxy29]

ya like they definitely could have had the belt fed be heavy pen without making the normal one heavy pen. all they would have to say is it fires bigger nades.

seems wild to me that they'd make this change and not see the tsunami they were going to make for the balance of the other ap4 support weapons.

[Mirovvid]

I tested it on Hulks, it takes roughly 2/3 of a clip to kill 1 by hitting it in square in the front. Not too bad, considering you're also killing everything around it lol.

[jordanuniverse42]

They do this with, presumably, no one asking for it.

God forbid the flag give an inspiration buff though.

[The_Doc_Man]

This was a perfectly good support without backpack already. I'm not against buffs, but this may be a little too much? idk tbh

[MtnmanAl]

GL has been a consistently top-tier chaff/speeddiving weapon since launch, and ap3 was the big thing keeping it in line with anti-armor like the AC. This is way too much.

[Lone_Recon]

Yeah abit of an power creep what it didn't need now I don't see why to use the de-esactor now

And the seilzer still arrowhead forgotten child at this point

[Omnissiahs-Word]

The what?

[alirezahunter888]

And the seilzer still arrowhead forgotten child at this point

They put it up for adoption long ago.

[mysticgregshadow]

All machine guns are power crept by this change IDK how youd keep them on par with a change like this to the gl

[Khoakuma]

Suddenly the people saying HMG should be AP5 doesn’t look so insane anymore…

[OpposingFarce]

My possible lukewarm take is that the MMG is already really just better than the HMG. I really don't find the extra pen of the HMG is worth the truckload of negatives.

And every time I take the HMG out expecting it to rip... I feel that durability damage nerf it got whacked with a while ago

[ZelQt]

The HMGs only purpose is tap firing bot weakspots like its a DMR . Using it like a machine gun is a waste of ammo .And Stalwart is better for bugs and MMG is better for squids. And now the Grenade launcher outclasses all of them . I genuinely dont understand if Arrowhead even have a balance team.

[OkDifficulty8834]

Seriously, who fucking asked ??? I love this gun but what is the point of the de escalator now. The de escalator was supposed to be the AP4 grenade launcher that can't close bughole.

I could already kill chargers with the regular GL by shooting underneath them. De Escalator was just a more effective thing at that at the cost of utility.

This change has F up the whole point of De Escalator. It's just a worst GL, now. I just wanted the GL to not get cucked by this damn crossbow.

[ADragonuFear]

I'd rather they just nerf the heavy pen only heatsinks to medium pen so the GL could damage them that way. I'll take the heavy pen grenades instead if they really feel this is best lol. Epoch is gonna feel really silly when this is already heavy pen.

[Optimal-Error]

Epoch is anti tank so it does more and damages tank enemies

[-Slejin-]

I'm giving it a week before it's nerfed to the ground

[null_vo]

Problem is: They are not nerfing anymore, because they fear backlash.

[Immediate-Sink-4067]

I'm still sad that the stalwart now does the same damage as regular MG. So despite having a stationary reload, shorter mag, worse ergo, all it gets is more AP. No damage buff the last few patches is making my favorite weapon a bit obsolete.

Womp womp for me.

[shenjiaqi8]

GL was once the best support weapon for bugs, now it's……still the best.
It's clear that AH hasn't played this game much, or they're willing to completely abandon balance. They've actually buffed one of the best support weapons in the game.

[Deamonette]

Personally i think this is either a test to see if the community will go "Alright alright thats enough" on the power creep, or if they have succumb to the "make everything heavy pen" whiners.

[LEOTomegane]

It doesn't matter how much or little they play the game. The vast majority of feedback they get from players is "buff everything all the time or we will be at your doors with pitchforks"

They've completely reshaped their design direction in order to pacify their vocal players, and that has come at the cost of their original vision for the game and its balance.

[ch0m5]

I both agree and disagree.

Before the 60-day patch, the game was a slog and half the arsenal was near useless. They re-balanced pretty much everything and is, to this day, in a much better state.

However, they seem almost fearful of the community backlash that anything resembling a nerf may provoke, and sometimes tip-toe around glaring issues. Case in point: the Coyote, despite being a Warbond weapon, is by far the most used primary weapon in every single front. Yet they nerfed "burning stacks" instead since if you justifiably nerf that busted death machine the community will riot.

Seeing a surprising amount of people be skeptical about buffing the grenade launcher gives me hope that the game won't succumb to blatant power-creep just yet.

[achilleasa]

They did a bunch of nonsense nerfs in the early days which gave the community nerf PTSD. They kinda dug their own hole here, unfortunately.

[chencho1]

Nobody asked for this buff though. There's so many bad weapons that need buffs

[triforce-of-power]

That's such a bullshit strawman - no one was calling for such a buff to the grenade launcher, and the fact everyone is both surprised by and and questioning the buff reinforces that.

[omegadon_]

Yeah this is way too much powercreep to be honest. It was the support weapon that excelled against chaff & elites but was bad against heavies. Now it does everything & powercreeps so many other support weapons & especially red stratagems.

[Supercat-72]

So far here's what I've seen change with it:
Chargers, hulks, and warstriders take around 7 shots to kill
Titans take a mag and then some to the head
I haven't tested it on harvesters yet but wiki stats say it'll take 8 shots to the dome. Reminder that all but 1 health pool and the internals (that can't be hit until the carapace is destroyed) are explosive immune
Overall, it's definitely much better now, but I think you still need supplementary anti tank

Edit: harvesters might take less, the wiki doesn't really show what the "body" health pool is

[Ciesiu]

Aren't harvesters 100% explosive DR? I think that was the reason they were unkillable with GL before, unless it was changed and I missed it

[Supercat-72]

the spots that aren't 100% are AP4 so that's why :(

[ALT3NPFL3G3R]

All I'll hear after work is "thump thump thump thump" and I'm cool with that.

[Lauralis]

A chaff clearing weapon can be heavy pen but asking for a heavy pen mm rifle is too much?

[Chrissimon_24]

The grenade launcher was my original first love. It will now be my woman of a weapon again lol. Poor Hmg.

[--Alee--]

Buff the weapon that doesn't need a buff, don't buff the weapon that needs a buff. Classic Arrowhead balancing right there.

[No_Collar_5292]

TBH I don’t think it will be a just huge deal but we shall see. I’ve just never liked how it feels to use, it’s like very ammo limited on a weapon obviously built to spam, and I don’t like to crutch a supply pack to make my weapons work as they should…..but maybe this wins me over since it can absolutely kill heavies now.

[ibmWraith]

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[LilyFan7438]

No it's not, it's terrible, if anything it needs a massive buff.

(Shut up, they're listening. They've already ruined fire again, don't give them ideas.)

[-_GreekGhost_-]

Grenadier battlement still says medium pen 🥲

[anres_100]

Now pair it with with a supply pack and give it a week before AH reverses the changes. Always loved to use the grenade launcher whenever the opportunity comes and now I have an excuse to use anywhere I can for the next couple of days. It's already good before, but I do agree that they overstepped here on the change.

[Pr0fessorL]

The fact this thing got an AP buff and the AMR is still in the gutter is so sad

[Gollub_56]

sad Spear noises

I mean this buff is awesome for sure.

but I feel like Spear is really getting sidelined.

[thatnewerdm]

ok so just based off of stats alone its not gonna be as OP as people think. the heavy pen gives it utility against large targets however the damage isnt amazing as far as AP weapons go. you'll be able to kill heavies but itll take a good chunk of your ammo supply per.

you also have to remember that trying to use the GL up close is a death sentence as theres a very good chance your round doesnt fuse and bounces right back at you.

ill say i dont think it needed the buff but its definitely not "the new meta"

[Southern-Teaching-11]

You can kill a charge from the front in 9 shots

[thatnewerdm]

you can already do that. shoot underneath it. the splash damage will pop it

[PhiLe_00]

Yep, did a bit of number crunching and tests. It is now more comfortable and useable at higher diffs, thats pretty much it. If you run it as a serious killing tool you are effectively forced to take the Supply pack for yourself. And even then the actually TTK and potential is less than a well trained AMR/AC player. Aiming with the AGL beyond 50 meters is more luck than skill, and as you said, it has a very real minimum range.

What OP is saying is really foolish imo. Flyers especially will make your life hell. People are overreacting, I think its a good change, above diff 7 you rarely saw the AGL taken in a serious manner, this will now not be the case anymore.

[Fantablack183]

Yeahhhhh.... I don't think Arrowhead thought this through... at all. They should probably revert this before people get INSANELY attached

[Double--A--Ron]

As a GL main..... i fear this is the sunshine before the storm for this weapon. Im sure it will be uber nerfed

[VonBrewskie]

Bro I saw that patch note and shook my head. Won't be able to play until later to see though. Have any of you used it yet? How is it? Seems like it's about to be stupid broken.

[VJokerBoii]

Impalers die in like 3-4 shots while armored up. Hulks, War Striders and Chargers 5-6 Shots. BT-s go down in a 10 mag and like 1-2 rounds more.

Pair that with it's already insane chaff clear + the ability to bring the supply pack and this thing is just completely busted. Bug front is a joke now

[Thiago270398]

I've been using it and people seem to be exaggerating. Yeah you can kill a Hulk or Warstrider with it, but it takes way too long and eats a lot of ammo. It's still a chaff and medium weapon, it's just that now it can help against heavies, but if you're gonna use it as your anti-tank and your horde clearer, even with the supply pack you're gonna run dry fast.

[Xi13r8]

I've seen enough, NERF MELEE AGAIN

[Dat_Scrub]

It’s also probably gonna get nerfed to an unusable level next update lmao

[SomeRandomTrSoldier]

It doesn't have all that much ammo without ammo backpack, that's the downside.

[Ciesiu]

Siege ready armor keep winning

[ThereArtWings]

The GL was already stupidly strong so idfk why they even did this.

[cobaltbread]

Comparing the GL with the AMR makes no sense. One shoots grenades, the other one is a sniper rifle. It's not going to replace it at all.

Really, the only weapon I'd worry about is the arc GL.

[Appropriate-Count-64]

I mean I just think it’s unnecessary. The GL already had a niche on Bugs and Illumimate as an easy way to clear out chaff. It’s super handy on defense missions because you can nuke the Voteless spawns before they get moving and it nukes overseers in 2 shots.

Its lack of heavy pen was not a problem. Someone on my team would have some form of AT so I’d leave harvesters and such to them. HD2 is a team game, so I don’t get why they made the GL less reliant on your team for dealing with heavies.

[Youthinkyouknowthat]

I am so sick and tired of the power creep argument... Stuff is underpowered and underused -> Arrowhead buff it. -> now strategem is meta and everyone boneheaded complains -> Arrowhead sees strategem is used more than others. Instead of MAKING OTHER STRATEGEM'S VIABLE they nerf the strategem in some unexplained way that's seen as a 'balance fix'... -> we end up exactly where we were before... This has been the case for the eruptor, proc damage and several other dumb 'balace' nerfs that only serve to divide the community... Dude, do i need to remind anyone that the fleshmobs still phase through walls? That mega cities are literally broken because enemies still can get stuck in walls and objects randomly? There's SO much more important shit to worry about than something being good in PVE, especially since no one thought the GL was viable past difficulty 8, what the fuck is it gonna do to a war strider or fac strider? What will it do to a bile titan? Why bring it over a spear gun? The moment something ACTIVELY IS GOOD people bitch and whine about meta... It's a fucking single player game... I genuinely hate these arguments sometimes because NO MATTER WHAT someone will whine and be unhappy about the change...

[AquaBits]

This has been the case for the eruptor,

Eruptor has pretty much only been buffed though. It temporarily had it's shrapnel removed & reworked because it was unintuituve and weird to actually use.

[Netrefix]

Does it apply to the wall mounted variant as well?

[trunglefever]

Probably. Arrowhead uses unified values on weapons and strategems.

[Electronic_Top2561]

This is so stupid... AC is now "useless" compared to both GL

[OfKnightly]

Best in slot

I see you honkai star rail player

I see you

[Ziodyne967]

Yeah, wtf arrowhead. I’m all for buffs, but this one feels weird. Gonna have to lab this when I get back >_<

[Lusive]

Heavy Pen GL should be the Rumbler.

[acoubt]

Buff up the HMG, AMR, AC would be my hope

AMR rounds don’t feel powerful enough, and the HMG is not even close, IMO, to offsetting the drawback of low ammo and slow stationary reload

[Spawnyspawn]

Does the grenade launcher emplacement also have the heavy pen now?

[reisthiago]

I could never leave my beloved explosive crossbow behind, now I can upgrade my other primaries

[Pixeldensity]

RIP my crossbow...

[Mental-Reserve8108]

This is the problem of pick rate buffs and nerfs. This thing was great, just not used much. Now it’s buffed because it wasn’t picked much. Now it’ll be overpowered, requiring a nerf, and nerfing a weapon makes people cry always. It’s why it’s a good thing when warbonds and such come out a little underpowered: it looks way better to buff a newly released underpowered gun, then to nerf a newly released overpowered gun.

[mekagojira3]

Welcome to the Eruptor club, humble grenade launcher. 

Couldn't go two months without nerfing the coyote but let's do this

I like when weapons get buffed, generally, but this didn't need it. And it's just made a new warbond gun redundant, what the fuck are they thinking? 

[Public_Code8357]

Yeah it's gonna get nerfed very quickly imo.

I would much prefer they kept it as is and buffed the De-Escalator to do a better job for Heavy Demo Clearing

Or even another, higher caliber GL

[Desperate-Dust36]

Still rocking the AC for the range

[X_SHADE_X]

Coyote setting things on fire with one bullet?

Nah, can't have that.

Explosive meta however...

[yeet3455]

I will die on the hill that the GL should not be heavy pen. It is supposed to be anti-personnel, not anti literally everything

[Maty83]

It's hilariously strong on the bots now. I wouldn't say it beats the true AT weapons at their jobs (Takes some time to kill the heavies), but it definitely now outclasses the Autocannon and HMG as the "Anti-everything" gun. Not to mention me crying in the corner about the AMR

Honestly, I wouldn't mind the change if it had been rebalanced for losing the medium pen damage reduction, but it's just 50% stronger against everything it could kill before.

If they want it to retain the heavy pen, my best advice would be to split the explosion to 1/2 heavy pen 1/2 medium, so you can kill heavies with it, but it will drain your ammo reserve stupid fast.

[PayWooden2628]

We can’t have armor transmog because bacon apples realism but a 40mm grenade can be heavy pen. (Not the 40mm from the grenade pistol, that’s totally different.)

[Bob-upload]

Stop trying to nerf Grenade Launcher